Actuarial Science Vs Engineering

[Nicholasng925]

Actually I'm in dilemma now, whether to choose A-Levels in MCKL or Diploma in Electrical Engineering(Communication) in UTM. To be frankly, Engineering were my preferred courses since I was in primary school, but well, apparently I don't really know a lot about this course. Until when I was in Form 4, I suddenly fell in love with this very particular course - Actuarial Science. I had never heard about it before when my dad(a banker) mentioned about it in a random talk on a journey back to home from a vacation. Curiosity aroused from the talk, and I straight away did researches about Actuarial Science once I reached home. Unexpectedly, I fell in love with this course, and kept on telling myself that I want to study this course as my future career!

Apparently, my knowledge about Actuarial Science is definitely more than that in Engineering courses. I knew that to become a qualified actuary, one have to sacrifice a lot of precious time to study for the series of professional actuarial exams, and certainly it is a very very tough task. Yes, I knew about this and I'm still wanting to continue this course, still wanting to fulfill my dream to be a qualified actuary, with perseverance, deep passion and hard work. In fact, I think I owned most of the criteria needed to become an actuary. Unfortunately, JPA don't offer this course anymore this year, and I have to apply Science as my alternative, since Actuarial Science can be one of the majors in Science in most of the universities abroad. Having my back up plan to study A-Levels in MCKL is seemingly a great decision and a good choice for me to continue my pursuit of my dream since I would be taking Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Accounting(a perfect combination for actuarial studies) in the A-Levels. Well, even though I have got 100% tuition waiver scholarship from the college, I still have to pay RM8-9k for the overall 1.5 year A-Levels programme in MCKL, which is considerably cheaper as compared to other private colleges such as Taylor's, Sunway, etc.

Undoubtedly, taking A-Levels on my own would be very risky upon the completion of the A-Levels programme. Albeit I might get 4As for my A-Levels and some offer letters from top notch universities abroad if I study hard and smart enough, but the financial constraint would be always the problem I would face. How if I can't get any scholarship even though with the above criteria? How can i fund my study abroad, maybe in UK, US, Australia or Canada? Well, the worst scenario would be failing to get any scholarship or financial aid and ending up to study Actuarial Science in UTAR, and definitely I would still need to pay for the study there, maybe supported by PTPTN loan. However, I don't think I am ready enough to face the worst scenario, and certainly I won't be really like to study in UTAR due to various factors.

A few days ago, I have successfully got Diploma in Electrical Engineering(Communication) in UTM, and that seems like my old lover. My parents kept on saying that E&E is a very good course, and you would be regretting for not grabbing this perfect opportunity, for not every non-Bumi can get. For me, it would not be any problem if I study Electrical Engineering cause it is still involving Maths and Physics, in which both of these are my favorite subjects back in high school and I was able to score A+ for both. However, I knew nothing about Electrical Engineering, besides knowing it for involving Physics, Maths, diodes, transformer, voltage and so on. That's all! About the working environment of electrical engineer, I have totally no idea. However, Diploma in E&E is definitely the safer, smoother, and cheaper pathway as compared to pathway towards my dream, which would be involving A-Levels and luck, and that would be extremely risky for the latter one.

For the working environment of actuary, I knew that an actuary would be facing lots of computer to build actuarial models by using actuarial softwares (Prophet, Moses, etc), meeting lots of clients to explain the highly sophisticated actuarial models to them, pricing insurance premiums, calculating and managing risk that would be faced by the community to protect security of the financial world. Ironically, sometimes I do cross over some thoughts that I can't cope up with actuarial studies, as I have never study it back in high school, for the most thing that I studied were merely simple Probability, Probability Distribution and Statistics in Additional Maths, and some theories in Principle of Accounts.

Precious comments and advices are very much appreciated, and thanks in advance! :)

[kaze]

Actuarial science indeed is a good course. I don't know much about this course too, until I was in form 4. I used to consider becoming an actuary myself, but end up doing engineering instead. Primarily because I don't think I can sacrifice my time to focus on the journey to become a qualified actuary. If you think you have the determination to pursue your dream, then go ahead. I'm impressed that you have thoroughly given this a thought. As to your concern about not able to pay for your study, I think if you have very good A-level result, you should be able to find a willing sponsor.

Electrical engineering is a wide subject, you may opt to specialize in computer, microelectronics, signal / image processing, robotics, networking & communication, etc. Personally, I think the best part in EE is design. As a designer, your job scope is like, given a design criterion from your client, you'll utilize everything you have learn to turn it into reality. Even things as simple as designing an automatic door in supermarket, to complex things like designing control system in an aeroplane requires team work. I also know a person who went into networking. Right now he's still a technician, so his job varies: monitoring the internet connection in his company, fixing the cables if anything went wrong, and also setting up and wiring things as per instruction from the people above him.

On the other side, think about this. A diploma usually takes 3 years to complete. Given the fact that in Malaysia, there a a lot of people who graduated with a diploma, and a lot of degree-holder graduated from overseas, perhaps you'll be having a tough time to get a job with only a diploma in your hand. Even if you do get a job, the salary you earn is way too low. So then, if you continue on getting a degree, it'll take about 4 years to complete. And only then, you'll start to work. By then, you've used up 7 years of your life, just to study engineering. Note that engineering is one of the field in which seniority counts. What are the chances that a 25 year-old guy, freshly graduated from a local university will be hired compared to younger person who graduated from overseas? Once hired, you'll spend earlier years in your career as technician, until you earn your professional engineer title. It's a long journey.

Either way you choose, it's going to consume years of your life. The question is, how do you want to spend the rest of your life? :)

[Nicholasng925]

Hey kaze, thanks for your insightful reply. Yes, Actuarial Science is indeed a very good course, and i believe that that's what made me fell in love with it, despite the fact that I didn't study this course before. I believe that that's what made me so determined, by merely researching about this course. I think that I have the determination and a very deep passion to continue the pursuit of my dream, and I think I'm willing to spend my next 10 years just to study for the series of professional actuarial exams. Thanks again for perceiving this issue from different angle, in which I think I missed out. Yes, for the time range, I was totally not aware about the time range that I would need to spend to eventually become an IR, before you posted it up.

When you mentioned about the time range of taking engineering course in Malaysia, from diploma until IR, I believe that it would easily take up at least 10 years or more, which means the time range to become an IR would be more a less the same as that to become a qualified actuary. For me, I would prefer to be a qualified actuary more, as I only knew the top lining of Engineering courses. Frankly speaking, sometimes I do know things about Engineering, but yet don't know why, I would easily forget them and thought that I don't know anything about it. Maybe that's the indicator that shows my lack of interest in the engineering field. Basically I only knew that engineer would be a technician initially, and other than that I have totally no idea. My mom kept on pestering me to take up Engineering course, cause most of her colleagues are engineers, who can easily earn up to 10k above as their monthly salary.

However, I don't think I would want to receive the offer of diploma anymore after I thought thoroughly once again. In fact, I have thought about this matter more than 10 times. As for your question, I think I would prefer to work with the computer, as well as people around me, to contribute my finest actuarial skills that can affect millions or billions of people in the community, and help supporting the security of financial world. Oh, and I have always get fascinated by the topics of risk management. Ironically, most of the time when I read books about risk management, I can hardly understand most of the contents within. When I research about Actuarial Science, sometimes I do come across the formulae and those formulae would definitely make me dizzy. @<hidden>@<hidden> Maybe it is because I haven't start learning about the actuarial topics, and I think it's normal for a first timer to be dizzy when they look at the formulae. Well, you would know what I meant when you research about it. Maybe that's what made me to be so interested in Actuarial Science, for the contents that are always challenging and, that had aroused my desire to tackle them.

Anyways, thanks again for your precious advices and comments! I really appreciate it! :)

[FakeAngel]

there'r quite a lot of ppl go for Act. Sc and end up with something else, n I am one of them. Oops, I even prepared myself in a level by taking up econs, maths, chem. yet, when it comes to undergraduate studies, i give it up. I have my reasons for this decision, n do trust me, I have struggled for quite some time to come to this decision. It mayb just that I am not as daring as I was 2 years ago, or put in another way, we think more and finer as we grow.

If you are so determined in pursuing this, all the best to you. Sometime, i do feel good seeing ppl going after act. sc which is my aspiration still, though I have chosen another path.

[sengloon]

I don't think that I am qualified to provide any advices here,as I just found out your situation just like mine. In fact I am a STPM leaver who waiting to study Maths and econs in NTU singapore. During my secondary school life, I had been exposed to actuarial science and I felt that myself interested in it too. Nonetheless after Spm I was still undecided about my career because it was uncertain for me to keep the passion and perseverance in Actuarial Science. Due to financial problem I had choose to study STPM in fact of Utar neither Matriculation that I being offered. Although my dream to become an qualified actuary has not been diminished now, and furthermore I have get 4-flat in STPM, I regret for not choosing the correct AS path at that time because for now, I have no any background of economics and accounting. I not even dare to pick up actuarial path in SG due to the lack of that 2 subjects. So now I am just hoping to being offered AS in local Unis or else I will enroll into NTU. From my story I would like to tell you do not make a decision for an easy route in future. I can see your passion and you know a lot about Actuarial too. Don't lose your faith and choose the real path that lead you to your dream. One will be only success if he or she not afraid to any obstacles. :)

[Nicholasng925]

there'r quite a lot of ppl go for Act. Sc and end up with something else, n I am one of them. Oops, I even prepared myself in a level by taking up econs, maths, chem. yet, when it comes to undergraduate studies, i give it up. I have my reasons for this decision, n do trust me, I have struggled for quite some time to come to this decision. It mayb just that I am not as daring as I was 2 years ago, or put in another way, we think more and finer as we grow.

If you are so determined in pursuing this, all the best to you. Sometime, i do feel good seeing ppl going after act. sc which is my aspiration still, though I have chosen another path.

Yes I believe there are lots of people who wanted to study Actuarial Science so badly, but ended up in the other pathways, simply because they thought that they don't have enough confidence that they are able to pass the series of actuarial professional exams. I have registered myself in MCKL few weeks ago for A-Levels July intake, and would be taking Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Accounting. As your statement of we think more and finer as we grow, yeah i think that's true, but for me, the initial spirit and determination are required for us to maintain, if we want to succeed in our chosen course.

Well, even though you have chosen another path, still I think that it'd never been too late for you to switch into actuarial field anytime in future, since it's still your aspiration. Thanks a lot, and good luck to you too! :)

I don't think that I am qualified to provide any advices here,as I just found out your situation just like mine. In fact I am a STPM leaver who waiting to study Maths and econs in NTU singapore. During my secondary school life, I had been exposed to actuarial science and I felt that myself interested in it too. Nonetheless after Spm I was still undecided about my career because it was uncertain for me to keep the passion and perseverance in Actuarial Science. Due to financial problem I had choose to study STPM in fact of Utar neither Matriculation that I being offered. Although my dream to become an qualified actuary has not been diminished now, and furthermore I have get 4-flat in STPM, I regret for not choosing the correct AS path at that time because for now, I have no any background of economics and accounting. I not even dare to pick up actuarial path in SG due to the lack of that 2 subjects. So now I am just hoping to being offered AS in local Unis or else I will enroll into NTU. From my story I would like to tell you do not make a decision for an easy route in future. I can see your passion and you know a lot about Actuarial too. Don't lose your faith and choose the real path that lead you to your dream. One will be only success if he or she not afraid to any obstacles. :)

Thanks a lot for your precious advices. Well I think you are qualified enough to give me advices, simply because you had been in my situation before. For the fact of financial constraint, if I was unsuccessful in getting 100% tuition waiver scholarship from the college, I think I would be going Form 6 too, and definitely I couldn't take Economics and Accounting by then as I was being offered Science stream. Chemistry and Physics/Biology are compulsory for me to study in Science stream, and I don't think I'm willing to spend my time studying something that I won't be applying in future. Yes I can change into Art stream, but I have always wanted to take Maths T and Further Maths T in STPM, and both of these subjects are only available in Science stream. That's the reasons I chose A-Levels for my Pre-U study, and i think that's the best way for me to study the perfect combination for Actuarial Science, which are Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Accounting.

Wow, seems like you are going to NTU for Mathematics and Economics, and believe me, I do research about NTU and knew about some of the courses there. Double major of Maths and Economics, Mathematical Science and Actuarial Science are available in NTU. If you still want to study Actuarial Science, why don't you opt for Singapore but locally instead? Will that make any difference? However, if you still afraid about not being able to cope up with Actuarial Science due to the lack of Economics and Accounting basic skills, you can always opt for Mathematical Science or Maths & Economics as both of them can be a stepping stone for you to enter actuarial field later upon your graduation.

Thanks a lot for your advices, and I think I have cleared my dilemma. Good luck to you too! :amuse

[Restl3ss]

Though you've already cleared you dilemma, but you said you want to see this? :lol Okay, so here it goes.

I guess the main point you are confused is because you don't know if you should risk your luck again for your main dream or to travel the safe path to your second dream, is it? My father advices me that, once you have set your goal, don't get too involved in others options as the more choices you have, the more confused you'll be.

I believe actuarial science and engineering are two good courses worthy of you to venture in. So the choice of your course is really up to your interest and passion. (Do lots and lots of research in it!)

I'm being personal here actually. For your case, it's the safe way or the risky way right? Thus I'll list a little of the pros and cons I know for each your choice, to make your decision easier.

Actuarial Science
Pros
-This is the course you had always wanted to go for (you are interested and have passion in it)
[FONT=Verdana]-It

[Smilehoe]

Hi Nicholasng925,
First of all, I think that the effort you put in considering and researching on actuarial science is impressive. I didn't know as much as you do while I was at your place.

I'm not an engineering student so my advice would be lopsided, do take it at face value and make your own judgement.

We will talk about a few scenarios,
Case 1, No A-levels,
I think alternatives are pretty limited. Form 6, A-levels or other Pre-U courses at more affordable institutions. You can again aim towards Act.Sc. while doing those courses.

Case 2, A-levels or other Pre-U, but no scholarship for overseas degree
As you have mentioned, NTU and NUS are good alternatives. High government loan available. Though NUS offers twinning programme, there might be some issues you need to sort out beforehand, i.e. admission might be harder, and the funding of the two years in Aussie. NTU on the other hand, won't much of a burden if you take Sg government loan.

Apply to UTAR, UKM, UM or other local universities. Local universities do accept A-level qualifications. Some A-level students have in fact been accepted to UM actuarial sc., but I can't guarantee whether the chances of getting in are the same.

On quality wise, Utar, UM and UKM don't differ much. The path to fellowship depends much more on the student than the institution. Utar and UKM have students who take SOA papers at incredible rate. And UM does not lag too far either. So don't turn out the option on Utar, it's a reasonably viable path and as long as you persist, you'll turn out equal with your overseas counterparts.

Take the risk, do A-levels and apply to overseas unis. If you are accepted at an Ivy-league or equivalent institute, JPA will sponsor your studies (I hope I'm not wrong on this). And even if you don't want, certain universities do not charge tuition fees. Those with need-blind policy of admission usually are tuition free. Some European universities do not charge fees either. So do check them out. And don't give up on scholarships application while you do your A-levels.

Others
Actuarial sc. may be intimidating due to its exam oriented nature and various claims. But as with every other subject, it is as easy or as hard as you want it to be. I don't see law, medic, engineering or other professions easier than act. sc. Others can't tell you if you make it or not. Granted, there's still a lot of hard work but that what dreams and life are about.

One thing to note is before you choose a career or course, factor in the future working environments too. Engineering will be related to site or lab work depending on specialization while act. sc. will be constrained to an office cubicle (*Note rough generalization). So do think about it as well.

Still, if you were determined to pass professional exams, long hours or study are absolutely necessary. It can become unbearable especially once you start working. Dropping out halfway is not uncommon. If you want to know more, I suggest you visit www.actuarialoutpost.com (http://www.actuarialoutpost.com) and interact with the community there. There are many accounts on study life and challenges an actuarial student faces.

All the best.

[Nicholasng925]

Hi Smilehoe! Thanks a lot for giving me such an insightful reply in the thread. In fact, you have given me lots of useful informations about local institutions' actuarial programmes about their lecturers and the rate of students taking SOA papers, and I knew that UTAR actually have a few students who passed 6 SOA papers successfully. Most importantly, finally i knew that local universities(UM, UKM) do accept A-Levels students, although those who apply them by using A-Levels result might have slightly lower chance to get in.

About the NUS's twinning programme, I think you were referring to the Bachelor of Social Science(Actuarial Science) in collaboration with ANU. However, I prefer NTU more as like you have said, I shouldn't be facing much problem if i take Singapore Government's loan. However, I won't stop there just yet before trying out to research on US, Europe universities as you said, and maybe Australia universities too; And I do know that some of the US universities have need-blind policy and will grant some scholarships and financial aids to international students given the fact that their parents' monthly income does not exceed certain amount, which most of the medium income families in Malaysia probably won't exceed it. I think i have to start doing my researches and scholarship application while I do my A-Levels.

Yeah I do realise that Actuarial Science is indeed intimidating due to the exam oriented nature, but I just believe that I am able to do it, and hopefully i do. I totally agree that is what make up life and dreams! Oh, and I think i prefer office environment more than at the sites, factories or labs. In fact, I can sit at a particular place for hours, and even half a day, doing my studies or facing the computer! Opps~ :nuts

Lastly, I really want to thank you for introducing the actuarial forum to me, and I have registered it straightaway once i knew it from you. I don't know how to reply you, but only to say thank you for giving me so many useful information about actuarial science and most importantly clearing my questions and doubts. I really appreciate it, and thanks a lot. Good luck to you too! =)