Freedom to Arm

[__earth]

About a year or so ago, an assault rifle ban introduced by the Clinton Administration lapsed. Many predicted an increase in crime with the ban lapse. And it has been a natural experiment ever since. My econ prof said during the day of the lapse, America is a great country, but it's a weird one. With the regression analysis of firearm on crime in mind, I agreed with him then.

However, despite the prediction, according to NYT here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/national/24guns.html?pagewanted=2&hp) (reg. req.), crime has not risen, at least not significantly from what I understand from the article. Really suprising to me and it only strengthens my opinion on the freedom to arm. Do note however that the assault rifle ban was somewhat ineffective because it banned a subset of firearms.

I'm kind of divided on whether we should have free access to firearm (or at least easily obtained license like those of vehicle licenses) or we should ban firearm from the public altogether. One part of me thinks we should be allowed to own firearms ( I've held a "senapang patah" a few times but never fired it) or we shoud all be happy with the current status in Malaysia.

IMO, if all private citizens were to be allowed to arm oneselves, then those bag-snatchers, thieves, etc would have to think twice or thrice before they act. Furthermore, to those who are in love of CS, Quake etc, shooting is fun! You must agree!

At the same time, I'm a green and I find myself quite irritated seeing another hunting season on the horizon.

In the light of this finding by NYT, what is your opinion on freedom to arm?

Nevertheless, I'm quite ignorant of the current firearm status in Malaysia. If anybody has some info to offer, do share it.

Without question (but of course, being recom you can question), an unarmed society would lead to fewer violent crimes. If crooks don't have easy access to guns, then they're less able to commit crimes that lead to serious injury or death.

Now, your argument that arming people with guns prevent snatch thieves is flawed in that these thieves themselves will have guns! Would someone sane go in a gun fight over say a wallet?

The problem with the US is that guns already exists in the hands of many of its civilians. It's just impossible to make them disappear overnight and therefore people feel that guns make them safe (because nearly every other person can own a gun). So, it's basically like a chicken and egg problem.

However, banning assault rifles is a no-brainer-- you don't need an automatic assault rifle to protect yourself, do you? The name already suggest it, assault rifles are meant for assaults, not protection (well, perhaps protection against police when you assault others).

[ElansarGelmir]

It depends on the context of the environment and the people. The main objective of the second amendment is to promote security to the people from the government (back to the confucian times). I doubt that our present govt want that to happen in case some party overthrow them by arms.

Secondly, the Americans are more civic minded, and more likely to think twice about the consequences before usingg those weapons, while Malaysia has way too many extremists that would gladly abuse those weapons. Plus, I don't think that Malaysia's public security system is as capable of handling firearm abuse situations as the States's.

[__earth]

Without question (but of course, being recom you can question), an unarmed society would lead to fewer violent crimes. If crooks don't have easy access to guns, then they're less able to commit crimes that lead to serious injury or death.

At the same time, potential victim won't be able to protect themselves from an armed crook.

Now, your argument that arming people with guns prevent snatch thieves is flawed in that these thieves themselves will have guns! Would someone sane go in a gun fight over say a wallet?

The point is valid.

Would somebody sane snatch a wallet from an armed citizen? Would a gunfight worth the wallet, with both the thief and the potential victim know that each other is armed?

This is exactly the idea. It makes the average cost of stealing or committing crime in general higher.

[Salvation]

I think that both are around the same. Chicken and egg situation. But I would go for the present status in Malaysia. At least you don't have students bringing guns into school and killing a few people before comitting suicide.

[iQing]

ban letal firearm (we do not need to kill to protect ourself)

and approve non-lethal arm. (spray, rubber bullets)

Would somebody sane snatch a wallet from an armed citizen? Would a gunfight worth the wallet, with both the thief and the potential victim know that each other is armed?

No, but thieves are not exactly sane. They commit a crime which they might gain a few dollars, but risk imprisonment for many years.

[digimushu]

:)

much as I am all for the right of protecting ourselves, i must say that Malaysians are not ready to take up arms and be responsible. even our police only have dinky little revolvers that are probably dated in the colonial times. I can see that we will be severely outgunned in the event of a firefight.

Maybe the solution is one of those 'stunner's (u know, the one that can electrocute someone). My sister had one when she was in the US and she said it helped her to repel some guys that were making untoward advances.

[sno]

I think that both are around the same. Chicken and egg situation. But I would go for the present status in Malaysia. At least you don't have students bringing guns into school and killing a few people before comitting suicide.

yea, giving guns to teens is dangerous...we are impulsive n rebellious, i know i have the insanity streak in me, can't trust myself with a gun while talking to a person i can't stand... :twisted: :twisted:

and approve non-lethal arm. (spray, rubber bullets)Maybe the solution is one of those 'stunner's (u know, the one that can electrocute someone). My sister had one when she was in the US and she said it helped her to repel some guys that were making untoward advances

yea these type of things can come in handy at times....but i 've never seen them on sale, are they illegal?

[iQing]

We need some martial arts skills too...

such as the pressure point weakening finger method
or chakra/chi flow damaging fist.















改变不能接受的，接受不能改变的-- 王喜--- tvb 追魂交易

[iQing]

yea these type of things can come in handy at times....but i 've never seen them on sale, are they illegal?


I think I have seen the pepper spray a few times already.
If not mistaken I have seen it in JUSCO midvalley..
But it is very expensive







改变不能接受的，接受不能改变的-- 王喜--- tvb 追魂交易

[PJKru]

I think something that cant do any permanent damage is not so bad. But pepper spray could probably kill people with respiratory problems, i dont know?

[PJKru]

I think something that cant do any permanent damage is not so bad. But pepper spray could probably kill people with respiratory problems, i dont know?

[iQing]

Killing for self defense purpose is not guilty.
If the attacker dies, it is not the defender?s fault.

It is better for the attacker to die than for the victim to get killed/raped.








改变不能接受的，接受不能改变的-- 王喜--- tvb 追魂交易

[__earth]

Would somebody sane snatch a wallet from an armed citizen? Would a gunfight worth the wallet, with both the thief and the potential victim know that each other is armed?

No, but thieves are not exactly sane. They commit a crime which they might gain a few dollars, but risk imprisonment for many years.

They do that because they have a chance to get away. It's all about cost and benefit - it's still rational and sane. Like in economics, it's depends on preference and risk adversion and each individual preference is not likely the same. Your pattern of risk adversion might be different from others.

[PJKru]

I think more guns leads to more crime. Simple as that. I think instead of everyone being allowed to own a gun maybe nobody should be allowed to own a gun. I mean people have to get real. What we're talking about with the whole issue is ending a persons life and that life is sacred only for god to take. Nobody should take life. With all the crime and everything being glorified in the media it is just another victory for satan if you ask me.

[lolilo]

The freedom to arm is still quite restricted in malaysia and I think i am quite satisfied with it.

Try to imagine if one day every kid has a license to get a fire weapon, brr..... even without guns , the things that ppl can do are already beyond description---rape and kill-with a blade....

[sno]

found some recipes to make pepper spray....but dunno bout their credibilities

http://www.rotteneggs.com/r3/show/se/28091.html

http://www.rotteneggs.com/r3/show/se/50462.html

http://www.rotteneggs.com/r3/show/se/43706.html

http://www.rotteneggs.com/r3/show/se/46924.html

happy pepper spraying, ppl!

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Isn't freedom to arm the reason why American kids are splattering each other on school walls?