STPM and matriks?

[navarone]

gohweihan, I would just like to say that I admire you greatly for your vehement arguments against the matriculation system, and I am also in favour of abolishing the matriculation system which I see as unfair, unjust, discriminating, and is being shoved down our throats as being "fair meritrocacy" by the powers that be.

[gohweihan]

There are things that needs to be said because it is the right thing to do.

[reign226]

Think about it this way. Yes, Matriculation has lower standards, and we will undoubtedly face problems with people feeling comfortable with this standard and not seek to improve themselves, because there is really no need to. As long as you get into Matrix, the road to uni is paved in gold.

However, since Malaysia is such a big country, I believe the logistical problems associated with trying to give equal-opportunity education to people from all walks, interior and urban, of life to be something that cannot be done very easily. For one thing, only a small (relatively speaking) percentage of our population lives in towns with good, well-equipped schools. Thus the proposal of a completely academic-based merit system is condemning the rest of us who are not so blessed with such luxuries. When it comes down to this, there is no such thing as a simple, fair and balanced answer. The abolishment of matriculation in favour of a system inherently advantagous to select sections of the society is just simply a replacement of an unfair system with an unjust one.

Yes, i agree that we live in a dog eat dog world, but there is one thing that I think we must all remember and that is we live in a multicultural society. It's all nice and rosy on the surface, but we can never be sure when this ticking time-bomb will go off. The debate on 'special priviliges' which is what everybody seems to caricature Matriculation as is something I do not wish to touch, but I am of the opinion that Matriculation is not born out of these special privilige clauses; it just so happens that those in need of system just happen to be of a specific race. Also, the opening of the 10% quota further weakens the argument that matriculation is for special people, because it shows the government also recongnizes the plights of the unfortunate non-bumi students. Don't read too much into the 90%-10%I don't think it is a very substantial statistic.

All in all, unless the government can devise a fool-proof way of distributing quality education, Matriculation is here to stay. I am all for making everybody sit through a tough and quality exam like ALevels or STPM, but what's the point of forcing these poor students to go through them, when some of them can hardly even score in their Matriculation?
But, again, I agree that there should be a complete overhaul of the current system to reflect what it's trying to achieve. What is has failed is reducing the poverty gap (or has it?), but that's not an excuse to scrap the system in its entirety. Matriculation should be modified to better reflect its goals. It is like I said, when a student performs poorly and does so of his own volition, then such a person is undeserving of matriculation. When a person is enrolled into Matriculation, it should never be likened to winning the lottery, if you get what I mean.

I doubt so. This government is one that actually harps on racial division in order for it to stay in power

I thought that was a rather rash remark, especially from somebody as opiniated as yourself. There are many examples of policies formulated by the government that tries to address the problem of racial disparity. The NEP and National Service (boy, I hope that doesn't degenerate into another tangent) are such examples. The problem of special priviliges, and something which I think is the root of your discontent, lies not in the fault of the government, but the people who have been living in complacency because of them. If I remember correctly, Dr. Mahathir tried desperately to reduce such priviliges, and even said it's the one thing he has regretted not being able to achieve in his 22-year tenure. The Executive are not dumb people, and they realize the crutches provided is simply a sugar-coated poison pill, but it's a pill that the public has become addicted to, and like all addictions it will take time, perhaps lots of it, to cure.
Likewise, everybody who studied PA will know that a democracy simply means the most popular opinion and stand will win the polls. Thus the Executive has a tough job of both maintaining its grip on governing power as well as advancing society. Of course, there are politicians out there who are truly corrupt, but that is a problem every country will face, and thus the excuse that an issue is politicized is something that we cannot truly escape from.

[gohweihan]

For the argument on a multicultural society it goes down to two things. Firstly, society sees it like you do - a ticking time-bomb. Thus the fear to nudge this bomb because they do not want another May 13. This fear leads them to submit to those in power. Second, matriculation is indeed born out of the NEP for the sole purpose of special rights (General Paper doesn't tell you that, you know why). The continuation of it under the NDP further entrenches it's link to the special rights. So please don't be so naive to think that matriculation was born to help people as it's primary purpose.

For the argument on letting those not so fortunate a chance in university because they cannot obtain the grades, this is what I have to say - if you are not capable, then live with it. A university is not a place to just go in, stamp yourself with a degree, and get out. It is a place where people study to become better. If you are not that capable of studying in the university, you shouldn't be there in the first place. A place in the university is not a right - it is a market good. The better ones get it, and no sympathy should be allowed in this market, for it would only cause deadweight loss.

The counter argument is simple - bring these not so capable from the rural areas to the standards, and never bring the standards to them. I've posted why this is better than letting Malaysia be a welfare state when it comes to education.

Secondly, while perhaps matriculation was established as part of special rights with a secondary purpose to help the bumiputeras, that was back in the 70s. Today it's principles on which it is established is no longer upheld. It was supposed to go in 1990, together with all those NEP policies, but it was continued under the NDP, which is something established to protect special rights.

The issue of 90% - 10% is some big issue. It's not just a small issue and that we should be satisfied. What you said is exactly what the government needs to keep matriculation in place - i.e. the non-bumiputeras already have 10%, the government is showing some sympathy, so let's forget this issue. That is not the way to do things. If you want to do something, do it properly. Don't do something of substandard quality and paint vernier on top of it and call it perfect.

My remarks about the government using race to divide us is not something made out of the blues or when I was drunk. Look at the papers - see how MIC, MCA, UMNO and Gerakan comments on national issues. Before elections, it's always these parties saying that they would take care of whatever race they are representing. MCA would give sweet talk on protecting the Chinese, UMNO would do so for the Malays, and MIC would do for the Indians. They would say that without MIC or MCA, the government would be dominated by Malays, and that Chinese would not stand in Malaysia. Then, things like matriculation and MARA is often used, with them saying that if it weren't for MCA or MIC, matriculation wouldn't be open (the 10%), and MARA colleges would be solely for bumiputeras. Using that, they ask the Chinese to vote for them because they are protecting their rights.

My point is simple - it is no longer feasible to protect the non-bumiputeras. It is time to unleash them. And with that reason, matriculation (and other special rights) should go because by then, we would see how MCA would devise it's policies in a nation where racial discrimination could no longer be used to gain political support.

[Padma]

For the argument on letting those not so fortunate a chance in university because they cannot obtain the grades, this is what I have to say - if you are not capable, then live with it. A university is not a place to just go in, stamp yourself with a degree, and get out. It is a place where people study to become better. If you are not that capable of studying in the university, you shouldn't be there in the first place. A place in the university is not a right - it is a market good. The better ones get it, and no sympathy should be allowed in this market, for it would only cause deadweight loss.


Yes, in the real world(catch what I mean?) indeed it is always the fittest survive.

But this can't apply to all cases. There are times giving in is necessary. There is hardly a win-win situation in such complicated world.

By helping the bumis which are less capable, yes, it creates a temporary harmony. Not a balanced one. One party or another will be supressed and likelihood will develop into a big blow.

However, because the situation is that, the original state of this substance is unbalanced by itself, therefore in order to balance back, external force is needed and therefore, here comes the special rights. It is not a balanced state, as what I have said, but a superficially balanced one.

We are multi-racial and all the more, our nation is still developing. So there is rural and urban. Students are therefore different in their achievement. Unlike other countries, who face only one of the problem mentioned above or even nil, we are in a state of dilemma. We need to catch up, because situation wants us to do so, but our state of mind and criteria, doesn't permit us to follow the so-called "capitalism" system.

[Salvation]

Thus in that light, we can view matriculation as a sort of 'aid' given for these disadvantaged students. Since there is nothing conceptually wrong with aiding the disadvantaged, there should be, conceptually, nothing morally wrong with matriculation, as long as the definition of 'disadvantaged' is not politicized or racialized, and remains something that can be easily and objectively ascertained.


Yes, the poor living in the countryside can be "aided" with lower standards. What about those so many deserving students who had to slog it out so hard in STPM, finally getting good results but yet denied the course of their choise just because people from matriculation is also taken into consideration. Don't they have the right to receive quality education too? Don't they deserve the couse of their choise, after all their hard work studying?

[gohweihan]

Yes, in the real world(catch what I mean?) indeed it is always the fittest survive.

But this can't apply to all cases. There are times giving in is necessary. There is hardly a win-win situation in such complicated world.

By helping the bumis which are less capable, yes, it creates a temporary harmony. Not a balanced one. One party or another will be supressed and likelihood will develop into a big blow.

However, because the situation is that, the original state of this substance is unbalanced by itself, therefore in order to balance back, external force is needed and therefore, here comes the special rights. It is not a balanced state, as what I have said, but a superficially balanced one.

We are multi-racial and all the more, our nation is still developing. So there is rural and urban. Students are therefore different in their achievement. Unlike other countries, who face only one of the problem mentioned above or even nil, we are in a state of dilemma. We need to catch up, because situation wants us to do so, but our state of mind and criteria, doesn't permit us to follow the so-called "capitalism" system.

I just hope you read all the posts here before taking on that statement.

You talk about the real world - so am I. This is the real world. Matriculation turned it into a false reality for Malaysia.

From what I can infer, your argument is that the bumiputeras were at a disadvantage and thus need to be nudged to up their level - thus matriculation in order for them to get into universities. But think again - would this help in the long run? No. Matriculation is a negative external force that degenerates the bumiputeras and increase dissatisfaction (although the media cannot report it for you know what reasons).

If you're thinking that we have yet to see any effects of matriculation, think again. Matriculation is a result of the National Economic Policy - formed out of forced necessity at that time. Three and a half decades down the road, there is no effect whatsoever - in fact, it made the imbalance grow.

So the idea is this - now, you invest in bringing the standards to them. Why not bring them to the standards? Abolish matriculation, and force them to confront the real world. If they need help in that, help them - give them books, build schools, etc. But don't ever bring the standards to them. They will suffer in the long run, and today, we are already seeing the effects.

We have gave a lot to them - and they are not improving. It's time to change the strategy. A little knock on the head to these bumiputeras to show them the real world would help them. And it would help vent the dissatisfaction as well.

[gohweihan]

Likewise, everybody who studied PA will know that a democracy simply means the most popular opinion and stand will win the polls. Thus the Executive has a tough job of both maintaining its grip on governing power as well as advancing society. Of course, there are politicians out there who are truly corrupt, but that is a problem every country will face, and thus the excuse that an issue is politicized is something that we cannot truly escape from.

Firstly, I'm not sure if you analyze the elections in detail and look at the way politicians change overnight the moment elections are looming.

And as for popular opinions and poll winnings, please refer to the statement above.

[bush]

......y not send students from rural areas to premier urban schools that do stpm, something like JCs........if they really fail stpm like(EEEE), then it would show that their upper secondary education was a waste.......it will also show that their lower secondary education was also a waste....it will further show that their primary education was.......

so u see, there isn;t any logic behind matriculation's existence.....if weak poor students deserve a chance to study in university what more if its a excellent poor student.........

[mediator]

i agree with the whole 'bring them up to the standard not bring the standard to them',with a big but,this is,as i've said before,much easier said than done.it will take a lot of time and more more money.what i wish would happen is NOT matriculation being ebolished NOW,but only after proper education facilities and aids are surely invested to help the unfortunate students.i do not wish to see matriculation being ebolished and for,maybe 10 or 20 or who knows years only they start to help them.

the general idea is undeniably good but i dislike the whole 'rushing to ebolish matrik' thingy.you know how long,at times,the government takes to act,don't you?i hate to think how much the unfortunate will struggle in the meantime...ever thought of that?

btw bush,students who are selected for matriculation,generally,do not have EEE even for their spm.they can't.or they would not be even chosen in the first place (my,you know that do you?).the average result,i would say is 8A's...so i would not go saying students who go to matrik are *weak*.....(shrug)

[gohweihan]

the general idea is undeniably good but i dislike the whole 'rushing to ebolish matrik' thingy.you know how long,at times,the government takes to act,don't you?i hate to think how much the unfortunate will struggle in the meantime...ever thought of that?

The question that you should be asking is why is the people still sticking with this government when like you claimed, this government takes a long time to act (more so on issues like this).

The easiest solution right now would be to let matriculation conduct STPM. These students would be going to matriculation colleges anyway - so let them take STPM there. You already have infrastructures and training staff (provided those matriculation staff are competent teachers).

Anyway, what's wrong with struggling a little. These people had been pampered too much with matriculation, it is time they learnt that good things don't come easy. STPM is not that hard, if they are willing to work for it.

btw bush,students who are selected for matriculation,generally,do not have EEE even for their spm.they can't.or they would not be even chosen in the first place (my,you know that do you?).the average result,i would say is 8A's...so i would not go saying students who go to matrik are *weak*.....(shrug)

Since you can say that, I assume that you would agree that these people could easily cope if matriculation colleges were to implement STPM?

The point is, the government does not have enough resources to go ahead with education development while maintaining matriculation. Either one has to go, so why choose to stick with the worse? The needs of the many outweights the needs of the few. No doubt, I would not deny that the initial batch would probably experience a shock to discover that their matriculation is now as high a standard as STPM. But humans learn. After a while, they would get used to it, and would start working towards achieving excellence if they want to. The facilities are there, just change the standards. Then start to focus on development.

[mediator]

yes,i believe most students who're chosen for matrik won't go 'failing' in stpm.

you see,i do not really agree that matrik is this so 'low and substandard' exam compared to stpm.it's you who assume that.that was one of the reasons why i questioned before,what so big a difference does it make if matrik is ebolished?my main idea about matrik is to aid unfortunate but capable (mark this) students..so i keep wondering why you want it so much to be ebolished??and so soon too?

stupid me.i guess this brings us back to the 'selection is not transparent',not fair,quota,what not... mm hm?

oh and i doubt if the 'easiest' solution is wise either.and by the word 'struggle',i'm undermining the situation..i really mean it's much worse than that.

[bush]

btw bush,students who are selected for matriculation,generally,do not have EEE even for their spm.they can't.or they would not be even chosen in the first place (my,you know that do you?).the average result,i would say is 8A's...so i would not go saying students who go to matrik are *weak*.....(shrug)

since it is true that they are not weak students, why can't they do Stpm, after all many people with that same SPM grades do sit for stpm...........no reason for matriculation to stay......if they are from rural areas........simple, send them to urban schools or government colleges to do stpm.......it will be very fair.....

[bush]

yes,i believe most students who're chosen for matrik won't go 'failing' in stpm.

you see,i do not really agree that matrik is this so 'low and substandard' exam compared to stpm.it's you who assume that.that was one of the reasons why i questioned before,what so big a difference does it make if matrik is ebolished?my main idea about matrik is to aid unfortunate but capable (mark this) students..so i keep wondering why you want it so much to be ebolished??and so soon too?

stupid me.i guess this brings us back to the 'selection is not transparent',not fair,quota,what not... mm hm?

oh and i doubt if the 'easiest' solution is wise either.and by the word 'struggle',i'm undermining the situation..i really mean it's much worse than that.

By sponsoring unfortunate students to study stpm can also be considered as an aid........and if u were to speak to lecturers and academicians they can descibe to u the differences between these 2 groups of students in their classes.

we know that they are unfortunate and we know that they are capable just sponsor them to do one and only national pre-u programme, which u could either name it stpm or malaysian matriculation....all students wishing to study in our U are required to take this test, be it rich or poor, bumi or non-bumi.....

[gohweihan]

yes,i believe most students who're chosen for matrik won't go 'failing' in stpm.

you see,i do not really agree that matrik is this so 'low and substandard' exam compared to stpm.it's you who assume that.that was one of the reasons why i questioned before,what so big a difference does it make if matrik is ebolished?my main idea about matrik is to aid unfortunate but capable (mark this) students..so i keep wondering why you want it so much to be ebolished??and so soon too?

Matriculation is indeed very low in terms of standard. You have a bunch of people who go into there to study a substandard education and go on to universities, while we know they can do more. So why not let them study the harder syllabus, like what bush wanted? Unless you want to say that they are not capable of sitting for STPM, which would surely contradict youself.

The thing is, the people have potential, but the system is so easy that you don't need potential to score. My issue is not with the people - it's with the system. Why stick on to a system that limits potential, just because you want to a greater number of bumiputeras in university?

In matriculation, the smart bumiputeras cannot progress, while the weaker ones get a false sense of reality. In the end, both lose. You need to have a system where the strong can realize their potential, while the weak realize that in this world, you cannot hide yourself in a shell and expect things to be served to you. Matriculation colleges have the facilities, so it's not an issue of whether there is infrastructure or otherwise. It's just a matter if the bumiputeras dare to take the challenge of converting to a higher standard examination, right now, so that they can challenge the future. If they dare not, then this issue would turn into a special rights issue, which I don't mind debating.

oh and i doubt if the 'easiest' solution is wise either.and by the word 'struggle',i'm undermining the situation..i really mean it's much worse than that.

So what is wise in your opinion. You stated that we have an incompetent government who takes ages to carry out a project, but you want progress. And now, it seems you want status quo, but you agree that it's not the best solution, and should be changed.

To tell you the truth, my initial perception of you is that you want matriculation here because you think that there's nothing that can be done in status quo to change that.

I only respond to what you post. I cannot respond to what you don't post.

As long as you hide behind your posts, I cannot do anything. I do not want to assert anything, because believe me, I can think of 101 possible reasons why you don't want matriculation abolished. Some may be true, some may be not.

I hope you understand that the future waits for no one. We have been lagging further and further behind, and it's going to go only one way in the future - worse. That is, unless we do something now.

[bush]

gohweihan has elaborated and expressed what i would like to say too....nothing can really justify matriculation.....

[nigel]

I agree with you Weihan that matriculation is indeed low in standards compared with STPM. In fact I used to think why would some non-bumis enter matriculation when they know that the standards are low and there are possible chances that you might be bullied and treated unfairly because the bumis outnumber you 9 to 1. I used to advised my juniors to not take matirculation and realise their true potential in STPM. But this is what they have to say, they would say wake up man you are living in the 'Real' Malaysia and in the 'Real' Malaysia you do whatever is best for you. If you are given an easier chance to enter university then you take it after all you still come out with a degree using the fast route (1 year less compared to STPM). I do admit that they are actually shortchanging themselves by learning less skills to compete in the global market. But they will retort by saying, so long as you live in Malaysia, have a job in Malaysia then you will be ok. In a sense they are right. If you get a degree in Malaysia and you work in Malaysia then you should be able to earn a decent living.

I am a product of the STPM and strongly agree that ideally matriculation should be abolished. But realistically, I don't think it can be done easily. Lets look at it from a political perspective. Do you think that our leaders don't know the problems facing the education system and how to solve them? I doubt that. It will take a lot of political will and courage to implement a drastic change in the education system. Lets say they abolish matriculation then in the beginning you might expect to see a drastic fall in the admission of bumis to universities. If the bumis are mature enough to see that this is actually a good move for them in the long run then the abolishment of matriculation will materialise. But I don't see that happening in the near future. Lets face it, there are liberal malays who think that yes matriculation should be abolished and they want to compete on a level playing field with all the other races but the number of liberal malays at the moment are in the minority and politics is a numbers game so no prize for guessing what the government will do.

The only way to solve this problem is for the bumis to realise by themselves that having matriculation is bad for them in the long run. At the moment, the best way is to let matriculation go on and let the bumis enter university on an easy route. Hopefully with more and more educated bumis then they will see that it will be better to abolish matriculation. Basically what I am saying is that give them time. We are already seeing some progress among the bumis though not as fast as we would like to but nevertheless there is progress. Why do you think the NEP was not discontinued after 1990? The reason is because the bumis were not ready. It might take maybe another 20 to 30 years for this to happen but I have faith the it will happen.

As for those STPM students who feel cheated because they are not admitted to the course or university of their choice, take heart and comfort yourself that you are of a higher standard than those matriculation students and your talents will one day be recognise if not by the government then by the private sector and if not by Malaysia then by another country. And I am sure that those who have gone through STPM do have more resilience and preseverance to succeed. I for one am thankful I went through STPM because it made me stronger and able to counter adversity. So it is not a total loss if you have gone through STPM. For those who still insist on going for matriculation then good luck to you afterall we are living in a 'Real' Malaysia and not the real world. But for those who want a challenge then I would advise you to take the STPM route.

The ability to adapt to the environment is what the non-bumis especially the chinese are good at doing. I sincerely feel that change will occur but when it will happen we will have to wait and see. In the mean time if you are a chinese living in Malaysia then do what all Malaysians do. In short, if you can't change them (the bumis), join them.

[gohweihan]

If you think the bumiputeras want matriculation abolished, think again. They have no incentive for doing so. Like you said, they are shielded in Malaysia - there is something called Article 153.

So even if they know they are of a lower standard, they wouldn't mind because they don't need to work so hard to get what the non-bumiputeras get. These people are getting more and more complacent by the day, and it's not the other way around.

You may be optimistic that the bumiputeras would change for the better. I am pessimistic in this sense. They had been consolidating ever since independence - there is no slight indication whatsoever that this would change.

Give me the government and I would probably do a better job.

[reign226]

I think the problem lies in the citizens themselves. The party can't suggest abolishment of matriculation, because that would encounter the wrath of the complacent voters and ensure that in the next elections, there will be some 'payback' time. Thus they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

But I think it's about time the government starts getting tough on 'governing', rather than show up on national tv and play some sort of sitcom day in and day out. It took a few brave reporters to whip the Dewan Rakyat up and make them more responsible, but it was an act that did not go unpunished, however undeserving of punishment it was.

I am not sure if the political inertia towards the silence of matriculation stem from the constitution protecting bumi rights. If it was, then.... well what can I say, harp till the cows come home, and then some, but you can bet they're not going to chance it in the forseeable future.

But I wonder if the govt will consider not 'abolishing' Matriculation (which insofar it has appeared not interested in doing) but replacing the syllabus with that of STPM? I think that would be the best, if only, compromise they can get. Then from there, they can sneakily abolish the internal examination and hence effectively abolish matriculation, but keep everything else about matriculation more or less the same. What do you think?

[gohweihan]

But I wonder if the govt will consider not 'abolishing' Matriculation (which insofar it has appeared not interested in doing) but replacing the syllabus with that of STPM? I think that would be the best, if only, compromise they can get. Then from there, they can sneakily abolish the internal examination and hence effectively abolish matriculation, but keep everything else about matriculation more or less the same. What do you think?

Matriculation in this debate ever since it began refered to the standard.

And it is this standard that is the one refered to whenever I make a reference to Article 153. As long as they replace the standards, they will have officially ended matriculation.

The crux of the matriculation debate is always about it's standards, never it's physical infrastructure.

As for seeing a change, it is our responsibility to play our part as citizens who want to see a better Malaysia. You may not be able to vote now, but you can spread the word. Tell everyone, show them analysis, and tell them how MCA, Gerakan and MIC are just talking sweet while lifting UMNO. Show them the light which MIC, MCA and Gerakan so badly want to keep away from them. You cannot vote, but there's nothing stopping you from speaking out. The ISA is just a state of mind.

[bush]

the government can do so if it is run by a dictator..............

[gohweihan]

the government can do so if it is run by a dictator..............

Referring to?

[bush]

the government can do so if it is run by a dictator..............

Referring to?

anyone........someone who can be a dictator

[gohweihan]

the government can do so if it is run by a dictator..............

Referring to?

anyone........someone who can be a dictator

No, I mean what can the government do?

[Ecinue]

Semakan Keputusan Ke Tingkatan 6 Sesi 2005
http://apps.emoe.gov.my/semakform6/page2.cfm
CATATAN
1. Keputusan muktamad bagi calon-calon warga negara ke Tingkatan Enam Bawah adalah di bawah bidang kuasa Jabatan Pelajaran Negeri.

2. Rayuan bagi calon-calon bukan warga negara untuk kemasukan ke Tingkatan Enam Bawah adalah bergantung kepada kekosongan tempat dan di bawah bidang kuasa Jabatan Pelajaran Negeri.

3. Surat tawaran kemasukan ke Tingkatan Enam Bawah akan dikeluarkan oleh Jabatan Pelajaran Negeri/Pejabat Pelajaran Daerah.

4. Segala bentuk rayuan kemasukan ke Tingkatan Enam Bawah hendaklah berhubung terus dengan Jabatan Pelajaran Negeri masing-masing.

5. Calon-calon yang memenuhi syarat kemasukan ke Tingkatan Enam Bawah daripada Sekolah Agama Negeri hendaklah mengemukakan permohonan menggunakan Borang T6BCP ke Jabatan Pelajaran Negeri dan penempatannya berdasarkan kekosongan tempat.

[reign226]

Eh, was the last post related? Sounds irrelevant.

[lotus]

Food for thought:

"Call on investigation of matriculation students with 3.7 and 3.8 CGPA being being rounded off with an overall score of 4.0 CGPA for purposes of entry into IPTA" - read from the site below

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3939/lks3145.html

[bush]

Lim Kit Siang and Karpal Singh are the only ones who dare to voice out all these rubbish.......and sadly, they are not recognised and honoured as nationalist, they were never confered datukships............but idiots like the one who told people to enjoy rape if u can't fight it is a datuk.......so r the many datuk idiots in the dewan rakyat........

[gohweihan]

What to do. Self-glorification by Barisan. You don't have to be right, you just have to know who to side.

[aina_me]

well, i kinda disagree what you ppl said about matric..i'd been there..not easy as you said..yeah, you said that ppl who got few A's can get 4flat and you do you that some straight A's students, fall flat for matric exam? they just cant survevi.that's the truth..it's hard how you can squezz a 2 years stuff in 10 months..just imagine that..you hardly get enough sleep,only 4 hours a day, tons of homework, and classes from 8-4 and if u r 'lucky' there's night classes..dont have enough time to revise, and you probably finish 1 chapter in an hour..way to fast..life's not easy there..too much stress,and this is the place where i got all my disease, the exam,hey, it is hard..for f6, you have 2 years to study.for us, oh, i think, myb 2 months!my rmmates, she scored 6A's in spm, but got 3.9..it all depends, all depend on you..

[rdt_adamite]

What i gonna say is...u have to strive for the best you think is the best for you.
No point debating which is better or wat, we have to stick to the ground of reality..

[mediator]

been having problem with my computer...

yes,what aina_me said is right.in the very first place,i question what most of you claim that matrik is too 'easy' and substandard compared to stpm.where in the world do you get that idea?true,the lessons are very 'compact' and there're really only about 2 months or so to do revision.i've heard of a number of students who entered matrik as straight A's scorers in spm yet they failed to make their mark in matrik,and students who get 4/5A's in spm but managed to score 4.0 in matrik.the bottomline is,it's all up to you.

[reign226]

Life is not just about following orders. The production of non-thinking, ever-conforming drones is the sad result of what has become our national education policy. It's a place where people are discouraged from thinking, voicing out opinions and where a submissive attitude is rewarded generously. Are you such a person?

Debates are what enhances our mental aptitude, and it is the food for the mind. Questions should be welcomed, matters should be discussed, issues should be debated, if we are to achieve any understand and acceptance at all. Submission is not an answer to any of these questions, merely doublethink (for you 1984 fans) to cloud your minds.

As for the purpoted 'hardships' encountered, here is what I have to say. Yes, matriculation is 'tough' in that it is a different environment, college-like, away from the comforts of home. But in terms of academics, I find that measuring the syllabus to be flawed. For one thing, aina, you are implying that the two-year syllabus of the STPM is that which you are studying for Matriculation. I'm running out vocabulary for the phrase "you're wrong". While Matrix might have breadth, it lacks depth.

You are also implying that the Form Six examination, which a candidate can prepare for two years, is somehow easier than a Matriculation exam which takes places per semester. What you fail to mention is the fact that the syllabus covered in each semester exam in Matrix is much shorter, more compartmentalized. Which of the two systems is easier is (or should be, by now) obviously and painfully clear. I am sometimes surprised that this point is still being brought up.

Matrix is tough in its own ways. But that's still no excuse to give them an 'edge' over STPM. From a purely academic comparison, STPM is tougher than Matrix, hands down. And at the end of the day, what matters is still academic acumen.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

well, i kinda disagree what you ppl said about matric..i'd been there..not easy as you said..yeah, you said that ppl who got few A's can get 4flat and you do you that some straight A's students, fall flat for matric exam? they just cant survevi.that's the truth..it's hard how you can squezz a 2 years stuff in 10 months..just imagine that..you hardly get enough sleep,only 4 hours a day, tons of homework, and classes from 8-4 and if u r 'lucky' there's night classes..dont have enough time to revise, and you probably finish 1 chapter in an hour..way to fast..life's not easy there..too much stress,and this is the place where i got all my disease, the exam,hey, it is hard..for f6, you have 2 years to study.for us, oh, i think, myb 2 months!my rmmates, she scored 6A's in spm, but got 3.9..it all depends, all depend on you..

Please, to matriculation students, don't flatter yourself by thinking that matriculation is the same as learning the equivalent of the entire STPM syllabus in 10 months.

Question yourself - do you really think what you said has any ounce of truth in it? Or are you saying it just to justify the 'hardness' or the so-called equal standard of matriculation?

I challenge you to prove the truth of your comments. You don't even have prove it to me. Just prove it to yourself. Pick up a set of past year STPM question papers, try it yourself, and see what marks you will get.

Game?

[gohweihan]

well, i kinda disagree what you ppl said about matric..i'd been there..not easy as you said..yeah, you said that ppl who got few A's can get 4flat and you do you that some straight A's students, fall flat for matric exam? they just cant survevi.that's the truth..it's hard how you can squezz a 2 years stuff in 10 months..just imagine that..you hardly get enough sleep,only 4 hours a day, tons of homework, and classes from 8-4 and if u r 'lucky' there's night classes..dont have enough time to revise, and you probably finish 1 chapter in an hour..way to fast..life's not easy there..too much stress,and this is the place where i got all my disease, the exam,hey, it is hard..for f6, you have 2 years to study.for us, oh, i think, myb 2 months!my rmmates, she scored 6A's in spm, but got 3.9..it all depends, all depend on you..

So you've been to matriculation. So you've taken the exams. So you claim that matriculation is hard as well. But have you taken STPM?

We're comparing which is harder, not which is hard. You think life is ever easy, think again. Even my friends say Malaysian public universities are hard, but they admit Singapore universities are harder. It's relative. You say it's hard, but what is it harder to? In your case STPM? Think again. And this time, real deep.

You claim that you compact two years worth of syllabus into ten months. Three flaws in that argument.

First, ten months to study in a semester based system. You do not need to even know what you study in the first semester to ace your second semester. Also, what is the depth of these topics? There are people who claimed that they used STPM textbooks for matriculation as reference (note the word reference), but some STPM students use other, higher level books as reference. So you do the math. Which has more details that requires more understanding?

Second. Your internal examination is marked against your own matriculation college. It's standard is therefore reflective of only the standards within the college. And consider this - in Malaysia, the smart bumiputeras are sent away by MARA, the very smart non-bumiputeras are sent away by JPA, and what's left in matriculation are those people who are not of these. And you have 90% of bumiputeras in this - i.e. those rejected for the MARA scholarship. It really makes a whole big number of average and below scorers in matriculation. So in order to make the system look a little better, the relative scale would be shifted so that more pass, and as a result, more score GPA 4.00. It's basic action-reaction sequence.

Third. Dubious standards. The question is this - who governs the matriculation standards? If it's the MOE, then it's still an internal body acting in government's interest (i.e. protecting special rights), and this happens whether there is a merit system, or quota system in place. STPM's standard is scrutinized by a foreign external body.

Then, you claim that matriculation students have classes from eight to four, that sometimes they have night classes, and they suffer from only four hours of sleep. Let's compare that to some typical STPM students.

STPM students go through classes from around 0730 hrs to about 1330 hrs. Then, probably they'll go back for lunch, and then in the afternoon or evening, tuition, usually a three hour duration. After tuition, they go back, have dinner, and study. They would probably sleep around 2 in the morning, and repeat the cycle the next day. And some of them stay quite far from the school.

Matriculation students stay near the school, so travel is not so much of an issue here. They study from 0800 to 1600, but no tuition. Then, they study at night.

Quite the same, isn't it? So big deal. You have two months of study, so do those STPM. Don't think that the whole two years of STPM is available for studies.

Our debate here is about the standards of matriculation, not how hard you study. You want to study all day long, that's fine. But ultimately, your standard is still lower than STPM, no matter how hard you try to fool yourself, because of reasons posted in this whole thread.

Ultimately, the most simple question you can ask yourself (for those matriculation supporters), is why Singapore accepts STPM, and even willing to give scholarships to them, and do not accept matriculation, although it's the same country and under the supposedly same government? It's quite obvious, isn't it?

What i gonna say is...u have to strive for the best you think is the best for you. No point debating which is better or wat, we have to stick to the ground of reality..

Wrong. Yes, all of us have to strive for the best, but only on a level playing field. The people must be brave enough to push for a level playing field, which I feel most (even some in here), are still reluctant.

Reality is what we make it to be. A dream now is reality in the future if there is willingness to execute it.

yes,what aina_me said is right.in the very first place,i question what most of you claim that matrik is too 'easy' and substandard compared to stpm.where in the world do you get that idea?true,the lessons are very 'compact' and there're really only about 2 months or so to do revision.i've heard of a number of students who entered matrik as straight A's scorers in spm yet they failed to make their mark in matrik,and students who get 4/5A's in spm but managed to score 4.0 in matrik.the bottomline is,it's all up to you.

Let me give you the answer. On top of what reign226 gave, I've mentioned about the dubious standards, and relative scale.

Those top scorers who entered matriculation and blew it up badly would probably be those memorizers - i.e. those who only memorize, which is not a way to handle any pre-university course (STPM and matriculation). These people would also probably blow their STPM if they were to go for it.

I got the idea that STPM is of a higher standard (thus harder than matriculation), by means of analysis in a lot of sections. And some of the results of these analysis are the response to aina_me.

[bush]

did u know that imperial college does not accept matriculation but it does recognise STPM?

[rdt_adamite]

The smart bumis' are sent-away by MARA..The very-smart non-bumis' are sent-away by JPA. and those left in matriculation are not these..
I am not trying to 'attack' Gohweihan or anything related to it. I am just pointing my opinion..n i hope this doesn't create any kind of controversy or anything related to it.

First, not all very-smart non-bumis' are sent-away by JPA. I'm posting with evidence ,my friend, he obtained 11A1s' in his SPM and he was very active in his extra-coco activities..but he wasn't chosen..

[gohweihan]

The smart bumis' are sent-away by MARA..The very-smart non-bumis' are sent-away by JPA. and those left in matriculation are not these..
I am not trying to 'attack' Gohweihan or anything related to it. I am just pointing my opinion..n i hope this doesn't create any kind of controversy or anything related to it.

First, not all very-smart non-bumis' are sent-away by JPA. I'm posting with evidence ,my friend, he obtained 11A1s' in his SPM and he was very active in his extra-coco activities..but he wasn't chosen..

Read my post properly. You've quoted it as well. I did not say all.

There would be some leftovers, that's undeniable. But then again, how many of these leftovers would be eligble for matriculation, considering only around 80% is on academic performance?

[Star]

Sorry to interrupt.. but.. can i know why u guys so against matriculation system? actually it's o bcoz that u hv struggle so hard for ur stpm? n feeling tat da government system is unfair to u? no doubt that stpm is harder n hv a higher standard than matriculation.. but, try to think bout it, wat if u hv been chosen for matriculation system? would u go? if not, then u should also try to think from their side.. get wat i trying to mean.. actually, in dis world, there's alot of unfairness, but, being mature, we should also think for other ppl too.. maybe to u, matriculation is as easy as abc, but wat if u r there? in matriculation system? there's alot more things that u need to worry about too? for example, my seniors, chinese, from matriculation system, they hv a hard time in university n it's not becoz their studies but da ppl there! they hv been look down just becoz they come from matriculation n being bully or even being boycott..

from here, wat i was just trying to say is think about other ppl's feeling..

[bush]

matriculation is one of the reasons why the entire education system in malaysia sucks, so much so that we produce fools to flood the market.....

[byzhanii_bogn]

i'm not going to be rude to anyone here. but i can't judge either. becuase i'm following the system that everyone is bashing on here. when we had MUET speaking exam the other day, a guy asked me if i'm still confident of getting 4 flat, since he knew that i applied for JPA and that i scored all A1s in my SPM. but i had no luck. so when we were in the quarantine room the other day, he asked me "do u believe it when people say straight As scorer in SPM is sure to get 4 flat in matric?" i said "no". reason? u won't want to know, because whatever i say, u're going to bite me back.

perhaps u might want to say it's those matric students who entered MU that caused UM to slide down the ranking. up to u.

perhaps u want to saymatric students are not as mature as stpm students. fine.

perhaps u want to say matric is as easy as abc. fine.

but my friend who is under jpa scholarshp, doing a levels, told me that his syllabus is pretty much like the same as what we studied in form 4 and form 5.

i'm not saying anything.

i won't say matric is hard, nor will i say it's easy. but i won't say stpm is easy too, becuase it is hard. i did stpm objective questions when we were preparing for our finals. i won't say it's easy nor would i say it's hard. it's okay.

our syllabus is not exactly the same as stpm. take maths for example. for absolute values, we have 2 methods in solving the problem: squaring both sides and definition. my friend from matric asked his friend in form six an absolute problem once, his form six friend said they only learnt squaring both sides. so it's just this little little things. i won't say ours are hard. because ours are quite easy sometimes. but it's not the same all the time.

that's all. thank you.

[tar3panDa]

i'm not going to be rude to anyone here. but i can't judge either. becuase i'm following the system that everyone is bashing on here. when we had MUET speaking exam the other day, a guy asked me if i'm still confident of getting 4 flat, since he knew that i applied for JPA and that i scored all A1s in my SPM. but i had no luck. so when we were in the quarantine room the other day, he asked me "do u believe it when people say straight As scorer in SPM is sure to get 4 flat in matric?" i said "no". reason? u won't want to know, because whatever i say, u're going to bite me back.

perhaps u might want to say it's those matric students who entered MU that caused UM to slide down the ranking. up to u.

perhaps u want to saymatric students are not as mature as stpm students. fine.

perhaps u want to say matric is as easy as abc. fine.

but my friend who is under jpa scholarshp, doing a levels, told me that his syllabus is pretty much like the same as what we studied in form 4 and form 5.

i'm not saying anything.

i won't say matric is hard, nor will i say it's easy. but i won't say stpm is easy too, becuase it is hard. i did stpm objective questions when we were preparing for our finals. i won't say it's easy nor would i say it's hard. it's okay.

our syllabus is not exactly the same as stpm. take maths for example. for absolute values, we have 2 methods in solving the problem: squaring both sides and definition. my friend from matric asked his friend in form six an absolute problem once, his form six friend said they only learnt squaring both sides. so it's just this little little things. i won't say ours are hard. because ours are quite easy sometimes. but it's not the same all the time.

that's all. thank you.

ya i'll give u my fully support.. :)

those who say matriks is not good or low standard are juz because they didn't get the chance to enter matriks and they are juz feeling jealous.. to those people, don't say something isn't good before u experienced it..

[bush]

ya i'll give u my fully support.. :)

those who say matriks is not good or low standard are juz because they didn't get the chance to enter matriks and they are juz feeling jealous.. to those people, don't say something isn't good before u experienced it..

Why can't they say it because it is the truth?

Let's see, Everybody says UM is lousy, does it mean that they are saying that because they fail to get a place there?

Another thing, I have not killed anyone yet, so from what you said, I shouldn't say that 'killing someone isn't good' simply because I have not experience the process of killing someone yet. Am I correct?

[tar3panDa]

ya i'll give u my fully support.. :)

those who say matriks is not good or low standard are juz because they didn't get the chance to enter matriks and they are juz feeling jealous.. to those people, don't say something isn't good before u experienced it..

Why can't they say it because it is the truth?

Let's see, Everybody says UM is lousy, does it mean that they are saying that because they fail to get a place there?

Another thing, I have not killed anyone yet, so from what you said, I shouldn't say that 'killing someone isn't good' simply because I have not experience the process of killing someone yet. Am I correct?

these are two different cases alright? this only shows that u r too childish for saying something before u have the evidence..

[tar3panDa]

Sorry to interrupt.. but.. can i know why u guys so against matriculation system? actually it's o bcoz that u hv struggle so hard for ur stpm? n feeling tat da government system is unfair to u? no doubt that stpm is harder n hv a higher standard than matriculation.. but, try to think bout it, wat if u hv been chosen for matriculation system? would u go? if not, then u should also try to think from their side.. get wat i trying to mean.. actually, in dis world, there's alot of unfairness, but, being mature, we should also think for other ppl too.. maybe to u, matriculation is as easy as abc, but wat if u r there? in matriculation system? there's alot more things that u need to worry about too? for example, my seniors, chinese, from matriculation system, they hv a hard time in university n it's not becoz their studies but da ppl there! they hv been look down just becoz they come from matriculation n being bully or even being boycott..

from here, wat i was just trying to say is think about other ppl's feeling..

ya u are right.. those people are not thinking about other's feeling.. nothing comes easy ok.. maybe u will say matriculation is easier compare to stpm. but pls imagine, what the students of matriculation face? they hav to stay far away from home, with ppl of different races n culture, experiencing different lifestyle from all of us.. u think it's easy..? i remember a fren of mine told me he even cried at the first two weeks in matriculation coz' of stress.. hav u face this situation before? if no, pls dun think matriculation is easy!

[bush]

ya i'll give u my fully support.. :)

those who say matriks is not good or low standard are juz because they didn't get the chance to enter matriks and they are juz feeling jealous.. to those people, don't say something isn't good before u experienced it..

Why can't they say it because it is the truth?

Let's see, Everybody says UM is lousy, does it mean that they are saying that because they fail to get a place there?

Another thing, I have not killed anyone yet, so from what you said, I shouldn't say that 'killing someone isn't good' simply because I have not experience the process of killing someone yet. Am I correct?

these are two different cases alright? this only shows that u r too childish for saying something before u have the evidence..

Different? How different? Point out the difference if there is.

Quote. those who say matriks is not good or low standard are juz because they didn't get the chance to enter matriks and they are juz feeling jealous Unquote.

From your own words, You are too childish for saying something before you have the evidence.

The truth is always there, again I wish to ask, why can't they say that simply because it is the truth?

And yeah. Everybody knows that UM is lousy and are those who are saying it feel jealous because they can't get a place there?

[meselsohnstahl]

i dont think its a matter of jealousy here...the not good or low standard, well, i guess its good considering its a one year programme.. as for how good it is compared to stpm and a levels, just ask a lecturer in university.....

my mum's a lecturer in an engineering uni... and she says that matrik students will seriously have problems if they enter university(for engineering).. mostly cause their maths is too shallow... even a level maths is insufficient if one wishes to do engineering.. u'll need a level further maths if u wish to not do foundation maths in uni...

if u say that matriculation is hard because u have to stay far away from home, what about ppl like me who had to go to mrsm in perlis in form 4 when my family are in subang jaya, selangor.... and im sure there are stpm students who have to live far away from home.. its just that u dont know any...

did u know that imperial college does not accept matriculation but it does recognise STPM?

well, does imperial accept sam/ausmat?? if they do, it must be based on a case to case basis.. so, if an exceptionally good student applies to study in imperial, he might just get in...

[bush]

well, does imperial accept sam/ausmat?? if they do, it must be based on a case to case basis.. so, if an exceptionally good student applies to study in imperial, he might just get in...

Yes, they do. SAM and AUSMAT is similar to A-levels/STPM as they are moderated by an examining body. Our government matriculation is internally assessed, though some may argue that it has standards, it is very difficult to convince the public simply because it is not transparent.

[meselsohnstahl]

well, does imperial accept sam/ausmat?? if they do, it must be based on a case to case basis.. so, if an exceptionally good student applies to study in imperial, he might just get in...

Yes, they do. SAM and AUSMAT is similar to A-levels/STPM as they are moderated by an examining body. Our government matriculation is internally assessed, though some may argue that it has standards, it is very difficult to convince the public simply because it is not transparent.

yes.. but its only a one year programme..and dont they also have internal asessments? wont it be hard for a person in ausmat to actually get an offer??

i mean, i know lse accepts sam, but u'll have to be very very good.. dont know bout ausmay tho..

[bush]

yes.. but its only a one year programme..and dont they also have internal asessments? wont it be hard for a person in ausmat to actually get an offer??

i mean, i know lse accepts sam, but u'll have to be very very good.. dont know bout ausmay tho..

Without a doubt, you must be good to gain admission.


Even certain modules of the A-levels are internally assessed, but that is not the point. Our government matriculation does not have a regulating body, matriculation colleges are free to do whatever they want and because of that, anything can happen. Unlike our matriculation, ausmat and sam have bodies such as SABBSA and so on, these bodies are there to ensure standards are maintained.

[Remnant]

Sorry, didn't bother to read the middle few pages. Too long.. :P

Even certain parts of the STPM examination is internally assessed (i.e. the practical work for science subjects)

Yep, reality is harsh, many people who whine about not getting a JPA scholarship is rather childish, they should know that there are very limited spaces. It's like a car with 5 seats, and 20 people are rushing to get on it. Atleast the government made a right move, letting us know the number of scholarships and applicants.

There are bound to be people who are disappointed. It's not one's right for a JPA scolarship even if you scored straight As for SPM. Just be more understanding. Life's not fair. It never will be.

There was one who wrote to the newspapers recently (The Star), saying that she was a top scorer in her school for SPM and was denied a JPA scolarship. Now she's saying that she's one of the top scorers for STPM in the nation. Well, probably she was wasn't given a scholarship due to bad luck (she might've deserved it more than others) or because she didn't shine during the interview.
And maybe she did well for STPM because those who are better than her, probably got the JPA scholarship and went overseas to further their studies already. It's no use for whining now, just accept it and move on with life. Don't make it as if it's the JPA's mistake for not offering a scholarship. They're in a rather tough position too.

Even many teachers said that the matrik studends would have a significantly tougher first year for their degree programs (university). I guess, that's what they'd expect for stuffing 18 months work into 11 months? Hmmm... You'd save a year, but gotta play catchup for the following year. It's sorta like a tradeoff.

And on the 4A 5A spm people doing better than 10A people in matrik? Well.. even in STPM, 6A people might do better than 11A people. It's a different playing field. something different like PMR to SPM. So be it for SPM and STPM/Matrik. Well, STPM isn't all that hard and Matrik isn't all that easy.

Well, the most apparent advantage of STPM over Matrik is that it's internationally recognised.
IMHO, if you don't plan to study overseas, go for matrik, much easier to score and get a nice spot at a local uni.
Get a spot first, worry about the first year later.. As long as you get a nice spot, everything would be fine i guess ;)

[Remnant]

Just my 2 cents. :wink:

Edit: Sorry for double posting. My previous post didn't turn up on my browser. There was some server error while posting that message.