Interracial Marriage

[masterof_none]

From Stop Malay/Bumi bashing thread :



yeah..race and skin colour is nothing..it's converting to being a muslim tht's a nightmare! Think of it.. parting with pork..no more bak kut teh.. I can bear with tht..but think of the dressing issue. I'd have to go "under-cover", no more tennis skirts/shorts and I can't run in baju kurung.How sad..so no way, no no , no how.. it's out of the question.



Yeah..race and skin colour is nothing..it's converting to being a muslim tht's a nightmare! Think of it.. parting with pork..no more bak kut teh.. I can bear with tht..but think of the dressing issue. I'd have to go "under-cover", no more tennis skirts/shorts and I can't run in baju kurung.How sad..so no way, no no , no how.. it's out of the question.


haha... thanks for saying that! don't forget fasting for a month too. for me, it's the effect on my diet that hurts most. that's because the dress code is still negotiable - there are muslims who don't tutup aurat, but as far as i know, none who eat pork. pork seems to be strictly taboo.
no offence to the muslims... it's just that i've grown up without these restrictions and find it unthinkable to adapt to them.



no offense..no offense..yet you are offending ppl...

care to read the research done elsewhere that prove pork contain more bad bacterias than any meat?why dont you pour a coke drink on the meat and see what happened..this was a reseach done at singapore.

well,if you love someone,go ahead marry that person.you dont need to be siti fatimah abdullah if you marry one,you can still opt to put ur family name.see,you dont know anything and pretend like knowing e'thing.and then saying,"no offense,no offense".


what you know is a superficial bias circulating you.might wanna throw them out.

am pretty sure there are so many non-muslims who converted islam and never have hard time with it.the problem is when you fail to differentiate between being a malay and a muslim.

and you might speak a different case when it comes to intermarriage kids.some only know one language you see.



To be honest i dont mind interracial marriage but i'll prefer marrying a nice malay girl from the kampungs. I've had to much experience with urban Malays,Chinese,indian. Ha Mat saleh is totally out of the question you gotta be insane.



Nice Malay girl from the kampung.. don't you think it's a delusion? *laughs* Sorry, sorry..
But there are urban non-Malays who are really nice..some whites are really nice too. Just meant 2 uh.. "enlighten" u. But nice kampung girl?..not materializing, then again .. just my humble point of view



To be honest i dont mind interracial marriage but i'll prefer marrying a nice malay girl from the kampungs.
good luck in finding one! :wink:


Please continue here .

[theT]

i just wonder why can't malaysia separate marriage from religion. Therefore a muslim can get married to a non-muslim ,at the same time, practising each other belief.

I might be skeptical, but change your belief in the basis of love? for me, religion is something we hold firm to, what we really believe in; and i don't think love for some mortal is enough to change that belief.

one might ask, what about the kid they gonna have. let the kid decide. even if the kid decided not to choose any religion of their parents, it's better than pretend to be belong to one religion.

religion is about belief. why pretend to believe something don't believe. Why do we need to force people to believe what we belief.

[gatecrasher]

i just wonder why can't malaysia separate marriage from religion. Therefore a muslim can get married to a non-muslim ,at the same time, practising each other belief.

I might be skeptical, but change your belief in the basis of love? for me, religion is something we hold firm to, what we really believe in; and i don't think love for some mortal is enough to change that belief.

one might ask, what about the kid they gonna have. let the kid decide. even if the kid decided not to choose any religion of their parents, it's better than pretend to be belong to one religion.

religion is about belief. why pretend to believe something don't believe. Why do we need to force people to believe what we belief.
how true!

[kucingbiru]

i just wonder why can't malaysia separate marriage from religion. Therefore a muslim can get married to a non-muslim ,at the same time, practising each other belief.



In malaysia, marriage (among muslims) is under Syariah court jurisdiction. by islamic marriage law, a muslim can't get married with a non-muslim.

but i think two non-muslims of different religions can still get married in malaysia right?


I might be skeptical, but change your belief in the basis of love? for me, religion is something we hold firm to, what we really believe in; and i don't think love for some mortal is enough to change that belief.


in islam, that's wrong. You embrace islam when u believe it whole heartedly, and u do it for the sake of God, not ur spouse.


religion is about belief. why pretend to believe something don't believe. Why do we need to force people to believe what we belief.

isn't marriage optional? if one doesnt wanna marry his partner because of religion, then dont marry. if real force is involved, i believe that's against the law.

look, u dont have to be a muslim if you dont want to be one. if that means that u can't marry ur partner, then forget about it. he/she can't force you. "Tidak ada paksaan memeluk Islam". falling in love with someone is ur choice. marrying him/her is your choice too. dont say that you're forced.

[gatecrasher]

looks like you're addressing both debbie and me. but what the heck...

care to read the research done elsewhere that prove pork contain more bad bacterias than any meat?why dont you pour a coke drink on the meat and see what happened..this was a reseach done at singapore.
no one said muslims are wrong not to eat pork. but we like its taste anyway.

well,if you love someone,go ahead marry that person.you dont need to be siti fatimah abdullah if you marry one,you can still opt to put ur family name.see,you dont know anything and pretend like knowing e'thing.and then saying,"no offense,no offense".
it wasn't the potential siti fatimah abdullah (debbie) who said 'no offence'.

the problem is when you fail to differentiate between being a malay and a muslim.
we were clearly discussing being a muslim:
yeah..race and skin colour is nothing..it's converting to being a muslim tht's a nightmare!
read our posts again, more carefully. you're missing the point.

cool it man! i wasn't attacking your religion. i was just saying that i wouldn't be able to adapt to some of its practices, not because they're wrong, but simply because of my personal taste.

on the other hand,
and you might speak a different case when it comes to intermarriage kids.some only know one language you see.
this i happen to agree

[phantom]

seriously i think malay dudes are hot. :lol: *just kiddin'*

well,it boils down to ur own taste.i used to say i dont want to marry certain race but right now,it is not happening the way i intended.so dont put fences on your way,you never know what you will end up with.

life is like a box of chocolate and you have to eat all of them.

[kucingbiru]

life is like a box of chocolate and you have to eat all of them..... to be fat :P

[deaf-knee]

..ahahha.

:)


[my laughter was directed at anything in particular. just that this thread provoked laughter. yeah :)]

[topdog]

while we're discussing intermarriages why don't we talk about apostasy as well? it's kinda making the rounds over at malaysiakini and screenshots right now...or perhaps it's too provocative...

anyone care to start a thread?;)

[deekay]

look, u dont have to be a muslim if you dont want to be one. if that means that u can't marry ur partner, then forget about it. he/she can't force you. "Tidak ada paksaan memeluk Islam". falling in love with someone is ur choice. marrying him/her is your choice too. dont say that you're forced.

Very true !

Too bad the Muslim partner can't change even though "tidak ada paksaan memeluk Islam". Maybe that is the crux of the problem ?

[theT]

in islam, that's wrong. You embrace islam when u believe it whole heartedly, and u do it for the sake of God, not ur spouse.


but most interracial marriage(which the spouse convert to Islam) I encounter, they convert just to get married. Not because they really want to be one.

[kucingbiru]

in islam, that's wrong. You embrace islam when u believe it whole heartedly, and u do it for the sake of God, not ur spouse.


but most interracial marriage(which the spouse convert to Islam) I encounter, they convert just to get married. Not because they really want to be one.

what i was trying to tell u is that Islam does not promote conversion just for the sake of marriage.

think about this. just because a lot of people do something that doesnt mean that that's the right thing to do right?

if one thinks that somebody has to be blamed that he/she had to convert to islam to get married, let the blame be on him/herself, because one has the right to decide whether to take it or leave it. you can't marry someone if he/she doesnt wanna marry u. again, u can't be forced to get married.

[kucingbiru]

look, u dont have to be a muslim if you dont want to be one. if that means that u can't marry ur partner, then forget about it. he/she can't force you. "Tidak ada paksaan memeluk Islam". falling in love with someone is ur choice. marrying him/her is your choice too. dont say that you're forced.

Very true !

Too bad the Muslim partner can't change even though "tidak ada paksaan memeluk Islam". Maybe that is the crux of the problem ?

just to make this thing clear, "tidak ada paksaan memeluk (to convert to) Islam"

[sanghanuman]

We can say anything we want (about not converting, not falling for Muslims etc.). But when it happens and the dilemma is in front of us, it's a whole new world.

Never say never.

[ElansarGelmir]

I think the converting urself to marry with a muslim only applies to certain countries like Malaysia. In some other countries, someone with one belief can marry with a muslim without converting himself/herself. Is this true?

and you might speak a different case when it comes to intermarriage kids.some only know one language you see.

Yeap, true, but u dun need to be a "mixed" to know more than one language. There's this ironic case of a friend of mine in Singapore... This girl (quite pretty, mainly coz she's mixed kua), her father is Chinese, her mother is an Indian, and she ended up taking Malay language coz she doesn't know the former 2.... So in the end, it doesn't matter whether who u are to speak more than 2 languages. It's the matter of interest.


We can say anything we want (about not converting, not falling for Muslims etc.). But when it happens and the dilemma is in front of us, it's a whole new world.

Never say never.

No thanks! I like my religion, i'm proud of it, and i'm dun want to convert to any other religions......

[Thirdshifter]

I think the converting urself to marry with a muslim only applies to certain countries like Malaysia. In some other countries, someone with one belief can marry with a muslim without converting himself/herself. Is this true?


The marriage between a Muslim and a christian is valid in USA and many other country only thing is its not valid in both religion. In Malaysia its not valid because Muslims are not allowed to change their Religion. Which ofcourse is unconstituional.

[sanghanuman]

We can say anything we want (about not converting, not falling for Muslims etc.). But when it happens and the dilemma is in front of us, it's a whole new world.

Never say never.


No thanks! I like my religion, i'm proud of it, and i'm dun want to convert to any other religions......

Of course.

[digimushu]

This dialogue does go back to the same issue of separation between church and state.

From our dear old rukunnegara...
'kepercayaan kepada Tuhan'

From the US 0.25$...
'in God we trust'

Problem is..Which God?

[abdullah]

From our dear old rukunnegara...
'kepercayaan kepada Tuhan'

From the US 0.25$...
'in God we trust'

Problem is..Which God?

It's the same God.

Call Him what you wish, Tuhan or God, Lord or Allah, Bhagwan or Kuan Yin.

To Him belong All the Beautiful-Best Names.

[digimushu]

Problem is, do we have any right to impose our beliefs on other people?

I'm not siding on any beliefs here. IMO, everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they choose. We can give other's an idea of what we believe but what gives us the right to impose what we believe in on others?

In the end, we still have to debate whether religion and state has to be separated. be in Christianity or Islam, religion has no place in how a country is run(no, i'm not advocating communism although marxim is tempting). has anyone else notices that star trek =communism?

hehehe
anyways, just my 2 cents

[debbie]

First, I didn't mean to offend.. merely stating my point of view.. humble POV, tht is. I'm really sorry and sincerely apologize to those who viewed my viewpoint as offensive. Phantom, I didn't mean yo lodge an attack on your believes. *shrugs*
And Gatecrasher, as much as I love you (as a fellow recommer, tht is).. I have to get this straight. I am NOT a "potential Siti Fatimah".. heaven forbid!!

[debbie]

ok, I re-read my posts on the interracial marriage issue and viewing it from a Malay/Muslims point of view, I must admit it was rather offensive. The food.. I'm not a pork fanatic; the clothes.. so sorry.. i know the malay fashion gods are frowning down on me cos i kinda "hit it" on the baju kurung; the "no way" on marrying a malay/ converting to Islam. *sigh*..
I understand.I would be mad at those comments if I were a malay/ muslim myself. My sicerest apologies to all.. especially Phantom. I didn't mean to, honest. Will try to be more sensitive next time.
Sorry.

[gatecrasher]

I am NOT a "potential Siti Fatimah".. heaven forbid!!
oops... logic error... just crapping there... sorry!

[debbie]

Doesn't matter.. I'm starting to have a feeling tht it's not entirely our fault. *grins* Some ppl are malcontent. er.. just joking..

[gonjeng]

..ahahha.

:)


[my laughter was directed at anything in particular. just that this thread provoked laughter. yeah :)]

hehehehe... i couldnt agree more. this thread goes from race to religion to even culture. uh uh not to forget, even the topic of being called 'siti fatimah' rose up. err... i hope there's no real life siti fatimah reading this, she may get offended :p

aiseh, this topic, ideally, should be discuss strictly objectively, rather than somewhat emotionally. nevertheless, i guess its hard to take it 'emotionless' since it is somewhat sensitive - by which, you dont just go to any kedai mamak and talk about it out loud :p ~heh~

anyway, just a few words... i am all for interracial marriage. ive read somewhere that there was a stats stating the children from this marriage is slightly brighter. cant give my resources though since this was some time back :) however, i disagree on becoming a muslim because of marriage. its not just about your lifestyle will change... heck, i dont even think changing one's lifestyle should be an issue to begin with. as much as most ppl hate changes, when the time comes, they change anyway :p rather it is more of a belief and responsibility. if you strongly believe you are on a right path and if you know your responsibility as a muslim, husband, etc. i believe (and i have witnessed) that those stuff you guys are talking about can be overcome somewhat easily :)

and uh uh, another key point to make... the more there is interracial marriage, the more will be pretty ladies out there. damn, ive never seen one children from these marriages who are not good looking or "lawa gile" muahahahha...

ohh well, enough said... ~peace out~

[debbie]

IT'S TRUE!! See, i'm mixed, and I'm bright! Hahaha.. so beh hiau ba.
Sorry 2 any Siti Fatimah reading this.. I dunno any other Malay names..^_^.

[kucingbiru]

There are a lot of Siti Fatimah out there. in fact, my aunt is Siti Fatimah. just not siti fatimah abdullah. :P

[Lancelot]

i just wonder why can't malaysia separate marriage from religion. Therefore a muslim can get married to a non-muslim ,at the same time, practising each other belief.

[Lancelot]

i just wonder why can't malaysia separate marriage from religion. Therefore a muslim can get married to a non-muslim ,at the same time, practising each other belief.

I know someone who is from Pakistan who has a Muslim father and a Jewish mother. Both of his parents keeps their own religion while he stays neutral.

Very interesting case to study.

[Daniel]

I am confused.... Izzit ilegal to change other religion for a muslim? If that is true, why indonesia allowed its muslim citizen to convert to other religion ? Can an indian muslim in malaysian convert to hindu?

[kucingbiru]

I am confused.... Izzit ilegal to change other religion for a muslim? If that is true, why indonesia allowed its muslim citizen to convert to other religion ? Can an indian muslim in malaysian convert to hindu?

it's the religion that forbids it. Malaysia chooses to implement "some" islamic laws, which include this thing.

Indonesia doesnt have such law maybe because they just dont want to follow such law, or, simply because they have different understanding. i'm not so sure.


i donno if a muslim can convert to other religions in malaysia. maybe not legally.

wait, are you people not happy that malaysia doesnt allow muslims to convert to other religions OR that Islam doesnt allow it?

[debbie]

Wait a minute.. Islam doesnt allow its followers to quit Islam & do a new religion rite? But I thought tht being a Muslim is out of free will. So why can't a Muslim switch religious goal posts? Tht means the "tidak ada paksaan" thingie is invalid. They ARE implying force.
Can change la... don't like tht. What if I .. (IF) fall in love with a Muslim and he loves me enough to switch to my religion? He can't rite?.. Gosh, so sad. Then we can't be together. *sob, sob*
Hehehe.. :wink:

[yekban81]

who said you can't be together. You may convert to his. Who knows sometimes love is blind...haha :lol:

[debbie]

Cannot la.. after I'd die .. so many things cannot do.^_^
Read my earlier posts.

[gonjeng]

Wait a minute.. Islam doesnt allow its followers to quit Islam & do a new religion rite? But I thought tht being a Muslim is out of free will. So why can't a Muslim switch religious goal posts? Tht means the "tidak ada paksaan" thingie is invalid. They ARE implying force.
Can change la... don't like tht. What if I .. (IF) fall in love with a Muslim and he loves me enough to switch to my religion? He can't rite?.. Gosh, so sad. Then we can't be together. *sob, sob*
Hehehe.. :wink:

aiseh... as far as the "tiada paksaan" in islam, ppl may have accidently misuse it. you cant just take that sentence per se and use it for arguments. nanti out of context :) what it means, to the best of my knowledge that is, there is no 'paksaan' in becoming a muslim but once you are in, you are IN. however, let say you are a muslim and you decide to ignore some of its teaching, or even go to the extreme of changing your religion to some other, yes, there's nothing to stop you from doing that. but do keep in mind that you are responsible for your action, which in this case your sins. in other words, your action is up to you to control but the consequences is not... well, sth like that laa :p



I am confused.... Izzit ilegal to change other religion for a muslim? If that is true, why indonesia allowed its muslim citizen to convert to other religion ? Can an indian muslim in malaysian convert to hindu?

islamically it is illegal. islam views it as a desease that might berjangkit to others. since prevention is better than cure, converting out of islam is prohibited. well there's more to this ruling but im not sure how deep should i get into :) plus i myself am not a scholar, just another typical malay dude 'sun-tanning' in florida, hehehe...

[gatecrasher]

I am confused.... Izzit ilegal to change other religion for a muslim? If that is true, why indonesia allowed its muslim citizen to convert to other religion ? Can an indian muslim in malaysian convert to hindu?

it's the religion that forbids it. Malaysia chooses to implement "some" islamic laws, which include this thing.

Indonesia doesnt have such law maybe because they just dont want to follow such law, or, simply because they have different understanding. i'm not so sure.
isn't it because indonesia's a secular country - that means it doesn't have govt-sponsored religious department, dual legal system etc.?

wait, are you people not happy that malaysia doesnt allow muslims to convert to other religions OR that Islam doesnt allow it?
if islam doesn't allow it but malaysia does, well then, there's no problem (with unhappy muslims being unable to convert), right?

[kucingbiru]

"tidak ada paksaan"

i did say in my earlier post that tidak ada paksaan to convert to islam. once you're in, you'll have to follow the law. when the govt says you can't drink, you can't drink. when the govt says you can't ponteng puasa, you can't.

[kucingbiru]

isn't it because indonesia's a secular country - that means it doesn't have govt-sponsored religious department, dual legal system etc.?
there u go.


if islam doesn't allow it but malaysia does, well then, there's no problem (with unhappy muslims being unable to convert), right?

exactly. wait, maybe that person will have a problem with his/her family. you'll never know.

[Thirdshifter]

The only solution to this issue is, Goverment should never be involved in any religion laws. Islam itself has few different sects and Malaysia has banned them and brand it Ajaran sesat.

We need to get rid of The Sharia and all the Islamic departments in the goverment.

[ElansarGelmir]

Errm... true, i think in Islam, it's violating its law to switch religion... But i think nowadays, many countries accept those who switch, except for Malaysia and some countries. In fact, in some countries, like what Lancelot has just said, allow the other spouse not to convert and keep his/her religion. I think it's the matter of the govt's policy. Yeah, govt shouldn't be influenced by religion in deciding its policies, much to say for a MULTI-RACIAL country like Malaysia, where (they claim) everyone's FREE to practice their faith and religion.

[kucingbiru]

the problem is Malaysia claims to be an Islamic country, and "tries" to be one. But Malaysia in the same time practices secularism. That's why there's a conflict between the constitution and the law being imposed.
the govt has to choose whether to be secular or Islamic. we can't be both.

[ElansarGelmir]

Malaysia was never an Islamic country until when PAS brought up the issue, and thanks to Dr. Ling Liong Sik who stated that Malaysia's an Islamic country. According to the perjanjian persekutuan, Islam is only Malaysia's official religion. Not that Malaysia's an Islamic country.

[kucingbiru]

but dont blame PAS. what, if PAS says that we have to be evil, will the BN govt change to be evil?

[__earth]

Malaysia was never an Islamic country until when PAS brought up the issue, and thanks to Dr. Ling Liong Sik who stated that Malaysia's an Islamic country. According to the perjanjian persekutuan, Islam is only Malaysia's official religion. Not that Malaysia's an Islamic country.

msia was never a secular country either.

[retroque]

i would consider msia as a semi secular country.

but lets get back to the topic...interracial marriage.we can always start a new thread .. whether msia is an islamic country or not ..if anyone is interested though.

[Daniel]

so that it mean all the muslim in the world cannot convert to other religion once they believed it. Even in United state too?

[Thirdshifter]

so that it mean all the muslim in the world cannot convert to other religion once they believed it. Even in United state too?

No, In Malaysia we have an Islamic Law that applies to Muslims only. Which ofcourse makes Malaysia an Islamic state for the majority but secular for the non-Muslims.

In USA there's no law that will not let you convert to any religion you choose, Just like how anychristians can convert to any religion they want in Malaysia.

[deekay]

Which basically says that in Malaysia, generally, interracial marriages between two people who are non-Muslim is fine and maybe we can make an analogy that it is a 2-way street.

If one of the intended spouses is Muslim, then it is generally a lorong sehala.

For a non-Muslim to marry a Muslim in Malaysia, there are consequences. One way to get around this is to get married in Singapore or Indonesia or London or US where there is no complusion for either party to "convert" for the sake of the marriage. Of course, after one takes this step (both Muslim and non-Muslim spouse), try to avoid to balik kampung as there are "consequences".

Can reverting to a more secular form of government/society obviate this contradiction ? Perhaps, but there will probably be a huge outcry from the mullahs and politicians.

Malaysia was fairly secular in the 60s and people seemed to get along better in multi racial relationships. Perhaps back then, the rakyat accepted that Malaysians have differences. Towards the 80s and 90s, somehow the chasm seems more political and the tendency is towards tolerance of differences rather than acceptance.

Marriage between two people is about accepting your partner unequivocally. Interracial marriages magnifies this acceptance even greater. Marriage, however, is not about tolerating your spouse !

[topdog]

well race-religion seem to be interconnected in malaysia's practice of islam.

in malaysia a malay is defined (ni the constitution, no less) as one who is a muslim, speaks malay and practices malay culture (or something to that tune, don't remember exactly).

therefore i think it is rather obvious that islam is a uniting force for the malays. if some malays were not muslim, then by the above definition, they would not be considered malay. ergo the malays would be fewer in number, and by extension, weaker politically.

conversely, anyone can become a malay by first embracing islam and adopting malay culture.

of course, i could be wrong. and i really have no problem with this arrangement if i'm right.

[kevinkhoo1986]

Ermm...... i wonder can a Singaporean Malay muslim can convert to christian or not? Just asking and no offence :?:

[gatecrasher]

i believe it is legal in the eyes of the state. but it is not recognized by islam, as clarified earlier by thirdshifter.

[kucingbiru]

Malaysia was fairly secular in the 60s and people seemed to get along better in multi racial relationships.

err, really?

[kucingbiru]

Ermm...... i wonder can a Singaporean Malay muslim can convert to christian or not? Just asking and no offence :?:

i'm not sure about that, but singapore does have Syariah Law.
http://www.syariahcourt.gov.sg/

[kevinkhoo1986]

Personally i felt that the older generation can get along with other races pretty well compare to the younger generations nowaday. My father have plenty of malay and indian friends. But right now in our generation, chinese will tend to have only chinese friends while malay will have only malay friends. Even myself did not have any close malay or indian friends. We could hardly find them mixing with each other anymore. Eventhough we could still find some of them mixing quite well together, but majority of it were from the former english school such as la salle, methodist school and etc. :cry:

[ElansarGelmir]

I'm interested in the consequences of those who did not convert after marrying a muslim spouse.... The Syariah Court will sue the fellow? Or he/she'll be stoned to death?

[kucingbiru]

I'm interested in the consequences of those who did not convert after marrying a muslim spouse.... The Syariah Court will sue the fellow? Or he/she'll be stoned to death?

i'm not sure about that. but the marriage is considered as invalid. thus one can be charged with "berzina". and from that i think it depends on the syariah law of a state. maybe fine. i'm not sure. but death punishment is beyond the power of syariah courts in malaysia.

but that stone to death thing is only applicable to a muslim.

[Ic3b3rg]

i think in the long run, one's religion should be one's personal choice. if he has faith in one religion and thinks that he has done something wrong by converting into another religion, then the guilt will haunt him for the rest of his life. why should we judge others? who can say that we are not as guilty as they are? hmm.... i think interracial marriage is very beautiful if it stands firm.... but sometimes the differences between the couple are too much to bear.... pity the children

[ElansarGelmir]

Err... does the federal law has anything against cohabitation? Hmm... if no, can non-muslims be caught berkhalwat (since they are not muslims and syariah law dun apply to them)... but some nont-muslim couples were caught and sent off by policemen when they were pat tor-ing in some park...

[deekay]

Maybe the cops thought that the Islamisation of all races in Malaysia had already begun :lol:

I do not believe that there is any federal law which makes cohabitation illegal. Khalwat is applicable to one sector of the population.

If cohabitation is illegal, better prepare for arranged marriage and forget about interacial ones.

[kucingbiru]

Maybe the cops thought that the Islamisation of all races in Malaysia had already begun :lol:


you talk as if Malaysia is planning on having Islamisation of all races.

[deekay]

Maybe the cops thought that the Islamisation of all races in Malaysia had already begun :lol:


you talk as if Malaysia is planning on having Islamisation of all races.

Perhaps I should have clarified that further like this :

Maybe the cops that made the arrests had their mistaken self interpretation that Islamic laws could be applied to people of all races in Malaysia, given the possibility that the judiciary could be swayed to acquiesce since Malaysia is claimed to be an "Islamic State" by no less than the Prime Minister of the day.

I withdraw the remark on Islamisation of all races. I meant application of Islamic law to the people of all races.

[kucingbiru]

I withdraw the remark on Islamisation of all races. I meant application of Islamic law to the people of all races.

yeah, maybe those policemen did. if that's true, that's so embarassing. they should have known better that it's only applicable to muslims, an Islamic state is not an excuse to 'Islamize" everybody.

[ElansarGelmir]

Funny... Even my schools also dun allow a guy and a girl to be in the same classroom... what if they need to stayback and help each other out in assignments? Going to the library is possible, but it takes a longer journey to travel to the library from the classroom.... I mean, the classroom's not tertutup..... and it's located somewhere along the busy block by the busy road....

[deekay]

Funny... Even my schools also dun allow a guy and a girl to be in the same classroom... what if they need to stayback and help each other out in assignments? Going to the library is possible, but it takes a longer journey to travel to the library from the classroom.... I mean, the classroom's not tertutup..... and it's located somewhere along the busy block by the busy road....

Presumably that is because it is either

(a) a Ministry directive
(b) a School directive
(c) someone of authority having an interpretation of either (a) or (b) and applying it thereon
(d) someone of authority having his/her own rules and applying it thereon

If it is neither of the above, you should be able to have consensual social intercourse and/or intellectual exchange with a member of the opposite sex in the classroom.

[ElansarGelmir]

It was some new rule which my seniors never heard of before... Maybe that's when the new headmaster came in.... Aduh!

[kevinkhoo1986]

My school do not allow the non-malay to wear short pants, sleeveless shirt. My former school even worsen, we have to pray each morning(to the allah) even you are not muslim, and there are hamper of jawi writings in my school. Thanks to our principal which is so islamic. Do we really need this kind of regulations in national schools? What about the feelings of the non-muslim students? I know that islam is national religion for malaysia but should it be that strict? For your information, 60% of the students in my former school are chinese students. And to be frankly, most of my fellow chinese and indian friends prefer the previous principal before this principal came to our school 2 years ago. :? I afraided that in the future, maybe the boys and girls are going to be seperated in my former school.

[gatecrasher]

My school do not allow the non-malay to wear short pants, sleeveless shirt.
you wanna hear about the UiTM dress code?
My former school even worsen, we have to pray each morning(to the allah) even you are not muslim, and there are hamper of jawi writings in my school.
what exactly did they make you do? *all ears*

[endoru]

Sigh.

I was educated in a kebangasaan school although I am a Chinese.
I believe I am a true Malaysian that the government wanted a child to be after the independence day.
Seriously, I don't feel the difference between the races.
I respect a religion as it is.

Every individual in Malaysia has the freedom to believe what they want to.
Yes, things may be stricter for the Muslims.

Hmmm.
It is not easy perhaps to throw away the term Malay, Chinese and Indian.
It is not easy perhaps to just say that we are a Malaysian.
That is how I feel in Malaysia itself.

But, once when we get out of the country, a Malay boy together with a Chinese boy and an Indian boy can say that "We are Malaysians" but sigh, why cannot we say that in Malaysia ?

Education system in school.
Is it that difficult to make a unified system due to races and religion ?
I think it is old-fashioned to make races and religion as reasons for such problems.

A person who thinks that a human is no different than another.
Hehe.
Peace !

[naturesimple]

once when we get out of the country, a Malay boy together with a Chinese boy and an Indian boy can say that "We are Malaysians" but sigh, why cannot we say that in Malaysia ?


steps to solve this probelms, any1?

[ElansarGelmir]

U need to be alone to face the world... get out of the comfort zone of Malaysia... that's when we are willing to put behind all our differences and come together as Malaysians to survive... Coz that's perhaps that's the only one thing we will have in common...

[gonjeng]

U need to be alone to face the world... get out of the comfort zone of Malaysia... that's when we are willing to put behind all our differences and come together as Malaysians to survive... Coz that's perhaps that's the only one thing we will have in common...

pretty much true. to the western countries, if you say you are chinese, ppl will think that you come from china. if you say you are indian, ppl will assume you come from india and if malay, they will say "say what?". but if you say you are malaysians, some of them will say sth about the twin towers, about langkawi, about kuala lumpur, about mahathir and even about islands and places ive never been to (although im getting very good at pretending i know all the places in malaysia :p). to the international communities, your race doesnt mean anything, not as much as your nationality. however, locally, IMO one typical way to distinguish/explain yourself to others is by defining your race. same thing with americans... in the states, he is black and she is white. but elsewhere outside US, they are americans (or if they are in mesia, they are all "mat saleh" hehehe...)

ntah, i personally dont see this as a problem or what not. IMHO, this is merely another habit/standard thinking of human beings, the 'desire' (or whatever you call that) to distinguish oneself from a large group, or to associate oneself to another smaller group :) so long as you dont adopt the "we-are-better/superior" behaviour, i dont see any harm :) but then again, this is just my another 2 cents :)

hmm, damn... never thought the psychology classes i took can become pretty handy here, hehehehehe...

~peace out~

[debbie]

Kevinkhoo1986.. your school's tht bad?! Whoa.. thanks for letting me know. Cos if ever I plan to do Form 6, I'll NEVER come to High School (your school, rite?). Don't fancy being morphed into the Muslim scene.
You know, for district sports events, all the Sekolah Agama participants wear long sleeved shirts, long pants, head scarves and all tht and it's really so weird and funny. For e.g. during this year's tennis MSSD, we all wore shirts and shorts (it's decent as we didn't wear our body hugging, lycra gear nor tennis skirts which are 'haram' to the officials) and when we saw the Malays in all their 'tutup aurat ' stuff.. we thought it hillarious. How to play? They lost in the 1st round. Same as MSSD volleyball .*sigh*. Why must they be like tht? So difficult to move...and the HEAT! Can't they shed their 'tutup aurat' thingies for even a day?

[gonjeng]

Kevinkhoo1986.. your school's tht bad?! Whoa.. thanks for letting me know. Cos if ever I plan to do Form 6, I'll NEVER come to High School (your school, rite?). Don't fancy being morphed into the Muslim scene.
You know, for district sports events, all the Sekolah Agama participants wear long sleeved shirts, long pants, head scarves and all tht and it's really so weird and funny. For e.g. during this year's tennis MSSD, we all wore shirts and shorts (it's decent as we didn't wear our body hugging, lycra gear nor tennis skirts which are 'haram' to the officials) and when we saw the Malays in all their 'tutup aurat ' stuff.. we thought it hillarious. How to play? They lost in the 1st round. Same as MSSD volleyball .*sigh*. Why must they be like tht? So difficult to move...and the HEAT! Can't they shed their 'tutup aurat' thingies for even a day?

aiseh, it is easy for you to say that when you dont believe what we believe. yes, they surely can "uncover" themselves for a day, in fact, for the rest of their lifes, if they want to... but then, that is if they see things the way you see things. now, assuming that they wore those willingly (for the sake of God), i bet they wouldnt mind bearing the heat as they knew the rewards are waiting in the hereafter :) to cut it short, some ppl may see them as being ridiculous and funny (you said), but they (may have) perceived their act of tutup aurat as obedient to the Lord.

~peace out~

[kevinkhoo1986]

Kevinkhoo1986.. your school's tht bad?! Whoa.. thanks for letting me know. Cos if ever I plan to do Form 6, I'll NEVER come to High School (your school, rite?). Don't fancy being morphed into the Muslim scene.
You know, for district sports events, all the Sekolah Agama participants wear long sleeved shirts, long pants, head scarves and all tht and it's really so weird and funny. For e.g. during this year's tennis MSSD, we all wore shirts and shorts (it's decent as we didn't wear our body hugging, lycra gear nor tennis skirts which are 'haram' to the officials) and when we saw the Malays in all their 'tutup aurat ' stuff.. we thought it hillarious. How to play? They lost in the 1st round. Same as MSSD volleyball .*sigh*. Why must they be like tht? So difficult to move...and the HEAT! Can't they shed their 'tutup aurat' thingies for even a day?

Ermm..... I mean my former school, not the current High School Klang.

[kevinkhoo1986]

My school do not allow the non-malay to wear short pants, sleeveless shirt.
you wanna hear about the UiTM dress code?
My former school even worsen, we have to pray each morning(to the allah) even you are not muslim, and there are hamper of jawi writings in my school.
what exactly did they make you do? *all ears*

huh? I dont get what you mean. In my former school, every morning we have to pray. There will be a muslim students went on the stage and started praying out loud with the speaker during morning assembly. :roll:

[kevinkhoo1986]

You know, for district sports events, all the Sekolah Agama participants wear long sleeved shirts, long pants, head scarves and all tht and it's really so weird and funny. For e.g. during this year's tennis MSSD, we all wore shirts and shorts (it's decent as we didn't wear our body hugging, lycra gear nor tennis skirts which are 'haram' to the officials) and when we saw the Malays in all their 'tutup aurat ' stuff.. we thought it hillarious. How to play? They lost in the 1st round. Same as MSSD volleyball .*sigh*. Why must they be like tht? So difficult to move...and the HEAT! Can't they shed their 'tutup aurat' thingies for even a day?

I do not care what they want to wear during sport's activities or any occasions for the muslim. But one thing for sure, i really dislike the way that some school banned the wearing of short pants and sleeveless shirt for the non-muslim. Perhaps they should just banned it for the muslim since this was illegal for them. I thought every races have the freedom to wear whatever they like. But of course, not too exposing. Few months ago, i have a friends who already graduated went back to my former school to join "campfire". She was asked to change her sleeveless shirt before she was allowed to enter the school compound by our dear principal. She was very angry and end up decided to go back. :(

[deekay]

Non-Muslims should respect the choices made by Muslims. If Muslims choose to wear attire for sports which may seem impractical, so be it.

This should not be an issue that is humuorous. However, people who choose to do so should not seek advantage, such as an extra cm or two in the long jump if the attire makes a mark shorter than the imprint of the foot OR in the high jump where the attire brushes against the bar and causes it to fall. Everyone competes on the same field and the same rules and regulations

On the flip side, the Islamic code should not be applicable to non-Muslims. Some examples have already been given in this thread.

We really have to be more secular in thought to achieve harmony amongst the races and religion is probably the largest barrier to interracial marriages.

[debbie]

*moans*..ok,ok,sorry..hit a sensitive nerve again. My apologies to deekay and those wearing according to the Islamic code. No offense meant. Just stating my humble point of view, which is, u guys stand a better chance of winning wearing less. :wink:

[gatecrasher]

huh? I dont get what you mean. In my former school, every morning we have to pray. There will be a muslim students went on the stage and started praying out loud with the speaker during morning assembly. :roll:
cheh... like this only is it? they didn't make you pray together right? biasalah... :) IIANM this is standard practice in malaysian schools.
they don't ask anything of you except to keep quiet. that's fine with me.

[kevinkhoo1986]

huh? I dont get what you mean. In my former school, every morning we have to pray. There will be a muslim students went on the stage and started praying out loud with the speaker during morning assembly. :roll:
cheh... like this only is it? they didn't make you pray together right? biasalah... :) IIANM this is standard practice in malaysian schools.
they don't ask anything of you except to keep quiet. that's fine with me.

Of course they were not going to force us to pray together. If that is case, the principal is going to face a serious problems. They just wanted us to bow our head along with the fellow muslim students and keep quiet. It is alright for me if this kind of practice did in religion school but it is not suitable to be practice in national school especially those national school with majority non-muslim. Ermm.... i do not think it is a standard practice in all the malaysian schools. My current school(form 6) do not have this kind of practice. In fact the MOE never request all the school to have compulasory praying session in the morning.

[gatecrasher]

ideally prayers shouldn't be held in non-religious-affiliated schools. but it's a small matter for non-muslims compared to having to obey the muslim dress code etc.
haiya... this talk bout school prayers in msia is goin nowhere.
don't care la...
we'd have a lot more to say on this issue if msia were a secular country. just too bad it isn't.

[SpRInG]

haha
Malaysia today become negara Islam, many thanks to Dr Mahathir boh... ops, i mean Tun Dr Mahathir...

before this, it wasn't a negara Islam at all....

[__earth]

what does prayer in the morning has to do with interracial marriage?

[kucingbiru]

what does prayer in the morning has to do with interracial marriage?

nothing :P

guys, move it to secularism.

[kucingbiru]

haha
Malaysia today become negara Islam, many thanks to Dr Mahathir boh... ops, i mean Tun Dr Mahathir...

before this, it wasn't a negara Islam at all....

are we really negara islam? or 1/2 islam 1/2 secular?

[gonjeng]

what does prayer in the morning has to do with interracial marriage?

err... you pray in the morning so that you'll get married with ppl from other races and religion in the afternoon??? hahahaha... :)

[debbie]

Not funny. :wink: Just straying off topic for a little jaunt. Not wrong.
Ok, back to interracial marriage....hmm.. other than me, who are the other recommers who're mixed? Let's see.. Jade, tensaispira.. who else?
Hah.. this proves tht kids frm interracial marriages are smart, unique and pretty. Cheers to interracial marriage. :D
So, if u get a chance, marry one frm another race.. if u want gorgeus kids..^_^.. like Jade, Kaoru and I!!

[kevinkhoo1986]

what does prayer in the morning has to do with interracial marriage?

Ops.... ok. I admitted that i am out of the topic :roll:

[kevinkhoo1986]

Anyway, most of the children where their parent are not the same races look more prettier and handsome which i found it unique. Look at the Malaysian Idol host(the girl). Aleya?? She looks very different from the typical Bumiputra. Her mother is chinese while her father.... not very sure about it.

[cmhang]

Are we a bit "off topic" here? I thought the topic is suppose to be inter-racial marriage? But from what I read, it's more abour religions??

Anyway, to me, we should respect others' religions, just as you want other ppl to respect YOUR religion. Praying in the morning? No one forces anyone to pray together with them. You just need to be quite (it's like showing respect). While they pray, you can also pray silently to your own God that you believe.

Some Christians pray before their meal.... and if you happened to join them, you TOO have to keep quite while they say grace. Isn't this the same thing?

[kevinkhoo1986]

Are we a bit "off topic" here? I thought the topic is suppose to be inter-racial marriage? But from what I read, it's more abour religions??

Anyway, to me, we should respect others' religions, just as you want other ppl to respect YOUR religion. Praying in the morning? No one forces anyone to pray together with them. You just need to be quite (it's like showing respect). While they pray, you can also pray silently to your own God that you believe.

Some Christians pray before their meal.... and if you happened to join them, you TOO have to keep quite while they say grace. Isn't this the same thing?

Well you are right that we should respect others religion. But sometime it should have certain limit so that the minority will not felt neglected. We certainly will not hope that one day in the future, the minority refused to go to national school. As far as we concerned, more and more non-bumi are sending their children to national type primary school because they felt the current national school are too islamic and so on. The latest census shows that only 10% of the national school students are non-bumi. How are we going to achieve racial intergration if all the students are seperated according to their races? :wink: Sorry.... Again i am talking something irrelevant to "interacial marriage".

[wpyeoh]

My secondary school had Muslim prayers at the end of every assembly. I don't find that really out of place, since it is a Muslim country, and it doesn't take very long. And there is nothing wrong in showing a bit of respect by keeping quiet.

As for the Muslims' attire for sports, I don't find anything wrong (again) with them wearing "menutup aurat" attire. It's their choice. But I must say that I don't like having the dress code imposed on non-Muslims as well. (But since shorts aren't allowed in my school, I've got used to playing ping pong in long pants, though NOT in long sleeves; that's just too hot)

I don't think we're really very much off-topic; inter-racial marriage is really close to the religion stuff. In inter-racial marriages, there might be a problem if one of the parties change religion just to get married. Then how is that person supposed to follow the religious rituals, etc in this religion? It's really hard...needs a lot of determination there.

[gatecrasher]

Well you are right that we should respect others religion. But sometime it should have certain limit so that the minority will not felt neglected. We certainly will not hope that one day in the future, the minority refused to go to national school. As far as we concerned, more and more non-bumi are sending their children to national type primary school because they felt the current national school are too islamic and so on. The latest census shows that only 10% of the national school students are non-bumi. How are we going to achieve racial intergration if all the students are seperated according to their races? :wink: Sorry.... Again i am talking something irrelevant to "interacial marriage".
there's also one more issue non-bumis have to consider before deciding where to school their kids, that is knowledge of their mother tongue. from what i have observed, it's often difficult for a non-bumi to gain a decent command of his mother tongue unless he has a very conducive home environment (ie everyone at home only speaks that language).
achieving racial integration is important, but so is preserving our cultural identity. it's sad that as things are, non-bumis have to choose between the two.

PS: sorry for digressing even further!

[ElansarGelmir]

Well, interracial marriage is B.E.A.UUuuuuutiful ... but should religion be a hindrance? Let's say 2 ppl from 2 different races are in love... However, because each of them holds firmly to their faith and religion, they can't get married to one another because neither one of them want to be converted to another religion.... Well, u guys may discuss the issue of tolerance and giving and taking; however are such sacrifices necessary? Why can't each individual remain in their religion which they choose to believe, and at the same time, get married with one another? The religion of the kids? Let the latter decide what is good for them...

[cmhang]

I agree with wpyeoh. Yeah... me too, I don't find anything wrong with all the practices here. They are not forcing you to do this and that.... we have our own rights. That is THEIR choice and you have your own choice....

Of course, I won't like it if they force us to do something.... but then again, it all depends on where you are at the moment.... Sometimes, we HAVE to follow rules (but I do agree that sometimes the "rules" are a bit "over-the-limit")

I guess it's up to each individuals to determine how much is too much... and of course, that will determine the level of acceptance and tolerance.

[kucingbiru]

Why can't each individual remain in their religion which they choose to believe, and at the same time, get married with one another?

because in some (if not all) religions, building and managing a family the way the religions require is a part of practicing the religions.

[gatecrasher]

Why can't each individual remain in their religion which they choose to believe, and at the same time, get married with one another?
that is only a problem if one of the partners' religion requires conversion of the spouse. otherwise, there's nothing to stop them, besides their families (haha this can be a big problem), perhaps.

[cmhang]

Well, interracial marriage is B.E.A.UUuuuuutiful ... but should religion be a hindrance? Let's say 2 ppl from 2 different races are in love... However, because each of them holds firmly to their faith and religion, they can't get married to one another because neither one of them want to be converted to another religion.... Well, u guys may discuss the issue of tolerance and giving and taking; however are such sacrifices necessary? Why can't each individual remain in their religion which they choose to believe, and at the same time, get married with one another? The religion of the kids? Let the latter decide what is good for them...

Hmm... anyone of you ever think of this? If one person really love the other, there's a fat chance that he/she will do any thing for her/him..... and that includes converting to another religion. If they can't solve this issue of converting or not converting.... I dun think they will get married after all.... coz they will be quarelling and fighting even BEFORE they get married. Getting married without solving this issue will only let the issue haunt them... and do you think they can stay together happily when they are forever arguing about this?

[endoru]

Love has the power to change anything.
I do not know how true this is because my love life is not as colorful as I wished it would be.

Since I am in an international surrounding right now, studying in a foreign land, there might be a possibility that I may fall in love in person who is not from where I am.
And again, there is a possibility that I may marry her.
Of course, it would be problematic if she were to stay like the other end of this earth and I stay in this end of this earth.
When she would feel lonely and want to see her family, it would not be easy then.
Religion wise ?
I plan or should I not say that, but yeah as a Christian, I guess I would need to at least try to find a spouse which is also a Christian.
This may sound all pre-planned and so but, yeah, to avoid my going-to-be spouse from facing any troubles.
There is a possibility as well, that I may marry a Muslim or a Hinduist or a Buddhist.

Well, in the end, how strong is love ?
I guess that is the key to solving such cases in interracial marriage. Oops, was I talking about international marriage ?
Ah ... same case though.
Haha.
Peace !

[ElansarGelmir]

There is a possibility as well, that I may marry a Muslim

and deny our Lord God?

[cmhang]

Love has the power to change anything.


I agree with that.

I guess if you are in that situation, where you have to make decisions between love, religion, and others, you will think things in a different prespective. Some might say "I'll never marry "momomo"..." but when the time comes... you might not be able to control yourself.

I have a friend, she's a Christian, but converted to Islam bcoz of marriage.... lots of us don't understand how she can do that... but she is very happy with her decision.

I guess by the time you made your decision to convert to another religion, you have already accepted the religion and its belief... (but of course, pls exclude those that accepted religion only to marry the other half.)

[wpyeoh]

If one person really love the other, there's a fat chance that he/she will do any thing for her/him..... and that includes converting to another religion.

That would mean converting just to get married...and if the marriage was a mistake (sorry about being pessimist here, I know not all cases are like that) that person would be stuck with a religion he/she doesn't believe in.

[pandaboy]

How strong is love? Love is very strong, it can make u do stupid things sometimes. That is why ppl say love is blind...as love makes ppl go blind. Most people cant think wisely when they are in love....they are willing to convert to different religion...and so on. But once their love ceases, problem arises. Reconverting....regretting... I just feel that converting to another religion because of love is not something wise to do... :roll:

[debbie]

To Elansar's "..and deny your Lord God."... NEVER. Not to the point of death. Giving up religion for one's spouse..sacrificial and something to marvel at in the eyes of mere humans. But think of it. God made you cos he loves you and this is how you repay his love? By turning your back on him?
My dad is an ex-Buddhist. My mum is a Christian and dad converted to Christianity. Am I contradicting myself? I should think not. Though I am a strong believer in the teachings of Jesus, I don't go to church , my parents do. I asked my father if he wuold have been a christian if not for my mum and he said, regardless of person, he would still turn to Christianity... not cos he wanted to please mum. I am of mixed parentage and culture, so I'm in the middle of everything. Both my parents are first generation M'sians which means both my paternal & maternal grandparents grew up in their respective countries. My parents never forced me to follow their respective cultures. I kinda picked and chose what I wanted.
I turned out choosing Christianity , although not an avid church goer and although i dont mingle with other Cristians my age, I am faithful to my believe to the point of death..not tht i have been threatened, but I am staunch as I owe my success to God.
As for culture... I love the food on both sides. :D It's wonderful having the best of both worlds. The clothes.. ah! I look bad in both traditional costumes.Hahaha. Life is great. *smug smile*
I think we should all love ourselves more than our spouses so don't, unless you really are sure of it, give up your believe for love. Remember..God first loved you.[/quote]

[ElansarGelmir]

I was questioning Endoru, not myself... LOL! u got the wrong peep, debbie :D

Yeah, ur case is somewhat like mine, but a little different... My mom's a christian, and my dad, well, when they got married, he's still a buddhist... (dunno how come it can turn out this way, dun ask me)... And when we (my siblings and i) were young, my dad always wrote in any documents that we were buddhist, which is not really a problem since i haven't met God that time... And yeah, my mom always send us to Sunday School, and we really had fun there... And I met God in Form 2, in a Bible Camp... It's a real fascinating and euphoric moment (cried i did)... Ok ok, digress....

Now, my dad starts reading the Bible and even pray! Wow, though he still hasn't declare his faith in Christ, but i think he's growing nearer to the Lord everyday... Thank God for that.... :D

I think what we need is exposure to the religion... Merely converting for love won't make ur faith strong.... and yeah, like what pandaboy had said, if love ceases, then u will have spates and spates of problem.... Believe me, u convert to that religion is for the LOVE of the God, not for the LOVE of a man/woman.

[kevinkhoo1986]

To Elansar's "..and deny your Lord God."... NEVER. Not to the point of death. Giving up religion for one's spouse..sacrificial and something to marvel at in the eyes of mere humans. But think of it. God made you cos he loves you and this is how you repay his love? By turning your back on him?
My dad is an ex-Buddhist. My mum is a Christian and dad converted to Christianity. Am I contradicting myself? I should think not. Though I am a strong believer in the teachings of Jesus, I don't go to church , my parents do. I asked my father if he wuold have been a christian if not for my mum and he said, regardless of person, he would still turn to Christianity... not cos he wanted to please mum. I am of mixed parentage and culture, so I'm in the middle of everything. Both my parents are first generation M'sians which means both my paternal & maternal grandparents grew up in their respective countries. My parents never forced me to follow their respective cultures. I kinda picked and chose what I wanted.
I turned out choosing Christianity , although not an avid church goer and although i dont mingle with other Cristians my age, I am faithful to my believe to the point of death..not tht i have been threatened, but I am staunch as I owe my success to God.
As for culture... I love the food on both sides. :D It's wonderful having the best of both worlds. The clothes.. ah! I look bad in both traditional costumes.Hahaha. Life is great. *smug smile*
I think we should all love ourselves more than our spouses so don't, unless you really are sure of it, give up your believe for love. Remember..God first loved you.[/quote]

Well, as for me. My father is a christian while my mother is a buddhist. I used to go to church every sunday in the past but i have stopped attending church since i was in form 2. Right now, I will only go to church when there is an important occasion like christmas day or good friday. Sometime i do follow my mother to go to buddhist's temple to pray. I think i am 65% christian and 35%buddhist.

[debbie]

Make up your mind, dear. There's no in betweens in Christianity.
Dont get defensive... I understand being " in the middle". :D
Well , at least you're not an atheist and you're fair to both your parents. If it were me, I'd choose one religion .. everything has to be clear cut. You cant be in the light and dark at the same time.
I'm one weird thing as although I am Christian, as earlier said, I dont celebrate Christmas.. it's just personally irrelevant to me..although my family does.It's one of the things about being mixed. But guess what? I enjoy getting the presents. ^_^ So we're both opposites. Fair .
Yes, yes..straying off topic....sorry.

[endoru]

Deny God our Lord ?

Haha.
No human can say who is the real Lord.
To me, religion is a like a set of principles to make sure I walk on th right track.
I am a Christian but, at the same time, I question it as well.
No one in here or out there in the world who could give me a satisfying answer to the existence of God.
But, I believe in it.
Why ?
No reasons why.

Well, yes, I would deny Christianity if I think I need to.
Why?
First of all, we are all human.
Human is no different from each other.
That is what I am very clear about.
So, if religion were to ask me to go and kill or do something I don't want to, I would deny it.
I would also deny it if the believers are trying to change it into their own ways.

So, about this religion talk and about how it would bother a couple from not marrying or stop each other from loving, I think it is rather ridiculous.
A man and woman should be able to love each other no matter the differences they have in between.

Any more comments on this ?
I'm very interested.
Hehe.
Peace !

[endoru]

Since everyone talking about how they turned into what they believe now, let me share mine as well.

I came to know the Lord (Christians would know this) when I was back in Primary school. My English teacher is a Catholic and I used to go for mass at her place on Thursday nights. But, I was not baptized or anything like that and my parents were not saying no. They believed in nothing or should I say they were "Buddhist" or "Taoist" so to say.

Then, we moved from Shah Alam to KL.
Yeah, my primary school SRK Raja Muda in Shah Alam and then we moved to a new place in Bandar Sri Damansara and that is when I did go to church frequently.
It was filled with fun and made me felt very accepted because at the new secondary school, I was bullied every single day of my life and attending church itself eased this hurt heart of mine.
Well, then came along my sister.
Then, came Mom.
Then, came Dad.
We all got baptized (water baptism) when I was 15.
And that is how everything started.

I began to question about religion properly when I came to Japan.
Yes, I back-slided (a term in Christianity) so to say but everything still remain in this heart of mine.
There are many reasons why but I don't feel like sharing that.
What I can say is that ... after looking at the war in Iraq and the terrorism in many countries, I say, if men were to hate each other so much due to religion, I rather not have one.

I now believe in what I believe.
Partly what the bible has taught me so far.
Partly from the life I have walked so far.
Partly from what I see happening in the world.
All human is equal. (minusing status and wealth)
So, no matter what it is, all I hope for is a peaceful world !
Peace !

[cmhang]

To me, religion is a like a set of principles to make sure I walk on th right track.


Yeah... me too! :) Seems like there's a lot of Christians that don't go to church in ReCom huh?? I'm also one of them. :oops:

IMHO, what's really important is not the question of you going to church or not, but the question of weather you really HAVE the Lord God in your heart. Going to church does not guarantee that the person is good. A person might go to church every Sunday and join other church activities, but then, he might be stealing things and breaking the laws here and there!

To me, having the Lord God in my heart, is to ensure that I will always, like what Endoru said, walk on the right track.

He is there in my heart to remind me not to do bad things.
He is the one that I will always turn to no matter when I'm sad or when I am happy.
He is the one that I search for comfort when I'm down, when I'm depressed....
HE is the one that I share everything with.

Give thanks!

oops... I think I'm straying off topic again. :p Sorry! :wink:

[endoru]

Perhaps it is because of those people who are attending church.
There are those people in church which makes you question about the point of attending church or being a Christian itself.
Haha, speaking from experience.

Yeah, as long that you have HIM (the one you believe) in your heart then you are on your way to live a good decent life.

Hehe.
Peace !

[ElansarGelmir]

Sometime i do follow my mother to go to buddhist's temple to pray. I think i am 65% christian and 35%buddhist.

Seems like there's a lot of Christians that don't go to church in ReCom huh?? I'm also one of them

Errr... a question to u fellas... did u all accept Christ? When was it? I'm trying my best not to put it in an offensive manner, but those who are born in a Christian family are not Christians until they have accepted Christ.... and accepting Christ != baptism... In fact, the most important thing is Accepting Christ, not Baptism.... err... this thread is not approppriate to elaborate....


Well, yes, I would deny Christianity if I think I need to.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.


I have no right to justify u guys or lecture u guys on this, coz i'm a lukewarm christian myself, so i refrain from talking further :oops:

ok, we are digressing... we can talk about this somewhere....

[endoru]

Yes, my answer is Yes.
I know all the rules and I know what is being told in churches.
And I know how it goes as well.

Well, we are disgressing but I guess such talks would come naturally when you talk about interracial marriage.
No point making another new topic to "preach" on us who you think not having enough faith or do not know the Bible well enough.
As for me, I do read the Bible but I guess I have my right to question and to think what I think.

Don't bring in preaching.
I mean everyone is here to only share what they think.
Hehe.
No hard feelings.
Peace !

[ElansarGelmir]

as what i had said, i am in no place to tell u what to do... that's why i'm not preaching... and as what u say, peace....

[endoru]

Peace !
The most ideal word where the whole world is trying to achieve.
But, too ideal.
Well, as an individual on this earth, I will do my best to promote "peace" in the world.
Even saying "no" to religion, as an example.
Cos there are too many of those wars and terrorism which involves religion.

Sigh.
When can there be a perfect peaceful world ?
Sometimes, I feel real dumb complaining about my life although there is another person, same age as I am, not getting even a percent of what I own.
What do you guys think of this ?