misled_youth will hang National Flag upside down on Aug 31

[misled_youth]

31 Aug is not national day. Federation of Malaysia was formed in 1963. 31 Aug bears no meaning to Sabahan's, and Sarawakians.

Merdeka means independence or Freedom from dependence. Are we truly free? We depend upon big brother to tell us how to think, what to do, how to run the country. Are we, the people of Malaysia, tryly free and independent?

We equate freedom and independence with Western Democracy. Our democracy, is nothing more than a mockery.

Malaysia is still a country ruled by the Ringgit, moulded for the wealthy elite, leaving justice and equality, for none.


I am a proud Malaysian. Come Aug 31. I will wear my DIY tee-shirt, with a burning inverted Malaysian flag, to work and to Uni.

Our nation is in a state of undue distress. Denying it exist, only makes it worse.
________
Live sex (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[MASTER]

do u think of changing your nationality?
we have the right to do so.
and I think u have the desire to change your nationality.

[Dubya]

Misled_youth has a right to his own opinion, and though it is bluntly worded, it is not innacurate.

Master, instead of blindly attacking everyone who criticizes Malaysia, why not tell them why you disagree? That is.. if at all you have an opinion, instead of mere ignorance towards the country's problems.

[MASTER]

sorry if I make u misunderstand me.
I have to clarify :

1) I agree with misled, not disagree
2) I didn?t attack him. it?s ur subjective judgement thinks that I am attacking him

I agreee that malaysia is not perfect.
there are many things to be a shame of.
too many things to criticise until it?s better to change the nationality.

and Dubya, I would be appreciate that u wont simply accuse somebody in this forum.
I am not happy when u say I accuse misled blindly.

[__earth]

31 Aug is not national day. Federation of Malaysia was formed in 1963. 31 Aug bears no meaning to Sabahan's, and Sarawakians.

In the US, 4th of July is actually the independence day of New England, the original 13 states that formed the US in 1776. It means nothing for the other 37 states but they still celebrate independence day on 4th of July. Please think about that.

Furthermore, though I do not believe in patriotism, haging the flag upside down is considered rude my most people, even me. Even more if you burn it. And if you really do that instead of simply doing a rhetoric like you always do, then you will have a hard time trying to make people to listen to you willingfully later.

Finally, realize this, the government is not the country. If you hate the government, then hate the government, not the country.

Malaysia is still a country ruled by the Ringgit, moulded for the wealthy elite, leaving justice and equality, for none.

I sense a hint of socialism. =)

[debbie]

Misled_youth.. now i know why you are called Misled youth.. hahaha..^_^ Kidding, kidding. Sorry-lah if you are semi-depraved. I was never patriotic until 2 seconds ago when you just "hit-hard" at M'sia. I'm not counter attacking you. I respect your rights and reasons. M'sia is still a "young" country. Lots of time to grow and mature. Please give us a chance to grow, we're not yet perfect. I'm gritting my teeth. Arghh! I love M'sia. I don't care how soft I sound but if some one, anyone butts in tht way, I juz have tht urge to stand up.
Misled_youth, sama-sama lah kita kibarkan Jalur Gemilang esok.. your's upside down and mine, the proper way round. (Wow.. my Malay is suddenly so good! Hehehe..) Happy National Day, misled youth.

[phantom]

anyway..mr misled_youth....happy working and cracking on merdeka day. :wink:

happy merdeka to others.to all the merdeka babies out there,happy b'day.

[chenchow]

Everyone has their freedom of expression, and it is up to everyone to practice it the way they want. While everyone has their own choice of ways to celebrate/not celebrate National Day, I would propose to those Malaysians out there to reflect on what Malaysia means to you. Is it merely a day where Malaya got its independence? Is there anything that Malaysia lacks now? Is there anything that you could do to make Malaysia a better country? Do you think you have tried your best to make Malaysia a better country? Do you feel "bersyukur" being a Malaysian? Do you feel proud of being a Malaysian? etc etc...

Flying a national flag is symbolic, and it is a good gesture, but please live your Nationalisme spirit beyond that. We care for the nation, and one of the main reasons ReCom is here is to build a united and better Malaysia.

Selamat Hari Merdeka~!

[debbie]

Well said Chenchow. Yeah, emotions aside.. tht's wht really matters. Way to go! Happy National Day!!

[qedx]

hmm one might want to check up on the constitution and other laws, but i think what misled wants to do is illegal in malaysia :(

[digimushu]

on a side note...

http://www.geocities.com/jackyerass/humor.htm

JK!

as _earth says, if you dislike the government, does not mean you dislike the country.

:)

[chenchow]

what do one gets by burning National Flag, besides inviting staring looks from others?

[jiinjoo]

Hey, erm, just wondering... Dubya? Can you please introduce yourself? I hope you're not some reincarnation of some other existing people on this platform. If you're not please disregard this message. Thanks.

We hope that by having a free platform to exchange ideas, that you'll stick to using one account instead of poluting the account name space. It is very disturbing if everyone starts conversing with themselves.


And to misled_youth, it is illegal to burn your national flag. Please don't do that back home, because we don't really want to see you get into trouble.

[Thirdshifter]

In the spirit of Merdeka i think misled_youth is doing the right thing.

The right to put the flag upside down is his own way of being a patriot. If you believe in the freedom of speech, i think that is at it's finest. A protest in peace.

I had many of my American friends doing the same thing when everyone was putting the Spangled banner on everything they could. They started putting it upside down.. anti-jingoism?

[jagganatha]

hmm yes well but this time it wil be the latest freshie's first merdeka like myself and ya i kinda miss all that flags n hype.. it was good.. kinda miss it now once we r abroad.. does anyone else share the same feeling..

[kucingbiru]

yeah, i dont think it's wrong if mislead wants to hang our flag upside down. it's a symbol of emergency or darudat isn't it? it's not like burning the flag or putting it on the floor.

i think he being patriotic. REMEMBER, BEING PATRIOTIC DOESNT REQUIRE ONE TO LOVE THE GOVERNING PARTY. please, unlearn that bs they've been confusing you.

[theT]

the way i see it anti-flag is not "not patriotic."

as Thirdshifter said that is "his (misled youth) own way of being a patriot"

because he love the country that he's doing what he's doing. Fighting for something that he belives is right.

but changing nationality is certainly not patriotic for me.

[qedx]

In the spirit of Merdeka i think misled_youth is doing the right thing.

The right to put the flag upside down is his own way of being a patriot. If you believe in the freedom of speech, i think that is at it's finest. A protest in peace.

I had many of my American friends doing the same thing when everyone was putting the Spangled banner on everything they could. They started putting it upside down.. anti-jingoism?

yeah, well this is not America. are you sure Malaysians have that right? :twisted:

[Thirdshifter]

In the spirit of Merdeka i think misled_youth is doing the right thing.

The right to put the flag upside down is his own way of being a patriot. If you believe in the freedom of speech, i think that is at it's finest. A protest in peace.

I had many of my American friends doing the same thing when everyone was putting the Spangled banner on everything they could. They started putting it upside down.. anti-jingoism?

yeah, well this is not America. are you sure Malaysians have that right? :twisted:

Ofcourse they do. In the constitution every Malaysian is guaranteed freedom of speech & expression.

[ElansarGelmir]

Well, after a long hectic day of orientation, finally i realized (at 1 am, gosh!) that Merdeka Day has already passed... wow... well, i dunno... didn't feel anything... neither patriotic nor guilty for doing so... perhaps i'm overwhelm with my orientation...

[misled_youth]

yeah, i dont think it's wrong if mislead wants to hang our flag upside down. it's a symbol of emergency or darudat isn't it? it's not like burning the flag or putting it on the floor.

i think he being patriotic. REMEMBER, BEING PATRIOTIC DOESNT REQUIRE ONE TO LOVE THE GOVERNING PARTY. please, unlearn that bs they've been confusing you.

Finally. Someone with a brain. Someone who actually did a google search on what the inverted flag means. Someone who won't jump to the gun and say, misled_youth is an attention seeker, a rebel without a cause.

To all of you who hate me, who dreams about busting a cap in my ass, who can't believe how your great country of Malaysia, produced someone so ill mannered and arrogant - I say, you guys provide me with good diversational entertainment.

I hope you guys learn something from me. I make my own reality. I see things through my own eyes. I don't let someone paint how patriotism should be defined. I make my own rules.

Merdeka, starts with yourself

In the US, 4th of July is actually the independence day of New England, the original 13 states that formed the US in 1776. It means nothing for the other 37 states but they still celebrate independence day on 4th of July. Please think about that.

Dei Thamby... I don't stay in You-Ass-Aye, and I don't give a **** what goes on there.

Isreal is the 51st US state. Maybe they should celebrate July 4th as well!

That should be on GW's election agendaagenda.

Furthermore, though I do not believe in patriotism, haging the flag upside down is considered rude my most people, even me. Even more if you burn it. And if you really do that instead of simply doing a rhetoric like you always do, then you will have a hard time trying to make people to listen to you willingfully later.

What's wrong with burning the national flag? What's wrong with objecting nation-hood?

"I say jump you say", "How high?" is that Patriotism?

Patriotism for whom? Yourself? Give me a break!

Patriotism only reinforces the capitalistic system and the (yet again) the legitamcy of the bourgeois class.

I sense a hint of socialism. =)

I sense a waste of public funds in your education.

And to misled_youth, it is illegal to burn your national flag. Please don't do that back home, because we don't really want to see you get into trouble.

It's also illegal to question the legitamacy of Malaysian royals. Yet it is legal for them to squander our taxes to finance their lavish lifestyle!

What next? Expansionary policy via installing a Sultan in Penang? Geez, I should have done my thesis on Economics. Why didn't I listen to my tutor?

The right to put the flag upside down is his own way of being a patriot. If you believe in the freedom of speech, i think that is at it's finest. A protest in peace.

My best moment of flying the Malaysian flag upside down was when I was in the Scout Movement (?? LMS) [This is for special branch to track me down. SB's! YOU WANT SOME OF THIS? I'D TAKE ON ALL YOU FOOLS!].

It was the usual saturday meeting, and we had to fly both scout and malaysian flag. Your's truly was given the task with my wingman.

Because wingman tied the freaking flag upsidedown, and I hoisted it up, without noticing, I was duly rewarded with 50 push-ups, and running 10 rounds around the track.

The DC was there on a visit. Man... he was amused. Wonder if he still remembers my name.

yeah, well this is not America. are you sure Malaysians have that right? :twisted:

There is no such thing as constitutional rights, just as there is no such thing as devine rights.

There are only priviledges.

You EARN your priviledges.
You FIGHT for your priviledges.
God forbid, you even KILL for your priviledges.

---

Sorry guys, I think i might have spoilt the mood for some people who have been living under the tempurung for too long. These people think they are the ****'s that they are JPA/MARA scholars. They think they are a cut above the rest.

What they don't know is, the live their lives defined by the rules and norms of others. They cannot break-free from the social-layering that has been imposed on them since birth.

I transfer my INTERNAL and EXTERNAL realities from the real-world to the internet. I propogate freedom. Not freedom as defined in the US constitution or UN human rights charter. But freedom as an individual. Freedom from being judged. The freedom to be a thinking, rational human being.

Some people cannot, and more likely, CHOOSE NOT TO accept this values. It's too extreme. I think not. It's an inherent behvaiour within us all. To be TRULY FREE.

That's why we fight wars. That's why we destroy ourselves. The ruling elite is powerless should we all be TRULY FREE.

Last but not least: Happy Merdeka to my fellow Malaysians.

Shalom...
________
CHILDREN PRILOSEC (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/prilosec/)

[__earth]

__earth wrote:
In the US, 4th of July is actually the independence day of New England, the original 13 states that formed the US in 1776. It means nothing for the other 37 states but they still celebrate independence day on 4th of July. Please think about that.


Dei Thamby... I don't stay in You-Ass-Aye, and I don't give a **** what goes on there.

Isreal is the 51st US state. Maybe they should celebrate July 4th as well!

That should be on GW's election agendaagenda.

there he goes again. when a legit counterpoint is presented, he is quickly to say its irrelevant and then calls out names.
quite useless to argue with a person that cemented his legs in a small box without thinking a box somewhere else might be better.

[jiinjoo]

i think he being patriotic. REMEMBER, BEING PATRIOTIC DOESNT REQUIRE ONE TO LOVE THE GOVERNING PARTY. please, unlearn that bs they've been confusing you.
I wonder who you're directing this to. I thought we all already have a very clear consensus on this. No need to shout :?

To all of you who hate me, who dreams about busting a cap in my ass, who can't believe how your great country of Malaysia, produced someone so ill mannered and arrogant - I say, you guys provide me with good diversational entertainment.
I felt sad that you got that idea from this forum. When ReCom was set up, the mission is very clear: It's an independent platform for exchange of ideas, in the spirit of sharing knowledge and know how of the young generation of Malaysia. Is has never been a place you come to get hated by people. In that sense I'm disappointed by everyone. We need to show more mutual respect for each other. If this conversation can't go on, how are we going to even start conversing face to face when we're ready to take on the role of moving the country forward?

I make my own reality. I make my own rules.
Well that's great, no matter how much I disagree with your "rules", I'll defend till the end your rights to make your own rules, so long as we do not destroy the social contract that governs our co-existence.

For example, on ReCom, we said, on day one, that there will be no personal attack on other members. If you have a problem with moderation, talk to mods instead of addressing it to public, or else the thread will be locked. Why? Because we want to keep the forum focused on real topics instead of discussing whether a word is considered foul or not, and take steps to correct it before it is presented to the public.

( FYI they have been here since last December: http://nac01.kinetichost.net/~recom/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=230#29777 )

Same goes with the country. There are laws and regulations that has nothing to do with "patriotism", rather, they are contracts of you and your governing body. You pay taxes, in return they give you protection (by running the army), necessities (by running the public utilities) etc. You observe a certain protocol with your neighbors, e.g. you don't climb over their fence and start robbing them. Our laws govern the right to have properties etc. If you violate these laws, no matter how much laws you can make up yourself, it's still considered unlawful. You don't live on a island by yourself.

What's wrong with burning the national flag? What's wrong with objecting nation-hood?
Please don't get me wrong, I cleary said burning the flag is against the law, it has nothing to do with moral question, or freedom to do what you want etc. Burning the flag is wrong just like killing people is wrong, and wrong means unlawful, not my mother say it's wrong.

Objecting nation-hood is?

Patriotism only reinforces the capitalistic system and the (yet again) the legitamcy of the bourgeois class.
If you're against the capitalistic system that Malaysia is going forward with, you can
1. Set up your own base to take over the country and implement a social state, preferably a welfare state much like the scandinavian countries.
2. Move to another country and stay there (either become their citizen or resident)
3. Bitch about it.

And to misled_youth, it is illegal to burn your national flag. Please don't do that back home, because we don't really want to see you get into trouble.

It's also illegal to question the legitamacy of Malaysian royals. Yet it is legal for them to squander our taxes to finance their lavish lifestyle!
Really? Quote me a piece of our legal framework that makes it illegal to question the legitamacy of anyone. I know of certain framework that will let you be held indefinitely if you do something that the law doesn't cover, but the government doesn't like. And I know a lot of people are trying to get rid of that framework. But is there a agreed upon law that thou shall not speak of the king?

My best moment of flying the Malaysian flag upside down was when I was in the Scout Movement (?? LMS) [This is for special branch to track me down. SB's! YOU WANT SOME OF THIS? I'D TAKE ON ALL YOU FOOLS!].

It was the usual saturday meeting, and we had to fly both scout and malaysian flag. Your's truly was given the task with my wingman.

Because wingman tied the freaking flag upsidedown, and I hoisted it up, without noticing, I was duly rewarded with 50 push-ups, and running 10 rounds around the track.

The DC was there on a visit. Man... he was amused. Wonder if he still remembers my name.
Exactly - you accidentally hang it upside down. Were you sent to court or to jail? No. It's the consensus of your group - in the case the scouts - that enforced the punishment. I'm sure the push-ups made you a stronger man :wink:

There is no such thing as constitutional rights, just as there is no such thing as devine rights.

There are only priviledges.

You EARN your priviledges.
You FIGHT for your priviledges.
God forbid, you even KILL for your priviledges.
Well said, if what you said is metaphorical. If you actually wanted to express the words like rights and priviledges in diction, please re-read: http://confinder.richmond.edu/local_malaysia.html
(I have to say this again - why is our constitution not found on our own government's websites ut on some unknown university's site?)

Sorry guys, I think i might have spoilt the mood for some people who have been living under the tempurung for too long. These people think they are the ****'s that they are JPA/MARA scholars. They think they are a cut above the rest.

What they don't know is, the live their lives defined by the rules and norms of others. They cannot break-free from the social-layering that has been imposed on them since birth.

I transfer my INTERNAL and EXTERNAL realities from the real-world to the internet. I propogate freedom. Not freedom as defined in the US constitution or UN human rights charter. But freedom as an individual. Freedom from being judged. The freedom to be a thinking, rational human being.

Some people cannot, and more likely, CHOOSE NOT TO accept this values. It's too extreme. I think not. It's an inherent behvaiour within us all. To be TRULY FREE.

That's why we fight wars. That's why we destroy ourselves. The ruling elite is powerless should we all be TRULY FREE.
If you read George Orwell, you know what it means to be more equal than others. This is the reality today and this is our fight. We cannot just bitch about it and walk away.

You think I'm here for no reason? From a distance I look like a big traitor who decided to leave the country and never come back. Well, at least some of the "patriots" thought so. The fact is after I went overseas and look back at my home, watching all these scholars coming overseas, talking to them, understanding them (this is by no means to impose stereotype, it is just for convenience in expression), I find their thoughts very far from what a mature "patriot" should be, and that's wy I'm laboring, as much as I can, to share, to advice, to listen, to debate, and to imprint on them a different way of looking at themselves and their place in this world.

They are at least the smart people. Their heavy burden should by no means any reason for them to run away from what their future responsibilities are. But they will need help. If you take me as a friend would you stand there and watch me suffer? These "JPA/MARA" students have to go home to make a difference and they need all the help they can get from people like you and me who would most likely end up overseas do you see that?

So if you think their nose is a little bit higher than it should be send a reminder. Be humble so that they can learn to be humble like you. If you think they live under the tempurung, stretch your hand and lift the tempurung, don't just smash it from above and say you didn't know they are inside.

I think we should all propagate freedom, and also propagate peace and humanity. I think most wars are fought way out of proportion because of the demonstration of power beyond what the original motive is. We have tried anarchy before but it doesn't work on earth where we have limited resources and 6 billion people. And most importantly, it doesn't matter that you disagree with me here, because we're here to talk, and to share our ideas.

Fight, for what you believe in, and don't give up.


Finally, some pictures for your amusement.
http://blog.davidteoh.com/archives/2003/09/flags_flags_and.html