Habits of Asking Questions in Malaysian Classes

[digimushu]

Joe from Carnegie Mellon University wrote:"I have a suggestion..... that day the ambassador come to visit...and someone bring up an issue about research opportunity back at home that many lecturers in malaysia universities need students to help out in their research..... since many malaysian students from US going back over the winter or summerbreak... they can work under the professors to gain experience and contribute.... a malaysian who studying master here and taught in UM forshort time said that a network between malaysia universities and malaysian students abroad is needed...."

I suggested back to him that we in Recom should do something with it and be the linkage... Lets brainstorm

Oh and if they want someone to teach, no offense meant to anyone but none of the racial preference thingy. If i teach a class, i'll do my best to help my students out and teach the class my way. I have no expectations of how many students in my class getting Cs or As. For all I care, they can all get As or all get Cs. Grades will NOT be curved. I would also like to see my students asking questions in class, or challenge my teaching if they feel something is wrong, as I often do that here to my profs. be it as a student or professor, we are all still learning and somehow i feel the best way of learning is to challenge something and think deeply into the topic.

Malaysian tertiary education is too exam oriented, which is unsuitable for engineering. It should be 75% homework and daily quizzes and 25% final exam, IMHO. Most Malaysian students are impeccable at theory but lack the 'feel' for application. Giving them time to think about some problems should give them an insight into the applications and some very important concepts.

When I was at UTM to visit my friend there, I managed to sit in one of his classes before we went for lunch just to see how things are. I noticed that the learning is not interactive. The information flow is only one way, from the lecturer to the student. This is bad, because the students mind will wander away. This type of teaching really dulls the mind as you are just memorising somebody's result without any consideration of the theory behind it. If we want more R&D, we need students who can challenge traditional theories and give reasonable justifications why the theory is incomplete or flawed.

OK...enough of me digressing, we should go back to the original topic...

[digimushu]

Anyways, while we are still on this topic..

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/National/20040825075958/Article/indexb_html

[chenchow]

agree with digimushu on that aspect, and I think that we need to embark on a really huge fundamental changes in the people's mentality to bridge this gap.

Anyone has any practical opinion? Digimushu, what do you think if students start to raise their hands in lecture back in Malaysia? Would that make any changes? Would the lectures become more lively?

[digimushu]

Practical changes huh?

hrmmmm..i guess we have to start from high school. I remember when i was in the science club in high school, we would organize the 'Science Olympics' for our junior members. It mainly consist of a few events that are meant to drive fundamental concepts into the thick skull of students(jk!). An example of one the challenge is this:

We give you a roll of tape, some newspaper and glue. Make an egg survive a 3 storey fall. Sounds easy, but it takes a lot of thinking. Some solutions include making a 'crumple zone' to reduce the impluse sustained by the egg and parachutes. Even more interesting solutions are parafoil(parachutes with an aerofoil-like behavior).

If we make our high school students ask questions and wonder 'why?' instead of 'how?' most of the time, I believe we should be on the right path. We need to make them ask questions and bring that habit into their profession. The mentality in high school is like this:

1. The teacher is always right
2. If the teacher is wrong, refer to rule #1

We have to cure this mentality and make them challenge everything. Truth to be told, I did not ask questions until i come to the US, where i was in an environment of 'do-or-die' situation.

The problem I feel in our local uni is that the professors are too high up in their pedestal back home. As such, students feel intimidated and are afraid to ask questions. Its hard to get the student's mentality to change if the professor's do not change. Even if the professor's ar wrong and they are just BSing up there, no one dares to call their bluff. Lovely predicament, eh?

All in all, i'm not sure any change can be imposed on the system, unless some professor's stop being conservative and be more open. Plus, the syllabus needs to be revamped. Our Control Systems syllabus is waaaaayYyy behind.

Anyone has any other opinions?

[naturesimple]

All in all, i'm not sure any change can be imposed on the system, unless some professor's stop being conservative and be more open. Plus, the syllabus needs to be revamped. Our Control Systems syllabus is waaaaayYyy behind.


i think majority of lecturers r like that... some mabe lack of the communication skillsor maybe some really do not know the answer!!! that's y they dun like students to as q!! as times goes by, its a norm for a student to keep their mouth shut from start to end n u will be branded as good student.

even when a student have the gut to speak up n ask, if the lecturer do not know how to answer ... the student will be 'boo.....' by all other students for doing somthing strange n unusual. WAT THE???

but that's wat really i perceive in my class , UTM.

R&D?????? suggest n do sumthing to the local lecturers first!

[chenchow]

Does everyone share the same sentiment with the notion on asking questions back in Malaysia?

Just curious to know from ReComers on whether you ask questions back in high schools or whether your friends were asking questions back then? What were the reaction of yourself/friends/teachers?

I used to be asking quite a lot of questions in class, some stupid, some ok, some guess not bad questions... and I guess my classmates have mixed responses.... When I asked something that others have the same questions, they would be happy... Sometimes, I asked questions that were seemingly too easy or too wierd, then some classmates were not that positive, but from my observation, I had never found any teacher that stopped me from asking any question. I have done the same thing to almost all teachers in all subjects in high school, or even primary schools. So, I am hoping to hear from more people on the true situation from various places in the country... Mind sharing?

However, I have to say that especially for some of the teachers that like students to ask questions, they often fail to get many students to ask questions/responds . it is kind of sad, that often, the one that keeps on responding are the same 25-50% of the students in the class... Is this the same situation elsewhere?

Hope to see and hear more sharing.

[cquayhl]

Does everyone share the same sentiment with the notion on asking questions back in Malaysia?

Just curious to know from ReComers on whether you ask questions back in high schools or whether your friends were asking questions back then? What were the reaction of yourself/friends/teachers?


chenchow, are you serious about your experience? Which schools did you go to? You are extremely lucky. I think most people have had the opposite experience. I used to ask a lot of questions in school too. The standard answers were:

'It's not in the syllabus. When you're in Form 6 you'll learn about that.'

'I don't know. Why are you always asking these kinds of questions?'

'I'm trying to teach 50 pupils here, OK? I can't answer questions everybody's questions.'

'Trying to show off or what?'

My friends asked some questions, but mostly within the syllabus, so that was OK. To be fair to my teachers, I was doing a fair amount of extra-curricular reading. This asking questions business got me into quite a bit of trouble at school though. Once I changed schools because I was generally perceived as a discipline problem. It still puzzles me today how this came about.

Finally, I settled down in a school where I left them alone and they left me alone. I kept my head down and didn't ask too many questions. Most of the time, I either ponteng or tidur. The problem was...if you ponteng too often, kena gantung, so I also wakil sekolah in as many things as possible... School magazine was another good excuse to not be in class, although still had to be in school...sorry, that's a bit off topic. But school was hellish for me. Simply hellish. And the worst bits revolved around asking questions.

digimushu, I guess we'll have to go back and be the other kind of lecturer? :-) Most of the things I hear are more/less the same as your experience. I have heard some good stories though from one classmate who's doing research in uni (as an undergrad) and really enjoying it...but only one.

Very occasionally I think about going back to school and being the other kind of teacher. But only very occasionally. Because it does seem like most students do only care about the syllabus and passing exams...

[jiinjoo]

Charis, what you mentioned in one of the cons for not streaming our education. If you have everyone who are equally smart or has more or less the similar amount of head start studying together, then it will be less of a problem. In terms of chenchow's environment, my guess is that most of the students in his class are on par with what he's asking, so the teacher wouldn't mind answering for everyone's sake.

My experience is that everyone knows the fact that we are all not born equal, so some questions in class really hampers the teacher's ability to go with the flow of the entire class. We do have a number of geniouses in class too, and most of them learn to shut up in class, sleep, ponteng. But that doesn't stop their interest in learning because after school, you'll see them in the teacher's office asking questions about things that aren't in th syllabus per say.

Another initiative we had in school are the training groups for olympiad etc. Some aren't even traning for any competition, but just for interest sake. A teacher will take the lead in providing lots of material beyond class, or a student can raise a question and we'll all try to answer it. Whenever we have questions in class, we'll usually postpone it till private sessions or these training group sessions.

One can argue that this has caused some of the students in class to perform badly, because 1. you don't dare ask questions coz the smart ones aren't asking, no one else is asking, maybe it's just a purely dumb question; 2. what's a good question to ask in order to understand a certain topic better? you've rarely heard other ask about it, so you don't really know how to approach / understand except by asking the teacher to repeat what s/he just said (eh cikgu, repeat sekali lagi untuk seluruh class boleh tak? saya tak faham...) 3. The good students end up staying back to learn together while the not so good students are left to the tuition teachers.

I personaly only barely have enough time to coach some of my band-mates, partially out of necessicity (else their parents will come chasing after me saying that their kid is not performing in school and hence have to stop coming for band practice). Throughout my sessions with them, I kept reiterating the theme - why don't you ask this question in class? You mean the teacher didn't explain this in class? And the typical response I get is: What question to ask? If you're not trained to think analytically, it's hard to see exactly what you don't understand on the spot.

About our teacher's attitude - here's my little story - I first got a 88 in math in Form 2, the first time not in the 90s range. Being fairly strong at maths, I was angry and I went to my math teacher, pointed at my answer and ask her for an explanation of why it was wrong. She took out her model answer and I pointed out that the answer is correct. But she said I didn't follow the steps. If you guys remember, to solve a problem there're 4 steps: 1. Understanding the problem, 2. Plan out the course of action that will lead to solving the problem, 3. Solve the problem, 4. Check to see if your answer solved the problem. So apparently being someone who always falls asleep during math class, and never ever opened the math text book, I was penalized for not stating all the steps of solving the problem, and eventhough I had my calculations that led me to the answer (to prove that I actually calculated it myself), I didn't score points for that question. So nice. Therefore, all subsequent exams by this teacher, I end up writing an essay around my calculations and answer so as to please her. Till this day (Exactly 10 years later, that was 1994 August), I can still remember her pushing her finger on my head, nagging: "Ikut Buku, Ikut Buku!" Do you see what's wrong with this picture? :wink:

(FYI, she graduated from one of the english universities, sent by the government in the 80s - does this mean anything to you?)

[naturesimple]

1 of my friend complain to me that a lecturer keep avoiding him even in the class for the reason of asking questions which he dun understand frequently.

now, he is not asking anymore

[chenchow]

cquayhl, I am serious about my experience. My high school was Jit Sin High School. Thanks cquayhl, jiin joo, naturesimple to share. Hope more people would share, so that we have a bigger cross section of situations back in Malaysia.

I guess I am being naive, for not knowing that the situation is not the same everywhere. Because in my high school, the situation that happens in Jiin Joo's school, happens in my school too. After class, we used to do study groups together. As I traveled far from school, I rented a room nearby the school. Every evening and night (Mon to Thurs) without fail, our living room become like a study center, where friends, basically anyone in our batch in my school, could just pop by and study together. Learning together and helping one another. In the afternoon, those of us who learn better, would voluntarily find some students who need help, and we guide one another. I remember, being the one knowing a lot about Moral grading scheme, and I can't remember how many times I share what I know with my fellow schoolmates.

In fact, a lot of teachers encourage us to learn beyond curricular reading, although, I have to say that not many students do so... yeah, perhaps cquayhl, digimushu, you have the ability to go back and do so... Sometimes, I am asking myself... Should I go back and be a teacher/lecturer?

Streaming could be something possible to be done. My school does stream. First, it has strict entry requirement (right now, being 6As and 1B in UPSR as the minimum qualification, and not everyone with 6As in UPSR get to go in) and within the school, there is streaming among the 15 classes or so.

Yeah, sometimes, some questions would hamper the teachers' ability to continue with the flow of the classes.

Just a question, do you guys think that the tight syllabus is one of the reasons classes become mundane and teachers disallow students to ask questions? Or because of the limiting ability of the teachers? Or because some students were showing off? Or other reasons?...

[naturesimple]

i still think that it is all about teachers n lecturers.

few problems with local teachers or lecturers....
1) lack of communication skills . some 'MASTERS'degree holders lec can only speak a proper english sentence sumtimes...which the sentence is with malay slang n also inserted with malay words. they said we cant too mengagung-agungkan bhs luar....

2) lack of passion to teach. as if they r forced to teach. 1 of my lec in U will pack everything 5 minutes before the class end n she always be the first 1 to run out from the class the moment come. she is afraid that students will surround her to ask questions.

3) too booked-minded. we as students never expect them to teach thing out of book because that nearly impposible. sumtimes they will teach back the thing we already know since f4 due to the syllabus.

4) not creative n innovative(imply to majotiry of malaysian too?) class boring!!!!

am i talking about R&D????

[digimushu]

Yea, we are getting wayyyyy off course here...

can we move this discussion about the education system somewhere and keep this thread for R&D?

[cquayhl]

Yes, let's move the education system discussion to a different thread. Anchors, is there a way to do this easily? Any clean way to cut and paste the last batch of posts into a different thread?

[chenchow]

I have moved the 2 threads apart. Couldn't think of a good topic for this thread, so any suggestion about it.

Thanks for pointing out that we went completely out of topic.

Found an article in The Star, about the dedication to a teacher that groomed individuals with keen intellectual curiosity, athletic prowess, an interest in the arts, but above all, individuals who have the courage to speak their minds and live with integrity, courtesy, and character.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/8/29/education/8709856&sec=education

Hopefully we would have more such educators.

[Randomphantom]

I remember always quizzing my chemistry teacher only to be met by "its not in the syllabus". After that, I realized that some of these questions have answers that complicate the situation (special cases in chemistry-tons of 'em)and are even more confusing.

cquayhl wrote: Because it does seem like most students do only care about the syllabus and passing exams...

We should also look from the perspective of teachers and lecturers. I have an aunt, who is an example of a "motivated" teacher, always aspiring to instill a sense of interest in the sciences. She goes to great pains coming up with gimmicks like fun experiments and stuff like that. Yet she constantly has to battle the urge to just teach them the bare minimum to pass exams.

Her students don't pay attention in class, are generally lackasaidal, and come exam time, some of them will even appear out of the blue(and you would think which class are they from) and just asks for the bare minimum of study. The only question that they will raise in class, is that in the exams or not? Should we memorise it? (everyone asks this too. But in this case this is the ONLY question they ask) Why have an interest in the subject and spend your time doing indepth studies and asking questions when cramming, following exam tips and attending tuition nets you an A?

From her experience I infer: students (the average M'sian student) study for exams. Memorise, regurgitate. Follow the exam answer scheme, as they are told to. No need for "why". Do everything by the book. No wonder why teachers are pressurised to do so too. If they don't do so, they lose out to those tuition teachers. They also have a syllabus to follow by the dot, so there isn't much room for "creativity".

When they implemented KBKK questions, most of her students didn't have a clue what to do with these, some just leave these as blanks. She has a hard time trying to "teach" her students how to approach these questions, and she is scared that another change in the examination will subsequently cause more of the students to lose interest in the subjects. How about the gov't quota? So the question to ask is: Are Malaysian students prepared for changes in teaching styles?

[chenchow]

I can understand what Randomphantom is describing. it is of utter need that we should transform the mindset of Malaysian students, from mere being spoon-fed and study for examination, to study for learning.

In fact, I would say that it is the precise situation for majority of Asian students. The same thing is happening in Singapore. Whether such stuff will be tested in examination? That's the main question there for majority of students.

So, with these majority of students having such mindset, it would be difficult to get everything done when those inquisitive students are in the minority.

Any practical approaches that we could change this situation? What do you guys think about KBKK? Has it managed to change anything in our education system?

[digimushu]

hahahaha

has anyone ever read the textbook in form 4 and form 5? I know I never did. pretty much i just pick a reference book and base everything off from that. And boy did that get me into trouble when I came to the US, coz i had to learn to read the textbook(damn...).

For about 1.5 years of my life I was a private tutor (sigh, the pay was good...) and I realised that the syllabus was being killed off slowly. JeeeZ, all the kewl stuff we had in the chemistry class was being phased out to expand the topics, is that the best approach? or we do want them to know more?

I remember when I went back last summer I went out with one of my cousins. This kid, was pretty ok in studies but he had no interest in his form 4 physics(how come i'm not surprised? *rolls eyes*). So, I brought him to bowl and play pool. Showed him the curve ball in the bowling ring and various other stuff on the pool table and since then, his mom told me he had a renewed interest in physics. I guess its because i linked whatever that was boring with whatever that was interesting to him. Btw, i also explained to him why a football sometimes curves when u kick it and give it a fast spin.

The main problem is keeping the interest of the students in the class and making them remember it effortlessly. To me this seems like the work of the textbook writers and the teachers. SO, to be a teacher, you need to think like a student. simple as that.

[luke]

I've never experienced having my questions answered with harsh patronizing replies like in the examples cquayhl has given .. but if those kind of replies really happen, it is really regrettable .. something is wrong and should be fixed ...

one thing I notice about the lecturers here in the United States is their reaction to questions ... most of the time whenever someone asks a question, lecturers will reply with "that's a brilliant question", "I'm glad you ask that" etc no matter what the answer will be ... and even if they cannot answer the questions, they will almost always give a promise like "I'll try to look that up so keep checking the course website" ... "I'll get back to you later" etc etc ... or perhaps the least they would say is "I'm sorry I don't know but perhaps you could bla bla .." ... if only if our lecturers/techers would do the same ...

[el_empty]

with concern to the education system in malaysia, i believe a first step would be to raise the salary base for teachers, less for the executives (your pengarahs at the air-con offices in kl) and your other random datuk whatevers. the teachers are the ones who slug it off and typically overworked; on top of in-class instructions, they are required to keep a 'buku rekod' to log their daily plans and credit is given to *beautiful pages* and flowery languages. in addition, schools fight to host random events, to which these poor teachers have to organize and participate in. lastly they go for these additional kursus - which is a good intention, but highly wasteful and disorganized. why not train them properly at the maktab perguruan in the first place?

people like teachers should be one of the highest paid positions in the civil service. i believe this is the case in germany and other industrial countries, where they understand the value of the educator as investment for the future. as a comparison, my history teacher in singapore was being paid about sgd3000/mo (though she wishes for more) while my mom, who was a gurubesar for quite some time was paid about half that number in ringgit.

[budakkerek]

hear ye...hear ye..

i totally agree w _earth. first of all, lemme tell you how it is at a maktab perguruan.

Most of the maktabs, are not as cun as other universities. Even UiTM looks better than a teacher training college (TTC). the facilities are like, not up to date, the old buildings, they look neglected (fr own observation n stories fr teacher trainees fr other TTCs)

The place where i'm studying now, is like, among the best in msia...considered one of the few nice ones in Msia, coz we receive foreigners (for the Msian technical Co-op Prog - MTCP) and ppl fr outside (teachers, individuals etc) who are here, taking short courses. I guess that's one reason why my college is so besh - the foreigner factor. Facilities, we got like apartments and the facilities are quite up to date. Hey, we even hv Streamyx. Go figure, how important creating an impression is to our gov.

Anyway, apart fr that, yeah..they really should raise the salary of teachers. It was kinda shocking, to hear it fr my teacher in skool when i told them i'd be going to a TTC, was "dont be a teacher laa..go do sthing else. You wont get rich w teaching. unless you teach tuition. " hearing it coming fr a teacher kinda made me think twice bout joining the course.

When i went for practicum, some of the teachers told me same thing too. They advised me to finish up my contract (i got 4 years of contract) and then go work w some swasta companies as an english consultant or sthing that pays more. Or get married to a rich guy haha

Teachers, according to them, hv to do a LOT of paperwork, had to go for courses, meetings and stuff. And they get very little payment, stimes not enough to cover the bills. When things go wrong, blame the teachers, not the parents, not the school. how can a teacher be motivated when the reward is not lucrative enough? no wonder students dont wanna be teachers anymore.

Honestly, when my mum got me the form, i was a bit reluctant to apply for this course i'm taking. Like...me, a teacher? i love teaching but the thought of sloggin day n night and get paid very little dont seem to attractive to me.

Well..i agree w _earth. the gov should do sthing. Hishamuddin is giving us future teachers some light of hope. Just pray he'll do more for the teachers. After all, happy teachers mean better results. So, do we want that? :wink: [/i]

[chenchow]

I agree that the salary base for teachers should be improved, and I believe that in the past few years, the salary for teachers with bachelor's degree start at around Rm1700+ (including allowances) and it would go until RM3000+ or RM4000+. Anyone has clearer picture in this?

I think that the kursus that teachers should be attending should be done within like say during one or two weeks during the holiday, or something like that. It should strike a balance, while not affecting students' classes, as well as not affecting teachers' holiday.

digimushu, I have been reading my textbooks all the time. I prefer textbook well over reference book, be it in UPSR, PMR and SPM. Even now, I prefer reading textbook, than notes from lecturers. I like the authors build up the topics. Although it is lengthy, it often gives me better background understanding.

Just a question: do you think that cutting the syllabus would make students learn more? This is something that Singapore is going to do, so I guess it is pretty relevant on this issue.

digimushu, it is very nice that you have inspired your cousin. I am sure he would explain what you have explained to him to his friends and that may have some ripple effects. Kudos~!

[phantom]

digimushu wrote:

remember when I went back last summer I went out with one of my cousins. This kid, was pretty ok in studies but he had no interest in his form 4 physics(how come i'm not surprised? *rolls eyes*). So, I brought him to bowl and play pool.


well,plenty of structured questions do make physics lively.it did for me.

this is great dictum to all the will be teachers out there:

to teach is to touch a life for a lifetime.

i was a physics and add math tutor back then in high school,didn't get a single cent,taught my friends for 3 hours till 10-11 at night.

i found teaching as a nobel job.it was darn fun when you changed one hopeless dude to be something else.salary apart.the chores apart.at the end of day,ur students matter the most.


yeas,i did realize that malaysian students dont ask questions.perhaps too shy,perhaps dont want to be the centre of attention.

u know ppl lah,if someone rapat skit with teacher,sure being labeled teacher's pet.

so to save theirselves,most dont ask questions.

i guess malaysian attitude towards ppl being active in classrooms are still negative .

[budakkerek]

haha..very true..you baik sket w the teacher..they'll say, you wanna get good grades etc.

but to me, so what..it's my grade. so let me be. i nvr think twice bout asking in class..esp when it involves stuff that i dont get. So what if you see me as stupid? at least i'm learning. And ya, i'm acknowledging the fact that i dont know, rather than pretending that i do llike what some ppl choose to do *suffer in silence haha*

[luke]

haha..very true..you baik sket w the teacher..they'll say, you wanna get good grades etc.

but to me, so what..it's my grade. so let me be. i nvr think twice bout asking in class..esp when it involves stuff that i dont get. So what if you see me as stupid? at least i'm learning. And ya, i'm acknowledging the fact that i dont know, rather than pretending that i do llike what some ppl choose to do *suffer in silence haha*
I don't know if I was just lucky or not but in my middle school, that never happened to me ... I asked quite a lot of out-of-nowhere questions which were out of the scope of the textbook but I still got along well with other students ... and there was another guy in my class and he also loved to asked questions .. but unlike me, he sometimes got boo from other students etc etc ... I was really kesian at him ... perhaps one of the reasons is because he didn't really get along well with other students but I'm not in the position to judge him anyway ... but what i'm trying to say if you establish yourself among the students (ie. get along with them well), you can feel safe ... you can ask lots of questions in class, gets straight A's, be a class joker, be a class monitor etc etc and still have a pleasant social life in the school and people won't say you are trying to gain attention bla bla bla etc ... of course there might be some people becoming jealous etc but as long as you have other students as your *friends* those jealous people won't be a threat to you ... just my little thought though (2.33 cents) ...

[budakkerek]

hehe...lucky you...no wonder my aunt likes this guy *hint hint* :P

anyway, i guess ppl know me for my eccentricness *is there such a word?* so they dont mind as much. Back in skool, used to feel a bit inferior..but later, grew out of it. I promised myself, that in order to succeed, one must NVR be afraid to be different.

To me, no matter how smart you are, there's bound to be at least one small thing that you dont get. So ask..and you shall receive.

yeah..like luke said, if you hv your group of friends, then you'll feel safer. I'm juz glad my close friends *the Ya-yas - love you guys!* accept me as me, the whole crazie, outta this world crazy me...They dont mind as much when i behave stupidly *well..it's juz me :P * ask questions that made me look stupid to others...doing my stuff *which some ppl think is just too weird*

I mean, being me, i dont care much bout what ppl think. I wanna learn. And THAT's the attitude you gotta hv if you wanna be better. :wink:

[phantom]

budakkerek wrote:

anyway, i guess ppl know me for my eccentricness *is there such a word?* so they dont mind as much. Back in skool, used to feel a bit inferior..but later, grew out of it. I promised myself, that in order to succeed, one must NVR be afraid to be different.



so is that one of the reason for ur nick in recom?

well,sometimes u have to take "da pergi mampus" attitude.like my physics teacher once said, " you can't shut up ppl so u shouldn't care about what others said ".

now that i have brought up this issue,have you ever wonder that e'time some ppl open their mouth,all they talk is about other ppl,other ppl's life and blah blah.in BM,it should be mengumpat.but in english,it is less intense and being called,gossip.

seriously,i am bored with these ppl.never never never grow at all.
it so easy to said, " look at that dude,he never say hello to me..so sombong" and then you ask that person,"so have u ever said hello to him then?". and that person went, " owh never".

weird.weird.u wished others will say hello to you but u dont hope urself to say hello to others.if ppl dont say hello to u,u called them sombong.but when it is u,it is fine.

the same goes with things in school.ppl always judged u.he's the smartest dude.he is the handsomest dude.he is the most capable dude to be the leader.he is another crap.he is this and that.

and then u realized,u have been wasting ur youth time just to be the one that fit to the ingroup.

[chenchow]

I guess we need to pursue sincere friendship with others, and try to fit with people... For instance, during high school, I am very close to students from any class, whereas this is not the case of most students in my class. I guess, one of the elements would be being friendly to others and relate to others...

Encourage others, and try to help others... Play with everyone, and don't discriminate etc....and that would provide half the battle won... Guess I have deviate too much...Get back to point..

On the culture of asking questions, and being termed as haughty, it really depends on how the student behaves sometimes. There is an ABC student here in Cornell, not sure what major, but every time in lecture, he would ask at least 5-10 questions in a 75-minute lecture, often he would disagree with the lecturer, and then whenever any student asked any question to the professor, he would immediately answered that question even before the students finish asking the professor. Needless to say, most, if not all, students in the class hate him... He behaved the same in all class.

Another student. He is also very inquisitive and smart. An American student, and he did the same thing in class. Pointing out errors in the workings of the Professors, asking lots of clarifications etc. Pretty much doing what the earlier student did. However, this student asked it in a very polite manner, and try to understand. Although most of us don't understand most of the questions he asked, we fully support him. We did ask him for clarifications on many subject matters in class. He never jotted down any note in any lecture, yet he is always ranked first/second, yet he has lots of friends. Hence, attitude does affect how others perceive one person too.

[budakkerek]

phantom, yep..i've been using this same nick since i was in Form 1, since i learned that on your way to success, ppl will want to pull you down. So stimes, you gotta hv that "go to hell w people" kinda attitude.

Dont worry, i got friends *smile* coz i believe in, no matter what, you gotta be friends w as many ppl as possible, coz you nvr know how and when you might need their help. Plus, being good to ppl mean they'll be good to you, no? :D

i guess, we should encourage our students to ask more. One lecturer asked us yesterday *i was still in a daze, wasnt pretty much in the mood for class - too long a holiday i had*

"have you ever been taught of HOW to ask questions?"

and yep..that certainly caught my attention.

We were never taught of how to ask questions the effective way. Plus, being in a country where Eastern values are still treasured, asking ppl in authority *in this case, the teachers* is still considered as sthing that's rude..like we're not supposed to question them kinda thing.

Which i think, is very very wrong. Coz stimes, the authority might not be right, and it's not wrong for us to correct sthing that we see as wrong, right?

[jiinjoo]

About chenchow's two friends: I think it goes beyond the attitude. It also depends on the questions he or she asks. If the question is too difficult, it will sound like you're trying to show off that you understand. If the question is too simple, then the rest will be bored and rather you ask the questions during office hours. If you're the "voice of the class", i.e. you always ask the obvious questions that everyone missed and everyone wanted to ask ut too lazy to do so, then you'll be liked by most people. Now That is also a way to seek acceptance amonst your peers :wink:

[Randomphantom]

On the subject of asking questions in class, I really hate the participation points system. It just totally defeats the purpose sometimes. You can really see those stupid questions popping up, some sound like a mere afterthought. Worse are those selfish people like that ABC in chenchow's class (btw, he sounds like he has zero respect for the lecturer, hope he gets a nice reference letter) that like to hog the classes q&a, dragging on the lecture, and generally get on everyone's nerves.

Lucky for me most of my classes right now don't push us that much for participation. At least we don't have to fight to ask questions.

[digimushu]

hrmmm
i can say that all of my life has been revolving around asking questions. most of them dumb ones anyways. I agree with Randomphantom that the participation point system is flawed. Students should not as questions for the sake of asking questions.

However, to me, questioning your professors sometimes is VERY neccessary. Only through a dialogue, a deep understanding of a concept can be thoroughly understood. Sometimes, some people challenge the lecturer or professor not because they have zero respect for the person but because the theory that the professor is teaching is flawed or incomplete but he/she does not realize it. No one should ever answer a question directed to the lecturer in the class i feel. This would definitely undermine the faith of all the other students in the class in the professor and lecturer.

In many of my classes, if the students dont ask questions, the professor will ask the students question. I feel that that is a great system as it is a way for the prof to gauge the understanding of the students.

[chenchow]

On participation points, I agree that it is not useful, beyond getting students to volunteer to ask questions.

I guess a few scenarios could possibly be happening. Too few students are asking questions, hence we need to instill incentives or motivations to get students to ask questions.

If there are too many students want to ask questions, and with limited time available, we need to strike a balance with it.

I think that a good way for a Professor to deal when students ask him/her questions would be to reflect back those questions to the students to answer. In a way, it allows other students to participate, yet hogging the limelight or replying non-stop and not giving opportunities to other students would not be a good solution.

[budakkerek]

in most of my classes, there'll be like almost zero questions..coz most of us are like..bored w the thing heheh...but yep...we still got questions..stimes, if we dont ask during the lecture or class, we'd ask afterwards..during the free time..or friends who know/understand better...

[luke]

perhaps another reason of not asking any question in class is because we do not understand the stuff at all ... some (if not most) of us don't read textbooks prior to going to lectures and end up being busy feeding our brain with stuff taught in lecture .. we are simply too busy absorbing the lesson and don't have the time to conjure up any question ..

of course there are some exceptions (e.g genius) ... :)

btw, some quote:

"There is no such thing as a stupid question ... unless if it is really really stupid."
- I came up with this quote after seeing a guy asking a stupid question in a lecture :P

[budakkerek]

but then, Luke-kun, what is stupidity anyway? Stupidity is subjective, at least to me. I mean, who are we to say that "that's stupid, man"? The level of common sense varies fr a person to another..so what might be stupid to you, might not be stupid to the other person. Well, my 2 cents..not trying to pick up a fight w you, Luke-kun *will spare that for SIG anime+nihongo hehe* :D

[luke]

but then, Luke-kun, what is stupidity anyway? Stupidity is subjective, at least to me. I mean, who are we to say that "that's stupid, man"? The level of common sense varies fr a person to another..so what might be stupid to you, might not be stupid to the other person. Well, my 2 cents..not trying to pick up a fight w you, Luke-kun *will spare that for SIG anime+nihongo hehe* :D
wanna fight?

j/k :lol:

yup yup i agree it's subjective .. but as long as there is subjectivity to individuals, there will be subjectivity to a group of people (i.e common sense) ...

[el_empty]

what about the option of designing classes that are more research oriented? not the projek nonsense that we did in f1,f2,(remember those days?) but more current and contemporary fields. the first few lectures can be a quick overview and the rest of the semester becomes a research marathon. not only does it teach practical and technical skills, it hones in on reading and writing skills (and maybe presentation and teamwork too) which i think are far more important than your zombie-like technical input.

[chenchow]

I think making class more research oriented would be a good option, but we need to ensure that students are doing it.

The very hands-on kerja khusus for PMR, like we need to visit historical sites and do extensive research and come up with 100-200 pages of kerja kursus report. That's a good start. I still remember running up and down to various historical sites, district government, police station, JPJ, hospital, railway station, bomba etc... taking photo, doing research in library, brochure, conducting interview, talking to patients, and those officers, and then try to come up with the kerja kursus. I think those are very good learning experience.

One way my school did to ensure that students do something in each subject, is that there would be a project for each subject, which would count 10% into the final grade of the subject. Hence, we would often require to come up with 100-200 pages of report (individual report) although usually interviews, surveys etc are done in group of 3 or 4. I guess that would be pretty useful... That trains the skills that el_empty is mentioning.