What Should I do after SPM

[LWSiang]

i m a science stream student who is going to sit for SPM end of this month
my forecast results:
BM-A-
BI-A
BC-A
Add maths-A
Maths-A
Chemistry-A-
Biology-A-
Physics-A
History-A+
Moral-A+

i dont know whether i should continue to study science stream or shift to art stream after SPM...........
if i move to art stream i will consider to take accountancy, what pre-U course should i take that can finally further my study to overseas? and is there any schorlarship available for accountancy?
if i choose to continue science stream, i think i will more prefer to do engineering. if i take A-levels what r the subject i must take?

Thx:)

[kkhong]

Hi LWSiang, good to see that you actually know what you want. You shouldn't seperate the subject into art and science, because nowadays both are starting to complement each other, and you need knowledge in both fields.

The 2 choice you have now is Accounting or Engineering. What you need to do now is not to see what the scholarships offers, but see what you see yourself in 20 years times. Will you enjoy your life as accountant or engineer?

I am a Mechanical Engineering student, and my brother is an accountant. So I think I am a good candidate to tell you what you can expect.

Judging by your forecast result, I think you are a good student. So I guess you want to excel in career also, but in what sense? You want good money, doing something for people or a relaxed life? you can't choose all so you need to know what give you the sense of satisfaction.

As an accountant most probably you work for an accounting firm, like Ernst and Young, or PriceWaterHouseCooper, or any Big4 company. I can tell you that the pay is good, but you must also expect stressful workload.

As an Engineer than it will depend on what type of engineer you are, because engineering field is too wide. For me, I am aiming for consultation firm with R&D, such company are AECOM, Panasonic, Accenture and so on. The good thing is that life will not be routined and I get to 'play' with many stuff. However, the pay is not as much as an accountant and it's better to have a Master or phD for the R&D field.

A-levels and STPM are usually for student who have not yet decide what to do. Since you know what you want, you might as well join a pre-U program and you can start your degree right after that, without wasting plenty of time.

Sunway has a good pre-U accounting program with overseas opportunities. Unless you are sure the A-level can take you to a good overseas university (not all overseas uni are good), then you might as well choose a pre-U engineering program also. If you insist, certain uni such as Nottingham provide twinning program, meaning you spent a few years locally, then a few years abroad.

I wish you all the best! Make malaysia proud!

[miemoe]

hey guys! :D i'm also as same as you LWSiang, im sitting for spm next 2 weeks haha. my trial result quite as same as you also, straight A but im still scared for spm :S

oh btw i'm kinda into mathematics and i like to travel haha so i hope seniors also can suggest options of careers that suit me.

im thinking about accountant and engineering too, but i think i'll pass the engineering because i dont think im into that stuff haha im not innovative enough to invent something plus im not good at drawing! haha.

i want a career that i enjoy doing it and the same time good incomes :D i was thinking about actuarist but people said it is damn hard :S

anyhow thanks in advance :))

[Glassylicious]

The highest-paying jobs mostly involve the corporate/finance sector. Investment banking, corporate law, etc. Interested in any of those?

[Nicholasng925]

oh btw i'm kinda into mathematics and i like to travel haha so i hope seniors also can suggest options of careers that suit me.

i want a career that i enjoy doing it and the same time good incomes :D i was thinking about actuarist but people said it is damn hard :S

anyhow thanks in advance :))

Actuarial Science is undoubtedly one of the toughest courses available, and is suitable for people who loves Maths like you, however not all people who loves Maths are capable to study it. Generally Maths itself comprises of Pure Maths, Mechanics and Statistics. People who loves Statistics have huge advantage since they have interest lies within it, but if you study it just cause of high incomes, in the end you'd only be suffering in the process of passing the professional papers. Well, go for it if you think you can endure the challenge!

[LWSiang]

ok..........
IF what i want is a good pay, then which 1 should i choose?
i heard that sunway accountancy graduates normally earnes
about RM 2500-3000 when they start working in those "Big Fives" accounting firm( Ernst & Young, PricewaterhouseCoopers, KPMG, Deloitte and BDO Binde)
how about engineers like civil engineer, mechanical Engineers??

[Dominic]

if i move to art stream i will consider to take accountancy, what pre-U course should i take that can finally further my study to overseas? and is there any schorlarship available for accountancy?
if i choose to continue science stream, i think i will more prefer to do engineering. if i take A-levels what r the subject i must take?

Thx:)

JPA offers scholarships for Accountancy in NZ, Australia and the UK. You'll do your foundation locally (AUSMAT) for 1.5 years, then go abroad for 3 years. I'm currently doing Accounting under JPA so if you have any queries don't be shy to ask. :laugh

PS : I used to be a science stream student also. :)

[LWSiang]

the problem is i didn`t take accounts in my SPM...........
i dont think the JPA will consider giving me this schorlarship
i heard that they seldom give the schorlarship for accounting to science stream student(what i learn is that they will only consider giving u if u take both accounting and economics in SPM)

[cycycy]

the problem is i didn`t take accounts in my SPM...........
i dont think the JPA will consider giving me this schorlarship
i heard that they seldom give the schorlarship for accounting to science stream student(what i learn is that they will only consider giving u if u take both accounting and economics in SPM)

JPA has its conditions, 'sekurang-kurangnya' how many As from a list of subjects for each course, but I forgot the details. No, economics in SPM is not a prerequisite for JPA accounting. My classmate got accounting in Australia, and she only took prinsip akaun as an additional subject.

[LWSiang]

hi dominic, can u kindly shared with us about the details of the JPA scholarship u got:

country offered:
SPM Results:-
Top Achievement in Sports:-
Top Achievement in Co-Curricular Activiites:-
Top Achievement in Other Achievements:-
Family Income (<5k, 5-10k, >10k):-

Interview Topic:-
Resources you use to prepare:-
Tips for future year students:-
(Feel free to include more info)

thx a lot =)

[Glassylicious]

ok..........
IF what i want is a good pay, then which 1 should i choose?
i heard that sunway accountancy graduates normally earnes
about RM 2500-3000 when they start working in those "Big Fives" accounting firm( Ernst & Young, PricewaterhouseCoopers, KPMG, Deloitte and BDO Binde)
how about engineers like civil engineer, mechanical Engineers??

Insider information tells me that the Big Fives work you like hell though. Expect to pull stunts like all-nighters during tax season.

Again, if you REALLY want the money, corporate stuff is the way to go. Investments, fund management, corporate law, mergers and acquisitions, etc. They'll probably work you like hell too, but at least the pay will be a lot better. Salary-wise, accounting in the Big Five is not at all bad, but if you're going to put in THAT amount of time into your work anyway, you might as well work a job that pays more for all the overtime you'll be working.

[kkhong]

ok..........
IF what i want is a good pay, then which 1 should i choose?
i heard that sunway accountancy graduates normally earnes
about RM 2500-3000 when they start working in those "Big Fives" accounting firm( Ernst & Young, PricewaterhouseCoopers, KPMG, Deloitte and BDO Binde)
how about engineers like civil engineer, mechanical Engineers??

well, if you want good pay, I can guarantee you that engineer earn less than accountant. haha..

But the starting pay for both is almost the same, engineer like me have starting pay of Rm2700. However, the salary of accountant 'climb' faster than engineer. CIMB bank provide Rm3000++ for good fresh grad.

But seriously, you should think what type of job you will really enjoy. I command higher pay than most of my friends, but my friend enjoy the work more than I do. So who do you think have better life?

[xiandagreat]

Hello,

Just thought to let you know tht I am a Petronas Scholar and now I am studying my Pre U and will be majoring in Geophysics in the US. Try to apply for Petronas Scholarship if you are interested in engineering course.

If you have any questions and doubts about Petronas Scholarship, feel free to pm me.

[LWSiang]

anyway............
my brother is currently study his Bachelor of Chemical Engineering (Honours) in NUS
he told me that chemical engineer normally earn the highest among the engineers, the starting salary is about S$3000 how about in Malaysia? is it possible that engineers can earn RM10k++ per month?

[Glassylicious]

anyway............
my brother is currently study his Bachelor of Chemical Engineering (Honours) in NUS
he told me that chemical engineer normally earn the highest among the engineers, the starting salary is about S$3000 how about in Malaysia? is it possible that engineers can earn RM10k++ per month?

Yes, you can get a 5 figure salary if you work as an engineer at one of the bigger firms. E.g. YTL. But insider information tells me that you usually only hit the RM10K salary bracket after maybe 8 to 10 years working. It's the same for a lot of jobs. Five figures for most professional careers are definitely possible, but you need to have worked a good number of years to get to that stage. =) So this is why people say "Find a job that you like to do", because working 10 years in a job you don't like, just to reach that kind of income isn't a nice idea.

[Dominic]

the problem is i didn`t take accounts in my SPM...........
i dont think the JPA will consider giving me this schorlarship
i heard that they seldom give the schorlarship for accounting to science stream student(what i learn is that they will only consider giving u if u take both accounting and economics in SPM)

Nope, some of the people in my class (who got the same scholarship) didn't take Accounting and Economics in SPM. So you definitely have a good chance. And I myself did not take Economics :)

hi dominic, can u kindly shared with us about the details of the JPA scholarship u got:

country offered:
SPM Results:-
Top Achievement in Sports:-
Top Achievement in Co-Curricular Activiites:-
Top Achievement in Other Achievements:-
Family Income (<5k, 5-10k, >10k):-

Interview Topic:-
Resources you use to prepare:-
Tips for future year students:-
(Feel free to include more info)

thx a lot =)

I replied in a PM. Check it out. :)

[Boyz_Zoo]

anyway............
my brother is currently study his Bachelor of Chemical Engineering (Honours) in NUS
he told me that chemical engineer normally earn the highest among the engineers, the starting salary is about S$3000 how about in Malaysia? is it possible that engineers can earn RM10k++ per month?
well, RM10k++ per month as a starting salary probably no, but d more experience u hv, d higher d possibly for u 2 get such a salary provided tat u work with quite a large company.

however, i dun think u should compare d salary btw msi n singapore as d lifestyles r different due 2 d cost of living.

[acgerlok7]

The highest-paying jobs mostly involve the corporate/finance sector. Investment banking, corporate law, etc. Interested in any of those?

glassy...corporate law and investment actually intrigues me quite alot...haha.=)

[Glassylicious]

glassy...corporate law and investment actually intrigues me quite alot...haha.=)

Woohoo! If you survive for 7 to 10 years in any of these fields [and thus become partner of a firm], expect yearly bonuses amounting anywhere from 300K to slightly more than a million. In London, it's easily half a million pounds for a yearly bonus for partners of a firm. And this figure does not include your monthly salary.

[sleevelesssky]

I have nothing much to say, just want to share this quote with you:


"If you're not honest about what you want, your pleasures, you'll turn into one of those freaks...you know, the people who have hobbies." - Dylan Moran

There is no such thing as a 'career' or a 'job'. Life is all about doing what you want to do (and you'd better be hell good at that).

[Sillyboy]

I have nothing much to say, just want to share this quote with you:


"If you're not honest about what you want, your pleasures, you'll turn into one of those freaks...you know, the people who have hobbies." - Dylan Moran

There is no such thing as a 'career' or a 'job'. Life is all about doing what you want to do (and you'd better be hell good at that).

I am one of the freaks!

[youngyew]

I find the line by Dylan Moran a bit too simplistic. Yes it's perfect to choose things you like as a career, but to imply people with hobbies as people who fail to pursue a career in their interest seems to me that he doesn't know anyone with more than one interest.

[Alexis Ma]

I can't seem to find that quote by Dylan Moran. I was wondering whether it had a context I could not fully appreciate.

Anyway, taking it at a purely superficial level, I have to agree with Youngyew. It's not too pragmatic. Being honest about your interests doesn't immediately mean you can translate it into a stable job at the end of the day. Insinuating that interests which end up as hobbies are basically unfulfilled is quite unjustified.

A hobby is perfectly fine. Otherwise, the world would be something like 25% video game testers, don't you think?

[youngyew]

And of course we all know Google employees are all expected to devote 20% of their time in their "hobbies".

[sleevelesssky]

Over-interpretation as expected - you amuse me. (I didn't expect that from youngyew though)

He is most probably trying to say that moulding one's passion into a career is better than keeping it as a hobby. Note that he is a comedian famous for his sarcastic humor.

Google and a pinch of salt will help a lot in this case.

"It's not too pragmatic. Being honest about your interests doesn't immediately mean you can translate it into a stable job at the end of the day. Insinuating that interests which end up as hobbies are basically unfulfilled is quite unjustified."

1. Being honest about your interests is not too pragmatic.
2. because it doesn't immediately mean you can translate it into a stable job at the end of the day.

Being honest about your interest=not too pragmatic=stable job at the end of the day

Pragmatic=stable job

That would be a sweeping statement. It seems to me that you imply people who work hard to grow their interest into a career are being idealistic, and somehow foolishly so. Do clarify.

[Glassylicious]

On a slightly different tack, that statement fails to account for people who have a wide variety of interests and clearly can't pursue a career in everything. Of course, I think the underlying point Ian was trying to make is that the statement was meant in jest and should be taken to be so.

[youngyew]

Ya I figured that was most likely spoken in jest after finding out that he's a comedian. The joke just didn't quite resonate well with me :P

But still sleevelesssky you haven't explained why the only result in google containing this line is this very page. :P

On a slightly different tack, that statement fails to account for people who have a wide variety of interests and clearly can't pursue a career in everything. Of course, I think the underlying point Ian was trying to make is that the statement was meant in jest and should be taken to be so.
Couldn't have said it better myself. My problem with that line is not so much about the sarcasm and exaggeration (George Carlin is my favourite comedian, to illustrate the point), it's more to do with the fact that after taking away the sarcasm his point is still not quite valid. :)

But of course at the end of the day I am probably making a fuss mainly because I have lots of hobbies outside medicine. :D

[Alexis Ma]

Over-interpretation as expected - you amuse me. (I didn't expect that from youngyew though)

He is most probably trying to say that moulding one's passion into a career is better than keeping it as a hobby. Note that he is a comedian famous for his sarcastic humor.

Google and a pinch of salt will help a lot in this case.

"It's not too pragmatic. Being honest about your interests doesn't immediately mean you can translate it into a stable job at the end of the day. Insinuating that interests which end up as hobbies are basically unfulfilled is quite unjustified."

1. Being honest about your interests is not too pragmatic.
2. because it doesn't immediately mean you can translate it into a stable job at the end of the day.

Being honest about your interest=not too pragmatic=stable job at the end of the day

Pragmatic=stable job

That would be a sweeping statement. It seems to me that you imply people who work hard to grow their interest into a career are being idealistic, and somehow foolishly so. Do clarify.

I am glad that I amuse you, my dear. Putting sunshine into others' lives is my priority. SUNSHINE SQUAD PEWPEW

The choice for me here was whether to over-analyse and be nitpicky, or to just let that that quote run. I chose the former because I believed that at the crux of the issue was a very simple message: "Try to make your interest into your profession". I can hardly disagree with that. Interest will give you the edge you need in your field, and also make sure you enjoy your work and life in general.

Of course, as usual, that needed a word of caution: "You might not be able to succeed in making your interest your profession. Most people don't, in fact, but live perfectly decent lives regardless".

Regarding the implications of what I said and how my statement was well-dissected, I suppose I should have written it in clearer, simpler words. I've re-packaged my message in this post, I hope it's acceptable now.

I think we've all digressed at this point, and we're arguing over something which is common sense. Worse still, I think I haven't said anything to help LWSiang, which is what this topic is all about.

LWSiang, your results look decent. That's good. You wont have any trouble getting into any program that you want. Two things:

First, please don't think about this until AFTER the SPM. Believe me, your time would be much better spent with your books.

Secondly, I'd advise you to ask your seniors. Ask someone who's now studying to be an accountant. Ask someone who's on his way to becoming an engineer. A person 1 year your senior should have good information about scholarships and pre-university programmes. A person more than 1 year your senior will have information on the future prospects of the profession, the qualities of different universities, and so forth.

Don't place your hopes on the forums alone. You'd be better off speaking face-to-face or chatting on MSN. Frankly, all that information will be quite difficult to type out in one spot, though it's done regularly in ReCom, after the SPM. So get back to your books :)

[sleevelesssky]

youngyew

But still sleevelesssky you haven't explained why the only result in google containing this line is this very page.

I C&P-ed that quote from FB - my friend Jeremy Fernando (yes that equally humorous NTU fellow). I do not know where he got that quote. My bad XD

But of course at the end of the day I am probably making a fuss mainly because I have lots of hobbies outside medicine.

Chill. I was not offended/annoyed at all upon reading the quote despite the fact that I am an aspiring Renaissance Man. Why should you? Try not to take things too seriously - squinting between the lines is just...absurdly funny.

Refer to my argument below.

Alexis Ma

Of course, as usual, that needed a word of caution: "You might not be able to succeed in making your interest your profession. Most people don't, in fact, but live perfectly decent lives regardless".

Nothing wrong with not succeeding in "making your interest your profession" and thus living "perfectly decent lives" with a successful career (presumably). However that, for me, would be an average life. Yes, to determine whether one is living a average/decent life is highly subjective (as success is relative), but why let interest(s) remain as hobby(ies) when there is the potential to make it big (as in pushing your interest(s) to a greater level of recognition by others)? Greater is a vague term to be used here but I will leave it just that.

Just my principles. Note that I have no intention whatsoever to distinguish between a professional and an amateur (to distinguish profession and hobby). I am merely arguing on the fact that 'hobbies'/other interests can grow much bigger and potentially bring more success in our lives if we do take such 'hobbies'/other interests seriously (as serious as we would perceive our career, job, et cetera)

OK, back to the quote. What I believe Dylan Moran is trying to convey is that multi-talented people (in this case, people with many interests - narrowly speaking) have to constantly remind themselves whether their interests are genuine enough for them to pursue further, or else they would risk fulfilling the prophecy of jack of all trades, master of none'. Which has nothing to do with the interest/profession argument.

(Anyway the full phrase should be "Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one" - maybe that would help explain things better?) I apologize for digressing so far.

LWSiang

LWSiang, you stand a very good chance in securing a corporate/government scholarship if you are doing equally excellent in your co-curricular activities (additionally, having a leadership position in school is a plus point as we all know).

Do feel free to contact any one of us here on ReCom should you have any enquiries. (However I agree with Alexis that face-to-face conversation would benefit you greatly in terms of selecting your future pre-university programme/degree/career) May lady luck bless you in your future undertakings! ^_^

[henry_yew]

I'll speak in terms of engineering.

If you want to make a difference in the world, it's engineering that makes the differences (it's true!). Engineers literally build and shape the world that we live in today.

But if you are talking about pay, it depends on which company you join, and which type of engineering are you into.

I can tell you for sure that PETRONAS pays its fresh graduates RM4000 per month. Other companies like Baker Hughes, Schlumberger, Newfield, Leap Energy, etc. may pay more.

But did you notice that these are all oil-and-gas companies? Yes, oil-and-gas companies pay extremely well, therefore if you are interested in oil and gas then you might want to consider doing petroleum engineering. There are many universities abroad, especially in the US, that offer a Bachelor degree in Petroleum Engineering. Try universities like Texas Tech University, Texas A&M University and University of Texas at Austin. The Gulf of Mexico is just nearby, so yeah, you know....

Still, you need to realise that you do not need to be a petroleum engineer in order to work in an oil-and-gas company. Civil engineers and mechanical engineers can also work in oil-and-gas companies, and may also participate in petroleum engineering work. However, the opportunities of going offshore are quite limited, I would say. The bulk of the money earned is actually while you are offshore. On top of the, say, RM4000 basic pay, you get extra allowances for being offshore; this is known as "hardship allowance". Let me give a conjecture that if you are paid RM50 an hour for being offshore and you work eight hours a day, you will earn an extra RM400 per day. Assuming that you work offshore for two weeks per month, that will be 14 x RM 400 = RM5600. Add that to your basic pay, and the rest is just mathematics.

Other companies like Schlumberger are known to be good paymasters, but they expect lots of work from you, too. In engineering, though, nothing is routine.

If it is money that you are looking for, then engineering pays you well, too, actually. The moment you earn the title "Ir." or the suffix "P.Eng" you are on your way to making tonnes of money in no time. Of course, you need to have business acumen, too.

[Glassylicious]

Yeah, but the entire point youngyew and I were trying to make is that there is simply nothing inherently wrong in being a jack of all trades and master of none. ;) Why do you assume that it would be bad?

[henry_yew]

Haha, I was actually replying to LWSiang's first post. I didn't realise that there was already such an extensive discussion when I wrote my reply. :P

[Glassylicious]

Haha, I was actually replying to LWSiang's first post. I didn't realise that there was already such an extensive discussion when I wrote my reply. :P

I was replying to Ian's post. Sorry. Should have quoted him.

[sleevelesssky]

Yeah, but the entire point youngyew and I were trying to make is that there is simply nothing inherently wrong in being a jack of all trades and master of none. ;) Why do you assume that it would be bad?

Anyway the full phrase should be "Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one" - maybe that would help explain things better?

I did mention that jack of all trades (master of none) is not wrong/bad. I would not bother to include that full phrase if I thought that did not make sense. I have nothing against jack of all trades, for I am one myself. Please do not make unnecessary presumptions. XD

[Glassylicious]

But that's not what you appear to be saying here. You may have included the full version of the quote at the end, but it kinda clashes against your defence of Dylan Moran's quote.

You yourself said you believe Dylan Moran fears [or to be more specific, wishes to avoid] the "risk" of "fulfilling the prophecy of jack of all trades". What does this connote? This brings a negative connotation of the phrase. Yes, you may have said there's nothing wrong with being a jack of all trades, but Dylan Moran clearly thinks there is.

You then end your post by wording the phrase in a positive light -- its full version. This is inconsistent with your defence of Dylan.



OK, back to the quote. What I believe Dylan Moran is trying to convey is that multi-talented people (in this case, people with many interests - narrowly speaking) have to constantly remind themselves whether their interests are genuine enough for them to pursue further, or else they would risk fulfilling the prophecy of jack of all trades, master of none'. Which has nothing to do with the interest/profession argument.

(Anyway the full phrase should be "Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one" - maybe that would help explain things better?) I apologize for digressing so far.

[sleevelesssky]

But that's not what you appear to be saying here. You may have included the full version of the quote at the end, but it kinda clashes against your defence of Dylan Moran's quote.

You yourself said you believe Dylan Moran fears [or to be more specific, wishes to avoid] the "risk" of "fulfilling the prophecy of jack of all trades". What does this connote? This brings a negative connotation of the phrase. Yes, you may have said there's nothing wrong with being a jack of all trades, but Dylan Moran clearly thinks there is.

You then end your post by wording the phrase in a positive light -- its full version. This is inconsistent with your defence of Dylan.

Apologies. I did realize that the last line was inconsistent with my argument - but then again you can't blame me for trying to be a bit more... agreeable. And I have been rather obsessed with dialetic recently.

[youngyew]

At the end of the day it hinges on what one sees as a "better" life. Passion is good. To be able to develop a passion into a career is even better, if not enviable. However, to attach an inherent superiority on passion-turned-career over pragmatism-driven-career with no regards for differences in one's outlook (jest notwithstanding), and to discount disagreement by brushing it away with a nonchalant "Ahah here comes the amusing over-interpretation", is not what I would see as a fair-spirited discussion.

[sleevelesssky]

At the end of the day it hinges on what one sees as a "better" life. Passion is good. To be able to develop a passion into a career is even better, if not enviable. However, to attach an inherent superiority on passion-turned-career over pragmatism-driven-career with no regards for differences in one's outlook (jest notwithstanding), and to discount disagreement by brushing it away with a nonchalant "Ahah here comes the amusing over-interpretation", is not what I would see as a fair-spirited discussion.

Well said. Indeed, success/"better" is relative and should not be judged in absolute terms.

Yet I would beg to differ regarding the assumption that I possess "inherent superiority" regarding "passion-turned career over pragmatism-driven-career".

I have tried my best to make my words to be clearly of my personal ideology (inserting phrases such as "for me" and "just my principles") thus not be taken as a false sense of superiority from my perspective. Maybe I should be clearer by saying "I feel that I would be..." and so on. What I mean by personal ideology should differ from my perceptions of things and people. My personal ideology is reserved for none other than myself, and I do not intend to enforce my values on others. I equally respect people who choose "pragmatism-driven career" despite the fact that I would think myself as average if I follow suit. I equally respect people who choose "passion-turned career" but I do not think them (including me) as "better"/"more superior" than those who do not. Most of my family elders and some of my friends have chosen "pragmatism-driven career". I appreciate and admire them as much as I honor my own choice of a "passion-turned career".

Therefore I am left bewildered upon reading your post. Having a different set of principles does not mean that I must judge others so. It just means that I have a different set of principles due to the fact that I want to live the life I think would be best for me. Perceptions on the other hand, is carefully kept apart from my personal values so that I will not appear biased/prejudiced in my words especially when debating about a particular issue is concerned.

All in all, what I have presented here is my personal ideology, NOT my perceptions. The separation of personal ideology and perceptions might sound ridiculous but note that I will be as neutral as possible if I do get my personal perceptions involved, whereas I can afford to be as biased as I am when I mention my personal ideology.

Not only did you over-interpret the quote in the first place, your replying remarks are wholly unjustified. I can't stress this more: I agree with you for most of the part. Nevertheless, I will not accept anyone presuming that I do not take disagreements seriously, discarding opposing comments without much thought. I might not argue the right way as I am still learning how to present my ideas in a more acceptable manner, however I strive to argue for the sake of seeking mutual understanding whenever possible, not to win, not to feel superior over anything.

Hope you understand.

[youngyew]

"You amuse me" is never a good way to start a reply.

[sleevelesssky]

"You amuse me" is never a good way to start a reply.


I realize that I sounded condescending, thus offending you. But I did feel genuinely amused upon reading your post. I should have rephrased it much more tactfully. Apologies.

[day_dreamer]

Study STPM, study it hard...

Forget any extracurricular activities... they are all useless... waste of time only.

After that apply for Singapore universities.

[henry_yew]

Forget any extracurricular activities... they are all useless... waste of time only.


Why do you say so?

[day_dreamer]

Why do you say so?

Can always be nice to teacher in charge to false some records to get the CCA points :)

[LWSiang]

lol............daydreamer if i m taking Art stream in STPM
almost everything is in BM, cant tahan that!!!

[henry_yew]

Can always be nice to teacher in charge to false some records to get the CCA points :)

Well, let's all do things the honest way. At least be accountable and answerable to yourself if not other people. (Well, if it benefits your conscience to falsify your records to get CCA points, then I can't help you. :P)

The thing is that having good records in extracurricular activities can help you secure sponsorships and scholarships. While you may be able to fabricate records for your extracurricular activities and get away with it, that will not be so when you are in university.

To get credit for extracurricular activities in university, you will need to participate in activities out of your own initiative. Nobody will help you fabricate records of participation in any events or competitions. And what's the use of extracurricular activities in university, you may ask? Well, employers are not looking for graduates with a CGPA of 3.8 or 3.9 anymore. They want to see how you can perform out of your academic capacities, which mean that they want to see you lead, debate, assist, organise, etc. etc. Therefore, having extracurricular activities during your university life is just as important to secure jobs or to strengthen your curriculum vitae.

Research activities and papers that you published even during your undergraduate years are what employeers and graduate schools are looking for today. Gone are the days when employers and graduate schools are looking at CGPA figures alone. Soon, gone will be the days when employers look at CGPA figures and extracurricular activities - they will want people with research experience.

The requirements demanded from a graduate only get tougher. If you want to compete, you will need to work hard... and smart.

Extracurricular activities will shape your PR skills - and you will soon realise how useful PR skills are, i.e. getting to know your lecturers well, getting to know some senior managers of different companies well, etc.

So start doing your extracurricular activities now. Build your rapport. You'll need references in the future for a lot of things, so getting to know more people really help. But in order to get to know people, it's all back to extracurricular activities! Academic work alone will just get you your marks and grades, nothing more.

[afifah]

hey..i'm new here..
i just want to seek for opinions..
actually i'm confused whether i should take law or medic..
my father forces me to take medic..but i think i'm more interested in law..
i'm not really good in speaking english but i love history..
so what do you think??:(:huh

[BattleBoyz]

hey..i'm new here..
i just want to seek for opinions..
actually i'm confused whether i should take law or medic..
my father forces me to take medic..but i think i'm more interested in law..
i'm not really good in speaking english but i love history..
so what do you think??:(:huh

It is better for you to pursue your dreams rather than studying something which you have no passion in it because you wouldn't have the motivation to study if you don't like it. Your command of language can be improved if you read and speak more. Do try to sit down and talk to your parents properly regarding your dream and convince them to let you pursue it because studying law ain't that bad! :wink

[Boyz_Zoo]

hey..i'm new here..
i just want to seek for opinions..
actually i'm confused whether i should take law or medic..
my father forces me to take medic..but i think i'm more interested in law..
i'm not really good in speaking english but i love history..
so what do you think??:(:huh
First of all, v should choose d field tat v like as v'll doin this for d rest of our life. So, v need 2 choose wisely.

Secondly, v need 2 match it with our compatibility. It's no use of havin jz d interest as v need our talent 2 get a degree n 2 b gud in wat v do.

So, my advice is 2 think wisely, this 2 things b4 u make a choice. Lawyer is required 2 b proficient in English n Malay. History is nt tat much inside d syllabus.

[afifah]

First of all, v should choose d field tat v like as v'll doin this for d rest of our life. So, v need 2 choose wisely.

Secondly, v need 2 match it with our compatibility. It's no use of havin jz d interest as v need our talent 2 get a degree n 2 b gud in wat v do.

So, my advice is 2 think wisely, this 2 things b4 u make a choice. Lawyer is required 2 b proficient in English n Malay. History is nt tat much inside d syllabus.


thanks for your advice..i really appreciate it..:)

[Glassylicious]

History really isn't all that relevant for law, contrary to what 3158912 other people will tell you. Your command of language will be extremely valuable in Law, so make sure to brush up your English if you wish to embark on that course.

[marczeman]

well guys while you're at it, could you take a look at my trial results and gimme some suggestions? My mum and older sister have been giving me hell these past few days, cos I'm suddenly undecided. Before SPM, I was going around calling myself the next Karpal Singh and stuff(implying I've chosen Law), but now I'm nowhere near certain about it.
I'm good at maths, but I don't like the idea of crunching numbers for the rest of my life.
I also like reading, but mostly just for leisure.
I guess I'm really into the country's political happenings, but then again loads of young people are these days, so that doesn't mean I should make a career out of it right?
I have a weird liking for knowing stuff people don't know. Like learning random stuff online. And teaching them to people. I like impressing them that way. I dunno if that's relevant but I thought I'd include it lol.
I like expressing my thoughts and opinions in writing. Not speech, because you know, the written word is premeditated. I get to look up stuff before arguing a point or whatever. That's where I'm at my deadliest lah I suppose. In arguing verbally, I've realized that I usually lose and barely say anything. Even in verbal conversations, I hardly make substantial contributions.
I like listening and finding flaws in another's argument, then promptly point them out. haha, some call me an ass for that.
And finally, I love the prospect of making loads of money. I know this seems shallow, but hey, money's the greatest motivator and I'm not gonna pretend otherwise.
All the career tests I've taken so far point me towards business/management, but I wonder if that's a 'safe' route. How far can one go with that in Malaysia?(that was a serious question, I really don't know)

soo anyway, here are my forecast results :

BM = B+
BI = A+
Math = A+
Sejarah = A
Moral = A+
Add Maths = A+
Physics = A+
Chemistry = A
Bio = A-
EST = A

Well, I never liked Bio...:))

(btw, should I have started a new thread for this? No, right? I hear moderators get really pissed at unnecessary threads haha)

[Glassylicious]

well guys while you're at it, could you take a look at my trial results and gimme some suggestions? My mum and older sister have been giving me hell these past few days, cos I'm suddenly undecided. Before SPM, I was going around calling myself the next Karpal Singh and stuff(implying I've chosen Law), but now I'm nowhere near certain about it.
I'm good at maths, but I don't like the idea of crunching numbers for the rest of my life.
I also like reading, but mostly just for leisure.
I guess I'm really into the country's political happenings, but then again loads of young people are these days, so that doesn't mean I should make a career out of it right?
I have a weird liking for knowing stuff people don't know. Like learning random stuff online. And teaching them to people. I like impressing them that way. I dunno if that's relevant but I thought I'd include it lol.
I like expressing my thoughts and opinions in writing. Not speech, because you know, the written word is premeditated. I get to look up stuff before arguing a point or whatever. That's where I'm at my deadliest lah I suppose. In arguing verbally, I've realized that I usually lose and barely say anything. Even in verbal conversations, I hardly make substantial contributions.
I like listening and finding flaws in another's argument, then promptly point them out. haha, some call me an ass for that.
And finally, I love the prospect of making loads of money. I know this seems shallow, but hey, money's the greatest motivator and I'm not gonna pretend otherwise.
All the career tests I've taken so far point me towards business/management, but I wonder if that's a 'safe' route. How far can one go with that in Malaysia?(that was a serious question, I really don't know)

soo anyway, here are my forecast results :

BM = B+
BI = A+
Math = A+
Sejarah = A
Moral = A+
Add Maths = A+
Physics = A+
Chemistry = A
Bio = A-
EST = A

Well, I never liked Bio...:))

(btw, should I have started a new thread for this? No, right? I hear moderators get really pissed at unnecessary threads haha)

Here are some of my comments.

1. You don't REALLY need to be great at making impromptu arguments in court to be a good lawyer simply because being in court and representing your client in a court case is only a small part of the job. Most of your time working as a lawyer will be spent in the office doing paperwork, preparing documents, and talking to your clients. When you DO represent your client in court though, you shouldn't have a problem answering any questions asked by the judge as long as you know your client's case well, and have done your research. Being a lawyer is all about having done your research and knowing where each bit of information fits in the "bigger picture".

2. Law has great career prospects, BUT you need to be prepared to slog it out for 3-5 years before you start getting payrises. By your 7th year, money should become a lot less of a concern for you. :))

3. Business/management's career prospects. You'll be well paid as a management consultant -- Khazanah pays 7K a month, and McKinsey will probably pay more than that [I'd expect it nearing the five-figure mark]. BUT. Here's the important bit about business/management in Malaysia. Places for management consultants are competitive -- if you're aiming to work for one of these places, I would STRONGLY recommend going to a reputable university. E.g. Oxford, or an Ivy League uni in the States. Otherwise, you're going to be seen as a "doss applicant" if you have a business degree from, say, Segi College [no offence to those who ARE studying there, guys -_-] because let's face it -- business degrees in local private colleges are perceived to be taken by the weaker students. So if you can't get into a fairly good school for business/management, you'd be better off sticking to law to be honest. At least the law firms in KL seem to be more accommodating to local law graduates.

[marczeman]

Here are some of my comments.

1. You don't REALLY need to be great at making impromptu arguments in court to be a good lawyer simply because being in court and representing your client in a court case is only a small part of the job. Most of your time working as a lawyer will be spent in the office doing paperwork, preparing documents, and talking to your clients. When you DO represent your client in court though, you shouldn't have a problem answering any questions asked by the judge as long as you know your client's case well, and have done your research. Being a lawyer is all about having done your research and knowing where each bit of information fits in the "bigger picture".

2. Law has great career prospects, BUT you need to be prepared to slog it out for 3-5 years before you start getting payrises. By your 7th year, money should become a lot less of a concern for you. :))

3. Business/management's career prospects. You'll be well paid as a management consultant -- Khazanah pays 7K a month, and McKinsey will probably pay more than that [I'd expect it nearing the five-figure mark]. BUT. Here's the important bit about business/management in Malaysia. Places for management consultants are competitive -- if you're aiming to work for one of these places, I would STRONGLY recommend going to a reputable university. E.g. Oxford, or an Ivy League uni in the States. Otherwise, you're going to be seen as a "doss applicant" if you have a business degree from, say, Segi College [no offence to those who ARE studying there, guys -_-] because let's face it -- business degrees in local private colleges are perceived to be taken by the weaker students. So if you can't get into a fairly good school for business/management, you'd be better off sticking to law to be honest. At least the law firms in KL seem to be more accommodating to local law graduates.


Thanks! Hmm maybe I've been reading a little too much John Grisham haha.

Another question then, If I get a Law degree from the UK, would that cut short my..err... international options? I mean, can I practise in the US, should I want to move there some day? How hard would that be, exactly? And how about to practise in Malaysia with a US degree? Or is this whole geographical aspect really irrelevant?:))

[CissNei]

well guys while you're at it, could you take a look at my trial results and gimme some suggestions? My mum and older sister have been giving me hell these past few days, cos I'm suddenly undecided. Before SPM, I was going around calling myself the next Karpal Singh and stuff(implying I've chosen Law), but now I'm nowhere near certain about it.
I'm good at maths, but I don't like the idea of crunching numbers for the rest of my life.
I also like reading, but mostly just for leisure.
I guess I'm really into the country's political happenings, but then again loads of young people are these days, so that doesn't mean I should make a career out of it right?
I have a weird liking for knowing stuff people don't know. Like learning random stuff online. And teaching them to people. I like impressing them that way. I dunno if that's relevant but I thought I'd include it lol.
I like expressing my thoughts and opinions in writing. Not speech, because you know, the written word is premeditated. I get to look up stuff before arguing a point or whatever. That's where I'm at my deadliest lah I suppose. In arguing verbally, I've realized that I usually lose and barely say anything. Even in verbal conversations, I hardly make substantial contributions.
I like listening and finding flaws in another's argument, then promptly point them out. haha, some call me an ass for that.
And finally, I love the prospect of making loads of money. I know this seems shallow, but hey, money's the greatest motivator and I'm not gonna pretend otherwise.
All the career tests I've taken so far point me towards business/management, but I wonder if that's a 'safe' route. How far can one go with that in Malaysia?(that was a serious question, I really don't know)

soo anyway, here are my forecast results :

BM = B+
BI = A+
Math = A+
Sejarah = A
Moral = A+
Add Maths = A+
Physics = A+
Chemistry = A
Bio = A-
EST = A

Well, I never liked Bio...:))

(btw, should I have started a new thread for this? No, right? I hear moderators get really pissed at unnecessary threads haha)


Hey mate look into engineering, might be a great option. Math is important though, but you do not have to learn really hardcore math. As for written stuff, engineers do tons of those. Then again, I suppose you'll need to give verbal opinions where necessary.

As for the random stuff online, I do that a lot XD You might be able to impress a girl by telling her how the microwave oven works or why you are safe in the car when struck by lightning (I learnt this in first year physics lol, but it wasn't the greatest pick up line).

Money? I'm not sure about Msia, but in Aus, you can get AUD80k/year starting salary. Honest. More if you're a mining engineer!

[Glassylicious]

Thanks! Hmm maybe I've been reading a little too much John Grisham haha.

Another question then, If I get a Law degree from the UK, would that cut short my..err... international options? I mean, can I practice in the US, should I want to move there some day? How hard would that be, exactly? And how about to practice in Malaysia with a US degree? Or is this whole geographical aspect really irrelevant?:))

You need to do a Law postgrad degree in the States if you have a UK degree and want to practise in the US. You can't practise in Malaysia with a US degree, as far as I know. It needs to be a UK degree for Malaysia.

There's a huge divide between the US-UK system, so be warned. XD

[ayjiahui]

You need to do a Law postgrad degree in the States if you have a UK degree and want to practise in the US. You can't practise in Malaysia with a US degree, as far as I know. It needs to be a UK degree for Malaysia.

There's a huge divide between the US-UK system, so be warned. XD

actually you can but the number of US postgrad schools that Malaysia recognizes is limited. something like, eight or nine of them? not all the ivies are recognized either (surprise!).

[Glassylicious]

actually you can but the number of US postgrad schools that Malaysia recognizes is limited. something like, eight or nine of them? not all the ivies are recognized either (surprise!).

Oooh, didn't know that. Thanks for that.

Malaysia recognizes 30 UK law schools btw.

[marczeman]

ooh okay that's good to know. :)
btw, am i right in supposing that the better degree to hold if i wanted to practise in a Commonwealth country(i.e. Aus/NZ) would be a UK degree? and how different is an Aussie degree from a UK degree anyway? i know several JPA scholars who were sent to Aus for Law.

One more thing if it's not too much trouble lol, if unable to secure a scholarship i do an external program at a local college(University Of London external at Brickfields Asia College), then would that still qualify me for the same things as would a degree program completed at UOL itself?

Forgive my noob-ness on these matters, i just never bothered finding out any of these things before.. :))

[Glassylicious]

ooh okay that's good to know. :)
btw, am i right in supposing that the better degree to hold if i wanted to practise in a Commonwealth country(i.e. Aus/NZ) would be a UK degree? and how different is an Aussie degree from a UK degree anyway? i know several JPA scholars who were sent to Aus for Law.

One more thing if it's not too much trouble lol, if unable to secure a scholarship i do an external program at a local college(University Of London external at Brickfields Asia College), then would that still qualify me for the same things as would a degree program completed at UOL itself?

Forgive my noob-ness on these matters, i just never bothered finding out any of these things before.. :))

Yes, it's better to have a UK degree for Commonwealth countries, simply because the UK's legal system is the common law system which most of the other Commonwealth countries follow. I'm not sure how different an Aus degree will be content-wise, but take note of the fact that many of the good Australian universities are phasing out their undergrad law degree program -- law is now a postgrad degree in quite a few universities there.

As for your UoL question: Not really sure what you mean by "same things" -- you need to stipulate your definition.

[marczeman]

Yes, it's better to have a UK degree for Commonwealth countries, simply because the UK's legal system is the common law system which most of the other Commonwealth countries follow. I'm not sure how different an Aus degree will be content-wise, but take note of the fact that many of the good Australian universities are phasing out their undergrad law degree program -- law is now a postgrad degree in quite a few universities there.

As for your UoL question: Not really sure what you mean by "same things" -- you need to stipulate your definition.


Oh ok. thanks. well lol in other words, i guess what I meant was, would anyone(e.g. potential employers) care to know [I]where[I] I did my degree program, or would the fact that the degree came from UoL suffice. I mean, technically, I can say I have a degree in Law from the UoL right? Will I face further questions? At the end of the day, does it matter if I did it externally? Does taking the course in London itself add weight to the degree?

[Glassylicious]

Oh ok. thanks. well lol in other words, i guess what I meant was, would anyone(e.g. potential employers) care to know [I]where[I] I did my degree program, or would the fact that the degree came from UoL suffice. I mean, technically, I can say I have a degree in Law from the UoL right? Will I face further questions? At the end of the day, does it matter if I did it externally? Does taking the course in London itself add weight to the degree?

You'll need to indicate that it's an external degree in your CV, etc. Also, there's no such university called "University of London" per se, so if you do go to London, you'll do your degree in one of the colleges under the University of London -- King's College London [KCL], University College London [UCL], etc.

It probably won't hugely disadvantage you if you do an external degree [many people who did the external degree in ATC Kemayan have no problem finding jobs in KL law firms], but I just wanted to say that it'll be very obvious whether you did it externally or in London, because those who went to London will say they did their degree in KCL, UCL, etc.

And yeah, I'd recommend taking the course in London, where you'd benefit from lecturers/tutors who are probably better than the ones here in Malaysia.

[marczeman]

You'll need to indicate that it's an external degree in your CV, etc. Also, there's no such university called "University of London" per se, so if you do go to London, you'll do your degree in one of the colleges under the University of London -- King's College London [KCL], University College London [UCL], etc.

It probably won't hugely disadvantage you if you do an external degree [many people who did the external degree in ATC Kemayan have no problem finding jobs in KL law firms], but I just wanted to say that it'll be very obvious whether you did it externally or in London, because those who went to London will say they did their degree in KCL, UCL, etc.

And yeah, I'd recommend taking the course in London, where you'd benefit from lecturers/tutors who are probably better than the ones here in Malaysia.


ooops! sorry lol i didn't know that about UoL, I just was just quoting what I saw in some brochure from one of the local colleges.:amuse

anyway thanks for the help Glassylicious! really appreciate it!:))