Interviews/Offers to UK med school, sept 2005 intake

[SHuLy]

anyone here has gone through any of the interviews for 2004/2005? perhaps you could share your experience.
and also, if anyone has been made any offers....

[cooldog]

Which uni did you apply to?
I think right now, only all of Oxbridge applicants have already been interviewed. As for the rest of the uni applicants, some have been interviewed and some are still waiting to hear any news from the uni

[SHuLy]

i applied to edinburgh, aberdeen, cardiff and birmingham. what about you?

have you got any tips to share for the interview?

[cooldog]

I applied for medicine to the UK last year, but, didn't manage to secure a place. I got IMU instead. H'm, tips for interview? Make sure you read up on the course and the uni you are applying to. Be confident and know what you are talking about. Be truthful. UK interviews are well known for its "trapping" questions. So, unless you are truthful, then it's hard to get trap. But, if you do want to cook up some story, make sure you know what you are talking about. And also, they would love to hear about your work experience is you have any...

I heard that Cambridge has sent out conditional offers to its applicants already. A friend of mine said that someone in her college got a conditional offer of 3E's! Wow... !! Applicants for Sheffield has also being interviewed. Some of the applicants for Aberdeen has also being interviewed. Birmingham has also sent out their interview offers already. I am not sure about the rest... Have you heard from your unis? Good luck in your preparations for the interviews...

[SHuLy]

i did not have a good experience for the aberdeen interview. *sigh*

yes, birmingham has sent out replies and i have yet to hear of any from them *sob*.

sheffield has started their interview sessions?! really? i didn't hear of that. but i didn't apply for that uni though. who are the ones being interviewed, as in, from which college?

i know that nottingham,manchester,liverpool,southampton already had /are having their interview sessions now.

[pandaboy]

I applied for medicine to the UK last year, but, didn't manage to secure a place. I got IMU instead. H'm, tips for interview? Make sure you read up on the course and the uni you are applying to. Be confident and know what you are talking about. Be truthful. UK interviews are well known for its "trapping" questions. So, unless you are truthful, then it's hard to get trap. But, if you do want to cook up some story, make sure you know what you are talking about. And also, they would love to hear about your work experience is you have any...

I heard that Cambridge has sent out conditional offers to its applicants already. A friend of mine said that someone in her college got a conditional offer of 3E's! Wow... !! Applicants for Sheffield has also being interviewed. Some of the applicants for Aberdeen has also being interviewed. Birmingham has also sent out their interview offers already. I am not sure about the rest... Have you heard from your unis? Good luck in your preparations for the interviews...

What? 3E's for Cambridge? I think it must be a typo...Or did I misinterpret your statement?

[SHuLy]

no, i think means that cambridge wants that student and one can also interpret it as "unconditional offer".

it's not a typo if i am not mistaken as there are cases like these...exceptional huh?! =)

[cooldog]

Yes... it's not a typo. Someone got a conditional offer of 3E's to study medicine at Cambridge this year. It's not the first time Cambridge offered 3 or 4E's. It sure is like an unconditional offer...

Sheffield's interview for medicine was held on the 11th of January, while for dentistry was held on the 12th of January. I am not very sure for which college. I think should be for everyone in Malaysia who applied to Sheffield? It seems like there are more JPA students applying to the UK compared to those privately funded students...

SHuLy wrote:
birmingham has sent out replies and i have yet to hear of any from them *sob*.


Birmingham's interview season runs until 4th of March 2005. So, I think you shouldn't worry too much... keep your fingers cross if you havent receive an invitation. You might get it in February.

[SHuLy]

another batch of students have been shortlisted by birmingham. i think my college applicants obtained the replies last thursday. i was shortlisted too. =) interview runs till 11th march-latest.

but i am having some problems about the air flight and accomodation. cooldog, do you know anyone going next month? all of the applicants in my class were shortlisted. so was sunway college i think//and i heard quite a numer from KMYS got it too.

well, if they are doing medicine in UK, i think most of those going would probably be scholars due to the exchange rate. private students would probably apply for australia, russia or india. but as for other fields, i think is an equal number of students, both privately funded or on scholarship-but i think there are more privately funded students...eg: literature, economics,law, banking etc.

Hey! That's great news! Good for you!

Ok, hope you do well in that interview...

[cooldog]

Whoops... sorry guys... that annonymous person was me. Something wrong with computer. Didn't sign in properly.

Anyway, ShuLy, I don't know of anyone going to the UK next month. A lot of them have received their replies earlier and flew there for their interviews already. Sorry, I couldn't help... Is this new batch who got their late replies all JPA students?

Regarding the airtickets, maybe you can try going online to check. www.malaysiaairlines.com.my. I heard that Brunei Airlines is cheaper. Unfortunately, I don't know what's the website.

Ok, once again, all the best in your interviews...

[SHuLy]

thanks cooldog.

i don't think it is all JPA scholars who are going only now. it's just that our application got there late. i blame it on the college. you see, for the ucas form, the earlier you send it, the earlier it is that they are able to process and send it to the respective universities. for those whose colleges placed an early dateline, they were able to receive replies earlier, and it seems to me as though they have an advantage over those who sent in later.

[SHuLy]

cardiff interview is going on end of this month and the first week of march if i am not mistaken.

My interview will be on the 28th of Feb. My friends would be going on the 4th of March.

but this is the teleconferencing kinda interview cuz they have already came to m'sia earlier this year.....

darn college again for sending application to UCAS late!

[huipen]

Hi ya. I am a new member and found this website when searching through the web. I am SPM leaver and plan to do medicine in UK. Currently, i plan to specialize in paediatrics in United Kingdom but I am kind of blur about it. What should I do after finishing MBBS? Must I sit for another exam, or must I obtain any official letter from the Malaysian government to do my specialization in United Kingdom? Is it harder to enter the specialisation course in UK with a local degree as compared to a degree obtained from 5 years in Austarlia or UK? Thanks a lot for your help!!

[SHuLy]

gotten my offer from brim. :D
but :( cuz no news from the other 3...YET!

anyone here is doing medicine in Birm/Cardiff/Edinburgh?? need advice....

[cooldog]

Congrats Shuly! You must have done very well in the interview. It's hard to get into any UK uni nowadays.... it's so competitive and there are so few places.

What did they give you for your conditional offer? 2A's for A Level? A friend of mine got a conditional offer of 2A's from Bham but he didn't meet the requirements in the A2 exam... so, he went to Ireland in the end.

I think Leeds have sent out offers already. I know of someone who got a conditional offer from Leeds already. Sheffield has also sent out their offers... the rest should be coming anytime now.... It's almost April... keep your fingers crossed ppl....

[SHuLy]

haha. well, thanks cooldog!!

yeah, now i really do hope that i can do well in the A2 finals. yupp, the requirement are AAB. although birm is not my top choice, but it's better than nothing. and i have heard quite a few good reviews on birmingham... :wink:

i did go thru the interview for irish unis too...hehe, but that was just as a back up plan. say, are irish unis better than UK ones for medicine??? and...err...i don't even know their conditional offer!! isit ABB? i had too much things going on when the interview was done. so i couldn't do much research. besides that, their prospectuses wasn't very helpful.

yeah, leeds, southampton, birm, manchester, liverpool, newcastle (a few), notts results are out....
edin's rejections are out too i think...cardiff is slow..but i'm waiting in anticipation! :D

[cooldog]

Whoa... backup plan eh? That's a good one... some people do actually put those Irish unis as their backup... like that friend of mine. He got only 1A for A Level, so he got rejected by Bham and went to Ireland. What's your first choice uni?

[SHuLy]

well, it's not actually 'back up' solely. i do regard highly of the medical education in ireland. it is much sought after....and i am still regarding ireland as one of my choice if i can get a place. results will be out end of this week or early next week! =) wish me luck! haha.

my first choice uni?? well, i haven't gotten all offers yet...wait till i'm "wanted" by them can i only then make a choice- i.e "want" them in return!! hahaha. now, i am in no position to make any demands...

btw, where and what are you currently studyin cooldog?

[cooldog]

I am currently studying medicine (first semester) in IMU, Malaysia... hopefully I get to twin with the universities in the UK. I applied to the UK last year for medicine but couldn't pass the interview. But, I think I learnt a lot from those failures... IMU's interview is much, much easier compared to those UK's one (I am repeating myself).

And, guess what? My sister has also applied to the UK for medicine for the September 2005 intake... she's got a conditional offer from Leeds and haven't heard anything from Aberdeen.

Are you applying to Australia too? Yeps!!! Good luck and keep all fingers crossed!!!

[SHuLy]

(deleted)

[cooldog]

Hey... I think we are getting somewhat out of topic. Email or PM me?

First year medic is ok... not that stressful yet. Most of things that we are learning now is what we learnt from A Levels Biology. So, for those who didn't take biology in A Level will be a bit on the disadvantage side. First semester is only the foundation. We don't go in-depth yet. The timetable is quite relaxing... 2 lectures a day... but, a lot to read.... AAARGH... :?

[Belgarion]

Hi...

I am not too sure how Recom works coz I am kind of a new member...Anyway, has anyone heard from Aberdeen regarding their rejections or offers? I went for the Nov interview but I haven't heard from them....

[SHuLy]

hey there belgarion,

i don't think anyone has heard from aberdeen. none that i know of..i have yet to hear from them either...

(the wait is killing me!)

offer: Birmingham AAB

[Belgarion]

Hi there Shuly..

Yeah...the wait is killing me too cuz I want Aberdeen very badly!! So far I got a conditional offer from Leeds. AAB. Aberdeen is better than Leeds and I wanna go there!!

[SHuLy]

which are the other universities that you have applied to Belgarion?

wow..want aberdeen badly? well, no doubt it is one of the top unis in UK for medicine, but the fact that it's really up north makes it quite an 'undesirable' place for some of my friends..

I did very, very badly in my Birmingham interview. So, I was rejected. :cry: I think the reason is because I gave my very best during my interview with Aberdeen. Furthermore, I did my attachment with the hospital in my hometown last year. So, I could no longer remember my attachment in detail. Anyway, Leeds gave me a conditional offer so I should be happy with it. Many of my friends in Concorde college did not get any offers at all.
Sheffield rejected me without an interview!! :x Was your interview with Aberdeen in the afternoon or morning? Mine was in the afternoon, 3rd of November. We might have met during the interview.

[Belgarion]

Really sorry, the guest was me. I forgot to log in.

[SHuLy]

hey! Edinburgh results are OUT!!!

hehehehehehe :D :D :D :D :D

i've got the conditional offer (sadly not unconditional offer! haha, i wish!) - AAB (chem and bio)


Birm: AAB (chem)
Edinburgh: AAB (chem and bio)

[pandaboy]

hey! Edinburgh results are OUT!!!

hehehehehehe :D :D :D :D :D

i've got the conditional offer (sadly not unconditional offer! haha, i wish!) - AAB (chem and bio)


Birm: AAB (chem)
Edinburgh: AAB (chem and bio)

Congratulations......Shuly. Btw, are u still studying Alevels? If you are, then of course you wont get unconditional offer until the Alevels results are out ... :P

[Belgarion]

Congrates Shuly!! It's usually hard to get into Edinburgh cuz of the tough competition. Even my ex-college senior who is currently studying medicine in Cambridge was rejected by Edinburgh.

[SHuLy]

thankssss!!

yeah pandaboy, i am still doing my A Level. :lol: aren't there cases whereby students from A levels can get unconditional offer (question mark -my keyboard cacat)

haha..well i guess different unis want different students. i am wondering why edinburgh have a policy of not interviewing their candidates...and as silly as it may sound, i take that as a negative aspect of edin uni.

i know 3 (including me) from my class got it. one more not sure.

[pandaboy]

Where did you hear about someone getting an unconditional offer even before finishing alevels? I don't think anyone can managed to get an unconditional offer for medicine in UK before finishing Alevels....the number of places for international students are so limited...doubt the universities will do something like that.

[SHuLy]

hello.

to those who applied for aberdeen, aberdeen's results are out if i am not mistaken...at least the rejections are! haha. i was unsuccessful.. it was no surprise as i did badly in the interview..! :D

anyway, good luck to those who applied!

[Belgarion]

I was unsuccessful too. Too bad cuz I thought I did well in the interview. :cry: Anyway, Leeds is my ONLY choice left. At least now I can focus on one uni.

[SHuLy]

cardiff results are out.

me torn between edinburgh,birmingham and cardiff. any advice from fellow recommers here??
i'm more towards birm and cardiff.

What are your criteria for choosing universities? If you have an idea of what you want then it's easier for us to comment.
Edinburgh has prestige, the other two not quite as much. Birmingham - the year sizes are huge and (personal view only) I don't really have that great an impression of the place. I think wherever you go you will have a great time if you can adapt and find your niche. Might be worth having a look at www.medschoolguide.co.uk/forum for some applicants' views of UK medical schools.
Best wishes.

[SHuLy]

yes, i'm in the forum. there's another one - www.admissionsforum.co.uk (both of which i find very poorly coordinated, especially the latter, compared to recom - kudos to recom anchors!)

cardiff is actually higher ranked than edinburgh though edinburgh is more prestigious, especially to the older generation.

i'm most probably gonna try my luck on either cardiff or edinburgh.

well, what i want is not purely based on the course itself, but rather, i am the type of person who thrives on the environment of the place. i would like a condusive environment to study and PLAY at the same time.

what i don't like about edinburgh is the probability of them choosing based on academic requirements. of course, extracurricular counts too, but somehow, i think academic is their priority.
as for cardiff, i'm not sure how they choose, but it gives me an impression that they choose overall qualities of a student. bad point about cardiff is the distance of the medic campus and the extensive travelling during clinical years.

both does dissection. birm does prosection. guest, do you think that this aspect is important in the course?

Shuly - don't bother with rankings, they are subjective and vary according to which league table you look at. They don't even have the same criteria! I would choose a uni where a) you think the course suits you and b) you like the place.
I wouldn't worry too much about the selection criteria. Because of the nature of the applicants you're going to get pretty much the same type of people in any medical school as you'd find in a top class in your school now - there'll always be some kiasus, some dossers, and a whole lot of average Joes and Janes, who are all very clever and talented. Plus you're only SPECULATING on Edinburgh's admissions criteria! I suspect wherever you go you'll find your niche and a core group of friends, so I wouldn't worry about the people.
Both Edinburgh and Cardiff are nice places, so I've been told (have friends there, still to visit them though). There's certainly lots to do and see in Edinburgh.
Don't worry about travelling during clinicals - every school uses peripheral hospitals so there's no escaping it. The proportion of time you spend outside the main uni city may differ though according to which medical school you're at e.g. I think Newcastle and Manchester students spend a bit more time outside compared to say, Oxford. You do learn more in peripheral hospitals than in teaching hospitals (what a misnomer), because they tend to be less busy, people have more time for you, and generally they tend to be friendlier, which kind of makes up for the travelling. Most people come home at weekends anyway.
As for prosections vs. dissection - my anatomical knowledge is hardly extensive, but I personally think it would have been worse if I'd gone to a school which used prosections. I guess I didn't like anatomy quite as much as other subjects though, so it might just be due to my own shortcomings. However I do think that it makes things stick more easily if you've done some hands-on work, especially if you're one of those 'visual learners'. Prosections don't quite cut it. We did have prosections but they were as an aid to dissection.
I wonder if I should register, since I've posted quite a few times now in as many days... hmm... Anyway, best of luck deciding, let us know where you choose to go in the end. Any more questions, just ask.

[SHuLy]

i am doing a bit of speculation, but i think i have too or else i won't be able to make up my mind. haha. but it's also based on some statistics (to few to be rendered as reliable thus making it a speculation).

yeah, i have heard of people saying that edinburgh is a magnificent city - i have yet to hear of anything less than that! but...i'm still uncomfortable with the uni. seems "too prestigious" for me. haha! i wanna be plain jane and enjoy studying medic than having to compete with students with brains spilling out of their heads to have a prestigious uni to my credit (sigh...but it is very very attactive to be educated in edinburgh and an honour being selected there!!!) i'm very undecided. help**!

thanks for the view on dissection and prosection!

[Steppe]

Guest,

I would like to hear your opinions of medical course in Leeds Uni, Sheffield Uni, Aberdeen Uni and Warwick Uni. What do you think of these Uni?

Please do register. Your information has been very informative and interesting. It helps the 'aspiring' students to have a better, realistic and perspective look at what this course is actually all about.

[PJKru]

Do it in qmw lah. I can show you around lah. Get you house lah. you pay me lah. okay lah.

Shuly - you'd be surprised at some of the people who get into 'prestigious' unis! Some of the laziest people I've know are from medical schools which ooze prestige. Not everyone who gets in is as bright as people think they are either, so disabuse yourself of this myth:) One way of looking at it is that a lot of talented, able people are put off applying to 'prestigious' unis. And in any case, as I've said before, the applicant pool for medicine is generally homogenous in terms of potential, so you'll meet basically the same type of people in any medical school here. Incidentally, Edinburgh rejected me but took some people with terrible people skills - must be a result of their no-interview policy. Go figure. I had already got 2 other offers though, so maybe it was just economic thinking on their part.
Frankly, I'd go where deep down you want to go, without worrying about the people etc. I wonder if this is a Malaysian trait, but when I got an offer for a premier secondary school I had doubts about the competition, went anyway and beat most people. Same for preclinicals. I'm now too worn out though, and seem to spend more time doing things other than work so just content plodding along at present:wink: You only get one chance to attend medical school (two at most if you're at Oxbridge/London/St Andrews/Edinburgh) - don't look back later and think, 'what if'. I guess you already know all about how to choose an insurance choice so won't bother with that here.

Steppe - I'm not sure about Leeds, and I don't think Warwick has a medical school of its own (they have a joint graduate entry course with Leicester, but the normal 5-year undergrad course is wholly Leicester's, if things haven't changed). I know one or two people who qualified at Aberdeen, and in fact applied there myself. It seems like a really good course on paper, very structured and with a smallish year size. Their SSM programme seems quite cool too. It was a bit too far north for me though...
Sheffield - didn't really like the place when I went for a visit. Rather too industrial for my liking. The last TQA didn't rank the teaching there too highly either (bear in mind that this was way back in 1997 I think!). Having said that, even the TQA is flawed, although perhaps to a certain extent less than that of the newspaper league tables. Actually - something that just came to mind - have a look at the GMC website, go to Education and read the reports on individual medical schools. They're a bit dated, but might be informative. I applied there only because their grade requirements were low (didn't get an offer, wasn't bothered as I couldn't care less by the time the interview came round). On hindsight, I should have applied to somewhere I really wanted to go to and not wasted that space, hence my earlier advice.

PJKru - you sound like an ang moh trying to sound Malaysian :D Too many lahs in the wrong places! Anyway, while I think the East End is really interesting, you might like to enlighten people, especially females, on the situation there. Brilliant place in terms of multiculturalism though, and Barts and the Royal London are very prestigious hospitals. Still, it's a PBL course, and I probably wouldn't have been able to cope with it (I'm lazy, me...).

[SHuLy]

thank you very much for all the views and comments. i have decided which uni i'm gonna choose now that i know more about studying medicine and the unis that have offered me places.. :wink: i'm most probably going for cardiff. i am attracted to the fact that they have really great sport facilities, nice sceneries, friendly people...and perhaps, making me more confident in my choice is it's rankings. i like the overall package that it can offer...so now gotta keep my fingers crossed, pray hard, and study even harder...(God helps those who help themselves afterall..!) !!!

[yeeyen]

OK, this is kinda off the present discussion, but i thought i'd ask anyway. I got accepted to med school, UCL, and they asked me to get a police check done. Well, I went to the local police post, and they said that they had no idea what to do and that I should go to the headquarters in KL. well, i'm not from KL. haha, kinda obvious. ANyway, can someone please give me advice on this?

Yeeyen - that actually applies more to home students. It's just to confirm that they have no convictions especially with regard to children. Essentially whether you have a police record or not.
I would contact the admissions office to explain your situation, and ask them whether you need to submit anything.
I certainly didn't have to when I started uni.

Shuly - I'm sure you'll have a great time in Cardiff. Certainly the Welsh are quite friendly people - I should know, I live with one:)
When you get settled in let me know and I will come round for a look-see;) All the best.

[Steppe]

Guest,

Based on your opinions, which Unis should a new aspiring student apply?

London areas are too expensive (the fees are more expensive even) and the areas considered are mid-lands and Northern part.

It is getting more competitive and especially so to a non-JPA sponsoring student. I have noticed that the JPA sponsored students are taking up most of the available medical places (the advantage of being financially guaranteed).

Steppe - tuition fees vary quite little actually, about a couple of thousand quid each way, but I guess that's a lot of money if you don't have that much to start with. Living expenses, now, that's another thing...
I would personally apply where you really want to go (see earlier post), where the course structure you think would suit you, of course taking financial considerations into accuont if applicable. I didn't even consider London as the living costs would be way beyond my financial capabilities. Also quite a lot of them do 6 year courses rather than 5, and there isn't really a campus feel to London. It has its attractions though...
Entry to ALL medical schools is competitive, so that really isn't an issue. Re JPA students - I don't think there are that many now being sent to the UK. Certainly when I entered uni there weren't that many... but then again JPA didn't sponsor too many people that year. You'd be surprised to know that every year a few JPA scholars end up with no offers! I think if you are good enough then they will take you, although of course JPA scholars may get some brownie points just for being 'scholars'.
Anyway, if you want somewhere (relatively) cheap - the Midlands and the North of England (possibly Scotland too - but I'm not too sure about conditions north of the border, have a look at their websites) are good bets. If you have alumni links, some unis will give you a small discount on fees. As far as cost of living goes, Oxbridge are quite expensive - Cambridge prices for certain things are almost approximately the same as London's, for example. The colleges do subsidise your accomodation though, and if you get into Cambridge then there's always the Commonwealth Trust to help you out. The Midlands is slightly more boring though, and certainly not as well-known back home...but those are only minor points. You'll have fun wherever you go, as long as you know how to find it:)
You might want to consider applying for a JPA interest-free loan when you come over. It's fairly good value I think.
What stage are you at?

[Steppe]

Guest,

Thanks for your information so far. You have been very helpful and I really appreciate your advice.

Being a non-JPA student, the financial consideration is the most important criteria in my selection of the Uni. I have to avoid London areas, Cambridge etc.

For example, Cambridge tuition fee is about GBP 14,000+. For Uni like Sheffield, Leeds, Birmingham etc, in the mid-lands, the fee is about GBP 10,750+ - 11,000. The difference of the tuition fees between Cambridge and those of mid-lands Uni is sufficient to pay for my 40 weeks of accommodation costs in the Uni in the mid-lands.

When the budget is tight, all these matter.

My selection criteria - financial aspect, hence midlands Uni whereby it is not as cold as Scotland, 5 years course (cannot afford another year), etc.

The entry to the medical schools is so competitive. My elder sister did not get a place in UK last year and she is now in IMU doing the medical twinning option.

There are quite a lot of JPA students doing medical, dentistry in UK especially last 2 years. The places available are so limited and this is open to other students from Singapore. China etc. One friend went for a dentistry interview in KL this year. Out of the 12 students, 11 are JPA students and she was the only non-JPA. Imagine that!

Definitely, the JPA scholars may get some brownie points just for being 'scholars' with the government to back them.

My parents recommended mid-lands because they graduated from there and they were familiar with those areas.

Do you think that the alumni links may help? I have got the only conditional offer from one of the Uni and that was where one of my parent graduated. I will try to ask for a small discount on fees later after A levels results in Aug.

I went to UK in Feb this year for interview and I visited quite a few Uni. I have visited Cambridge and it is a nice place.

Honestly speaking, I am glad that I got a conditional offer although not a prestigious Uni. There are friends who do their A levels in UK and they did not get any offer. Take a step at a time first. Now, I have to make the grades in this coming A levels exams.

Despite my 10 A1 results in SPM 2003, I did not get the JPA (too many 10 A1s that year). My elder sister did not get the JPA as well for her SPM 2002 despite 9 A1s and that year, all 10 A1s got JPA. We simply ran out of luck! My younger sister got 10 A1s for her SPM 2004, waiting for the JPA outcome.

I am very keen to apply for JPA loan later. The high exchange rate is a great concern to my parents.

Do you work during term time and summer holidays? Is it possible to work? How is the study workload like? Simply not feasible to work during term time?

Hmm... my second post in a day...
Actually, if you manage to get into Cambridge you're quite certain to get a Commonwealth Trust bursary (they can be really substantial - like covering all your fees). But I do agree their tuition fees are slightly steeper because of the College fee, otherwise they'd be just the same as any other provincial uni. Cambridge is a great place to go for uni - it's certainly quite different from most other places.
By the way you'd be surprised at which parts of the UK are cold - it's not only Scotland which gets really cold. Cambridge does as well because of the winds (said to be from Siberia!).
If you hadn't already applied I would have told you that in terms of value for money Nottingham offers quite a good deal - get a BMedSci and the BMBS in 5 years. If you want to work here a BMedSci/BSc/BA gives you quite a few CV points and thus an advantage over other applicants.
I don't think you can really compare the dentistry interviews to medical ones, purely because there are so few dental schools and quite a few JPA dental scholars. Medicine will have a more even spread. Besides there might be other Malaysians being interviews on other days - a snapshot cannot be really indicative of the real situation.
Which Midlands uni are you going to? I quite like the midlands, even if they're a bit dull - relativelylow-cost, and the university cities are really lively!
Re discounts - some unis will give you a discount if you pay fees upfront, and some will give a further discount if your parents/sibs went there. Their policies should be on their websites.
I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get JPA, but think of it as a blessing in disguise in that you won't have to serve 10 years in MoH hospitals. Someone I know failed to get JPA, but managed to win some other (more competitive, I might add) scholarships and is now happily doing medicine. There is always money on offer e.g. bursaries that unis give etc., you just need to find out how you get your hands on them. May not be much, but every little helps.
Just out of interest - if money is a concern why did you apply to study here (probably the most expensive place to do medicine as an undergrad)? Australia and New Zealand would have been much cheaper I think (and they have better weather too).
I'm fortunate in that I get enough money so don't have to work. I'm fairly thrifty though. Quite a lot of people I know work as nursing assistants (very flexible, and very good pay). I get my side-income in other ways - and which don't require too much effort:) You will find it hard to work if your course is quite intensive e.g. during clinicals. Some unis e.g. Cambridge (probably Oxford too I should imagine)absolutely forbids people to work during term-time. Personally I would avoid working during term if possible. It's certainly possible to work during the summer. I did some jobs (back home though - I need to see the family at least once a year lest they forget me:)), but that was more to kill time during the long holidays. Academic workload - to be very honest - is heavy. But I guess you already know that. It's possible to do lots of other things besides academic work if you can manage it though - do get involved with things, it will make uni life much more enjoyable. Get some paid work if you have to, but don't let it detract you from your academic work and your social life, is all I can say.
Gosh I've rambled on like an old man - better stop now, but feel free to ask more questions if you need more answers.

[SHuLy]

There are quite a lot of JPA students doing medical, dentistry in UK especially last 2 years. The places available are so limited and this is open to other students from Singapore. China etc. One friend went for a dentistry interview in KL this year. Out of the 12 students, 11 are JPA students and she was the only non-JPA. Imagine that!

Definitely, the JPA scholars may get some brownie points just for being 'scholars' with the government to back them.



the numbers are NOT increasing. It's the opposite. In fact, this year, JPA no longer offers scholarships for medicine in UK for the full course. i'm not sure about the twinning programme.
the interviews could have been held in batches. JPA students might have sent in their application together and thus shortlisted together for the interview. there could be other sessions involving private students solely. for certain unis, there might be brownie points, but not all. the unis have nothing to lose as long as you are able to prove them that you can pay! so, evidently, they will eventually choose the creme de la creme for the best interest of the university.

thank you guest. :D where are you at currently?

YEE YEN,
If i understand your question correctly, it should be the certificate of good conduct. I'm currently applying. :) they are to be sent to the consular division at the ministry of foreign affairs malaysia.
do ask you college's office for assistance if you need any help - you are a paying student! heheh.. anyway, if you wish to find out more, you can go to www.kln.gov.my. the website will explain what you need to send in and where to send it.

Shuly - Where did you hear that JPA is not offering scholarships to do the full UK medical course any more? I thought their advert in the papers (and on their website) said otherwise. But really, a UK education is getting so expensive nowadays, maybe they should send people somewhere cheaper, like say, Ireland.
Re brownie points - generally people will think you are good if you have the title 'scholar' so that first impression on paper may well swing a decision especially if it's a close one. I have to say that in the context of Malaysia they shouldn't really pay too much heed to whether someone's a scholar or not, because of the lack of meritocracy in selecting scholarship recipients (let's be honest).
As for where I am - that would be telling, wouldn't it:)

[Steppe]

I am not sure of this Cambridge Commonwealth Trust bursary thing. It is still an unknown and there may be quite a number of other brighter students competing for it. Just simply cannot plan/hope around that as the risk may be too high.

I heard that this year the winter was cold. Just after my UK interview visit, I heard that there was snow even in Cambridge in early March and the Siberian wind. Just missed seeing the snow, have never seen snow before!.

I did not realise the advantage of this Nottingham Uni degree of BMedSci and the BMBS in 5 years. Thanks for the information.

What sort of scholarship did your friend get? There seems to be hardly any scholarship for medical course. It is true that the 10 years bond can be 'taxing'. However, being a non-JPA sponsored student, the road ahead is not easy to walk as well due to tight budget.

Sometimes, I have been thinking perhaps I should just go for an engineering course, accountancy etc. However, I have a look at the economics books that my cousin has and I do not think I can survive that. I do not like physics that much and I think I will have problem doing all those engineering course projects. I have done the hospital attachments and I liked it. I suppose this is only a tip of the iceberg and as what some other aspiring students have said, this is a risk to take but at least I feel more comfortable/prepared to take up this risk/challenge.

Australia is not cheap. Take Melbourne Uni for example, the 2005 tuition cost for medical is AUD 46,000. Take the exchange rate of 1 AUD = RM 3. This is equivalent to RM 138,000 per year. The whole course of 6 years tuition costs will cost RM 828,000. This will be about the same as London Uni or cheaper than London. There are other additional costs like health insurance, union fees etc. in Australia.

For one UK midlands Uni, first and second year tuition fee is about GBP 11,000 each and the 3 clinical years are of GBP 21,000 each. Take the exchange rate of GBP 1 = RM 7.20. The whole 5 years course tuition cost will be about RM 612,000.

The fees will be subjected to an annual increment of about 3-5% in both countries. The accommodation and food costs are about the same in these overseas countries.

Entry to Australia is tough also. In NZ, one has to study medical science first year and then sit for the medical qualifying entry test (similar to UK BMAT?) to get into medical. The places available are limited as well. At least in UK, if you get a place in medical school, you will do medical. In NZ, there is still this unknown of whether can get into medical or not after first year medical science.

Well, this is only what I have found out. I may still be wrong. Anyway, UK is still quite a good place to go.

Is there any Christian Chinese mission group or that sort of Christian student activity?

Actually there was snow even in mid-April... only for about 10 minutes though. It's only nice when there's enough for it to settle, otherwise it's just a grey, slushy mush (which doesn't compensate for the cold!).
Re CCT bursaries - almost everyone will qualify if you're poor enough and from the Commonwealth (I've heard of JPA scholars getting those too...). Getting into Cambridge is a different story though. The uni is also keen to get the best brains and certainly of all the UK unis has the most funds at its disposal to support students in need. The Gates scholarships (for clinical medicine, among others) are certainly very generous.
I would advise you to find out about all the UK schools, perhaps crossing the London ones out beforehand, then making an informed choice (I assume you haven't investigated too thoroughly, since you didn't know about Nottingham - which by the way also offers a discount to Malaysians in their first year, although I'm not sure if that's still the case). Interestingly,
Scholarships available - Petronas, Jardine (only tenable in certain Oxford and Cambridge colleges though), Hong Leong, UEM (not too sure how one goes about getting the last two though).
Re admission to Oz unis - I'm not sure how difficult it is, but some people I know, who aren't exactly the sharpest nails in the box got places (one of them to Melbourne). They did meet the entry criteria though. Hmm.
Re fees - bearing in mind that clinical and preclinical bands are different (so the 3% increase will not apply to the base rate for clinical in the year you apply because the base rates change for each year and by the time you reach year 3 you will be charged the new clinical base rate as a 'new student', as it were), the fees may change quite drastically once you enter year 3. At least one uni charges the same fees for all 5 years, because of the integrated nature of the course. I don't really know about accommodation and food costs in the Antipodes, but are you looking at the bottom or middle end of the scale? There are people who survive on very very cheap food (?1 for 20 sausages kind of thing) and live in very very cheap digs (usually in quite grotty areas) - this includes some home students whose parents can't/won't support them.
I should think there are Chinese Christian groups here (depends where you ultimately end up I suppose). Some friends of mine are heavily into the whole evangelical Christian thing, so such groups must exist. You should be able to find something to suit you if you end up at a Russell Group uni (group of supposedly prestigious unis which almost all unis with medical schools belong to).
I suppose a lot of the above won't be applicable since you say you've already got an offer - which uni is it?

Forgot to add - you might be able to get an exemption from the BSc year of a 6-year course if you're an international student. UCL certainly allows this, although in Oxford and Cambridge the BA year is compulsory. I would do it though, if you can, as it is a great learning experience, and less importantly adds value to your CV.

[SHuLy]

yes. there are JPA students who get to cambridge and obtain the scholarship/bursary...

if they are getting, JPA should deduct their allowence. it saves the govt A WHOLE LOT of money and increases opportunity for others who cannot get a scholarship.

... but how is JPA to know, is the question :)

[SHuLy]

... but how is JPA to know, is the question :)

sigh....JPA should be more efficient. it is quite easy for them to find out if they wanted to. they are the ones who is paying cambridge directly. students do not get the tuition fees money.

about JPA not sending students over to UK - It is from my junior who went for the interview. he said that the places for medicine mentioned by the officer did not include UK (unless his hearing was bad!)..

IRELAND?! gosh, the fees in ireland cost more than certain unis in UK.

[yeeyen]

YEE YEN,
If i understand your question correctly, it should be the certificate of good conduct. I'm currently applying. they are to be sent to the consular division at the ministry of foreign affairs malaysia.
do ask you college's office for assistance if you need any help - you are a paying student! [/quote]

first, thanks a lot to... guest? and shuly for your help. I emailed the admin office, and they said that i still needed one, but i can give it a month after i start. which basically means that i need to get it now anyway. And to shuly, thanks too i'll check up with the mfa. I was told to go to BUkit aman, myself. I can't ask my college's help, though, cause i'm not in college anymore (haha, one of those bummers) and i went to college in singapore, so they wouldn't know anything either, plus i wasn't a paying student, so haha.... But thanks a lot anyway.

And on the topic of fees and all, well, i did some calculations, and i figure that a london uni will cost you about 1.3 to 1.4 mil? and melbourne is about 1.1 to 1.2. just to let you know.

Thanks again, for your help peeps.

Re CCT bursaries - they don't only cover fees, and money is paid to the students, so it's not that hard for JPA to be kept in the dark. Plus JPA's attitude is hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil:) Those JPA scholars have also cleverly manipulated the system (won't say how though). Interestingly, Singapore PSDs scholars get lots of money from CCT but are bonded to their government (some deal they struck with the managers, doesn't seem fair to me at all).

If I'm not mistaken JPA will still send a small number of students over here. Why there should be such a double standard (because all medical scholars have 10-year bonds regardless of place of study) I don't know. Ours not to question why, ours but to do and die, I suppose...

[Steppe]

Guest,

I heard that for 2004 Cambridge Sept intake, there were 11 JPA students out of the 12 Malaysians medical students and they got the best college. Is it true?

Based on that sort of statistics, the chance for a non-JPA students is so low. There are also quite a number of JPA students in other Uni. I may have made a generalisation here. well......

I have a feeling that you are in Cambridge, right?

I know of 2 students who did twinning with Sheffield and Ireland (Penang MC) who had managed to go back to work in Sheffield and Ireland for their housemanship respectively last year. This is really a surprise, very exceptional indeed ( as these students did their 2 years pre-clinicals in overseas in Sheffield and Ireland respectively and the 3 years clinicals back home here in Malaysia.

How is the chance/situation of staying back to do the housemanship in UK now? What about the postgraduate training? Any chance? Please share what you have observed/find out.

Certainly not true. 11 JPA scholars in total in Cambridge might be more like it.
As for which college is the best - that is a subjective assessment. Most people will tell you that their college is the best! Besides, it depends what weight you put on certain criteria.
Best not to speculate on where I am - let's just say I try to be as clued-up as possible, and have quite a few friends in various places:)
Re housejobs - in the UK housejobs are not only reserved for their own graduates. Everyone who meets the entry criteria can apply. Most housejobs are given out based on a regional matching scheme, or other process usually coordinated by the respective deanery to UK grads (there are proposals for a national rather than regional system but this won't take effect till much later I should think), but I know some Indian house officers (as in they are of Indian nationality). Foreign grads can apply to matching schemes too, and there are always a few jobs which aren't allocated as part of the matching process. So no, you can come here to do housejobs as long as you satisfy their requirements (although I'm sure most houseplants will tell you not to come here and go somewhere better!).
If you graduate from here you are almost certain to get a housejob in the UK.
Postgrad training - there is something called Modernising Medical Careers which is a shakeup of training (thanks or no thanks, as you may see fit, to the Labour government). It will come into place this August, so certain things are still in a state of flux. Personally I think the whole MMC thing hasn't been thoroughly thought through, and I fear it won't be good for training (so say a lot of consultants).
I have to say that certain specialties are very competitive, and you have to be good not only academically and clinically, but also non-clinically to stand a chance - there are always a few bottlenecks where demand exceeds supply. Anything extra you can offer e.g. BScs, papers in scientific journals, higher degrees, research experience, good references will all help. To do your entire training here will take on average a minimum of 10 years after graduation. And that's if you manage to secure yourself places early. As I said earlier MMC is trying to change that, but whether it's effective or not is too early to tell. (I suspect there will just be a postponement of the bottleneck till a later stage in training).
Bit too early for an A-level student to start worrying about jobs really, but good to know you want find things out early - it certainly helps you be more prepared.

[Steppe]

Guest,

Thanks for the information.

I know I am digressing from the topic but I do not know how to reach you except through here.

I know it is still too early to talk about jobs. However, it is nice to know and be aware of potential opportunity of what next .... Situation may have changed a few years down the road.

In my hospital assignment last year, I met a bone specialist (ortho...), graduated and trained in UK. He is serving his 3 years compulsory government service. He is travelling here and there to perform his operations in these towns. I have to say that he is really good. I was very impressed by his skills. He even came along with his own whole bag of shining stainless steel? tools-set/instruments, nicely packed and strapped in order, for the operations.

I also met one UK graduate doctor who was temporarily working here because his wife is a Malaysian. It is very obvious that his skills shine (more organised) when compared to the locals and even the foreign Burmese and Pakistani doctors (employed under government contract).

I think we have to give credit to the exposure and training in overseas.

What are the competitive specialities now?

Agree re perception of quality of Burmese and Pakistani docs, but there are good ones too though, quite a number of trainee surgeons I've met here are from the subcontinent.
Competitive specialties are for example paeds, obs and gynae (because numbers have been cut), surgery, cardiology. See deanery websites for competition details (I think the London deanery publishes quite good statistics). If you can get a copy, the book 'So you want to be a brain surgeon' may be informative.

[Steppe]

Guest,

My younger sister is thinking of applying for UK medical in this coming Sept for 2006 Sept intake.

Which Unis would you recommend, say from the midlands area and why? I would like to hear and tap on your observation, experience, exposure over there in UK etc. (now that you have eaten more salt than any one of us here, hehehe.......).

I would advise against only considering the Midlands 1) because there are only 3 schools there 2) the Midlands aren't the only affordable places in the UK 3) the course she chooses has to fit her learning style e.g. PBL doesn't suit everyone 4) she has to like where she's going - some people may not like very large groups/big cities/small cities/universities without campuses etc. and to some environment is important.

She might want to consider the north of England, Wales and some of the Scottish schools. Newcastle run a good medical course (rated 24/24 in the last TQA, friends there seem to be happy with it) and is quite an affordable city, for example (quite pretty too). I've also heard from someone working in one of the Leicester teaching hospitals that Leicester students seem to get less exposure as they spend lots of time on only a few things (this only anecdotal though).

Interestingly, given that you say money is a problem, would not doing a twinning programme with IMU be slightly cheaper? If she doesn't mind, perhaps she might want to consider going to the same medical school you will be attending this year (which one - you might have mentioned it earlier, I've probably forgotten) if that is financially beneficial.

I think she should go through all the prospectuses and course details (definitely something worth investing a few hours in given that she's going to spend 5-6 years at medical school - I can't stand those people who can't be bothered to take the initiative but expect others to choose for them!), choose a few she likes, and then try to find out more about those before making her final choices. I'm happy to answer any questions on specific unis (to the best of my ability) once she's reached the shortlisting stage.

[Steppe]

During my last interview visit in Birmingham, I visited my friend from my hometown. She and a few friends from China, Singapore are staying together. They spend about GBP 5 - 10 per week on food. Room is about GBP 65 per week inclusive of bills. I have friends in Sheffield etc, and these girls are really surviving on GBP 10 per week on food.

In IMU, the course fees for 2.5 years is about the same as that of UK Uni around midlands outside London, Cambridge. So, if the student goes to twin with UK Uni later, the only savings are the difference of the room charges in UK and Malaysia for the 2.5 years. Based on GBP 10 per week on food, it is about the same costs on food in KL.

So, the savings are not really that significant. Of course, if compared to London, the savings will be more significant. However, the 5 years exposure in UK is better than the 3 years exposure of twinning.

You are right. We just realise that Cardiff Uni costs are cheaper than that of midlands. I am not sure of the living costs. During our last visit, we observed that living costs in smaller places like Cambridge, etc. are more expensive. In Birmingham, in the open market, things are cheaper than that of super stores.

It looks like that PBL is being integrated in most UK uni now. Liverpool is more heavily leaned towards PBL, integrated and no such distinction of pre-clinical and clinical. The best traditional style is still in Cambridge but we do not want to apply. We do not belong to that 'smart cream' category and do not want to lose 1 chance in application.

I have friends who studied A levels in UK and they did not manage to get a place even. They had to take a gap year and reapplied the second year (they even had results like 3 A 1 B). Based on their experiences, my elder sister's experience, the limited places available to international students, the competition with JPA students, the fact of own sponsorship, we somehow more or less generalise that it is better to apply just for those 'non-league' Uni. Even that e.g. Sheffield Uni does not even bother to call for interview, hence wasting 1 application/chance.

Even then, for one particular Uni, I thought the interview went very well but still could not secure a place. That is why I say it is very tough to get a place.

Based on your thinking and opinion, let say if given a chance to apply now, which Unis would you apply? This is purely your thinking. We just want to hear your opinions. You may be giving some insight thoughts that we have not considered or unaware of.

Also, based on your clinical exposure, do you have problem with those local British slangs, etc. (Yorkshire, Welsh, Scottish etc.)? do you think this can be a problem in understanding, hence jeopardising the diagnosis ?

I wouldn't advise surviving on only 10 quid's worth of food per week, what more 5 (and in an urban environment too - do they only eat Iceland sausages?). You could really scrimp and save, but it's not worth it in the long run, because you really have to have decent food, more so when you hit clinicals and use more energy. I spend about 20 pounds each week, and I'm not a spendthrift. (I do have to shop at Sainsbury's though, but even if you shop at Asda you'd probably save 5 pounds at the most.) I typically have rice and 2 dishes for dinner, and sandwiches for lunch (of course if there's free food for lunch you'll see me there:)). If you want to stinge, don't do it by cutting back your food intake.
As for rents, it depends on the location of your flat/house really. Some people choose to live in really slummy parts of town where the rent is only 35 quid per week... and if you choose to live in the East End of London I can guarantee you will easily find a house with rents the same as that for one in an OK area of a Midlands town. It's hard to generalise really, but anywhere between 55-65 pounds a week, excluding bills (usually only gas and electricity) is average for a Midlands city. As for small places being more expensive - that's an over-generalisation too. If you say the South-East, or the South Coast, or even East Anglia, is a bit more expensive that would be more believable. This is because the south is historically much more wealthy.
Cambridge is actually not that bad, because of the added value - although I suppose this is much more marked if you're not doing medicine. If you don't count the college fees, the University composition fees are actually about the same as other provincial universities'. Bear in mind though that you get one-on-one (or one tutor to a very small group, say 2-3) teaching about 4 times a week, which you will never get anywhere else except Oxford. And of course there is also the rather otherworldly experience that is Oxbridge... I think this is a really strong point that Oxbridge has - being force-fed stuff in lecture halls with 300 other people isn't quite the same. Also, because Oxbridge terms are so short you're only at uni for 24 weeks a year minimum, so lots of vacation time to work.
I wouldn't say that the traditional disciplinary method is the best - I think it depends largely on the individual. Research has shown no appreciable difference in the performance of house officers from schools with different teaching methods (then again, house officers are just glorified secretaries anyway, you don't need to know very much medicine at all!).
As for being the creme de la creme, I can assure you that I've met some people in Cambridge who would definitely not have been admitted had I been the admissions tutor for their college! It's largely a confidence thing, but I would apply if you think you're good enough. There is a sizeable group of Malaysians here, and not all are JPA scholars.
I actually don't think the competition is that bad - it is keen, but not insurmountable. Some people I know, who have really atrocious English got offers (I wonder how they got through the interviews). One of them got 2 Ds at A -level, and a few others didn't make their grade conditions. Perhaps Malaysian colleges are a bit lenient on the predicted grades, I don't know. As for what you call 'non-league' unis, the equivalent to the Ivy League here is called the Russell Group, and almost every established university with a medical school is in it, save Leicester. So, you're more or less forced to pick a 'league' uni:)
That said, you have to realise that the majority of people who get into med school are generally 'achievers' (heck, some people are planning their careers while at med school!). Unless you were prepared adequately and given the opportunities to do stuff, it is likely that your application will be less outstanding, possibly due to no fault of your own. Some of the colleges and schools back home provide the opportunities for such things, some don't. While you can't entirely blame your environment e.g. you can get involved with things off your own bat, it does play a part in determining whether you get a place or not. Some of the home students play 2 instruments, have 4 A grades, did the Duke of Edinburgh Award to Gold level, play rugby and cricket for their school/county, have volunteered for years at their local hospital/nursing home etc. Some of the international students are equally good as well. Even some of the crap students I mentioned earlier had quite a few of these desirable things. You need to look good on paper as well as appear good at interview (I think you will find this a recurring theme if you choose to work here).
As for unis I would apply to if I had to go through the whole process again (I don't think I'd want to, once is enough thank you!), in no particular order: Edinburgh, Nottingham, Oxford or Cambridge, perhaps one of the London unis like Imperial or GKT, Aberdeen. But that's just me - I prefer non-PBL, and I like old (or old enough), established places. I didn't apply to some of those places though - I was young and somewhat insecure then. But hey, you only need ONE offer anyway, so why not apply if you're good? A friend of mine only had one offer - from Cambridge to boot. I knew I was intelligent, perhaps good enough to get in, but it was the 'perhaps' in the sentence that put me off - I needed it to be 'definitely', but have since come to realise that a ship that doesn't want to leave harbour will always remain in port.
To come to your last point - it's accent, not slang. Slang is short for 'street language' :) And no, no problems so far. I've never worked in places with strong and thick regional accents though. In any case there are at least 26 different native accents in the UK alone - and if you add those of the foreign doctors and the immigrant population, even more. If you face some unfamiliar local terms e.g. Yorkshire/some parts of the Midlands - 'tabs' are ears, the context is usually enough to understand what they're talking about. If not - ask! You'll find that asking for clarification is part of good communication anyway. You might actually find after some time that your accent will change a little (if not significantly), especially if you mix with non-Malaysians a fair bit... (I would encourage you not to only mix with Malaysians, as a lot of Malaysian students here tend to do - if you want to do that, you'd be better off staying at home!)

[Steppe]

Thanks for the information.

I had been to the Birmingham open market and had bought a box of 8 big mangoes (from Canaries Island) for GBP 1 (I think on offer that day). I think the girls are eating OK. Vegetables like cauliflower cost about the same as here. Perhaps, being girls, they do not eat much. My dad brought me around to open markets, supermarkets etc. of the places that we visited, just to let me have a survey and a feel of how the living costs are like in UK, being briefed of what to shop, etc. etc. etc. (part of pre-uni training eh?).

I do agree that food is important and we need to eat well in order to keep fit and can study well.

As for room, my parents put a lot of emphasis on staying as near to campus or in campus as safety is a top priority (being a girl). Nothing is to be compromised for that.

As for cheaper rentals in the East End of London, the transportation cost will still cost a lot. Hence, all in all, it is still expensive.

I am not active in games apart from swimming. I have a Grade 8 in piano and is quite gifted in music in a certain sense. Hence, for curriculum, I lose out. In college, we did voluntary work in blind centre or orphanage once a week. Every aspiring medical student does that anyway. I suspect that the PS statement is not impressive enough - not too sure how impressive others can write as I have not seen any. Everybody seems so secretive about it!

Edinburgh clinical fees are expensive, about GBP 25,000+ in 2005(compared to others about GBP 20,000 - 21,000). Nottingham requires an A for both Chemistry and Biology, and a B for Maths or physics as entry requirement. Aberdeen rejected me despite the fact that the interview went well, must have been very competitive. Incidentally, Aberdeen has never offerred a place to my college before - don't know why.

Put it this way, we are eager to get a place within our financial means. In IMU, it is purely PBL. Hence, UK Uni will be definitely better than that. Students in IMU do not even have a choice. The choice of the 4 Unis is a headache. If one is not 'careful', one may end up not getting a place even. Finance is a concern as it is likely that 3 of us are going for medical.

Yeah, you are right. It is accent.

By the way, what is exactly being covered by the NHS medical for a student? Is the consultation free? I suppose, the student needs to pay for the medication. Are the medication expensive? What about hospital stay? Does the Uni has their own clinic to look after the students?

[pandaboy]

Steppe, my uni has it's own Student Health Services...where students can make appointments to consult GPs. Not sure about other uni though. Consultations are free of charge. Not sure about the medications fees.

Actually, it's more convenient to shop at supermarkets, especially as they are open till late. You'd be hard pressed to find a pasar type market in some places anyway, for example central Nottingham.
Distance to campus - agree it's convenient, however not all places near campuses or with large student populations are safe, bear in mind that a lot of crime happens in areas with large student populations as the pickings are richer. You'll hardly find a house with 4 stereo systems and 4 laptops outside of a student area, for instance. Also, a lot of students will want to save money and live in slightly less affluent parts of town. I think the best option would be to stay in halls for at least a year to get a feel for things and find compatible people to live with, then move out later. You'll almost certainly have to during clinicals anyway, as you'll be going on placements outside the centre and have different term dates.
Re the East End - transport won't be a problem if you're at Barts and the London, as the campus is in the East End itself (except for Barts Hospital, which is in the City). If you're not at B&L I don't think you'll be living there, especially as it's generally quite skanky.
Re co-curricular stuff - not really necessary to have sporting activities, if that's what you're getting at. You just need to show that you have some interests outside work, and that you're fairly keen on them (if you're very good that's a bonus). I didn't have a Grade 8 in music, and am not particularly gifted in anything. I did do quite a lot of stuff though. Personal statements - might be a good idea to have a look at your seniors'. Agree some people are quite kiasu, and that infects even the non-kiasus. MABECS and British Council might have some sample personal statements. We got a few samples from college when we were writing ours - some really horrible 'how not to write a personal statement' types, and some quite good ones.
I wouldn't worry about grade conditions. If you're Malaysian and have got an offer(s) you're almost certain to get straight As. Let's be honest, A levels are hardly difficult, especially these days when they're all modular/AS+A2.
Aberdeen wasn't really competitive in my time. Some of the really crap people got offers. Bear in mind that statistics one year may have an effect on applicants net year though, e.g. if a place is seen as less competitive, more people may apply next year. What college are you at, and how many people traditionally apply to Aberdeen? Re interviews, perceptions are sometimes misleading - I got a place from one school where I thought I'd totally messed up the interview... Plus a lot of interviews are quite subjective - I was on an admissions panel once, and apart from the really good and really bad candidates, it was really tough deciding who we wanted... How do you distinguish between lots of people who are essentially similar? (This problem, as you will see, carries on when you're job-hunting...)
Without wanting to appear dismissive, I think you worry a little too much about the competition. Admission to any one school is likely to be as competitive as admission to another (I suppose Oxbridge may be a little different as they get more than their fair share of the cream of the crop, but then fewer people apply to those places - roughly 4 for each place c.f. about 8-10 for other schools, so it sort of balances out). Most people who are reasonably good will get at least one offer, especially if they are Malaysian (as compared to, say, Hong Kong), have good communication skills and are reasonably academically able. Re PBL - a lot of schools now incorporate PBL into their curricula, the only difference is how much there is. I think it's to do with the trendiness of PBL, and as I said earlier, some people actually thrive on a PBL system (although I believe for the population in question it's likely to be a small number only). There are many ways of skinning a cat.
Re medical coverage - the NHS provides care free at the point of use based on need, not the ability to pay (thank you Nye Bevan!). Anyone who is here more than 6 months is eligible for free NHS care, so you will get the same rights as a Briton. Waiting lists and waiting times are a separate issue though... Universities usually have their own health centres, but you're free to register with any GP (you will have to register with one though). GPs here are under the NHS, so there are no fees involved. Hope that answers your question.

[Steppe]

What about the dress code in Uni medical school in your case? Are you allowed to wear jeans when you are not seeing patients, i.e going to lectures, seeing your tutor etc. In one uni prospectus, it stresses on formal office wear specifically, especially when seeing patients so as to have the professional look and gaining trust from patients. Hence, I am wondering, are medical students not allowed to wear 'informally' like jeans etc. and the girls are expected to wear dresses or blouses/skirts (suit type?) all the time? Naturally, at this stage, jeans etc are more comfortable to wear. Please share your experiences/observations.

Yes you can wear what you like when you're not seeing patients. Some people were wearing shorts in the summer!
There's more flexibility for girls than there is for guys anyway.

[Steppe]

I have placed a booking for accommodation in the campus self catering flats. There is no internet connection but I was told that there are computer resource centres around, some opening 24/7. There is internet connection if I go for accommodation outside campus, some included in the room charges and some at an extra charge.

From medical studies point of view, do you have to use a lot of the computer time? I was told by a friend that there would be a high chance that I would not be able to use msn etc. if I use the Uni computer resources. Is one allowed to plug the thimb drive in the computers in the Uni computer resource centres?

Regarding books, do you buy a few basics ones and which ones? Do you study a lot in library? Are you allowed to photostat especially if the lecturer recommends a chapter here and there (copyright law?)? I heard that some medical students buy books from Malaysia because it is cheaper here.

What are your views?

[SHuLy]

about PS...

i didn't go around showing my PS to my fellow classmates, i admit. but it's not really due to being kiasu or whatsoever. it's a personal thing that i'm not that comfortable to show to others. besides that, there might be some who will go around speaking of what you write, eg, "ooo...she/he's a top student..!!"

also, few people might use some of the ideas that you have incorporated into your PS to promote yourself, hence, losing the 'personal touch' when it is too 'commercialized'. others would just follow the gist of what you write (if it is good) and not make any effort to do enough exploring about themselves and what/how to write a good PS. thus, some might get into medic school not because they are truly sincere (uni admissions tutors claim that they can spot a sincere PS) but because they had modified a PS from a truly sincere person..so, those who don't show their PS might be doing some good to the medical profession! hehe, though u wouldn't agree that the PS is a good way to judge one's desire to be a doc...

guest, you mentioned earlier that if you could choose ur unis all over again, one of them is most probably to be edinburgh. may i know why. hehe, i chose cardiff over edin.

[yeeyen]

just on the subject of personal statements. I showed my personal statement to anyone who asked to see it, but I must admit not many did, actually. <grinz> I must be very clearly lacking in the 'example' aspect.

But to tell the truth, I think i must have seemed clearly uncomfortable with the idea, really. Because for me, what I wrote in my PS, while not a secret, was still very deeply personal. I put down on paper what I really really thought, and felt, so in a sense, it was like making a journal entry. In more than one way, cause i wrote mine at 3a.m. in the morning, haha.

Not trying to say that not everyone is kiasu, but just that there's more than one reason why people are uncomfortable with sharing. And just to share what was in my statement, I wrote about how initially, I didn't want to become a doctor, and what changed my mind. Haha, hard to copy. Maybe that's why no one wanted a look. Word spread that it was useless.

Oh, and I second the question on textbooks, and i'm wondering if someone can show me a list of texts used by UCL? <hopes fervently that a kind UCL senior will pass by> Oh, and how useful are secondhand books?

Re computers - how much you use it for formal course work depends to a large extent on the nature of your course. If it involves quite a lot of written work, or the need to look things up on the Net or in online journals then I guess having one would be beneficial, even better if the computer is connected to the university network as access to some journals, say, is restricted to users on the network as the University pays for it. You can definitely survive without owning one, though it may be a little inconvenient at times (try writing an essay in a crowded computer room!). Bottom line is - not strictly necessary, but helpful, depending on the demands of your course (and maybe your need for lots of MP3s, movies etc.!). If you're going home over the Christmas holidays it might be a good idea to see how you get on without one, and if you need it buy one from home. As for MSN, ICQ etc. some unis are quite relaxed about their usage, andif not there are web-based versions. (Going to lose any street cred I may have had - what is a thimb drive?)

Re books - I like having my own, so own quite a few (actually that's underestimating it). Definitely buy them from home, they are 60-50% cheaper in general. Quite a lot of people just depend on the library, but that might be a problem if the books are in high demand! I don't like studying in the library, but that's just me.
Copyright laws - yes they exist. You can photocopy one chapter according to the law, or a full article in a journal if I'm not mistaken. By the way, photocopying here is generally very expensive. Having said that, when I was a preclinical student I managed to find a copy shop that operates on principles similar to Malaysian ones, and at very low prices too :) They even had pre-photocopied copies of popular books to sell (very enterprising)!

[yeeyen]

I'm not sure whether i've said this before, but what the heck. thank you thank you and thank you again, for all the help. It's really been very nice of you, Guest. Sorry if the questions are bothersome, though. Still, I do have a few more if you have the time.

Do you have specific booklists for the course? And if so, when do people normally receive them? And exactly how did you bring the books over? I was thinking of sending mine by post, so, how much do you really need them in the first few months? Thanks.

Oh, and i think she meant thumb drive. You know the ones that use USB ports for mass storage. Must persuade my parents to buy me a 1 GB one before I leave. haha. Some how i don't think it'll work, but no harm...

You're very welcome, and it's my pleasure to be able to help.
Re booklists - yes almost all universities will have them. When I was about to start uni I got a fat little package from the medical school including, among other things, a booklist (interestingly, and quite scarily, one of the things we got on the very first day was a leaflet about our exams...). The booklist won't be very useful unless you can get some recommendations from current students, because they usually recommend more than one book per subject. I remember a lot of people ended up buying this really thick Biochemistry book that was really too detailed (but was in the booklist!) and was really just good as a glorified doorstop because they didn't consult their friends from the years above on which books were good.

I brought all my books over in my luggage (I once had 15 kilos of hand luggage because my check-in luggage was severely overweight... not a pleasant experience). It will only be economical to send big parcels by post if they go via surface mail which takes weeks, if not months, to arrive, so in terms of books maybe that's not too good an option. If you're a fairly conscientious type and not a procrastinator like myself, then you'll find that you'll need books fairly early on. By the way, a term only lasts 2-3 months in your preclinical years, so a few months is quite a long time in terms of university academic calendars.

Further damning evidence of my ignorance of things technological - I haven't heard of a thumb drive either! Damn, and I thought I was fairly up to date... having said that I'm reminded that the last time I thought so was in 2001... :)

Shuly, I forgot to answer your question. I would choose Edinburgh merely because it's old and in a nice city (I'm a sucker for things ancient, you could say - note this doesn't apply to potential candidates for romance! :) ). However, I've found out that PBL has got a stronger foothold there, so I might be convinced to change my mind... Cardiff (well, UWCM to be pedantic) is no bad choice, I'm sure you'll have lots of fun there, and it's in a capital city so it shouldn't be too dull. I guess I just didn't consider Wales when I was applying to unis, in the same way that I didn't consider Northern Ireland. The people I know at Cardiff med school certainly haven't had many complaints about the place.

[Steppe]

Yeah, indeed I mean thumb drive (typo error).

If I stay in campus, I will not be able to have internet connection in my room. I will have to use the computer resource centres. I am told that some are open 24/7. Hence, I am thinking of bringing the thumb drive and if plugging is allowed, I will be able to download whatever I need in it and then bring back to the room to use my laptop to work on it or to read whatever material I need to read.

Theoretically, thumb drive should be allowed to be plugged in as it is so common to use it nowadays.

I suppose we will have to wait until we get the book list and then seek your opinion/advice on which are the good and recommended ones. Or you can recommend some books already.

You may or may not be able to use a thumb drive, I don't know, but I can tell you that in some places you're not allowed to reload the paper trays in the public printers by yourself - make of that what you will. Perhaps it would be a good idea to email the folks at the med school/uni to ask? Don't be afraid of emailing them, the worst that can happen is that you won't get an answer, in which case be persistent if you really need to know something.
I'm quite surprised the rooms on campus don't have Net connection - are you absolutely sure this is the case? Perhaps it's just that hall of residence, in which case you could consider applying for another hall?
I'm afraid I can't recommend any books, unless you are going to a med school which I've attended/am attending. I suppose I could give some general guidance based on your booklist, if you have one, but would rather not as different books are suited to different courses (some unis design their courses around books which their staff have written or vice-versa, for example).

[sarahfoo]

I heard from my seniors that most medical graduates from Cambridge are more into the research field rather than the service sector (I mean as in doctors/consultants working in hospitals). Is this true? Is Cambridge only selecting/prefer applicants which has an interest in the research field to those who wish to practice medicine in hospitals?

Not true if you're talking about leaving clinical medicine to go into research entirely. If that were the case East Anglia (the region of England where Cambridge is) would be severely deprived of junior doctors! Research is a requirement for progression of your career, so every medical graduate will need to do it in addition to clinical work however. Even full-time NHS (National Health Service) consultants have to do some research as part of their job. As a rough guide, most will enter general practice (although the number of Cambridge grads going into GP as a career is not as high compared to other places), most of the remainder to hospital-based specialties and a very few into full-time research (by the way the working conditions for academics here isn't great, just so you know).
As regards selection of students, your statement that those who are selected are those whom the selectors think would make good academics is partly true on a superficial level. There is no bias against people who do not want to practise clinical medicine, but the people who are selected are those who tend to have a slightly more academic bent and so as a proportion of the class more go on to academic careers. The point is - the people who go on to academic careers are not selected on the basis of any self-professed interest, but more because their inherent characteristics predispose them to doing so. Plus I think in most cases selectors would think you rather odd if you said you wanted to be an academic at the age of 17...
Lastly - be critical of things you hear! Good to see you have doubts and are questioning these untruths.

[Steppe]

Please see the letters below published in STAR Opinion which I have pasted here for your reading. Unfortunately, I missed the first one on 2nd of June and it was no longer under 30 days Archive.

What I want to know is - is it true that students from private college (sounds like IMU students here) has to pay for the tuition fee for the internship in UK?

UK senior medical students or is there anyone who has friends studying medical twinning in IMU and then twin in one of the partner UK Uni (Aberdeen, etc)? Please help to find out as I have a sister in IMU now and this is never being mentioned any where at all. My parents are alarmed by this and indeed paying another full year for intern is not a small matter, not in the cost plan at all.

Besides, why do interns need to pay? Isn't intern already a medical graduate? Won't the intern be paid by working in the hospital?

--------------------------------------------------------

STAR Saturday June 4, 2005
Fees for medical course double two years later

I REFER to the letter, ?Set limit on private college fees?, (The Star, June2). I am a parent who faces the same plight concerning medical college fees of a private college in Kuala Lumpur, which has twinning facility with universities overseas.

At the time of enrolment, the fee quoted for one partner medical university was something I could afford. But when it was time for my son to join this university after two years, the rate had nearly doubled.

After my son joined the university, I found that students from this private college would have to pay a full year's tuition fees for the intern year but the locals did not pay any fees.

When this complaint was made, the answer given by the college was: ?You have chosen to do medicine knowing it is expensive, so you have to pay whatever the bill.? The Malaysian High Commission overseas should look into such unfair treatment of Malaysian students there.

DISAPPOINTED SENIOR CITIZEN,
Mentakab.
(via e-mail)

-----------

STAR Tuesday June 7, 2005
Unfair to say private colleges are greedy

I AM taking up medicine in London.

I refer to the letters, ?Set limit on private college fees? (The Star, June 2) and ?Fees for medical course double two years later? (The Star, June 4) which, in my opinion, have painted an unfair image of private medical colleges.

?Frustrated Ex-Government Servant? expressed his unhappiness over the fact that a particular medical college had up to 180 students per class.

This is not an uncommon practice as most big medical colleges in Britain such as King?s and Imperial cater to more than 300 students.

Even Oxford and Cambridge have 150 students per intake. Having a small intake would be unfeasible (both for the university and country) as a significant percentage of the students will either drop out, change courses or, should they succeed, decide to ply their trade in a different country, thus exacerbating the shortage of doctors.

?Disappointed Senior Citizen? complained about how students from a private college had to pay the full amount of tuition fees for the intern years while the locals were exempted.

Perhaps this comes from the misconception that the intern period in a medical school only involves working in hospitals to gain experience.

Locals, in most cases, do not have to pay tuition fees because it is subsidised by their government. Naturally, once the student graduates, he has to work in government hospitals (for example, a local medical student in Britain will have to work for the NHS).

There is, however, no such restriction for overseas students.

While it is easy to point fingers at private colleges and say that they are greedy, we should take into consideration not only the high cost of training a medical student but also that the college's investment in research to keep up to date.

It is unfortunate that places in medical schools are determined as much by wealth as by intelligence. Perhaps the Government could play a part in subsidising the cost for private medical colleges.

A MEDICAL STUDENT,

London.

------------

STAR Wednesday June 22, 2005
Foreign interns get no pay, but must pay fees

I REFER to the letter ?Unfair to say private colleges are greedy,? (The Star, June 7).

It is sad to note that the writer, a medical student himself, fails to realise that an intern is in fact a qualified doctor.

An intern is a graduate with an MBBS, MD or MBCHB degree, based on the university he had graduated from.

Due to this fact, it is absurd for these qualified doctors to pay their universities full tuition fees to work in training hospitals.

The writer claims that the local interns do not pay this fee as they are subsidised by the Government. However, he failed to mention that the locals are in fact paid for their services as interns; but the foreigners do not get even a sen for the hard work they put in as interns.

They are on call, admit patients, take blood samples, write discharge summaries and do everything else any other intern would do, and yet pay the full tuition fees to the university for no tuition given to them.

It is a fact that the local medical students are subsidised by the Government for the five years of their medical studies.

That is the reason why they pay lower tuition fees as compared to foreign students.

However in the intern year, the locals do not pay any tuition fees but on the other hand get paid an intern's salary.

The question here is why are the foreigners made to pay the full tuition fees and furthermore are not paid a salary?

AN INTERN,

Kuala Lumpur.

(via e-mail)

[yeeyen]

erm, when they talk about interns are the talking about the housemanship year? or in the case of the private colleges, are they talking about the clinical years? I'm so confused. I thought that interns were only found in the US.

[sarahfoo]

erm, when they talk about interns are the talking about the housemanship year? or in the case of the private colleges, are they talking about the clinical years? I'm so confused. I thought that interns were only found in the US.




I think they meant housemanship year.

Looks like some people are shooting from the hip again :D
Let's clarify a few things -
1) The term 'internship' doesn't exist in the UK context. I believe the letter-writers are referring to what are called 'house jobs', or 'housemanship' in Malaysia. Even that has now been renamed to 'Foundation Year 1'.
2) You don't have to pay for the privilege of housejobs. Rather, you get paid for doing them!
3) There is no requirement for UK medical graduates to serve in the NHS i.e. there is no 'bond'. However one has to do at least 3 months of surgery and 3 months of medicine house jobs to get registered with the GMC.
I hope that helps.

[SHuLy]

soft copy of the A Level results are outttt.....!!!!

cardiff it is..! :? i seem more worried than excited..

Well done, and welcome to the ranks of the medical community! (extends hand in greeting) Best wishes for September/October, I'm sure you will have a brilliant time at medical school.

[Kharkiv23]

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[Zeroth]

SPAM ALERT.

[sunshine88]

i'd like to know whether anyone here have used STPM results to apply for universities in UK(for undergraduate studies)......Pls. respond.