Scholarship holder who should not get the scholarship.

[windy_city]

What actions do you guys think is appropriate for a scholarship holder who has a suck grade and cheat in exam. I felt so embarrass when a Malaysian is doing such a thing in university level, not to mention that person is a scholar some more. Hai, disappointing. :oops: :(

[digimushu]

Wah...define cheating..please?

[windy_city]

cheating as in cheating in exams and quizzes. For example, looking around for answer using "long neck" technique.

[digimushu]

u mean copying from others?

[windy_city]

ya, copy from others.

[digimushu]

Wah.. very daring kid ar...
tsk tsk...
yeah...dishonesty sux..you are basically cheating yourself when you cheat..haii..maybe he/she/it is desperate?

[windy_city]

Wah.. very daring kid ar...
tsk tsk...
yeah...dishonesty sux..you are basically cheating yourself when you cheat..haii..maybe he/she/it is desperate?

Or at least try to copy for so many times, that the TA and profs begin to get suspicious till they come up with a warning. The thing is, the TA and Profs here are so relax when they regulated an exams or quizzes. When they suspected something and gave out a warning, this means that the cheating practice has been going on for sometime (and the TA did mention that he saw it for quite sometime already). Talking about spreading the good name about Malaysia, this Malaysian scholar is really giving an ?eye opening experience? for the Profs and TAs about Malaysians. That person showed them how "desperate" a Malaysian can be.Hai.

Desperate is only an excuse, plus it should not be an excuse anymore when a person cheat for so many times. I would rather fail than cheat in an exam.

[digimushu]

Wah.. very daring kid ar...
tsk tsk...
yeah...dishonesty sux..you are basically cheating yourself when you cheat..haii..maybe he/she/it is desperate?

Or at least try to copy for so many times, that the TA and profs begin to get suspicious till they come up with a warning. The thing is, the TA and Profs here are so relax when they regulated an exams or quizzes. When they suspected something and gave out a warning, this means that the cheating practice has been going on for sometime (and the TA did mention that he saw it for quite sometime already). Talking about spreading the good name about Malaysia, this Malaysian scholar is really giving an ?eye opening experience? for the Profs and TAs about Malaysians. That person showed them how "desperate" a Malaysian can be.Hai.

Desperate is only an excuse, plus it should not be an excuse anymore when a person cheat for so many times. I would rather fail than cheat in an exam.

True True...sad to hear that there are Malaysians who do that instead of trying to talk to the prof and do extra credit to get back the points..

[windy_city]

Our government thinks that all scholars are Malaysia's best brains who deserved the coveted scholarships (from the people money) to study and gain knowledge to help develop a better Malaysia. But this incident showed that some of our money has been put into ?good? use.

I called this ?memalukan bangsa dan negara?!!

Hmm...it is my understanding that the GPA expectation for JPA scholars is pretty low, right? Do you know what that is?

[windy_city]

Hmm...it is my understanding that the GPA expectation for JPA scholars is pretty low, right? Do you know what that is?

I think it is 3.0 if I remember correctly.
But anyway, I dun think that they send students back even when the students get CGPA lower than 3.0.

[topdog]

i think it's more like 2.5....but i could be wrong.

you basically have to be the laziest fool in the world and fail all your classes for jpa to haul your ass home.

[gal_flower]

tads really embarassing!!! :roll:
scholars who do not act like scholars...tsk tsk...

[gatecrasher]

at the psycho camp intan liana told us they would be terminating the scholarship of this student at UW Madison because she changed her major without first asking jpa's permission.
and she was doing well!
intan herself said it: "memanglah result dia bagus, tapi..."
see the way they spend money?

anyway anyone knows of the case?

[janewai]

Hmm...it is my understanding that the GPA expectation for JPA scholars is pretty low, right? Do you know what that is?

I think it is 3.0 if I remember correctly.
But anyway, I dun think that they send students back even when the students get CGPA lower than 3.0.

as what i know it should be 2.5.
i agree with you that they wont send students back even the students get lower than what they want.
i saw some of my seniors as example here in korea, they even allowed the student to extend one year more to complete thier study!! as what i heard too, the student recieved warning letters from JPA before, but it is nothing. :roll:

[chenchow]

I would say that if any student tries to cheat, the scholarship should be terminated. (Full Stop).

Just one question, isn't it the exams are supposed to be open books? Maybe because I am used to open books exam.

I definitely feel that JPA should be stricter in maintaining the quality of its scholars.

However, JPA is pretty high in requirement in terms of going for master (3.75), so I believe that would be the target aimed by Malaysians who hope to further studies.

In fact, if you look at Singaporeans, there is a Singaporean here in Cornell with 2.+ CGPA, and he/she is under PSC Singapore too... As long as they don't intend to go for master, it is fine under Singapore government.

Windy_city, may be you can approach him/her, and try to talk some sense into him/her.

[phantom]

hmm,copying urgh?

my prepatory lecturer once said,in UM,e'body copied e'body during quizzes.

though that i never copy in my entire life.it's fine if i dont get an A than copying and get an A.

to be honest,i know ppl are copying me during exams.i dont care.seriously i dont.i know it's bad.

once,i even allowed someone to copy me becoz he sux in that course.i even used BM so that the TA wont understand.come to think about it,americans copy too,except they were rich enough to buy a formula sheet that have 4 past semester papers printed on that sheet.

i dont mind ppl copying me.just be an expert in copying.not only malaysian lah,almost all asians copy others.

should their scholarship being terminated?dont know.asked JPA.

though JPA's cut off point is low,who will you give you a well-paid job with a 2.8 cgpa?i know certain students being kicked off from uni of minnesota becoz the uni terminated them.


perhaps malaysian can excel in spm.but when it's 93% to get an A and 70% to pass (NO CURVE WOKAY)..then it's a bit harder to some.

[kucingbiru]

i think a little cheating is ok. just dont cheat on everything. hay, cheating makes u smart u know. you've got to be elusive.

[digimushu]

IMHO, if a student just uses a good allowable cheetsheet, chances are, he/she is good enough already. IF he/she/it goes to an exam and assume that it is 'open neighbour', that is bad. Exams can be open book, open notes, open brain but never open neighbour.
:D

[theT]

there's a reason why some people cheats in the exam.

one of the factor: the person is EXPECTED to get a good grade

second: the person seeks the thrills of it

last but not least: the person is just LAZY

i used to cheat a lot back in high school days, because of the combination of three but usually it was always the 2nd and 3rd.

but I don't think a person should cheat in college-level especially for upper level course.

[windy_city]

Cheating is always bad, everybody know that.
If a person is desperate and needed to "take a peak" from the neighbors, I am ok with that. The thing is when a person does that for so many times, until the TAs and Profs got suspicious, that is just too much.

Everybody can come up with tones of reason to cheat, but come one the only REAL reason people cheat is: really lazy and expected to get good grades without working for it.

In the case I mentioned, this person always performed "open neighbor" techniques during quizzes and exams. It became so evident that the TA and Prof had to give out warning.

[ElansarGelmir]

i think a little cheating is ok. just dont cheat on everything. hay, cheating makes u smart u know. you've got to be elusive.

Yeah... if everyone's happy, then fine lor... as long as it's not some big internal exams..... small quizzes that will help a little in ur GPA shouldn't be a problem... If you can cheat without getting caught, u are smart. In that case, the one that Windy_City was babbling about is definitely not good in both his academic and cheating! must got skill one... hehe


i dont mind ppl copying me.

yeah, but i mind when u are caught with the fellow.... dah lah tak tau copy, then pull u into the water.... hahaha.... If i can help that fellow, sure help one... i mean, one or two lar... not the whole paper....

[gal_flower]

copying is not right in all occasions, but i do think that it's excusable sometimes...most ppl do it sometime somewhere...but tad person's attitude towards copying is like expecting good grades served on a silver platter without needing to work...tads bad...

if ppl want to copy my paper, let them try hard to get it...i might help...one questions or two, like elansar said...but the whole paper? forget it...i didn't study hard for ntg...

[janewai]

what so bothering if others cheating in the exam or quiz...
they are same with everyone of us want to grad with distinctions....
but so what if grad with distinction by cheating yet get nothing and wasting the 4 years university life.
that's thier choice... they wont get any knowledge other than cheating.
after grad once got to work, most properly they will kantoi.

[gatecrasher]

i know someone who actually didn't study for an exam, expecting to receive free answers for the whole paper. that's why i had to "help" her with her assignment. :lol:
i hope she passes, if only so that i don't get bugged again. but then again, it will be much harder for her to do so in the future.
that's the thing about people cheating (and failing to do so!). it can be troublesome for those helping the cheater.
but of course, small-time cheat which doesn't hurt me - what the heck la! :wink:

[windy_city]

[quote="ElansarGelmir"]Yeah... if everyone's happy, then fine lor... as long as it's not some big internal exams..... small quizzes that will help a little in ur GPA shouldn't be a problem... If you can cheat without getting caught, u are smart.[quote]

Small quizzes usually will not help at all in raising your cgpa. It is cumulative grade point average. (One A and B will make a different of maybe 3 point in your gpa, add up all and divide by all the credit hours, you will get minute difference for doing good in quizzes.

Anyway, I dun mind helping people (let them copy), I admit I do let people copy sometime, but there is a limit to that. And when the cheating becomes so evident, there is a big problem, especially when you are holding a scholarship and carrying the name of your country with you.

[pandaboy]

As for me, I think cheating is cheating. It's just like killing. One can kill for a good reason (say, for self-protection) but still he will be charged for "membunuh dengan niat" rite? Sorry..cant find the English term for it... ^_^

I think this kind of ppl really dont deserved the scholarship. This will not only spoilt their own name, but also their sponsors. Their scholarships should be terminated if they are really guilty of doing so...sponsors dont pay few hundred k's for them to learn how to cheat rite?

To others, I would like to advice u not to help ur fren cheat or let him copy ur work. U might take that as a help from a fren ...but u didnt know that u're actually spoiling ur fren. Make him learn how to stand on his own feet...Besides..being a sponsored student (supposed to be the creme de la creme) why would he need to copy others? I'm disappointed too. Wasting taxpayers' money.

[ElansarGelmir]

yeah, i know what u mean... sometimes, some ppl just do not bother trying hard, and depend totally on cheating.... and they keep doing that... those ppl worth the bashing.... if u think u can pass the exams without studying, then dun study lar... but dun cheat!

[jiinjoo]

Actually I find it weird that "cheating" and "scholarship" are tied together. For the record, I'm against cheating in the sense of copying other's answers during exams or other similar dishonest disrecpectful behavior.

The contradiction that I find in the arguments is that firstly, no one actually defined what makes a good "scholar". I don't think that one of the criteria of getting a scholarship is that you never cheated in your life. Come to think of it, many scholars are scholars simply because they have a sharper mind and knows how to cheat their way through life, taking shortcuts and turning everything to their advantage. So isn't it just normal that you might see one or two dishonest scholars who would cross the line and cheat during an exam? It keeps them in the ranks don't you think?

Let me suggest a different scenario that involves myself. I admit that especially during my high school years I didn't do a lot of my homework myself. One of it was our lab reports. A small fraction of students in the class (sometimes as bad as only 1) will actually write out the report, and the rest of the class will borrow that to be copied, inventing some numbers that works with the equation and hand it up. Since the report is to follow a fixed format and rules, it's hard to tell if the students actually did the report themselves. The teachers don't care, hence we the students fool around with our science labs (I in particular usually skip it and went to the band room, that's besides the point).

Do me and my classmates, who cheated through our homeworks, deserve rewards like being top student or being given book prize or geting scholarships? No one knows if the original producer of the work actually got acknowledged or not - but I'm sure some who didn't do the work and just blatantly copy others did get rewarded. If this is OK, then where would you draw the line? From all the previous post, it seems like a personal matter to which what's cheating (the bad kind) and what is not. Then how can you say the people who stretch their neck is cheating? Perhaps tey draw the line differently? Maybe to them they are really just "comparing answers"?

One sad incident we had 3 years back in CMU with the singaporeans (mostly scholars, in the very same way) was an article written in the newspapers about an alleged "Singaporean V". I like to make this an example (not to say that they actually did it, coz later the author apologized for making such vast generalization against a nation of people) because it shows a few points. What is Singaporean V? I bet you probably can imagine, especialy if you've taken an exam in a lecture theater before. The best student or two will be sitting in front and the rest of the weaker students will be sitting in a V shape, or diamond shape behind the better students so that they can copy their answers. Today we know that they did sit in a somewhat continuous shape, because that class simply had too many (some 10% of class) Singaporeans, but was it just to support one another or copy answers we don' t know. But the important question is this: why did that make it into the news? Why is anyone so angry with them that led the person to write an article to the school?

So what makes you start this thread?

:mrgreen:

[wpyeoh]

I think anyone who has to cheat to get through an exam doesn't deserve a scholarship. It's a shame that scholarship holders have stooped to this level. Maybe it's also because of the selection; there are so many people getting A1s and scholarships that you wonder whether it's really worth anything.

[windy_city]

Cause I just think that cheating so many times and so obviously is wrong, especially when you have extra responsibilities than others. With the scholarship, come responsibilities too. And it you are suggesting that I am angry cause the person pull up the curve or sth (I dun really understand what is the meaning behind your last post), you misunderstood me. I dun care that the person will pull up or pull down the curve, as long as I do my work; I know I will be fine. Just that when the TA the told some Malaysians to go and ?talk? to that person to behave in the exam that frustrated me. This leaves a bad impression on Malaysians.
I know that we cannot stop people from generalizing but we can prevent them from having an excuse to do so. Especially when you are on a ?people money? scholarship, you have more responsibility to prevent others from making a bad generalization on your country.

maybe this thread will serve as a warning and make people who read this think twice before they want to cheat.

[pandaboy]

Recently, I felt so angry of ppl who cheated la. Maybe bcos of the taiwan drama i watched recently...hehe :mrgreen:

Let's say la....a person cheat...(doesnt matter how u define cheat - good or bad)....and managed to obtained "happiness" or "success"....will the person actually felt bad or regret or something like that? Wont he feel guilty about it? Isnt it like a burden to him that he has to carry throughout his life?

We should avoid cheating la...regardless of whether that person is a sponsored student or not... But being a sponsored student just making situation worse rite?

Anyway, I do agree with windy_city. Hope this thread will serve as a warning to those who wants to cheat. :wink: Think twice! Or thrice!

[jagganatha]

Agree agree.. if you fail.. fail with honor.. if you pass pass with honor.. no cheating my man..

[ElansarGelmir]

I agree with Jin Joo... However, i dun think it would be easy to draw an accurate line which defines cheating..... What is right to us could be wrong to others....

Though i believe it's wrong (partly because we are brought up with that mindset), it doesn't matter to me if someone cheats a few times (as in a few questions, not the entire paper).... As long as he can pass his exams, then why not? But if cheats to get an award, that's a NO NO....

Put it this way... if u know a friend of urs who struggled very hard in his studies, studied day and night, and (he's not that brilliant) in the test, he still can't solve most of the questions.... Let's say while everyone's still struggling with their tests, u (the brilliant one) finished ur test much earlier and u so happened to sit beside him, and u ter-glanced his answers and saw that they are wrong.... Will u advice him to recheck his answers? Is that helping him to cheat, or merely giving him a second chance?

Windy_city, did the guy/gal study for his exam? I dun think so lor... and since he/she's been surviving in the uni through cheating, I also feel that he/she deserves the scholarship to be terminated. Should JPA know about this?

[windy_city]

I agree with Jin Joo... However, i dun think it would be easy to draw an accurate line which defines cheating..... What is right to us could be wrong to others....

Though i believe it's wrong (partly because we are brought up with that mindset), it doesn't matter to me if someone cheats a few times (as in a few questions, not the entire paper).... As long as he can pass his exams, then why not? But if cheats to get an award, that's a NO NO....

Put it this way... if u know a friend of urs who struggled very hard in his studies, studied day and night, and (he's not that brilliant) in the test, he still can't solve most of the questions.... Let's say while everyone's still struggling with their tests, u (the brilliant one) finished ur test much earlier and u so happened to sit beside him, and u ter-glanced his answers and saw that they are wrong.... Will u advice him to recheck his answers? Is that helping him to cheat, or merely giving him a second chance?

Windy_city, did the guy/gal study for his exam? I dun think so lor... and since he/she's been surviving in the uni through cheating, I also feel that he/she deserves the scholarship to be terminated. Should JPA know about this?

Not my call. I dun think I can make decision like this. I can only say that others deserve the scholarship more than that person does.
Anyway, the person knows that his/her secret is known to everybody. Hope the person can change before it is too late. Because the school will kick a person out based on academic dishonesty. It all depends on whether the lecturer wants to be harsh or not. A person cannot be lucky all the time. All the best for that person, the only person that can save him/her is herself/himself. Hope that he/she can "wake up" soon.

[pandaboy]

Put it this way... if u know a friend of urs who struggled very hard in his studies, studied day and night, and (he's not that brilliant) in the test, he still can't solve most of the questions.... Let's say while everyone's still struggling with their tests, u (the brilliant one) finished ur test much earlier and u so happened to sit beside him, and u ter-glanced his answers and saw that they are wrong.... Will u advice him to recheck his answers? Is that helping him to cheat, or merely giving him a second chance?

Just giving my opinions la. But before that, we are not supposed to talk to each other during exams rite? So, how can we advice the poor person?

Ok..if I'm the guy... I wont advice him. First, the invigilators will think u r trying to cheat... So instead of trying to help ur fren... u may need help urself to prove u r innocent.

Secondly, giving him second chance? We are not in the position to give him the second chance rite? If he really did study hard...but did not pass the test... at least...u(as the brilliant one) can advice him to change his method of studying, help him find out his own mistake and so on. There are other methods of helping him, or like wat u said...second chance. For me, helping a fren during exam is not a good way to help a fren. If we really wanna do a friend's part... we can always help before exam... u know..like giving him some tips or stuffs like that. But helping during exam is a definite no-no for me. ^_^

Btw, I realised many ppl study day and night and yet did not get good results. Some ppl merely study a little everyday or study last minute before exams but can still get good results. What can we say? Can we say that the ppl who study day and night deserved to get good results and those who study less deserved not? Not to say that life is unfair...but this is wat life really is rite?

[windy_city]

Yeah, my favorite sentence, life is never fair!!

So if you cannot study just one night and score an excellent result after that, then the only solution is to study more. I believe that the most important element to succeed is through hard work. I think I am stupid, and less intelligent than others are, so I always try to work harder and study more to be on par or get ahead of others.

Maybe it looks like I am under-estimating myself, but I rather be the stupid one and work hard to succeed than to be the self-proclaimed genius who need to cheat to succeed.

Yeah, it is not fair, not everyone is born a genius, but who say less intelligent people must lose to those geniuses. The road to success is determined by you, not your DNA or genes. So I never believe in such thing as study 24/7 and still cannot excel. (It is just an excuse)

[ElansarGelmir]

Hehe.... The reason that those ppl study hard is they know they NEED to... For those who just play and play.... well, they dun even have to cheat in exams... In fact, their result will be better than urs... Those should be applauded, not for their effort, but their brain......


Ok..if I'm the guy... I wont advice him. First, the invigilators will think u r trying to cheat...
what about exams based on honesty?


what i've learnt is never go beyond ur limits to get into good classes or unis.... Coz the standard is high... and u'll sure die trying to keep up their expectations.... so, just slot urself into the standard that fits u best, and at the same time, try working to achieve higher standards....

[pandaboy]

What is "exams based on honesty"? Shouldnt us be honest in every exams? Sorry for being ignorant, but I'm not quite sure what u mean, ElansarGelmir. Care to elaborate?

[janewai]

Yeah, it is not fair, not everyone is born a genius, but who say less intelligent people must lose to those geniuses. The road to success is determined by you, not your DNA or genes. So I never believe in such thing as study 24/7 and still cannot excel. (It is just an excuse)

cant agree with you about this! i believe that a lot people out there do study hard but still can't get to thier target.... :roll: you can choose to not believe but please dont define it as an excuse.

[gal_flower]

i think there are ppl who study 24/7 but cannot excel. see, the word is excel. they may do quite well or juz ok but to excel may be another thing. i mean, i always believe that everyone's created to be good at something...so not everyone is able to study 24/7 and excel because what about those who can't sing, paint, act or dance?

wad makes ppl bengang is ppl who CAN study 24/7 n excel but CHOOSE not to do so...agree, windy_city?

tarnishing our country's name is the last thing we should do when we study overseas...it doesn't matter whether you r on scholarship or not...it's a matter of u n ur 'tanah air'...esp on this kind of matter...i mean, tis person obviously CAN study 24/7 n excel if he/she was chosen to study under jpa scholarship rite?

[ElansarGelmir]

Yeah lar, else how can he (using masculine to represent both male and female role, though the feminists and egalitarians will have something to say about this), the cheater get into U Chicago anyway? It's rather a prestigious U... so, i think it's due to laziness... well, that guy better pull up his socks, else there goes the Malaysians' reputation....

[windy_city]

i think there are ppl who study 24/7 but cannot excel. see, the word is excel. they may do quite well or juz ok but to excel may be another thing. i mean, i always believe that everyone's created to be good at something...so not everyone is able to study 24/7 and excel because what about those who can't sing, paint, act or dance?

wad makes ppl bengang is ppl who CAN study 24/7 n excel but CHOOSE not to do so...agree, windy_city?

tarnishing our country's name is the last thing we should do when we study overseas...it doesn't matter whether you r on scholarship or not...it's a matter of u n ur 'tanah air'...esp on this kind of matter...i mean, tis person obviously CAN study 24/7 n excel if he/she was chosen to study under jpa scholarship rite?

I agree with gal_flower. I think all selected scholars should have no problem doing well academically if they study hard.

Anyway, maybe the word "excel" is a bit too strong. I should have said: I never believe that there is such thing as study 24/7 and still cannot get a decent result. This should be more appropriate.

Ya, the thing that make me angry the most is a person who can do well but choose to be lazy instead and hope that he/she can go through it by cheating.

[digimushu]

i think there are ppl who study 24/7 but cannot excel. see, the word is excel. they may do quite well or juz ok but to excel may be another thing. i mean, i always believe that everyone's created to be good at something...so not everyone is able to study 24/7 and excel because what about those who can't sing, paint, act or dance?

wad makes ppl bengang is ppl who CAN study 24/7 n excel but CHOOSE not to do so...agree, windy_city?

tarnishing our country's name is the last thing we should do when we study overseas...it doesn't matter whether you r on scholarship or not...it's a matter of u n ur 'tanah air'...esp on this kind of matter...i mean, tis person obviously CAN study 24/7 n excel if he/she was chosen to study under jpa scholarship rite?

I agree with gal_flower. I think all selected scholars should have no problem doing well academically if they study hard.

Anyway, maybe the word "excel" is a bit too strong. I should have said: I never believe that there is such thing as study 24/7 and still cannot get a decent result. This should be more appropriate.

Ya, the thing that make me angry the most is a person who can do well but choose to be lazy instead and hope that he/she can go through it by cheating.

I share the same sentiments. I have to admit, I do help some of my friends out by letting them 'check answers' with me and it is mostly checking since they have no confidence in themselves. Many of them, even if they do OK in the finals, they will just pass...barely.

I do hate 'leeches' tho. These are the people that only call you when they need your lab report and notes and if not..they will just treat u as a nobody.

[dinna_g]

i must say that jinjoo has an excellent point!

cheating your way up is bad. period. especially as you go to higher level but let me tell you something, cheating doesn't pay! sooner or later that person has got to pay the price, but probably in a different situation.

however, it's really hard to justify if this person do not deserve the scholarship (afterall, that's what the forum's topic is all about anyway). you have to know that we, malaysians are generally "spoon fed" by our teachers during high school. this person probably needs to adjust his time through college.

i'm sure, everyone can perform well (and it's really subjective what's your definition of well is). but you also need time to adjust with the surroundings. i, myself admits that my first year here was hard. my sophomore here was much better. i'm more comfortable studying and getting along with my friends and colleague.

my suggestion to you, dear windy_city. why don't you talk to this person. he/she may have a hard time studying and what not. afterall, your TA asked you to talk to him/her, right? what's the point of complaining when there's no action taken. and it's really no big deal if you tell him "dude, what you did was wrong?".

[The_Observer]

If there are two thing I can tell JPA scholars:

1. Please improve your language skills. You make the other Malaysian students feel embarassed with your ad-hoc, defunct lingual skills.

2. Don't study your rocks off la...relax...uni is not for total study, mate. Dun bring your Form 5 technique to uni life..enjoy life a bit la

[ElansarGelmir]

Cheaters never prosper... But i have to admit, i cheated before.... In fact, i think 80% of my class does that... Not to say we cheat coz we are desperate... just for the fun of it... after all, it's not a major exam or what... just in some tests or quizzes... hehe.... that's why still got some skill, though i have chucked them away before SPM...

[gatecrasher]

If there are two thing I can tell JPA scholars:

1. Please improve your language skills. You make the other Malaysian students feel embarassed with your ad-hoc, defunct lingual skills.

2. Don't study your rocks off la...relax...uni is not for total study, mate. Dun bring your Form 5 technique to uni life..enjoy life a bit la
what prompts those comments (especially the first)? care to elaborate?
just asking ok? :)

[endoru]

If there are two thing I can tell JPA scholars:

1. Please improve your language skills. You make the other Malaysian students feel embarassed with your ad-hoc, defunct lingual skills.

2. Don't study your rocks off la...relax...uni is not for total study, mate. Dun bring your Form 5 technique to uni life..enjoy life a bit la
what prompts those comments (especially the first)? care to elaborate?
just asking ok? :)

Wow. Strict.
Haha.

Yeah, everyone should reach a level where no simple grammatic errors would be done. But, I guess we can give space to "some" right ?

About "don't just study only", I agree on that point.
Of course, we do our best to excel in our studies but at the same time, we must "excel" in our social life as well.
I am not sure about the others (as in other countries JPA scholars) but in Japan, we Malaysians hold an image being real active and real outgoing in no matter what we do. Not all though. Haha. Yeah, but I guess when we study in an international surrounding, we tend to be better in no matter what area we are in. We, Malaysians, should not lose in linguistic power ! We learn 2 or 3 languages since kindergarten !

So it is worth to polish up as much as we can !
Still trying to master English although I am in a land which does not use it much at all.

Hehe.
Peace !

[gal_flower]

woah! we might get into a massive digressive discussion if we continue talking about languages.

windy_city, glad that you agree with me. so just do what u think is rite...the rest doesnt matter...we can but only be unhappy abt a situation for a period of time =)

[Reshmonurendaviousokinawa]

I'm from malaysian, there not too many language you learn there your own language and 2 language again...
Impossible if you learn other country language :D

[cmhang]

I'm from malaysian, there not too many language you learn there your own language and 2 language again...
Impossible if you learn other country language :D

own language + 2 language... do u mean Chinese + BM + English??

I think you are very wrong. Besides Chinese, BM, and English, there are many schools that teaches other languages. Japanese for example, lots of schools teaching that and I think most universities offer Japanese language as extra curricular subject too.

Lessons for other languages like Korean, French, German, etc. are also available. Maybe less in Sarawak but definitely not the case in West M'sia, esp in Klang Valley.

[janewai]

I'm from malaysian, there not too many language you learn there your own language and 2 language again...
Impossible if you learn other country language :D

shame to say that I dont really understand what it mean :roll:

[endoru]

Me too.
I did not get it too.

Anyway, yeah, lately in the Klang valley area many languages are being taught besides BM, English and Chinese.

Hehe.
Peace !

[ElansarGelmir]

I'm from malaysian, there not too many language you learn there your own language and 2 language again...
Impossible if you learn other country language :D

own language + 2 language... do u mean Chinese + BM + English??

I think you are very wrong. Besides Chinese, BM, and English, there are many schools that teaches other languages. Japanese for example, lots of schools teaching that and I think most universities offer Japanese language as extra curricular subject too.

Lessons for other languages like Korean, French, German, etc. are also available. Maybe less in Sarawak but definitely not the case in West M'sia, esp in Klang Valley.

Hard to find those schools in Penang... there's no private institution as well...

[The_Observer]

I find that a good number of JPA students who study in countries having English as its primary language...know their grammar and some vocabulary...but they bloody miss out or get blurred with nuances. Not to mention, they take like a few sentences when 3-4 words would suffice.
Sad to say, but them speaking is quite irritating to the ear....

More training needed perhaps? They have 2 years for it, plenty of time for it if they started early.
And this is English. What if they are studying in France or Germany or Russia?

This is now...but as the years go by, I guess the newer JPA scholars would be better. Thanks to finally making science and maths use English plus the chance in learning foreign languages (eg. Endoru's post).

[endoru]

I find that a good number of JPA students who study in countries having English as its primary language...know their grammar and some vocabulary...but they bloody miss out or get blurred with nuances. Not to mention, they take like a few sentences when 3-4 words would suffice.
Sad to say, but them speaking is quite irritating to the ear....


Haha.
Agreeable to a certain point.
Human tend to flowerish whatever they are trying to say when they learn more or know more.
So let them be poets of what they have learnt.


More training needed perhaps? They have 2 years for it, plenty of time for it if they started early.
And this is English. What if they are studying in France or Germany or Russia?


Can you elaborate on this ?


This is now...but as the years go by, I guess the newer JPA scholars would be better. Thanks to finally making science and maths use English plus the chance in learning foreign languages (eg. Endoru's post).


I did not really get what you meant here but yes, to me the chance of learning Japanese was a great thing.
Hehe.
Peace !

[The_Observer]

Errr....its not as if everything I say has a metaphor behind it.
Sometimes, I just state the obvious.

For your 2nd quote...I meant that they really need more practice and the right practice not just adding 'I' or 'You' to their mother tongue. Of course I can't demand too much of them because they are like fish out of water...

[endoru]

I see.
Hehe.
Peace !

[masdie]

If there are two thing I can tell JPA scholars:

1. Please improve your language skills. You make the other Malaysian students feel embarassed with your ad-hoc, defunct lingual skills.

I've seen JPA scholars studying in English-speaking countries speaking rubbish English. A shame? Absolutely.

Being a JPA scholar doesn't mean anything. Just that you don't have to worry about your tuition fees. Just like being a doctor or an engineer, you're still not god but some people like to smell your fart.

The question remains: Is JPA doing a good job in selecting scholars? How do we know whether a person deserves a scholarship?

PS: I never liked the idea of studying in a different language. If you want expertise from those countries, send some there for training AFTER their basic degree in ENGLISH.

[reign226]

Wah, reviving old topic ah? Anyway, enough said that JPA do not select based purely on merit. There are 'other factors' that contribute to the 'total score' and competition is so high that 'a few percentage points can make a difference'. This means we will get screwed in those other factors since only a few % can alter the results. That's not merit, nuff said.

But AFAIK, JPA seems to be doing an okay jobs. At the very least, not major screwups from the scholars and this is probably so because the foreign uni where JPA sends their students will filter out the crap.

I do wonder how many people get 'filtered' out though. It's like denying more qualified people their spot. Anybody got the stats?

Finally, JPA sends their students for pre-u courses, of which most are almost all conducted in english (Alvls, IB, etc) so if they can score in those paper, their english is probably sufficient to understand and absorb the ideas, nevermind they might stumble with the language conversationally. I have a friend who's not that great in english but he still did well in STPM. You don't need a degree in literature to read all those scientific stuff anyway.

[Thirdshifter]

Geez..

If cheating gets him on the deans kist.. then yeah.. why the hell not, he's smart nonetheless. Anyways i feel.. A man got to do what a man got to do.

It's all about your own moral standards... for me i just dont care. A 4 year college degree only means one thing to me. It means you are willing to endure the suffering of school for another 4 years and end up just as smart as you were when you left high school.. plus getting that piece of paper that'll be a stepping stone for a big paycheck.

If I was the Prof or TA i'd let it slide considering it really doesnt hurt anyone else except the student itself and few other that get really pissed off when they studied like nuts and ended up with lower grades then the cheater/copier... which in this case i suggest the pissed of students take a '101--How to copy a Paper' crash course with that fella.

[Patrick]

A person who cheats will never find satisfaction in his/her life. No matter what kind of achievements he/she has had, it all boils down to his/her own efforts. Did he do it on his/her own or did he/she cheat?

So, cheaters will NEVER find satisfaction in their lives. The attention that they get from their "achievements" are just illusions. Illusions that are created by the cheater for himself/herself.

And when the real thing comes, that is when the cheater's supposed to do something exceptional and is on his/her own, he/she will fail, and...you've guessed it - embarassment.

As for courses that are conducted in English, exempli gratia A-Levels and the International Baccalaureate, students once again find a way to use Bahasa Malaysia instead of English. Although it's medium of instruction is in English, they converse in BM to discuss abput the subjects taught when they're out of class. Probably this can be beneficial, since they're not forgetting their national language, but what's the point of this when they're not even proficient in English?

Stammer, stammer, stammer. Learn, learn, learn.
Life is all about making mistakes and learning from them.

As for who should get the scholarship...hmm...this is very subjective, as if searching for a dot in a line.
If the sponsor wants a super achiever, they'd say that someone who's a braniac will be their first choice, no matter how screwed up that person is.

Saya punya 2 sen

[masdie]

foreign uni where JPA sends their students will filter out the crap.

But not all of them. Some universities in need of cash will be happy to admit full-paying students.

It's like denying more qualified people their spot.

That's the point. JPA is spending money on somewhat less-worthy scholars.

Finally, JPA sends their students for pre-u courses, of which most are almost all conducted in english (Alvls, IB, etc) so if they can score in those paper, their english is probably sufficient to understand and absorb the ideas, nevermind they might stumble with the language conversationally.

Aren't they like the little ambassadors of M'sia? Aren't they supposed to be the best M'sia can offer? Aren't they causing shame to M'sia? Maybe you guys should read through the scholarship threads and see how 'good' these scholars are. Some are good, but some are just lousy.

As for who should get the scholarship...hmm...this is very subjective, as if searching for a dot in a line.

That's why I think the interview should be taken seriously.

But anyway, we all know that no one can change JPA's selection style. In this country, there're something that will not change no matter what.