The 10 dilemmas Malaysians face today

[jiinjoo]

Pauline Puah[/i] from http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/28929 - need login]The 10 dilemmas Malaysians face today: UKM lecturer
Aug 5, 04 11:40am

There are 10 salient dilemmas or contestations confronting the Malaysian people today, an academic revealed in her presentation at a forum in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday.

According to sociologist Dr Ong Puay Liu of Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM), the 10 salient dilemmas are:

1. The meaning of Malaysian
2. Malaysia for whom?
3. Who is a Malay?
4. What does Special Position as enshrined in the Federal Constitution mean?
5. What does Special Rights mean?
6. The position of the orang asli?
7. What is the Social Contract?
8. What do present-day Malaysians want?
9. How democratic is the space for people to articulate ideas and to participate meaningfully in the development of a Malaysian nation?
10. How to dismantle structural, psychological and social framework in the mindset and social life of Malaysians?

I thought I'd move this discussion here too, since it's probably one of the most highly debatable issues, and yet we have not found the answer yet.

I'll try to get permission to post the paper once the paper is finalized.

[chenchow]

On Question 9 in the article, "How democratic is the space for people to articulate ideas and to participate meaningfully in the development of a Malaysian nation?"

I read an article in International Herald Tribune today. It is about Lee Hsien Loong becoming Singapore PM, and IHT makes a comparison between independent online news portal in Singapore and Malaysia.

Singapore Broadcasting Authority required that the site "Not The Straits Times Forum" to be registered as a political Web site, and eventually it has to be shut down. On the other hand, despite some problems once some time back, Malaysiakini has been able to operate as usual.

What do you guys think on this issue? Do we, Malaysians get the opportunities, spaces to articulate idea that we want and also to participate meaningfully in the development of our country.

[noneedname]

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The damage has been done. As long as the culprit still has the power to rule the country, there are no second thoughts of returning back here. For vacations maybe, but even that will be full with hesitations.

To be honest, if dissatisfied people in this country have sufficient financial terms and non heavy commitments, I can bet every single one of them would have left this cursed land long time ago.

I just wonder if all the non malays are financially independent and just stayed at home enjoying life. The country under the "supreme" ruling of the malays and the outdated worthless NEP system, will crush itself like a 500 pound bitc h humping on an dying 100 years old guy.



Soon, the globe will be spread with Chinese!
They will be the ones who contribute to the progress of the host country.

They will be accepted,
rewarded
and
thanked
by their host country.



WHILE



the malay politicians will still be using:

Race
Religion
Special Rights

to tie their own countrymen down just to continue voting for them.

Some malay intellectuals will probably follow the footsteps of the Chinese.

The recalcitrants will be left behind to continue being (had) by the malay politicians.





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[misled_youth]

To be honest, if dissastified people in this country have sufficient financial terms and non heavy commitments, I can bet every single one of them would have left this cursed land long time ago.

I beg to differ. There is so far you can run.

I choose to stay and fight the good fight.

You sir, are a COWARD.

I am brave!..... and handsome! :P
________
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[Thirdshifter]

noneedname,

What is your solution to all this? Or your just going to be bitching about this untill your small pee pee falls off?

There's people who make a diferent and then there's you, Bitch and moan all day all night. Here's an Idea, If you truly feel you have to stand up and fight for your rights, you can start by slapping all the voters in your family who voted for the party which had done this to you.

The Blame game is getting old. You say Malays are lazy, get scholarships go to university and not deserve the place..

But when i was in Malaysia this month.. everytime o go to McDonald, KFC, or any other low paying fast food joints i see the majority of the workers are Malays. I mean it's hard work they can't be lazy because McD have to get your order done under 60 seconds.

I went to a factory in Penang and to my surprise, once again i see all malay workers coming out of the factory. What happen to them, arent they suppose to be in all the university chinese couldn't get into?

Then i went home, on the way i see these young Malay girl selling Kuih on the road side.. and i say Oh my fucking god.. A Malay girl with special rights selling kuih tepi jalan. This can't be true. Malays are suppose to be doing nothing.

ahh.. should i go on Mr Racist with small pee-pee?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

I choose to stay and fight the good fight.

Oh, you're not the only one misled.

[chenchow]

The Malaysian economy is contributed by everyone in the country. And to say that people of a certain races is not hardworking, is not smart etc will not help in any form.

Thirdshifter has quoted a number of good examples and if you really source for more examples, by walking in the streets of Malaysia, you will find more.

And how sure you are that Malaysian Chinese will migrate? Are you sure that Chinese abroad will be accepted, thanked and rewarded by their host country?

[MASTER]

noneedname,

What is your solution to all this? Or your just going to be b**** about this untill your small pee pee falls off?

There's people who make a diferent and then there's you, b**** and moan all day all night. Here's an Idea, If you truly feel you have to stand up and fight for your rights, you can start by slapping all the voters in your family who voted for the party which had done this to you.

The Blame game is getting old. You say Malays are lazy, get scholarships go to university and not deserve the place..

But when i was in Malaysia this month.. everytime o go to McDonald, KFC, or any other low paying fast food joints i see the majority of the workers are Malays. I mean it's hard work they can't be lazy because McD have to get your order done under 60 seconds.

I went to a factory in Penang and to my surprise, once again i see all malay workers coming out of the factory. What happen to them, arent they suppose to be in all the university chinese couldn't get into?

Then i went home, on the way i see these young Malay girl selling Kuih on the road side.. and i say Oh my f*** god.. A Malay girl with special rights selling kuih tepi jalan. This can't be true. Malays are suppose to be doing nothing.

ahh.. should i go on Mr Racist with small pee-pee?

OMFG...
another childish flaming by an moderator..
hahaha.
this is getting funny.
nice language you use here.

I like the way you bash up members

[Thirdshifter]

OMFG...
another childish flaming by an moderator..
hahaha.
this is getting funny.
nice language you use here.

I like the way you bash up members

As long as the message got to him. Sometime you have to talk differently to make some people understand.

[coolstudy]

Forty-seven years after Independence, the people of Malaysia are still searching for an identity. Are they malays or Muslims first; are they Chinese, Indians or Malaysians first?

This identity crisis is a result of the failure of the BN government, which has ruled Malaysia since independence in 1957, later as the expanded Barisan Nasional.

The truth is that the malays of this country partly owe their independence to the non-malays. The reason was that the British refused to give independence without an agreement from the non-malays.

Another argument put forth by the pro-malay special rights group is that, they made a compromise by giving the non-malays their citizenship and in exchange the malays must be given their special privileges.

This argument is the most ridiculous I have heard thus far but in their ignorance some Malaysians still think that citizenship is for a certain race to give. This logic would mean that the minorities will always be seen as foreigners who will never be equal to the malay bumis.

The Chinese and Indians must accept they are immigrants and they were given citizenships in 1957 on the agreement that the malays are given special rights and privileges.

Stretching your logic a bit further, are you also suggesting that in America, the Negroes continue to be slaves to the whites otherwise they give up US citizenship and go back to Africa?

This is stupid idiotic logic. Even if the so-called contract was valid, it was so only in the 50s and 60s.

We are nearly 50 years after Merdeka and all Chinese and Indians have begun citizens. They are no more bound by the so-called social contract which enslaved their ancestors.

Umno is afraid to give up Ketuanan melayu because it is bankrupt of ideas in competing with others in this 21st century democracy.

Umno's warped logic is that it is better for country to be backward so long as malays benefit than for country to prosper, where malays are marginalized.

This warped logic is in fact the beginning of the end of the malays who will never progress and compete with others on equal footing and level playing field, so long as they subscribe to Ketuanan melayu and have crutch mentality in forever relying on special privileges……….

Malays will crumble from internal weaknesses and disappear in era of globalization……….no need for others to colonize them as Mahathir had constantly raised this bogey.

My dad is a racist; so is my mom. Similarly racists are my brother, sister and relatives. All the Malaysian friends I now have are, and those I had were or at the least had been, racists too. Well, perhaps thanks to all these people, I have become - and remain - a racist as well.

You see, we are the members of a much larger community: Malaysia - the racist nation!

The term community is somewhat misleading. We are not united as such as a nation should be. We are only united by the fact that all of us - at one time or other - had been are or will become, racists......

All of us formally became racists in the year of 1971, when racism was institutionalised in Malaysia. Not that racism didn't exist before: it did; it lurked underneath, which --- as everyone knows --- erupted as the May 13 ethnic riots. Hence came the New Economic Policy, set up to divert the winds off the sails of racism. Ballasting the boat, and listing it in favour of the economically disadvantaged malay-Malaysians may lead to Malaysians seeing each other as equals, it was thought.

Then came the 80s, which also gave Dr Mahathir.

Still, racism remained somewhat otherworldly to me. All of us practiced racism, on the streets, in shops, in schools and in the house, but racism was never blatant - at least in my life. That changed as the 80s came to a close.

............

Please tell me, can anyone even imagine a multi-cultural Malaysian nation --- where no one discriminates the other on the basis of race, where everyone treats the other as a brother or sister - being run by the same racist parties that exist now? Is such a future even conceptually possible?

It is time for me to descend to earth and crawl back into my racist carapace, and be a realist again. And heap praises on our nation and on the ideals that are so central to its psyche: long live, racism! Long live, racist Malaysia - the model racist nation!

It is no wonder our civil participation is as backward as it is.

Do you have any idea why Singapore is almost the first world country or 20 years better than Malaysia?

One could argue every country has its own policies and laws that place prejudice on certain parties - yes, that is true, but none so shamefully as those who (Malaysia) not only boast about it, take the credit for the successes of these people whom they slam their discriminatory abuses on, and have no intention to change it (and that said with a smug look on the face).

Bangsa Malaysia? Bah, humbug!

[jiinjoo]

Hello coolstudy, haven't met you before, so let me extend my warm welcome to you on behalf of the ReCom community.

In one day you posted passionately on 10 treads - all points taken, possibly 90% of what you said has been discussed on the forum from time to time.

However I would still like to answer to some of your statements, which are stereotypical and/or irrational. In any case, I'm just offering another point of view.

Forty-seven years after Independence, the people of Malaysia are still searching for an identity. Are they malays or Muslims first; are they Chinese, Indians or Malaysians first?
Identity search for a country is very different from the age of the country. Britain and France are both in a identity searching state too. They were once the most powerful nations on Earth, now they are unwillingly part of a union that's trying to save their own face. Malaysia might have gone through a soul searching stage at one point of time (that led to our independence) but from time to time, we have ride the waves of change and rethink and reidentify. Racial identification has unanimously been voted an expired political trump card at least on this forum. So move on if you please.

The truth is that the malays of this country partly owe their independence to the non-malays. The reason was that the British refused to give independence without an agreement from the non-malays.
History is where we learn our lessons, not where we seek revenge, and not where we seek tomorrow's goal. Evaluate where we must go based on what we have today, and where we want to be tomorrow. Special priviledges needs to be eradicated for tomorrow's Malaysia - take that as a given, and go out there and make a difference. There no use arguing whether there should have or should not have been special priviledges.

When I originally put up this post, we were in conversation with social scholars in UKM. The questions she was askin was not an attempt to draw a straight line from yesterday's Malaysia till today, and extrapolating that. We are to reevaluate today's position, decide on what it is for tomorrow, then draw a straight line that way.

Umno is afraid to give up Ketuanan melayu because it is bankrupt of ideas in competing with others in this 21st century democracy.
Political parties around the world is certainly much more complex than that. To say that the inability for a political party like UMNO to compete with other political parties such as PAS is the cause for Ketuanan Melayu to live stronger is like saying that the inability for McDonalds to compete with Burger King is the cause for McDonalds to use addictives in their food, so that their customers always come back.

This is very small world now. Your typical 14 year old kid in Kelantan would already have some form of Internet access by now and they too are exposed to the world and how it works. They all can read and explore ideas with people of vastly different thoughts, including people from this very forum, ReCom. If they continue to insist on voting for the party that promises Ketuanan Melayu when they grow up, they must have seen a better picture, a better future. In some sense we bear the responsibility to do the research and set the record straight on why most of us on this platform prefer it otherwise, and the prove that everyone will be better off.

My dad is a racist; so is my mom. Similarly racists are my brother, sister and relatives. All the Malaysian friends I now have are, and those I had were or at the least had been, racists too. Well, perhaps thanks to all these people, I have become - and remain - a racist as well.
Try making some friends here on ReCom then. I'm sure of the 2 years I've been on and off reading and posting that I found people who are totally opposite, people who abhors the very mention of a racist comment.

That said, I invite you to ask yourself if you can be otherwise. Do you have a friend who is of another race? Do you think of him or her as coming from another race? If so what is the difference? Now, think about what common traits you share. Get him or her out and chat, how many things you all agree on? You'd be surprised how much in common you share, separated typically only by the language barrier and the color of the skin.

Please tell me, can anyone even imagine a multi-cultural Malaysian nation --- where no one discriminates the other on the basis of race, where everyone treats the other as a brother or sister - being run by the same racist parties that exist now? Is such a future even conceptually possible?

YES.

I said this many times: It took the United States of America 250 years since independence and at least one major civil war before they are where they are today, where racism is totally suppressed officially, where general education emphacises the core value of equality, and so on and so forth.

But we can't sit here for 250 year for this to happen. If you want this to happen you have to act now, starting from yourself. You can do it if you think this is something that can be look forward to (or "conceptually possible" as the way you put it). I don't know where you reside and I cannot meet you face to face and bring you to your utopia right now, but I can show you a platform that have people who are trying to get this new "concept" in their mind.

Take it one step at a time. Stop being a racist yourself.

Do you have any idea why Singapore is almost the first world country or 20 years better than Malaysia?
If there's an answer to this, it is NOT the lack of racism, probably more of the institutionalization of it. This, I can show you someday if you come visit me in S'pore. I'll show you the hallmarks of their success and how it can actually be built on racism, all long as it doesn't harm one thing -> meritocracy.

[youngyew]

Britain and France are both in a identity searching state too. They were once the most powerful nations on Earth, now they are unwillingly part of a union that's trying to save their own face.
Do you mean the European Union? Mind telling me more about the "saving face"?


I said this many times: It took the United States of America 250 years since independence and at least one major civil war before they are where they are today, where racism is totally suppressed officially, where general education emphacises the core value of equality, and so on and so forth.
Is racism eradicated in United States? As far as I have learnt, yes, from the surface there is no more racism in the United States; but deep inside the heart people still label people according to their skin colour and give different treatment to the other colours.

[PJKru]

enough with the malay bashing. You cant compare the racist slavery era in the usa to the afirmative action policies of malaysia.

[sabishii]

enough with the malay bashing. You cant compare the racist slavery era in the usa to the afirmative action policies of malaysia.

shouldn't we be looking at people who are better than us in order to improve?
so a corollary from your thought would be to compare ourselves with countries that are apparantly worst off than ourselves to make us content with our current state? sorry if i misintepreted your thread.

[PJKru]

enough with the malay bashing. You cant compare the racist slavery era in the usa to the afirmative action policies of malaysia.

shouldn't we be looking at people who are better than us in order to improve?
so a corollary from your thought would be to compare ourselves with countries that are apparantly worst off than ourselves to make us content with our current state? sorry if i misintepreted your thread.

And who in your opinion is better than us? Its not always possible to apply the principles that other countries use to benefit themselves to others such as us. For every idea you have to balance the pros and cons of turning that idea into a reality.

[sabishii]

btw, i love jiinjoo's post. i admire his enthusiasm and faith in the country. i once thought that there's still lots of hope in changing the nation too. only to later find that reality likes to play harsh jokes on our dreams.

i'm rather pessimistic and discouraged by the current situation in m'sia. besides discussing about the problems that we're currently facing, are there more practical things that we could do as individuals? not really talking about voting rights at the moment, eventhough that would seem to be the one logical choice to make a difference. it's just too risky. any other alternatives? suggestions anyone?

[PJKru]

i notice trust problems between all the people. Chinese are scared of malay fundamentality in religion. There needs to be a balance.

[sabishii]

malays are scared of chinese dominance politically and economically. Chinese are scared of malay fundamentality in religion.

you might want to rephrase that. since when are chinese scared of malay fundamentality in religion again? or maybe it's just me that doesn't think so. pls elaborate.

i guess the lack of trust stems from the lack of understanding. without further understanding of the 'other race', we tend to stereotype people into categories. note that by using the term 'other race' i'm already identifying myself with 'my race'. it's all these 'you' and 'i' concept that's making people feel uncomfortable.

[PJKru]

well i've noticed the majority of malaysian chinese who post here are against islam cos it involves a jihadist mentality(ie purifying the soul from tthings forbidden in the religion) . Islam doesnt promote values which are dear to the chinese such as eating pork, drinking alcohol and gambling. All three are forbidden in islam and because of those three issues chinese dont look at islam. But islam has so much more to offer.

[PJKru]

i dont like you and us either. its all about trust.

[Salvation]

well i've noticed the majority of malaysian chinese who post here are against islam cos it involves a jihadist mentality(ie purifying the soul from tthings forbidden in the religion) . Islam doesnt promote values which are dear to the chinese such as eating pork, drinking alcohol and gambling. All three are forbidden in islam and because of those three issues chinese dont look at islam. But islam has so much more to offer.

Frankly, I don't think we are against Islam.
You said that eating pork, drinking alcohol and gambling and dear to chinese, I have to say that while we chinese eat pork, none in my family gamble and none in my family drinks alcohol, so its not very dear to me, or the chinese actually. People from all races drinks and gambles, and there are not exclusive to the chinese alone.

[lyzzy]

well i've noticed the majority of malaysian chinese who post here are against islam cos it involves a jihadist mentality(ie purifying the soul from tthings forbidden in the religion) . Islam doesnt promote values which are dear to the chinese such as eating pork, drinking alcohol and gambling. All three are forbidden in islam and because of those three issues chinese dont look at islam. But islam has so much more to offer.

or maybe, some people are sacred of islam because of people like you , who have condescending attitudes, stereotype other races, and says: "every other religion or race is bad, because EVERYONE gambles, drinks alcohol, and eats pork (which is not a moral wrong, btw, it's just a religion thing). that's why islam is much better, and that's why we are better than you, and that's why, in order to be better, you must join islam."

btw, chinese is a race, not a religion.
________
BMW R27 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_R27)

[gonjeng]

the discussion has gone far from its topic. it should be about dilemma faced by the malaysians, in general... it has, in my opinion, nothing to do with how chinese are, how malays are...

[PJKru]

well i've noticed the majority of malaysian chinese who post here are against islam cos it involves a jihadist mentality(ie purifying the soul from tthings forbidden in the religion) . Islam doesnt promote values which are dear to the chinese such as eating pork, drinking alcohol and gambling. All three are forbidden in islam and because of those three issues chinese dont look at islam. But islam has so much more to offer.

or maybe, some people are sacred of islam because of people like you , who have condescending attitudes, stereotype other races, and says: "every other religion or race is bad, because EVERYONE gambles, drinks alcohol, and eats pork (which is not a moral wrong, btw, it's just a religion thing). that's why islam is much better, and that's why we are better than you, and that's why, in order to be better, you must join islam."

btw, chinese is a race, not a religion. You're probably right. I didnt say every other religion or race is bad. If you knew me then you'd have to eat those words. I didnt say everyone who gambles eats pork or drinks alchool is bad. in fact i was just saying that it is something that most take the piss out of muslims for. They're sarchastic when they say "oh do you want to gamble or eat pork, oh you cant do that can you?" then turn their noses up at the muslims. i said theres more to islam than the prohibitions. Im not saying you must join islam, its not about being better than you. Ive got a life you know. if you want to join then it is good. if you dont then im not going to hurt you for it or even stop being your friend or work collegue for it. You really jumped to way more conclusions than i did. Although i might have been generalising chinese people a bit. Maybe i should have said the ignorant uneducated kind of non muslim has these attitudes about islam. I shouldnt say chinese people. i was wrong there.

[digimushu]

Back to the point, as a Malaysian that has been educated overseas, i would say that the biggest dilemma i have is:

Do I want to go back?

As a Malaysian, I am categorized as Chinese in ethnicity and do not stand a chance in getting promotions or higher pay as opposed to Bumiputras. I know that i can never count on the government to cover my back if i fail and I can never ask for more money from the government as even the MCA, which was supposed to convey my wishes are busy giving UMNO a hummer.

In the foreign country, I am seen as a Malaysian first, and a Chinese later in foreign countries, where they have a preference for workers who are born in their country or have green cards. I stand no chance whatsoever in getting a job that is related to my research.

The thing that is wrong with this is that I am judged as an second class citizen in my own country, where i have no chance if i am competing against bumis and in foreign countries, I am judged as a foeigner who does not belong there. Either place, I am not welcomed. Tell me, where should I go?

[topdog]

As a Malaysian, I am categorized as Chinese in ethnicity and do not stand a chance in getting promotions or higher pay as opposed to Bumiputras.
don't you think you're being overly pessimistic? though in asking this i have to admit that i'm being a little disingenuous since i would never choose to start my career in malaysia if i had a choice. not so much because of the reasons you mentioned, but i just think that to make a difference, i need to have shitloads of money and/or experience (esp. at a global level). if i start working in msia right now i'll probably just be washed away by the currents of The System, whether i'm chinese, malay or whatever.

[digimushu]

Yep, i know it sounds pessimistic, but Malaysia is the very very last place you want to be stuck in if you are working in R&D. We want to move ahead and be a R&D country but we always end up screwing up the vision. Look at the MSC and the Biovalley, where has that gone?

I have friends who are professors in M'sia right now and they have been telling me that their proposals are not given any priority by the government just because they are not of the right race. Plus, they are constantly in fear of being fired for stating their political opinions. Companies in M'sia are not competitive enough to start funding R&D so, how would you get money to fund your projects?

I know racial policies are the direct action of us supporting racial politics. It's a self sustaining process that continues to plague us today. Another friend of mine has a translation business, and he was offered the contract to do translation for the anniversary booklet of a government agency. However, when the booklet was published, he was not allowed to put "translated by 'his company's name' " on the cover page because it was not a bumiputra company. He had two choices, insist on putting the name on the cover and not get the job or shut his mouth up ,do his work quietly and get paid. It results in credit not being given where it is due.

Malaysia is not a bad place, but i really dislike the fact that no matter how smart or hardworking I am, I am treated no differently than a foreigner in a foreign country, where i am judged by the color of my skin before my own abilities. Do you think it is right? I let you be the judge.

[ck]

We cannot hide for the fact that there is racial preferences in Malaysia. But the problem here is that government refuse to acknowlege it. Come on, do we all think only Malaysia does it or what?

I have friends who are professors in M'sia right now and they have been telling me that their proposals are not given any priority by the government just because they are not of the right race. Plus, they are constantly in fear of being fired for stating their political opinions.

No doubt, other races would want equality in terms of opportunities in Malaysia. But with the education system, racial preference and quota, our best brain/students/ experts are being tap away by other countries. As a nations, we are not doing the very best to retains these peoples.

It may not be right, but life will have to move. As long as Malays see the other races as a threat, the scenario will remain the same.

[spanker]

Hmm.... I would've thought the terrible driving manners of malaysians would be one of the top 10 dilemma. Can you imagine what would a foreigner think when they try to cross the road of a supposedly developing country?

Personally, I've seen them reel back in shock when they're trying to cross the road at a traffic light junction when cars continously beat the red light.