Difference between further math and math

[windrunner]

Can anyone tell me the difference between those two, i do not quite comprehend the syllabus of those 2 subjects, it would be wonderful if anyone would be able to tell the difference. (besides the former being harder that is.)


Have anyone chose subjects (A level) that he/she wanted instead of the ones given in packages?

God , i love Bio, why won't furmath and bio coexist, grrrrr...

Deepest gratitude.

[gal_flower]

Hi~

I'm not sure about A levels in Malaysia but I assume it's not too much different from A levels in Singapore which I'm more familiar with. Further Math, of course, has gotta be harder than Math. Or should I say, Further Math covers more topics and probably goes more in depth. In Singapore, the first few months (or is it a year) of Further Math is to cover all the topics that are covered in a normal Math class for 2 years. After that, Further Math will cover other topics which Math will not cover. Some things like calculus. Usually, people who take Further Math have not problems with Math. Because obviously, if they can handle Further Math, Math is nothing. Hope that's useful.

For me, I chose Bio/Physics/Chem/Math. I didn't think I was good enough for Further Math/Math...haha....

[windrunner]

Thanks for that info.

I wonder if anyone has ever taken bio/phy/chem/ furmath for their subject combination, no college seem to have such a combination as far as i know, or maybe those who actually take furmath as above have to study themselves or something??

Any advice?

[gal_flower]

Well, I guess you'll have to be crazy to try it but maybe they ARE ppl out there who has done this. Anyone else has anything to say?

[ElansarGelmir]

Thanks for that info.

I wonder if anyone has ever taken bio/phy/chem/ furmath for their subject combination, no college seem to have such a combination as far as i know, or maybe those who actually take furmath as above have to study themselves or something??

Any advice?

wah... dude, relax...

Bio is a killer... F math is an assassin. Instead of taking both Fmath and Bio, why don't you take more S papers instead? And do more community work... Or socialize... Life is not only about books! Immerse urself in some sports activities...

[EricFu]

Well, for me, Further Mathematics is much more interesting. You learn to see differently in Further Mathematics. Since you want to know them more, I think it is helpful to scrutinize both syllabi to note their differentia.

PURE MATHEMATICS
01. Quadratics
02. Functions
03. Coordinate Geometry
04. Circular Measure
05. Trigonometry
06. Vectors
07. Series
08. Differentiation
09. Integration
10. Algebra
11. Logarithmic and Exponential Functions
12. Numerical Solution of Functions
13. Differential Equation
14. Complex Numbers
15. Statistics and Probability
16. Mechanics

NB: For Mechanics, it consists of branches like FOrces and Equilibrium, Hooke's Law, Projectile Motion, Circular Motion and etc.


FURTHER MATHEMATICS
01. Polynomials and Rational Functions
02. Polar Coordinates
03. Summation of Series
04. Mathematical Induction
05. Calculus
06. Differential Equation
07. Complex Numbers
08. Vectors
09. Matrices and Linear Spaces
10. Mechanics
11. Statistics

NB: For Mechanics, more core Physics are covered, e.g. Rotational Motion, Simple Harmonic Motion and etc. For Statistics, stuff like chi-squared test are also included.

I hope this will help.

[DecentMerson]

Thanks for that info.

I wonder if anyone has ever taken bio/phy/chem/ furmath for their subject combination, no college seem to have such a combination as far as i know, or maybe those who actually take furmath as above have to study themselves or something??

Any advice?

wah... dude, relax...

Bio is a killer... F math is an assassin. Instead of taking both Fmath and Bio, why don't you take more S papers instead? And do more community work... Or socialize... Life is not only about books! Immerse urself in some sports activities...

hey dude...(refering to shermern)... how can u simply assume that windrunner is taking A-level at the Little Red Dot??? on ppl on the Little Red Dot are taking S papers... ok...

anyway... I took a double Maths (Further Maths & Core Maths)double Sciences combination (Physics and Chem)... too bad, i can't really tell u the big difference... other than one is more in-depth than the other... like for integration, Further Maths has more ways of integrating... and more proving questions... and more syllabus... which Core Math does not cover.... (linear algebra... vectors... and a lot more...) my knowledge on this is really limited becoz i escaped from Asean half way thru...(8 months into it)...

In Singapore, double maths students normally learn all the Core Maths syllabus and then concentrate on Further Maths syllabus... while in Malaysia..(my friends in Taylor told me that) students learn both Core Math and Further Math together... not sure which is better or wat... just to point out the differences...

basically, the Further Math questions are not really much tougher... just require much more thinking... and a lot of proving questions...

actually, they are a lot of FurtherMath students out there...(i mean in Recom)... JOHN DOE... where are u???

[ElansarGelmir]

I dunno, dude (voonseng). Well, something equivalent to S paper... or something else... in fact, it's kinda hard to score in Bio (unless u are taking June paper) or you are someone who reads Bio day in day out...

And dudes (voonseng and eric, and chang yang, and math lovers), I enrolled in a math class that i should not have: Linear Algebra... I should have taken Multivariable calculus instead... just need ur advice. To what extent does Linear Algebra help in Physics or statistics compared to multivariable?

[DecentMerson]

hahaha... good good... i'm taking Linear Algebra next sem too...(many of us in U of M are taking Linear Algebra next sem...)

i'm not sure about helping in physics... but i do know that Linear Algebra helps a lot in Linear Algebra.... hahahah... enough of crapping...

it helps a great deal in Stats....

while Multivariable Calculus helps Physics...

[ElansarGelmir]

i'm not sure about helping in physics... but i do know that Linear Algebra helps a lot in Linear Algebra.... hahahah... enough of crapping...


Kaki tempang... tak boleh jalan ni...

[DecentMerson]

i'm not sure about helping in physics... but i do know that Linear Algebra helps a lot in Linear Algebra.... hahahah... enough of crapping...


Kaki tempang... tak boleh jalan ni...


hey... i think both of us are kinda digressing... stop it.. ok???
bad example for new Recommers...

Sorry... Moderators...

[ElansarGelmir]

i'm not sure about helping in physics... but i do know that Linear Algebra helps a lot in Linear Algebra.... hahahah... enough of crapping...


Kaki tempang... tak boleh jalan ni...


hey... i think both of us are kinda digressing... stop it.. ok???
bad example for new Recommers...

Sorry... Moderators...

Digression is indispensable for a relaxed environment in a forum...

Ok ok [hands up!]. I'm leaving now

[windrunner]

I jog every morning , although i am socially inept ( or selectively sociable as i see it : :roll: )

The thing is i LOVE proving things, my teacher finds me annoying to ask for proves, yes i spent 2 days on trying to prove a^2+b^2=c^2 before giving up, darn it, only to see it proven in such a simple manner.

And are you sure bio is a killer?? I have not dwell in it just yet, i do not have a text book for it.

Do most universities want furmath or math for the sciences? Physics in particular, or not. (i love them all)

One more question, would it be possible to take up biomedical (or something similiar) course at U if I did not choose biology for A level?

HELP!

[pandaboy]

I jog every morning , although i am socially inept ( or selectively sociable as i see it : :roll: )

The thing is i LOVE proving things, my teacher finds me annoying to ask for proves, yes i spent 2 days on trying to prove a^2+b^2=c^2 before giving up, darn it, only to see it proven in such a simple manner.

And are you sure bio is a killer?? I have not dwell in it just yet, i do not have a text book for it.

Do most universities want furmath or math for the sciences? Physics in particular, or not. (i love them all)

One more question, would it be possible to take up biomedical (or something similiar) course at U if I did not choose biology for A level?

HELP!

Actually Bio seems to be not important at all, I dont know why. The requirements to study Biochemistry are England is only Chemistry and Maths (no need of Bio, my friend got in without Bio)...the requirements to study medicine in IMU are Chemistry and Maths too I guess..(again, no Biology)... About Further Maths, I think it'll be an added advantage if you are planning to do Engineering, but then again, I dont think it's a pre-requisite either.

[ElansarGelmir]

in fact, physics is more important than Bio in medicine. Some university (or all? I dunno) in India requires Physics but not Bio for admission. No harm learning lots of things, but you don't have to take A Levels of that subject to learn them. Just take what u need to get into a university.

[pandaboy]

in fact, physics is more important than Bio in medicine. Some university (or all? I dunno) in India requires Physics but not Bio for admission. No harm learning lots of things, but you don't have to take A Levels of that subject to learn them. Just take what u need to get into a university.

Physics is more important for medicine? Are you sure? I dont think so, I have a friend studying medicine in India now and I dont think he has done Physics in Alevels. He did Sociology (or maybe Econs? I cant remember) with Bio, Chemistry and Maths.
Yeah..agree about the learning part. You can always do self-learning if you're really interested and hardworking..unlike me..lol...(im darn lazy~) :lol:

[ElansarGelmir]

well, i mean some unis in India... My friends from India told me that. My friends who are going to India told me that... and my Math TA right now who's from India told me that.

[gal_flower]

It really has come to the point that bio is no longer the pre-requisite to study medicine. So choose wisely, windrunner. It is totally insane to want to do both bio and further math. Especially for that love of math, I'm sure you know what to do....=)

ps: u would have fit right in here in U of chicago with that love of proving! arrrrgh!

[ElansarGelmir]

Can someone help me to prove that the integral from 1 to X of [(e^-2t) + 1]^1/2, limit x to infinity exist?

I calculated that it leads to some constant (might not be right), but my professor argues that it should go to infinity.

[yaya]

basically, further maths is an extension of maths, ie. you can't do further maths if you don't do maths

in a typical a-level course the way it's set out is you take the required modules for a-level maths and then go on to take more modules to get an a-level in further maths

i know that in the UK it is possible to take triple maths, ie. take 3 times the number of maths modules required for maths a-level

so to answer someone's question on whether or not you can take chem/bio/physics/further maths, well technically yes, if you do maths first and then fulfill the requirements for further maths

just throwing in my 2 cents, having done further maths at a-level i think it's a very good subject to do IF you like maths, are sufficiently able in maths and are willing to work hard. having a good base in maths helps you in so many aspects of higher education: engineering, all sciences, and even economics... there's a LOT of mathematics to be done at university level economics, even if you prefer the less mathematical side of it, you will still cover a lot of maths to fulfill the basic requirements

although if you are not so inclined toward mathematics then...

[windrunner]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I guess i would have to dissapoint my BIO teacher. :cry:

I am so used to 12 subjects it feels kind of sad to take so little and still learn so much .

[ElansarGelmir]

I am so used to 12 subjects it feels kind of sad to take so little and still learn so much .

u sound like a friend of mine. Heard of Teh Kung Hwa?

[pandaboy]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I guess i would have to dissapoint my BIO teacher. :cry:

I am so used to 12 subjects it feels kind of sad to take so little and still learn so much .

12 subs? wow...
I kinda feel the same way too, but u cant take so many subjects as you move ahead... it'll be getting more and more specialised...
If you continue talking many subjects in Alevels, u'll be in my situation...not knowing what course to apply for... :cry:

[DecentMerson]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I guess i would have to dissapoint my BIO teacher. :cry:

I am so used to 12 subjects it feels kind of sad to take so little and still learn so much .

12 subs? wow...
I kinda feel the same way too, but u cant take so many subjects as you move ahead... it'll be getting more and more specialised...
If you continue talking many subjects in Alevels, u'll be in my situation...not knowing what course to apply for... :cry:

i agree... jack of all trade... master of none...

instead of knowing a bit of everything... better to everything of something... that's the reason specialization yields better output... but it won't be as interesting as non-specialization...

anyway... A-levels is still 4-5 subjects... wait til u graduate... u will be like narrowing urself to a certain specialize field of a certain course...

[zAiTsEv]

u sound like a friend of mine. Heard of Teh Kung Hwa?

teh kung hwa? what kind of tea is that? :lol:

[bunny]

i'm taking physics now.. further maths was a great help... without further maths, I think i would have more trouble taking honors physics courses.. physics is a lot of maths once u get to uni level. So, if u are thinking of doing physics, i strongly recommend further maths. I have enjoyed it and the training is good. :)

Singapore math C have reduced its syllabus by a fair bit in 2000. So it is quite different now and by just doing math C, you may have to work harder in ur uni.

if u like proving stuff, haha u might like physics. All we do everyday is to prove that a chicken is a sphere.. haha j/k we do a lot of proofs and derivations. However, we are not as hard core as the math majors and we don't work from very basic axioms and consider all abstract possibilities. we are only interested in solutions which are physically possible.

[chenchow]

In fact, taking courses diversely in universities are not bad at all. I would say that it depends on what kind of future you are trying to look at.

If you specialize into a small area and know as much as you could in that field, that would allow you to really be an expert in that field. That would be very essential for those with research in mind or other jobs that require speciliazation.

And if you like to have a macro view of everything and look at system level, then diverse is better in my opinion. I have had the opportunities to take courses as diverse as I wish, from any field that I am interested in, I have taken some courses and studying in US would enable you to do so. Frankly, to get a major in a US university, like Cornell, say Electrical and Computer Engineering, you only need to take 12 courses, and the rest is up to you. So, if you enjoy taking courses, say a course in HR, a course in psychology, one in international relations, one in law, one in finance, one in wine tasting, one in accounting, one in debate, one in entrepreneurship, one in macroecon, etc.... you can definitely do so. I have taken every single one of those plus many more, despite majoring in electrical and computer engineering and my workload is still similar with others.

[pandaboy]

But Chen Chow, in the end, u'll end up specialising in E&E as well right? The extra units are useful for knowledge though, but do you learn it in depth? Seems like US system is much more interesting... In England, we can choose 40cp for our first and second year..in our third year, we study only about our course... :?

[quasar]

Start asking yourself some questions before deciding.

1) Do you need scholarships in the future to study in the UK or SG?
If the answer is yes, choose the subject you are good at. E.g. Opt for Bio instead of F. Maths, if you are good at biology.

Reason: If you happen to choose a subject you don’t like/ not good at, then the probability of getting str8 As is not that high. If you are not arming yourself with 4 Advanced Level (not Advanced Subsidiary) A grades, it is highly unlikely to get a scholarship. If u are in a JC in SG, study at least 4 Advance level subjects plus 2 S papers for a good chance of getting scholarships in the future.

2) What do you wanna study in the future?
If you want 2 do Engineering, take Further Maths. Further Maths is not a perquisite for engineering courses in the UK, but it is always helpful when u are studying in the university. Biology is not something important. Biology is not a perquisite for many courses in the UK. However, you should try to check the requirements of your preferred course (Biomedical). Try www.ucas.com (if u plan 2 go UK).

Personal experience: Imperial, durham, warwick, bath and york in the UK gave me unconditional offers (engineering course) even though I didn’t study Future Maths. My combination was PHY/ CHEM/ BIO/ MATHS.

3) Where are u studying now?
Taylors college in KL provides more subjects combination than any other colleges in KL (correct me if am wrong). You will see exciting combinations like this, MATHS/ FM/ PHY/ ECONS. This caters the need for those wanting to do Actuaries or combined courses (eg Engineering and Economics in Oxford or in Australia). If you studying in some places like TAR College, the packages are fixed, not very flexible. Please consult your college for more information on subject combination.

4) Which is your A-Level examination board?
There 2 main boards in Malaysia. The board in SG is SG-Cambridge Board.

Taylors, TAR College – Cambridge International Exams.
Help, TAFE, ATC – Edexel Examination (London Board)
Sunway – not sure.

Different examination boards have different specs in their A-Level subjects. U can download the syllabi from the websites of your board to see what u will study in the future 1.5 or 2 yrs. Ask your lecturer which component papers in both mathematics you will be sitting in the A-Level Exam, bcos u will not take up all component papers in both maths.

4) Which country are you going after A-Level?
If going to US, you don’t really have to worry on subject combination. This is because you will rely on your SAT scores instead of your A-Level grades. The Maths component in SAT1 and Maths IIC in SAT2 are easier than A Level Maths.

If going Germany to do engineering, better study FM.

Extra: Choose CAREFULLY + think twice, because I don’t want to see ppl go into the wrong combination like me. BIO from Cambridge doesn’t stress on your memory on biology but your analytical skills.

[windrunner]

Nope, never heard of Teh Kung Hwa. BTW i included III9.

I wonder why Biology is not important for medical, anyone??
The society needs more Jack of All Trades.

Engineering is my blood....(family tradition )
but sciences are my life..
yet sciences can't live without math

[youngyew]

We need more multi-dimensional people, but not jack of all trades. We have forwards, midfielders and defenders in soccer, and total football, a concept where any player can be employed in any position, turned out to be less effective.

What I mean by being multi-dimensional is... you can be an engineer but you should know the signs and symptoms of shock; you can be an engineer but you should still know into a certain depth about the difference between gross profit and revenue. But I still subscribe to the view that our society can only move forward with more specialization. If you still remember our Form 4 history, civilization started when there was a system of belief, systematic organization and specialization.

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes, which can be made, in a very narrow field.

Niels Bohr

[youngyew]

No braggards are allowed in ReCom. 8)

I wonder why Biology is not important for medical, anyone??

All science is either physics or stamp collecting.

Ernest Rutherford
When you study medicine, it is not just WHAT the organs, systems, diseases are, but HOW and WHY. You use a portion of your biology knowledge to know what, but to know deeper into HOW and WHY, the core of medical knowledge still lies within a deep understanding of chemistry and physics.

For your information, Australian universities also do not require biology as a core subject to apply for medicine. I myself did not take up biology, instead I took specialist maths, which lives in my blood. As a part of the truth, I admit that having lost touch with biology has really estranged myself from "living things", however, I believe it doesn't really put me in disadvantage when I am going to enrol in medical faculty. My sisters who are doctors themselves told me that medicine programmes are like a fresh journey of learning, we all start anew.