Pak Lah confuses me

[misled_youth]

Fact:

- On more than three major occasions did UMNO declare war on the Chinese, which "Soak the keris in Chinese" blood be their battlecry. The last being in 2000 when Ghaffar Baba organised such a rally in KL.

- Often heard UMNO tag lines, "Untuk agama, bangsa, dan negara", "Hidup UMNO, Hidup Melayu".

- UMNO Youth threatened to burn down Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall, which is oftened refered to as "Kubu Pembangkang" (Opposition Fortress).

- Permits for new places of worship for religions other than Islam are rarely given. Look no further than the famous The Catholic Church in Shah Alam which was not allowed to be built for more than a decade. There are also laws which requires a certain amount of religious makeup before a given place of worship can be built (e.g. Subang Jaya) (Note: There are no such laws in PAS ruled Kelantan). On the other hand, a Surau or a Mosque will pop up in every nook and corner, regardless of the religious make up in the area.

- Permits for burial grounds for non-Muslims is a pain in the arse to get.

- Government has a fund for the development of Islam.

- So on and so forth........................

And now...

Pak Lah has the cheek to cry in front of reporters saying that there is religious tension in the country when the body he is leading is perpetrating the act of inciting religious and racial tension.

http://202.71.103.11/imagebank/storyimages/faith_conference_pm_tears_030804.JPG.jpg

Pak Lah... you make me sick!

Pak Lah was tasked with the job of being a good prime minister, not win the Oscars! We already had enough of Dr M crying. Don't pull a page out of his book!

If you want to read more about his teary-eyed shenanigans, goto: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/28886
________
How to roll blunts (http://howtorollablunt.net/)

[topdog]

- Permits for new places of worship for religions other than Islam are rarely given. Look no further than the famous The Catholic Church in Shah Alam which was not allowed to be built for more than a decade. you mean they've allowed it to be built now? ahh....how i miss the days of driving to kelana jaya for mass from shah alam section 18 since there was no church in the area.:D

[misled_youth]

you mean they've allowed it to be built now? ahh....how i miss the days of driving to kelana jaya for mass from shah alam section 18 since there was no church in the area.:D

Built already? Lama lagi lah bang... mimpi siang kot?
________
Vaporizer-info (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[topdog]

from the mkini report:
However, he noted that Malaysia?s cultural, language and religious diversity could serve as a lesson to the world on how to make a diverse country work.
this is true to a certain extent. having said that, we should realize that we are not at all the only country in the world with cultural, linguistic and religious diversity that has not degenerated into a pariah state. we are in no way unique. lots of countries are successfully multi racial.

the government spin doctors may always trumpet our diversity in front of foreigners (it brings in the tourists maa), but what's more important is what we are doing with our diversity. look around you. are we moving towards a monocultural society, where one culture/religion is favored at the expense of others?

also, i think it's time that we stop comparing ourselves to other third world countries and the sheikdoms and whatever doms in the middle east. dr mahathir loved being the big fish in the small pond. that way we will always feel good about ourselves coz it really doesn't take much to "be a model nation" to countries like sudan, zimbabwe, etc.

that's my NATO for today.:)

[chenchow]

misled_youth, I don't think that it is good for you to incite racial sentiment here.

I think that we should look at things objectively. Right now, what you have done is sticking a finger out and points at others. this is not the way to go in our life and definitely not the way in ReCom. While there may be disatisfactory within you and may be others, there are much better ways for all of us to discuss all these... and not just directly pointing fingers at others.

[ElansarGelmir]

Haha... yeah, kinda sensitive issue.... But what needs to be told needs to be told.... Else, we are just merely avoiding the issue... Misled_youth, perhaps u can tone down?

[Thirdshifter]

misled_youth, I don't think that it is good for you to incite racial sentiment here.

I don't think re broaught up any racial sentiments here. Matter of fact he was simply pointing out the obvious truth, well not entirely a balanced view since they're leaders from MCA who vows to make chinese the supreme being in Malaysia as well, but none the less i don't see anything wrong with what he had said.

Badawi crying over this is Propaganda at its best. UMNO has stood for Malays and will always do. MCA and MIC is just a branch of UMNO. I think if anything goes wrong in MCA badawi would probably appoint a new leader for them.

[masterof_none]

I think if anything goes wrong in MCA badawi would probably appoint a new leader for them.

this is in fact true in any organization, right?

this is true. the best thing is to point fingers at others. but what's more important in the ReCom Way?. Fix it.

merely pointing fingers at Pak Lah is certainly not a good thing.
Religion is a sensitive issue, I agree. But we also want to live in harmony. If you disagree, finding out ways to solve the problem. If Pak Lah confuses you, try to understand him.
how do you know that he cried because of propaganda?.

that;s what it takes to be the Malaysian leader.
find out the smart way to check and balance.

[chenchow]

Fully agree with masterof_none... I think the best way would be for us to reflect on this issue and see how we in ReCom could do to make Malaysia a better place... something realistic within our means...

And I would like to clarify that I do not intend to curb freedom of speech... Everyone has their rights to speak their mind out... I am sorry if my earlier reminder hurts anyone's feelings...

Lets discuss this issue with our sensible mind...and work together to find out some suggestions, solutions...

[Thirdshifter]

merely pointing fingers at Pak Lah is certainly not a good thing.
Religion is a sensitive issue, I agree. But we also want to live in harmony. If you disagree, finding out ways to solve the problem.


To solve it, we need to talk about it more. We need to find what cause it and what our leaders are doing about the issue. Shooting down any discussion about these 'senstive' issue would not help.

What Is the reason of Religion/race tense that is going on in Malaysia?

I would say because politicians/leaders in Malaysia love to use both of those thing to gain votes.

For an example, the things misled youth posted about UMNO.

[digimushu]

I think if anything goes wrong in MCA badawi would probably appoint a new leader for them.

this is in fact true in any organization, right?

this is true. the best thing is to point fingers at others. but what's more important in the ReCom Way?. Fix it.

merely pointing fingers at Pak Lah is certainly not a good thing.
Religion is a sensitive issue, I agree. But we also want to live in harmony. If you disagree, finding out ways to solve the problem. If Pak Lah confuses you, try to understand him.
how do you know that he cried because of propaganda?.

that;s what it takes to be the Malaysian leader.
find out the smart way to check and balance.

Sorry but emotional outbursts are NOT the best way for a leader to show concern. Feeling angry, sad will not solve problems. As i have said in my posts, talk is cheap. Anyone can cry over spilled milk. Who is going to lap it up?

Sadly, none of us in recom can do anything about our country other than talk about it because we have no say in anything. We can all be idealists but the question is, do we have the power to implement any changes? or are we just yapping our heads off?
As The_Observer says, NATO
:)

Just my random thoughts

Dear mis_lead youth,

It is foolish to term someone "making you sick" when a rational
disinterested person would probably think of you as a "sick"
propagandists.

The "facts" you pointed out all seem to point to actions of
certain isolated members of UMNO, and not Pak Lah himself. (except
the fact that UMNO slogan is Hidup Melayu, since after all, one
the objective of UMNO is to protect the Malays. But keep in mind
that protecting the Malays involves maintaining a harmonious
multi-racial Malaysia).

In fact, Pak Lah is regarded as Mr. Nice Guy, someone who doesn't
play the "race card". If you want to list "facts", tell us one
incident when Pak Lah himself said something racist (obviously by
your posts in recom, you have proven to be even more racist than
Pak Lah - I guess it is natural for a racist to be sick of someone
clearly less racist).

Also, can you name us an (yes, just one) Islamic country that is
more tolerant and more progressive than Malaysia?

With that, I rest my case (awaiting your rebuttals).

I just read the Malaysiakini article of Pak Lah admitting latent racial tension in Malaysia. I admire him for admitting what few politicians would say publicly. In fact, he noted that the this racial tensions were due in part to the not-so-good US foreign policy post-9/11.

?In the eyes of many Muslims, events in the last three years seem to lend credence to the view that the Christian west is once again at war with the Muslim world.? he said while highlighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as having taken religious undertones. "

[Thirdshifter]

Also, can you name us an (yes, just one) Islamic country that is
more tolerant and more progressive than Malaysia?



Indonesia? although malaysia and indonesia are both non Islamic countries. Just the population are dominantly Muslims.

A real prograssive and have Muslims as the majority is probably turkey?

Also i don't think Malaysia would move on until we have a goverment that doesn't require you to be a certain race just to be part of their political group.

Imagine if George bush was to say 'Hidup Orang putih! ' Or White power? In malaysia we can get away with it. Because? we are so forgiving.

[chenchow]

Prince, you have a very good point. I fully agree with you.

Besides reading the Malaysiakini full article, I would invite those who are interested in this issue, to not just read the few lines brought out of context, but to read the full text by Pak Lah.

http://www.pmo.gov.my/WebNotesApp/PMMain.nsf/hv_PMKiniSemasaNew/94A86D7E1656B5E948256EE50029F61A

Having read the entire speech, I can feel that what Pak Lah is saying is very sincere. He is a soft-hearted person and I believe that he really feel what he said...

I don't want to obscure anyone's mind, but I would invite those interested to read it and share with us your mind...

Also, can you name us an (yes, just one) Islamic country that is
more tolerant and more progressive than Malaysia?



Indonesia? although malaysia and indonesia are both non Islamic countries. Just the population are dominantly Muslims.

A real prograssive and have Muslims as the majority is probably turkey?

Also i don't think Malaysia would move on until we have a goverment that doesn't require you to be a certain race just to be part of their political group.

Imagine if George bush was to say 'Hidup Orang putih! ' Or White power? In malaysia we can get away with it. Because? we are so forgiving.

Indonesia!? :? Are you telling us that a country with racial riots, that killed many Chinese, just a few years ago is more progressive than Malaysia?

Malaysia, as declared by Dr. M, is an Islamic country in the sense that Islam is a official religion (in fact the WSJ just written an article about Pak Lah and termed Malaysia an Islamic country). I don't think that is good, and that's why there's much to improve on.

Turkey is a modern and *secular* country. While I cannot profess to know much about Turkish politics, I know enough to know that the military is still very powerful there -- therefore, it is not a real democracy in that sense. The military have a record of staging coups if the government becomes too Islamic or too extreme (or does not suit the military).

BTW, while being a white-supremacist is taboo in the US these days, it was not long ago (in the early 20th century) that many scholars and politicians were white-supremacist. An example would be Woodrow Wilson, the first president who was a college (Princeton) president and professor. Fifty years back, segregation was norm, blacks could not go to the good schools and colleges, etc.
But the great thing about America is that the nation learned fast, and Americans changed fast to correct the mistakes of the past.

[ElansarGelmir]

In fact, Pak Lah is regarded as Mr. Nice Guy, someone who doesn't
play the "race card". If you want to list "facts", tell us one
incident when Pak Lah himself said something racist (obviously by
your posts in recom, you have proven to be even more racist than
Pak Lah - I guess it is natural for a racist to be sick of someone
clearly less racist).

If you are a good politician, i bet u won't make conspicuous move that reveals ur propaganda... There are minor housing and developement project, with the plan designed Pak Lah himself (while he was the deputy) in the Province Wellesley which itself is biased...

As what topdog has just said, stop comparing ourselves to other third world countries... For goodness sake, we are a Developing country, heading for the laurels of the first world.... If you use someone who is less clever than u as a yardstick in your studies, will u ever succeed?

Why there still are racial and religion tension in Malaysia?

I think it's the lack of freedom of speech. No one is allowed to question the special rights, in which the dissatisfaction remains in most non-bumis to this day.... ISA is always vigilant in tracking down those who raise sensitive racial issue... in the end, most ppl are afraid of talking about it and avoid the issue totally, except for some NATO in coffee shops.... That is why the tension remains....

[dinna_g]

Indonesia!? :? Are you telling us that a country with racial riots, that killed many Chinese, just a few years ago is more progressive than Malaysia?

IMHO, Indonesia is just as progressive as Malaysia if not more. I admit that there are racial riots in Indonesia, but with reasons (may not be a concrete one but there must be something that initiated them). If you think about it, riots happen in Indonesia all the time while Malaysians don't do riot. What I'm trying to say is, racial riots happened not because of Indonesia is less progressive but because of that is how they deal with their problems over there.

Indonesia is a Republic country. Hence, there is no restriction what-so-ever in religion. If you're a muslim and you decided to convert to Christian, go ahead and there's nothing the government will do about it. However, in malaysia, it is a big deal. That is just one example, I can talk for hours to argue my point.

In fact, my uncle (who is an Indonesian) came to Malaysia and he was impressed by the Islamic values that are implemented in our culture.

Hmm...it's interesting that some are still insisting on comparing Indonesia with Malaysia, a country where the minorities (i.e. Chinese) cannot use their names, cannot speak their own mother tongues, cannot practice their own culture. A country where the military is still invovled in the politics. A country where minorities are banned from joining the military or other important positions. A country where tons are fleeing for better job prospect in Malaysia and Singapore.

[deekay]

3. By now, those who are guests in Malaysia would have been told by your Malaysian friends about the uniqueness of our country. About multiculturalism and diversity flourishing in this land of many cultures, languages and religions. You would have been told that our strength as a nation comes from our differences. Our diversity does not divide us ? it unites us and brings us together. I do not want to claim that there are no problems among the different ethnic and religious communities in Malaysia. I do not want to claim that there are no latent tensions and frustrations. There are still very many things that we need to work on. But if the world ever needed a lesson in diversity and making it work, I am confident that Malaysia can be a showcase.

This is part of Pak Lah's speech which Malaysiakini reports as "Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi today conceded that there were underlying religious tensions in the country although the various communities lived in harmony. "

Personally, I don't think that captures the essence of what he was trying to convey but it isn't wrong reporting either. Slightly sensationalisitc, I thought.

I looked at NST's website but there was no report of the PM's speech - only the full speech in a side bar.

The Star reported on the PM's speech but made no mention of the admission of tension & problems.

I did not see any reporting in Berita Harian or Utusan. Perhaps they will come out later ?

So some newspapers have chosen to ignore this and only one (though not even a newspaper in the conventional sense) reports on it albeit with some "spice" on it.

I thought that Pak Lah's speech was quite balanced and it was obviously aimed towards an inernational audience. I don't think it was directed at a Malaysian audience - hence a media "blackout" on an interesting admission ???

Of course, if it were directed at Malaysians, you will then get the UMNO, MCA and MIC politicians all getting on to the bandwagon to outdo each other to relieve the "tension". They will also be "surprised" that Pak Lah has spoken out and cried. Oh these politicians are so drama lah.

What can Recom do ? Get rid of the differentiation between the "local" face and the "international" face.

Nobody says this is easy. Remember Peter Parker ? He had a tough time reconciling his dual identity.

[The_Observer]

The previous post by Thirdshifter was right on the money. Imagine George Bush crying "White Power!" or something....I guess we here had become too docile.

The Black Americans struggle for equality was a violent and bloody affair...and they are not completely successful.
If the minorities of M'sia should follow suit, which I think it would, May 13th 1969 will happen again...albeit a little differently.
Just shows how barbarious some ppl are and how undeserving they are to reap profits from the country.

The Quran sanctioned that any man can choose whatever belief he/she chooses....correct me if I am wrong about that (me not Muslim...u see). Thing is...theory is always different to reality. Should the Govt grant freedom of religion, I am sure they will withdraw benefits or do something bad towards those who changed beliefs.

Its the fact of M'sian life that we have to live with. I dun like it either but whats the % of Malays in our population...somemore they are increasing day by day while ours decrease.

The M'sian situation is a boot on our heads. All the races know it. One doesn't care while the others can't do anything about it.
Solution? Wish there was one...right now...all we can do is damage control.

FYI, if the situation becomes barbarious: BRING IT ON

[masterof_none]

Why there still are racial and religion tension in Malaysia?

I think it's the lack of freedom of speech. No one is allowed to question the special rights, in which the dissatisfaction remains in most non-bumis to this day....


Democracy and Freedom of Speech is highly ambigous term. it's important to represent an ideal, but, it really depends on where you speak. I would agree if we say that Indonesia is highly democratic, and people rule the govt. But do you want every president of your country being toppled just like Indonesians?.

A country like Indonesia certainly need leadership. For me, I would say, Indonesia needs a 'benign' dictator, a dictator who doesn't corrupt. Giving too much freedom to a politically unstable country is a disaster. Why the American govt, who cherish the freedom of speech so much, passed the Patriot Act, that let them scrutinize all your movement?. It's because, it depends. the tricky thing is, to balance them.

Also, look at how we define democracy.
there are hundreds of definition of democracy around.
if you believe that democracy is a system ruled by the majority,
then, the majority would wins. In Malaysia, the Malays are the majority, so, according to the democracy defined above, the law would always favor the malays.
same thing when you're in a group of people.,where you're the only one who has a brilliant idea, and the others are not so brilliant than you. If the majority says yes to the not-so-brilliant decision, hey, that's the majority, and democracy would work that way.

But is this the definition of democracy that we want?.
This is what my professor offer: (and I remember I wrote it somewhere long ago here at Recom forum) something like:
to balance between public accountability and the interest of the minority. that would work pretty well in a democratic society.
But the check and balance should also come from the minority.

at any rate, I don't think Turkey is a good example of an Islamic country. Turkey's prolonged financial problem is enough to say that it's a sick, ailing country that need some leadership. What's up with Erbakan, who won the pemiership, and later being stripped from the govt?. I think that's a big deal.
check this out:
http://www.diaspora-net.org/Turkey/soft_coup2.html

as for Indonesia, I don't think it's a good example either.
In fact, Malaysia IS the example of most of Muslims countries nowadays.
we're essentially at the junction.

[chenchow]

I looked at NST's website but there was no report of the PM's speech - only the full speech in a side bar.

The Star reported on the PM's speech but made no mention of the admission of tension & problems.

I did not see any reporting in Berita Harian or Utusan. Perhaps they will come out later ?

So some newspapers have chosen to ignore this and only one (though not even a newspaper in the conventional sense) reports on it albeit with some "spice" on it.

It is 7:55am now. Star Newspaper just been updated.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/8/4/nation/8587347&sec=nation

Quote from The Star "He said the strength of Malaysians was
their diversity that united them. However, he did not deny that there were problems among them.

?I do not want to claim there are no latent tensions and frustrations. There are still very many things we need to work on. ""

So, you haven't really checked well on this matter.

NST online version is only updated at 9:30am Malaysia time. So, it is still yesterday newspaper that you are looking at.

Utusan Melayu and Berita Harian covered the speech, but not much details in it.

[cmhang]

Indonesia!? :? Are you telling us that a country with racial riots, that killed many Chinese, just a few years ago is more progressive than Malaysia?

I agree with prince. How can a country be progressive when it's not harmony?

BTW, this just popped up in my mind while I was reading Pak Lah's article: Are those really what he said? from his very own heart and mind?

I mean, I do know that in some occasions where the speech is not written by the person who deliver the speech. There's a lot of occasions where the party that organize the event has to write the speech for the person who delivers it (but of course, the person who delivers it read the speech before he/she actually delivers it.) But then again, anyone of you can confirm that Pak Lah wrote all these? Or is it someone (maybe his secretary or so) wrote it and got his approval?? :?

I mean, I do know that in some occasions where the speech is not written by the person who deliver the speech. There's a lot of occasions where the party that organize the event has to write the speech for the person who delivers it (but of course, the person who delivers it read the speech before he/she actually delivers it.) But then again, anyone of you can confirm that Pak Lah wrote all these? Or is it someone (maybe his secretary or so) wrote it and got his approval?? :?

In most cases, top people do not write their own speech entirely by themselves, it is too time consuming. They have professional speech writers to help them and sometimes even have professionals to coach them on giving speeches.

[cmhang]

In most cases, top people do not write their own speech entirely by themselves, it is too time consuming. They have professional speech writers to help them and sometimes even have professionals to coach them on giving speeches.

That's what I mean

[__earth]

Indonesia is a Republic country. Hence, there is no restriction what-so-ever in religion. If you're a muslim and you decided to convert to Christian, go ahead and there's nothing the government will do about it. However, in malaysia, it is a big deal. That is just one example, I can talk for hours to argue my point.

I think being a republic has nothing to do with "no restriction what-so-ever in religion". Previous Iraqi government was a republic and there were certainly restrictions. Syria is a republic but there are restrictions. Egypt is a republic but there are restrictions.

What I think you meant to say is that Indonesia is somewhat a secular country.

Should the Govt grant freedom of religion, I am sure they will withdraw benefits or do something bad towards those who changed beliefs.

Why do you think so?

The govt would probably withdraw unfair benefits but "do something bad towards those who changed beliefs"?

Don't you think, if the govt granted freedom of religion, the govt wouldn't care if a citizen switched his/her religion?

[phantom]

thirdshifter wrote:

A real progressive and have Muslims as the majority is probably turkey?


with almost 96% of ppl in turkey r muslim,tell me will they face the same tension as we do ?

and tell me,which nation in this world will banned hijabs from parliament in the name of secularism?so it is fair to deny certain ppl rights in the name of your least guided system?

so how great is your example mister?

where is turkey standings in the world economy growth?
care to do research before making that as your example.seeing a country with caucasians look alike,or having a Miss World doesnt make Turkey europe you see.

the last thing i want malaysia to be is turkey.

enough said.

about malaysia,all these times,you hear other race complaining about how they are discriminated in their own land.


but how about their practises?ain't that discriminating to the main race too?what about that?care to pinpoint that?what about another race who rather stands inside the bus than sit next to lady with hijab.tell me,why this is not pinpointed?becoz after all,you only care about your own needs and others dont matter?what about certain ppl who think they are born to have twice the size of brain compare to other races? what about self-segration?

so u hear,we did that becoz we hate the special rights.tell me,why then country like usa still faced racial tension?tell me,why we have to be americanized in order to be accepted in american high school life.pls ask your asian-american friends,with whom they sat and ate lunch with?
sure,some belonged to the in-group.how many are ousted?

now,so the easy scape-goat is the goverment.Pak Lah seems another bag to let your ire out.

look,in democracy the majority voice is darn important.sure there are muslims out there saying,let's be a secular nation.let's abolish the special rights.but why dont you guys bring this matter at least to a muslim dude who is now dancing at modesto.start with him.if you managed to nod him to secularisme and your ideas,follow up until ur pak imam at ur masjid.

do u think you will be successful?
do u think the majority of malay muslims in malaysia wanna agree with ur point,(yeas even those muslims who have pre-marital sex three times a week,)will they at least agree to ur opinion?

MY ANSWER IS : NO.

perhaps you are different.but in democracy regardless how important is the voice of the minorites,the majority can impale ur ideas just like that.

i am not saying the minorities are not important.but what about the majorities?just becoz u belong to the minorites dont mean you are on the weak side.your voices are heard.so do my voices should be heard.(nope,i dont belong to the majority group either).

perhaps certain policy constructed by the gov is idiotically racist,but tell me,if the system go away,will we see malaysian kissing each other regardless of their skin tones?or will we see the nation throne passed to someone who pretended to care about an egalitarian nation but at the end of the day only care about his race?or will we see the socio-economy gap widening between races?


then do you think,the majority will keep quiet?or will we see another Fiji in making?

why we are divided?why are are having racial tension?

alah,kerajaan punya pasal lah.kerajaan tu benggong.kerajaan tu bodoh.kerajaan tu ni,kerajaan tu itu.

[jiinjoo]

Pening lar phantom... reading your post. Who you scolding? Phrase nicely maybe the kerajaan that you voted for might listen for once...

With respect to the majority versus minority debate, I believe that different community that has a different racial (or any other segregation) makeup will have to tolerate different levels of frustration especially when the community can't come up with one single definition of "fair". We live in a world of constraints, there's not enough resource for everyone, so we have to decide for ourselves what's the best for the whole community and yourself. That's democracy, not the oppression of majorty on minority, coz that's just some instance of democracy, practised by those who think that this oppression is the best way to live their life.

The best part about democracy is that, you deserve whatever government you have, coz you made it, you voted for it, and you either fought for it or you just don't care.

[ElansarGelmir]

but how about their practises?ain't that discriminating to the main race too?what about that?care to pinpoint that?what about another race who rather stands inside the bus than sit next to lady with hijab.tell me,why this is not pinpointed?becoz after all,you only care about your own needs and others dont matter?what about certain ppl who think they are born to have twice the size of brain compare to other races? what about self-segration?

I think ur argument makes sense, coz there's no country where its citizen is 100% free from racism... however, i think ur evidence are very superficial indeed.... Care to give a more concrete examples where discrimination of the minority affects largely the bumis? And mind your words, the Indians and Chinese are one of the main race in Malaysia too, albeit their small composition in this country.... Unless you believe that in Malaysia, there's only the Malays.... the rest are peripherals....

And have you read the Malay Dilemma? it's Dr. Mahatir himself who believes that it's genetic factor which results in the smaller brain races.... and FYI, i dun view them that way... many of the Malays in my high school are smart, but they are lazy. always skip class, go to the school toilet for some "snack", ie, smoke.... that's why they dun really excel in studies... not to say that other races in my school don't smoke, but they made up a negligible amount of ppl.... if u want other examples besides my school, i believe anyone here from UiTM sec 17 can be a living testimonial to u. :wink:


and about the rather standing than sitting beside a hijab... how can u be so sure that most ppl do that? that's like one in a thousand case... and usually, it's preference... what's the condition of the man? Usually, i'd also rather stand than sitting besides smelly, unkempt and dirty man/woman/kid, be it Indian, Malay, Chinese, Bangla, Ang Mo, Japanese, black, blah blah.... So how sure are u that it's the hijab that coz the person to rather stand?


The news appears on the front page of the Star today...

I have a responsiblity not just to my fellow Muslims, but also to Malaysians who profess other religions as well. It is my duty to ensure that their rights are protected, that they are free to practise their faith and that they are not pressured because they are not from the dominant majority.

well, thanks for saying that Pak Lah... But let's hope that you say what you mean, and mean what you say.... I'm tired of hearing local churches are denied from setting up in my area (mainly composed of chinese, and some indians) while there was a huge mosque set up nearby my place not long ago... and it still remains as a white elephant.... a big and elegant structure, but too bad, as i passed it by each time, regardless what the time is, the car park is still 80% empty...

[misled_youth]

To those of you who cannot handle freedom for expression, please refer to the immortal words of Jack Nicholson in the movie "A Few Good Men".

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

We blame G.W. Bush for the crimes at Abu Gharib, but why can't I blame Pak Lah for the actions of his accolytes?

I propose chenchow be stripped of his JPA scholarship for sounding like my mother (er... joking lah).

Stick it to the man! (very cliche isn't it?)

Damn the man! Save the empire! (Empire Records)

You bastards! You blew it! *pound fist on ground (Planet of the Apes [Original Charlton Heston version])

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn! (Gone with the Wind)

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's Johnny! (The Shining)

Noooooooo.... you're not my father...! (Empire Strikes Back)

Note: A friendly advice to all of you. Don't smoke weed while on ReCom.

I'll be back! (Terminator)
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[misled_youth]

Clarification:

I'm not attacking the Malays. I'm attacking Pak Lah and UMNO's hypocrisy.

That's why I regularly praise PAS for their sincerity. They call me a khafir, and I accept it. But at least they don't say the Chinese are poisoning the minds of the Malays like how UMNO does.

Read between the lines dik... read between the lines.

There NO SUCH THING as sensitive issues. Only over-sensitive, ignorant hypochondriacs.

Stick it to man ya'll!
________
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[kevinkhoo1986]

- Permits for new places of worship for religions other than Islam are rarely given. Look no further than the famous The Catholic Church in Shah Alam which was not allowed to be built for more than a decade. you mean they've allowed it to be built now? ahh....how i miss the days of driving to kelana jaya for mass from shah alam section 18 since there was no church in the area.:D

Somehow I think it is quite true. To be frankly, since i was born 18 years ago, i never saw any new churches or new temples been built. The most is the reconstruction of churches and temples. While the mosques are keep on mushrooming. Have we ever heard that the government fully funded the construction of new temples of churches? Just in Klang alone, i have witness the construction of 4 new mosques which is very big in the period of 3 years time. Not to mention the number of surau which are even more. And the latest construction of new mosque in Klang City Centre(just infront of the shaw centre point or Klang's chinatown). Since i am a christian or maybe partially christian, i get to know that it is so hard to obtain a permit just to reconstructed a churches or for the expansion purpose. Sigh..... is that fair? we do pay for the taxes too. :roll:

[masterof_none]

To those of you who cannot handle freedom for expression, please refer to the immortal words of Jack Nicholson in the movie "A Few Good Men".

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!

We blame G.W. Bush for the crimes at Abu Gharib, but why can't I blame Pak Lah for the actions of his accolytes?

I propose chenchow be stripped of his JPA scholarship for sounding like my mother (er... joking lah).

Stick it to the man! (very cliche isn't it?)

Damn the man! Save the empire! (Empire Records)

You bastards! You blew it! *pound fist on ground (Planet of the Apes [Original Charlton Heston version])

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn! (Gone with the Wind)

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere's Johnny! (The Shining)

Noooooooo.... you're not my father...! (Empire Strikes Back)

Note: A friendly advice to all of you. Don't smoke weed while on ReCom.

I'll be back! (Terminator)

Misled, I think you watch too much movies.

[The_Observer]

Let me see...from what I gather from the previous posts:

That I can't retain and practice my cultural heritage, beliefs, religion and freedom because I must integrate myself and be assimilated into a 'National' culture.
Because if I do practice my culture, etc...I will create 'disunity' thus causing a 'ruckus'.

That sounds terribly odd to me, dun you think?

But seriously, I wun call for Pak Lah's head...he is trapped by the policies his predecessors had set in motion over the decades.
Of which, some of their descendents are going to take Pak Lah's job in the coming future. Cause for concern?

[Thirdshifter]

Malaysia, as declared by Dr. M, is an Islamic country in the sense that Islam is a official religion (in fact the WSJ just written an article about Pak Lah and termed Malaysia an Islamic country)

Regardless of what they claim, Malaysia is still technically A Secular State with Islam as its official religion. I wonder what does the Status of Official religion really means? Making sure that the top leaders are Muslims?

Turkey is a modern and *secular* country. While I cannot profess to know much about Turkish politics, I know enough to know that the military is still very powerful there -- therefore, it is not a real democracy in that sense. The military have a record of staging coups if the government becomes too Islamic or too extreme (or does not suit the military).

As far as i know, Human rights and freedom of speech is not held hostage. The frequent change in their leadership means their democracy is working and with them eagerly trying to join Euro and NATO, Turkey is just going to be a better example.

In Malaysia, the basic tool of communication is controlled by the selected few (thank god to the internet) Ever wonder why Malaysia is so slow embracing Broadband? Why dial-up is so expensive? Maybe they just don't want us to have it. UMNO led BN should be held responsible, if not fully at least partially for escalating the racial tense in Malaysia. It is their policies that are obviously unfair and unjust and simply unconstitutional.

But the great thing about America is that the nation learned fast, and Americans changed fast to correct the mistakes of the past.

The Man who wrote all man are created equal in USA constitution is a slave owner. When he wrote it, he meant all white men are borned equal. I guess Coloured People were not Men. Atleast that was his opinion.

The non-migration minorities, Blacks. Had fought for their rights for atleast a century. Ever wonder why most blacks are good in athletics, tall, huge built? But not in Academia? Because the slave owner would kill all those who knows how to write and read and keep the Big guys because they are stronger, do more work in the fields.

About America had learn fast in the last 50 years is over simplfying the whole ordeal. There's so much more to it.

Indonesia
Indonesia is not politically stabil but at least when your in trouble you know the system works. You are sure that your goverment would not fuck you up just because you are against their policy. You have the right to group up and protest. Be heard. Make a change.

Indonesia would eventually land on the right track. The old Sukarno and suhartos policies to the minority chinese are all but over now. Indonesia in probably few decades behind Malaysia in an Economic perspective but politically they are few decades ahead.

with almost 96% of ppl in turkey r muslim,tell me will they face the same tension as we do ?

and tell me,which nation in this world will banned hijabs from parliament in the name of secularism?so it is fair to deny certain ppl rights in the name of your least guided system?

Well in that 96% you can divide it to few sects of Islam. They too have few other race other then Persians or caucasian look alike as you put it. They have Arabs and Kurds.

The two other country that ban any religion from the goverment is Singapore and France. I'm sure they are few more.

but how about their practises?ain't that discriminating to the main race too?what about that?care to pinpoint that?what about another race who rather stands inside the bus than sit next to lady with hijab.tell me,why this is not pinpointed?becoz after all,you only care about your own needs and others dont matter?what about certain ppl who think they are born to have twice the size of brain compare to other races? what about self-segration?

Well, clearly from your little stament above you do not have the ability to differentiate the meaning of Discrimination and Racism.

It is the individuals right to not sit next to a women who wears a hijab, it is the individuals right to think the other race have a smaller brain, it is the individuals right to not be friends with another race. It is the individuals right to be a racist bastard.

What you failed to mention is, The Policies of our elected (appointed?) goverment. In Malaysia they are many policies that were carved to Discriminate Non-Bumiputera, who are mostly non-Muslim as well.

When people point finger at badawi is because it where the problem lies.

Here's a simplification of the real Issue.

Fingers >>> Badawi>>>BN>>>UMNO

We don't hear Lim keat siang going around saying Hidup Cina! we dont see Karpal singh in the court saying Hidup Sikh!

What about Samy vellu? Or MCA leaders? I bet they say Cina bersatu! Cina Maju! right? wasnt that they campaign last year?

Well if the people we elect are just using race as a selling point and now we have Badawi crying? For what? He just realized how fucked up it has become?

There's a time bomb ticking and i hope we would not be to late to defuse it. Ignoring it is not a solution.

[misled_youth]

Here's a simplification of the real Issue.

Fingers >>> Badawi>>>BN>>>UMNO

Right on brother! Right on!

We don't hear Lim keat siang going around saying Hidup Cina! we dont see Karpal singh in the court saying Hidup Sikh!

What about Samy vellu? Or MCA leaders? I bet they say Cina bersatu! Cina Maju! right? wasnt that they campaign last year?

Race card played by DAP/Keadilan is subtle. Not meant to infuriate, but to allow their target demographics to reflect. It exists. Very unfortunate.

I assure you all, that DAP and Keadilan have race card. Even within the party, they are fragmented by skin colour.

I do not recall any slogans used by MCA that resembles "Hidup Melayu". They have heaps of "DAP=PAS" slogans though. As far as I know, MCA/MIC don't play race card that much. Look at their bigwigs, and you'll notice they win in Malay majority areas (Notable mentions Ong Tee Keat and Chua Jui Meng).

How do they do it? MCA is the most business linked political party in Malaysia. Go figure!

Well if the people we elect are just using race as a selling point and now we have Badawi crying? For what? He just realized how f***ed up it has become?

You see shifty, you must realise that people don't understand that the PEOPLE ARE THE BOSS. Gov meant to serve us. We pay them to run country. People should not be subservient to Gov.

That is why many of Malaysian scared of kutuk gov. They need to think out of the box.

This will happen in due time. For now comrade shifty, keep the faith! And when the time comes, I'll take you out see stripper in Hartamas.
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[littlebigone]

take me with you ...pleasssssseeeeeee!!!!!!!

But seriously, misled, you've created quite a discussion from a couple of tear drops.

I honestly don't know where I stand. As a chinese, I feel that definitely things are unfair. THat we were dealt a poor hand. That all this is just bullshit. As a kid, I had wanted to get out of the country to find a better place.

However, as a chinese also, I feel guilty. that my family, my friends, my neighbours are racists. It's not even the making fun of each other in jokes racist. I mean, you can't blame them. If you're being given shit and you don't have power you would just talk shit back.

I think that BN has played the race card for too long. I think that we are ready to accept each other. We lack trust. A big issue in relationships. And BN's policies are not helping in building that trust.

But noone is helping them either. Everyone is interested in their own good.....sigh...

Let's have a little mental exercise. Say we all meet up in Malaysia and decide to form a political party. PARTI BERSATU RECOM...or something like that.

What can we do to make our party the best party? What would we fight for? what would be our ideals? What would be our cause? Would we...intellects of the nation be able to comeup with a party that would satisfy everyone in Malaysia? Would we be able to reinvent Malaysia...make a genuinely united Malaysia?

I think we can. I don't know how though.

[The_Observer]

No politics for ReCom please....

[__earth]

No politics for ReCom please....

recom is about free speech.

[phantom]

plus,it should be neutral..

[chenchow]

I guess free speech in ReCom and perhaps, ideally in the entire society, would be that everyone is able to speak their mind, but they should be able to substantiate what they say, and not mere aspertions that were cast without justice or proof. And everyone should be responsible for what they say.

So, ReCom always welcome everyone to share your view point, opinion, idea. Everyone may look at issues differently, from different perspectives. Hence, even though we may not agree with everything others said, it is still an awareness built.

Hence, hope to hear more and more people speak and share their mind in ReCom and also in their usual life~!

[Schye]

But seriously, misled, you've created quite a discussion from a couple of tear drops.

I honestly don't know where I stand. As a chinese, I feel that definitely things are unfair. THat we were dealt a poor hand. That all this is just bullshit. As a kid, I had wanted to get out of the country to find a better place.

However, as a chinese also, I feel guilty. that my family, my friends, my neighbours are racists. It's not even the making fun of each other in jokes racist. I mean, you can't blame them. If you're being given shit and you don't have power you would just talk shit back.

I think that BN has played the race card for too long. I think that we are ready to accept each other. We lack trust. A big issue in relationships. And BN's policies are not helping in building that trust.

You posts are always so TRUE n straight to point, Kevin. I have the same feelings too when I see my freinds arounds making fun of other races, calling other races "khinzir", comparing their self with other races etc.
In fact, we can have tons of idea here but I bet there will be no progress as long as we have the words BUMI or non-BUMI. The best way to change a group of people is by law and constitution. Hence I think we should start from there which will again back to government selected by the people.
I think it's time that we need new political parties ... maybe littlebigone has given a not so good suggestion about "parti bersatu blablabla" but his points should be counted. Malaysia needs new government with new generation thoughts or maybe same parties with new directions.

[misled_youth]

plus,it should be neutral..

Hypocrite!

Some of you are so obviously brainwashed by BTN.

I propose that we established a Barisan Pembangkang ReCom (BPR, not to be confused with Badan Pencegah Rasuah). I nominate myself to be Sec Gen, and ThirdShifter to be Chairman.

Who's with us?
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[littlebigone]

No politics for ReCom please....

I don't know if you guys misunderstood me...but I wasn't trying to form a political party. It was just a mental exercise.

My purpose was to see what we could do to make a better Malaysia. If in fact there is a solution to the racial tensions in Malaysia.

We always complain that things are bad in Malaysia. But if we were given the power, could we make a difference.

[masterof_none]

plus,it should be neutral..

Hypocrite!

Some of you are so obviously brainwashed by BTN.

I propose that we established a Barisan Pembangkang ReCom (BPR, not to be confused with Badan Pencegah Rasuah). I nominate myself to be Sec Gen, and ThirdShifter to be Chairman.

Who's with us?

Misled, you sound more like a pembangkang in the Malaysian Parliament. Whenever people say something, they'll say, "hypocrite", "Tipuuuuu!!!" and stuff. sometimes it's interesting to see these people. I think there's a better way to express your disagreement, rather than following the pembangkang-style unnecessary derogatory remarks.

[misled_youth]

I think there's a better way to express your disagreement, rather than following the pembangkang-style unnecessary derogatory remarks.

You are just being hypersensitive. I didn't say anything derogatory.

Moderators Action: Edited, Flamming

Mods note: please keep things Adult. Name calling and blantant trolling is not welcomed here.


misled_youth:p
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[__earth]

Moderators Action: Edited, Flamming

guess sometimes, u need to play by the rule. :twisted:

[phantom]

plus,it should be neutral..

Hypocrite!

Some of you are so obviously brainwashed by BTN.

I propose that we established a Barisan Pembangkang ReCom (BPR, not to be confused with Badan Pencegah Rasuah). I nominate myself to be Sec Gen, and ThirdShifter to be Chairman.

Who's with us?


weih,sapa hypocrite?so anytime ppl went against your political affliation,you called them as being brainwashed urgh?what about you...so u r being so so smart,so rationale?

if u deserve attacking and debunking what you hated,why couldn't i deserve the same?

so if u wish i'm gonna listen and shut up,you better stay put in hell.

before anything,u have nomimate urself to be the sec gen..nampak sgt gila kuasa macam sial.

another typical rodomontade eying to lead others.nak pimpin diri sendiri pun tak mampu.

[misled_youth]

another typical rodomontade eying to lead others.nak pimpin diri sendiri pun tak mampu.

You asked for it UMNOputera!

This... means WAR!


BACK TO THE TOPIC:
I would like to reiterate that the PM's crocodile tears at the Khafir filled event is an insult to all Malaysians.
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[The_Observer]

Every dog has its day...
Every tree has its worm...

People say that in 1000 ppl there is bound to be a fool...
Guess we had found ours?

[budakkerek]

God..u guys wanna fight? be my guests...but keep your language clean..aite?
if misled_youth wanna shout, let him be. we need not stoop to his level :roll:

[kucingbiru]

Misled, you sound more like a pembangkang in the Malaysian Parliament. Whenever people say something, they'll say, "hypocrite", "Tipuuuuu!!!" and stuff. sometimes it's interesting to see these people. I think there's a better way to express your disagreement, rather than following the pembangkang-style unnecessary derogatory remarks.

wait, have u been to the parliament meeting or u heard it from the media?

are u sure that BN doest do the same thing?

[misled_youth]

God..u guys wanna fight? be my guests...but keep your language clean..aite?
if misled_youth wanna shout, let him be. we need not stoop to his level :roll:

Kerek-chan dah naik marah ni....

misled_youth chilling out for a while. Too much politics is reducing his sperm count.
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