A world-class research university for Malaysia

Charis and I had some discussions on this matter a while ago, and here's what we came up with that we would like to share with the recom community. Comments and debate most welcomed.

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We applaud the Prime Minister's recent announcement of the
government's intention to make conditions in Malaysia conducive to
research and development efforts and thus to attract home Malaysian
scientists and researchers abroad. Malaysia has industrialised rapidly
over the past few decades, but she cannot rely on manufacturing
forever; this move to strengthen R&D is timely.

The 'brain drain' of the most talented Malaysians to other countries
is no accident. The failure of our universities to attract and retain
the best talent stems from the following factors.

First, the salary offered to lecturers is not competitive. A junior
professor's salary at US research universities start at about RM20,000
a month. Factoring in the difference in cost of living, this figure is
equivalent to almost RM9,000 in Malaysia, much higher than the RM3,000
currently offered to starting lecturers.

Second, there is inadequate research funding available. The setting up
of IRPA (Intensification of Research in Priority Areas) under the 7th
Malaysia Plan (1995-2000) was a step in the right direction, but the
yearly average of around RM100 million allocated for R&D is not enough
to be globally competitive. Countries like the United States and Japan
that have benefited significantly from R&D spend billions of dollars a
year on research.

Third, there is too little emphasis on research. Local university
staff teach up to twenty in-class hours a week and do much of their
own marking. This leaves little time to do research. By way of
contrast, science department staff at US research universities usually
teach three in-class hours a week, with some junior staff given a
lighter teaching load to enable them to concentrate on research. In
addition, almost all the marking and tutorials are conducted by
postgraduate teaching assistants.

Fourth, the Malaysian research community does not have a critical mass
of researchers and is not integrated into the global community. These
factors are vitally important given the increasingly collaborative
nature of scientific research. For instance, genomics researchers who
use complex computational models do collaborate with researchers in
mathematics and computer science.

Finally, recognition of talent is lacking. Almost all university
lecturers are guaranteed lifetime employment regardless of
performance. Furthermore, to our best of knowledge, job performance,
namely performance in research and teaching, is often not the main
criterion for promotions and for the awarding of research funding.

Transforming all the universities in Malaysia into world-class
research institutions is both extremely difficult and requires
enormous amounts of money. We therefore propose, as an initial step
forward, that the government focus its efforts on developing a single
world-class research university.

A single world-class research university is far better than multiple
mediocre universities. It will be able to contribute to the bulk of
the nation's R&D effort and lead Malaysia into becoming a developed
nation. For instance, it is the few top universities in the United
States that have made the most of the breakthroughs in research, thus
enabling the United States to be the world leader in science and
technology. In contrast, Europe's egalitarian funding policies have
been cited as a contributing factor to their comparatively weak R&D
sector.

What do we envision for this world-class research university?

A world-class university needs world-class professors. In this regard,
we should not only focus our efforts on attracting talented Malaysian
researchers abroad, but also on brilliant researchers of other
nationalities. Most expatriates love living in Malaysia, but
unfortunately this fact is not well-known overseas.

In light of the importance of connections and collaboration in
scientific research, the initial-stage hiring should focus more on
established researchers than on freshly-minted PhDs. Many countries
that have recently built up their R&D sector have done precisely this.
Notable examples include Nobel laureate Prof. Yang Chen Ning's return
to China and the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology's
recent recruitment of Prof. Robert Laughlin from Stanford, also a
Nobel laureate.

In order for the first-class brains to go about their work, this
world-class university needs significantly more research funding.
Basic research should be the major focus, because most significant
scientific progress relies on basic research.

In addition, while salary is not the utmost concern for many
researchers, most talented people would like to be fairly compensated
according to prevailing market rates. It is unrealistic to expect a
world-class professor to relocate to Malaysia if he or she is being
compensated much less than he or she would be overseas.

Furthermore, promotion and distribution of research funding need to be
fair and transparent. Our public universities are entrenched in the
procedures of the Civil Service, which in our opinion, are unsuitable
for research universities.

We therefore propose that our world-class university adopt world-class
hiring and promotion procedures. We are most familiar with the US
system, where promising young people are hired as junior faculty and
given 6 to 8 years to prove themselves. After that period of time,
they are subject to external peer review and only the outstanding
professors who have done world-class research are retained.

Running a world-class university is a costly venture, but it is
nonetheless worthy of a long-term national investment.

It is necessary for the government to provide the initial funding but
when the university is successful, contributions from private
companies and alumni could supplement a significant portion of the
required expenses. In fact, this is the case with many top US
universities, such as MIT and Stanford University, where private
industry funding increased significantly after these universities
proved to be capable of supplying valuable knowledge to the private
sector.

We expect the 21st century to be an era where rapid advancements in
the sciences will result in unprecedented improvements in living
standards. Advanced scientific knowledge will be highly valuable and
nations that invest in this scientific revolution will gain
significant advantage over those that are reluctant to do so.

Ong Shien Jin
Massachusetts, USA

Charis Quay Huei Li
California, USA

Ong Shien Jin and Charis Quay Huei Li are doctoral students at Harvard
University and Stanford University respectively.

[digimushu]

Great ideas!

however, don't we already have MUST?

http://www.must.edu.my/

AFAIK, it is the only school in M'sia whose interests are heavily invested in research....

[Zepnomaniac]

dddd

[digimushu]

...
In order for the first-class brains to go about their work, this
world-class university needs significantly more research funding.
Basic research should be the major focus, because most significant
scientific progress relies on basic research.
...


Sorry to disagree but I think there has to be enough balance between application research and fundamental theoretical research.

This is because if we do not have applications for stuff, what is the use of doing research on it? E.G. Why try to solve the Navier-Stokes equation if there is no application for it in fluid dynamics(It has a LOT of application...and there is a USD$1 Million price for finding the closed form solution)?

The US created LCD screens but never found any useful applications for it. The Japanese took the idea and make tonnes of stuff with it. This tells us that to expand the research of the university as well as the amount of industrial and governmental funding, we have to show that the university has the ability to gather critical mass and start bringing in money on its own, and not just being a big 'black hole' for money.

Just my thoughts...

[morpheous]

aarh...good topis this is.. morpheous say...paste old lost article in recom server's crisis, opportunity it present....


Another groupt vulnerable to accusations of espionage
were Chinese Intellectuals at the universities who
were capable of designing technology vital to national
security. As Communist China developed into a world
powerand technologically competent cold war component,
many American officials failed to distinguish between
Chinese Americans and foreign Chinese nationals, nor
they did overcome the suspicion that members of both
groups were passing secrets to the PRC. With new State
Department regulations, the Immigration and Nationalit
Act of 1952, and President Harry's proclamation of
1953,the American government assumed the power to stop
the departure of foreigners whose knowledge might
jeorpadize national security. As a result, some 120
Chinese Intellectuals were detained and not permitted
to leave for years.
One of these was Dr.Tsien Hsu-Shen , a top Chinese
aerodynamicist who helped pioneer the American space
program before involved in one of the strangest
episode of cold war history. His story illustrates not
only the capriciosness of the American government
during the McCarthy era, but also the disastrous
consequences for U.S defense budget brought about by
the frenzied witch hunts of the time.
Though much of Tsien's later life is hidden in
shadow,the story of his early days is relatively
straightforward. In 1935, Tsien arrived in the United
States on a Boxer Rebellion scholarship to study at
MIT, and then later at Cal Tech. He rapidly ascended
to the very top of his profession, making substantial
contributions to both American science and national
defense. He revolutionized the fields of fluid
dynamics,the buckling of structures, rocketry, and
engineering cybernetics, all of which helped the U.S
enter into the space age early. While still a graduate
student at Cal Tech, he helped found the Jet
Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, where he was
intimately involved in designing some of America's
earliest missiles. Because his contributions during
World War II were so valuable, the U.S government
repeatedly granted Tsien clearance to work on
classified government projects, despite his legal
status as a China national. By the end of the war,
Tsien had received numerous commendations and praise
from the American military establishment.
In 1949, the year Chinas fell to the Communists,Tsien
must have decided that his future no longer lay with
his homeland, but with the United State. He applied
for U.S citizenship and accepted a professorship at
and directorship of the Jet Propulsion National
Laboratory of the California Institute of Technology.
What he had not counted on, however, was America's
entrance into cold war hysteria. In 1950, the FBI
accused him of being a former member of the American
Communist Partyu, on the grounds that during the 1930s
he had befriended a number of pro-Communist Cal Tech
students.
Although Tsien fervently denied being a Communist, the
U.S government revoked his security clearance,
something Tsien considered an unforgivably insult,
especially after his record of substantial
contribution to the U.S war effort. A proud man, he
impulsively decided to return to China. After
informing Cal Tech that he was taking an indefinite
leave of absense, he booked for himself and his family
to mainland China. His real troubles began when a U.S
custom agents found thousands of pounds of scientific
papers in his luggage. Believing he had nabbed a spy
red-handed, the agent held a press conference to
announce that he discovered secret "code books" in
Tsien's possession.
The Los Angeles media went wild, printing articles
with headlines such as "SECRET DATA SEIZED IN CHINA
SHIPMENT."The putative codebooks in Tsien's luggage
turned out to be logarithmic tables, and a subsequent
government investigation disclosed that nothing at all
in the shipment had been classified. But the newspaper
did not run a retraction or even a follow-up story,
leaving many readers believing Tsien was indeed an
agent for the PRC.
Within days of the seizure of his baggage, Tsien was
arrested and locked in a cell in San Pedro for more
than two weeks. Confused if not panicked, he lost
twenty pounds. The renowned physicist Robert
Oppenheimer offered his help, suggesting that Tsien
move to Princeton University. That turned out not to
be an option for Tsien. Upon his release, the
Immigration and Naturalization Service, to the
surprise of everyone, started deportation hearings
against him, proceeding on the grounds that Tsien, a
foreign national Communist, was an undesirable alien
deportable by law.
The government kept Tsien in a state of limbo while
trying to decided what to do with him. One
faction-mainly defense officials- fought to keep him
in the United States, arguing that his technical
knowledge was too valuable to let fall into the hands
of Communist China, while another -primarily
immigration authorities-believed he should be packed
off. Meanwhile , the government would not let Tsien
leave the boundaries of Los Angeles until his case was
resolved. For five years, from 1950 to 1955, he lived
under constant FBI surveillance with his phone bugged,
his mail opened and read, his family followed in the
steets. Finally, on September 17, 1955, the U.S
government deported Tsien and his family to mainland
China.
Whether Tsien was a Communist in the United States
cannot be determined, but the evidence suggests that
he was not. His wife was the daughter of a top
military strategist for Chiang Kai-Shek, and survivors
of the Cal Tech Communist cell to which Tsien had
alledgly belonged insist he was not a member. After a
five-year investigation, the INS failed to turn up any
documentary proof of Tsien's Communist involvement.As
it turned out, however, his political leanings had no
bearing whatsoever on the final decision to deport
him. Decades later, declassified State Department
documents revealed that the United States and the PRC
had negotiated a secret prisoner swap: Tsien Huse-Shen
for a group of American POWs captured during the
Korean War.
In the end, the case against Tsien hurt rather than
helped U.S national defense. By deporting him, the
nation lost a first-class scientist who almost
certainly would have been a valued adviser to the
American lunar and missile programs. As early as 1949,
Tsien had predicted that a trip to the moon would be
possible within thirty years and that the journey
could be accomplished in a week. Meanwhile, with
Tsien's return the PRC gained a man who helped launch
a technological revolution in his homeland. As the
director of the Fifth Academy of National Defense,
China's first missile institute, Tsien oversaw the
development of China's first generation of nuclear
missiles, the Dongfeng "East Wind" series. He also
proposed and guided the development of the first
artificial Chinese satellite, a tracking and control
telemetry network for ICBMs.
Perhaps Tsien's attorney, Grant B. Cooper, best summed
up the the repercussions to the United States of its
irrational persecution of Tsien:" That this government
permitted this genius,this scientific genius, to be
sent to Communist China to pick his brains is one of
the tragedies of this century."



well done to charis and shien jin!!!
who is this Jiang wei that are able to see thro my dark schemes?.... so said Zhuge Liang in ROTK classics....
so say something morpheous must..

first, proposal to have a world-class university already been discussed by certain malay academicians in local unis few years back,if morpheous recall....submitted the idea they did to malaysia government...and shot it down..malaysia government did...there ..answer for these two brave recomers..okay..end of story...there is no need to bring it up again.both of you are not the first malaysians to bring this up. :?

second, restoration of meritocracy in malaysia.this sounds..nope..that way doesn't way....benefits who?the non-bumi researchers like shien jing and charis? :lol:
come on, malaysia this is. uphold NEP/NDP they must at all costs..for maintaining social stability and social hierachy in malaysia(rich becomes richer,poor becomes poorer,the powerful becomes more powerful....the uneducated?..must remains uneducated... what else..go back to agriculture they all must...the same old british colony master tactic..hahaa!!..:twisted: !!).
channel suport and funding to MSC/ICT and biotecnology(agriculture!?) this must..
this is where the bulk of future malays students are going to study and find related-jobs(government's created bowl of iron jobs).many bright malay students are being sponsored or got their scholarship to study these fields,they have.. already decided, the wheel of motion.
must import these "knowledge" for malaysia's sake and benefits.hahaha.. :twisted: .the only knowledge, malaysian politicians and high-ranking government officials able to buy from foreigners... good future there are for these two fields..so said the foreign academicians,industrialists, CEOs, investors,professionals....
must depends on biotechnology/agriculture...to create the next generation of malay professionals and middle&upper middle class .and this must happens.....8O

third,too bad charis and shien jing are not really in these fields...ICT is to replace computer science and mathematics ..biotechnology is to replace biology science...independent you are,shien jing,not sponsored, not that "loyal" to our cause, you are,....work you must under a sponsored students turned politicians' crony ..an ICT major...not at the top of food chain you are.... :lol:
you charis too, work under another sponsored student politicians' crony...a nanotechnology major..you should....
to hit malaysia...this future wave will be...
already in near completion,this devised and conceived curriculum and syllabus by foreigners...need young malaysian students as guinea pigs this must be surely be tested on their minds.... :evil:
microelectronics to replace and wipe out electrical engineering and physics curriculum and syllabus we already did that.....
construction management course to replace and wipe out civil engineering .....
mechatronics to dilute, replace and wipe out mechanical engineering....how about chemical engineering and chemistry...hahaha..Tan Sri Dr. Ng..ceo of UTAR is a chemist...her breed will be last to wipe out and make extinct ..of course...how about material science/engineering courses created to divert government funding to a politician's crony instead of a genuine chemist or genuine chemical engineer??haahaaahaaa!! :twisted: what a web of conspiracies and deceits we weaved......a systematic total destruction of malaysians genuine intellectuals, academicians, researchers and scientists must happen to pave way for "economic slavery and colonization" of future young malaysians..work for foreign multinational corporations they must.....industry workers they be..near at the bottom of food chain...hahaaha!!! :evil: .a conspiracy of decades old..right under millions of malaysians noses..and we get away with it..hahaha!!!.. :twisted:

aargh.must explain in fashionable way for recomers.especially for those "budak mentah" in secondary schools.....
jedi order versus the sith order..hunt them down, persecute them....and wipe them out and have them replaced by our dark seeds....
ancient old relations of Liu Pei and Zhuge Liang..a politician/leader and a scientist...a fish as to water..who's who at the top of food chain in developed nations..leaders?scientists?engineers/technologists?...economists??...the wheel of socio-economic changes.....both of you must recall...Liong Sik and Tan sri dr.ng (a chemist)..?mahathir and engineers/technologists..property developers,contractors,etc.....build infrastructure..build..build.. build..hahaha :lol: smart buildings they are!!!??

for changes must correspond to inner truth so said I-Ching' s revolution hexagram......entire malaysians parents and grandparents generation ignore old wise sayings...unable to fathom its cryptic meaning...the ultimate price all must pay.....for listening to mahathir singing to the tune of masses.... :lol:

the two laws on power?both of you should remember...:
power without control is useless, to have power with control,one needs loyalty...hence the sponsoring and scholarship to entice top SPM achievers... :evil:

fourth,MUST??bleeds ringgit out of malaysia,this private education establishment must do...for foreigners and certain malaysian politicians' cause...accumulating ringgit overseas as war chest for another round of money politics within party elections.....
phds from US universities definitely awarded to both of you..work you must for MUST to make ringgit flows to americans' coffers....if both of you want to return to malaysia...and both end up as lecturers there... :P


last, decided already malaysia's fate by developed nations for the next 16-20 years..remained world's factories it must...part of world-wide conspiracy this is....an advanced developing nation status it be by year 2020...spinning web of deceits we are good at....hoodwinking developing nations citizens still in slumberland we strive for......one played good cop and other played bad cop....swaying the citizens' will toward rulers like wind bending the grass..our specialty..government propanda machinery are our weapons...darth siduous and count dooku..senator palpatine(Mahathir?liong sik?) to become emperor.....exterminating the jedi order.(intellectuals class).....our ultimate objectives.... :wink:

for the clear and present danger to malaysia does not come from outside but from within...... :wink:
a reformasi or revolution ..both of you decide.... :?:
stay in USA or return to Malaysia...both of you decide.. :?:

peace be with you both..and cheers up...!!

[chenchow]

This is a very essential issue and I really hope that ReComers would take this issue seriously and think about.

While this issue has been raised before, I believe that the voice from those Malaysians who are currently doing top notch research are very essential. I would really hope that Malaysian Government would take note of Shien Jin and Charis opinion, as well as the opinion of ReComers.

Hence, I would really want ReComers to discuss in depth on this issue and bring out to the local media.

There is nothing to lose in bringing this issue again and again to the media. and I strongly feel that in this way, we can get more people to get this idea across.

Unfortunately, I would be going out of town in a very short while for conferences, hence I won't be able to participate in this discussion and debate in the next few days till next wednesday, but with my heartiest wish, I hope ReComers brainstorm on this issue.

Research is essential for Malaysia and we should help share this burden to provide good recommendations for our country!

[el_empty]

shien jin and charis (viva connecticut~!),

will this be published somewhere, or is it a press release?

[masterof_none]

I try, now and then, to be a non-conformist, but this time, I agree 1000% of what Shien Jin and Charis wrote.

The government has to realize the "No Pain No Gain" word. If the government designated one university, for example, University Malaya to be the better U than Nanyang Tech or whatever in Singapore, the government must be prepared to spend a lot of money on that.

I think currently, Education is really the biggest budget. But the question is that the allocation of the funds.


Why try to solve the Navier-Stokes equation if there is no application for it in fluid dynamics


Why not?

If the funding issue has been setteld, we can decide what we want to solve and achieve - for example, we can do research on how to improve current 'MyKad'. Or even sending people to the moon.
I think the 'research' part and the 'apps' part become more blurry as the times goes on.

Also, about the LCD, Transistor, memory, personal computer, these are all invented here in the US (Most of them in developed here in California) and refined by Japanese, but it doesn't matter right? Americans are usually interested in the quest, and how to combine things. But if they fails to see the market, at least they created it.

Of course, there's a danger of not meeting the expectation. But that's just another risk. It's better than not doing it at all.

I'm more than happy to help out with the development of the university, if it ever exist. Right now, I think the closest one that I can 'see' from my backyard is MMU-Melaka in Bukit Beruang. But it could be any college.

There's a potential fear that Malaysian people might not understand why such spending needs to be made. But i think if the people understand (and I believe so), it could be done.

Singapore is our closest model, apart from the US & UK.

I think it's the time for Malaysians to forget about their inferiority complex. Malaysia Boleh ? yes. Everyone is welcome.

[digimushu]

Yep,

As masterof_none says, we are ready to help out as needed. bring it on!

[cryzpene]

our local private colleges are doing well as in attracting foreign students. maybe that's a good starting point. i dont think top U.S. universities began first with the aim of becoming leading universities in the world but simply with some more humble objectives like to train children of the middle-class in technical skillls etc.

[masterof_none]

first, proposal to have a world-class university already been discussed by certain malay academicians in local unis few years back,if morpheous recall....submitted the idea they did to malaysia government...and shot it down..malaysia government did...there ..answer for these two brave recomers..okay..end of story...there is no need to bring it up again.both of you are not the first malaysians to bring this up. :?


Maybe, but who cares right?. Probably the idea was shot down because their proposal does not really reflects the current reality that we're facing right now. Too much political is also a problem. You can read this Lim Kit Siang's insight here

http://www.malaysia.net/dap/lks2389.htm

But the problem in Malaysia is that, it's got too much political influence over each and any decision. Why can't we just forget about all the differences and strive for a common goal. ?

May sound a little bit unrealistic but, I think if we all don't change our mentality, it's not going to work. Malaysia would become stagnant.
Or even worse off. If it's not going to affect you, it might affect your children, relatives, who ever in Malaysia.



second, restoration of meritocracy in malaysia.this sounds..nope..that way doesn't way....benefits who?the non-bumi researchers like shien jing and charis? :lol:
come on, malaysia this is. uphold NEP/NDP they must at all costs..for maintaining social stability and social hierachy in malaysia(rich becomes richer,poor becomes poorer,the powerful becomes more powerful....the uneducated?..must remains uneducated... what else..go back to agriculture they all must...the same old british colony master tactic..hahaa!!..:twisted: !!).
channel suport and funding to MSC/ICT and biotecnology(agriculture!?) this must..
this is where the bulk of future malays students are going to study and find related-jobs(government's created bowl of iron jobs).many bright malay students are being sponsored or got their scholarship to study these fields,they have.. already decided, the wheel of motion.


You mean only Malay students? You better check out the list again.

I don't know and I still don't understand why Malaysia jump in the bandwagon to get into those Biotechnology hype. But at any rate, we haven't accomplish our goal to be the multimedia hub. We can do more with computers. Also , there are more to learn in this world than computers. We all know that.



must import these "knowledge" for malaysia's sake and benefits.hahaha.. :twisted: .the only knowledge, malaysian politicians and high-ranking government officials able to buy from foreigners... good future there are for these two fields..so said the foreign academicians,industrialists, CEOs, investors,professionals....
must depends on biotechnology/agriculture...to create the next generation of malay professionals and middle&upper middle class .and this must happens.....8O


Once again, only Malay students?. Things have changed, but if you still stuck with this kind of mentality, we won't go anywhere.

I know there are a lot of Malay professionals in the government, but some non-Malay also benefits from those contacts as well. So I don't see any differences here.

The only difference that we can make is that, to think differently.
Like what Shien Jin and Charis and all of us Recommers trying to do.



third,too bad charis and shien jing are not really in these fields...ICT is to replace computer science and mathematics ..biotechnology is to replace biology science...independent you are,shien jing,not sponsored, not that "loyal" to our cause, you are,....work you must under a sponsored students turned politicians' crony ..an ICT major...not at the top of food chain you are.... :lol:


Who? You might think that all of us Malay JPA scholars are bad cronies right? Even if they are, politics are everywhere. Even in the US, who are you working with? Probably DARPA, to build another machine to shoot people. Is there any difference here?

Also, I still believe that the 'science' is where we get all the apps.
Without the chinese remainder theory,and modulo arithmetic, etc in math, I don't think RSA would materialize. ask Shien Jin. He's the pro.

We can safely forget about the ICT hype,etc if we don't understand and dependent on the west for more theories that revolutionize the world.


you charis too, work under another sponsored student politicians' crony...a nanotechnology major..you should....
to hit malaysia...this future wave will be...
already in near completion,this devised and conceived curriculum and syllabus by foreigners...need young malaysian students as guinea pigs this must be surely be tested on their minds.... :evil:
microelectronics to replace and wipe out electrical engineering and physics curriculum and syllabus we already did that.....
construction management course to replace and wipe out civil engineering .....
mechatronics to dilute, replace and wipe out mechanical engineering....how about chemical engineering and chemistry...hahaha..Tan Sri Dr. Ng..ceo of UTAR is a chemist...her breed will be last to wipe out and make extinct ..of course...how about material science/engineering courses created to divert government funding to a politician's crony instead of a genuine chemist or genuine chemical engineer??haahaaahaaa!! :twisted: what a web of conspiracies and deceits we weaved......a systematic total destruction of malaysians genuine intellectuals, academicians, researchers and scientists must happen to pave way for "economic slavery and colonization" of future young malaysians..work for foreign multinational corporations they must.....industry workers they be..near at the bottom of food chain...hahaaha!!! :evil: .a conspiracy of decades old..right under millions of malaysians noses..and we get away with it..hahaha!!!.. :twisted:


Again, If you're working in the US, do you think you can get away with politics?. Or even worse, the US now treat us foreigners quite badly recently. If Malaysia can give the same pay, isn't that neat to go back to Malaysia? Do you think it's easy to get Nasi Lemak and good Penang Char kuew teao here? You must be dreaming


aargh.must explain in fashionable way for recomers.especially for those "budak mentah" in secondary schools.....
jedi order versus the sith order..hunt them down, persecute them....and wipe them out and have them replaced by our dark seeds....

Yeah , I think you must, especially you should accompany some claims with links. It helps people to understand what are you trying to say.


fourth,MUST??bleeds ringgit out of malaysia,this private education establishment must do...for foreigners and certain malaysian politicians' cause...accumulating ringgit overseas as war chest for another round of money politics within party elections.....
phds from US universities definitely awarded to both of you..work you must for MUST to make ringgit flows to americans' coffers....if both of you want to return to malaysia...and both end up as lecturers there... :P


I'm not sure where are you heading here. You mean money politics is good, bad , or what?


last, decided already malaysia's fate by developed nations for the next 16-20 years..remained world's factories it must...part of world-wide conspiracy this is....an advanced developing nation status it be by year 2020...spinning web of deceits we are good at....hoodwinking developing nations citizens still in slumberland we strive for......one played good cop and other played bad cop....swaying the citizens' will toward rulers like wind bending the grass..our specialty..government propanda machinery are our weapons...darth siduous and count dooku..senator palpatine(Mahathir?liong sik?) to become emperor.....exterminating the jedi order.(intellectuals class).....our ultimate objectives.... :wink:


I think you have lots of brilliant points. What I understand is that you're advising these two persons and probably the non-Malay ReCommers to think again why you should waste time going back to Malaysia, if they have a good position in the US, UK, or wherever. And view the Malays who control the government as corrupted and unrepairable situation, so that Malaysia become like a sick old house, with sick people inside.

My answer is , why not?. These people love their country, and they want to contribute. Of course we want to maximize our contribution, that's why we're here. we want to get together and decide which one is the best among those options. For me, the establishment of world class university is one of those dreams, and I'm sure one of those dreams for the ReCommers as well. Why don't we give a shot?
If we fails, at least we tried. If you have a copy of the failed proposal, we would like to read, and learn why it fails. But even if our proposal fails, that doesn't mean we should stop there.

[cquayhl]

OK, first I'll preface by saying that I'm speaking here for myself only, not for Shien Jin.

I've put up a 'longer' version that we wrote at: http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/smf/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?OngQuay20041120
The main difference is the references.

digimushu, yes, we've heard of MUST. It's an interesting idea. I don't know enough to judge whether they are getting 'good' people. Do you?

On a tangent, I'll indulge in one small joke...a MUST ad for vacant posts was making the rounds here. Someone said, 'Hmm..."a university based on the MIT model in Malaysia". Does that mean I get to go to Malaysia and be denied tenure?' :-)

MUST is private though, not public. A whimsical thought: Let MUST and UPM (or whichever becomes the favoured public U) fight it out? Is it good for them to have compete Or is that a waste of resources? What do people think? One possible good outcome is that funding practices may get looked at. At the moment, from what I understand, department heads at our public universities are almost the only people who have any say in which projects get approved. This is, of course, quite different from what we're used to in the States.

I wonder where is MUST getting its money from and how, and how much there is. Who are the MUST Ehsan Foundation? The UPM stats are on the wiki page.

There needs in the end to be a fundamental change of culture, but I'm not sure how it's going to happen. E.g. In addition to the funding woes, I hear that what would here be considered nonstandard attribution of authorship happens with some frequency at our public universities. What would be interesting would be to have someone who's done research in a science- or technology-related field both in Malaysia and abroad comment on the cultural differences and prospects for change.

morpheous, you'll have to express yourself a little more clearly. I'm afraid I don't understand. Also, we haven't said anything about going home or not. In fact, I am of the opinion that recruiting should be done at the top; at this stage in our careers, we are almost worthless to the country. This is a country-point-of-view article, not an our-point-of-view article, or at least that was the hope.

el_empty, we submitted this to both NST and the Star in early October and neither paper published it. We were hoping to involve Malaysians doing bleeding edge reseach abroad in a public discussion - just what Chen Chow is talking about - but perhaps ReCom will prove to be a better forum for this. So...discuss, discuss!

I think the biggest missing factor here is political will. We have the money. And the human capital - if they can be persuaded to return, but it's probably going to be more difficult the second (or nth?) time...
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sunday/Columns/20040926082202/Article/indexb_html
Oops. The link is broken. Basically an article by Rose Ismail along the lines of 'almost everyone recruited in the last Brain Gain round has left the country again'. Don't quote me. I have a bad memory. But one does hear things. There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between public 'policy' statements and the situation on the ground. Sadly, this is one of the instances where we can't do much...except write articles that people refuse to publish. :-P

Of course, we left unasked and unanswered the question of whether Malaysia as a not-quite-developed nation really needs this sort of university.

OK...ehough idle speculation. Back to work on the interminable but still-not-enough degree! :-)

[digimushu]

Charis,

About MUST, no pun intended but i have friends who are doing grad school there and from what i heard, the 'tak apa' attitude is still there. It is mostly privately funded and they are doing mostly applications research in hands with their industrial partners.

However.....their application research is the type that has already been done to death in most uni's in the US. Even some of my colleagues here in VT has already been in some of the fields for sometime already(MEMS, heat transfer, photonics).

honestly, i'd rather have professors in charge of independent labs in the university and getting the funding independently for their research, such as in VT. In the mechanical engineering dept alone, we have the labs specializing in smart materials, turbomachinery, combustion, fluid dynamics and vehicle dynamics. All the labs are controlled independently by directors who are also professors in the department. they goout and try to secure funding and if they do get it, a certain percentage goes to the dept and the university for use of university grounds for research. Pretty much it uses the idea of Adam Smith's 'invisible hand'. All the labs go out to get $$$ to survive in their different areas and end up bringing in more money for the dept.

Of course, this is easier said than done, considering the how the lukewarm efforts to reduce the brain drain are being done. i'm sorry to say this, but getting tenure in local universities sux. the amount of 'clout' a prof has in the department is decided by seniority, AFAIK, which is different than in the US, where you clout is decided by the amount of funding you bring in.

Plus, the research in m'sia is uninteresting and not even close to what is being done in US, UK.

i'm sure the tenured dinosaurs in m'sian unis are happy sitting where they are. they would not be happy if someone young and wet behind the ears came by and knock them off their pedestals. To see what i mean, just go to UTM, or UTP and prod the professors with some questions and you will see how they are often apprehensive about asking questions.

Another system we have in VT that i feel should have is the idea of 'University distinguished professors'. These are professors who bring in a lot of funding to the department, or are prominent academicians (in other words, they write great text books which are widely in use). we have 5 of those professors in VT, and they are selected from the 5 colleges we have within the campus. These professors have a say in what happens in university policy and are selected based on their amazing track record in academics and research.

Well, i guess those are my thoughts on our 'ideal university'. i really dont know how we can pull this off if the mentality of the universities in m'sia does not change...

[misled_youth]

I asked my friend last nite, who is a research scholar in NUS (fully sponsored by Sing Gov) - How do I go about begging for PhD scholarship and get into UM?

Amidst the gaffaws and the heckling, he tells me that UM isn't worth chicken sh*t (is there a more articulate way to put this?)

But I really really really want a plaque from UM. Sentimental value lah...

But apart from the few diehards like me, who holds UM to such high regards? Well... not even our ministers it seems.

So what, if any is the real problem with our local universities?

- Insufficient funding
- Infiltration of BN puppet masters into student politics
- Race based policies
- Substandard teaching

...Just to name a few.


I'm sure we've all heard horror stories before. e.g. Students teaching Lecturer's how to work out equations, Lecturer's falling asleep, lab assistants selling morphine, Dean's swindling money.

While I applaud prince's effort in asking for more R&D, I think we really need to deconstruct the issue to determine the myriad problems with have with the present system.

The first step starts with all of us. We cannot have a World-class anything, without shedding out Low-class mentality.

Personally, I would like to see UM serving better food. 24/ mamak food is not healthy.
________
LIVE SEX (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[liverpoolfc]

"Third, there is too little emphasis on research. Local university
staff teach up to twenty in-class hours a week and do much of their own marking. This leaves little time to do research."

This is NOT TRUE. The Malaysian system is different than the US system in that there are no weekly homework assignments. There is only a midterm and a final examination and it is fine, in fact, better, if the marking were to be left to the Profs. Also, which university in Malaysia requires their Profs to teach 4 hours a day? 6 hours a week is considered a heavy load already. Please check fact.

"Finally, recognition of talent is lacking. Almost all university
lecturers are guaranteed lifetime employment regardless of
performance. Furthermore, to our best of knowledge, job performance, namely performance in research and teaching, is often not the main criterion for promotions and for the awarding of research funding."

This is NOT TRUE. There is no tenure system in Malaysia and the Profs' contracts are renewed each year based on their performance. However, the situation is extremely political to the point where it got very disgusting. (Have you guys ever read about Profs "kena gantung" during the height of the Anwar scandal? Where is the guaranteed lifetime appointment?)

"At the moment, from what I understand, department heads at our public universities are almost the only people who have any say in which projects get approved."

This is blatantly FALSE. Please check fact. There is a university committee that decides which projects get funded. If you are the dept. head, maybe, you will have more clout, but, that's it. You do not have full say.

"Running a world-class university is a costly venture, but it is
nonetheless worthy of a long-term national investment."

Is it more important than to increase the standard of living of the poor tobacco farmers in Kelantan, develop the rural inacessible areas of Sarawak and alleviate poverty in the country?

"Sadly, this is one of the instances where we can't do much...except write articles that people refuse to publish."

If you were the editor of the newspapers, would you publish a letter criticising the universitiy system in Malaysia and praising the American university system by two "smug" phD students from world-renowned univeristies? How will he/she know whether you have lost touch with the realities of the country and what you suggest is applicable, heck, relevant to the needs of the country?

On a personal note, do more research on the situation on the local universities and suggest changes that are not so radical. Be mindful that there is a University and University Colleges Act that all local higher institutions have to adhere to. Maybe, the press will publish your letter then. It pays to have name recognition in Malaysia, which, sadly, you both don't. It pays also to have connection, i.e., know someone in the newspaper where you send your article in. That's how things function in the country.

Overall, I personally agree with the intention and much of the content of the letter, but, I doubt much will change in the university system of the country. Good luck, anyways.

[liverpoolfc]

Hey Misled,

The mamak food is what makes UM rank 89, 87, 88......who cares.....in the Times rankings.

Everything else of the U sucks but not the Mamak.

Go mamak!!!!!!!!!

[cquayhl]

Someone posted this on the SMF list:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/privu.htm

So how? Should we start collecting donations? :-P

OK. Shall reply to other posts in this space sometime in the next few days. Too many things to do now.

Charis.

"Third, there is too little emphasis on research. Local university
staff teach up to twenty in-class hours a week and do much of their own marking. This leaves little time to do research."

This is NOT TRUE. The Malaysian system is different than the US system in that there are no weekly homework assignments. There is only a midterm and a final examination and it is fine, in fact, better, if the marking were to be left to the Profs. Also, which university in Malaysia requires their Profs to teach 4 hours a day? 6 hours a week is considered a heavy load already. Please check fact.


We obtained the information from a local university staff. However,
I did an additional web research and found a couple of local university staff teaching record.

For instance, see
http://pkukmweb.ukm.my/%7Ejkas/webjkas/web/CV_kakitangan/CV(Dr.oak-bm).htm

This UKM engineering lecturer spends about 10 hours a week on teaching (about 2 classes) and in addition spends about 2-3 hours on undergrad supervision. That adds up to 12-13 hours/week of work devoted to teaching and supervising undergrads, not counting exam marking, preparation and other admin staff.


"Finally, recognition of talent is lacking. Almost all university
lecturers are guaranteed lifetime employment regardless of
performance. Furthermore, to our best of knowledge, job performance, namely performance in research and teaching, is often not the main criterion for promotions and for the awarding of research funding."

This is NOT TRUE. There is no tenure system in Malaysia and the Profs' contracts are renewed each year based on their performance.

I seriously doubt that most professors sign only a one-year contract. There are some temporary professors that do have contracts, but the majority of the staff are permanent.

The fact is that local university professors and lecturers are civil servants, and dismissing or demoting civil servants is virtually impossible (unless of course the person commits a criminal act).


"Running a world-class university is a costly venture, but it is
nonetheless worthy of a long-term national investment."

Is it more important than to increase the standard of living of the poor tobacco farmers in Kelantan, develop the rural inacessible areas of Sarawak and alleviate poverty in the country?


It's not an either or scenario. Improving the high-end competitiveness of the Malaysian R&D industry will generate more economic revenue for the country that will indirectly help the poor. Alleviating poverty is an important social issue, but solution doesn't lie in just giving more money directly to the rural folks.

One of the most successful ways of reducing poverty is to expand the middle-class and increase our GDP per capita. With the 21st century being a "knowledge" economy, countries with high-end R&D capabilities will be able to gain a bigger pie of the global economic share. Thus, investing in a world-class university actually does have an indirect effect of reducing poverty.

Someone posted this on the SMF list:

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/privu.htm

So how? Should we start collecting donations? :-P


Well, this shows the power of money!

There was an earlier post of whether MUST could be a world-class research university. At this moment, I'm doubtful because the initial funding is too little to run a university, let alone to set-up one. Also considering the limited funding available, I find it hard to accept that they paid MIT half their total budget.

http://web.mit.edu/mit-tdp/www/must_overview.html

Funding was provided to M.U.S.T. by the Ministry of Science and Technology for five years at 20 million Ringitts a year. Funding to MIT for its assistance to M.U.S.T. was provided by Motorola at 5 million U.S. dollars per year for five years.

[liverpoolfc]

This UKM engineering lecturer spends about 10 hours a week on teaching (about 2 classes) and in addition spends about 2-3 hours on undergrad supervision. That adds up to 12-13 hours/week of work devoted to teaching and supervising undergrads, not counting exam marking, preparation and other admin staff.

The Lab hours are not done by the lecturers. They are conducted by students (lab demonstrators).
Tutorials are not done by them too. They are tutors who are graduate students in the university.
As far as I can see, the Lecturer has 5 hours of teaching and 2 hours of consultation(office hours). 1.5 hours of project guidance for undergraduates is fine since I doubt he has many graduate students under him.
This is not much different from universities in UK or the US. Typically, around 3-5 hours of teaching, 1-2 hours for graduate students and 2-3 hours of office hours for consultation on classwork.
You cannot pinpoint local professors' lack of research on them being overworked, because they are definitely not. I know, for sure.

University Professors are civil servants in as much as TNB workers are civil servants. They are not like school teachers. They are put under a different scheme. I do believe they have contracts that are renewed, maybe not yearly. It works that way for professors too, never mind, temporary lecturers.
Read this link about Prof. Chandra Muzaffar's contract not being renewed:
http://www.aliran.com/ms990224.html
(That was what I meant about Prof kena gantung)

To make a good comparison, you have to understand how the local institutions function, the hierarchy, et. al. From what I gather from your reply, you didn't really do much research on the local front.

It would be great if you can reveal who your source that you asked, because it is very puzzling. Is he/she a university lecturer or a junior college teacher? There is a difference.

[el_empty]

University Professors are civil servants in as much as TNB workers are civil servants. They are not like school teachers. They are put under a different scheme. I do believe they have contracts that are renewed, maybe not yearly. It works that way for professors too, never mind, temporary lecturers.
Read this link about Prof. Chandra Muzaffar's contract not being renewed:
http://www.aliran.com/ms990224.html
(That was what I meant about Prof kena gantung)

i guess this raises the issue of a university's independence from the government. if there is one characteristic you want to pick out from major universities here in the states, it's the autonomy that they own, and i think they fight very hard to keep it. so this world class university of ours, perhaps institutional autonomy needs to be an imperative.

To make a good comparison, you have to understand how the local institutions function, the hierarchy, et. al. From what I gather from your reply, you didn't really do much research on the local front.

how local insts function today shouldn't be an issue. i think what prince and charis came up with appears to be a blueprint for a new ideology on how universities in malaysia can evolve.

does anyone know if there's a tax-exempt structure for private private donations to educational institutions? perhaps that's another approach towards funding.

[liverpoolfc]

how local insts function today shouldn't be an issue. i think what prince and charis came up with appears to be a blueprint for a new ideology on how universities in malaysia can evolve.

TRUE. I am just speaking on the POV that if you want your letter published, you have to get your facts right first.

[cquayhl]

OK. Finally a little 'free' time...in short bursts.

liverpoolfc,

el_empty said what I was thinking.

Our letter was not meant to be the last word on this issue. We are aware that we do not have a lot of the relevant information. The aim was to get people thinking about this and to provoke discussion. In any case, it doesn't matter that it wasn't published. Let's talk about this here. What is your positive vision for this university and how to go about setting it up?

<tangent>

Having said that, a bit about our sources of information. The information we were looking for was not readily available on the web or through any of the usual databases. (We are not social science people though, so it's possible we didn't look in the right places.) Given that, we had to rely a lot on anecdotal evidence from people teaching and studying in local public universities, who may or may have had accurate impressions of their institutions. Now moving on to the details:

The 20 in-class hours a week is from UiTM. If our sources are to be believed, many UiTM lecturers do this. I won't say 'all' and we don't have very concrete numbers for other universities. This is why we said 'up to'. The range seems to be 10-20.

About contracts. What I have heard is that expatriates have contracts of limited duration. Locals have a three year 'probation' period, after which they are 'confirmed'. I'm not sure what mechanisms the Civil Service has for sacking people, but I believe it's quite unusual for this to happen once you are confirmed. Of course, there are other ways of encouraging 'problematic' people to 'resign'. Thus I'm a bit surprised to hear that Chandra was on a contract, but not perhaps as surprised to hear about the way he was used and got rid of.

May I ask what your contact has been with the higher education system in Malaysia? We have tried to be transparent about our background and biases and I hope that others will do the same, so far as they are able.

</tangent>

About applying the US model to Malaysia, in the longer version of this letter we say that "While this system works well in the US, applying it to our universities immediately suggests many practical difficulties. We strongly urge the government to study hiring and funding practices at research powerhouses in Europe, the Commonwealth and Asia."

el_empty's question about seperation of university and government is a good one. Many top European and Asian universities are public institutions, e.g. ETH Zurich, TU Delft. Are there any people here who are postgrads in those countries who can speak to their universities' relationships with the government and how that helps or hinders the progress of research?

We'll have to look at many different models to come up with something that works for Malaysia. The US is probably as 'far out' as you can get compared to what we have now, but it's what we know, unfortunately.

misled_youth,

Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions about doing a doctorate in the sciences and I'll try to answer them some sort of semi-timely manner. :-P PhDs are no joke...not to embarked upon lightly...

digimushu and Shien Jin,

Hmm...that is not very enouraging re: MUST, eh? RM20 million a year seems about an order of magnitude too low, especially if half of it is going to MIT. :-(

honestly, i'd rather have professors in charge of independent labs in the university and getting the funding independently for their research, such as in VT. In the mechanical engineering dept alone, we have the labs specializing in smart materials, turbomachinery, combustion, fluid dynamics and vehicle dynamics. All the labs are controlled independently by directors who are also professors in the department. they goout and try to secure funding and if they do get it, a certain percentage goes to the dept and the university for use of university grounds for research. Pretty much it uses the idea of Adam Smith's 'invisible hand'. All the labs go out to get $$$ to survive in their different areas and end up bringing in more money for the dept.

How is this different from MUST? I should go and read the MUST thread...

Charis.

The Lab hours are not done by the lecturers. They are conducted by students (lab demonstrators).
Tutorials are not done by them too. They are tutors who are graduate students in the university.
...
You cannot pinpoint local professors' lack of research on them being overworked, because they are definitely not. I know, for sure.

Based on the CV presented, the UKM lecturer seems to indicate that some of labs and tutorials are conducted or supervised by himself. Otherwise, what would "total contact hours" mean in that context?

I've met a couple of local university lecturers and their message has been pretty consistent in that the teaching load is a burden on their not having additional time to do research. You might argue that a small sample is not representative, hence, we carefully qualified our statement to include "up to".

You mentioned that you "know, for sure" that the teaching load is not a factor in the lack of high-quality research produced. What is the basis of your judgement?


University Professors are civil servants in as much as TNB workers are civil servants. They are not like school teachers. They are put under a different scheme. I do believe they have contracts that are renewed, maybe not yearly. It works that way for professors too, never mind, temporary lecturers.

[Tangent] Fact check: TNB is a private company, traded in KLSE, and their employees are not employed by the government. Local university staff, however, are employed by the government.

[motong]

I have a friend who is a lecturer in FTSM (Fakulti Technologi dan Sains Maklumat), UKM. This semester, she is teaching two subjects and conducting tutorials for the subjects. In addition, she is also teaching a subject for part-time students.

[el_empty]

the only foreign govt-influenced university that i know of is nat'l university of singapore. despite the heavy-handedness, the government seems to be able to steer the university towards international success (whatever success means). not only do they influence funding for research, types of research, etc. singapore is also in the midst of creating it's biohub - i believe it's called Science Park, or something mundane like that (better than cyber something...). in short the sg govt coordinates their approach very well.

how sustainable and efficient such centralist approach is, i don't know. in singapore's case, a competent govt may eventually slide to a doggerel one, and if proper increase in autonomy (for the universities) doesn't take place, NUS in future might end up like USM or UM or UwhateverM. it's like having 2 dictators, one lee kuan yew, and one pol pot. even if LKY does his job well today, someday some pol-pot-wannabe might end up as PM. then sh*t hits the fan.

[cquayhl]

I have a friend who is a lecturer in FTSM (Fakulti Technologi dan Sains Maklumat), UKM. This semester, she is teaching two subjects and conducting tutorials for the subjects. In addition, she is also teaching a subject for part-time students.

Goodness! Sounds like the teaching schedule from hell, especially if the lecturer hasn't taught those particular subjects before...pardon my French. My sympathies to your friend...

Charis.

[el_empty]

here are some links for

1. those interested
2. those who are planning to defect to singapura
3. ministers and education officials and datuks who are going to wet their pants and then declare some wild initiative to outrun the singas that will cost several billion ringgit.

cheesy site (http://www.one-north.com/pages/lifeXchange/bio_intro.asp) - but it's singapore's answer to MSC and cyberwhatever. look at the map - sandwiched between united world college and NUS is my high school :P

genome institute of singapore (http://www.gis.nus.edu.sg/homepage/gisresearchprojectsfocus.jsp)
so they're splicing and ligating around with the genome too. research page.

institute of bioengine and nanotech (http://www.one-north.com/pages/lifeXchange/bio_intro.asp)
research page.

personal anecdotes: i was a research assistant in nanyang technological university during my high school break and my prof took me on a tour. we stopped by a biomimetics lab, and here they were developing a mechanical system that mimics the propulsion of an eel. what for? silent submarines, the dude said.

[liverpoolfc]

You mentioned that you "know, for sure" that the teaching load is not a factor in the lack of high-quality research produced. What is the basis of your judgement?


I graduated from one of the local institutions. I did research there for one of the Professors, which, I got very close to. I knew his schedule inside out because I was woking as an RA under him. I know how much teaching he has to do. He was quite productive, research-wise, but, I can't speak for the other faculty members on how they were utilising their time. I know they have lots of bereaucratic stuff like meetings and what-nots, but, they only teach like 1-2 hours a day.

About contracts. What I have heard is that expatriates have contracts of limited duration. Locals have a three year 'probation' period, after which they are 'confirmed'.

The person I worked with was indeed an expatriate, so, I cannot comment much. However, just to clarify, from what I hear when I was there, the locals too seem to be under contract. And if you read carefully, Chandra's contract was not renewed, he was not forced to resign. They cannot simply force a Professor to resign if he/she has been productive and has no criminal case againts him/her. And Chandra was at UM since the early 1980's, so, he was definitely not on probation.

And if I were to comment a bit on MUST, they were slightly disappointing regarding efforts in recruitment of students. Getting good Professors is one thing, but, they need good students too. MIT and Princeton and Caltech and Oxbridge will be nothing if they did not have brilliant young people wanting to go there. As far as I know, none of my friends were courted by MUST. NUS used to come every year to my university to try and offer scholarships to entice the best students to do their graduate studies there. MUST? MIA. Even, when I went there to talk to them, they didn't really seem interested to recruit me.

In addition, she is also teaching a subject for part-time students.

They are not compelled to conduct those. Normally, the junior staff have to do it, but, if you are senior enough, you don't need to do those. Yes, I admit, teaching in the evenings is a pain in the a****, but, they get compensated extra for those work.
After I left the university, my faculty stopped offering those evening classes because it was too much of a burden to the Professors.
I don't think the authors even know the existence of these evening classes.

ps-I spent 3 years of my life at a local university and have spoken to more than 1 or 2 lecturers. Trust me, when I say that 2 classes is the norm and you don't spend more than 6 hours of teaching time for these classes. Very few students will come for your office hours. Some Professors don't even bother to hold them. The professor is "supposed" to be in charge of one lab session a week, but he/she will 99% of the time not show up and leave it to the senior students' to conduct. Tutorials are done by Masters and phD students and they seldom have those. It is definitely not the norm to have tutorials. And if you were "lucky" enough to be in my university, your Professor will turn up to teach only 50% of the time. YES, they definitely have mucho mucho time to do research if they want to.

Fact check on fact check: The government does not organise its department according to which body is floated in the stock exchange and which body is not. It is arranged according to statutory bodies and non-statutory bodies. The university and TNB are both statutory bodies.
They are created based on statutes that provide for the creation of these. These bodies have their own organisations and have more freedom than government departments that are not required by law to be created. In Universities, the VC have a lot of power, much more so than the head of the department of education for Selangor. Theoretically, the VC only has to answer to the University Senate, which functions like the board of directors for any private company. The University Senate members are no doubt selected by the government and this is where the government control comes in.

I guess I must be boring you guys now, so, I will stop...... If you decide to return to Malaysia, pick up more knowledge before you come back to avoid a second culture shock.

[el_empty]

but if they don't attend class, it's also possible that they're nonchalant enough to slack out on their research, or not do any research at all...

my friend who goes to multimedia university (why does malaysia always come up with such original names?) told me that he regularly sees his profs (who're locals ) drive out early afternoon, and return later with loads of shopping bags and kueh mueh and rojak and plastic bags with "SALE" on them.

sigh...

[digimushu]

my friend who goes to multimedia university (why does malaysia always come up with such original names?) told me that he regularly sees his profs (who're locals ) drive out early afternoon, and return later with loads of shopping bags and kueh mueh and rojak and plastic bags with "SALE" on them.


lol....yeap, thats the 'tak apa' attitude alright...

[liverpoolfc]

dddddddddd

[digimushu]

Hrm...

Interesting...so if you were to give us your perspective, liverpoolfc, why is research so stagnant at the university level in M'sia? i'd like to hear your take on that. How come the research for most engineering disciplines in M'sia is always one step behind countries like US, Korea and Japan?

[el_empty]

one step only ? ...

http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/2004/11/dear_jeff_forgo.php

jeff ooi's guest blogger on proton

[digimushu]

Borrowing from the Proton thread...


...to own the core technology, a lot of money need to be spend on it first (Proton need to spend tones on R&D, they will not do that, because they cannot put R&D on the balance sheet when they reports their earning, meaning R&D will be stated as expenses) which mean less profit and more expenses for shareholders. (Who want to make the decision to spend so much on R&D especially when the company is not financially strong now). Money and profit are what drive the company on; nobody in Proton will want to risk his/her position on R&D at this time...


I think this is why not much revenue from companies back home is not going back to R&D as well. If everyone only thinks of surviving today and never challenging tomorrow, Malaysia will never ever catch up with any of the other countries. if our companies never see R&D as an investment..we wont ever reach the same level as the other countries. As our PM says in his talk in DC, no use having first class infrastructure and first class education system if our mentality is still that of a third world country.

Quote:
Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible - Doug Larson

What says you?

[jiinjoo]

wah I don't know where to chime in - too remote from the reality - like everyone said.

Last piece of news I heard 2 days ago was Intel's decision to build up their Cyberjaya R&D center by promising at least $100,000,00 per year into that center and they are aggresively hiring in the states for students to go back there, including lots of software positions.

Besides that, I read Charis and Shien Jin's article as vanilla arguments against a very hidden, non-transparent system that resulted in such a argument being carried out in this thread, having such varied anecdotal evidence. I guess I'll just add to the anecdotes.

I know 3 UM professors in Clarement College (LA) and one UPM professor in Stanford personally. These are amongst the more "successful" and "forward-looking" professors that we have and they are here to further imporve themselves before going back to serve the university.

I once had a long chat with Rahinah, who's getting her PhD soon and going to be back in UPM, about the state of UPM and her dept etc. My impression I got was that she's alone laboring, and it's not enough to have a one man (women) show there. Yes they have made contributions to the industry eventhough they might not be breakthroughs that are well publicized in the papers.

I asked about TAs, and ask her why it's possible to have a system like I enjoyed myself in CMU, where students teach the students, thus off-loading lots of pressure from the professors to the students, and the students learn better because TAs are more approachable and the materials they teach are fresh in their mind as they just learned it the previous semester or so.

The response was partly bureacracy, i.e. you can't hire them because there's not enough money to even pay a single RA to help out with research, what more a handful of TAs. Compared with the professor that I work with in CMU, he has a dozen PhD to feed and close to a dozen undergrad TAs in addition to that so that he can juggle all his courses and research at the same time (as well as being VP at akamai...) There's money going around to make it happen.

The other part of the answer is more about attitude, and I think this is the part that we can address the most, help our peers and change the country in our own small way. Students themselves don't see academics as something important that they should put in effort. How do you instill into the young minds the interesting things about the subject matter that they pursue? Well, let's put it this way, they don't even get to attend the classes they actually chose in the first place, so there's a certain barrier to interest a person whose passion is in EE about chemical gas etc.

Other anectodal evidence of mindset problems comes from my own classmates. My heart shatters when I learn that some of my very own "comrades"/classmates in high school, those who uphold the sanctity of knowledge and never stop fighting for a good cause, upon confronting their environment in UM, simply gave up their struggle and befriend the mediocre. All their attempts to correct the lecturer when he or she made a factual mistake in class was answered by scorn, if not disciplinary actions. This of course exclude the already well documented UCA incidents. And the worst of all in my own eyes are lecturers who co-op the legitimate time of their lectures for their own gains, for example, preaching their religion in a math class.

Need more anecdotes? I think we can certainly collect many more. If they were to be the basis of any fruitful actions, it needs to be overwhelming. Until we have useful metrics (including those that are already measured, such as salary et al) this thread will continue to be an interesting discussion, the end.

[chenchow]

Last piece of news I heard 2 days ago was Intel's decision to build up their Cyberjaya R&D center by promising at least $100,000,00 per year into that center and they are aggresively hiring in the states for students to go back there, including lots of software positions.


Jiin Joo, you mean $100K or $100M or $10M? If it is in the region of $100K, then it would be really meagre...

On the other note, it is really sad to read your post regarding what's happening back home. While it is something to cheer about when there are some who have gone beyond what's others have been doing, I would say that the main problem is that the attitude, be it students, faculties, governments, universities etc....

Frankly, I am wondering how serious is the situation about teachers scorning students for pointing out mistakes. Is it because of the way the students point it out? or because of the teachers' attitude? I remember there is such a discussion before in another thread on this, and frankly, I still strongly believe that these problems only plague a small percentage of teachers. To be frank, I used to point out teachers' mistakes in classes, and I haven't had any teachers who have taken any action at me ( i know some teachers are geram at me, but they want to ask students to response and I do what they wish students do...so i have been fine)

On students, I would say that a lot of students are taking courses based on what their seniors are taking. I know this has been happening in many unis back home, when I know that the seniors have gone through it, and shared their past-year papers, tips etc to the younger batches and they do like wise and hence increasing their chances to get As. In fact, this is happening even here at Cornell, esp among those Singaporeans. I would say that majority of Singaporeans would take whatever courses their seniors have been taking, where they have found out about which professors are giving easier As etc. In fact, I have discussed about this issue with some Singaporeans, but while some of them want to take other courses compared to what typical Singaporeans take, they say they don't want to take the risk..The tested routes are they take those courses, get A or A+, get a good grad school admission at Stanford and go there for Master, and build another village there...

I am not saying that because Singaporeans are doing so, hence it is alright for Malaysians to make these mistakes, but I would say that there is something wrong to the system down there...

[el_empty]

what can we do?

what else can we do?

[lyzzy]

My Dean tells us: Take risks. Not risks where you get drunk and go back to your room with some sketchy person, or get arrested by the police, or commit a violent crime. But take academic risks.

Well, chenchow, it's not only limited to Singaporeans. I think a lot of Asians in general (generalizing here!) tend to be more on the cautious side. Like say English. A lot of them take the easiest English courses, or completely avoid taking English at all because it's hard to get As. Even though they get higher scores than I in SATs and all that. And take subjects they know eg. Chemistry or Bio or something like that.

Not that I'm encouraging anyone to follow my footsteps! (I'm getting B's in my classes!)
________
Yamaha SDR 200 history (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_SDR_200)

[liverpoolfc]

Chen Chow, I think you make a lot of sense in your arguments about grades. But fact of life is that grades do count, what can you do? Esp. if you are undergrad and applying to grad schools.

Jiin Joo, a lot of professors in local institutions seem to have lost touch with student's concerns. If you want anecdotes, my friends and I can compile a whole wardrobe full. It is good that at least you know some professors that seem to want to make a change. Here's keeping my fingers crossed that something do change soon, although, in all likelihood, I pretty much doubt that it would.

[el_empty]

since the opposition's hapless in censuring the government for the archaic education policies, perhaps we need an NGO that would focus on improving standards and also review the policies that the gov makes. also to step up the pressure against the universities college act. AWAM and MAC, amongst others, have been around and they've been quite successful so far.

[masterof_none]

In addition to some all of our anecdotes, hypothesis and suggestions, I thing we should meet all professors all around the country themselves.

This is to avoids bias and danger from listening only from one perspective before making any generalization.

At least, we get to see the reality.

[chenchow]

lyzzy, I fully agree with you. This problem is not only limited to Singaporeans, but in fact, as you say, generalizing it, it is happening to Asians. I would like to clarify that I am not saying that every Asian or for that matter every Singaporean or every Malaysian is like this, but I would claim that a pretty high percentage of students are in those cases.

lyzzy, very nice to know that you are taking academic risk and exploring beyond what others have taken. Frankly, I have enjoyed a lot in my diverse education, where I get to try out courses in those fields that may be completely unknown to be before.

liverpoolfc, I would say that grades do count up to certain extent, but I would say that in application to grad schools or other aspects, grade is not the only thing matters most. While it is true that having higher grades would help in getting into good grad schools, a balance in seeing you taking greater work load, greater diversity in your learning or greater depth in your learning or seeking greater opportunities and exposures, those would help you in getting into your grad schools.

On professors at local institutions, may be before we point our fingers at them, we could ask ourselves, why such things are happening? Is it because of their very heavy workload, that they don't have sufficient time to care about the students? Is it because of the students' attitude? Do the students want to learn beyond the syllabus? I still remember that I have some teachers in high schools who teach beyond the syllabus, but very few students in this materialistic world do care about those teachers, and in fact, sadly enough, many students label those teachers as don't know how to teach, because they are teaching beyond the syllabus.

I am writing the above paragraph, not merely to defend the teachers/professors, but would like to invite everyone to ponder on this issue. What's exactly that goes wrong? I would really hope that ReComers who are currently studying in Malaysia, be it in IPTA or IPTS to share with us your genuine view point. To those who are currently abroad, reflect on what you have gone through and also try to ask for opinion among your friends back home.

As el_empty said, what can we do? It is essential that we make ourselves aware of such issues, and from there, lets try to take some efforts to help rectify this situation. To those who have been a tutor, either abroad or in Malaysia, do you think you have been very concerned about your students, or you teach to get some pocket money? I would be interested to hear from those who have been part-time teacher in high school after you have graduated too.

Another view point would be to hear from those who are currently in teachers' training college and these people would be those that would stand in the front line and they play a very important role in this aspect!

[el_empty]

do we have a watchdog NGO that monitors the government's activity in the educational sector?

[Liney]

USM: Kejayaan Masa Kini dan Cabaran Masa Depan


Persembahan dalam bentuk "Powerpoint" berjudul - USM: Kejayaan Masa Kini dan Cabaran Masa Depan.

The powerpoint presentation was presented by Yang Berbahagia Prof Dato Dzulkifli Abdul Razak, Vice Canselor of USM

URL Berkaitan : http://www.usm.my/pages/sudutnc/kejayaan.htm

[Liney]

USM Women Scientists to visit Antarctica
http://www.usm.net.my/modules/news/article.php?storyid=48

M'sia, First OIC Country Planning To Build Research Centre On Antarctica
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/state_news/news.php?id=64708&cat=nt

[Liney]

National Postgraduate Colloquium

NATIONAL POSTGRADUATE COLLOQUIUM: ROLE OF GRADUATE STUDIES IN THE SUSTAINABLE GROWTH OF RESEARCH
Timbalan Naib Canselor (Penyelidikan dan Pembangunan) USM, Dato? Prof. Muhamad Idiris Saleh akan merasmikan kolokium tersebut pada hari Rabu, 8 Disember 2004, jam 9.30 pagi di Gurney Resort Hotel and Residences, Pulau Pinang. Timbalan Ketua Setiausaha (Pembangunan), Kementerian Pengajian Tinggi Malaysia, Dr. Hj. Mohd. Nasir Mohd Ashraf akan menyampaikan ucaptama di majlis berkenaan.

Kolokium tersebut bertujuan membincangkan peranan siswazah masa kini ke arah pembangunan mutu penyelidikan agar lebih bersesuaian dengan kehendak negara di samping lebih kompetetif di peringkat dunia. Sebanyak 77 kertas kerja akan dibentangkan kepada lebih 100 peserta dari seluruh negara di sepanjang kolokium dua hari tersebut.

Untuk maklumat yang lebih lanjut bolehlah menghubungi Izam Fairus Kamaruddin (e-mail)
izam@<hidden>

[chenchow]

After reading about the Seoul International Invention Fair 2004, which is the largest invention fair in Asia, attracting 300 single inventions and innovations from 20 countries, and Malaysia has submitted a total of 36 inventions by University Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM), Universiti Teknologi Mara (UiTM), Universiti Teknologi Malaysia (UTM), Universiti Malaysia Sabah (UMS) dan Institut Penyelidikan Teknologi Nuklear Malaysia (MINT).

Eventually, UKM managed to do Malaysia by being the university that wins the most medals with 10 gold medals, 3 silver medals and 4 bronze. UiTM won 4 gold medals, whereas UTM won 1 gold medal.

It looks like there is a pretty good improvement for Malaysia in this aspect. Keep it up~!

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=1312
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2004&dt=1224&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Muka_Hadapan&pg=mh_09.htm

[chenchow]

On the issue of research university, Malaysia has just formed a joint programme with Imperial College, on having students doing PhD in Malaysia and getting Imperial College, as well as having some Imperial College would send its lecturers to Malaysia, and Malaysian students doing exchange there.

The Star (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/3/14/nation/10411040&sec=nation)

[N-Guy]

Producing a world class university requires something beyond than having world class professors.First and foremost,i would say the most fundamental thing required here is a drastic change in the mindset of bright,talented malaysia.Students,who are academically inclined should have a positive mindset on our country.One example is by having the proud feeling towards of country...based on a survey that i conducted in many premier school,many outstanding student who possess superior quality seem to just undergrade our university....for example,one question that i posed them was regarding our premier university,UM.Well,i asked them what did they feel when Um was ranked 89 th in the world..The answer....Huh,merely 89th??so what?Harvard is still the best!!....However this misconception should threaded positively....The ranking 89th might not sound superb.....But we,Malaysians having produced brilliant minds can change that....perhaps this should be threated as JUSt as the beginning

This is the most important thing that should considered to make Malaysia as a proud owner of world class universities