UiTM and non-Bumi's

[misled_youth]

The recent debacle concerning Ling Liong Sik and UiTM has gave rise to another round of Chinese bashing by the elitist.

What's your take on this?

Remember Pak Lah's speech on National Day? All is equal? Hello? Wasn't National Day just a few weeks ago?

Note: Some will say Ling clarified his statement. What I wish to bring up here, is not Ling's comment, but the REACTION to his comment (which I thought was childish).
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[phantom]

eventually these bumi graduates from UiTM wont even know how to mix with their indian and chinese friends.they wont know how to work in a team with other races.they wont even know what to say and how to react with the compatriots who shared one land with them.they will be in their old attitudes.never want to grow.never want to break from the status-quo.never want to challenge things.never want to fight to be on the top.

i realized the gov is working day and night to increase the number of malay professionals.a noble intention needed fervently to reduce sharply the socio-economic gap.but come to think about it,are these malay professionals thankful to the goverment ?Hell NO!!

the 1st thing these ppl will buy when they got the gov contract was a big BMW car so that they can show off to others.without even realizing that they are in debt half a million to the bank just becoz of that stupid car.

honestly,these ppl are not growing.they absoluety need the non-malay friends to learn something and to teach something.

these ppl have heard so much negative remarks about other races,they need to mingle just to realize not e;thing is true and race has nothing to do with some craps.

[Thirdshifter]

Phantom,

You know who taught them right? You know why Certain Malay businessman are like that right? Sould we blame them or blame the current Special rights that got them there and many more non-qualified ungrateful Malay students to Universities, Overseas included?

By not qualified i mean, Parents that are Rich, Middle-Class, or can afford your education or we be able to pay a loan, Have grades worst then any other races in school who's parents are poorer too.

[misled_youth]

PROTEST: phantom and thirdshifter going out of topic.

No malay bashing please.

No racial prejudice in ReCom please, even if you are bashing people from your same race.

What I wanted to bring out, was our Malaysian tendency to race-bash. It's not a race problem. It's a Malaysian problem.

phantom and shifty, please show some maturity. (Yeah yeah, flame me all you want regarding maturity).

Phantom does have a valid point: ProBumi policies are causing racial polarisation.

I know Malay and Indian members in Chinese guilds, UTAR, TARc, www.soundscape-records.com, etc.

I know Chinese/Indian skaters, rockers, policemen, firemen etc.

My point: It seems the little people, are setting a better example than our leaders.

Recently Pak Lah spoke about Agenda Melayu. Man, that was disappointing. And to think he gave his "I have a dream" speech just a couple of weeks ago during national day parade.

Note: Misled_youth can get a little emotional at times, but most of time, he's pretty sober.

Budweiser, official beverage of the devil.
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[Thirdshifter]

Budweiser, official beverage of the devil.

I disagree!

Anyways, I wasn't bashing. I'm just stating my opinion why it's happening and will continue to happen.

In Malaysia, self-segregation is normal. It's rare to go to Mc Donalds and see a bunch of friends hanging out eating that are not just one race. Either in KL or Segamat.

UiTM just makes it official. Politically incorrect? There's so many other non-goverment higher learning institution that teaches in Chinese only and are most likely to accept chinese applicant only.
Similar to UiTM, but one is Public property and one is private.

UiTM should be opened to all. Either that of privitize it. Let MARA be privitized as well and then uitm will be legit and could choose to accept or discriminate anybody they want. Right now it's not, and all the best Mr Vice-Chancelor could say is "You should not question it, this is the right every one agrees with...." While your saying that let me strategically place myself behind your back and shove it up your ass.

Uitm is to create more Malays profesianals? Bull shit! thats the lamest argument i ever heard.

There's atleast 10 university that are using the racial-quota system. It could be applied to UiTM as well.

The only reason they don't want to do it is because they (UMNO) want to create a geneation of Pro-Bumiputera-ist so they could stay relevant and be in power.

To end UiTM non-bumiputera discriminations vote UMNO out.

[chenchow]

I agree with misled_youth that this is a Malaysian problem and in fact, every race in Malaysia, does face that problem and is a culprit of it as well.

While it is easy to point our fingers out and say that the policy makers or governments are making it, but how about our neighbours who are of different races compared to us? Do we mingle exactly just like we mingle with someone of the same race? how about our colleagues? classmates? friends that we do activities together?

While it is easy to show that there are some who are doing it well, but majority of Malaysians are still mingling with its own race. it is something that we should go back to fundamental and change it from the root.

While it is heartening to hear that many students have their first few true friends of other races in National Service, it is something that we need to work on and rectify, and it should be something remedied towards the younger generation and not only those 20% that get the chance to go NS and spend 3 months with fellow Malaysians across races.

It is really sad that why all of us can't just share a platform and get to know each other. Tak kenal maka tak cinta.

I think, the setting up of UiTM is to build up a bigger middle-class of Malay. While I am not going to debate whether it is good to keep it only for Malay, I think that you guys have a valid point in saying that we should inter-mingle. While UTAR, KTAR, AIMST etc have a few percentage of students of other races, 90+% of students are still dominated by a single race, and in the long run, this is not healthy.

I am also very saddened by the fact that very few non-bumi take up the offer to study in MRSM. Only 2/3 of the 10% quota is filled up. The question is why? And even though those students were placed in 5 MRSM throughout the country, i.e. each MRSM would have 100 or so non-bumi, hence any thought of marginalization or isolation would have been quashed, and we still can't attract non-bumi to apply and enroll in MRSM. Only 10% of bumiputera that apply for MRSM get in, whereas for non-bumi, more than 70-80% get accepted, and yet choose not to enroll.

[digimushu]

much as I am saddened by the discrimination, i'm not surprised. *shrugs*

[DecentMerson]

I think, the setting up of UiTM is to build up a bigger middle-class of Malay. While I am not going to debate whether it is good to keep it only for Malay, I think that you guys have a valid point in saying that we should inter-mingle. While UTAR, KTAR, AIMST etc have a few percentage of students of other races, 90+% of students are still dominated by a single race, and in the long run, this is not healthy.

I am also very saddened by the fact that very few non-bumi take up the offer to study in MRSM. Only 2/3 of the 10% quota is filled up. The question is why? And even though those students were placed in 5 MRSM throughout the country, i.e. each MRSM would have 100 or so non-bumi, hence any thought of marginalization or isolation would have been quashed, and we still can't attract non-bumi to apply and enroll in MRSM. Only 10% of bumiputera that apply for MRSM get in, whereas for non-bumi, more than 70-80% get accepted, and yet choose not to enroll.

There's so many other non-goverment higher learning institution that teaches in Chinese only and are most likely to accept chinese applicant only.

i agree... but i would like to clarify a point...

TAR college do accept student of other races.... just that few of them(of other races) apply to it....

while UiTM, Chinese are just not ALLOWED...

and i think that's one of the roots of the problem....

In Malaysia, self-segregation is normal. It's rare to go to Mc Donalds and see a bunch of friends hanging out eating that are not just one race. Either in KL or Segamat.

such cases happen everywhere.... even in the States, in many other countries like Singapore, and Australia.... so, wat's the problem with that???

.... just to make things straight....
p/s: i dun see any racial bashing....to me, all facts posted here are logical...

[opaqa]

I don't think it's very nice to stereotype people and making naive assumptions (for example, like what Phantom did in the second post of this forum).

As for UiTM not opening space to non-bumis...

Although I detest any type of discrimination, I do feel that it is not possible to eliminate the benefits given to the bumis all at once. Bumis consist about 60% of the whole malaysian population. What do you think will happen if the government suddenly decide to remove all the privileges that the bumis have been enjoying all these years?

Making spaces available to non-bumis in UiTM will definitely make UiTM more competitive. but IMHO, it won't affect racial unity much.

I'm still seeing, everywhere, Malays only mingling with Malays, Chinese only mingling with Chinese, etc. Chinese and Indians sending their children to Chinese schools and Indian primary schools, respectively, does not help contribute towards racial unity (i'm sorry if this is a sensitive issue). I'm not saying that we should eliminate these schools, but maybe we can make these schools like schools for additional education. Like go to sekolah kebangsaan in the morning and then chinese/indian school in the afternoon. educating people about racial unity from when they are children/youngsters will help so much more than trying to instill it when they are in college. umm... i think i'm getting off topic. sorry about that.

I do hope that UiTM will be open to all, including non-bumis, soon or some time in the future. the gov't must eventually remove all of their discriminating policies. if not at once, then little by little. we have to keep fighting for it. not as chinese, malays or indians, but as malaysians. racial unity will do it.

[aquila]

I am also very saddened by the fact that very few non-bumi take up the offer to study in MRSM. Only 2/3 of the 10% quota is filled up. The question is why? And even though those students were placed in 5 MRSM throughout the country, i.e. each MRSM would have 100 or so non-bumi, hence any thought of marginalization or isolation would have been quashed, and we still can't attract non-bumi to apply and enroll in MRSM. Only 10% of bumiputera that apply for MRSM get in, whereas for non-bumi, more than 70-80% get accepted, and yet choose not to enroll.

My brother is in MRSM and I know for a fact that some positions in organizations (eg president) are reserved for Malays. I think this is a very discriminatory practice. I've seen it before (in my former school where 90% students are Malay) so it really distresses me. Why RESERVE spots for people because of their skin color? Shouldn't we vote on the basis of efficiency, etc? Economics will tell you that countries that practice discrimination will lose a competitive edge in the end. Kinda like self selection in the global economy. Discrimination leads to inefficieny, which then leads to competitive disadvantage. Makes sense?

[kucingbiru]

if "yes" to non-bumi in uitm, why not say "yes" to non-bumi in umno?

[wyeoh]

if "yes" to non-bumi in uitm, why not say "yes" to non-bumi in umno?

Imagine the repurcussions. It would probably need to change its name, change its insignia, change its outlook.. hell, it would be a totally different party. :) As for non-Bumis joining UMNO, the current condition is as good as it gets.

As for the politically correct racial bashing so far here, I must ask a question. Is it me, or are most active members in ReCom non-Malays. It is hard to guess the race of the person behind the avatar, but small deductions and such brought me to arrive at such a conclusion. It would be great to hear the opinions of our Malay counterparts in this.

As for obvious racial segregation in Malaysia, that is definitely a fact. But so is class segregation, age segregation, gender segregation, etc. Do we complain about that? Why make racial differences the easy target, when you obviously don't see everyday that a bloke with the Queen's English speak to another fellow with a 100% pure-bred Manglish. It is a matter of preferences, and convenience. We fall back to our safety nets, into the comfort zone. And we are comfortable with others who are SIMILAR to us, be it race, gender or class.

The day racial segregation stops, is when the government start a homogenizing program where everyone cross breeds. LOL, *starting to imagine that policy in action now.

So, instead of complaining about it, be mature about it and think of effective ways to minimize this. The law isn't what's causing racial barriers. It is the culture that is. The problem isn't how many Chinese students get into MRSM or how many non-Chinese gets into UTAR. Those are just numbers, statistics. Look for the reasons behind them. I have a suspicion that even if, and that's a big if that all quota systems get abolished tomorrow, we would still have a somewhat segregated educational system.

[Thirdshifter]

wyeoh,

I know for certain that earth__ , Budak_kerek master of none, Bachok, Da hype, Me, Luke are Malays. Heck i think most of the active members are Malays.

[wyeoh]

wyeoh,

I know for certain that earth__ , Budak_kerek master of none, Bachok, Da hype, Me, Luke are Malays. Heck i think most of the active members are Malays.

Reply... ahh... there goes my deduction skills... ahahaha... my sincerest apologies for the honest mistake then. :)

[chenchow]

So, instead of complaining about it, be mature about it and think of effective ways to minimize this. The law isn't what's causing racial barriers. It is the culture that is. The problem isn't how many Chinese students get into MRSM or how many non-Chinese gets into UTAR. Those are just numbers, statistics. Look for the reasons behind them. I have a suspicion that even if, and that's a big if that all quota systems get abolished tomorrow, we would still have a somewhat segregated educational system.

I think that the role that we could play in ReCom and perhaps in the larger society would be to look into the long-run cultural barrier... How could we transcend the society and get people to mingle? How do we get people to cooperate, when people don't even get the chance to even work with one another? Or even if people get the chance, their mindset is more or less set?

I am interested to hear from ReComers about any successful attempts/efforts in integrating racial harmony, or promoting racial sharing/awareness that any ReComers have done. This could be something that others in ReCom could replicate and bring greater effects towards promoting racial harmony in our country...

One thing, with reference to the question by wyeoh and the reply from thirdshifter, I think via ReCom, we have managed to provide an avenue for Malaysians, without looking at what race you are, an opportunity to share your opinion, have an audience to hear what you are going to say, and learn from one another. One of the visions in ReCom is about promoting racial harmony. So, I guess we may have digressed from the topic, but I guess this issue transcends the topic of this thread.

[shimania]

I think, the setting up of UiTM is to build up a bigger middle-class of Malay. While I am not going to debate whether it is good to keep it only for Malay, I think that you guys have a valid point in saying that we should inter-mingle. While UTAR, KTAR, AIMST etc have a few percentage of students of other races, 90+% of students are still dominated by a single race, and in the long run, this is not healthy.

I am also very saddened by the fact that very few non-bumi take up the offer to study in MRSM. Only 2/3 of the 10% quota is filled up. The question is why? And even though those students were placed in 5 MRSM throughout the country, i.e. each MRSM would have 100 or so non-bumi, hence any thought of marginalization or isolation would have been quashed, and we still can't attract non-bumi to apply and enroll in MRSM. Only 10% of bumiputera that apply for MRSM get in, whereas for non-bumi, more than 70-80% get accepted, and yet choose not to enroll.

Is it prudent to question why non-Bumis are not filling up the 10% quota allocated, and just acknowledging that segregation is unhealthy, while ignoring the root question, whether it's fair for govt to officially sanction that UiTM can only accomodate 10% of non-Bumis ? :P :P :P

[Patrick]

I think that this worsening problem concerning racial integration is mainly because of the mindset that most Malaysians have.

You see, the Chinese tend to think that they're better than others. They will only mix with those whom they think is of their standard.
That's why in my college, although not UiTM, and in some other institutions (high school, tuition centres), it's really difficult to mix with them due to their snobbish character.

On the other hand, some Malays are inferior to the Chinese. They don't want to embarass themselves. As a result, we see them mingling only with the ones of the same skin colour as them. Some even think that the Chinese are plague-bearers. They think that the Chinese bring negative influences such as gambling, and is often associated with vulgarity.

Take note that I used the word "tend" and "some." Not everyone thinks the same way. This is just one generalisation from my observation.

As I am in a Malay-dominated college, it's almost impossible to survive without making friends with them. It's not difficult actually. One just has to break the ice. Show them that we're good people. Justify our sincerity.

And, there are capable Malays out there, but their reputation is tarnished by the less capable ones. Let's see it this way. We're all equal. There are good Malays, and there are bad ones. It's the same when it comes to the Chinese, the Indians, Punjabis, etc.

[budakkerek]

has anyone thought of the problem of communication as being the main reason why most chinese, malays n indians (or any other races, for dat matter) dont mix w each other?

[Ic3b3rg]

Caution: Digression

:P hi. i just want to say that i was in a national primary and a national secondary school. throughout my school years, i have friends from a lot of races. I was in the top class in my school and so most of my friends are very smart. but after UPSR, most of my smart malay friends go to boarding schools. then in secondary school, a lot of my primary school friends started mixing again with students from other primary school. at first it was awkward but after a while we get pretty close and the competition got pretty healthy and comradely. but after PMR, we had to cry again because a lot of our malay friends have to leave for boarding schools again. In form 4 and form 5 most of my closest friends are chinese. we go everywhere together and we are like soul-mates. if i am guilty of racial polarization then, i apologize. but you see, i have been with this group of friends since primary school, and it is hard to artificially break these bonds and to bond with certain people just to form the image of a *united* society.

[Gemini_gal]

Racial issues have always been, is and will be a sensitive issue.. Since the chinise and Indians first came to Tanah Melayu, it sparked a racial issue. The Malays did not want to give up their prerogations while the Chinse and Indians wanted legitimate rights. After 48 years of pronoucing Independence, standng srong as one multi racial nation, it is sad, in fact very depressing to say that we have not yet achieved independance, when perused in the true meaning of INDEPENDANCE..

Being in uitm, it is undeniable that they give extra and i really mean extra privelledges for the bumi's. It is seen ieven in the dress code. We are suppose to wear bajukurung every mon's and fri's. Only long sleeves are allowed for women. Although the good side of this rule is seen that is- no revealing clothes visible, but let us look at the difficult part of it. Y can't we wear normal short sleeves? I do not think such clothes will pique anyone.. The studies are also predicated for them, askew towards English Language.

The best part is the cliques formed during group works. The Bumi's with their own and the non-Bumi's with themselves. Is this a seperate world? Aren;t we meant to be together? In future, if ever we are attacked by other invaders, I assume the scenarin will be like this- If it is harmful for the non-bumi's then only the non-Bumi's army will fight: and vice versa for the Bumi's.

The most common phenomena is when a non-Bumi scores higher marks. The other's tend to see them differently, being prejudice towrds them.Instead why dont they sit together and study? won;t it lead to the betterment of both parties? This scenario is not only visible in Uitm but since primary schools..

Let us all be a little open minded. It is wise to think out of the box. Whay arent';s we united, I repeat TRULY UNITED as a nation? let us not have this kind of ill feelings towards each other. Be one nation, suceed as one nation.

[Patrick]

Being in uitm, it is undeniable that they give extra and i really mean extra privelledges for the bumi's. It is seen ieven in the dress code. We are suppose to wear bajukurung every mon's and fri's. Only long sleeves are allowed for women. Although the good side of this rule is seen that is- no revealing clothes visible, but let us look at the difficult part of it. Y can't we wear normal short sleeves? I do not think such clothes will pique anyone.. The studies are also predicated for them, askew towards English Language.



You're lucky. My place here requires the female students to wear baju kurung every day and the male ones have to wear formal daily.

O_o

[nick_khaw]

I think that this worsening problem concerning racial integration is mainly because of the mindset that most Malaysians have.

You see, the Chinese tend to think that they're better than others. They will only mix with those whom they think is of their standard.
That's why in my college, although not UiTM, and in some other institutions (high school, tuition centres), it's really difficult to mix with them due to their snobbish character.

On the other hand, some Malays are inferior to the Chinese. They don't want to embarass themselves. As a result, we see them mingling only with the ones of the same skin colour as them. Some even think that the Chinese are plague-bearers. They think that the Chinese bring negative influences such as gambling, and is often associated with vulgarity.

Take note that I used the word "tend" and "some." Not everyone thinks the same way. This is just one generalisation from my observation.

As I am in a Malay-dominated college, it's almost impossible to survive without making friends with them. It's not difficult actually. One just has to break the ice. Show them that we're good people. Justify our sincerity.

And, there are capable Malays out there, but their reputation is tarnished by the less capable ones. Let's see it this way. We're all equal. There are good Malays, and there are bad ones. It's the same when it comes to the Chinese, the Indians, Punjabis, etc.

I think that that was a fantastic post, very mature and very to the point. In fact, this thread is a good one, where people are able to air their views on polarization while not exactly crossing the lines of bashing.

Racial issues, as Gemini_gal said, have always been, is, and will always be a sensitive issue. However, let us try to take the opinions from each other, whether it criticizes our own race or not, with a pinch of salt, and take it as a point of discussion.

[vseehua]

i wonder if we can sometime in the future just sit around and talk just about everything including the so-called sensitive issues without us being too emotional...

it's not that when it's sensitive, we can't discuss it properly, but the current malaysian mindset is that we can't even touch on that topic for fear of ethnical confrontation...

imho, sensitive issues are the most important and dangerous issues facing us right now in malaysia, if we can't even solve these issues in a harmonic way, we can't ever be truely united...

and hey, if this can come true, we might even one day minum kopi together and joke about the silly past that we have... and i am glad that recom had provided us with such a platform, though not that effectively...hehe...

[Zeroth]

I just thought of this, and it may well be illogical. Will things be better if everyone is thought the main mother tongue languages? Everyone regardless of race is thought malay, mandarin as well as tamil or asked to choose another language other than the mother tongue. It will be more difficult initially to cope with the amount i guess, but on the long run, it would probably improve the situation by a little.

In my opinion, there isnt really much tension going around as much anymore. Maybe tensions in education and economics, but in the streets, i don't see much of them. But then again, maybe i havent seen society upclose.

IMHO, there's no point in our discussion either, we will never come to a conclusion that is feasible for change.