Malaysian Spaceport?

[weich]

Check this out:

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nastory.asp?file=/2004/11/25/nation/9485385&sec=nation

Hmm...I think they are trying to cheat us =)

[topdog]

heheh. thanks for the laugh.

[digimushu]

you have got to be kidding me....

[el_empty]

http://www.bristolspaceplanes.com/

here're the guys who're going to cheat us...

this is the most dubious site i've ever seen

[jiinjoo]

Actually hor.... why you say they are trying to cheat our perak sultan leh? are they gonna ask us to join in the investment or are they paying us money for the airport? I'm not clear whether it's gonna be a RM480000000 investment into the country or we have to fork out RM480000000 to take part...

Don't think a "spaceship" company necessarily have a good website :)

[weich]

no idea as well....but think about it:

The company has no concrete proof that they can actually build the spaceplane...they didn't win the X-prize....and they don't seem to have RM480 million...and was KLIA built from all the air carriers' money?

It would be different had Burt Rutan (founder of Scaled Composites, the company that made SpaceShipOne) or Space Adventures decide to build a spaceport in Malaysia =)

[el_empty]

bleh i meant the information on the site was very dubious. despite their $10 site there doesn't seem to be much information on it.

well as long as malaysia isn't forking out the $ i'm content.

[Europa]

Uh, I'm not sure that its Bristol Spaceplanes(BS) who revealed the negotiations that is underway. If that was the case, then CNN or its space news source for some of its articles, Space.com would have an article on this circulating long before the news was carried by The Star. At least our effort to put an 'angkasanaut' in space made CNN news the last time round, as its an official . Besides, their website did not make any mention of it. So, I'm concluding that it was a domestic source that disclosed it, for the sake of publicity, that we're 'invloved' in this multinational effort.

If I could remember correctly, the only South East Asian site to be seriously considered by any space tourism company was Singapore by Scaled Composites for their base. They eventually settled for Mojave Airport, where they launched the winning flights. We didn't even make it into the final list for consideration, so I don't know what enticed BS to come here and negotiate with the Perak State Govt.(maybe the speculation's true, that we'll be financial sponsors of the project)

Even if BS will be establish a presence here, the Perak site will only be operational sometime 2007, and that is only if the US site is established.

Besides that, there is no mention of flight tests, which indicate that the plan is still on the drawing boards. The tests can't be made secret, since their carrier plane is HUGE(my guess is its going to be a 747 sized plane) There's a lot of big ifs here, so even if we're going to pay, there's a lot of years ahead to protest that decision. :)

IMHO, this is just hype, with no concrete plans laid out yet.

Btw, talking about 'good' websites, check out http://www.scaled.com/ which is a more impressive websites in its content than BS's website.

[masterof_none]

I don't think there's a need to build a multimillion dollar spaceport.

to create a spaceport,all Malaysia need is to build its own working space shuttle and launch it in some airport. That airport would be declared spaceport. Just like here in Mojave. All Mojave has is Rutan's 25 Million dollar Space Ship One, and rather dull mojave airport, which is really right in the middle of the mojave desert.

First step, I think we need to enhance our space program, launch a couple of working space shuttle, and send people to orbit the space.

I would rather see Malaysian people learning how to build spacecraft from scratch. Doesn't matter whether we're the first Asian spaceport or not. As long as we learn, we can come up with technology.

Also, we're already shifting our focus multiple times. I still don't think our dream to be a multimedia hub has accomplished yet. Now we're start talking about biotechnology, nanotechnology, and now space port.

<offtopic>
However, I think government focus on agriculture is great. At least, we do have the potential of producing great agriculture products (sawit, rubber, etc). This policy, in my opinion, has a great substance and impact on the economy. Plus, I like plants.
</offtopic>

Nevertheless, the dream is great. But I don't think we need to invite people (from what? Bristol? ) to build the space port here in Malaysia.
I think what we need is to enhance our space program, just like what China did. apart from national pride, we also would learn a lot of things about space.

anyway, what does Bristol Spaceplanes has? Not even a working private spaceship (has the Ascender ascended yet?). So, we couldn't care less.

[chenchow]

This is somehow related, but not fully correlated.

SpaceX, (www.spacex.com) a company that is founded by Elon Musk (who also founded PayPal), would be a good place for Malaysians to learn from. I was amazed to hear from Elon Musk that Malaysia would be their first foreign customer, and that would include some transfer of technology to Malaysia when they launched a satellite for Malaysia.

As I am not a person who knows much about space, I hope that those who know more could share too~!

I agree with masterofnone view point that it does not matter whether we are first or last to build a spaceport or otherwise, but we should learn from the experience.

For instance, like Proton, despite all the negative points being said, today, Proton has contributed billions in tax payers' money and after those years, at least Malaysians are now able to build a car ourselves, with almost 100% of the spare parts, including the engine are built with a good percentage of local expertise.

[chenchow]

On this news, as Europa said, may be CNN does not mention it, but it is on BBC and it mentioned Malaysia.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/4005065.stm

It is on Space Tourism Blog (not sure how official this is though)
http://spacetourism.blogs.com/space_tourism_news/2004/11/bristol_spacepl.html

and on a few other sites too.

[kevinkhoo1986]

Hmmm...... I guess it was a rumour

[chenchow]

Hmmm...... I guess it was a rumour

If it is a rumour, why BBC is publishing it?

[chenchow]

It seems that there is a lot more energy in Space aspect for Malaysia, especially with the announcement that Florida Space Authority, SkyTruck, EastWest Aircraft and other companies are going to have a trade delegation in Malaysia next February and March in area like aerospace, IT, education, tourism and transportation.

This trade delegation is led by a former NASA Astronaut, Captain Winston Scott.

http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2004&dt=1127&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Ekonomi&pg=ek_01.htm

[digimushu]

I think we should learn to walk first before we can run...

in other words...design and build our own hypersonic/supersonic aircrafts before we aspire for space. AFAIK, Spaceshipone reached Mach 3 to achieve escape velocity. Remember..the second mouse to the trap always gets the cheese.

[topdog]

since we've already conquered the automotive and skyscraper industries the obvious next step is conquering space, right? right?http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jlng/misc/smilies/xxrotflmao.gif

[__earth]

I think we should learn to walk first before we can run...

in other words...design and build our own hypersonic/supersonic aircrafts before we aspire for space. AFAIK, Spaceshipone reached Mach 3 to achieve escape velocity. Remember..the second mouse to the trap always gets the cheese.

but the early birds get the worms!

similarly, one doesn't need the capability of making transistors to assemble computers - the marvel of free market.

[topdog]

will our spacecraft have airbags?

[digimushu]

I think we should learn to walk first before we can run...

in other words...design and build our own hypersonic/supersonic aircrafts before we aspire for space. AFAIK, Spaceshipone reached Mach 3 to achieve escape velocity. Remember..the second mouse to the trap always gets the cheese.

but the early birds get the worms!

similarly, one doesn't need the capability of making transistors to assemble computers - the marvel of free market.

-The early worm gets the bird!

Free market is one, but I prefer we know what we are doing first rather than just copying blindly(read: Proton) or depending very very heavily on foreign expertise(read: Twin Towers) - to jumpstart something.

[__earth]

-The early worm gets the bird!

now, that's just weird.

Don't you think this will encourage tech transfer?

What the Asian countries have learnt in the past is that, one doesn't have to start from the bottom to be successful. Maybe Proton is a bad example but one way or another, Proton does (or did?) encourage tech transfer from Japan and at some instances, from France and England.

anyway, it seems to be a private venture instead of a govt supported project.

[digimushu]

hrm.. tech transfer is good, but bear in mind, if you are a consumer....you will stay a consumer. Does it occur to you we don't own ANY core technology?

Think about it this way, Do any of our technicians know how to service the MIGs we bought from Russia(no i dont mean changing parts while reading manuals). I mean listening to the sound of the engine and at least roughly knowing the problem.

Aside from small propeller planes, what does our country know about hypersonic flight? jumping from super-sub-sonic prop planes to hypersonic flight is a pretty big jump. We are too scared to commit the money to R&D but we are ready to throw it at strangers that offer us a moment in the spotlight? Gimme a break!

Those who have taken class in turbomachinery, aerospace, and aeronautical engineering know that it takes a LOT of people to maintain a space program. What if we launch our first spacecraft and it flops?

If we make it, we get a few more "Dato's". Thats all, right? I'm not sure our society has reach the stage in which a space program can take off just like that.

[masterof_none]

I fully agree about technology transfer, in fact, despite of all criticism, I support the Proton project.

But the problem is that, we are quick to jump into the bandwagon of hypes.

In this case, I would rather Malaysia enhance its space program, like giving more funding to the Malaysian Space Agency, recruit as many researchers as we could, invite space researchers around the world to give talk to local researchers, inspire kids to learn science not only because they can get easy job, but they love what they are doing.

Most of us , Me for one, lived in the 99-2000 technology hype. The government quick to grab as much resources as possible, quick to jump into the IT hype, and some of us think that only Computer would give us good job.

But when the Biotechnology hype comes, we've shifted lots of resources to Biotech. and now, we have this incomplete version of multimedia hub, and not-well-recognized-yet IT institutes, etc.

Malaysia cannot forever chasing hypes. We still need to refine our auto industry, and engineering area. we also need to face reality. Technology transfer is good, but we surely want to learn something after the technology transfer in a certain area completes.

Anyways, I'm all for spaceship thing. It's always my dream to go to the moon. Plus, it's nice if we have the Malaysian version of NASA.

[digimushu]

As i say...crawl before you walk, run after you learn how to walk.

We never seem focused on anything, just random interests in various fields. Before long, we will all just be Jack of all trades and the master of none(no pun intended, Syamsul).

Why dont we just be good in ONE thing, just ONE thing that we can at least be proud of?

[__earth]

I do agree with what syamsul is saying. I even agree with what's brandon is saying.

But its not the govt that is runnning this. It's the private sector. It's not govt initiated. In fact, the firm approached the govt. If you deny this firm to do business, it gives out the wrong signal to the investors.

if they want to do this space tourism or anything, let them. If the govt refuses this firm a chance to operate, then it will go to some other place, say Indonesia since it's closer to the equator, and then we'll lose the edge. Not the mention, the money.

It's almost the same as if GM wanted to build a plant here. Would you deny GM just because we wouldn't get the core technology?

[phantom]

will our spacecraft have airbags?

well,in 2005 almost all our cars will have air bags.dont u think this spacecraft wont? dont u know about that?owh i forgot,u dont read utusan,bharian.

so that's explain ur ignorance.





I think we should learn to walk first before we can run...

yeas.but when the world is flying,we need to learn all of that fast.as fast as we could.america is already planning to put man on mars in 2016 and 2030.failing to compete will only lead to another american flag pole.

though it may sound like we are rushing,perhaps idiotic..we have to stop putting ourselves down. if e'malaysian is skeptical of our own capabilities, we wont achieve anything. there are plenty of smart m'sian who are majoring in this kind of field.even my major has something to do with this.pursuing this branch of science will create more pros than cons.

there's a difference between chasing hypes and realizing the reality.

bear in mind,the IT hypes vanished due to many factors,the breaking of IT bubbles can be easily one of the factor. the gov has worked hard to put our nation on the same pace as any other westernized countries. with vision 2020 short of 16 more years , i believe we have to keep changing our gear so that we wont be left out .

and it took USA 11 years to put a man in moon.

[topdog]

well,in 2005 almost all our cars will have air bags.dont u think this spacecraft wont? dont u know about that?owh i forgot,u dont read utusan,bharian.

so that's explain ur ignorance.

really? yippy!!! i guess my ignorant self should be so proud that our national cars will at last join the ranks of airbag-equipped cars, like my rusty 94 civic.

speaking of airbags, do spacecrafts really have airbags? serious question, not trying to be sarcastic. i'm counting on the recommers who are not so ignorant as me, and who read utusan/bharian, to help me here.

[digimushu]

Topdog,

Used to have 'airbags'...on the outside! *grin*

its a bag, filled with air..thats airbag right?

<img src=http://members.cox.net/klingdc/skylab11.jpg>



...
though it may sound like we are rushing,perhaps idiotic..we have to stop putting ourselves down. if e'malaysian is skeptical of our own capabilities, we wont achieve anything. there are plenty of smart m'sian who are majoring in this kind of field.even my major has something to do with this.pursuing this branch of science will create more pros than cons.
...


Good point, however, i'm not saying that we should stop pursuing space altogether. I'm merely suggesting that we take the concept of incrementalism.

I think that there is enough Malaysians in the world who are experts in aircraft design and turbomachinery. If we put them all together, we might be able to develop our own scramjet program, similiar to NASA:

http://www.nasa.gov/missions/research/x43-main.html

That way, our space program will be one that is by Malaysians, and for Malaysians. Rockets are dated and pretty much are useless, as shown by the heavy pricetag of shuttle launches. Incrementalism is the way, work on a simple concept first, and build upon it. Then, we will know the whole system inside out, as opposed to being confined to being a spectator of a system that was built by others.

its not a matter of pride, just that we should not just sit by and watch others do the work while we get the name, which is what we have been doing for the past 2 decades. For God's sake, we cant even handle the building of the Bakun dam ourselves.

they say discretion is the better part of valor, so before you go out and do something, think carefully first. What happens if we fail? do we have a plan B? do we have the money? I'm sure BS does not have the 480 million needed for the flight and plus, if you were to spend 480 millon to get a 10 million dollar prize, that shows how dumb the financial managers in your company is. Where do you think that cheddar is gonna come from?

i am an ardent supporter of moving ahead but i suggest we be a little bit more cautious about the partners we bring on the journey...

[digimushu]

...
yeas.but when the world is flying,we need to learn all of that fast.as fast as we could.america is already planning to put man on mars in 2016 and 2030.failing to compete will only lead to another american flag pole.
...


No pun intended but i believe we should never be sheep. Although emulation is the sincerest form of flattery, i dont believe we should jump off a cliff when the US or any other country does it. What we should do is work the best with what we have in our hands right now towards the best possible future, instead of chasing 'angan angan kosong'

orang tua tua says rolling stone gathers no moss. So we should stop rolling, gather some moss first, and the roll to the nearest biggest moss pile...figuratively speaking.

We should decide and plan our own direction with respect to the situation that our country is in.

[Europa]

Wow, I didn't expect this much of response for this topic! Looks like the 'giggle' factor doesn't apply here! Having an interest in this particular subject, I'll try to share as much as possible, but then I'm not very knowledgeable in this.

I agree with masterof_none. Furthermore, I prefer that the govt pull back its decision to fire off the first M'sian in 2007 and send people to Rosaviakosmos or Energia for training instead. We should take China for example. They did not spend hard cash for Russia to fire Colonel Yang Liwei off into space. They did it by technology transfer and having some of their best minds study the challenges of going into space. It took 40 years, but at least they can call it their OWN SUCCESS! In the proper spirit of Malaysia Boleh, we should have followed China's lead in becoming a spacefaring nation. We might take more than 40 years, but then when the time truly comes, we can all take pride in our nation's achievement. I'm very much afraid that our launch in 2007 may just turn our people off, since he/she's just going up just like a space tourist, not a proper astronaut! So what patriotic pride could we build up from that? And as for advancement in science, that reason is absurd since you can't do much experiments in 3-5 days!!!

Sorry for going off topic, but I strongly feel that this effort is largely useless.

chenchow, thx for the link by BBC. Guess that I was too dependent on CNN. :) But I must point out that in the article, there is no mention of any negotiations whatsoever, just identification of M'sia as a potential site. I won't go on with the Blog as the statements there would not be as credible as the ones by mainstream media sources. The report by BBC is probably in response to a public conference given by BS.

Quoting topdog, in saying our next endevour would be going into space, it is not that easy. Compared to building a car, a space vehicle will be much much complex, and complexity leads to more issues to iron out before we can even test launch. That translates to a lot of economic and human resources needed. Using the largest in their respective categories, China employs 300,000 space workers and NASA's budget is around USD 16 billion yearly. In terms of today's dollars, the United States spent in excess of 100 billion dollars to win the Moon race.

Furthermore, we do not have our own pioneers in the mould of von Braun, Goddard,Arthur C. Clarke or Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. Without such local figures, it is hard for M'sia to generate a lot of local interest. And the US and Russian programs are a source of national pride, hence the support from their citizens.

We would need, for starters, an increase in budget for NSA(our National Space Agency, M'sia's version of NACA I guess), more experts in this field, technology transfer from spacefaring nations, publicity from domestic sources(The Star has recently started adding info on recent space missions into its international news, which is good), and basic research relating to space technology, some of which was already mentioned by masterof_none. But I'd prefer for the research to focus on a new design other than the shuttle, since it has been proven to be expensive in cost and maintainance as well as not very safe. Maybe research to create our own class of rockets, then to a design concept like the VentureStar and then tourism vehicles, space stations, satellites and probes. See how much is needed? For that reason, it'll take years, if not decades for us to start moving in the favourable direction.

As for the Vision of Space Exploration laid out by President Bush for return to the Moon, to Mars and beyond, I doubt that it'll get off the ground so quickly. NASA's budget for the groundbreaking projects nearly got slashed by the Congress, due to the record deficit incurred by US. Besides, the plan laid out by Bush Sr. the Space Exploration Initiative, was dead before it even reached the Congress. The new plan made better progress, but without strong political will, any space initiative is likely bound for failure. I hope that VSE will be different, for the sake of expanding hummanity's footprint in our New Ocean.

Oh, the US took only '11 years' to get to the Moon due to the Cold War, in which their national pride was at stake. That explains why they gunned for the Moon for all they are worth.

As for scramjet research, I hink we should just stick to the incrementalism plan and start research by replicating the X-1 flight by NASA shall we? We're starting from scratch, so we'll have to do our homework first. Of course, if we could get Energia and Rosaviakosmos to help us out by providing us a Proton rocket and Soyuz capsules, our work can be greatly accelerated, just like what heppened to the Chinese.(I'm not saying the Chinese copied the Russians, but actually they learned a lot from studying their technology and applying what they've learned into their Shenzhou. That'y why the overall design of their capsule is so similar to the Russians.)

Oh, by the way having spacefaring capabilities can greatly increase a country's tecnological knowledge and expertise(like NASA in US), besides making avaliable a new source of income for the country(like Arianespace for France). Besides, a launchpad here makes launching rockets cheaper than the rates in Russia, for example.

[chenchow]

For the sending a local astronaut to space in 2007, I would say that it serves a few purposes.

It makes Malaysians talk about space, and get the younger generation to be interested on space, and in fact, some time back, UiTM student made a small rocket that fired up the sky for some 100m or something like that. While it is far from reaching the moon or mars, it is a step ahead. We need to create an awareness about space. Just compare a few years ago, do Malaysians talk about space? At least today, there is a rocket design competition for the students here.

I have tried to search a bit, and I have found that there are greater interest in space right now among Malaysians. Although this is still very far from reaching the space, it is a good first step.

Say this Space Design and Construction of Space Settlement Design. There are students from 6 countries participated, and one of those 6 is Malaysia, along side Japan, India, Austria, Romania and US.
http://www.belmont.k12.ca.us/ralston/programs/itech/spacecon.html

This is about a Marslink mission, where students from St. Xavier Institution is involved.
http://www.space-explorers.com/internal/communications/clarkson2003.html

[digimushu]

...
As for scramjet research, I hink we should just stick to the incrementalism plan and start research by replicating the X-1 flight by NASA shall we? We're starting from scratch, so we'll have to do our homework first. Of course, if we could get Energia and Rosaviakosmos to help us out by providing us a Proton rocket and Soyuz capsules, our work can be greatly accelerated, just like what heppened to the Chinese.(I'm not saying the Chinese copied the Russians, but actually they learned a lot from studying their technology and applying what they've learned into their Shenzhou. That'y why the overall design of their capsule is so similar to the Russians.)
...


As I have said, rockets are dated and not very economical. I prefer we bring Malaysian experts in aerospace and aeronautical design back to develop our own system. The basic principles neede for the research in this area is readily available to everyone in textbooks, things such as pressure vessels, thin wall theory, thick wall theory and the principles of combustion are out there. All we need is must a government which is commited to research and a steady flow of graduate students into the program(slave labor...*grin*).

Malaysian research culture is not even close to the chinese research culture. They can reproduce anything perfectly and still refine it further. OTOH, when we get something from someone else and it works perfectly, we tend to just repackage it and slap a M'sian label on it. In other words, we are too complacent.

Anyways..talk about simplicity...



Supersonic combustion ramjets - or scramjets - promise more airplane-like operations for increased affordability, flexibility and safety for ultra high-speed flights within the atmosphere and for the first stage to Earth orbit. The scramjet advantage is that, once they are accelerated to about Mach 4 (four times the speed of sound) by a conventional jet airplane engine, it is believed that they can be flown in the atmosphere up to about Mach 15 without having to carry heavy oxygen tanks as rockets must. Also, rockets tend to produce full thrust or nearly full thrust all the time; scramjets can be throttled back and flown more like an airplane.


keyword: Flexibility

Combination of this and thrust vectoring technology will bring us a lot closer to cutting edge.

[el_empty]

did you say proton rocket??

[Europa]

Well, that is undeniably true chenchow, but could that justify Rm 1 billion spent just to have M'sians talking about the subject? Well, if 1 billion is spent for rudimentary rocket research (e.g. M'sia launches sounding rocket) like what Sweeden did recently, it could gradually build the same amount of hype. Or maybe M'sia could sign up to obtain observer status from the ESA. Or maybe try to attract some launcher company to build a launchpad here (it is plausible due to our strategic location near the Equator) I'm not saying that the project is totally useless, but then it is not a long term strategic move compared to other alternative projects that we could've done.

Rockets are not economical, but they have served as the workhorse for the past 50 years, so it would be wise to devote some effort to have some rocket experience before diverging into advanced concpts, such as scramjet. Even the X-43 project is boosted to its operational velocity by a Pegasus booster, which is a rocket. SS1 also employs a nitrous oxide rocket to get into space. So it is still firmly set as a primary system to get into space for some time to come. But of course, there are some better alternatives such as the space elevator or anti gravity, which are more advanced than the rocket concept. But yes, our research culture may pose a huge obstacle to this whole enterprise.

did you say proton rocket??
Yes, I did say Proton Rocket. I was referring to a class of launchers developed by Russia. First launched in 1965, the lastest version in service is the Proton-M. FYI, it is one of the most reliable class of rockets in sevice today.

[weich]

hmm....scramjet's really quite high tech....most of the technology associated with it is still under research isn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong...although the basic principles are out there, certain areas of aerodynamics still use lotsa emprical figures esp. in turbulence, where certain equations are formed based on emprical data and there are still lots we do not know yet or predict, and thus, major aeronautical firms hold on very tightly to these data....and that's the hard part to crack since it's mainly based on experiece?

what i was thinking we should do is more like the "taiwan" model of how they slowly gained a big share of the IT market by first manufacturing for major firms, and then slowly learn from them & develop their own products....and since most aerospace firms still keep their manufacturing facilities back in their home country...it is very possible for M'sia to convince them to "outsource" & build their plants in M'sia instead!

[el_empty]

Yes, I did say Proton Rocket

oh i thought you meant one manufactured by EON (as in edaran otomobil bolehland...)

It makes Malaysians talk about space

i think it will be more fruitful to use have the universities and r&d sectors to generate quality research. then let the local (and international?) papers pick up the stories independently, instead of forcing them to publish minister-said-rhetoric.

"taiwan" model

taiwan model is a good temporary measure. malaysia has been adopting this model for other sectors and that is why our manufacturing sector is such a bomb. however it also breeds complacency since we don't really have to work very hard to bring in some cash.

what we need is a balance of both - both reverse engineering, as central to the taiwan model, and our own research in niche areas. simple example would be singapore's CreativeLabs - started by making copies, but later carving out their niche. now they're a major player.

[Europa]

Well, one thing for sure is we can't name our rockets Proton anymore. ;) We'll have to find another name for it. Maybe a naming contest in the future? Hehe.

Hmm, quality research from our Unis, we'll definitely need a lot of budgeting and manpower issures to resolve befre we even have some results churned out.

what we need is a balance of both - both reverse engineering, as central to the taiwan model, and our own research in niche areas. simple example would be singapore's CreativeLabs - started by making copies, but later carving out their niche. now they're a major player.

Ingenuity, innovation and creativity. That's the key.

hmm....scramjet's really quite high tech....most of the technology associated with it is still under research isn't it?
I'm afraid so. In fact, one of the X-43 flight have to be destroyed due to aerodynamic instabilities. Later on it is found that the modelling parameters was slightly inaccurate, causing the platform to vibrate as it approaches cruising speed. So hypersonic flight research is a very difficult realm, requiring supercomputers for modelling the exact shape required to compress the atmosphere before chanelling it into the combustion chamber and tons of cash to aquire and research those composite materials needed.

Back to the initial subject, given our tendency to award Datukships to 'outstanding' individuals, do you think we'll have the first Datuk in space in 2007?

Who do you think will be the first to be selected? Usually the first will be selected from the respective nation's elite cadre of pilots but is M'sia trying to break the trend?

[el_empty]

doesnt it depend on what the dude is going to do in space? send a scientist if he's going to conduct experiments. send a pilot if he's going to fly around. send an engineer if he's going to fix something.

but for pete's sake, if he (or she, excuse me) is just going to fly up and wave a malaysian flag, we might as well send an orang utan. how symbolic is that?

[digimushu]

Hrmm....

We might have those animal rights people bugging us because of that...

[el_empty]

but we're giving the animal an equal employment opportunity. they should be supportive instead no? :lol:

[Europa]

There's nothing wrong with that, after all their relatives, the chimps were official test pilots for the US program and the dogs paved the way for the Ruskies. But orang utan for a first M'sian? 8O

[topdog]

heh. send an orang utan to space, then give him a datukship.

[digimushu]

Maybe make him a Tan Sri, even better, since space is 'virgin' territory for Malaysians...

[el_empty]

Maybe make him a Tan Sri, even better, since space is 'virgin' territory for Malaysians...

ah then the orang utan would "penetrate" (pun could not be avoided... :oops: ) the echelons of high society.

[topdog]

"score" one for the nation!

[masterof_none]

hm, we're way out of topic now.
I think we can move the orang-utan-turn-Tan-Sri to Engineering Jokes thread :
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=31902#31902

Let's get back to Malaysian Spaceport.

[digimushu]

Yea, I suppose we should...

however, I stand by my choice of using turbomachinery system or hybrid turbomachinery/rocket with more spotlight on jet technology as a propulsion system, as opposed to a rocket-based system.

This is because we can use the knowledge and expertise from developing the jet system to design and create our own jets. Thus, its like killing 2 birds with one stone. This fact, aside from the fact that the system is more controllable(thrust vectoring) makes jet technology the obvious choice.

besides...nothing beats the sound of sonic boom from an F-14 flying above you...

[el_empty]

wait, who? malaysia?

so far, proton's most advanced achievement is a campro... itupun regular gas-guzzling engine.

[topdog]

here is my vision of the spacecraft that will propel malaysia towards the the frontiers of outer space.

http://www.engin.umich.edu/~jlng/misc/protonrocket.jpg

[DecentMerson]

nice design.... it that a fly swatter on top of the Spaceship??? maybe it can swat some incoming asteroids...

no way man... with the money and the technology we have... it is impossible to do anything...

[__earth]

Malaysia should go for the space elevator :twisted:

[topdog]

you mean like this one? :D

http://www.engin.umich.edu/~jlng/misc/elevator.jpg

[Europa]

Hey, mana tahu the asteroid 'swats' our fly swatter pulak! :roll:
Huh, paid in M'sia huh? That may very well turn out to be true.

I stand by my choice of using turbomachinery system or hybrid turbomachinery/rocket with more spotlight on jet technology as a propulsion system, as opposed to a rocket-based system.
That's fine by me, since it is a more efficient way to get up. But you seem to sound more interested in its military application. I'm not sure if our RMAF could service the crafts properly when they own it, unlike our MiG-29 fleet.

Malaysia should go for the space elevator
Wait a long time, since we have absolutely no expertise in any field that is involved in its construction, except maybe in the construction of its base, which is basically a refurbished oil platform.

[weich]

however, I stand by my choice of using turbomachinery system or hybrid turbomachinery/rocket with more spotlight on jet technology as a propulsion system, as opposed to a rocket-based system.

hmm....what about a big balloon to the troposphere, and then fire ramjet engines...more do-able i think?

and the space elevator is quite a good idea...except that we need very strong cables - carbon nanotubes? Again, another thing that we have no experience at all!

[digimushu]

I stand by my choice of using turbomachinery system or hybrid turbomachinery/rocket with more spotlight on jet technology as a propulsion system, as opposed to a rocket-based system.
That's fine by me, since it is a more efficient way to get up. But you seem to sound more interested in its military application. I'm not sure if our RMAF could service the crafts properly when they own it, unlike our MiG-29 fleet.



Well, if we do end up making military aircraft...why not? It surely would be cheaper than buying them all the time. Plus, we will have complete knowledge of the systems in working. Think of it this way...would it be easier to do aftersales service if the company that makes our aircraft if in M'sia? Dont you think it is high time we started an aerospace/aeronautical industry? or are we shifting focus too fast again? However, the way things are looking, our aspirations for the stars look like its a lil bit far off our reach....

[Europa]

hmm....what about a big balloon to the troposphere, and then fire ramjet engines...more do-able i think?

Uh, that concept is very similar to the Da Vinci Canadian X-Prize group's one. But they're topping it off with a rocket.

Problem arises when you want to increase the size of the ramjet vehicle, plus it's not feasible if you're planning to go to space, isn't it? After all its still an air-breathing engine.

Again, building ramjet/scramjets is not easy. I don't think we can create the reinforced carbon carbon(RCC) tiles that can withstand the in-flight temperatures in excess of 1500 deg. C yet.

Well, if we do end up making military aircraft...why not? It surely would be cheaper than buying them all the time. Plus, we will have complete knowledge of the systems in working. Think of it this way...would it be easier to do aftersales service if the company that makes our aircraft if in M'sia? Dont you think it is high time we started an aerospace/aeronautical industry? or are we shifting focus too fast again? However, the way things are looking, our aspirations for the stars look like its a lil bit far off our reach....
So that brings us back to square one, that is could we mount a project of that magnitude? After all, its not that any country can suddenly build a 3rd generation fighter from scratch, even if money and expert workers is not a problem! We're still in the microlight craft stage, with the fabrication process method sourced from overseas, so we're very very very far off from our desired end product.

[el_empty]

maybe malaysia should consider a different niche instead, like deep-sea crafts

[digimushu]

So that brings us back to square one, that is could we mount a project of that magnitude? After all, its not that any country can suddenly build a 3rd generation fighter from scratch, even if money and expert workers is not a problem! We're still in the microlight craft stage, with the fabrication process method sourced from overseas, so we're very very very far off from our desired end product.



I've known Malaysians whose masters and PhD thesis are based on stuff like design of lightweight high-strength composite sandwiches and optimization of ramjet designs. I'm not saying that we can just jump directly into it but at least we know there are malaysians who have done lots of research in that area. Where there is a will, there is a way. It all depends whether they have anything to go back for anyways.

There is even a Malaysian prof in my undergraduate university that was an expert in carbon nanotubes. However, we can all see that the reason non of our programs are working is not because we dont have experts in that area. Just that whether the experts want to go back and face the obsolete research culture back home.

Its not that these people dont exist, just that their research, since it is not focused by the government, is not in the spotlight.

[DecentMerson]

maybe malaysia should consider a different niche instead, like deep-sea crafts

it is great to have the Malaysia Boleh spirit... but, i dun think it is worth the money to do all these irrelevant stuff...

maybe some may say that it is for the sake of development certain science fields or anything... but, i do think that those money can be better off if spent more wisely...

developing a better car engine sounds more plausible...

space station, deep-sea crafts... even Dato Azhar around the world with his boat is a waste of time, effort and money...

[masterof_none]

maybe malaysia should consider a different niche instead, like deep-sea crafts

<offtopic>
How about low-cost subs that could cross from West to East Malaysia.?
</offtopic>

[digimushu]

<off-topic>
Try easy stuff first...

A canal that cut through northern peninsular M'sia...

</off-topic>

[chenchow]

Read about this First Asia Regional Space Settlement Design Competition For Students, and for Asian region, out of 500 teams in Asia competing, 8 teams make the selection to the Asia Grand Final, with 6 teams from India, 1 team from Pakistan and 1 from Malaysia. Looks like Malaysia is improving a lot in this aspect.

1 of those 8 teams would go to Kennedy Space Center, Florida, US, in June next year to participate in the finals. This event is organized and sponsored by NASA, Boeing and American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics.

The competition involves the following stuff:-
"The event is an industry simulation, set in the future, for students of high schools aged 14-18 years. It emulates as closely as possible the experience of an aerospace industry proposal.

Participating teams are required to prepare designs for cities in space, known as space settlements or space colonies, where over 10,000 people would live. The competition demands not just technical competence but also creativity, management skills, environmental knowledge, teamwork and presentation skills."

http://news.newkerala.com/india-news/?action=fullnews&id=49220

[topdog]

poorly written article. says there are 6 teams from india, 1 from pakistan, and 1 from malaysia. then mentions an "indo-malaysian" team. huh?

[el_empty]

i really like how the big hullaballoo on a spaceport in perak just left the media scene. so what's going on?

[topdog]

i heard someone "up there" forgot that a spaceport is supposed to serve as a launchpad for spaceships, and inadvertently launched the spaceport into outer space instead.

[masterof_none]

Let me offer a slightly different perspective :

The idea of spaceport really for tourism stuff. If you have a spaceport in Malaysia, it's really turns out to be one of thsoe 'pusat peranginan', with hotels for tourists, etc. I don't think it's meant to be a research lab or anything. It's just another port for the guys to grab tourists.

Consider a scenario of Mojave Airport being the spaceport. :

A tourist comes to Los Angeles, spends a night in Los Angeles in some hotel room somewhere in Santa Monica. He then travels to Mojave to have some practices/exercises for the flight. After an intense one day training, he then goes back to his hotel, and maybe goes shopping at night. And then, takes the flight up to the outer space, comes down, heads to Palm Spring before heads back to LAX.

All these translates into tourism income.

Tourism Tourism Tourism.

[el_empty]

can they just launch spaceships from klia?

[chenchow]

I had the same wonder as topdog on "Indo-Malaysian" too, and I try google news and find that a number of news from India, including the FTA is said to improve Indo-Malaysian ties. Anyone could comment on that? I am blurred.

[el_empty]

http://media.skoopy.com/pics/pic_02449.jpg

haha malaysia's gonna launch this from the spaceport

[el_empty]

this is so strange and HUGELY irrelevant. but i just had to post this up (and it's fr the same site as the wira thing)

http://media.skoopy.com/pics/pic_02314.jpg

[Europa]

Hey, the Wira's spoiler is upside down! :lol:

[digimushu]

Hrm...

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/1/10/nation/13070260&sec=nation

The race to become the first Malaysian astronaut is picking up, with only 27 candidates left fighting to be sent to space.

I'm surprised they are going through with this. What happens if an independently funded M'sian beat them to the chase?

[el_empty]

cannot lose ! everything also must win!

http://www.spaceportsingapore.com/index.html

http://www.spaceportsingapore.com/img/homecontent.gif

[bp_ffei]

cannot lose ! everything also must win!

http://www.spaceportsingapore.com/index.html



Haha... Hasn't been approved yet... So dunno what the outcome will be like. But in Singapore, usually when they have something in mind they wanna do... they follow through and do it (once it's been approved of course).