Konvensyen Perdana (Input From Younger Generation) [Archive]

chenchow

06-12-2004, 06:50 AM

blackmagic, thanks for the information.

Hopefully that 4 of you could help lead the discussion in this thread, to get meaningful outcome that would be useful for the forum. Zarina and Faisal, mind bring Kama and Nadiah here for discussions too!

Perhaps, we could all think of what issue would be ideal.

I would say that one of the crucial issue would be on R&D, especially R&D in universities, in terms of funding, prospectives, technical supports etc.

Another crucial issue would be on the learning culture, which I think we need to think of how we could transform Malaysians from learning only what is required, where students, be it in primary, secondary or tertiary education only cares about what is tested.

Another issue would be on Malaysian culture, where I think people's attitude should be transformed on many cases, like littering, not taking care of public property etc. I think it is easy to establish that we need to change this and that, but the question is how.

Lets intensify this discussion!

blackmagic

06-12-2004, 06:58 AM

i'll see if i can get nadiah into this, but we're both very busy currently - i've got a whole slew of finals beginning monday and nadiah has exams too.

she is going to talk about research.

i wanted to talk about civic consciousness too, but you're right, the problem is how to create it.

topdog

06-12-2004, 07:08 AM

just curious, what's the poll got to do with the subject of this thread?

el_empty

06-12-2004, 07:11 AM

http://www.btn.gov.my/default.asp

Pengumuman

Seminar Kebangsaan Pendidikan dan Perkhidmatan Pengembangan
12 hingga 13 Disember 2004 di Panggung Percubaan

jiinjoo

06-12-2004, 07:39 AM

The music quality is debatable.

I hope someone can bring up the issue of the Soh Sook Hwa, which is very recent and fresh on many people's minds. Our generation didn't live through May 13 and do not have the fear of speaking one's mind or aligning one's interest in accordance to politcal parties. The breed of apathy is obnoxious and definitely the wrong direction.

There's also insufficient push for students in the schools locally to participate in the country's future. Having 4 students who studied in a school so remote from the realities of Malaysia decide how the government should align their direction is not only missing the point, it's telling the local students that they aren't as important as those studying overseas (or am I mistaken in the forum composition?)

masterof_none

06-12-2004, 07:57 AM

Thanks Faisal. Welcome back to ReCom.

The prime motivation of establishing ReCom 1 year ago really came from this question . what's going to happen in the next 16 years.
(this is the first 'vision' here:
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=About&filename=tour&go=6#tournav

and another :(simplified).
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=About&filename=visions

So, we figured that what's going to be Next, must be done now, so that we can see the result in the future. Thus, begin a series of mass emails and ReCom is established. We've been forumming since then.

I'll come back to this thread, since I've got bunch of stuff to do at this end of semester weeks. But here's a couple of points that I would like to put forth:

General
1. What's inside the 'Malaysia Today'
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=5
, are really the issues revolving Malaysian Society that needs to be tackled once for all, to create the so called 'Bangsa Malaysia' .

Education
2. What's inside the 'Education',
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=17
are the issues that arise from our education system. Hundreds of issues has been discussed,from the implementation of SPM to the the quality of our education system in general.

Window to the World
3. What's inside the 'WIndow to the World'
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=12
are really what we can learn from other advance countries, in terms of political,social , as well as economical. all the stuff, for example, to what extent our implementation of democracy has been successful, to the internal politics of our neighbor singapore.

SIG & creative corner
4. What's inside SIG
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=SIG
& Creative corner
http://recom.org/modules.php?name=creative2

are the things that we can do, if we come together. this is to encourage our own creation, to spur the invention and coorperation among members. The implementation is short in many ways, but we learn a great deal in running it.

From ideas <-> discussions< -> cooperation <->action.

I think that's what we need. and we need to run this in parallel.

I'll be back with great more discussions and hopefully we just don't throw some TO DO list, but rather, concise, point forms, complete with the implementations. (or the Press Release style that we did last time also good). Hope we can contribute something.

Thanks.

jiinjoo

06-12-2004, 08:01 AM

Ah, done with my spamming. Back to the forum - it's unclear to me how wide the ears of the CEOs and the Politicians are going to be. Is there any attempt to broadcast this event over the Internet for the benefit of everyone who can't make it? Who's organizating this btw?

I'll try to chime in about civic consciousness. Here's a typical issue: road safety.

The reason why our roads aren't safe despite all the money and technology is because we continue to have reckless drivers. However, note the use of that word reckless. There are people who drive really fast on the road but follow all the rules and always think of other drivers's safety. But there are some who can't do the minimal of knowing which is the fast and the slow lane, to slow down when approaching a crowrded spot on the road / cars stopping by the side, giving way, etc. Driving is not a police-spotting exercise. These drivers aren't thinking, because once they get the whole picture straight, that certain actions are endangering not only themselves, but others. Perhaps the National Service program should help instill good driving haits instead?

Other typical problems that indicate the lack of civic-minded people - throwing garbage at the sign post that says "denda RM500", pushing their car horns in the hospital parking lot, not stopping for pedestrians at zebra crossings, leaving public toilets dirty, etc. It's not that these people lack common sense, it's the common sense that's wrongly constructed. There needs to be some form of education given to children (instead of memorizing 80 nilai-nilai moral) so that they form the right common sense since young.

We often talk about patriotism, democracy, 1st world country etc. There's something missing in the picture, which is the existence of shared-values and a sense of a comminity, something the pioneers of this forum try so hard to construct and preserve. I think having shared values in a society is the corner stone of having a successful democracy, because everyone's going to vote for the greater good.

How would we restore the civic responsibility that has fallen victim to the growing individualistic society? My answer is National Service, or civic education. For reference as usual, S'poreans go through 1 hour of civic education every week for 12 years of their education, but whether that's just plain propaganda, or actually teaching one to think for others is another story.

What else are we going to be dicsussing?

jiinjoo

06-12-2004, 08:03 AM

just curious, what's the poll got to do with the subject of this thread?
Faisal can probably answer to that, but I think he's also trying to construct other surveys so that he can present some interesting observations over the forum. Maybe you have some other ideas?

faisalluqman

06-12-2004, 09:39 AM

The original plan was to determine the precentage of scholars whose parents have college level education (not just overseas college level). I have a feeling that a good portion of students have parents who have college level education. The reason I'm pursuing this is because I'm concerned that students, especially in the rural areas (whose parents mostly likely do not have higher education) are under represented and will continue to be left behind if no steps are taken to educate them on the importance of education.

Faisal

chenchow

06-12-2004, 10:40 AM

There's also insufficient push for students in the schools locally to participate in the country's future. Having 4 students who studied in a school so remote from the realities of Malaysia decide how the government should align their direction is not only missing the point, it's telling the local students that they aren't as important as those studying overseas (or am I mistaken in the forum composition?)

I am not sure about the actual going on, but I think what happens is that 4 of them would represent Malaysian students studying abroad, and there would be other representations from local universities to speak from the view point of Malaysian students in IPTA and IPTS.

blackmagic

06-12-2004, 10:59 AM

that is also my understanding, chenchow

digimushu

06-12-2004, 11:00 AM

i wonder...

Can the purpose of the UUCA be questioned there?

Hrmm..nvm, just wondering....

06-12-2004, 11:53 AM

i wonder...

Can the purpose of the UUCA be questioned there?

Hrmm..nvm, just wondering....

somehow i feel that questioning existing laws wouldn't be the best use of the forum time.

i think we should look ahead, look at the bigger picture of things, and not focus on hairy legal issues.

i like the idea of developing "shared values."

chenchow

06-12-2004, 12:17 PM

I would like to share upon further on the issue of civic-consciousness, where I agree with what Jiin Joo has said and I would like to elaborate further.

I would think that the main change that could be done would be done through gradual awareness, where we gradually build on an awareness within the population. I would say that it would more be an action-oriented, rather than word-oriented. I am pretty sure that Malaysians know that we shouldn't throw rubbish everywhere, but what we need would be that say we lead by example, say if we see a can of empty can of soft drink lie on the road side and we go ahead and pick it up and a few other people see it, would that make a change?

Another change would be done through the education of the youth and get this generation of people to change through their family members. Almost every family, whether nucleus family or extended family would have at least some school-going kids or grandchildren, so it would be a great way to effect changes. I would say that we need to instill among the youth or kids on why we need to protect our environment. Try to bring them on a field trip, say to nearby park, and we can portray to them some scenario that say the teacher started to pick up a few pieces of rubbish on the park and tell the students that if the park is clean, it would look much nicer, and perhaps, and in fact with high probability, the students would help clean up at least an area of it, and gradually build up an awareness of it.

A lot of these changes would take time. Another one would be to imagine how much difference we would have brought upon the society if the readers of this post, try to smile to 5 more people per day, or at least treat at least 5 people nicer each day. Imagine the ripple effects and amount of people that we could affect each other directly or indirectly. Sometimes a genuine smile and care could transform others' life and it does not take much from us to do that.

I would delve on another issue. It would be transportation issue. While this is difficult to replicate, but I would depict a situation of public transportation in Ithaca here. I could know for almost exact that the bus is going to be there for sure (more than 98% of time), it would be at a stop within + or - 2 minutes. If we could institute this in Malaysia, imagine how much productivity could we improve, where people do not need to waste tons of time waiting in the hot sun. Imagine the number of people would feel that the public transportation is much more reliable and start to keep their cars in their garage more often and take public transport. This would translate to much fewer cars, and hence, less traffic jams for other road users, as well as less exhaust fumes on the environment. In a way, it also helps to reduce the amount government needs to spend on petrol subsidy, since less petrol is used, as well as the amount the people pay to take public transportation would help revamp the public transportation. This process would require significant cooperation from the public, as well as the operators of the public transportation.

Another issue would be on social giving back, especially among the corporate people in Malaysia. There are quite a number of successful corporate figures, as well as companies in Malaysia, which have earned a large amount of profit each year. Hence, if all or a majority of those companies could channel a few % , even 1% of their profit back to the community, that would be able to transform the life of hundreds of thousands of Malaysians. If we could get every Malaysian to donate 1% , even 0.1% of their salary each month, that could bring upon huge changes to those in needs. And often the social give back does not necessarily involve money, but we could give back in terms of time. Say, we could help to take care of the orphan in the orphanage. For those successful people, perhaps what they could do would be to give back to their alma mater or the educational institution around the area the companies earn some profit. Say, those CEOs of companies, could sponsor a public lecture session, where the CEO rent an hour or two from a school in using its school hall, and give a talk on certain topic of expertise to motivate the younger generation to learn a certain aspect of skills.

All these would go a long way and I really hope fellow ReComers and visitors could share more on this issue.

digimushu

06-12-2004, 12:21 PM

Perhaps so...

I agree that R&D spending is an issue for M'sia.

Perhaps we should wonder which sector does the government intend to boost up up till 2020 and why?

chenchow

06-12-2004, 12:34 PM

jiinjoo

06-12-2004, 12:35 PM

Ah good good. Do you know who are the local representatives? Is there a way to get in touch with everybody before the forum? Would love to have more discussions amongst the younger participants so that the voice is clear and heard.

About UUCA, instead of questioning the law, question the motive and the implementation/interpretation of it. Just like how everyone reads their Bible / Quran / etc holy books differently, no matter how strict a law is, it's always open for interpretation by the people subjected to the law, if not the lawyers ultimately.

Instead, talk about what is a healthy way for students in local university to voice our their views or even alignment of interest in certain issues to a certain political party, without actually participating in the political process itself, which is what's being banned.

An example that I would put forward is to draw a new line where students can't run for party, be party member, campaign for an individual for office etc. but certainly fair if they want to step up and say what they think about the way certain people in office deal with things, and raise the credential of the other candidate by arguing how the other proposed solution will work. This will help foster an atmosphere of awareness to current issues. Then presumaly one can move on to propose setting up things like "mock parlimentary debates", or "online community forums", and other activities. On the one hand, it's almost common sense that if you emerge as a student leader in school, and you have the opportunity to reach out to more apathetic students, you would have already taken your first step into politics without actually being part of the official process. On the other hand, we're achieving this greater awareness, this greater democracy where every individual participate in the future of the country and no one sits there awaiting their faith to be determined.

Bah, you don't have to agree with my previous point, but that's certainly a way to bring up the issue without trying to contend whether certain laws should be abolished. People spent decades arguing that ISA is outdated, but it's still there - it sure is a real waste of time for a 2 day forum to talk about that.

conrad

06-12-2004, 06:03 PM

Make us feel wanted.

Some two years ago, shortly after being swept into power (replacing Milosevic), then Serbian prime minister Zoran Djindjic was invited to address a gathering of students at the LSE. Many Serbs were present, and he knew this. Halfway through his speech, he made a personal appeal to this part of the audience.

I paraphrase his words, as best I can remember them: "We cannot offer you anything close to what you have here. We cannot pay half as much, we have scarce resources; there are few opportunities at home. All we can offer you is the chance to rebuild the country where you were born. Come back - we need you."

Zoran Djindjic was far from a perfect man - some Serbs saw him as a deserter and arrogant political opportunist (he was assassinated in March). But that is immaterial. He was making a powerful, yet humble appeal to Serbian students for help.

Malaysia is not war-torn; we have no rebuilding to do. Our current leaders are not the product of popular uprisings. More than that, we have a lot more to offer returning students than Serbia ever did. All we were missing was the personal appeal, at a time when it would have made a difference. (There has been a gradual change in recent years.)

Appeal directly to students; preferably before they have gone abroad, and make it as personal as possible. Many SPM-leavers are not yet hardened cynics, however keen they may be to appear so. A personal appeal from the PM has a powerful effect on students that age, though they may be reluctant to admit it to their peers. The more personal the appeal, the more flattering it is to the student. Flattery works much better than berating someone for not giving something back to the country, a point lost on many leaders. Humility is not a trait commonly associated with political leaders; that is why it can be used to such arresting effect.

No doubt we are not as desperate as Serbia was; there is no need for our leaders to resort to such an appeal. There is indeed no need to; that is why it would work.

Good luck,
Conrad

el_empty

06-12-2004, 10:25 PM

digimushu

06-12-2004, 11:13 PM

Perhaps so...

I agree that R&D spending is an issue for M'sia.

Perhaps we should wonder which sector does the government intend to boost up up till 2020 and why?

digimushu, since you are in R&D, would you mind share some opinion, or in fact, perhaps summarize from what you know and what you have read, even within ReCom on how the government should do in terms of R&D.

On what sector the government intend to boost up, why don't we ask ourselves, what sector do we think that the government should boost up till 2020.

This one is a good one...

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1254&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=back+work&start=0

You see, the point that i'm trying to make is that there is no use to invite experts back if there is no focus in that area from the government. Pretty much I have learnt from people in academia back home that if the government has no focus in your research, there is no use going home.

Our PM has made such a plea. Those who were at the reception in DC would know that. Personally, i feel that it is pointless for self sponsored professionals to go home. I know I will get nailed for this but i feel they owe nothing to the government and have no obligation to go home. JPA scholars are funded by the people, for the people, thus they have the responsibility to go home and work.

R&D is a very expensive investment. From DARPA's history, we know that it is a hit-or-miss thing. There is no guarantee that you will get any useful results from the research in the short run. However, if, and this is a big if, IF you manage to find that 'silver bullet', you will be very rich, well-known, etc. In other words, it is a gamble where the stakes are high, but the returns are also high. And i do feel that our government does not have the guts to take such risks. Think of our half-completed MSC and our auto industry. has anyone wondered why we dont own any core technology?

I guess that is all I have to say about R&D in M'sia.

*duck and cover*

suri

07-12-2004, 03:38 AM

Hi, i feel like there are a couple of things i would like brought up to during the student presentation. I don't exactly know which are relevant given the context of the convention, so feel free to pick:

1. we need to bring back political discussions into university settings. the disconnect that current youth feel from the present state of our country is largely (i feel) due to the fact that we are unable to relate how domestic and international policies created as well as decisions made by the government to enact certain laws relate to our everyday lives. University settings certainly should provide a space that allows for youth to explore these issues and we should not feel afraid (or be made to feel afraid) to do so.

For example, we should discuss the impact of racial policies in our country post 1969, and be able to critically analyze how relevant and useful they are to our present day setting. What were and are the implications of those policies. Perhaps they relate directly to the outflow of brainpower from our country to other countries. etc. Be aware that I am not saying a policy is right or wrong, on way or the other....but we as students, need that space to be able to formulate an opinion on these issues. Our government says that we are not ready to discuss controversial issues such as this, but then again, is there ever going to be a time? do we have to wait for these issues to explode in our face before we even start addressing them? The time is now....and we need to start with us. IN ORDER TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS, WE NEED FIRST AND FOREMOST TO BE INFORMED CITIZENS.

2. taking a look at the way we educate our youth is another important issue - which probably requires a revamping of the education system. (others in this forum have touched on this) - maybe introducing social justice education to our educational curriculum would be something the government should look into.

I actually have to run to a meeting - but I'll be back with more suggestions.

peace, :wink:
suri

DecentMerson

07-12-2004, 04:19 AM

i think he has done that - make appeals.

but that's the problem with malaysia. it all sounds very nice and dandy at first but what happens after that? where's the follow up? much like many projects and kempen, it fizzles away and the press conveniently becomes aloof.

sigh...

couldn't agree more....

the problem with most of the projects and campaigns are no Follow Up... They need to run with it all the time... No point throwing in a huge sum of money and let it rot... No point implementing new projects with every new leader... The problem that we are facing is not SOLELY because of the planning... but because of keeping it going...

For instance... Rakan Muda campaign... think that many of us still can remember how the song go... how the long elaborated video clip which was aired some time back... it was a great idea of integrating youths of all walks of life and races... but few years down the road... wat good did we see? why? izzit because of the planning? I don't think so.

Another example.... The recycle campaign which has been going on for years... Did the habit and mentality of the people change since the first campaign and every other similar campaign launched years after years? Not much... why again?

Besides, I see a trend among some of our leaders - to change for the sake of changing. In order to show their 'existence', some of our leaders make unnecessary changes for the sake of changing the system...The taxi zoning system, the taxi color coding system, the bus 'black box' system, the MyKad, the new Passport...
Why again? Why do they have to waste our money on such no-brainers' changes? In order to show your existence, do something productive... do something constructive... do something wise... The point of this example is just to see a better use of taxpayer's money in the year 2020...

1 more thing, just a random point which i always wonder, whenever our Prime Minister goes abroad, how many ministers around the PM, in the news short clip of our PM boarding the plane, can you count... 20 ministers? 50??? I wonder how important their posts can be if they can spend time they doing nothing... Don't they have something better to do? Is it necessary to attend such occasion?? is this the reason why the paperworks in the government sectors take forever to settle??

and this leads to my next point...being efficient... how efficient is our current government is??? not even to venture into the part of corruption, just EFFICIENT will do....

For example, just because of the increase number of applicants for Passport (or izzit MyKad), and the Prime Minister's visit to the registration office not long ago... i think is the beginning of 2004..., the productive of the workers increase by 50% , from processing 200 applications to 300 applications a day... Wow... 50%... however, if we are to examine it closerly, the department has about 20 workers, and if we divide the number of applications processed and the number of workers, what we get is 15 applications are processed by a worker in a day.... in other words, it takes more than 30 minutes for a worker to get a application done... so much more with computers and all... get real... admit it, our government work force is NOT efficient, NOT at all...

if someone can get the percentage of government servant to other work force ratio(it is one of the highest in the world as far as I can remember), u'll be surprised by how huge the country's government work force is, and it's not too late to start to wonder what's the problem with the system, which leads to such inefficiency in the government sector...

... sorry for the 'blogging' voice... hahaha

07-12-2004, 07:12 AM

however, if we are to examine it closerly, the department has about 20 workers, and if we divide the number of applications processed and the number of workers, what we get is 15 applications are processed by a worker in a day.... in other words, it takes more than 30 minutes for a worker to get a application done... so much more with computers and all... get real... admit it, our government work force is NOT efficient, NOT at all...

20 workers?
20 workers including administrators?
20 workers including support staff?

or 20 workers whose main/sole responsibility is processing applications?

cquayhl

07-12-2004, 11:18 AM

R&D is a very expensive investment. From DARPA's history, we know that it is a hit-or-miss thing. There is no guarantee that you will get any useful results from the research in the short run. However, if, and this is a big if, IF you manage to find that 'silver bullet', you will be very rich, well-known, etc. In other words, it is a gamble where the stakes are high, but the returns are also high. And i do feel that our government does not have the guts to take such risks. Think of our half-completed MSC and our auto industry. has anyone wondered why we dont own any core technology?

digimushu, have to sound a note of caution here. in the spectrum of funding agencies, darpa is known to be particularly 'far out'...i shouldn't model a funding agency after them, especially if it's going to be the only one in the country there isn't a lot of money to play with. most other people fund much lower risk but still relatively high gain projects...

faisal, here's a link to the 'world class uni' article that shien jin and i wrote. it was written with a view to being quickly scanned by busy people.

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1484#32433

longer version here:

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/smf/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?OngQuay20041120

digimushu

07-12-2004, 11:53 AM

R&D is a very expensive investment. From DARPA's history, we know that it is a hit-or-miss thing. There is no guarantee that you will get any useful results from the research in the short run. However, if, and this is a big if, IF you manage to find that 'silver bullet', you will be very rich, well-known, etc. In other words, it is a gamble where the stakes are high, but the returns are also high. And i do feel that our government does not have the guts to take such risks. Think of our half-completed MSC and our auto industry. has anyone wondered why we dont own any core technology?

digimushu, have to sound a note of caution here. in the spectrum of funding agencies, darpa is known to be particularly 'far out'...i shouldn't model a funding agency after them, especially if it's going to be the only one in the country there isn't a lot of money to play with. most other people fund much lower risk but still relatively high gain projects...

I agree, I was just giving an example of a source of funding. Truth to be told, no R&D comes cheap. 'Cheapness' is a relative term. If you are in M'sia, definitely R&D will be cheaper dollar per dollar compared to the US. However, some of it is still expensive. Think of it this way, if someone was to design MEMS actuators using shape memory alloys, they will have to have their experimental apparatus built elsewhere, not in M'sia. why? because we dont have the expertise or the tools. the fact is that we do not own any core technology because we do not bother to invest in R&D at a grander scale. To put it mildly, we are still 'borrowers'...

__earth

07-12-2004, 12:34 PM

In term of education, I think we should follow a more liberal approach. Right now, our education system is as rigid as a stick. No, more like a carbon alloy. There is little freedom in pursuing academic opportunity. One instance, my former school, which was a boarding school in some obscure place offered just science stream! Imagine, if somebody wants to stay in that school, the only choice is to take up sciences! That has changed since I last left but that is thanks to the push of the alumni association for seeing the fault, not the government. Hence, it?s possible that other boarding schools may offer just science classes still.

Really, at least from my experience, the choices after high school seem to be limited. I only manage to open up only after coming to Ann Arbor. Most of the offers I saw back then was engineering and engineering and engineering and engineering, some actuarial, some more engineering, and some technical stuff and then even more engineering, and then some social science and then medicine, medicine and medicine. Heck, there are even universities like UTP and Uniten that are too saturated with engineering classes. The government is eager to produce more engineers and doctors but there are other things that matter too.

And of course, there?s the vernacular system but that has become too murky to talk about. Still the govt should stop sponsoring race-based school stream. Mahathir pushed towards one type at the end of this career but Badawi is doing nothing. An extensive discussion on vernacular system is here (http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=756&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=vernacular&start=0).

faisalluqman

07-12-2004, 02:56 PM

thanks all for the posts so far, I'll try my best to forward the ideas posted here to the convention.

I believe Nadiah from Harvard is going to talk about research. One subject that I'm particularly concerned about it the awareness on the importance of education in the rural and interior areas of our country. It seems that students from rural areas are not given enough encouragement from their parents/rural community to pursue higher education. Even those who are determined are handicapped by their socio-economic status (pressured to find employment to support the rest of the family, etc). many are also not aware of the opportunities available to them (loans, scholarships, etc).

I'm just worried that if nothing is done, the education(?) gap will continue to increase. Does any one have any thoughts on this?

Thanks again all. I'm sure most of you are in the midst of finals. Good luck everyone.

Best,
Faisal

08-12-2004, 05:22 AM

And of course, there?s the vernacular system but that has become too murky to talk about. Still the govt should stop sponsoring race-based school stream. Mahathir pushed towards one type at the end of this career but Badawi is doing nothing. An extensive discussion on vernacular system is here (http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=756&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=vernacular&start=0).

I don't think that'll work.

The better solution would be to make National Schools more attractive and competitive. For example: improve the 2nd/3rd language/mother-tongue classes offered in national schools. I believe most parents who send their children to vernacular schools, in particular, Chinese National-Type Schools, do so, because they want their children to receive proper language education. In addition, they perceive the Chinese NT Schools as being more competitive, eg. offering better preperation in math.

08-12-2004, 07:49 AM

There are many issues that need to be improved on by 2020, but how well Malaysia succeeds as a nation truly depends on how the talents it is able to attract and keep (that goes for any nation, actually). In a knowledge economy, the top 10% of the nation will contribute more than 50% of the economy.

In that respect, I believe the most important issue that the elite Malays (who I believe will be the majority of the participants in the conference) should be thinking about is whether they want see a Malaysia with all Malaysians, regardless of race, contributing towards the success of the country. If they do, they'll have to be willing to share equal powers with the other races and end racially discriminatory policies. In addition, then they'll have to be aggressive in attracting talents, allow talented people to make a contribution and value that contribution.

We might not want to admit it, but it's a fact that most high-level positions in the country are being held by Malays and the non-Malays, especially the talented ones, are generally not interested to work in government (because of this discrimination). If policy-making and the running of the country is bad, no matter how productive the private sector, Malaysia cannot succeed.

One solution is to end the discrimination and aggressively recruit talented people into high-level positions in government. While this might be sound policy, the politics of today does not allow for it. However, the government could undertake a gradual shift in policy while at the same time reeducate young Malaysians on the value of meritocracy and racial equality.

chenchow

08-12-2004, 02:36 PM

One thing I would hope to see would be that non-Muslims would have a passion to serve the nation. While it is great to see many of the JPA scholars graduate with fantastic results and achievements, it is very sad that a great number of them do not have a passion in serving the nation as a civil servant.

Perhaps some may argue that it would be a waste of talent for them to serve in civil service. Some may claim that they would not have much promotion opportunities. Some would claim that the remunerations are not good... etc...

But lets think from other perspectives, do you think it is fair to the government for these scholars to not even bother to consider serving the nation? Some of them have actually picked up job offers even before they have graduated. While it may be a point to say that government is not strict in enforcing its bond, but why shouldn't we think from this way, that those scholars currently studying abroad, remember that we get to study abroad, thanks to the taxpayers' money and we have a social responsibility to help serving the nation.

While there are many ways to serve the nation, I am really hoping that more people would return to serve, and this is also a problem that lies within the system or policy.

How can we attract the scholars to work as a civil servant? How can the scholars be committed to civil service? I, for one, would definitely go back and help serve the nation, but how many people here in ReCom is willing to put in the same commitment to say that they would definitely serve as a civil servant.

Jia_Hong

09-12-2004, 01:32 AM

about serving back the nation.

Perhaps the government can provide some 'star stories' - or other options (like working in the GLCs...perhaps they are not as 'bad' as the government (but then again, is the gov really that bad?)?) ... I wonder how the words 'serving the bond' actually means to most of the JPA scholars.

It is undeniable that $$$ is a very encouraging factor - but I believe if there is a good working culture in M'sia; things may change? I think for those who are working - can comment further on this.

about development
Also, looking at Malaysia at a whole - even by comparing the roads around KLCC or the culture, earning power of most townships around PJ/KL to that 30-40km...let say Dengkil or Batu tiga...look at the difference. and the divergence is even more apparent in other states.

So, good point about all the high tech and development - but all this need people(brains in this case) to maximise it's potential. If you observe all the successful countries - it's all those with people that make the difference - although money is good (if it's well managed - Dubai is fantastic example - but it started with a good leader too - and he also knows that attracting ppl is the key to Dubai's future too).

Yet to compete in the world today - is to compete smart; what are the industries that Malaysia can truly lead? We should need see in terms of demands and supply or infrastructure...but I think the best is to see at our software - the people.

Some say that we should only grow in the direction where our people can - we cannot grow other ways or further than that...and that's the key to 'utilitarian politics'.

But the best softwares are those which can self-adapt - and this goes back to education & mentality.

digimushu

09-12-2004, 04:25 AM

...
In that respect, I believe the most important issue that the elite Malays (who I believe will be the majority of the participants in the conference) should be thinking about is whether they want see a Malaysia with all Malaysians, regardless of race, contributing towards the success of the country. If they do, they'll have to be willing to share equal powers with the other races and end racially discriminatory policies. In addition, then they'll have to be aggressive in attracting talents, allow talented people to make a contribution and value that contribution.

We might not want to admit it, but it's a fact that most high-level positions in the country are being held by Malays and the non-Malays, especially the talented ones, are generally not interested to work in government (because of this discrimination). If policy-making and the running of the country is bad, no matter how productive the private sector, Malaysia cannot succeed.

One solution is to end the discrimination and aggressively recruit talented people into high-level positions in government. While this might be sound policy, the politics of today does not allow for it. However, the government could undertake a gradual shift in policy while at the same time reeducate young Malaysians on the value of meritocracy and racial equality.

This is connected to one of the main agendas of our new PM, racial unity. The government has been trying to promote racial unity with NS and advertisements, etc. However, success seems kind of elusive. Maybe we can present some of the arguments that have already been discussed in ReCom, such as:

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1465&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=racial+unity&start=0

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=32295&highlight=racial+unity#32295

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=31659&highlight=racial+unity#31659

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=30642&highlight=racial+unity#30642

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1212&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=racial+unity&start=0

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1104&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=racial+unity&start=0

chenchow

09-12-2004, 02:42 PM

Another aspect would be to look into the letter to editor that was written before:-
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/27681

chenchow

10-12-2004, 10:10 PM

Hopefully that ReCom members could brainstorm your mind since the Konvensyen is just about 3 days away!

Anything you wish to say, please convey it here~!

chenchow

12-12-2004, 04:42 AM

Any more thoughts from ReComers, since 14th is just 2 days away.

If you care about Malaysia? If you have thoughts on how to transform Malaysia? Please kindly post here~!

chenchow

12-12-2004, 04:59 AM

On the note of rural development, especially in terms of reducing the gap between the rural and urban population, I would say that the best way would be to intensify the culture of going into village, especially in terms of bringing undergraduates to spend a few days in small village where they would stay with the villagers and try to inspire them. It would be great learning experience for the undergraduates too. I would say that this could be done through various universities and colleges throughout our country and this would be a gradual process where these rural folks would get more exposure to meet undergraduates and they could keep in touch in the future and build up the relationships.

Another aspect that I hope would be able to be done would be to get people to share as a community. This is gradually getting more and more serious, especially in urban areas, where Malaysians are getting more and more stingy and not willing to share and help others. We need to build up the culture of sharing is good. That's what precisely ReCom is trying to do, but I would say that we have only reached a very small cross section of the society.

And beyond sharing, we need to build up the culture of ownership, where Malaysians should treat the facilities they have gotten to enjoy, be it the school, or the bus stop or even public phone, as a common good enjoyed by many people in the same extended community family, where everyone would use it properly. It is very sad to see many of those facilities being wasted, when people just vandalize them. The same goes to those prank calls to 999. It is so sad that 98+% of the calls are prank, and many of those calls are made by kids, since the trend of having more prank calls are during holiday season. The same goes to recycling, where people seem to be aware that it is essential, but do not bother.

What do fellow ReComers think would be a practical way to get people to feel ownership of the common facilities? How can we shed the attitude of tidak apa and we don't care. It is none of our business etc.

chenchow

12-12-2004, 01:42 PM

Just curious why ReComers have no thoughts on this topic. Time is running short and I really hope that ReComers could help sharing your thoughts for this Konvensyen Perdana.

Cultivating the honesty among fellow citizens - This is a very essential one, where we should be able to have greater trust on others. Say when our friends who wish to visit Malaysia asks us, whether they would get cheated by anyone or not, I hope that one day we can confidently say no. But today, I am not saying everyone, but there are quite some cab drivers, traders and many others who do not do ply their trades genuinely. Why can't the cab drivers all drive honestly collecting what they should be paid based on the meters? If everyone cooperate and do not cheat, wouldn't it be a great news to the industry, where people would take cab much more often? However, if there are black sheeps that deviate from it and try to earn extra, this has caused great problems. While this just brings up the problem, the question is how can we do this? From where should we start? The same goes with the bribery problem. The citizen have the expectation that they could bribe and there are some black sheeps within the police forces that accept it and this problem exacerbates.

Another culture that I hope school and other institutions could help build up would be the culture of entrepreneurships. It is my hope that Malaysians would dare to initiate new ventures with calculated risk, where they have sufficient knowledge on a venture and started it whole-heartedly. The knowledge of venture capitalist, business plan, executive summary etc should be transmitted to every university and college students, where they could use this as a disposal when need. Institutions should also initiate more angel funding, like www.cradle.com.my to help encourage the youth to come up with revolutionary idea and dare to take risk to initiate it legally.

A crucial point would be on integrated transportation system, where it is good to see KL have a special task force, Rapid KL working on this project, to integrate all the LRTs and public bus routes, but it is my hope to see other cities and towns to have a great transportation system, where people would use it comfortably and leave the car in their yards.

Another issue close to my heart would be the execution of Bilateral Free Trade Agreement, where we are currently behind Singapore and Thailand in its execution. It is of utmost importance that we do lots of catch up, where we would be able to gain synergy in this aspect. FTA is within the framework of WTO, and hence I see no reason why we shouldn't move forward on this. The TIFA that we had with US is a step ahead, but there is still a long way to go. The recent liberization of our financial institution is a great step forward, but I really hope that the local industry could gradually be exposed to regional, as well as international challenges and hopefully they can take on the challenges.

I really hope more ReComers could think on various issues and share on what is in your mind.

What do you hope to see Malaysia by 2020. This is crucial as Konvensyen Perdana would be a major way where the government seeks input towards the 9th Malaysian Plan 2006-2010.

Jia_Hong

12-12-2004, 11:19 PM

Supporting Chen Chow's point: Rural development is also a double advantage to the undergrad - in terms of cultivating 'sharing' and 'helping each other' attitudes.

On the point on entrepreneurship:
Entrepreneurship can start in school - but it can only grow when at least one generation of entrepreneurs are created.

In fact, in M'sia, it seems entrepreneurial spirit was higher among those fresh graduates in the 1980s recession. The reason was because there was a bad job market - they are stimulated!

Human are creature of habits - if there is no stimulation, we will remain much in the same nature, without the shock growth that's required for any vision 2020 or any great nation building.

Ownership - Accountability
It seems our PM always stress about accountability especially in the start of his tenure. Yet, so far - how far has the message has become a habit among people?

I would say no matter what's the outcome of the discussion - it is the 'doing' part that matters. A developing country like Malaysia have no time for empty talks (we don't want politicians or leaders just give directions, we want a direction) - it's the focus of doing on socio-economic issues that can help us reach the goal.

But truly - let's hope the goal is not a finish line, as that's the only goal towards quality.

opaqa

13-12-2004, 08:30 AM

Fair distribution of wealth.

It seems like not many people bother much about rural areas that don't even have electricity.

It's pointless trying so hard to move the country forward when you leave behind a chunk of significant issues unattended.

13-12-2004, 08:45 AM

Another issue close to my heart would be the execution of Bilateral Free Trade Agreement, where we are currently behind Singapore and Thailand in its execution. It is of utmost importance that we do lots of catch up, where we would be able to gain synergy in this aspect. FTA is within the framework of WTO, and hence I see no reason why we shouldn't move forward on this. The TIFA that we had with US is a step ahead, but there is still a long way to go. The recent liberization of our financial institution is a great step forward, but I really hope that the local industry could gradually be exposed to regional, as well as international challenges and hopefully they can take on the challenges.

Actually could someone educate us on Malaysia's benefit of an BFTA between Malaysia and the US?

Although Malaysia is the US 10-th largest trading partner, most of the trade are electronics-related goods, where big US multinationals like Intel come to Malaysia, produce chips and reexport them to the US. I believe the tariffs on these items are very low or nonexistent (otherwise Intel would move to other countries).

Singapore did the BFTA because they had no agricultural industry to protect, Malaysia has a pretty significant agricultural sector. Furthermore, on the high-tech area (like automobile, finance etc.) there's no way Malaysian companies can compete on equal footing with the huge multinational corporation (at least in the near future).

chenchow

13-12-2004, 09:19 AM

In fact, I am not too sure about it, but one thing about Malaysia's agricultural industry is that we are a net importer of food and agricultural product. I think Malaysia export around Rm12 billion and import around RM19 billion. I believe the current administration is trying to greatly increase this export figure.

taufiq

13-12-2004, 04:58 PM

chenchow

14-12-2004, 12:11 AM

taufiq and fellow ReComers,

That's a crucial point, but the question is how to keep our youth getting focused.

I had some chats with many people and often, the main problem with our youth is that they do not care much about what's going on around them. What most people care are the current trend, current culture etc?

el_empty

14-12-2004, 01:04 AM

You might want to suggest finding a way to reduce 'hedonisasi' among the youngsters. When the youngsters start to feel 'too' happy (ie enjoy sana-sini) they'll tend to forget their target, their objectives and even their/the country's future plan. We'll gonna lose a lot of potential think-tanks because of this culture.

Yes people can enjoy.. but there must be a limit..
just a thought..

:D [/i]

taufiq and fellow ReComers,

That's a crucial point, but the question is how to keep our youth getting focused.

I had some chats with many people and often, the main problem with our youth is that they do not care much about what's going on around them. What most people care are the current trend, current culture etc?

woooahhh hold on there

you can't just tell youths what their priorities are. if you want to mobilize them for a country's future, give them the environments, (drop away cronyism and corruption, do away with racial quotas), give them the education (what's up with our partisan and authoritarian universities?) and give them the opportunities (freedom of expression, debate, and get rid of quotas). but don't tell them what's good for them and expect them to be grateful.

i'm sorry but you guys sound so paternalistic and self-righteous.

digimushu

14-12-2004, 01:15 AM

True, we have no right to tell people what to do with their lives, maybe only guide them or provide the environment where they can actually utilize their talents.

markuzzz

14-12-2004, 01:28 AM

Spot on guys. Ignorance and indifference plague the malaysian youth.

From the start of school, we're never encouraged to discover and learn, but to memorise. Subject matter is limited to one or two books (think bible) and teachers are god. And if religion is a befitting analogy of primary and secondary school institutions, tertiary education would be analogous to a business, esp in the private unis and colleges in msia.

I thought things would be different in college, but even here, spoonfeeding is soo rampant that even learning at your own pace and depth is hard. I'm not too sure about the public unis... but from the talk about quotas and all, i'm guessing it's not all fair and lovely there either.

kennytang

14-12-2004, 02:23 AM

well, thats what msian education system is. memorizing n less understanding.
n what i am pissed is that we gotta take some useless subjects. we r appointed the subjects but not out of our interest or intende major.
for eg, moral is an excessive subject to me, though i score an A1 but deep in my heart, i know that i have learnt nothg from that class. the only impact of that subject is that lotsa my brain cells r killed. even my frens say that i dont practise moral. hahahahaha
another thg which i dont get is: y do we needa study religion stuff? everyone has his/her own beliefs, y r we forced to study smthg which doesnt seem to interest me n doesnt seem to affect me a lot, if not at all. for my case, i am an atheist, studying religion stuff is like.............. irrelevant n totally not appealing.

taufiq

14-12-2004, 10:08 AM

I'm totally agree with you guys
That's why I hope the government will try to do something
especially regarding the environment
which the government should be able to cotntol.
We must create a healthier environment
around the young people so that they will be more focus.

youngyew

14-12-2004, 11:57 AM

another thg which i dont get is: y do we needa study religion stuff? everyone has his/her own beliefs, y r we forced to study smthg which doesnt seem to interest me n doesnt seem to affect me a lot, if not at all. for my case, i am an atheist, studying religion stuff is like.............. irrelevant n totally not appealing.
IF we stop for a moment to ponder upon all our appeals about the unnecessity of things like moral studies, religious studies, history etc, my opinion is that all these laments are of not enough severity as to warrrant the removal of these subjects in our curriculum.

I have to agree that I myself am not very much influenced by all these taxing subjects. What can memorising 80 nilai morals do to us, right? Okay, I know that Pulau Pinang was "robbed" by Francis Light in 1786; but so what?

It is not about knowing them that matters. It is the lessons, implications and also ramification that they impinge on our daily lives, that matter. Just when everybody is dreaming of how much easier life would be without moral, let's have a thought experiment of the situation if it turned out to be true. There's no moral studies, history, religious studies. Havoc, more delinquency, more incest?

I guess all these are subliminal. If you don't believe in the power of propaganda and advertisements, just take a look at the statistics of how much every company are willing to spent in adverts worldwide in favour of themselves. Adverts never have effect on you huhh? Wonder why the cigarettes company paying hundred Ks just to put on a billboard on a soccer pitch? It does have an effect, even when your mouth negates it. The same applies to moral educaton and history.

ElansarGelmir

14-12-2004, 12:52 PM

IMHO, moral education, ethics studies and history should remain in the curriculum... however, it's the content of these subjects that matter. If the govt tries to use these subjects for their propaganda, then it's obvious that these subjects serve no useful purpose other than producing more govt zealots. Maybe kenny is against these studies due to his bad experience with the subjects itself. I remember my moral teacher (another BN zombie) kept telling us that freedom of speech should not exist, and in SPM, yes, in SPM, we will only be given points for saying that freedom of speech should not exist in Malaysia (although we may have strong arguments from the other side. so much for encouraging us to be critical minded, huh?).

And ethics studies... what do we learn in ethics studies? Why Rasullulah is the universal ethic model? I'm not disparaging Nabi Muhammad here, but I just don't see how applicable the ethics studies conducted in Malaysia.
And history, instead of learning the exciting wars of the world, the rich cultures of the early ages, the Malaysia history textbook is flooded with Islam studies. Not that Islam has no significant role in our world history, but I don't think that's the point of studying history, yes?

The change that I hope to see in our education is the emphasis on arts and culture. We are too science oriented so much so that the arts and culture studies (that was campur-adukked with history) in Malaysia barely exist anymore. And how do we learn literature in high school? Get a reference book and memorize all themes and the "translated meaning" of the work without trying to be more analytical by studying the works independently. Why? Because we barely have time to just sit by a corner or a shady spot under a tree and savor the beauty of the works of literature. We need time to understand physics concepts, to build up a strong chemistry foundation, to memorize mechanisms of Biology, and to practice and practice math (and not to forget to attend tuition classes) that we have no time to sit down and think about the literary work. And we can never be subjective (meaning, we cannot have our own say. Our answers have to be parallel to that of our govt's). To be on the safe side, students prefer memorizing the notes listed by reference books to generating their own ideas.

kennytang

14-12-2004, 01:30 PM

I guess all these are subliminal. If you don't believe in the power of propaganda and advertisements, just take a look at the statistics of how much every company are willing to spent in adverts worldwide in favour of themselves. Adverts never have effect on you huhh? Wonder why the cigarettes company paying hundred Ks just to put on a billboard on a soccer pitch? It does have an effect, even when your mouth negates it. The same applies to moral educaton and history.

i dont think so. its completely diff. its an isolated case. advertisements do have a big effect on consumers. everyone knows that perfectly. in fact, its already a fact.
but for moral n religous study, i dont see the point clearly. for those who take moral class, most of them r categorized into 2 major groups. one which totally doesnt touch the moral book coz they feel that its useless. another one is which memorized the whole book but dunno what the heck is it talking bout.
moral is smthg which is imposed on u by the environment n ur own civil-minded thought. its not smthg which can be forced. mayb we can implement this thought via education, but i am pretty sure the current moral class is not functioning well.
take an example, its so common that the older generation are more civic-minded than the younger generation even though the older generation didnt take moral class...... so, u call this moral studies?????
i ll rather prefer a moral class which doesnt emphasize on memorizing but practising. the class shd be conducted by telling the students the experience of doing good deeds n encourage them to do that. attending class n memorize 80 stuffs is certainly what a subject shd be called 'moral'. it shd be 'memorizing class'.
mayb in class, the teacher shd focus more on social prob, such as drinking, smoking, taking weed, etc. that ll be a better moral class.

kennytang

14-12-2004, 01:40 PM

[quote="ElansarGelmir"]IMHO, moral education, ethics studies and history should remain in the curriculum... however, it's the content of these subjects that matter.
And ethics studies... what do we learn in ethics studies? Why Rasullulah is the universal ethic model? I'm not disparaging Nabi Muhammad here, but I just don't see how applicable the ethics studies conducted in Malaysia.
And history, instead of learning the exciting wars of the world, the rich cultures of the early ages, the Malaysia history textbook is flooded with Islam studies. Not that Islam has no significant role in our world history, but I don't think that's the point of studying history, yes?
quote]

yup, i totally agree with elansar. com'on, studies r all bout understanding instead of memorization. but i wonder y r we in the wrong path? n wawasan 2020? mmmm...... is that possible with the current curiculum?
well, i am not against any race or religion here, seriously, but i personally think that we shd be given the right, (yeah, i mean RIGHT) to choose the subject we wanna study. if the education department insists that we take religion/culture class, y cant we choose from a list of what we r interested in?
i also dont c the point of memorizing the names of 25 rassululah during our ethics class in intec. can anyone tell me how well that will help us is our lives or personality coz so far, i still cant find any yet.

ElansarGelmir

14-12-2004, 01:43 PM

Though moral class may help in making us more civic minded, i think the main objective of moral education is to smear our beautiful SPM result slip with a non-A1.

youngyew

14-12-2004, 04:09 PM

Though moral class may help in making us more civic minded, i think the main objective of moral education is to smear our beautiful SPM result slip with a non-A1.
I think that has got to do with the conspiracy theory of "government trying to disadvantage non-bumi students with moral studies" again. I think partly true. But with proper "techniques" and proper "intensive tuitoin classes", getting A1 in moral studies is a breeze. That's rote memorisation and some little tricks, and it is a downright antithesis to the objective of moral studies. I am just trying to make a point that it is not that hard after all to score A1 in moral, rather than justifying the rote studies. I hate and am totally against regurgitation!

moral is smthg which is imposed on u by the environment n ur own civil-minded thought. its not smthg which can be forced. mayb we can implement this thought via education, but i am pretty sure the current moral class is not functioning well.
Totally agree. Environmental factor has FAR MORE BEARING on our personality than the in-class reading and memorising. What I tried to say wasn't that "our moral studies and religious studies are effective in moulding one's personality and virtue". Rather, I tried to justify the existence of these subjects themselves. While the current syllabus and orientation method is undoubtedly a flop, these subjects should still be in place. Because it is simply too essential in any curriculum in any country, and I insist on the subliminal influence part, no matter how small it is. Our conscience, decency and virtue is constituted and shaped by our path of lives, and I do believe the existence of these "formal studies" do help to correct the wrong in our perception. I believe we are all results of relatively good upbringing, so we have our mental shield in place and we may think these values are useless. What about those whose father tell them "smoking is cool" since young?

i ll rather prefer a moral class which doesnt emphasize on memorizing but practising. the class shd be conducted by telling the students the experience of doing good deeds n encourage them to do that.
What we need to do to our moral studies is to improvise and to improve. I think the class kenny suggested is really interesting.. 8) It's like granddad's story of life. Very beneficial if conducted properly, and if there is one, I am surely the first to join! :P

chenchow

14-12-2004, 10:03 PM

Perhaps some of you guys have not been in touch with the SPM Moral Education syllabus. Right now, it is project-based and not root memorization. I don't know the exact details, but it is something like the students would need to go out and carry out community service etc, in line with the moral values that they have learned, and write out about their experience. It is more of a project-based course.

And as far as youngyew said, Moral Education used to be a course that you can study and an A1 can be easily guaranteed if you know the techniques. I walked out from SPM immediately knowing that A1 in Moral is guaranteed. It is indeed not too hard. My school has more students getting A1 in Moral and Mandarin, than in History, Malay, English, or even the science subjects.

youngyew

14-12-2004, 10:14 PM

Perhaps some of you guys have not been in touch with the SPM Moral Education syllabus. Right now, it is project-based and not root memorization. I don't know the exact details, but it is something like the students would need to go out and carry out community service etc, in line with the moral values that they have learned, and write out about their experience. It is more of a project-based course.
Really? I never knew that. I knew that the syllabus has been changed, but I thought they only reduced the quantity of "nilai" from 80 to 20+. If there has been healthy development in moral studies then it's great. Anyone from form 4 or form 5 telling us more about the details?

chenchow

14-12-2004, 10:18 PM

Yeah the number of nilai has been reduced, as well as a great percentage of Moral Education is on project-based, so the test is not heavily weighted.

In a way, this is good in promoting the students in practising the Moral education that they have learned in the course or before, but in a way, many students (not all) still do not appreciate it, and they look at it as a chore, where they need to do a project. In this way, this course would have more of an element of subjectivity, whereas previously, you can get your acts together and an A1 in Moral can be guaranteed. The projects would be graded in school, just like kerja kursus.

el_empty

15-12-2004, 12:59 AM

morality begins with examplary conduct.

are government officials and ministers and datuks showing a good example?

pandaboy

15-12-2004, 07:28 AM

morality begins with examplary conduct.

are government officials and ministers and datuks showing a good example?

That's a good question. I cant answer that..lol :wink:

I still think moral in SPM is not a good way to judge a person's moral. You see, even though it's project based now...anyone can just act like they've been doing community service( I think they need photo evidence....something like that, so u can pretend that you are helping instead of really helping , if you get what I mean). Why not let the teachers give marks based on what they observed? It's kinda subjective.. I dont know...what way do you guys think is the best way? :?:

opaqa

15-12-2004, 08:03 AM

Regardless of how good/bad a curriculum is, in the end, it's up to the students to practice what they've learned. Living in the right environment is a plus.

kennytang

15-12-2004, 08:27 AM

Regardless of how good/bad a curriculum is, in the end, it's up to the students to practice what they've learned. Living in the right environment is a plus.

yeah, in the end, its all up to the students if they wanna practise what they have learnt. they r the government of their own heart n thought.
however, with a sad tone, i shall say that not all teenagers nowadays have the initiative n enthusiasm to think what is beneficial n what is good for them.... all they know is peer influence... smoking, taking weeds, lepak..... etc
they certainly need some encouragement n support to change their attitude.
i think that one's personality n mind thought are molded since young. one's upbringing n environment is the most important element to determine one's personality. one is easily influenced when one is still a kid, how nice it is if every parent make an effort to mold his/her kid into a future leader.

sanghanuman

15-12-2004, 10:43 AM

I agree with Faisal regarding the rural-urban education gap and the need to improve on it. I think that instead of helping the students according to their ethnicity, it is time that the government addresses the more needy, bright students who could not further their studies because of lack of money. Maybe we can ask them why are they not helping the "right" group.

Here in Recom, we assume a lot of things; bumi rights etc, but perhaps the govt does not have enough faith in non Bumi students that they would come back and serve Malaysia. If this is the case, we must assert that such assumption is not true. I hear from a lot of Recomers that we are as nationalistic as any other Malaysians. So, if we could assure the leaders that everyone of us has equal level of commitment towards our country, perhaps that can help.

More on education. I would love to see our young generation be exposed to the diverse environments that we have in Malaysia. Those who have the ability to contribute to the society (like teaching english, organizing/participating in grassroot organizations) should do so to help others, and more importantly, to help themselves to know their society better. Not through BTN. That's not helping at all. We just talk and not doing things. Social service like this would expand our perspectives on issues that might not initially look as important.

And I also agree with Suri's concern about the need for us to address our issues as soon as possible. As younger generation that will lead this country one day, we should have channels to express our political activism. Suppressing will only cause us to explode this time or another.