New Proton Model after Gen2

[kelvinlym]

I found this after browsing through the net. I saw a picture of Satria Cabriolet (think Satria with the top off) but it's only for export and not for local market. One thing led to another and I found this article. Read it at

http://www.mellor.com.au/mellor/enews.nsf/edition/0727C01AC8C44B55CA256E60002DDBA4/$file/GoAuto_enews230.pdf

It was unveiled to the Cabinet some time back (published in the Star) and was planned to be launched in July. But keeping to the Malaysian spirit of never being punctual and the ever existent "teething" problems of our national car, it has been set back to October this year. Due to shortage of cylinder heads for the Campro engine.

It's codename is SRM or Satria Replacement Model and another model, the TRM or Taria bla bla (which will be launched next year).


Not many pictures without camouflage have been unveiled but from some sources, it will incorporate the design of the headlights of the new BMW models. (like Asian eyes)

My opinion, (to any Proton engineers out there and if it's possible), put in larger wheels for sporty versions like the Gen2.

[kucingbiru]

is it made of steel of cardboard? :P

[kelvinlym]

Hopefully steel this time :D I always wondered where did all my used Milo tins go.

[onehaz]

If there's any model they should have a replacement for, its the toaster-on-wheels Juara. :P

[kucingbiru]

http://www.alambiru.com.my/images/img_car_juara.gif

Some tech spec

Engine 1.1l 4A31 S4
Maximum Power kW/rpm 53/6000
hp/rpm 71/6000

Overall length 3660 mm
Overall width 1535 mm
Overall height 1810 mm
Material = Cardboard, preferably kotak peti sejuk.

[kucingbiru]

If there's any model they should have a replacement for, its the toaster-on-wheels Juara. :P

well, toaster on wheel is a little too good for it. to me it's more like kotak berjalan. (no offense to the fans of proton juara, this is just my opinion).

[digimushu]

The material for the TRM and the SRM skin seems like some sort of composite material. Bear in mind, although it seems weak, it is actually better than steel at dissipating impact energy at high velocities. Also, your car is going to be lighter and more fuel efficient.

Also, if it were given a larger rim, your tires would wear out faster also, since you have to use low profile tires. Albeit, acceleration would be faster(if the rims are lighter).

Proton has come a long was since the Wira. Inclusion of ABS and keyless entry is a welcome addition to the manufactured cars but it does not guarantee that there will be less accidents or more survivability in the event of a crash. It is always a trade off when designing cars, whether you want it to be faster or safer. You can't win them all.

IMHO, i'm pretty impressed with the strides that Proton has made since its birth in 1985 with the limited help is has got from Mitsubishi. Seems like the last 20 years has not been in vain. :D

[kelvinlym]

I suggested the larger wheels for the sportier version of Gen2 as an option to some customers who can afford it. It looks nicer in my opinion.

they are coming out with a 2.0l turbo version 2nd gen Satria Gti too if my memory serves me right. Around 3rd quarter of 2005.

Proton is also involved in building a sports car codename "Ultima" or "Ultimate".

Said to be based on the now defunct Lotus M250 chassis. (check on Google and drool). But latest updates say it will be based instead on the smaller Elise chassis.

Engine might be a Renault V6 or a Campro V6 churning out 200 hp. It might not be much but keep in mind a light Elise chassis with that power, hope you are wearing speed goggles. (the current Elise engine is only 118hp).

When will it be manufactured? Don't ask me.

[digimushu]

they are coming out with a 2.0l turbo version 2nd gen Satria Gti too if my memory serves me right. Around 3rd quarter of 2005.


Actually, Turbocharging an engine is the worse way to squeeze more power out of an engine, short of adding a Nitrous Oxide System(NOS) to the car.

For those who do not know, a tuned engine(as used by Ferrari, Porsche, etc) is the best thing to have on a car. why? thats be cause it is a naturally aspirated and built for running at high RPMs.

A turbocharged car, when you first start it, will experience 'turbo lag' which means that the maxmum power/torque coming out of your engine will be delayed. Even so, it is one of the more popular methods used to squeeze more power out of your typical small inline-4 engine.

Thus, I think that Proton should instead try to tune the engine instead of adding a turbocharger on it.

Maybe eventually we will come out with a hybrid electric proton car which can utilize Power-on-demand.

I hope that Proton will hasten its pace to try to catch up with the future of the auto industry. X-by-wire technology has already permeated through the US market and is well on the way to penetrate the Japanese market. Will we be stuck making cars that run on a 12V system while the whole world makes cars that run on 42V system? or will we be the center of automotive excellence in South East Asia? Only time will tell...

[screw3d]

I will start to be impressed if and when they can penetrate the European and American market. It seems all they do now is geared to the local market, and their foothold would be very shaky if imported cars have the same pricing edge as they do!

[windy_city]

they are coming out with a 2.0l turbo version 2nd gen Satria Gti too if my memory serves me right. Around 3rd quarter of 2005.


Actually, Turbocharging an engine is the worse way to squeeze more power out of an engine, short of adding a Nitrous Oxide System(NOS) to the car.

For those who do not know, a tuned engine(as used by Ferrari, Porsche, etc) is the best thing to have on a car. why? thats be cause it is a naturally aspirated and built for running at high RPMs.

A turbocharged car, when you first start it, will experience 'turbo lag' which means that the maxmum power/torque coming out of your engine will be delayed. Even so, it is one of the more popular methods used to squeeze more power out of your typical small inline-4 engine.

Thus, I think that Proton should instead try to tune the engine instead of adding a turbocharger on it.

Maybe eventually we will come out with a hybrid electric proton car which can utilize Power-on-demand.

I hope that Proton will hasten its pace to try to catch up with the future of the auto industry. X-by-wire technology has already permeated through the US market and is well on the way to penetrate the Japanese market. Will we be stuck making cars that run on a 12V system while the whole world makes cars that run on 42V system? or will we be the center of automotive excellence in South East Asia? Only time will tell...

It is not profitable/reasonable for them to upgrade to 42V. what the point? Adding the cost of the car? The Malaysians consumer will not care whether they are using 12V or 42V. Proton never really try to penetrate the others market, what they always aiming is to control (keeping the market share) of the local automotive industry. So there is no reason they want to develop something new into their cars that will raise cost, decrease profit, but will not increase much of their market share, unless they have a definite and solid plan in penetrating the international market (sadly to say, so far what they try to do is to save their asses from AFTA rather than expanding themselves into the international market)

[digimushu]

American market...highly unlikely..most americans are 'power freaks', our current engine/powertrain combination offers no such option.

European market, maybe..see first..hahaha

Actually, Proton should use the concept of incrementalism. The japanese actually did that. Think about it. they first created an engine that has a 1.2L displacement, after they perfected that, they worked on 1.3L engines and so on and so forth.

Also, when you think of it..who created the concept of the mini-van?
Its the Americans! However, the japanese (Honda & Toyota) actually dominate mini-van sales in the US now. why..?? because they actually improved in quality and listen to the consumers.

Moral of the story: The customer is ALWAYS right

[digimushu]

It is not profitable/reasonable for them to upgrade to 42V. what the point? Adding the cost of the car?


The upgrade from 12V to 42V is not merely adding the cost of the car. if you have noticed, our cars are very much electrically controlled/augmented now(EFI, ABS, TCS, keyless entry).

Those of you who owns Wiras will know that if u use the keyless entry to lock the car and leave it for 1 week (without starting it/entering the car), the wira battery will be dead. Plus, with the addition of stuff like GPS(on the Kembara) and more electronic control systems, the load on the vehicle wiring will be greater. If there is no adequate power on the vehicle electrical system to support all this, we can see that many batteries will be dead pretty soon.

It is not a matter of just cost...but also safety. Those of you doing Electrical Engineering will realize that electronic circuits with no regulators are sensitive to voltage/power fluctuations. What happens if the power is not enough for your airbag to deploy in the event of a crash?

Plus, adding more electronics to vehicles is the best thing to happen to the automotive industry. if more parts of your car is assembled by robots(such as electronic systems) then you will see the cost going down.

The price will go down real quick IF we own the core technology. It does not matter what we add on to the car, so long as we own the core technology, we can manufacture it ourselves.

[windy_city]

I know, but to own the core technology, a lot of money need to be spend on it first (Proton need to spend tones on R&D, they will not do that, because they cannot put R&D on the balance sheet when they reports their earning, meaning R&D will be stated as expenses) which mean less profit and more expenses for shareholders. (Who want to make the decision to spend so much on R&D especially when the company is not financially strong now). Money and profit are what drive the company on; nobody in Proton will want to risk his/her position on R&D at this time.

[digimushu]

yet another chicken or egg question ain't it?
*siGh*

[windy_city]

yet another chicken or egg question ain't it?
*siGh*

that is how the business world works, too bad.
:wink:

[kelvinlym]

IMO, Proton need not penetrate the American market just yet, or rather need not try to invade the markets of powerhouses like BMW or Toyota.

What Proton needs is to increase their productivity without sacrificing product quality by implementing current tried and tested methods from big manufacturer. i.e. increase the current automation from 60% to high 80%.

They should instead try to focus in a class of cars (cheap but durable or small but classy etc). This will cater to a niche market which is easier to satisfy and by focusing on ONE thing and doing it real GOOD is better than doing everything but with only so-so results. Think Google.

On another note, Proton's decision on turbocharging the Satria is not a bad idea. They need to come out with different variations and models fast after the drought btw Waja and Gen2. e.g. in Australia 200 different models are launched per year, about 1 every other day, and Proton has only 2 the Impian (Waja) and the Jumpbuck(Arena).

Turbocharging isn't a bad idea. It's cheaper than tuning it and I agree that reliability issues come into play. But the Satria Gti is meant as a cheap boy racer car so they won't really bother with reliability but rather power. Hope Proton doesn't bolt on some cheap turbo but rather go for quality names. Their move of installing Recaro seats as an option in Gti is very good.

With turbo, turbo lag always come into play. You could either install a supercharged system instead (runs on exhaust gases instead of the main engine fan/belt (not sure), am i right?). Or Proton can go crazy by installing a twin turbo *drool*, one for low rpm while the other kicks in at high rpm (like what Toyota did for the Supra and Mitsubishi for the GTO)

Well, what I think is that Proton needs an independant tuning house, no supported by Government BS but rather supported with technology by Proton and the tuning house comes out with the manpower and expertise. Something like AMG or Brabus for the Merc or Spoon for Honda. The tuning house gets to rebadge the car and sell it as their brand with a cut to Proton (for tech and support) as well as the materials. They must be independant as in, let them market their own, sell their own, and provide after sales service on their own. Takes a load off Proton's shoulders. Proton just needs to focus on mass production while the tuning house focuses on the details.

I think that's about it from me.

[kucingbiru]

American market...highly unlikely..most americans are 'power freaks', our current engine/powertrain combination offers no such option.

the safety standard in america is quite high too. surely a cardboard car wont pass the test. :P

[kelvinlym]

This is a Proton model worth drooling over.

http://srv.fotopages.com/2/1251258.jpg

I hope it's true though. What with all the fake images on the net.

Got the styling of a Honda S2000. Now that's what I like, with 17" wheels.

Just hope they remember to install the rubber seals on the car's doors.

When will Proton ever learn?

[digimushu]

I wonder..what is the drag coefficient on tha thing?
looks too faceted to have smooth boundary layer on the body tho..

All in all, a very good Honda Knockoff?

[el_empty]

well at least the designers are more... design oriented now.

but i wonder - this release model seems pretty low and i wonder if it can withstand the potholed-infested roads of malaysia? and those ANNOYING road bumps!

[pandaboy]

Proton is exporting their cars to UK, rite? How much are they earning by doing this.... I wonder. I thought cars in Uk are way cheaper than Malaysia? An officeboy can easily drive a second hand BMW 3 Series.... :roll:

[digimushu]

http://www.star-motoring.com/research/review.asp?file=/editorial/2004/rm3boto.html

Government spending more $$$ on our auto industry...any thoughts?

[kucingbiru]

Government spending more $$$ on our auto industry...any thoughts?

maybe because the supply of tin milo is depleting. :P

[chenchow]

After the tie-up with VW, which does not seem to be anything much to shout about.

Government of Singapore Investment Corporation has just invested USD65 million for a 5% stake in Proton.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e2d5d9be-3e86-11d9-a52d-00000e2511c8.html

Does this mean a good turn around for Proton?

[misled_youth]

Seems like the last 20 years has not been in vain. :D

It's ok to be in denial. Just not for too long ok?
________
COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARY (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

[digimushu]

Seems like the last 20 years has not been in vain. :D

It's ok to be in denial. Just not for too long ok?

Although i agree that some of our cars are sub standard, the built quality is slightly better than the POS american-made junk i'm driving. If everything made in M'sia is crap then we might as well stop buying amd and intel processors.

If you think that our cars are crap, you should try buying a Ford as your first car.

[weich]

Government of Singapore Investment Corporation has just invested USD65 million for a 5% stake in Proton.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e2d5d9be-3e86-11d9-a52d-00000e2511c8.html

Does this mean a good turn around for Proton?

Hmm...probably...not sure if I got my facts correct but I think GIC & Temasek could be playing on getting a stake in big Malaysian companies for quite a cheap price, considering the strength of the S$ against the USD recently, also they could be playing on the scenario whereby M'sia might unpeg or re-peg from the USD, depending on the situation with China's RMB...which seems quite a good investment..

also, proton's going to assemble 2 of VW's models soon...and that perhaps would make Malaysia VW's main assembly centre?

wonder if you guys have seen this:

http://www.lowyat.net/v2/images/proton.jpg

Cheers

[trishotiwuth]

Why do I sense that the article's rather sarcastic? but then again, the design does seem weird, like something that was picked right out of Need For Speed, only a bit disporpotionate (damn my spelling!). so no wonder the mat sallehs think we're flying too high again...

[el_empty]

pics of the new proton SRM are leaked out

http://www.macxcess.com/vblog/images/srm2.jpg

http://www.macxcess.com/vblog/images/srm1.jpg

and some dude caught them testdriving:

http://www.macxcess.com/vblog/images/srm3.jpg

so did another guy:

http://www.rizainuddin.com/hello/171/2844/640/Picture%282%29%5B3%5D.jpg

at http://www.rizainuddin.com/2005/02/spyshot-proton-satria-srm.html

[kelvinlym]

And this car was supposed to be launched Oct last year after a delay.

Well, if the delay is to smooth out the rough edges and to produce a quality and reliable model, I'm all up for it Proton.

But if you cakap tak serupa bikin again, sigh... I'll just have to turn to other brands.

Prove me wrong Proton, prove me wrong. Make a car where I don't have to explain to my Turkish friends why the dashboard feels so plasticky and the door doesn't open well.

Remember, I'll be a car buyer after I graduate, so better get that quality up cause I've seen better cars with a lower price point in Germany.

(Hope someone of authority is reading this *snicker*)

[chenchow]

Any thought on the shape of the car? Any comment on the exterior view?

[digimushu]

Hrmmm...

IMHO, shape comes secondary. The only place where form comes before function is in the dictionary. Besides that, I think they are starting to learn to design more contemporary-looking body panels.

If a car looks good but lacks power and crashworthiness, you might just end up richer (and maybe safer) on a bicycle.

[weich]

the outside looks pretty decent.. =)

Anyway, at least the looks department is improving...but if it's cheap, then it's worth buying i guess

[DecentMerson]

IMHO, shape comes secondary. The only place where form comes before function is in the dictionary.


wait a sec... u r kinda contradicting urself ??

Besides that, I think they are starting to learn to design more contemporary-looking body panels.

[digimushu]

Not really. I did not say that the body panels are any more aerodynamic...did i? Gonna have to see the wind tunnel numbers for that. I just say they 'look' up to date.

:)