Proselytizing in Malaysia

[misled_youth]

This is something that I'm aware is happening throughout Malaysia. The proselytizing of Malay Muslims.

His evangelical church has 12 branches throughout Malaysia and 30 affiliates, and Mr. Kumar estimates that 100 Muslims are converting to Christianity every month in the country. He said there has been a marked increase in interest in the past three years, since the September 11 attacks in the United States. A royal family and the daughter of a former prime minister are among his list of converts.
Christian groups estimate that there are 30,000 Malay converts in the country. Some Muslim groups say the figure is much lower. However, nondenominational observers say most converts live in secrecy for fear of harassment from the government, family and fellow Malays.
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040819-111615-8930r.htm

I bring this up because this is of national importance.

We must firstly recognise that under the Federal Constitution, all Malaysians are guaranteed the freedom of religion. Yet, our legal web is as such, that renouncing Islam means risking apostasy charges by the Syariah Court.

misled_youth is torn in this issue. On one hand, he feels that the rights and wishes of every individual should be respected. That is in the spirit of democracy and humanity. On the other hand, I feel that these evangalist are flouting the law, and should therefore be punished.

But what about the other issues like civil disobedience and the question of individual choice?

MODERATOR: Show some maturity and allow this thread to flourish.
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[hungwei]

I stand by the right to proselytize.

Religion is about faith and believing in God. So its God's business, not man's. And remember, we learned in our secondary school history that "Nabi Mohammad never coerce anyone convert to Islam" and that "Islam means peace". It is true in Malaysia that Muslims do not force others to convert, but I believe that the Nabi also implies that all man has the freedom to choose, regardless of whether they have already taken up a religion or not.

Besides, I don't see the point of impeding proselytization. What they have suceeded so far is keeping people under the name of Islam, whereas they have failed to keep their hearts in Islam. These people have already emigrated in their hearts to other faiths.

If they really want to uphold Islam as the dominant religion in Malaysia they should instead use a diplomatic approach to appeal and convince their fellow Muslims that they should stay where they believe.

Make sense?

[luke]

If they really want to uphold Islam as the dominant religion in Malaysia they should instead use a diplomatic approach to appeal and convince their fellow Muslims that they should stay where they believe.
What diplomatic approach are you suggesting here?

[hungwei]

Well I believe that the Prime Minister is doing something like that now. He just launch something called "Islam Hidari"....or whatever, i've forgotten what it's called. Saw it on New York Times paper. It's rumored to have the purpose of appeasing Muslim's concern that the govenment is not doing enough to make Malaysia a truly islamic country.

Sorry, can't really elaborate much.....I've already forgotton most of what i read. Perhaps you can seach NYT's archive for the article. It also mentioned something about the proselytizing in Malaysia.

[misled_youth]

honestly, apart from Pak Lah, no one is really sure what the heck is Islam Hadhari.

However, I have a theory why UMNO is so afraid of proselytizing.

UMNO is held together by race and religion (despite the fact that there are christian members of UMNO).

If their roots are fragmented in terms of religion, they would have less bargaining power. Disunity would affect their policy making abilities.

Well... it's a debatable theory I guess.
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[__earth]

Well I believe that the Prime Minister is doing something like that now. He just launch something called "Islam Hidari"....or whatever, i've forgotten what it's called. Saw it on New York Times paper. It's rumored to have the purpose of appeasing Muslim's concern that the govenment is not doing enough to make Malaysia a truly islamic country.

Sorry, can't really elaborate much.....I've already forgotton most of what i read. Perhaps you can seach NYT's archive for the article. It also mentioned something about the proselytizing in Malaysia.

how can you point up something when you can't remember the supporting fact?

[hungwei]

Earth, what I've written are my opinions, I never say that they are supported by actual facts. Which means that I could be wrong, and you could be wrong. I merely wanted to point out that there is an interesting article out there related to this topic. I did not say that they consolidate my thoughts. Please bear that in mind next time.

[__earth]

Earth, what I've written are my opinions, I never say that they are supported by actual facts. Which means that I could be wrong, and you could be wrong. I merely wanted to point out that there is an interesting article out there related to this topic. I did not say that they consolidate my thoughts. Please bear that in mind next time.

i could be wrong? but I haven't say anything about it yet.

All im saying is, to form an opinion, you need something to back it up. You can't make up a point without supporting it. It's irrational.

[hungwei]

Midled_youth:

That's a probable theory. What I know of Islam Hadhari is that it is going to make Malaysia look more "Islamic", perhaps part of the government agenda to unite all the Muslims.

[SpRInG]

There is no doubt that all Malaysians are guaranteed the freedom of religion, although it's not 100% of the time. Erm, may I know, how are the evangelists considered flouting the law, and therefore should be punished?

[hungwei]

Earth:
I can see that you kept on making the connection between the article which i have partially forgotten and my opinions. You didn't understood what I was saying. Again, I would like to repeat in good gesture that my opinions and the article has a probable relation....but the support for my opinion doesn't come from the article. Now let's get back to the topic and stop arguing about what an opinion is. Don't be offended though =)

[misled_youth]

Do any of you realise that 'the law' is against the constitution? But that's another topic altogether.

Hungwei: Does putrajaya look like some Middle Eastern country, or does it reflect multiethnic Malaysia?

Earth: The synonym of Islam Hadhari can by found in any dictionary - Look under "rhetoric".

OMG... now Noh Omar is gonna threaten me with ISA and wait for me at KLIA in March. Do they want my flight number as well?
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[MASTER]

[hungwei]

Putrajaya a middle east city? Yeah, just came to realize it, with the exception of a bit of modern touch to the architecture. I don't see anything that reflects the multicultural Malaysia.
I guess we just have to put up with it. Putrajaya is after all the capital of a "Muslim country", and they want to make sure that they convey such an image anyone who visit it.

[phantom]

misled_youth wrote:

However, I have a theory why UMNO is so afraid of proselytizing.

UMNO is held together by race and religion (despite the fact that there are christian members of UMNO).

If their roots are fragmented in terms of religion, they would have less bargaining power. Disunity would affect their policy making abilities.


Well... it's a debatable theory I guess.




well,are you sure,the malay muslims from PAS,Keadian,and those who have no interest in politics at all will not react negatively watching one by one muslim throwing their faiths away?ARE YOU SURE ONLY UMNO DUDES WILL CHOOSE TO ACT SEVERELY ON THIS MATTER?

ur theory is unjustified.sure,UMNO is an easy scapegoat.but come to think about it,r u sure the rest of malays,regardless whether they pray or not,will love to see proselytizing to run rampant in our country,be there a muslim country or not?


let me remind you that, Washington News and New York Times are LIBERAL mass medias.puting ur mind only on the liberal shoes seem UNreasonable in a country like m'sia where fundamentalists are gaining more power day by day.

My uncle is an christian fundamentalist,and he has mentioned to me again and again about malays muslims who chose to embrace christianity over islam.though prophet Muhammad had said.." no coerce in embracing islam"

he didn't mention no coerce in leaving islam,did he?

weird but true,islam has weird prespective on those who chose to proselytize.though i disagree with this rule,it seems next to impossible to question it.

[misled_youth]

let me remind you that, Washington News and New York Times are LIBERAL mass medias.puting ur mind only on the liberal shoes seem UNreasonable in a country like m'sia where fundamentalists are gaining more power day by day.

Off topic!

Anyhoo, we do have liberal media in Malaysia. E.g:

- Sin chiew
- Perspective pedas
- Tamil Namban
- Harian Metro
- Malaysiakini

In all languages to boot!

Off-topic: Malaysiakini.com has launched BM version. Next up, Chinese!

puting ur mind only on the liberal shoes seem UNreasonable in a country like m'sia where fundamentalists are gaining more power day by day.

It's only unreasonable to the narrowminded. phantom, do you know what is 'newspeak' and 'crimethink'?
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[wawa]

maybe instead of thinking wether such action is flouting the law, we could focus on wether such actions are justified and fair.
Laws change all the time; 60 years ago women had no rights, now the law has changed dramatically.

[aquila]

let me remind you that, Washington News and New York Times are LIBERAL mass medias.puting ur mind only on the liberal shoes seem UNreasonable in a country like m'sia where fundamentalists are gaining more power day by day.


It's interesting that you should say Washington Times is liberal because it's not. NYT is hardcore liberal but Wash Times is known as a conservative newspaper, along with the Wall Street Journal.

[topdog]

let me remind you that, Washington News and New York Times are LIBERAL mass medias...

It's interesting that you should say Washington Times is liberal because it's not. NYT is hardcore liberal but Wash Times is known as a conservative newspaper, along with the Wall Street Journal.
he said Washington News...perhaps he really meant Washington Post? Washington Post is liberal.