Engineering Interest Among Malaysian Students

[chenchow]

With many engineering students and engineers in ReCom, as digimushu initiated, we could play a big part in building the awareness of engineering among Malaysian students, be it in high school or IPTA/IPTS, in particular towards the research and development, as well as the application aspects of engineering.

Anyone has any thoughts on this?

[digimushu]

hrm....Engineering awareness?

I guess the matter is not just engineering awareness but also science awareness. its a matter of making them have interest and see the scince in our everyday lives. We have to make them think outside the box, ask question, and challenge idea if they think it is wrong. Accepting an idea blindly will dull the mind. You must always know the limits of you theory in order to know how to apply it.

We need to make them realize their potential when they are younger so that they will continue to have interest when they reach higher levels in their studies. For example, i was never really interested in studying when i was a lil kid. Even so, i was easily intrugued by how things work. Thus, every new toy i had since i was 6 never lasted a day. Within one day, i would take it apart with the trusty screwdriver and find out how it worksed or ask my parents about it. of course, everytime i put it back together there were always extra screws left over(whoops!).

Research IMHO, is the child of neccessity. Research is bred out of need for newer, better technologies. We have to make them realize, there is a better way to do things, a smarter way and then they will see what needs to be done. Engineering is an application oriented field. Unlike the natural sciences and math, engineers dont do research 'just for fun'. they need to see why they are doing it.

Engineering in M'sia is boring. Sad but true. My dad worked for RTM for 25 years doing the same thing over and over and over again. As they say, an engineering job in m'sia for EE is always working as the maintenance guy. I hope thei will improve in the future but i dont know if any of us can do anything about it.

In short, we need engineers who are research-minded, yes but bear in mind, we need a good balance of other fields as well(Doctors, Scientists, musicians, designers, etc). Although to me, most problems in life have and engineering solution, but that does not mean everyone has to see it that way too.
;)

[jiinjoo]

Couldn't agree more. The qualities mentioned like thinking out of the box are crucial to cultivating good analytical skills to solve engineering problems.

When you say "engineering in Malaysia is boring", I think you're referring to the occupations that are of a repetitive nature. Unfortunately, for every piece of software written, hardware created, wires hooked, light bulb put up, there needs to be another person maintaining it. The maintenance of a piece of technology is an art in its own right.

This means that if you don't want to end up doing that kind of job, you should fight to get out of it and land yourself somewhere interesting. I wouldn't say all engineering jobs in M'sia are boring, but we can look at the problem and ask Why?

Can it be because most of the technology that we use are invented overseas and we become the people who "buy" and then "use" which means "maintain" the technology? If we were writting our own software, designing our own chips, creating our own light bulb etc. (pardon my lack of example), wouldn't there be more "interesting" jobs available?

There must be a reason why we didn't do that in the first place. Maybe it is a cost issue. Maybe we're plain stupid. Maybe people like your dad can't effort to take a pay cut and work in a R&D environment which doesn't guarantee a certained career and a fixed salary so that he can continue to support your family. There are realities.

Following this train of thought, you'll quickly rebutt and say "The Americans (or whoever who creates technology) also have kids to feed!" Then, can it be because our environment isn't condusive to taking such risk, whereas other countries have a risk taking culture?

See where this would end? Our people needs to be provoked into taking risk and doing the R&D and creating new technology and doing the "interesting" engineering work. It's not a given variable - we have to go out there and look for it. There are lots of problems to be solved out there, be it engineering based or not, but it is the human spirit of exploration that we lack.

So what would be a solution to this problem?

[tmnt007]

Indeed, doing research and development has always costs issues.....i.e. where would the money/funding come from? We're talking like thousands of RM to do research and development. As a research student now, I'm still pondering how would I maintain myself to continue doing research without having the funding problems. At the moment, I can only think of becoming an academic professional in a university, and doing research, instead of having a post in industry.......which I don't want to do just yet......would be best to start in industry first, then towards having a good reputation in research, then go back to university and hopefully inspire more engineering students.

[digimushu]

Hrmm...Good points jinjoo, maybe that is why i decided to do grad school instead. As they say, familiarity breeds contempt, at least that is it in my case anyways. ;)

All things considered, R&D in the US has always been military sponsored. Think of the internet. It basically came from DARPA. The SR-71 blackbird and the F-117 Stealth bomber is a byproduct of the cold war.

Basically, i feel that development in technology in the US is a product of the paranoia of the US gov. This, coupled with the fact that many brilliant scientists decide to migrate to the US gives them the ability to catalyze their R&D. Think of it this way, the stealth fighter was built based on a technical paper written by the Russians, most of the nuclear technology that is used in the US has its foundation in people like Enrico Fermi(Italy) and Oppenheimer(Germany) and the list goes on..

So, its basically gifted people from other countries who are building the US and contributing to its hegemony. Why? you might say, because it is supposed to be the land of opportunity. An american friend of mine asked me whether i want to go back or stay in the US after i'm done. I told him i will work a few more years here and then go back. And he asked me why? I told him...the land of opportunity has dried up. if you are not a citizen, you cant get research funding for military projects, which i consider are 'interesting' projects.

Frankly, i don't know about the state of R&D in m'sia. We seem to be shifting focus too quickly to see steady state results. Why cant we just choose to specialize in something, instead of being the jack of all trades?

I will most probably choose to be a faculty in one of our 'esteemed' universities one day. But before then, i want to set up everything my way. As i said in my posts in the 'going back to work?' thread, i would be nice if i can set up my own lab my way and teach my classes my way. only then, i will feel that i am contributing to R&D. hehehe..sounds idealistic huh? or perhaps i can sell my services to the highest bidder, regardless of nation?

Sadly, many of our smart academia people are being forced to look for greener pastures elsewhere since the grass back home is not green enough. I really feel that if we were pushing R&D as the US is, they would all come back since that would mean that being a prof is not a dead-end job anymore.

Any more thoughts on this?

[chenchow]

One of the ways that we could build engineering and perhaps research interest among our high school students.

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/singapore/story/0,4386,273187,00.html?

MORE than 1,000 students from secondary schools and junior colleges across the island will skip classes for three days to conduct experiments at the Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology.


And to fellow Malaysians, in fact, many of those research labs in Malaysia are available for us to visit. I was telling this to a friend of mine, who is studying at University of Rochester. She is studying genetic. Hence, I was giving her links to various research facilities back home and she emailed them, and guess what, during her last summer break, they gave her detailed visit of the labs, plus meeting with those researchers doing research in Malaysia.

Everything is possible. We need to take initiative.

For instance in high school, I am sure we have been to many manufacturing plant, be it Intel, Acer, Sony etc...especially those in Penang, this kind of opportunity is aplenty. I used to go a lot, and what I find it wierd is that in this land of US, many college students, for instance studying in ECE, most haven't even stepped into any manufacturing plant...

[gonjeng]

heh, as much as i hate to admit, i would have to concur on most you guy's opinions on R&D in mesia. and heh, digimushu...

reading "engineering in mesia is boring", "set up my own lab my way and teach the classes my way" and other phrases as well, it hit my mind that "heh, aku ade geng!" hahaha... i have been thinking about the same thing. being in the line of research here in US really makes me wanna do somewhat the same thing back home. but after i have been asking around, more and more discourage i become.

the place where im working at right now was establish about 2 years back - its very new. the plan in 3,4 years time is to separate from school and stand alone, thus enabling us to make some profit from the research done. now having to see what it takes to establish sth here, i did try to imagine myself do the same thing back home, tp aiseh... it may not be impossible but damn hard i can say. besides all the reasons, which were mentioned earlier, the money is just not there. here, the funding doesnt come from military but more from companies/consultancies. some of them have hundred of thousands to spend. therefore, its not hard from them to 'salur'kan some to us. however, i dont think this is the case back in mesia. unless if im wrong, even if you or your company is proven to be damn capable of doing sth, that doesnt mean ppl (other establish companies, goverment, etc) will entrust you their cash to do some research for them. why? IMHO, it is mainly due to the mentality of the ppl. after all this while, all we have been doing is maintaining stuff... well to some little extend, inovating as well. to some ppl i talked to, they agree that we have the capability to 'invent' and thus, have to start working on that area. yet, most of them says it is risky and hence, its better to stay in the 'comfort' zone... well, unless the goverment is willing to help in terms of grants of what not. ntah...

another fren of mine was working with the development of some 'classified' stuff - aerospace related... or at least, thats what he claimed :p since, it is for military stuff, the goverment was in to some extend. however, now he has his own company and decides to develop foreign tech rather than mesia's. why? coz, he said, the goverment is full of bullcraps, politics and birocrasy (ehh how do you spell 'birokrasi' hah? hehehe...). he didnt explain much though...

heh im not sure how what i said helps or relevent to this thread, tp to my knowledge, thats the current situation right now. im not sure, though, whether its the same thing with other engineering fields since i am focusing on mainly the aerospace industry :)

on being in the university and teaching... heh, i also share the same thought. but if that were to happen, my only condition is i wanna teach, to some extend, my way. the goal is to produce a practical engineer and not academical engineer (the ones who are good at solving homework Qs but suxx in real life stuff) or, even, theoretical engineer.

and heh, a point to note. it would be nice to introduce SAE (society of automotive engineering) to univ's in mesia. this is an international organization, which holds few competitions - mainly in aeronautical and automotive. it is when the students design, look for $$$ and build the stuff themselves. it can be either airplanes, 'F-1' cars, etc. ive been to their aerodesign competition here. my r/mate went to for F-1 competition and he said, there were students from japan, singapore, europes, etc. i dont see why mesia shouldnt participate. this way, ppl will be educated, not just the engineering stuff, but how reality works - the fact they have to find $$$, etc.

huh, tetiba my brain goes into 'stand-by' mode... blurr kejap. anyway, thats my take on the way to go as far as 'breeding' R&D generations. the rest are just some of my unfragmented thoughts, hopefully it makes some sense, hehehe... and heh, out of curiosity, does mesia's military gives out grant or what not to group of ppl/companies for R&D purposes???

[digimushu]

Gonjeng,

I'm glad that someone has the same sentiments as me. as he says, engineering in m'sia is boring not just in the work it self but also in the education. When i was doing my undergrad, i was involved in the mini-baja and the American solar car challenge, which is very valuable experience for both grad school and work. As i have said, engineering education in M'sia is very dated and needs radical improvements. Involvement in the SAE competitons will push for radical R&D in the area of automotive engineering.

Chenchow,

We are not giving up on M'sia. just that as gonjeng pointed out, our area of expertise is not needed in m'sia right now. Going back when you are not needed will render you useless and helpless as far as the situation goes. I've been visiting my freinds in UTM and UTP, both very good uni for Eng in m'sia and honestly, i can tell you, the research that they do is 'cheap' and 'rudimentary' compared to what is being done in the US. In the world of engineering, you either advance or move backwards. if u stay still, everyone will pass you just like that. Remember, an electrical engineer will become obsolete 3 years after he/she graduated. either you keep improving yourself or wait and get left behind.

[Europa]

You know what guys?
I've thought of this before but came to nearly the same conclusion as the rest of you.

For my argument I'll use S'pore as an exampe to illustrate my points.

Look across the Causeway guys. PM Lee just called upon their overseas citizens for their opinions and help in further developing S'pore. Within a week, the g'ovt received what, 400 SMSes from them with suggestions, tips or references to people that they think could help achieve that goal. Some readily offered their services by returning home to serve for the country!

As for our country, our PM just mentioned about our country's brain drain and tried to implement steps to 'attract' or 'ease' their return, hence arresting the brain drain. Somehow this doesn't makes sense doesn't it? Over there in S'pore, their PM just asked their citizens for help and over here, we need to entice ours to return? I'm not saying we are not patriotic, but I think something is wrong fundamentally.

I understand some of the sentiments of not coming back. I just think that the government does not realise that for some of those abroad, the infrastructure, facilities, staff, funding and marketablity concerns in M'sia is not properly addressed yet. If we look at S'pore again and compared it to our own country, we can see there is a huge gap in how research is conducted isn't it?

We can see that the S'porean government is fully committed to R&D, attracting foreign researchers to set up shop in their new Biopolis, garnering huge publicity and making legistlation that eases the R&D companies to conduct their research, plus committing their financial commitment to the enterprise. And besides that(yes, there's more to it) the govt strongly encourages their students to involve themselves in S&T, also giving chances to students to undergo mentorships under Universitiy Professors and in the Universities the undergrads get to witness some hi-level research being conducted there! As for M'sia, we just launched Bio Valley with little fanfare, government pledges their support with some financial backing, and that is about all for this year. Yeah, some robotics and rocketing competition is also held, but little else is reported in the papers.

So with all these reasons, who's to blame for our country's researchers, engineers and other professionals not returning home to M'sia?

[digimushu]

Time to liven this thread up a lil bit.

So, one thing that I have noticed about our tertiary education in engineering is that the students are taught to memorize some equations and use them to solve problems. That is BS. The main reason why companies are so reluctant to hire our local grads compare with foreign grads is because our curiculum is substandard and meant more for drone-breeding and producing a 'skilled' workforce. Compared to the grads from even some unranked universities, we are just producing mindless workers that have no sense of innovation, creativity, or aspiration.

IMHO, our curiculum should be revamped so student will question the professors if they think something is wrong or not correct. They should be critical and curious so that in time, we can have our very own R&D hub, not some mumbo-jumbo-castle-in-the-air plan which is executed half heartedly. The university officials should worry about how they are lagging behind other universities, as opposed to worrying about students dyeing their hair.

We should learn to be critical of things in a positive manner, so that we can contribute to the growth of the field and not just use ideas and applications.

Also, we have to find a way way to make coming back more appealing to the experts in their respective fields, without looking at the color of the skin. That way, the bright minds of today, can help produce the bright minds of tomorrow. You reap what you sow, if you continue to teach outdated stuff, it will catch up with you real soon.

Our universities have to learn the value added in making the curicullum more active and interactive. Just by adding one more year of internship does not help. you have to start the training when the students are fresh, not after they have been conditioned to be drones. your have to promote self-learning amongst the students, and that grades do not matter that much, as long as you have learned at the end of the day.

That is my opinion of our educational system. Its good to have some free time again.