Causes Of Accidents And Traffic Offences [Archive]

View Full Version : Causes Of Accidents And Traffic Offences

chenchow

30-11-2003, 10:46 AM

Hi, I believe that this is a golden opportunity for RECOM - to have its first public appearance. Our government is seeking input to study on "Causes of Accidents And Traffic Offences" and if we can get everyone to come out with fantastic idea, that will separate our idea from everyone else's idea, that will be a tremendous boost.

We could study in detail the Causes of Accidents and Traffic Offences and then we should suggest practical idea to solve the problems. With our experience in many countries, hopefully our idea will be revolutionary.

Read the articles at:-
http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=633&mode=&order=0&thold=0

Email for NSTP on this issue is quickresponse@<hidden>

NSTP would like to know feedback about whether stiffer penalties would be good and about ways of implementations.

Another news article on this issue is at:-
http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=640&mode=&order=0&thold=0

For us to gain visibility, we need to act fast. Hope to hear more people would respond and we can send an email to NSTP on this issue under RECOM!!!

Thirdshifter

30-11-2003, 12:54 PM

Apparently the forum would be held somewhere in Malaysia where most recom member do not reside at.

As fas as suggesting a way to curb this. I'll just say it's like war on drugs. A war you can never win. Ermm change that to war on terrorism.

The only thing you could do is educate Malaysian about road safety and behaviour.

Talking from experience thats the only thing most Malaysian lacks. Civility while on the road.

Also, We could use wider lanes on the backroads and since most of this fatalities occures in Backroads because there's no alternatives for them.. build a friggin' highway.. lots of them.

Then put a toll booth every kilometre if you please to regenerate the money "lost"

chenchow

30-11-2003, 01:12 PM

While the forum will be in KL, where most of us may not be able to physically attend, but we could submit our thoughts etc to NSTP at the email address above. I am sure there will be more avenues given to us to provide input in this issue.

royston

30-11-2003, 02:27 PM

Well, basically the road, highway, traffic lights... all built with minor problems but the key-reason for accident issue is the drivers' behavior. I believe this is the disciplinary problem.

~ roy ~

littlebigone

30-11-2003, 04:10 PM

Traffic offences
How about the fact that we have people who don't deserve a license on the road --> lesen kopi.

Accidents
I also think that Malaysians maybe use driving as a way to release all the pent up anger. It's like a total transformation from being a nice person to road bully.

eeyore

30-11-2003, 04:29 PM

Well, a great percentage of traffic accidents in Malaysia involves motorcyclists. I think those who ride motorbikes are exposed to a greater risk because firstly they're on two wheels only and secondly, they have less "protection". I think the roads are not very well suited for motorcyclists. If can have special lanes just for motorists, we might cut down the number of accidents.

In terms of traffic offences, one reason people might dare to break the law is because the enforcement of our laws is so weak in the first place. Many people have run red lights and went over the speed limit and have never been caught or handed a fine. That's why many people actually dare to break the law to be quick, because the believe chances are, they won't get caught.

royston

30-11-2003, 08:53 PM

well... for motorist... in fact for motorist, no doubt their risks are higher comparing with car drivers. But most of the ppl riding motocycle are because this type of vehicle is cheap, much more cheaper than a car...

But for those who ride a big bike (150/250/500/950cc), they ride it just for the sake of speed. A special lane to be made for motorist is a good idea... but seems like the traffic in Malaysia are so busy, furthermore, the space used for road/highway is kinda limited as well. Each time they widen the road will take them years... and when there is a project carried on in an area, that place will definitely become very dirty and traffic even jammed...

I guessed the enforcement of traffic rules is quite strict in highway but in town area, seems like no rules at all... :wink:

Another thing is, if corruption canses can be eliminated/reduced, I believe this will strongly help to reduce the accident case BUT... corruption will never be eliminated... there are tons of reasons behind but this is quite sensitive ... heehee... not so good to discuss here ...

~ roy ~

littlebigone

01-12-2003, 06:05 AM

I agree about the enforcement too. I think one of 'saman ekor' is not effective as the punishment comes way after the offence is commited. It's like you don't really associate the fine with the offence. Instead you feel angry and "cheated" by the govt. I feel that punishment should be metted out at the time of the offence as then we will know that we are punished for something that we did.

jiinjoo

01-12-2003, 06:33 AM

I think the point system is very effective - last I remembered we didn't have such things?

Some blame the training process. I think even though the duit kopi thingy is prevalent (damn, feel so proud to pass the test without pushing that extra RM50 to that super fat examiner), it is not the cause for the accidents. Overconfidence is more of a killer.

silverblue

01-12-2003, 10:23 AM

I also think that all this has to do with driver's personal etiquette. For example, in Ithaca, pedestrians will always have to right to cross the roads first... and the drivers here are extremely courteous and patient... hhmm but then again... maybe it's a small town... :?

Ok... some suggestions:

1) Our current driving examinations are still very inadequate... it's way too easy to pass without really being qualified (with all the under-the-table money). Something needs to be done here to ensure that those who pass the tests are really qualified on the road. Maybe affiliate all driving schools with a recognized body (eg. Transportation Ministry) to create standardized driving instruction/quality/evaluation. And implement ways to incorporate the instructors' recommendations/evaluation to be critical in the test-takers' passing or failing the test.

2) First, we have to eliminate corruption - policemen who takes duit-kopi from errants who wants to escape a ticket. As long as there is corruption, there'll be repeat offenders who haven't learnt their lessons well.

3) Enforce a more effective 'saman' system (as suggested by Littlebigone).

4) Educate younsters about road etiquette - require errants/offenders to attend an etiquette workshop.

5) I think the road sign board in Malaysia are very very bad... the signs at some junctions come right at the junction itself, not before and this would really be a huge cause of accidents! Drivers have to squint their eyes cos the signs are so far away and making last minute decisions to turn to the other direction - can be extremely deadly! There are many other such examples of bad road signs but I can't think of any more now... but this is definitely a problem.

more to come... but next time.. have to start studyin!!

slumbermann

01-12-2003, 12:19 PM

it is all about the attitude, they r videos showing how malaysians drive on the road, n u can see how bad they r... everyone rushing to their destination... n nvr care about others... so it is us that cause all the things...

Schye

01-12-2003, 07:32 PM

In Japan, for every accident that happens, the bigger one will be the first one to be blamed no matter what the situation is and most of the cases, the bigger one will be fined.
For example, if you are driving a car and a bike bump at you, you will still need to pay him for most of the cases.... ;)
This has made those driving bigger vehicle to be more careful. Take a look at Malaysian lorry drivers or bus drivers. They never take care of others especially that motorbikers.Cars in Japan will slow down whenever you walk near the road. I can even walk across a road with a zebra crossing with my eyes closed and I still can feel safe.
I think this should be practiced in Malaysia too although many cases are caused by motorbikers.Or at least should be practiced in Malaysia when I am back or not I may appear on one of the news paper because of getting used to the situation here.

About the corruption, till now I still can't believe that on of my friends paid the police with Durians! So, I think there should be improvement in the police officers salary together with more strict rules. I think their salaries must be not enough until they will take even Durians?sigh!

littlebigone

01-12-2003, 08:32 PM

I know a friend who told the police he didn't have money but his house was close by. Guess what, they "escorted" him home for him to get money to pay them off.

chenchow

08-12-2003, 12:22 AM

There is a very good article on accidents and road deaths in our News Section today.

Check out:-
http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=756

and

http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=757&mode=&order=0&thold=0

soul_out

08-12-2003, 04:54 AM

__earth

08-12-2003, 07:44 AM

royston

08-12-2003, 10:12 AM

that's one sweeping assumption. surely not all of the are corrupted

Yeah, agree. I have met some "good" policemen before but the ratio between is about 8:1, 8 for corrupted, 1 for good.

Just imagine, IF you have done something against the rules, you are caught by them. What will you do if they hint you that certain small amount of money will be able to settle this and you are running short of time for something...??

Will you pay them? Or you straight away ask them for the ticket? If there are no special rules to control them from asking/receiving bribes, even if the government increase their salary, that will not help to improve the situation. Take an example: If you are working with a certain amount of salary and you are "allowed" to get OT allowance, will you receive it?

Let's think of it...

~ roy ~

__earth

08-12-2003, 11:21 AM

well, i dont know. anyhow, it's off topic. let's not hijack the thread. :)

chenchow

08-12-2003, 12:17 PM

enforcement may be just a very little portion of reason why accidents happen. I still think that if everyone cares about the life of others. Say you try not to speed, try to be considerate when you drive, try not to drink and drive, try not to overtake at dangerous corners, try not to jump the red light, I think we could reduce the number of accidents by a huge margin. It is all human behavior

On corruption by police, if you look at it at the economic way. If everyone insists on not bribing any of the police and everyone works together to report any bribery that the police asks from, would the number of corruption cases go down. Say if you are being asked by a police for bribe, remember the identification number of the police, and write to local daily on that, i think it would put a deterrence on the police, right? And I think there is also problems in the public, where people resort to give bribe, when they wish to solve the problems easily....

soul_out

08-12-2003, 09:12 PM

Malaysia JPJ and Traffic Police are famous of corruption & bribery. When they are on duty, they corrupt. When they are off duty but shortage of money, they corrupt by "working over time".(Guys,you know what i'm talking) Corruption already became their main source of income apart from their salary.

that's one sweeping assumption. surely not all of the are corrupted.

Obviously not 100%, but i would say 1:9, ain't 90% a serious 1? Why am i so confirm about it, because i was brought up in such an environment. Guess some of you feel the same. I know it more when i started to drive. Drive in Penang for 2 years and KL for 3 years, all the traffic police and JPJ are the same. There's only 1 trick to get rid of summon through out the whole year, no matter is rainy day or sunny day.

littlebigone

09-12-2003, 12:32 AM

soul_out

09-12-2003, 06:10 AM

well, maybe the drivers can take it upon themselves to help the situoation by refusing to give bribes. I think we ahve to be more proactive in this situation. If we don't "supply" the bribes, I think there won't be a problem

Sounds easy huh?

Dude, shall i call you Master of Utopia?

Bribery in Malaysia is not the worst among the 3rd world countries, but why is it so widespread while it doesn't seems much in 1st world countries such as US & UK?

soul_out

09-12-2003, 06:23 AM

enforcement may be just a very little portion of reason why accidents happen. I still think that if everyone cares about the life of others. Say you try not to speed, try to be considerate when you drive, try not to drink and drive, try not to overtake at dangerous corners, try not to jump the red light, I think we could reduce the number of accidents by a huge margin. It is all human behavior

Human behaviour will not be changed easily by persuasion, especially to persuade the whole nation.

Speed limit warning sign board, "Picture with slogan regarding safety driving" on billboard along the highway, Alcohol test at main highway on Friday and Saturday night and Camera at main traffic lights have all being done to reduce the precautions that u said. The effectiveness is questionable right? It seems doesn't work in those unconsiderate and reckless drivers.

I suggest we increase the duration of the licence suspension, increase the toll fees and increase the car insurance. This will benefit in economic point of view as well.

chenchow

09-12-2003, 06:44 AM

The government is toying with the proposal, that the more accidents you are involved with, the higher your insurance premiums. What do you guys think about that proposal?

And I think government is going to implement 5-year licence suspension if due to your reckless driving, someone got killed.

__earth

09-12-2003, 06:58 AM

it's one of the best suggestions. it's good to see economics in action.

concerning corruption, ppl always blame the other and refuse to blame themselves. just dont give them the money, unless they threaten you with a gun. if there is no supply, the market wouldn't work despite the demand. it's similar to every market, including in "bribery market".

Sounds easy huh? Dude, shall i call you Master of Utopia? If everybody has that attitude, then of course it will be impossible. In various Recom's threads, there was a strong voice shouting "it's the attitude". Well, let's practice that by starting it right here, right now.

Bribery in Malaysia is not the worst among the 3rd world countries, but why is it so widespread while it doesn't seems much in 1st world countries such as US & UK? corruption seems to be less of a problem because they have the attitude. They don't say "Sounds easy huh?". Never give up the war without fighting it.

soul_out

09-12-2003, 07:35 AM

Sounds easy huh? Dude, shall i call you Master of Utopia? If everybody has that attitude, then of course it will be impossible. In various Recom's threads, there was a strong voice shouting "it's the attitude". Well, let's practice that by starting it right here, right now.

There will not be any significant improvement if we only say, no matter how inspiring your shouting is.

Brother _earth & littlebigone, bribery is very serious, and it is not going to end with "well,let's practice by starting it right here, right now". Must know, not every1 in Malaysia has the same family background and educational level as you guys. What we need to do now is suggest the idea to recom so that Chen Chow can send it to NSTP.

__earth

09-12-2003, 07:40 AM

we all realized it serious. How about you? do you think it's the impossible to curb it?
if you are in a situation when the officer askes for a bribe, will you give it?

soul_out

09-12-2003, 07:45 AM

Bribery in Malaysia is not the worst among the 3rd world countries, but why is it so widespread while it doesn't seems much in 1st world countries such as US & UK? corruption seems to be less of a problem because they have the attitude. They don't say "Sounds easy huh?". Never give up the war without fighting it.

Again, please don't just say "attitude". Everyone know they have "the attitude". Bribery won't disappear if the leader always say "attitude" but do not teach the people how to do that. Do you know where are their attitude come from? Because the fines are really heavy, and it's also part of their culture. What about your opinion?

Kempen Bersih, Cekap dan Amanah was implemented by Dr.M, so the war was already started 2 decades ago. How's the effectiveness?

__earth

09-12-2003, 07:48 AM

you say don't talk about attitude. But then, you mentioned culture. Isn't western attitude is part of the western culture itself?

soul_out

09-12-2003, 07:59 AM

we all realized it serious. How about you? do you think it's the impossible to curb it?
if you are in a situation when the officer askes for a bribe, will you give it?

If he is a traffic police or JPJ, i will show him the cash & credit cards in my wallet, and tell him that i'm rich enough to pay for the summon, and i will take down his ID and call to the enforcement on the spot.

Well, sincerely, i don't think the enforcement will take any action...tell me what you think about it. I personally think that they are hopeless in preventing road accident and reckless driving except in controlling the traffic congestion and do some speed trap along the highway.

Impossible to curb it? It's a long long way to go. Another way to curb it is memimpin "dengan" teladan. I think there are a more approprite word to use instead of "dengan", i've forgotten... :lol:

Must know, they dare to corrupt only if their head or leader tolerate/corrupt as well.

soul_out

09-12-2003, 08:03 AM

you say don't talk about attitude. But then, you mentioned culture. Doesn't western attitude is part of the western culture itself?

Misunderstanding. I said "don't just talk about "attitude" and do nothing."

Suggest some appropriate idea "to instil "attitude" so that ChenChow can send it to NSTP.

Western attitude is part of the western culture.

huilinchin

09-12-2003, 11:29 AM

I fully agree with what chenchow pointed out about increasing the insurance premium to those at fault.
I read about it recently that our Transport Minister Datuk Seri Chan Kong Choy suggested that higher insurance premium may be imposed on drivers with poor records. In fact, I was very happy when I read the news.

I must say that at this point, I no longer believe or rather want to believe that people's attitude can be changed to reduce accidents if gov do not first enforce and implement harsher punishments. From what I can see and from my personal experience talking to drivers in the US for 3 years, I strongly believe drivers have good etiquettes not mainly because they have good attitude, but rather the law enforcement that creates good driving etiquettes.

For example, an aunty in Pittsburgh is soooo careful about driving ever since she did not stop at the red light once. She seldom break rules, but yet, she told me that her license will be suspended if she break 1-2 more tiny little rules within the year and she will not be able to drive her son to school anymore for the whole year.

Also, I noticed that Pittsburgh driving testers fail drivers on the spot if they do not stop completely at the STOP sign and wait for a few secs. Before I was aware of that fact, I notice everyone stops completely at the stop sign even when it's very obvious there is no car and I wondered where the 'culture' came from. Yes, we should stop, but not completely and wait for a few seconds. This will consume more gas than necessary. But what I am trying to illustrate is the fact that it is always much more of the law that shape people's attitude.

Also, initially, I thought that US people just have the courtesy and kind heart for letting pedestrians cross the road first by stopping their cars. But it's really not that for most cases because a Pittsburgher who have lived here for over 30 years told me that it is the law to stop if you can when you see a pedestrian wanting to cross the road.

I am thinking when the law is fully enforced and we use economic tricks like raising insurance premium, people's attitude will change automatically. Once people's attitude have changed, it becomes a habit (a good one!) and will eventually turn into a norm and culture naturally.

Just like I see people stop for pedestrian to cross, so I do the same thing.
Strong law enforcement, harsher punishment and economics tricks are certainly the way to go for me.

This is what I think :)

-Hui Lin ^_^

Schye

09-12-2003, 01:57 PM

I am thinking when the law is fully enforced and we use economic tricks like raising insurance premium, people's attitude will change automatically. Once people's attitude have changed, it becomes a habit (a good one!) and will eventually turn into a norm and culture naturally.

I am taking Sociology this semester and from what I have learnt, the enforcement of LAW is the best way to change the attitude of a large group of people (community) or stop a bad circulation of bad habit/mind set. As soul_out said above, human can?t change their attitude easily, as it has become a habit. The enforcement of law will FORCE them to change it and it is the only way to change a large community with various types of people.

Like the old saying:
A cow won't walk if you don?t beat him.