Education System of Malaysia

[chenchow]

Guess this will be a hot topic... What do you guys have to say on this topic?

[Schye]

I think this will be a bit too general for us to discuss about.

How about the quality of grades in SPM ?
Compare the SPM a few year back with SPM recently.The quality has obvioudly dropped.Straight A1 has nearly become a must for those who want to get a scholarship.I am not sure if the education minister will have a better image if the graph of hte result improve but the exam is becoming easier and easier.
Many has been chasing over the quantity and not quality nowadays...

Any opinions?

[royston]

Actually I don't qualified to speak in this topic as my SPM teruk lah... :oops:

But I realized that, the grading criteria for A1, A2 and C3 has been dropped. The passing mark to get an A1 now, can only get about C3 or C4 back in 1997 ...

One of the most obvious subject is Math. I saw my god-brothers' textbook, oh god!! like that oso can ah?

I may not say that the education department purposely drop the level of difficulties in order to get higher passing grade, but if this is real, the consequences will not be pretty. This will only lower down the competency for all the students.

What do you guys think?

~ roy ~

[eeyore]

yeah this is a really general topic. i agree with you guys that the grading scheme has been lowered drastically over the years. here are a few thoughts of mine regarding the education system.

1) i think the education system makes us good exam takers but not good thinkers. i mean, we place so much emphasis on exams and grades that students are sometimes forced to study for the grades, we learn all those skima permakahan so we can score in exams although they do not understand everything that is taught. when studying, we also target or predict which questions will be asked and study those topics. sometimes people become parrots and memorize stuff, why? because even the exam questions dont train us to think, they are questions directly from the book, so people just memorize stuff and sooner or later, what they learn will be tested. there's a lack of the question "why this and why that" when people study sometimes. i mean, there's nothing really bad about all the above, but my point is we are creating a nation who knows the tips for getting good grades. but are we emphasizing enough on knowledge as a whole? can we come up with world class researchers and people in acadamia with our present educations system?

2) we are guinea pigs!! each time the education ministry wants to implement something new (most of the time not necessary or vital, sometimes an even worse system) we students have to suffer. now i think the whole system is a big mess.

3) moral?
what on earth is pendidikan moral all about somebody please tell me. you don't learn anything useful. it's not even about learning what is best to do in certain situations. it's about memorizing word for word two pages of good moral values, and regurtitating them in a right context. and jeez, you must also know how to word your sentences, you must have the right value, the right sub value and then examples, something like that. what the hell is this?

4) double standards
this may be a touchy subject. but i'm not referring to meritocracy or anything like that. but my point instead is something more simple like this. 2 years ago, my friend took the spm in melaka and the whole center (pusat) was not allowed to bring in scientific calculator at all. but that same exact year, i also know another few friends in the kl area who actually are allowed to bring in scientific calculator. sooo ..... is there no specifics on this? i mean im sure there are guidelines and rules of what you can or cannot bring in to the exam hall. so, why the disparity? here students are trying to hard to do well, the last thing they need is for an unfair system to go against them, i mean think about all the hard work the students put in for years.

there's more than im not thinking of right now. but as the forum develops i may add my $0.02

[chenchow]

I remember back in schools when there are KDKK (or something like that) in our History, BM comprehension questions that test us these skills, where we need to think to write the answers. how do you guys think about that? Is it useful? Is it the right way? What is its effectiveness?

For those who are studying overseas, or interacting with students from other countries, what do you think of the standard of our SPM?

Personally, I think our mathematics, and sciences syllabus is not inferior to other countries... Say, Mathematics, in Singapore O Level (equivalent to SPM), probability was not even taught at basic level. For Physics , momentum was not taught, they also do not learn logic gate in SPM... For biology, I know that SPM students learn way more than O Level, as I know some of my friends who took A Level in Biology in Singapore, spend the first few months learning those stuff that most of it, they have learned in SPM...

Anyone has anything to share?

[eeyore]

i think it's KBKK (kemahiran berfikir secara kritis dan kreatif) .. i dont even realized there was a difference, the questions seemed the same ... the material taught wasn't different ...

[littlebigone]

All i can say is I hate moral :(

And i think SPM is a joke. It's really ridiculous. People are really impressed when I tell them that students in Malaysia have to take so many subjects, but i think the quality of each subject is really poor. I think it would have been better to allow for more concentration in certain subjects. Rite now, I;m not really impressed when I hear someone getting 13 A1's.


Also, to illustrate how much importance SPM puts on memorizing and regurgitating, I know someone who didn't learn anything in Sejarah, and only started reading the books for Form 4 and Form 5 in the last 2 weeks before spm and still got an A1. Oh, of course he also had the opportunity to look at the schema for grades and could also apply some analysis to spot the questions for that year.

[eeyore]

i feel that the education system also makes me less opiniated and to just accept many of the facts without questioning why. therefore, when i had to do the toefl exam, there were many questions asking you things like do u like to live in a city or in a suburban area? do u like cakes or cookies? you know simple questions like that but then you got to explain why. and then i realized how unopiniated i was and how i didn't really learn to make choices and to justify them.

[silverblue]

3) moral?
what on earth is pendidikan moral all about somebody please tell me. you don't learn anything useful. it's not even about learning what is best to do in certain situations. it's about memorizing word for word two pages of good moral values, and regurtitating them in a right context. and jeez, you must also know how to word your sentences, you must have the right value, the right sub value and then examples, something like that. what the hell is this?


Wasn't there a newspaper article a while ago that said that PENDIDIKAN MORAL will soon be replaced by a new subject that has to do with learning the various cultures in Malaysia... I am quite sure the government has made plans to scrap it already (phew!).. If someone can find that article again, please post it here... thanks! :)

[soul_out]

In life, you will learn a lot of useless things.

[royston]

3) moral?
what on earth is pendidikan moral all about somebody please tell me. you don't learn anything useful. it's not even about learning what is best to do in certain situations. it's about memorizing word for word two pages of good moral values, and regurtitating them in a right context. and jeez, you must also know how to word your sentences, you must have the right value, the right sub value and then examples, something like that. what the hell is this?


In fact, when I was still in secondary school or even after my SPM, I HATE MORAL because I tried to study it "smartly" which understand all the points and facts, during the exams I tried to use my own language to phrase it out... DAMN IT!!! I FAILED !!! Why? Because "saya" I put "aku", "ini" I put "itu" and so on... gosh!!!

After few years, I have taken up my dip course, until the third year, suddenly our college (PSDC) told us that there are 3 matapelajaran wajib that we MUST take, which are Pengajian Malaysia, Sejarah and Pendidikan MORAL !!! My nightmare came back... But this round I tried to memorize all the 13 or 15 nilai moral, do you know that not only 13 nilai, each nilai got a lot of sub-nilai ... haha!! anyway, for the 3 subject I have my own "skill" to pass through, which is "cheating" ... :P

But one thing I can't agree with you all that Moral is useless. No doubt keep memorizing all those words is really like a moron but when you match your daily life with what had stated down there, it is useful. I am not sure anyone of you can understand what I am trying to say. When I realized and matched 1 or 2 of the nilai, I tried to find the book (don't know where I have threw... :oops: ) and traced the rest of the nilai. Believe me or not, sometimes working or surviving in this world, you are like playing the Battling Skills with the rest.

I will try to start another topic soon to talk about this, it is kinda interesting, something like Bible said, when ppl slapped your left face, let them slap the right side too (so that the pain can be balanced... haha!! :P ), it is talking about skills on how to deal and "play" with ppl.

~ roy ~

[theT]

KBKK is a crap.
i still remember when i was in form 3 . there was this kbkk question in sejarah test we were having. it goes something like " what do u think of this and this". and there were 4 multiple choice answer. and only one right answer. holy crap. the question shouldn't be "how do you think" coz it is not wht we think but wht the text book says.

and the malaysian education wont let us think outside the box. not even let us think in the opposite view.the teachers have these kind of un open minded mentality. back in school, i was always been condamed by teachers coz i always give a negetive remarks. but all i did was look from different angle. for eg. i used to say the reason there are so many "warga tua" in old folks home is because they never treat their children well when they need them. like the parents might abandoned or abused the children so now the children just gonna send the parents in the old folk homes. but i got C for my content for tht essay coz its irrelevant.other times include when i support the equal treatment for gay and lesbian.the teachers say i was immoralized.and lots of thing. in the end. i just follow wht they want. i didnt argue anymore when i was in form 5. i just get along with them. and now , i find it hard to have that inquisitive mind i used to have. i gave up tht mind for SPM.

not only the education system should be changed, but also the mentality of the teachers. they should encourage the student to explore the world.

[CrAzyCow]

Over the years the standard of SPM has dropped dramatically. If u get A1 now it might be equivalent to C3 or C4 in the previous years. The education system has lost it's focus on educating students. It should not just pass students tht are not doin well. Have them repeat the level until they succeed to get passing grades. If we are goin to lower the standard just for the sake of having more ppl to pass papers, why do we even bother to hav exams . Just pass all them!

So i think the education system should stop being so lenient and soft towards students as the current way we are doin is not helping students but is actually paving way to a more difficult road in the future.

Speaking of Moral studies, i think is a waste of time n shud be removed from the syllabus. U dun need to memorize moral values in order to practice them. Is just ridiculuos tht u just hav to memorize n spill it out during exam.

[theT]

i think the spm standard is really low. especially for science subjects like physics.

i got 3B for my physics when i didnt answer half of it.

i should have fail or at leat got C.but no, i got B3.at least lotsa ppl are fooled by my grade. thinking tht i am 3B kind of person.

i love my spm grade. i didnt do well like other ppl. but spm was my 1st time to get A for most of my subjects.

for eg:

bahasa i got A1 when the highest i got in class was 4B
english (1A)- usually i got 2A or 3B
history (1A)- the only grade tht actually parallel to my grade in class
agama (1A)- usually i got 4B or lower and very seldom i got 3B
chemistry(2A)- i always strugling in class to even get C for this class
math(2A)- i always got C and lower only during trial i got 4B
biology(2A)- i never get more than C in this class, usually D
physics(3B)- lets not talk bout this class, i failed or the best was C
add math (3B)-this is the worst subject, i used to get like 38/100 for this class.

see the difference. i dont think i can be smart in one day.and i dont think anything i learned in school is useful now. i dont even remember any of it. i left everything in the spm exam hall.

ps:i dont wanna brag bout my not so good grade. i just wanna prove my point tht the marking scheme for spm is really low.i'm sorry u think tht i wanna show off with my spm grade.its never my intention.but i'm actually impressed by it myself :P

[wwhong]

Seriously, P.Moral is a crap subject and it did nothing other than wasting our time and brain cells. What the use of memorizing all those stupid values and sub values? DO you think it will change a person by studying all those stupid values? Good personality is culminated through personal action and attitude and by just sitting in a classroom and studying all those "situation" won't do anything.

Rather than P.Moral, I would suggest a social study which deal with social problems and discuss how youth like us can help in solving those problems,etc. This way makes us think and at the same time achieve the motive of culminating good personality. This is so much better than memorizing those values as it portrays to the students of what actually happening and what value we can learn from that to prevent similar thing happend in the future.

I think the root problem of Malaysian education system is that it is driven by politician and not educators and most of the teachers are not enthusiatic in teaching. For eg, I have a high school teacher who kept saying to us that next time don't try to be a teacher, how sucks a teacher is, blah blah blah. He really discouraged few of my friends who want to be teachers and who I think will be good teacher.

I really think we need to reconstruct our education system if Vision 2020 is still in our mind. With the current system, I don't think we will go far.

[littlebigone]

okay, we;ve heard that the education system is crap blah blah blah. HOw about we start with the constructive part of our criticism ;). What would you like to see implemented in the education system to make it better.

for me personally, I think that we should encourage more thinking amongst the younger generation. I think that we should not stifle the creativeness of the younger kids. You know how funny we think kids are when we watch "Kids say the darndest htings" or something like that. Well, I that those kids are encouraged to come up with their ideas and it will probably be beneficial for them in the future. In class, I would recommend that instead of just reading some story to a standard one class, maybe 15 minutes could be spent to go through the story critically, guided of course by the teacher. For example, if we were reading a tale on Hang Tuah, maybe the teacher could ask questions like, Do you think you would have done the same thing if you were in Hang Tuah's place, do you think the keris Taming Sari really exists, or maybe even, who was right, Tuah or Jebat in going against the Sultan.

I believe that these questions would raise interesting answers and if we follow up in suit with such teaching methods in the higher level, we will generate a more thinking Malaysian society. It all has to start at the bottom.

[eeyore]

yeah, i think that we have to start right from the basic. students are exposed to the formal education system since std 1 and i think this is the best place to start. we want students to think critically, so from early age, we train them to think widely (not just in the box). then maybe when they get older, teachers can help them get engaged in more serious issues that require more thought, like current issues and the students' opinions, social issues, etc. so i say, a good way to do this is to actually have discussions. have students explain what they think, their opinions, what they feel etc. and then the teacher must be open and not just say once answer is right or wrong. but in the end, the teacher should sort of summarize all the students' answers and tie it all up. this way the students learn how to express themselves, to form logical opinions, to respect other's opinions too, and to understand more complex thought processes.

[__earth]

I seriously believe talking about low grades, the difficulties of courses and the such are shallowly related to education issue.
The crux of the issue, I believe is integration. There should not be any school dedicated to a race. All people, regardless of race should go to the same school, to the same college, to the same university. There should be no All-Malay school, All-Chinese school, All-Indian school etc.
To do otherwise is racism and detrimental to the creation of bangsa malaysia. The existence of such venacular schools only adds racism sentiments. Sooner or later, if it is not changed, another 15 May will occur.

At the same time, I failed to see the fault line in the way the govt. constructs the syllabus (though changing from UK's style to the US' would be marvelous). The only area where the education minstry needs to work out is when English is related. To be frank, most Malaysians suck at English when compared to, errr... our beloved Singaporeans.

pardon the grammar, its late here.

[littlebigone]

woohoo...another one to support...hehehe...i think we should also do away with such schools...hehehe.

But i know Chen Chow will oppose to this..hehehe ;)

[chenchow]

fully agree with littlebigone that instead of criticism, we should come up with some constructive ideas on how to improve it. may be, later we could propose it up, or even spread the awareness around...

Back in my high school time, my school used to publish 3 books of students' essays, poems, or writing. One each in Malay, English, Mandarin. Each of the book could go up to 400 pages etc and students were involved in getting students to write on various styles, from short stories (cerpen), article, poems, etc... We were encouraged to write to Minda Pelajar and other publishings, besides taking part in some essays competition. I believe that those practice in writing would do a world of good. It would give students a very good support for them to write and every year, each of the category of writing for each subject is given pretty good reward. I think it is RM100 for first prize for cerpen and article writing each for each language. There would be a number of prizes including a RM20 for those consolation prizes. It would go a long way to encourage students to think and write.

Another thing would be debates. Debates help students a lot in thinking on the spot, as we may need to rebut at that particular instance, especially with the parlimentary styles. Sparring with friends in debates help a lot, and also the debriefing after debates allow us to learn a lot from others' opinions, comments. A debate competition does not end after the results are announced and what is important would be to learn on how others think of how is your argument constructed, how did those flow, how is your rebuttal, how is your style etc... I think these will help us a lot, especially if you could debate in multiple languages.

Another thing that I think lacking in most Malaysian schools, would be alumni backing. It is very heartening to see colleges in US to receive many million dollars of alumni donation each year. Back in Malaysia, this culture of giving back is still not really there. When I was in high school, only like once in a few months, I can see an alumni come back and donate a few computers to the school etc... I believe a lot of alumni could do more, even by just donating some books to school library or other support. That would go a long way to help build up the schools in Malaysia.

Another thing about our education system, would be for every school, especially those schools that could afford, to send teachers for courses and start computer courses. My high school has implemented compulsory computer classes, which count into school-based assessment grade since 1992. For instance, when I was in Remove, I learned Wordstar, Form 1, I learn ET3(a mandarin software) and Typing. Form 2, I learned Lotus 123 and DBase IV. Form 4, i learned C++ and something else which i can't remember. Although all those are outdated currently, and the school, I believe is teaching Microsoft Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint, Java, html etc to those students, I think the basic knowledge and comfortability of students with computer (and not just games) would help a lot.

[royston]

Well... I must agree that the point brought out by earth make sense.

If we have all students in a unique school/college/uni without selecting their race since young, everyone in a same classroom will treat each and everyone same, the atmosphere of racist will be seriously reduced, of course this will take a long time.

Everyone is taking same course, same textbook, speaking same language, same teachers, accepting same teaching skills and same knowledge... that will be great.

But, will there be any conflict in terms of their "agama"? I am not sure as I can't imagine till that stage.

No doubt, the syllabus of English teaching must be improved. Almost 40% of Malaysian don't know English, 20% can speak a little and 20% know English but have no guts to speak out... Besides the teaching skills, some public exposure need to be given in order to build up the confidence level.

~ roy ~

[silverblue]

I feel that to change the education system in Msia goes a loooooonnngg way... but it definitely has to start with the teachers..

You know how the mentality in Msia is that if you can't find any other job, you turn to teaching as a last resort. How would we be able to produce quality students if the teachers themselves are not committed into teaching?

So the first thing to improve is to improve the standard and quality of the teachers... the govt must somehow think of a way to attract better qualify teachers and train them with the appropriate skills. With good teachers, then we can start implementing whatever new systems we see fit.

[theT]

i think all culture should mix. but they shouldn't lose their identity.thts the unique of having our own culture.we should be a salad bowl instead of melting pot.

there should be no racial segregration. we all should cherish each other culture. i think its fun to learn bout other culture. we should not be the same.we all should have our own identity.be unique.yeah, malaysian is lacks of value of individuality.for me, wht makes us different tht makes us together.

i really like the idea of malaysia. malay, chinese and indian live in harmonious environment.but sadly, racism is still there in the heart of some malaysian. i think its lame.some malay used to say to me tht i'm not being "malay" since i believe in equality in all races.whatever.

but we all should be malaysian who uphold the good name of malaysia.

[__earth]

But, will there be any conflict in terms of their "agama"? I am not sure as I can't imagine till that stage.


that's why i said it would be marvelous if we practice the US' system. We should be able to choose classes when it comes to electives, like agama and languange (though BM and English will still be compulsory).

Islam, Buddism, Hinduism, Christianity or moral such could be thought to those who wants it. This is the reason where secularism acts the best. It eliminates your worry on the issue.

[iQing]

when I first come to UiTM... I though I will meet lotsa bright people but I was wrong..

some bright students are just geek...
they lack important skills such as giving speech / presentation..

many of such "bright students" are still in middle low level of Maslov's level of needs....
and I obsertve that these "high scorers" don't have much confidence and still have typical malaysian student's mind frame...

is something wrong with our system?
why there are not many young intelects in malaysia... the real learners etc?

not so happy about it... our country really needs a reform in edu system. change the mindframe etc.

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

[silverblue]

Hhmm... mebbe when the government wants to reform the education system, they should get a handful of well-qualified students to be in the planning committee too. I feel it's always important to get a student's prespective in implementing new education policies.

I really like the way how Cornell is so decentralized. Alot of the planning committees on campus level has at least one or two representative from students, even when it comes to changing/improving the Engineering College's requirements etc, or when the uni plans to award excellent faculty... I am in these committees, and it's amazing how well a students' input is so invaluable to the decisions made...

Perhaps Recom can send a rep or two to assist in future changes in the edu system! lol... ;)

[royston]

theT, as I have said, we should not categorized the students in Malay, Chinese or Hindu school/college and so on, we should have a unique school, which will only deliver knowlege to students regardless of the skin color. I agree with your points, instead of melt pot, we should be a salad bowl so that we will not lose our identity.

Secondly, teachers... Cheryl, tell you something, both my sisters are teachers. They told me that the mindset of the teachers nowadays are different. Their mind has changed to a normal office employee type, which is, morning come to work, after 6pm, cabut. Educating/Caring students patiently, this one left for "Lee Pai" to do... gosh!!! So I agree with you, we should find more qualified/patient/smart teachers but first of all, the goverment need to do something on their pay. My sister didn't receive her pay for 6 months... stupiak! No doubt, this is a long long way to go...

Public speaking skills should be made compulsory to students all, why? If you dare to speak, you dare to ask. If you dare to ask, you dare to challenge. This have to match with patient/smart teachers. The "traditional" teachers are like, if you dare to ask but I don't know, I will not answer you, if you keep challenging me, I will cane you. So teachers should be glad to take up any challenges from students and patiently answer their doubts. Of course, they have to be smart enough to differenciate between challenge/kacau.

Finally, students involvement in syllabus planning, new education policies implementation, all about delivering knowledge in a school/college/uni is a very very much effective way, but of course, students selected will be very crucial. Maybe they should select those role-model student, or students that friendly, smart, positive thinking and have good communication skills. I am not sure what are the proper behavior those students should have, maybe Cheryl can tell more.

Hey, these information are all important as we might potentially publish them to the public press.

Thanks for the patient.

~ roy ~

[Schye]

1) P.Moral sucks!
2) Well, i still think that SRJK should stay as they are now.But all secondary school should be having only SMK(i have no idea on private schools). The education in prmary school is needed so that every ethnic will be able to know their culture and background more while in secondary school . they will need to learn about others while having their own identity/culture.A person without a root wont be able to go far.Master a language before learning others too will help in learning other language.Ones wont be able to learn another language if one never master his mother toungue(The Japanese problem nowadays).

** I love my secondary school ,SMK Ibrahim;)

3)Goverment should support ALL the goverment school 100% and not 100% to SK and 50% to SRJK school.Everyone has the right to get the education they want and its goverment duty to provide education to all its citizens.I think this will help to decrease the misunderstanding on goverment ( anohter sensitive issue so i will stop it here)

4)There are many people out there who really want ot become teachers but many of them failed again and again.The intake are soo few although there are tons of people who has attended the interview(it seems that the standard of our teachers are not so low after all).One of my sister friend is now a kintergarden teacher after she fail to enter maktab perguruan.

Its time for a nap again...

[eeyore]

i guess i do like the idea of having a unique national school. in response to schye, i think we should still have private schools. my reasoning for this is that some students need more personal attention, some with learning disabilities, some who are more advanced, i think there are various private schools that cater for the needs of these students.

[eeyore]

also, another thought came to me while i was sitting in lecture earlier. i know that many people believe that having one kind of national school will foster ethnic unity even more, but the thing is i think it is easier said than done. i mean, there are many parents and alumni who want their kids to continue studying in chinese/tamil/agama schools. i mean i know a few friends who have gone to chinese schools, and they are very proud of their school, and they want chinese schools to remain as they are and if possible, to expand it. so how do we convince these people that having one type of school is better? i think these people have a very strong sense of pride for their ethnic / religious identity, they will oppose any changes to the system, so this will be something that is difficult. what suggestions do you guys have?

[__earth]

i mean, there are many parents and alumni who want their kids to continue studying in chinese/tamil/agama schools. i mean i know a few friends who have gone to chinese schools, and they are very proud of their school, and they want chinese schools to remain as they are and if possible, to expand it.

you are missing the point. The reason we want to eliminate vernacular schools is to eliminate that sentiment. And nobody said it is easy but it must be implemented.
During the days before the first Bastille Day, Voltaire said something about it is the responsibility of the few to educate the masses. Of course, he lost his head to the guillotine later but the Revolution brought France to a new level of power.
The ones that fights for non-vernacular system could be likened to the few said by Voltaire. The ones that believe in a divided system inherited from the British days are the masses. Clearly here, it is the job of the few to free the masses from old colonial mentality.

It is sad to see most Malaysians' mind are still trapped in the day of the British Empire when Victoria and Elizabeth I was still Queen of England. And when I see people celebrate Merdaka Day, they say that they do understand the meaning of independence. I, upon hearing that, look in disgust.
How could be be independent when your mind is still being colonized?

In my opinion, 40 years after 1957, we should not be talking about this because this issue should be resolved like 10 or 20 years ago.

[chenchow]

Reading with interests on all those posts. A lot of marvellous ideas out there!

I fully agree with the idea of salad bowl. It would allow students from various ethnic races to maintain their culture, identity, but they would have a very strong awareness of the entire society.

A little bit digress, but I think the open house concept during festival and the National Open House held in rotation between cities for all the major celebrations should be followed in the school system.

I am for one, being attracted by an idea Pak Lah brought up during his term as education minister. Integration planning. We know that each community would still want vernacular schools to exist. Then it is fine, but couldn't we do something? Pak Lah is suggesting and in fact he has instructed Tan Sri Musa to look into having neighboring schools having their co-curricular activities together. So, at the very least, students would be mixing with students from many races when they are doing co-curricular activities and during those time, there would be a lot of interaction. Isn't it a good idea?

On existing only SMK, currently SMJK is "almost" like SMK, with the only exception is that teachers would teach in mandarin or some chinese dialects, like hokkien, cantonese, yet the students would take exams in BM or English for science and mathematics... I have a Malay classmate in SMJK, and what surprises me is that her Mandarin is much better than mine! Yet, despite being in Chinese schools for all her 12 years of education, she is still a very religious person and perform all the requirements of Islam. Students in the class do respect her very much and we learn about consideration between races etc... In SRJK, the situation is much better, as 60,000 non-Chinese in SRJK, which means on average we have at least 50 non-Chinese in each SRJK and the number is fast growing.

The main reason the Chinese fundamentalist would want to have SRJK, is not about want to learn separately, but they care about the teaching of Chinese Language and making sure that the younger generation know the culture. Although some SRK, and SMK do teaches chinese, most of it was not done very extensively. And as a result, if this goes on, there would be no qualified chinese language teachers in the future...

[littlebigone]

I don't think that is a valid reason for having separate schools. There is so much you can do to still keep your culture going on, even if you don;t have chinese schools.

And to say the chinese language would dissipate is i think a large over exaggeration. Look at english, even though the level is not as good as we wish it to be, there are still exceptional and good students out there. I think that language problems stem from the home. You would be more comfortable speaking and writing in a language that you use most of the time, hence a very strong home influence on this. I think that if the chinese community were serious, as they are now, about maintaining chinese culture, then there would be no problem, as homes would use chinese and I bet there would be alot of community funding and such to promote chinese culture. I have many friends who took Chinese for PMR and SPM in a missionary school and they still did well. So i think this argument is flawed.

Chen Chow, it is not about whether chinese schools will produce rakyat who are as patriotic as non chinese schools, but i think it is about not making the distinction between races. I feel that one national school would let us do this. It would be just a school where the competition and pride is for your school not for "Chinese" or "sekolah" kebangsaan.

I think this is a crucial step that has to be taken sooner or later. Bangsa Malaysia has to be ignorant of checkboxes that ask for your race. And I think one of the fundamental changes towards this vision is a nondiscrimatory education system. I don't mean discriminatory as in prejudice, but by the mere fact that there has to be a classification by race for our education system. If the bumi's must give up their special rights, then the chinese and indians must all pile into one singular united Sekolah Malaysia.

[littlebigone]

i mean, there are many parents and alumni who want their kids to continue studying in chinese/tamil/agama schools. i mean i know a few friends who have gone to chinese schools, and they are very proud of their school, and they want chinese schools to remain as they are and if possible, to expand it.

you are missing the point. The reason we want to eliminate vernacular schools is to eliminate that sentiment. And nobody said it is easy but it must be implemented.
During the days before the first Bastille Day, Voltaire said something about it is the responsibility of the few to educate the masses. Of course, he lost his head to the guillotine later but the Revolution brought France to a new level of power.
The ones that fights for non-vernacular system could be likened to the few said by Voltaire. The ones that believe in a divided system inherited from the British days are the masses. Clearly here, it is the job of the few to free the masses from old colonial mentality.

It is sad to see most Malaysians' mind are still trapped in the day of the British Empire when Victoria and Elizabeth I was still Queen of England. And when I see people celebrate Merdaka Day, they say that they do understand the meaning of independence. I, upon hearing that, look in disgust.
How could be be independent when your mind is still being colonized?

In my opinion, 40 years after 1957, we should not be talking about this because this issue should be resolved like 10 or 20 years ago.

i just read your post and I really don't get what you're trying to say. What is the issue that you are talking about? And how does it relate to eeyore missing the point in his?

[__earth]

i just read your post and I really don't get what you're trying to say. What is the issue that you are talking about? And how does it relate to eeyore missing the point in his?

I was refering to Eeyore's "parents want their kids to go to vernacular school" statement and so I said he missed the point.
The reason non vernacular system should prevail is to undercut such sentiment. It should be done regardless of the opposition. This might sound autocratic but it is for a better bigot-free society.

[eeyore]

fogive me for missing the point, i am still unsure if i understand fully this discussion so please let me know if im thinking in the same direction. the idea to eliminate non smk is appealing to me too. in fact, i agree with it. we can say that we should do this even though it is difficult. but i'm concerned about one thing. will the government dare do this? i mean this is a political thing as well. the number of vernacular and religious schools in malaysia is not just a few, in fact there are many many schools like that. i'm sorry i can't give the exact number, but you know the situation. i mean a government that cares for the nation will go ahead and implement this, but i think that is too ideal. i dont think the present government nor pas or dap are willing to do so.

chenchow, i'm not sure which stand u take. you agree with the salad bowl concept, but at the same time your post makes me think that you are pro-vernacular schools. if smjk schools are almost the same as smk schools, then why not do without it? i mean, the language aspect can always be taught at home. you are from a chinese school, you learned from very good chinese language teachers, surely you are able to teach your children too, right? what do you think?

[littlebigone]

The reason vernacular system should prevail is to undercut such sentiment. It should be done regardless of the opposition. This might sound authocratic but it is for a better bigot-free society.

so you're saying that we should keep vernacular schools to have a bigot-free society?

How is that?

[__earth]

sorry, typo error. I really mean non-vernacular!!! sorry for the shameful err. but then, i think you get the point.

[littlebigone]

ohhh....okay....i think maybe you misread eeyore's post then...cost he was using the parent example to show that it would be difficult to have just one school. I think he was in support of just one national school...hehehe

Reading your post got my brains so confused.

[CrAzyCow]

Darn.. there is just too many post to read.. anyways, i think i got a gist of wat's the discussion about. We can alwiz give constructive arguments, but the questions is, whether this constructive arguments can be implemented? Hopefully, all these discussion are goin somewhere useful.

I agree to the abolishment of Chinese, Tamil n etc schools. By having these kind of schools, it will seperate the races in the society. Instead, why not have a "no-race" pre-requsite school where everybody are welcome to learn Chinese, Tamil, n watever language they want. Of course we will think, this will require more teachers in a particular school. In this case, hav a survey of the school n assign teachers to particular schools to teach in the afternoon. If not i am pretty sure all of us will be able to come up with a better idea.

All those exams like PMR n SPM should just be discarded. Why? Coz the standard is no longer uphold like it used to be. During my father's yr, getting one or two As n Bs in ur transcript is the best thing tht can happen to u.I find tht continuous assesment is a better way and it really push a student to do well consistently. This way, student will hav to be prepared for the entire academic yr rather than just waiting to about a month b4 begin preparation for the final exam which determines everything.

[chenchow]

eeyore, I am pro for having vernacular being continue to stay in Malaysia education system, but I believe that there should be a lot of interactions between students from different schools. How do you guys think about Pak Lah's initiative to link up co-curricular aspects for vernacular schools and national schools.

On language to be taught at home, how many parents currently know how to speak mandarin? i mean those malayisan chinese parents... only the younger generation know how to speak mandarin ... plus even among these younger generation, the level of mandarin has been deteriorating... So, to inculcate the speaking of chinese language at home is too far-fetched...

[__earth]

about the co-curriculum thing, it's good no doubt but it does not foster enough integration or at least, it would not foster integration as good as non-vernacular school would.

[topdog]

Malaysia's education system is a mess. Sadly, I don't see it being fixed anytime soon.

What I strongly believe should be done:

1) Abolish vernacular schools i.e. Chinese, Tamil, Islamic, any non-national school. Have a single "type" of school i.e. national schools. Students can choose to learn an extra language (e.g. Chinese, Tamil, Arabic) if they are so inclined.
2) Increase English usage, not just in Math & Science, but in subjects like History etc. This should NOT be done at the expense of Malay. Not sure how to achieve this though...
3) In short, follow Singapore's example. I think they've found almost the right balance in their education system.

Chenchow may have a lot to say about #3 :), and I concede I may be wrong about that, but I've got an exam coming up, so adieus for now.

As Topdog says,

I have experienced Singapore's education, and I would not say that it is superior or inferior to Malaysia. Certainly, it is not as good as everyone thought it would be.

Below are typical scenario in Singapore

a) Studying in Singapore == Good Grade == How to do well in Exams ...
b) Participating in co-curricular activities -- for what? for points to enter university...
c) Hardworking and studying whole day... true, they are very hardworking.
d) Kiasu, of course! need to say more?
e) Humanity values:- I have heard of fellow ASEAN scholars where someone got sick 2 weeks from A Level, and even his best friend, refused to borrow him any lecture notes, for fear that he would score better than him in A Level...

But I think constructively, we should learn from the positive aspects over there.. i will elaborate later on this..need to run..

[eeyore]

chenchow, i agree with earth that i don't think the whole co-curriculum thing can foster enough integration.

and, if your reason for maintaining vernacular schools is so that the students can learn the language better, why don't we abolish those schools and students can have the option for learning whatever language they want. like u said, chinese schools have very good teachers who know the language very well. so, we can always send these teachers to national schools too and implement this system right?

[masterof_none]

Whew, I spent almost half an hour to read the post that I totally missed this weekend. Have been busy with ReCom's creative corner with bachok(check it out!)

To all of you guys: great Job.

This is what ReCom's for and keep it up.
We'll fight for your views and we'll try to make sure that we can bring all our concern to the public. This can be done in lots of different ways and we're working on publishing your opinion to the local papers or magazine.

And, I like this kind of freewheeling discussions. As long as we keep in mind that we are Malaysians and by default, we should keep all the sensitive issues in mind, things are going to be fine. And , we should also keep in mind that we should engineer our argument so that it, like littlebigone said, constructive. You can say, P Moral is cr**, then, the government can just say :"So what?".


I'm reading the first/rough draft of the creation of Bangsa Malaysia here.
And we surely will make sure that we can create a history, by participating in the implementation of vision 2020.

and we also have to keep in mind that , this is only the first challange.
we've got 8 more challages to resolved 17 years from now.

[topdog]

As Topdog says,

I have experienced Singapore's education, and I would not say that it is superior or inferior to Malaysia. Certainly, it is not as good as everyone thought it would be.

Below are typical scenario in Singapore

a) Studying in Singapore == Good Grade == How to do well in Exams ...
b) Participating in co-curricular activities -- for what? for points to enter university...
c) Hardworking and studying whole day... true, they are very hardworking.
d) Kiasu, of course! need to say more?
e) Humanity values:- I have heard of fellow ASEAN scholars where someone got sick 2 weeks from A Level, and even his best friend, refused to borrow him any lecture notes, for fear that he would score better than him in A Level...

But I think constructively, we should learn from the positive aspects over there.. i will elaborate later on this..need to run..

Chenchow is that you? Erm...isn't the Malaysian education system for the most part about doing well in exams too?

Anyway, I was actually referring to the types of schools they have over there. Their racial make up is kind of like Malaysia's too, except that Chinese are in the majority. If they can do without SRJK(C) and SRJK(T) and so on, why can't we?

personally, i believe that our education system, we do a lot of spoon feeding. And i think, most of our students have become too used to that that they become unable to learn n get stuff for themselves.
Like here in my college, sometimes lecturers give notes etc, not many but just to help. So, it's up to us students to look for extra notes etc. to help in our studeis, if you rajin, you'll be better. Self study laa.
Thing is, during a dialogue session with our lecturers, one of the guys actually suggested that the lecturers should compile the notes, make a better and more complete one for our 1st year next year. I mean, like Hello??! 8O
How spoon-fed are we huh?
I'm gonna be an english teacher soon, (i'm taking TESl -teaching english as a 2nd language), n from what i've seen n heard, seems like teachers are the ones supposed to instill this non-changing traditions of our edu system in students..hmm.. That's what malaysian edu systems all bout. too bad.. :cry:

[theT]

i somehow think we should have a choice in choosing a school. there should be sekolah kebangsaan, at the same time there should be chinese, tamil, and religous school. we should have and option where we wanna send our children to. but just the syllabus should be change. and sekolah wawasan actually sound kinda good to me. we still go our prefered school at the same time we mix with children at the other school.to have just one type of school is unnecessary. we shouldn't be a melting pot.

[Schye]

I was studying in SRJK(c) and SMK.I love both my schools and that makes me think that vercular school is needed in promary standard and ONLY national school/ vercular school for secondary or upper level.

Vercular primary school may help to let one learn about their own cultures and master their own mother toungue well while leaning BM or BI to prepare for entering vercular school later.
Like Chen Chow said,having co-culicular activities together are a good start too.I used to play football with my malay neighbours and i think it helps me a lot in mixing with other races when i entered secondary school.

[taufiq]

I would say that having co-curicular activities is the best way
to intergrate among people in malaysia
we knew each other from co-curicular activities also
right chen chow! (and my other friends)

[iQing]

I totally, strongly disagree that we should abolish chinese SRJK

it's very foolish and it spoils all the system...
maybe I shall explain later...

I shall fight till the end if the government wants to kill of SRJK

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

[littlebigone]

what if people vote to change it? would you still fight to the end?

[royston]

iQing, you have the concern of losing our mandarin speaking capability if chinese SRJK been abolished?

~ roy ~

[eeyore]

yeah if you could highlight your reasons for supporting srjk's that would be great, because i think it's important that we get to hear the opinions from both sides and then discuss the issue even further

[CrAzyCow]

I am not from a chinese school but i still know how to speak chinese. I dun speak madarin at home either. So i dun think tht by abolishing chinese SRJ schools will cause us to lose our Mandarin speaking ability.

If we intergrate all the races into elementary schools, our young generations will learn to live together with other races. Since they are young, they will adapt better to their environment. By this way, we will be able to eliminate the stereotype perceptions of other races

[royston]

I guess mandarin speaking ability can be trained up easily but if we abolish the Chinese SRJK, the mandarin writing/reading skills will be lost.

I have a lot of friends, who came out from Penang Free School in Penang. They know how to speak mandarin, as they learn it by memorizing how to pronouce and things like that. They know how to translate Hokkien to Mandarin but when I showed them the mandarin words, they just ... lost!

So, to be more precise, it is not the speaking ability but the writing/reading skills will be lost if we abolish Chinese SRJK...

~ roy ~

[chenchow]

Am very interested to know how is the studying condition in other countries? anyone, mind sharing...

As currently, I am too used to open book exam, or at least with cheat sheet (we are typically allowed to bring a sheet or two of notes into exam and that is called cheat sheet, and we could put anything into it)..., what do you guys think? Open book vs Closed book?

[royston]

while i was taking my dip, we have a lot of test/exams. but here in penang, if we are "offerred" to have open book, that will be a nightmare for us because the questions prepared for open and close book test are TOTALLY different!!

our lecture told us once, "If I can give you open book test, even if you bring in all the books in the whole library, you will never find the answer!!"... see?

But there was once, the lecturer was initially preparing the close book exam questions and suddenly the management changed that exam to open books... we didn't bring in books but with all the A4 papers notes... all those are not actually notes, they are answer from Q1 until Q20 ... damn it !!! the lecturer really "no eye see" and walked out our Auditorium... hahaha !!

Open book test is mainly for you to think and answer. You may find some resources from the books, but a little bit only, maybe 1 statement from one of the paragraph...

Close book test, besides asking you to think, certain data/answer you have to memorize it. So normally the questions will not be that tough, quite straight forward...

These are the experience from my college.

~ roy ~

[iQing]

Yo.... what u guys dunno is from another perspektive

in chinese community
3 factors bind to create chinese strength

1. media
2. organisation
3. chinese school

one of the go down

the chinese society wont be as strong as before

I understand that young chinese generation like us seldom join chinese association like hokkien hui kuan, hainan ass. etc.

if u r not active as a member in these chinese organisation...

u can't see the real importance of SRJK

hard to explain until u see through the prospective of these organisation...

sadly, chinese r also separated... those chinese who can't speak chinese well dun mix around in these society....
mainly they r "banana man"

I guess for younger generation we can't wonder why the chinese community go into turmoil when KL chinese assembly is estrabish...

we dunno why chinese fight till death for chinese school

we can;t figure our why chinese r so obssess with the MCA buy nanyang press issue..

so pls.. view from this perspektive...

but i think younger chinese is not ready to comprehend the complicated situation here...

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

[chenchow]

iQing, if you know more about those perspective, would you mind share more about it? It would be very interesting to learn about it...

[iQing]

forget about the banana chinese.... they r not into the complicated associations of community..
and in malaysia there r lotsa chinee clans..
hokkien, hainan, kantonese etc.

they have thier own main association, which consist of much more other society

and they emerge into general association...

the main concern of this association .. hmm.. I'm not sure becozm I'm new to it...

some topics r important to them like..

how to unify chinese..
cultivating chinese culture etc..

and they function through media and school...

if u kill of SRJC
it means a platform for the chinese culture dies...

not just the learning of language..
but the power and voices of chinese community declines drasticly

i hope that satisfy u...

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

yep, totally agree. in IPBA, the ones who can read chinese characters, they mostly come from Chinese schools. There are even malays who can't read jawi. Thank God my parents send me to agama school when i was younger! 8O

[chenchow]

i would think that open book exam would test a lot more on students' understanding. As it is open book, students would not be able to just rely on memory or just merely copying solutions from the homework that had been done. Although it would increase the workload of teachers, in that they could not recycle the questions, it woudl be a very good determination of whether the students really understand the material.

Another thing would be in reality, everything would be in open book. We are allowed to utilize the resources from everywhere, including internet as reference and we should be teached on how to scan through material and find those useful material and not just remembering all those formulas that we were thought.

Another point would be picturing a scenario where one day, universities in Malaysia could have exams, where no invigilator is needed. Do you guys foresee that day? Where students would be honest enough not to cheat. Princeton University is doing that, where students are allowed to sit for their final exams any time they wish within the exam week and honor the honor code. The students would time themselves and some students may choose to take on monday, some students on wednesday, some on friday, as they wish. Would this scenario happen in Malaysia and the questions would not leak out? When is our society going to mature up to that utopian stage?... I really hope that the people in my motherland would be up to that challenge... It is like I have a dream, as uttered by Martin Luther King Jr.

[__earth]

Maybe you have a point on SRJK.

But do you condon the establishment of UiTM and UTAR?
One established for the Malays and the other for the Chinese.

both SRJK and the UiTM/UTAR are the same thing. The only thing that separate them is the level of education.

[chenchow]

I think there are some non-bumiputera in UiTM as well right? i am not too sure, but for Utar, it is opne for everyone, and there are a number of non-Chinese in Utar. The Utar donation process has been well-received from Malaysian of various races. Up to now, RM220 million or so have been raised within less than a year... and the main thing is that the money came from all walks of people in Malaysia.

forget about the banana chinese.... they r not into the complicated associations of community..

Hmm...I suspect the above quote will attract its fair share of attention...

Look iQing, no one is asking us (by us I mean ethnic Chinese) to give up our culture or assimilate into the Malay Muslim cultural majority. As you yourself noted, Malaysian society is already so complex. We are all so different, and that's something that makes Malaysia special (not unique, but special). Ah Meng is so different from Ali. Chances are Ah Meng lives in a different neighborhood (mostly Chinese) from Ali (you guessed it, mostly Malay). Ah Meng speaks Teochew at home while Ali speaks Malay. Ah Meng watches Pearl Drama. Ali watches Teater Klasik. We are all different and this is fine.

We like to talk about integration among the different races, but talk is cheap if we do not even interact with each other on a regular basis! The way I see it, the most sensible way to enable people of all races to come together is by having our youngsters study and play together under the same roof, using a common language. I don't see how Ah Meng who has gone to school all his/her life exclusively with others of the same race can claim to know people like Ali very well.

Granted, this view of a single school system might be too radical for many. No politician currently has the political will to even suggest the implementation of a single school system as he/she would only be opening a bag worms. Case in point: the negative response on this forum. That is why I said earlier that I don't see changes happening anytime soon...

I know Chinese schools mean a lot to you and I respect that. As for me, I personally believe that Malaysia cannot remain the way it is forever. Change has to happen sooner or later, starting with the education system, followed by affirmative action policies, you know the drill. It won't be pleasant and it will require each racial group to sacrifice a bit of something.

[topdog]

Erm...the preceding post was mine. Forgot to login before I posted:)

[chenchow]

i have to admit that the post by topdog is fantastic!

Ah Meng watches Pearl Drama. Ali watches Teater Klasik.

I don't think so. i hv quite a number of malay friends, who are quite "hantu cerita cina"...camne nih.. 8O

BTW, ALi's my grandfather's name..hehe :wink:

[littlebigone]

I'm personally very surprised by the number of people who support a singular national school system. I would have thought that more people would defend vernacular schools.

I can't speak chinese and I admit that this has led to a lot of teasing by my friends who can. I'm as IQing so eloquently put, a "banana man" :)

I've always thought that a very big flaw of the chinese school system is the "us against the world" idealogy that it breeds. I know that this may be in part due to the fact that the chinese school system has been neglected by the govt. The point is, this kind of thinking will be imprinted in childrens minds.

It's sad and it's very difficult, as pointed out by topdog, to giveup on the chinese school system for just a singular one. The difficulty is augmented by this "bunker" mentality.

I don't know, maybe I'm not qualified to talk about this since I'm only a banana man, I'm only half chinese. But i feel that chinese people in Malaysia should just be who they are here and forget about holding on to that last thread to China.

Anyway, I like open book exams. I think they are real tests of what you know of the material. I feel that open book exams allow for the Professor to set the paper such that it differentiates between the Good, the Gooder, and the Goodest students.

Thirdshifter, education has always been a good media for propoganda, as the minds of the young are weak. I agree that history is a whole load of bs. Of course at the time, I didn't really think much about it. But now, looking back, it's pretty obvious that we are learning a version of history that has be specially composed for us.

[iQing]

Creating unity through education system, I disagrree on that but I do agree we should be taugh to mix around and learn from others..
eliminating the egos that causes racial tension is better than mixing around and yet the tension is still there..

here's my experience...

i'm chinese educated

yet I and very close to the malays...
and I learn a lot from them...

ade banyak kawan aku kate aku ni macam melayu aje, sikit pun tak macam budak cina.... boleh paham skit bahase kelate...
nak tahu pasal Islam pun aku tahu serba banyak jugak... pernah bersaho + berpuasa dgn budak melayu lain...

and to mix the non-malay and malay togather in one school wont be effective as u think...

here's my experience...

in my course the chinese r minority
but they isolate themselve from the malay
maybe this has something to do with thier pride (u know lah... full A students...)

end up in the class there's always a chinese group sitting at the right and malays .. left site... abviousely this is a great separation and the racial tension is very tense in my course...
this is what happened to me... a real case..

so I tell u... u can eliminate all SRJK and mix them around and see how great the tension is there....

UTAR and UiTM... personally i think is a different case..
the chinese community is quite desperate as some chinese students who scored well can't enter government uni and they have to pay through thier nose in private college....
UTAR is set up for poor chinese students who face such troubles...

UiTM is set up for Bumiputra so that they can compete with the non-malays...


for the banana chinese.... what I'm trying to say that if u become a banana chinese, u cannot go into the mainstream chinese community, and this will weaken the strength of chinese community..
and u can get thier aid right...
so learn chinese and keep in touch with the chinese association..
find ur roots....
otherwise chinese can;'t be united...

that's all..

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

[mdmd]

At present, I could not foresee a need for an integrated education system for our country. The problem in the our education system is not the diversity that it represents, but more of the curricular. I came from a chinese primary school and continued my secondary education in a predominatnly chinese school too. Looking back today, I never felt a tinge of regret. Although I came from an english speaking family, growqing up ion a chinese school really fascinates me. I was given an opportunity to learn my mother tongue, to mix with other more 'chinese' friends gives me an insight into what a 'real chinese' family is like and to indulge in chinese cultural events and activities. I never felt a stranger with people from other races too, my circle of friends is a good representation of races in Malaysia and I enjoy the diversity at all times.

I couldn't see the reason for the need to replace the current education system into a single language curricula. Instead, more efforts should be taken to revamp the standard, the teaching method and the level of our education instead. Diversity is what i am preaching here. Just imagine all restaurants are Taco Bell or Mcdonalds...what a boring culinary experince we would have... :roll:

[__earth]

I know how you all feel. in fact, I myself was from the Malay College and the Malay sentiment there was really thick. Even right now, it's very think.

however, i think it's important to disolve the main characteristic of MCKK, from an all-malay school to all-malaysian school. I know this will receive a lot of resistance since a lot of powerful malays are against such movement.
Similar to the situation in other vernacular school, opposition is expected, in fact even MCA opposes this.

at the same time, i am against the bumiputra status. it, likes the vernacular system, is essentially racist. Affirmation action shoud be based socio-economically instead of racially.

i once had an argument with my american friend and he was pretty much surprised to hear the existence of vernacular school in malaysia. I dare bet, such school is unheard of anywhere but in malaysia. this is because, such system is outdated.

looking back in time, i can't help but wish Parti Negara had won the election instead of UMNO. Tun Onn Jaafar was a visionary ahead of his time - even ahead in our time.

yet, like somebody said earlier, it's surprising to know that there are more people who support non-vernacular system than its counterpart in this forum. Maybe, even that is a satisfying fact rather than actually revamping the system, at least for the time being. it's good to see that people realize it's the country that matters here, not a single race.

and when people talk about losing identity when vernacular is dissolved, i think their worry is unfounded. This is because when the school system is integrated, not only will the students be integrated, so will the teaching staff. So, classes for Chinese language and culture could be taught without interuption.

[eeyore]

hmm...i'm reading a lot of interesting opinions here. here's my humble response to some of them.

firstly, iqing mentioned that sometimes is friends say that he is more malay than chinese, that he has mixed around with the other races and understand their cultures too. but my question is, how many people are like iqing? i go to a national secondary school that includes students from srjk schools, and from my personal experience, most of them tend to stick to themselves, and not mix around with the rest, so i don't think everyone is like iqing. also, i think students in your course are about your age. maybe...the reason behind this racial tension is that students have been so used to just mixing around with friends of their own ethnic groups mainly. but if we start making students of much younger age go to a single type of school ... remember that the younger they are the more impressionable they are ... i don't think we will observe the same kind of scenario. this way the students can interact with other ethnic groups more easily before they have formed such a strong sense of ethnic identity, now i'm not saying that we shouldn't have a strong sense of ethnic identity, but if it's so strong that it affects the racial unity of malaysia, then that's bad. i think interaction with other races is the way to go. just because you watch a movie that's from another culture, that's nothing if you don't mix around and really understand other cultures.

[chenchow]

littlebigone said that "I've always thought that a very big flaw of the chinese school system is the "us against the world" idealogy that it breeds."

While I agree with most of the posts by everyone, but I think this view is seriously unwarranted. Do the chinese school system breeds such a kind of an ideology? Do the chinese school system breeds a bunch of Malaysian that are unpatriotic. If they are having this kind of mentality of "us against the world", would they do a lot for the sake of community? In Chinese schools, we do celebrate all festivals, even though there may be just a few non-Chinese. We are at least as patriotic as other Malaysians. Chinese schools never teach their students to exclude themselves from other communities in Malaysia. For instance, I do a number of community service when i was in high school, liaising with police department, fire department, National Drug Agency, JPJ etc for the benefits of community.

A number of our national leader, from Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting, Datuk Chan Kong Choy, Tan Sri Koh Tsu Koon all come out from chinese school system. Are they less patriotic than other Malaysians?

While I do agree with quite a number of other arguments supporting national school, I think taht this sentence is unwarranted. It is definitely not the situation...

[littlebigone]

hehehe...sorry chen chow. I have my own opinions and you have yours and sometimes we clash. And by the way, I didn't mention unpatriotic as I know there are people who are patriotic, like you, from chinese schools. I just meant that i feel sometimes Chinese school products would tend to stick together more. Obviously, this could be due to my own experiences, and your experience could lead you to believe otherwise. I don't think either of us have had enough experience to be the authority on this issue.

Secondly, I'm afraid my postings in this line of the discussion will start a war of words instead of becoming anything constructive, so I'll refrain from making statements like that. I apologize. :)

Anyway, from the two sides involved in this discussion, I think that one side is worried about losing it's culture should the schools be unified. The second side is all for this consolidation to promote unity amongst Malaysians. Is there a way to have one natiinal school and not neglect the culture of any one race?

[chenchow]

littlebigone, i'm sorry if I sounded too harsh in my previous post. What I meant was that I did not agree with your opinion and that was my opinion. Certainly, everyone of us is entitled to have our own opinion.

I do agree that there are certain students from same stream who stick together after they leave their primary schools, and it isn't healthy. But even if we look at currently when we are overseas, those from each country would tend to stick together. This isn't healthy either, if we look at ideal case.

Yeah, I think the main essence would be that through all these discussions we could find a balance and try to care for each other's main need and strike a balance with a whole new system which would blend both sides.
In this case, I think the best idea currently would be the Vision School.

Before having all these discussion, I tend to follow the community to say that Vision School is a no-go. That is the stand of MCA, Gerakan etc too. But after reading through all the arguments from all of you, my mind was telling me... why not give it a try? Many of you have said about the benefit of having one national school, so may be this concept of Vision School, where sharing the same school compound, and each would still get to attend the school of one's choice would be a good idea.

What do you guys think on this line?

[littlebigone]

What is Vision School? Chen Chow maybe you could elaborate for us who are don't know....like me :)

[wwhong]

i think the main obstacle to racial integrity is the people's mindset not because of different language type of school. until today, i still observed some racism happened here in US. Those whites and blacks go to the same school studying using the same language but still racism happens. if u argue that language is the barrier to racial integrity, look at indonesian chinese. they lost most of their own culture. they have indonesian name, speak indonesian, go to indonesian school, never or seldom spoke chinese,no idea about their own culture but still they became the scapegoat when bad things happened. remember the 98 riot?

i don't know why when everytime people mention about chinese school, they will label it as racist school, against the world, blah blah. just because we use chinese doesn't mean we are racist. we do study malay and english in school too. we do have malay and indian teachers and friends outside the school (please note i m not against the world but just writing in terms of my view point)

[i go to a national secondary school that includes students from srjk schools, and from my personal experience, most of them tend to stick to themselves, and not mix around with the rest, so i don't think everyone is like iqing]

won't it be those who went to SRK tend to stick among themselves? saying from my own experience, i went to a camp before where mostly the participants from sekolah kebangsaan. i tried to mix around and it was ok at the beginning but when they heard that i m from chinese school, things changed and all of a sudden i seemed to be rejected from the groups. until today, i still not quite sure what's the reason behind. is it because i m from chinese school and they are not? of course i m not saying all people from sekolah kebangsaan are arrogant or what but that's just my experience to show that it's not only that chinese school students don't want to mix around but others too. i do have other races friends and i have no problem at all mixing around with them.

yes, include chinese language etc in the so called national school or whatever and this will solve the worries of losing the chance to learn it. the problem is, how true will this be and how far will it be uphold? please dun blame me on this but if you flip the situation around let's say for the sake of unity, we should only have chinese school (of course this will never happended but just imagine) and malays and indians can choose to study malay and indian if they like, how far will you go with this? will you support wholeheartedly without any doubt? those who planned to hold a mooncake festival celebration in UTM with the aim of promoting more cultural integration was not even allowed offcially to do that. there's once the chinese debate team from USM was not allowed to represent USM in debate competition. judging from those examples, please don't blame the chinese community (mainly chinese educated) from opposing the national school system.

i agree unity should be promoted but not at the cost of banishing chinese school or indian school. will the problem be solved by changing the education system? why not let people make their own choice which type of school they want to go?

as long as those politicians stop using race issue for their own political gain and stop those kind of comments such as "chinese are not patriotic because they seldom hang flag during merdeka", we will make progress in unity. [/quote]

[chenchow]

what written by wwhong summed up the feelings of the chinese community and that's the reason why MCA, Gerakan are in a spot, and why all these problems are still there, despite us being independent for so long.

[wwhong]

oh i forgot to mention that I do NOT intend to ignite any racial topic here but just trying to explain the situation concerning the education system. as always, i might be wrong and i won't deny the fact just because of my own lack of the knowledge. please shoot me if i said anything wrong.
i think we as the next generation should try to solve the problem and to solve a problem, you have to approach the naked truth first, don't you?

[mdmd]

wwhong, you are right. I agree with your reasoning and that sums up to what i feel too.

[CrAzyCow]

Well said my fren. Yeah, speaking of politicians, remarks made by politicians about patriotism and blaming other races for not being patriotic is baseless. When i read the news about wat was said, instantly i resent whoever said tht. Is like, "hey look here, i hang 1000 M'sian flags." does this mean i am more patriotic? Since when patriotism can be measured?

Now come to think of it, it is not about the school tht is in the spotlight. Is wat is being taught in school... Coz if we look at the big picture, will it make a difference whether we have an integrated or non-integrated schools? Do we have a label on our forehead that says "I am from SRJK Choong Hwa"..

[wwhong]

Now come to think of it, it is not about the school tht is in the spotlight. Is wat is being taught in school... Coz if we look at the big picture, will it make a difference whether we have an integrated or non-integrated schools? Do we have a label on our forehead that says "I am from SRJK Choong Hwa"


that is so true, cow cow.

[Schye]

What is Vision School? Chen Chow maybe you could elaborate for us who are don't know....like me :)

I think national school doesn?t mean Sekolah Kebangsaan here.　National school is a new form of school suggested by education minister in year 1999(if I am not mistaken) where SRJK and SRK (or for secondary) will be having classes in the same school compound, same syllabus as the system now, each with their own mother tongue in all subjects but will be using the same canteen, and having co-curricular activities together. The idea of National school is good but I think we will need tons of money for that.

Iat the same time, i am against the bumiputra status. it, likes the vernacular system, is essentially racist. Affirmation action shoud be based socio-economically instead of racially.

i once had an argument with my american friend and he was pretty much surprised to hear the existence of vernacular school in malaysia. I dare bet, such school is unheard of anywhere but in malaysia. this is because, such system is outdated.

looking back in time, i can't help but wish Parti Negara had won the election instead of UMNO. Tun Onn Jaafar was a visionary ahead of his time - even ahead in our time.

I feel the same here too.As long as we have the Bumiputra status , there will not be "Malaysian".I did once took this point out in my class when i was in secondary school and i ahve stated teh smae idea as earth stated above, Affirmation action shoud be based socio-economically instead of racially.Ths situation now is different.Its 20th century and i think maybe its time for some changes.
(again this maybe sensitive :roll: so i stop it here.)

Well, maybe the integration will happen gradually as more and more people realise about the importance of it?

...need to go to class now ...to be continued

[iQing]

Dr M himself say that one of his failed policies are the NEP

he said by giving the bumis too much advantage, the outcome isn't that good... as Malays didn't use thier privilage effectively... and they become "dependant" to thier special rights..

dr M said that he cannot remove the right as the voter wont vote for BN if he do so...

until a stage where things go too critical...
last 2 years I think..

A chinese guy got 12 A 1 and he can't enter Government university

A malay guy with 4 A can get JPA scholarship

can u see how unfair it is....

hence the chinese community make serious complian...

the edu minister worsen the situation by suggesting that the quota should be increase. where malays get even more places in uni

Dr M has to remove the special right and the entrance is now base on academic result (I still think it's not 100% like that... r the Malays using thier internal exam as thier academic result?)

Dr M do so with several reason (my interpretion)

1. Chinese community is making noise, if he don't do something, BN fear that they will lose chinese votes
2. By letting malays to have too much right in education sector, this take away the chances of the chinese who really wanna study yet miss the chance, just becoz a seat is leave for the malays
3. the malay wont progress further if they are given too much tongkat
4. 70 percent of bumi students r perempuan... i think this affect such status quo indirectly.

talking about the malay rights, my malay friend say that the rights make them lazy...
it's not nice to hear such things but we have to face the reality...
my malay friend says that I just have to bersabar....

I'm angry when I heard a malay friend says like this.....

iQing : dapat fly ke germany tak?
MF : tak.. tape lah.. study local je...
iQing : apo lah... macam ni tak membanggakan negara, keluarga ko
MF : tak kisah
iQing : hoi, ko tau berapo budak cina yg study kuat takleh masuk uni, ko pulak cakap ni.... kalo semua budak melayu macam ni... orang yg betul2 nak study takde peluang study sebab tempat dah diambil org yg taknak study....

ko tau tak, ko ambik allowance byk drpd kerajaan masih nak complain, budak cina lain pulak bayar banyak sangat kat private college susah tau...

one of my experience....
non-malays should fight for themselves
some malays just donno how non-malay pay so much much money to private college and they still dun appreaciate what they have...
and they still want to go against the government who feed them so well, and go sokong party pembangkang....

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

[iQing]

yo guys...
for those who wanna add me in friendster (www.friendster.com)
my email is wushu_whc@<hidden>

friendster is the one that has expanded my social network and made me one of the most popular guy in my batch... really..
it's good for building social network...
see ya...

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

[Schye]

Yo, calm down man...
Well, maybe we shouldn?t take this stereotypically.
There are Chinese who are lazy too, and of course there are Malays who are hardworking and smart. The best example is 2 guys were sent back this year to Msia (JPA Japan scholar) ---- one is Chinese and another one is Malay.

some Malays just donno how non-malay pay so much much money to private college and they still dun appreaciate what they have...
and they still want to go against the government who feed them so well, and go sokong party pembangkang....

I can't really agree on the last sentence actually. We are the one who pay government and its government?s duty to treat everyone of his boss,us nicely. There should be nothing wrong to support opposition party even the government treats us well.
Note: I am not penyokong pembangkang though...


BY the way, there are a lot of others who are not Malays or Chinese too in Malaysia especially in Sabah and Sarawak. I don?t know about other courses but I found that the students who got the JPA scholarship to Japan are comparatively small in number. There is only one in my batch out of 48 who is my close friends- from Sarawak. Although the education system there is the same ( :roll: ), and their results are also not bad, their chances of getting scholarship are much lower than those who are from semenanjung.
I am not so sure about how the JPA officers evaluate us, but maybe there should be more chances provided to them. I am not so sure about the situation there so is I am wrong, please feel free to KUTUK me;)
And to those who are from Sabah or Sarawak, maybe you can provide us a clearer view on the situation there.

[chenchow]

Would like to bring everyone to have a look at Malaysian University of Science and T echnology...seems impressive, especially the faculties involved. It is still in its starting point, but check it out

http://www.must.edu.my/faculty.html

[silverblue]

BY the way, there are a lot of others who are not Malays or Chinese too in Malaysia especially in Sabah and Sarawak. I don?t know about other courses but I found that the students who got the JPA scholarship to Japan are comparatively small in number. There is only one in my batch out of 48 who is my close friends- from Sarawak. Although the education system there is the same ( :roll: ), and their results are also not bad, their chances of getting scholarship are much lower than those who are from semenanjung.
I am not so sure about how the JPA officers evaluate us, but maybe there should be more chances provided to them. I am not so sure about the situation there so is I am wrong, please feel free to KUTUK me;)
And to those who are from Sabah or Sarawak, maybe you can provide us a clearer view on the situation there.

My batch of JPA scholars to US (ATU 7) had so many students from Sabah and Sarawak!! Seriously.... we had like a whole bus load of them! So I don't think they have been sidelined or anything like that by the JPA officers. ;) Oh yeah, and most of them are also extremely smart smart wan u know!!

And on a side note, if I am not mistaken, JPA now only sends bumiputras to Japan to study... cos when I applied for the scholarship, they said "Jepun - bumiputra sahaja" ....

[Schye]

There are 2 types of scholarship that JPA sponsors in Japan.

one of them is PPKTJ (open for Bumi and non-Bumi) which we will need to study Japanese language for 2 years, then anohter 3 year in technical college to get a diploma.Basically the scholarship is only until diploma level but we can apply to continue the scholarship if we manage to enter a university for a degree.It will take about 7 years for one to get his degree for this course which is quite a long time to me :(

Another one is AAJ or RPKJ.This course is open only for Bumiputera.They will need to study for 2 years in UM and another 4 years in university in Japan.They can enter university in Japan without taking the university entrance exam in Japan as there are quota/places reserved from each university to them.

For PPKTJ , we will need to sit for the university exam and compete with other Japanese to enter limited places in university.Most of the university will take around maximum 2-3 people for each course.I am not sure if this will be good to us - as we will revise all we have studies before, or bad which means maybe a waste of time...
But life goes on 8)

And about scholars in Sabah or Sarawak, thanks for telling me that, Cheryl.So, it seems that only my batch is like this or maybe too many rejected the offer.

[masterof_none]

Dr M himself say that one of his failed policies are the NEP

he said by giving the bumis too much advantage, the outcome isn't that good... as Malays didn't use thier privilage effectively... and they become "dependant" to thier special rights..

dr M said that he cannot remove the right as the voter wont vote for BN if he do so...

until a stage where things go too critical...
last 2 years I think..

A chinese guy got 12 A 1 and he can't enter Government university

A malay guy with 4 A can get JPA scholarship

can u see how unfair it is....

hence the chinese community make serious complian...

the edu minister worsen the situation by suggesting that the quota should be increase. where malays get even more places in uni

Dr M has to remove the special right and the entrance is now base on academic result (I still think it's not 100% like that... r the Malays using thier internal exam as thier academic result?)

Dr M do so with several reason (my interpretion)

1. Chinese community is making noise, if he don't do something, BN fear that they will lose chinese votes
2. By letting malays to have too much right in education sector, this take away the chances of the chinese who really wanna study yet miss the chance, just becoz a seat is leave for the malays
3. the malay wont progress further if they are given too much tongkat
4. 70 percent of bumi students r perempuan... i think this affect such status quo indirectly.

talking about the malay rights, my malay friend say that the rights make them lazy...
it's not nice to hear such things but we have to face the reality...
my malay friend says that I just have to bersabar....

I'm angry when I heard a malay friend says like this.....

iQing : dapat fly ke germany tak?
MF : tak.. tape lah.. study local je...
iQing : apo lah... macam ni tak membanggakan negara, keluarga ko
MF : tak kisah
iQing : hoi, ko tau berapo budak cina yg study kuat takleh masuk uni, ko pulak cakap ni.... kalo semua budak melayu macam ni... orang yg betul2 nak study takde peluang study sebab tempat dah diambil org yg taknak study....

ko tau tak, ko ambik allowance byk drpd kerajaan masih nak complain, budak cina lain pulak bayar banyak sangat kat private college susah tau...

one of my experience....
non-malays should fight for themselves
some malays just donno how non-malay pay so much much money to private college and they still dun appreaciate what they have...
and they still want to go against the government who feed them so well, and go sokong party pembangkang....

"think, try and triumph"

iQing

I neither can say yes to your opinion, nor say no.

It is really a matter of our effort. If you think the Malay students don't really take advantage of the opportunity from the government, this is really their problem, not your problem, or my problem.

At ReCom, we want to create a new kind of people who don't really want to hear people whining a lot but do nothing about it.

The reason why we're here is to create something great. We don't have time to deal with people who want to drive themselves backwards.
That's their fault. And my answer to this is :

Who cares ?

If they don't want to change, who else can change them?.
I'm not in the position to change them. They gotta change themselves.

Sapa lambat, tinggal.

[bubblesgirl]

come on guys..cool down..i agreed this is unfair between malays and non-malays,but wat can we do?Should we bring out this sensitives topics,n struggle for our rights,then come to the outbreak of the tragedy of 513 again??
actlly we should feel thankful 2be borned in a peaceful country,such as Malaysia..n i think we should appreciate wat we have now..rather than dispute a truth that can`t be changed(",)..
Let`s pray for the harmony of not only the world,but also Malaysia.. :roll:

[iQing]

Of course we can't be passive until it goes beyond limit
besides, the chinese community has made noise... (su qiu event) because of this tension

there are certain special rights that have given problems to both malay and chinese

it's our right to protect ourselves
being passive has its own limit...

[littlebigone]

I think what master of none is trying to say that this discussion is not heading in line with Recom's goal of making something productive.

If people can't change themselves then there is nothing we can do about them. We can try to educate them, but if you notice, Recom does not have people like this. So i think you're preaching to the wrong group here.

There really is no point of bringing up anecdotes of such instances just to prove your point. It just adds to the tension of the an already precarious issue.

If you want to discuss this issue and be heard, then present facts and suggestions as to how to improve the education system. The more mature you are, the more likely you will be granted willing listeners.

For me, I think Malaysia is beginning to move in the right direction by trying to introduce a meritocracy system. But a lot needs to be done before a truly fair system is in place.

However, I think on top of that, there is a more worrisome issue at hand. The falling of passing and honors grades in our public exams. Sure, there are many more full scorers in Malaysia, but when the A1 mark is set at 50%, then I think these results are more superficial than a true representation of the nature of the Malaysia education level.

[Schye]

God only helps those who helps themselves.
If ones dont help themselves, no one can.

About the issue of advantages given to Bumis, i think our society is not ready for it yet.So, maybe we need to give them some time.
In fact,not everyone becomes lazy when they are given the advantages.There are a lot who are getting full use of it.

Malaysia can only be changed when the society is ready for it.
Maybe when
biar lambat asalkan selamat
is replaced with
sapa lambat , tinggal

[CrAzyCow]

I think Master_of_none was trying say that instead of fighting among ourselves about who should have more rights, we can work together and achieve something better. Which i agree his points as well.

No doubt there are alot of unfairness involved and myself being a 2nd class citizen doesn't make me feel better at all. But if u chose to continue fighting n condeming, will you make a difference? Talk as much as you want. All talk and no action will get you nowhere. So think and stop complaining about ur rights and perhaps give more opinions on how to improve the current situtation is a better way to approach this matter.

[chenchow]

I would say that the main thing for us will be to bersyukur and make full use of the opportunity. Many of us here are sponsored students and we are studying overseas under tax payers money. Irrespective of who you are, I think it is very important that we make full use of this GOLDEN opportunity to learn as much as possible.

To say that the allocation of scholarship is not fair to non-bumiputera and to say that non-bumiputera is second class citizen, I hope that you can reflect back on this issue.

Just look at this year JPA scholarships, there are at least 501 chinese offered JPA scholarship. Anyone that gets straight A1s are guaranteed scholarship and this has been so for the past 3 years. So, you know well before taking SPM that if you get straight A1s, then you are confirmed with the scholarship. If you get a couple of A2s, then who is to be blamed? You must remember that there are a lot of straight A1 students (mainly due to the lowering of standard, which i believe that most of us agree on this). There are a few hundred of straight A1s. Getting 8A1 can be considered fantastic results before, but now, with so many are getting 13A1, 12A1, 11A1, 10A1, 9A1..., so reflect back on that situation.

And another thing that I feel very disappointed is the number of Malaysians who reject scholarships. When I was in Orientation Committee in UiTM, JPA offered scholarship to about 1100 students and guess what is the turn out? 600-700+ , so where do those few hundred people go? While a small number get other scholarships, many of them, especially Chinese, came by saying, my son/daughter is now studying in Taylor and soon he will be overseas, why should i allow government to send him to ...(some countries, which to those parents, seem inferior). I don't understand. When the government does not offer you scholarship, you complaint; when offered, you reject it.

I have seen also many who has gone through the appeal process of appealing for scholarship, only to reject the scholarship after their appeals were granted. What are they doing here? While their offer is not binding on their part, why do you appeal? Isn't it that your move is only going to prevent others from getting the scholarship?

And talking about scholarship, I believe that Malaysia government gives the most scholarships among all countries in the world. Even if it is not the most, Malaysia is giving among the most scholarships. I have always heard my friends from various countries, be it Asian, Europeans, Latin American, African, lamenting that we, as Malaysians are too lucky. Come to think of it, how many countries do offer scholarship? Singapore? Thailand? Thailand comes with 20-year bond and if you break the bond, you pay triple.

[iQing]

I have read a news article in ReCom...
here's the link

http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=599&mode=&order=0&thold=0

it's about...

Asking the right questions
This week, StarEducation picks the brains of an education expert to put together a list of questions (and the answers) frequently asked by prospective students and their parents. The most common queries are on recognition, fees and loans.


This question fascinate me and I think we should see to this question ...
and I think we should think very hard about it...

5. Can I get a job after completing this course ?

An education is only a process that lays the foundation and provides you with the right skills and attitude for the job market. Getting a degree does not guarantee a job! Students must develop their EQ, creativity and teamwork spirit during college life. Extra-mural activities provide for a well-rounded development and gives you the edge.

A job seeker's performance during the interview will determine whether one gets the position applied for or not. Be a positive and creative student, full of passion and enthusiasm for life!

[chenchow]

I would like to add one more very essential aspect, besides what was being said EQ, Creativity, teamwork, interview skills which would involve communication skills.

Networking is by far the most important skills that you need to have to get a job currently, especially when the job market is tight. In the current situation, many job offers are not even published. It is through the contact that jobs interviews are allocated.

Leadership skills are also essential element!

And also if you are active in Recom, you can definitely mention that. You are networking with many Malaysians who are studying in various countries, keeping yourself updated to your country, besides putting your thoughts on various issues. I have highlighted the fact that there is a strong network of Malaysian students online, there have always been positive remarks about it!

I talked with a Cambodian friend a few days ago about education. She gave me a question which I never think before.
Did you ever think that you cant go to school because you have no money?'
Seriously, I m a happy go lucky person and who always has no worry all the time. I do know that a lot of people cant go to school because of financial problem but I never think bout myself. she told me, she always worry that she doesnt know what to do if she has no scholarships here, even in her country, not everybody can have high education because they cant afford it.
In Malaysia, we can get loan from the government if we cant afford the school fees. though during my cousin's time, I think they are Royston's age, they finished Form 5 and started working, but still, they took night courses keep on learning and I can say that they are doing quite well now.
sometimes I do think that a not so wealthy condition make somebody appreciate what they have and study hard.
like what my mother told me when I was a little child, 'only education can change your fate, you are not neccessary to get rich with your knowledge, but it will definitely enrich your life.'[/b]

[iQing]

Dear Chenchow....

thanx for highlighting some of the important skills
EQ, social network, teamwork, communication etc.

I think we should set up a special corner where articles are written specially for developing such skills are available... I think it's better not to provide the link but it should provide some articles... as this makes ReCom more like a place for developing skills and encouraging personal mastery...

I think if Recom members have the chance to read these articles and develop themselves, it would be nicew to see that ReCom is becoming a place to caltivate future leaders, entrepreneurs etc. just my suggestion

I agree that poverty is a motivating factor that makes a person wants to become rich. I have read that most millionaires in USA were not from wealthy family...

a quote from a successful person whom I have met:

The world is a hell for the poor people
a heaven for the rich people

[chenchow]

Hopefully, with the interconnectivity of the world, Malaysia education system can be further enhanced. Read the following articles in our news section.

http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=754&mode=&order=0&thold=0

And share your opinion on how Recom can help to enhance this connectivity and networking, which in the long run will help Malaysia!

[jiinjoo]

Bringing back this forum to the recent list - coz I find that it is interesting to continue this discussion. Since it has been a while, let's start by doing some reading on some recent news on Education:

This one is about flexi-education system proposed by NUTP
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/4/nation/7241073&sec=nation

This one is general stuff about STPM - maybe we should bring in some new ideas
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/1/education/7206557&sec=education

This one is about the son suing the father for education $ (I'm reproducing parts of the story that's relevant below)
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/2004010600113536.php

Foo Dui Geng (right) is suing his father Foo Woo Keat in the High Court in Ipoh for RM81,421 for fees for two semesters at the Nottingham Trent University and living expenses for a year, the agency said.

The court heard that the father divorced Foo's mother in 1987 and paid monthly maintenance of RM400 until taking him on in his factory at the age of 19 at a salary of RM600.

Foo said in his affidavit he was certain that if his parents were not divorced his father, "like any sensible parent", would have continued to support him until completion of tertiary education, Bernama reported.


Otherwise, we can talk about other new developments about the issues that we have talked about in the past few post.

[jiinjoo]

Bringing back this forum to the recent list - coz I find that it is interesting to continue this discussion. Since it has been a while, let's start by doing some reading on some recent news on Education:

This one is about flexi-education system proposed by NUTP
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/4/nation/7241073&sec=nation

This one is general stuff about STPM - maybe we should bring in some new ideas
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/1/education/7206557&sec=education

This one is about the son suing the father for education $ (I'm reproducing parts of the story that's relevant below)
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/2004010600113536.php

Foo Dui Geng (right) is suing his father Foo Woo Keat in the High Court in Ipoh for RM81,421 for fees for two semesters at the Nottingham Trent University and living expenses for a year, the agency said.

The court heard that the father divorced Foo's mother in 1987 and paid monthly maintenance of RM400 until taking him on in his factory at the age of 19 at a salary of RM600.

Foo said in his affidavit he was certain that if his parents were not divorced his father, "like any sensible parent", would have continued to support him until completion of tertiary education, Bernama reported.


Otherwise, we can talk about other new developments about the issues that we have talked about in the past few post.

[iQing]

^bump

[starlemon]

i would like to offer my 2 cent worth here.
Here is a simple suggestion to improve our education system.

Fix the grades.
My suggestion on the grades.
A1 : 90% and above A2 : 80% and above
B3 : 70% and above B4 : 60% and above
C5 : 50% and above C6 : 40% and above
Fail : 39% or lower

While it doesn't really improve the education system, it prevents student from getting As too easily.

[chongkeat]

No, they should be doing a percentile system, so that it won't depend on the standard of the exams, and is thus more accurate. But that's just IMHO.....

[youngyew]

Percentile is more accurate than a fixed threshold, that is for sure. But a more important issue is the quality of the papers - being placed at the 99th percentile of a crap paper is next to useless.

[vikraman]

Yeah a comparative percentile grading system averaging your best six subjects (must include maths and english.) should be adopted.

[DoomScythe]

A bit out of topic here, but I think this still fits here:

1. Teaching Maths In 1970

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price.
What is his profit?


2. Teaching Maths In 1980

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price, or ?800.
What is his profit?


3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800.
Did he make a profit?


4. Teaching Maths In 2000

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800 and his profit is ?200.
Your assignment: Underline the number 200.


5. Teaching Maths In 2008

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is totally selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands.
He does this so he can make a profit of ?200. What do you think of this way
of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the
birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no
wrong answers.
If you are upset about the plight of the animals in question counselling
will be available)

[Sillyboy]

A bit out of topic here, but I think this still fits here:

1. Teaching Maths In 1970

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price.
What is his profit?


2. Teaching Maths In 1980

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price, or ?800.
What is his profit?


3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800.
Did he make a profit?


4. Teaching Maths In 2000

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800 and his profit is ?200.
Your assignment: Underline the number 200.


5. Teaching Maths In 2008

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is totally selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands.
He does this so he can make a profit of ?200. What do you think of this way
of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the
birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no
wrong answers.
If you are upset about the plight of the animals in question counselling
will be available)

I love this!! A somewhat true depiction of what is going on currently!

[bluez_aspic]

ROFLOLOL :lol:

[zane]

A bit out of topic here, but I think this still fits here:

1. Teaching Maths In 1970

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price.
What is his profit?


2. Teaching Maths In 1980

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price, or ?800.
What is his profit?


3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800.
Did he make a profit?


4. Teaching Maths In 2000

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800 and his profit is ?200.
Your assignment: Underline the number 200.


5. Teaching Maths In 2008

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is totally selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands.
He does this so he can make a profit of ?200. What do you think of this way
of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the
birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no
wrong answers.
If you are upset about the plight of the animals in question counselling
will be available)

I need counselling:P...but somehow, it is true anyway. The science questions these days will beat around the bush before "touching" the topic.

[Athersin]

A bit out of topic here, but I think this still fits here:

1. Teaching Maths In 1970

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price.
What is his profit?


2. Teaching Maths In 1980

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price, or ?800.
What is his profit?


3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800.
Did he make a profit?


4. Teaching Maths In 2000

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800 and his profit is ?200.
Your assignment: Underline the number 200.


5. Teaching Maths In 2008

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is totally selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands.
He does this so he can make a profit of ?200. What do you think of this way
of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the
birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no
wrong answers.
If you are upset about the plight of the animals in question counselling
will be available)


mind to reveal which source you get this piece from?

interesting! LOL:laugh

[peihoon]

A bit out of topic here, but I think this still fits here:

1. Teaching Maths In 1970

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price.
What is his profit?


2. Teaching Maths In 1980

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the selling price, or ?800.
What is his profit?


3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800.
Did he make a profit?


4. Teaching Maths In 2000

A logger sells a lorry load of timber for ?1000.
His cost of production is ?800 and his profit is ?200.
Your assignment: Underline the number 200.


5. Teaching Maths In 2008

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is totally selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands.
He does this so he can make a profit of ?200. What do you think of this way
of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the
birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no
wrong answers.
If you are upset about the plight of the animals in question counselling
will be available)

it's interesting and sooooo TRUE!!

[vikraman]

Hilarious one Doom.

[DoomScythe]

mind to reveal which source you get this piece from?

interesting! LOL:laugh

Sorry for the late reply. A teacher of mine sent it to me. Got it from a forwarded mail. :) I was laughing in stiches when I read it as well.