Dr. M on outsourcing Malaysian jobs

?It would be better for Malaysia to relocate some of its labour-intensive businesses to Indonesia,? Dr Mahathir said here yesterday after meeting with Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/12/14/nation/9650259&sec=nation

What kind of jobs is Tun Dr. M advocating to be outsourced to Indonesia? Most Indonesians seem to work either in plantation, construction, or are housemaid, neither of which could be outsourced (unless of course parents start outsourcing their kids to Indonesia! :wink:)

[chenchow]

Yeah, I agree with prince. I was startled when I read that comment. Personally, I think what that could be relocated would mean like the plantation industry be reduced in Malaysia and more of such activities are done in Indonesia? But I think this would not be in the right interest of our country.

I agree with prince that for construction, it would not be possible to outsource, unless we do not need to build any infrastructure.

[digimushu]

man...that is one big screw up...

what was he thinking when he was talking about that?

[ElansarGelmir]

man...that is one big screw up...

what was he thinking when he was talking about that?

maybe he has friends in indo...

[topdog]

give the man a break. he's nearing 80! could be senility creeping in. after all, he never made stupid comments in his younger days. uh...wait...

[el_empty]

he's still on top of things lah. he was just currying favors and sucking up to susilo. promote healthy ties by spewing out rhetoric. no need to gempar. carry on business as usual and keep the illegal indos streaming in.

[__earth]

I might be reading too much into Mahathir's statement but he might be referring to a trade theory that says a country would concentrate on the industries that depends on one factor of production of which a country is well-endowed with, if free trade exists. (Jeez, I struggling to put it into words)

Between labor and capital, I think Malaysia is better endowed with capital and Indonesia is better endowed with labor. According to that trade theory, Malaysia would concentrate on capital based industry, Indonesia on labor based. So, it makes sense to do what Mahathir is saying, if Malaysia is better endowed in capital and Indonesia the other.

But then again, his reason for saying this is to curb illegal immigrant. So, he might not be thinking of any trade theory at all.

[theT]

i sorta agree with __earth.

the way I understand it, that big corporation should do outsourcing in Indonesia, just like big firms outsourcing their company internationally. It helps the company and the foreign country; cheap labor for the company and job oppurtunity for the people in that particular country (in this case, Indonesia).

though right now I am anti-big corporations, I'm afraid I'm gonna be their slaves someday.

[el_empty]

labor intensive jobs like? ..... manufacturing?
manu is currently our number one export. relocate it and we'll have to sell sea water to get a positive GDP.

come to think of it, he is losing his rockers...

[__earth]

labor intensive jobs like? ..... manufacturing?
manu is currently our number one export. relocate it and we'll have to sell sea water to get a positive GDP.

come to think of it, he is losing his rockers...

maybe low level stuff like apparel or stuff. I donno. I'm talking this from on top of my head, not from actual data. But manufacturing still relies a lot on machines.

but if worse come to worst and we have to sell sea water, there's always Singapore :twisted:

[topdog]

perhaps in his fantasy world malaysia is already a [insert-latest-buzzword] hub and everybody is a "knowledge worker."

[Thirdshifter]

I was unlucky enough to actually bump into this guy at KLCC last week. He, o nthe other hand was lucky that i didnt notice him until he was well in his Car. Damn it!

Ok, lets try to rationalize what he meant by ?It would be better for Malaysia to relocate some of its labour-intensive businesses to Indonesia,?

1. Why would it be better?
2. What are the Labour intensive bussinesses that Malaysia have?
3. Why Indonesia not Cambodia, Laos or Vietnam? I think those 3 countries are more in need of foreign investments then Indonesia. Heck it's probably a lot safer too..


Also, Why the hell is Star even writing articles based on Mahathirs opinion? And this Susilo bambang Guy why meet Mahathir?

[youngyew]

I was unlucky enough to actually bump into this guy at KLCC last week. He, o nthe other hand was lucky that i didnt notice him until he was well in his Car. Damn it!
Sorry for being dense and saying tangent things. But who is he? You mean Dr. M?

[phantom]

I was unlucky enough to actually bump into this guy at KLCC last week. He, o nthe other hand was lucky that i didnt notice him until he was well in his Car. Damn it!


i dont think whoever you mentioned here gave a freaking shit about you. even i wont give a shit to e'ass who hated me.do u think that person u mentioned would? hell no.embrace urself,pls.


TRUST ME,IF U THINK DR.M IS A JUNK,whatever his policies are,were and will be will give u loopholes to further called him a junk. regardless of how well,smart,genious the plans are,you'll hate/make fun of them just becoz they came out from a mouth of someone u look down at. but bear in mind,some ppl revere him and will do anything to keep him intact.it doest means,they have BN epighrams tattoed to their asses to do that. but then again,i do agree,not e'single of his plan deserved standing ovation.but this one,has its postives tones.

period.

even if we dont outsourced/deindustrialized our economy ,we will be running out of of factories soon or sooner. Dr. M has warned about how China is attracting so many investors there becoz of its cheap labors,and cheap industry cost.

even here in usa, americans are crying out loud for losing jobs to China.

company like Intel,penang has moved to China.

one has to wonder why outsourcing happened in the 1st place?

one has to wonder why on earth malaysian will hire the indonesian workers to work in the prouction lines? some factories pay less to foreign workers than to malaysians. i have no stats on this, but as i keep hearing the hate-conversations,the bangladeshi,the indonesians are working like animals in our factories,owned by the mat sallehs. while we malaysian,are avoiding them,some treating them like subhuman. ( live shows happening e'where in m'sia and elsewhere around the globe )

if a labor intensive factory ( insert anything wise ) needs to run in lower cost environments, they can move to indonesia. This will REDUCE THE BILLIONS OF RINGGIT THE GOV SPENT ON THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS,to curb them,to send them home,to catch them and yada yada yada.

you may argue,if this happened,eventually we'll have no factory in m'sia becoz it's cheaper in indonesia. This is where the gov must act. the gov must makes sure that certain factories must meet the requirements before allowing them to move to indonesia.


when outsourcing happens, some greedy businessmen can suck the indonesians' workers blood by asking them to work like animals like they do in m'sia. but when u r in indonesia,in some foreign country,u r not anymore the King of the land,ergo, u r in linked to the indonesians employee/employers laws. the indonesians will have more say to their works' environments than in m'sia.this is where,the workers will deserve equal treatment. or else fight for one. here indonesians are not anymore subhuman,but the land,energy owners.mess with them,ur entire business will be in total mess.

apart from that, when we try to outsourced jobs to indonesia, we'll be providing jobs to million of indonesians,sharing our prosperity
(yeah,i know,the rich will keep becoming richer )..but the poor are now start to enter the middle class group. this is where the mixed economy system like us, can do something noble.

i dont know how the taxes work in this case.but if a malaysian is still being taxed for his/her incomes,regardless where he/she has earned, we'll have another source of tax and so do indonesia.

why indonesia,not laos or cambodia?

perhaps,laos and cambodia can fit well here too but to begin with,indonesia and malaysia have so many similiraties.the language,the religion. this can reduce the money spent becoz of differences we might face. plus, indonesia has about 200 millions ppl.

i think that's that for now.

k,off facing books.final mode.

[chenchow]

I would say that I revere Dr. Mahathir all along, but that does not mean that I would agree with his opinion in all matters. Without Dr. Mahathir, Malaysia would not be at where we are now. He has been very visionary, and perhaps he has envisioned something that we don't understand ourselves.

Remember the time Penang Bridge was built, North South Highway was built, KLIA was built, and many more other projects, without that, we would need to wait more than 3 hours to reach Penang island from butterworth with the amount of traffic we have. We would need to take 10 hours or more to go from Penang to KL, when we can do it in 3.5-4 hours today.

However, on this issue, I personally haven't seen the rationale behind. The illegal immigrants are an issue of concern.

[phantom]

chenchow wrote:

I would say that I revere Dr. Mahathir all along, but that does not mean that I would agree with his opinion in all matters. Without Dr. Mahathir, Malaysia would not be at where we are now. He has been very visionary, and perhaps he has envisioned something that we don't understand ourselves.

the same goes here. neither do i will agree with e'thing he has done,including putting someone in jail.but i do find find positives vibes through this,just like i've explained as above.

illegal immigrants are costing m'sia billions of ringgit.that's not just the crux here.like i said above.

[Thirdshifter]

I was unlucky enough to actually bump into this guy at KLCC last week. He, o nthe other hand was lucky that i didnt notice him until he was well in his Car. Damn it!


i dont think whoever you mentioned here gave a freaking shit about you. even i wont give a shit to e'ass who hated me.do u think that person u mentioned would? hell no.embrace urself,pls.


TRUST ME,IF U THINK DR.M IS A JUNK,whatever his policies are,were and will be will give u loopholes to further called him a junk. regardless of how well,smart,genious the plans are,you'll hate/make fun of them just becoz they came out from a mouth of someone u look down at.

First of all, you need to cheer up. I don't hate Mr. M, He's like an Idol.. but in a very evilish way but i still don't hate they guy. He's my favourite bad guy.. how about that? I don't think i've made fun of everything he said or done. He is obviously a very intelligent person, and most of the developements during his era was genious.


company like Intel,penang has moved to China.

No they haven't (link: http://adtimes.nstp.com.my/jobstory/2001/aug3.htm ).. but wouldn't really make a difference if they do, it's just another high-tech sweat shop.

one has to wonder why outsourcing happened in the 1st place?

Most of the time, it happens when the manufacturer wants to reduce cost of production.

one has to wonder why on earth malaysian will hire the indonesian workers to work in the prouction lines?

The only labour intensive businesses i could think of is the Nanas (pineapple) industry. I takes a lot of Human power for these kind of industries. I think Malaysians could not fill in the labour power needed.


. This will REDUCE THE BILLIONS OF RINGGIT THE GOV SPENT ON THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS,to curb them,to send them home,to catch them and yada yada yada.

What about the billions of Ringgit we saved? I mean 3/4 of Kuala lumpur was built by these under-paid workers. 1/3 of the 6-7 year old in KL was raised by these under paid Maids. I think instead of losing money.. Malaysia actually saved money. We owe them a big Thank you.

[el_empty]

Without Dr. Mahathir, Malaysia would not be at where we are now. He has been very visionary, and perhaps he has envisioned something that we don't understand ourselves.

ya he's a cool dude but i can't agree with you on this. throughout his reigh, he suppressed every challenge there was, meaning we do not know, and will never know, if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him. in fact the first thing he did with the primeministerhood was to curtail all possibilities of challenge against him.

[youngyew]

...we do not know, and will never know, if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him.
We never knew if Edison never lived, there would be someone out there who might have invented even longer-lasting bulbs or energy saving fluorescent light. Still, that never deterred us from thanking Edison for his invention.

[topdog]

fact is he is the matrix.

[el_empty]

...we do not know, and will never know, if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him.
We never knew if Edison never lived, there would be someone out there who might have invented even longer-lasting bulbs or energy saving fluorescent light. Still, that never deterred us from thanking Edison for his invention.

edison did not put his challengers into jail

[digimushu]

...we do not know, and will never know, if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him.
We never knew if Edison never lived, there would be someone out there who might have invented even longer-lasting bulbs or energy saving fluorescent light. Still, that never deterred us from thanking Edison for his invention.

Edison was not as great a man as he is portrayed. He may have created the light bulb but he spent the rest of his life trying to discredit the man who created the alternating current, Nikolai Tesla to promote the DC system.

[youngyew]

Edison was not as great a man as he is portrayed. He may have created the light bulb but he spent the rest of his life trying to discredit the man who created the alternating current, Nikolai Tesla to promote the DC system.
The same goes to Sir Isaac Newton. He spent his entire life discrediting Robert Hooke.

edison did not put his challengers into jail
:P First off, I am not Mahathir's fan. (Do I really need to say this so that I am on a better position to say some sane words?) There are always two sides on everything. You give credit where credit is due, and give discredit ur a** when discredit is due. When I make a comparison between Dr M and Edison, I was not trying to judge their personality or virtue.

I was trying to say that just because Dr M jailed someone doesn't mean that we should take all the prosperous development for granted. We argue or demonstrate when he jails someone, but we cheer for the development over the 20 years. Ergo, the argument "we never knew if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him" can't apply to discredit him. While this argument holds water in its own right, we can't deny his own portion of compliments that he deserved.

[youngyew]

Without Dr. Mahathir, Malaysia would not be at where we are now.
With the risk of digressing, this is very possibly a logically fallacious statement.

..."Next we'll try Hypothesis Contrary to Fact."

"Sounds yummy," was Polly's reaction.

"Listen: If Madame Curie had not happened to leave a photographic plate in a drawer with a chunk of pitchblende, the world today would not know about radium."

"True, true," said Polly, nodding her head "Did you see the movie? Oh, it just knocked me out. That Walter Pidgeon is so dreamy. I mean he fractures me."

"If you can forget Mr. Pidgeon for a moment," I said coldly, "I would like to point out that statement is a fallacy. Maybe Madame Curie would have discovered radium at some later date. Maybe somebody else would have discovered it. Maybe any number of things would have happened. You can't start with a hypothesis that is not true and then draw any supportable conclusions from it."
Quoted from Love is a fallacy (http://users3.ev1.net/~rooftopyawp/loveisafallacy.html)

(very interesting story and enlightening exposure of fallacies of logic)

[el_empty]

Ergo, the argument "we never knew if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him" can't apply to discredit him. While this argument holds water in its own right, we can't deny his own portion of compliments that he deserved.

yeap. it cannot be used to discredit him and nobody is trying to. but the argument is that he bubblewraps himself from potential challengers and opposition.

When I make a comparison between Dr M and Edison, I was not trying to judge their personality or virtue.

didn't say you were. again the problem is not in who invented the bulb. the problem is in mahathir clamping down on those against his bulb.


this is a very interesting disc on mahathirism. but we probably should get back to his worldy ideas of outsourcing

[youngyew]

Ergo, the argument "we never knew if there was actually someone out there who might be better than him" can't apply to discredit him. While this argument holds water in its own right, we can't deny his own portion of compliments that he deserved.

yeap. it cannot be used to discredit him and nobody is trying to. but the argument is that he bubblewraps himself from potential challengers and opposition.
It all started when I took your "if mahathir never became PM" as an argument to discredit him. Now I understand you didn't. Okay. :lol: I agree with the remainder of arguments. But it's all history. I wonder why people do not start digging his "bad stuff", even now when he has already retired. Maybe people treasure his contribution more than his "dictatorship", or was it because people all live under intimidation?

[el_empty]

definitely intimidation.

also his heroic contributions are quite ingrained in our peers. remember the idolatory passages we have to read about our infallible prime ministers in the textbooks?

also i was thinking more abt this issue. if we reallly want to put a spin to it, is there a way we lease land in indonesia, and use their land and labor for low tech jobs like agriculture. that's outsourcing yes?

[__earth]

definitely intimidation.

also his heroic contributions are quite ingrained in our peers. remember the idolatory passages we have to read about our infallible prime ministers in the textbooks?

also i was thinking more abt this issue. if we reallly want to put a spin to it, is there a way we lease land in indonesia, and use their land and labor for low tech jobs like agriculture. that's outsourcing yes?

big malaysian firms like sime darby and such, if im not mistaken, have already done that. in fact, they have been accused of indirectly endorsing the clearing of land in Indon through burning.

[el_empty]

hm.. well at the risk of sounding like a jerk, if we have to, i'd rather clear their land than our own.

i suppose that's up to the indonesian authorities. there's always the option of buying over their existing plantations. send our own farmers to become expatriate managers there :wink: