Aspects to Improve For Malaysia

[chenchow]

"Driving habits, dirty toilets and littering are top among what expatriates living in Malaysia dislike about the country, according to a survey conducted by a magazine. "

What do you think are the few things that Malaysia really needs to improve? Lets come up with constructive idea and may be if each of us over here, do our part, at least there would be a little bit effect for the country.

[bachok83]

from my point of view... some malaysians are narrow minded....

Malaysians have to change the way they think and the way they appear in public. If these thing fixed, then other bad things will automatically change.

I think the most important is, they have to "BERSATU".... THAT's ALL...

seems easy right?? NO !! you are wrong....it's the hardest thing that Malaysian cant do...

[z]

We need a common goal to unite the nation.

Vision 2020 is great. Unfortunately, it doesn't relate to all Malaysians in a concrete manner.

Religion is a powerful tool, but as we can see, it proves to be equally destructive too when misused by people with vested interests.

What is the common goal of Malaysia? Live harmoniously with people of all creeds, beliefs, blah blah blah...? What about advancement and progress? How many people actually know our national philosophy (if any)?

Also, to ensure that every citizen actually understand the common goal, we need to improve our education system.

[z]

I should also point out that the increasing (perhaps?) gap between urban and rural folks deters the progress of the nation as a whole.

Look at our neighbor - Singapore - who is no doubt doing much better than us. We observe that their "kiasu"ness pushes them to achieve greater heights. Their education is par excellence and their income per capita is also higher than us. I'm not sure about this, but I'm quite certain that the gap (education, finance) between Singaporeans is much smaller. Perhaps that explains why they have a more "progressive" mentality?

Granted, Singapore is small and much easier to manage.

[masterof_none]

Although we can't really compare the performance of Singapore in terms of their achievement and economic condition, there;s one factor that S'poreans excels, they introduce competition.
yes, competetition is the key. Why Japanese is so advanced? Because it competes with the US. Why Korea is now progressing rapidly?, because it compete with it's mighty neighbor Japan. why Taiwanese is also progressing rapidly? because they compete with Japanese and Koreans.

But we Malaysians almost always refuse to have competition with Singaporeans. we think they're out of their mind just because their Kiasu.
Some Malaysian thinks that, "oh, Singapore is small " but we don;t have to care about that.Why? Because we don;t have to.
We care about their growth, their GDP, standard of living and how we can outperform them, not wasting time belittling them.

Of course we also must take into account about religion , the culture , environmentm "cintai sungai kita" , etc. but that doesn;t mean we will become third world people forever.
So, the ingredient is, we must compete. and that's how we want to survive in the free market.

actually, I prefer not to use word "third world" country to refer to our country. Because that introduce inferiority among us.

[z]

really good point.
the free market is indeed a brutal environment, it's a test of the fittest, and the strongest survives.

however, the strong tend to get stronger, the rich richer and vice versa.
the US have anti-trust laws to prevent monopoly.

the malaysian gov realizes this situation, and being a good government, protects it's market from external pressure. unfortunately, we've become too reliant of such support and lost our competitive edge.

the implimentation of university admissions based on meritocracy is a good start. the gov is sending a clear message to the younger generation that competition is the key to success.

yet, we loathe the idea of a merciless environment where overzealous people ruthlessly crush their competition. at the same time, we also reject the idea of (the realistic) communism.

what we need is a minimally governed domain where we can have healthy competition.

[chenchow]

I definitely agree that healthy competition does spur everyone to do their utmost best. However, I think the best way would be taking away the crutches gradually. Taking it at one go, would make everything screwed up. I think Abdullah Badawi mentioned about the government is bringing in healthy competition gradually and I think it is a good way to get people accustomed to it.

I think the way to deal with this problem would be to promote integration, where everyone understands the give and take. We should work on integrating and expanding the economic pie. That would bring benefits to everyone. If we are just dealing with it distributively, one party's gain would be the other party's loss. In the long run, it would not do any good.

I think another matter of importance would be to bring up the quality of our local universities and colleges. I do think that having more universities and university colleges would be a great idea, but I think we should all remember to maintain and strengthen the quality of those institutions. What do you guys think about those colleges like LKW, Sunway, Inti, PTPTL, KBU,.... are going to or have already get permit to operate as university colleges..

On Singapore, I think we should definitely try our best to improve ourselves at least up to where they are in those aspects that they are better. I think we have to have the mentality that we are not inferior to Singapore. There are certain aspects that we are much better. I think Malaysian education syllabus are more well-rounded than Singapore for certain aspect. We can see that those Malaysians who have learned in BM for 11 or 12 years and when they get to Singapore, they do not find much trouble coping with studies in English, competing against those Singaporeans and other students studying there. I think may be what Malaysia can do is to bring in top students to study in Malaysia.

[chenchow]

I think the main point would be the 9 challenges of Vision 2020

The first of these is the challenges of establishing a united Malaysian nation with a sense of common and shared destiny. This must be a nation at peace with itself, territorially and ethnically integrated, living in harmony and full and fair partnership, made up of one 'Bangsa Malaysia' with political loyalty and dedication to the nation.

The second is the challenge of creating a psychologically liberated, secure, and developed Malaysian Society with faith and confidence in itself, justifiably proud of what it is, of what it has accomplished, robust enough to face all manner of adversity. This Malaysian Society must be distinguished by the pursuit of excellence, fully aware of all its potentials, psychologically subservient to none, and respected by the peoples of other nations.

The third challenge we have always faced is that of fostering and developing a mature democratic society, practising a form of mature consensual, community-oriented Malaysian democracy that can be a model for many developing countries.

The fourth is the challenge of establishing a fully moral and ethical society, whose citizens are strong in religious and spiritual values and imbued with the highest of ethical standards.

The fifth challenge that we have always faced is the challenge of establishing a matured, liberal and tolerant society in which Malaysians of all colours and creeds are free to practise and profess their customs,cultures and religious beliefs and yet feeling that they belong to one nation.

The sixth is the challenge of establishing a scientific and progressive society, a society that is innovative and forward-looking, one that is not only a consumer of technology but also a contributor to the scientific and technological civilisation of the future.

The seventh challenge is the challenge of establishing a fully caring society and a caring culture, a social system in which society will come before self, in which the welfare of the people will revolve not around the state or the individual but around a strong and resilient family system.

The eighth is the challenge of ensuring an economically just society. This is a society in which there is a fair and equitable distribution of the wealth of the nation, in which there is full partnership in economic progress. Such a society cannot be in place so long as there is the identification of race with economic function, and the identification of economic backwardness with race.

The ninth challenge is the challenge of establishing a prosperous society, with an economy that is fully competitive, dynamic, robust and resilient. We have already come a long way towards the fulfilment of these objectives. The nine central objectives listed need not be our order of priorities over the next three decades. Most obviously, the priorities of any moment in time must meet the specific circumstances of that moment in time.

[taufiq]

Still I think, it's the people..
how we interact and with each other
and how we react to a certain situation
the vision and the mission is there
but if the people is not 'compatible' enough
to work out the plan.. nothing gonna change

[WilliamLee]

Malaysia is a wonderful country.
Malaysia has plenty of talent (I refer talent to the enterprising, intellegent people like you)
At times, I feel sad when Malaysia loses her talents to other coutries, notably: Singapore, USA.
However, I am encouraged by the fact that for the past generations, year in year out, Malaysia is still able to supply her talents to other countries. This proves a point that Malaysia has a non-exhaustive ability to produce talents, and I believe this can go on for generations to come.

I believe that Malaysia has plenty of potential to do better than it is now.
Just imagine if Malaysia's talents do channel their energy towards the growth of our country...that's going to be interesting.

I applaud fellow Malaysians that have achieved success in their respective area of interests in other countries, they make our country stand high among the others.

For now....something has to be done to preserve our talents

[littlebigone]

Useless fact: The ratio of views to posts in this topic is more than 17 to 1

[chenchow]

While I hope that more people would post message, the fact that this topic generates a pretty high viewing, says something....At least,we could bring upon the topic to others.

I fully agree with the talent retention problem. I think we have seen so many of our talents flowing out of our country. I met one of the Caltex consultant not too long ago and I asked him about Malaysia, he said watch out for the country south of you, but remember that most of their excelled one actually come from Malaysia.... That's sad, but at least it says something of our education system. While many may complaint that it is not good, at the minimum, we are still producing some good talents, who would most likely still have at least a little bit of Malaysianism within themselves.

[Thirdshifter]

Remember it takes time to spread the wealth ang getting infrastructure build for everyone.

Singapore is a bad comparison to Malaysia. Its like orange apples.

Lets try Indonesia, or Thailand or India.

I believe those 3 countries are in the same league.

Singapore is what is today because of it's Diplomatic ties with USA and UK. I'm sure most of you know that USA and UK have full access to all military bases and equipments in Singapore. Hence the economy of Singapore is guaranteed. It has nothing to do with "kiasu"

For Malaysia on the other hand demographic speaking is almost 50/50. So Racial indifference is huge. As we all know these popular facts, Chinese = Business, Malay = Agriculture, Indian = Both.

So now since the Goverment would more probably grant a federal contract to a Malay Businessman to Even out the Business world Racially it would only get worst, racial indifferences that is.

So we move on to religion.. bad Idea.

Now Education. There i see hope. The education system in Malaysia needs absolute reform esspcially the History lessons. The text books today are to Political motivated. I see Goverment propaganda written all over it.

Even some of the most important history events are skipped. Eg, Why Singapore joined and left the Federation. Why did the British Leave.

If the author of the poll could edit it. Please put in better education. Thats the key to a Better Malaysia.

[chenchow]

first of all, i think i have to thank thirdshifter for your interest in recom and also many interesting posts.....

i agree that it takes time to spread the wealth and malaysia is doing quite well in it, although it is very tough to do so..

i just remembered yesterday telling a few malaysians about singapore being bad comparison to malaysia...if say, malaysia is just penang island or kuala lumpur and everything that is earned there is spent there....we would be as developed as singapore as well...now, we need to do cross-subsidizing, where the amount earned in MSC etc are being spent evenly in other parts of the country...and it is happening all over the world and it is essential...

cross-subsidizing is also the reason why our CDs are so expensive....a professor from wharton came to cornell a couple of days ago and he spoke of those record companies have to earn a lot to cross-subsidize their effort in unearth talent.....they may need to invest quite a lot of money to unearth talent and promote their songs..say they find 10 talents and promote them, eventually one or two of those singers are very successful, yet the companies have to spend so much so find that one or two top singers, so the amount earned from those top singers' albums need to be earned to cross-subsidize their investment in other singers' who eventually did not become successful....

[Thirdshifter]

cross-subsidizing is also the reason why our CDs are so expensive....a professor from wharton came to cornell a couple of days ago and he spoke of those record companies have to earn a lot to cross-subsidize their effort in unearth talent.....they may need to invest quite a lot of money to unearth talent and promote their songs..say they find 10 talents and promote them, eventually one or two of those singers are very successful, yet the companies have to spend so much so find that one or two top singers, so the amount earned from those top singers' albums need to be earned to cross-subsidize their investment in other singers' who eventually did not become successful....

I hope you don't buy that argument.
Most Records don't unearth talent. They just sell the artiste. For example, Britney spears.

She was in the business since 9-10. Michael jackson 7-8? years old. Most other artist comes from clubs or Local bands that get a shot in a local arena. Ussually Radio stations are the one that unearth their talents.

RIAA and its subsidaries are blowing of so much cash on things like paying 50 million to Mariah carey to Record an album. They spoiled the artist the have and are left with none.

Also since napster started file swapping. RIAA is just finding another cause why they're loosing money.

How many did actually buy CDs before napster was out?

Most people that buy music keep buying them.

I think RIAA sold more CDs then the previous year. Theyre' predicting the sales will be less this year.. and blaming kazaa p2p etc..

RIAA, its called bad economics.

[littlebigone]

cross-subsidizing is also the reason why our CDs are so expensive....a professor from wharton came to cornell a couple of days ago and he spoke of those record companies have to earn a lot to cross-subsidize their effort in unearth talent.....they may need to invest quite a lot of money to unearth talent and promote their songs..say they find 10 talents and promote them, eventually one or two of those singers are very successful, yet the companies have to spend so much so find that one or two top singers, so the amount earned from those top singers' albums need to be earned to cross-subsidize their investment in other singers' who eventually did not become successful....

I hope you don't buy that argument.
Most Records don't unearth talent. They just sell the artiste. For example, Britney spears.

She was in the business since 9-10. Michael jackson 7-8? years old. Most other artist comes from clubs or Local bands that get a shot in a local arena. Ussually Radio stations are the one that unearth their talents.

RIAA and its subsidaries are blowing of so much cash on things like paying 50 million to Mariah carey to Record an album. They spoiled the artist the have and are left with none.

Also since napster started file swapping. RIAA is just finding another cause why they're loosing money.

How many did actually buy CDs before napster was out?

Most people that buy music keep buying them.

I think RIAA sold more CDs then the previous year. Theyre' predicting the sales will be less this year.. and blaming kazaa p2p etc..

RIAA, its called bad economics.



Britney spears has been in the business since 9 or 10... I suppose she would have gone big by herself without any record company promoting her ass off. You're generalizing the whole record industry by using britney and michael as an example. Even michael was discovered and promoted through a recording company. I;m sorry sir but I don't buy your argument that radio stations unearth talent. Only place where that can possible happen is maybe in college radio stations. Other stations are making sure they play mainstream pop to keep the advertisers lined up. And they would only play new stuff if it's part of a promotion by record companies.



I have one more stick about britney spears. She has no talent. So without the record company to "unearth" her "talent", she'll still be hanging out with mickey and friends. Maybe.

[Thirdshifter]

Actually, Radio stations do play Songs that aren't mainstream. If your talking about Radio Station like.. Hot FM or KISS FM which are TOP 40s of course not.

Almost all states have Local Channels.

A good example would be the Hit Song.. By Vanila Ice - Ice Ice Baby.

That song was played by a local Florida DJ and was disturbuted by him to his peers.

[James]

1) MInd set on zero sum game by the leaders-- the leader have to change their mind set on if Chinese win, Malays would loss or If Malay Win, Chinese would loss. To make the country successful, we need to make full use of the strength of all races irrespective of whic race they came from. Imagine if you can have a handful of Bill Gate, the country GDP/GNP can be easily triple. Malaysian changes would be a lot more effective to drive from the top, ie change first from the top.

[masterof_none]

I hope you can elaborate more on how are they going to change from the top.

From my personal opinion, when something is not quite right , don't hope somebody would fix it. We've got to fix it ourselves. You suggested that the 'top' should change than it would be more effective. No doubt and I fully agree with that.

But think about this : Is it going to be politically popular?. Who do you think will start first?. Pak Lah?. are the people going to vote to the politician who popularized the idea proposed by you?

My question to ourselves is : why should we the people hoping those political bureaucrats doing something and we just sit there and do nothing.

The people must play the part. Only when the people come and say :
"Hey , we don't mind about this idea", then only the people at the 'top' realize that it isn't bad idea .

Actually, this is the formula envisioned by Datuk Onn Jaafar long time ago with his UMNO, the party that he founded. Guess what, he was ousted by his own party.

[masterof_none]

That's the price for a politician who popularized the idea
one nation, one race (Bangsa Malaysia ) has to pay

If the movement started from people, I think, it would be more effective.

[chenchow]

I would argue that concerted effort between people and leaders would be more effective!!!

[littlebigone]

i feel very negative about the topic. I don't think people can do much. There is rarely any sudden spark of communal enlightenment that rallies people across Malaysia to fight for a stand. More often than not, someone as a leader has to point out some dissatisfaction and get people to support him. Then that someone becomes a politician. And then that someone gets his mind clouded and moves away from the original purpose and now instead uses sweet words and talks to get more support. Soon, his goal is not the betterment of the people but to win votes in elections.

Especially now, many people are not as visionary as we want them to be. Complacency and the very common Malaysian "tidak apa" attitude combine to make a cocktail of stagnation for the Malaysian economy.

My argument is that to make the change, it has to come from the top. The public working as a mass cannot incite change. There is no form and order to their cause. They need a person to lead and direct their efforts like dumb sheep led to the grazing fields by a shepherd. This person may have initially been just "one of the masses". but this person has to resist corruption by power. So you people out there who want to make a change, you have to get some leverage first. Hopefully, from a higher level of credibility, your voice and opinions will be heeded.

Same as recom. We've been trying to get more members to be more active; to actually make this site have an impact. Are we actually achieving that? I think the step to get some form of affliation with promuda is a very good step. perhaps more thought and effort should be given to such endeavors.

[masterof_none]

Yeah, I'm still not satisfied with ReCom's achievement so far.

I would like to thanks to you guys who give wonderful support to us.

We did email Promuda(twice) , but they haven;t responded yet (except the auto reply email). we're still waiting. but if they don;t respond within one-two more week, we'll do something else to get their attention.

By the way, I'm seduced with littlebigone's argument.

[littlebigone]

i was just thinking that we Malaysians are very focused on the quantity and grandeur of things rather than the quality. Maybe we should change this. Yes we've achieved a lot in the past 20 years or so. The number of universities in Malaysia has increased, but at the same time the standard of our premier university has decreased. We hear of hundreds of people achieving full A1's for SPM but is it really a show of our advancement in the intellectual world. Our literacy rate is something to be proud of but how many people actually use their ability to read critically and to think about what they read.

We have extra classes and stuff and put so much stress on the younger kids. Why? Because we care about them therefore more classes will be beneficial? Maybe it's because the quality of teachers are so low that they can't teach the material in the given time. Hence the need for 'extra' classes.

Also, I really don't understand the need for Malaysians to sail around the world or climb mount everest or put a proton in the north pole. What does this prove? That we're capable of doing great things? In the end, how does this help improve my life and your life? How does all this fit in the whole picture? Some may argue that we need such endeavors to cultivate a Malaysia boleh attitude in the people. Or to instill confidence in the people. I ask you, how many Malaysians while they're going about with their daily lives go "hmmmm, a Malaysian has climbed to the peak of Mt. Everest, therefore I believe that I can become a super succesful entrepeneur in the global tech field. Woohoo Malaysia Boleh!!!"

Just another thought in my qualityless life.

[Thirdshifter]

Highest, Tallest, Longest, Deepest, Oldest, Youngest And a lot of bunch other of 'est.

The Malaysian bolehism: The Patriotic Phenomenon.

Like many other young Nation throughout this world, we strive for recognition.

Bolehism, Which started in the early 90s or perhaps late 80s was one of the reason Malaysian, if not all but most definitely a large chunk of them started to wave Jalur Gemilang (Malaysian Flag) for Malaysian. The goverment knows there's not alot of Proud Malaysians. We were consistenly back in the 80s comparing ourself to Singapore and their success. We hated to refer to ourself as north of Singapore, or going to the further extent to claim that oh Singapore? That used to be under Malaysia.

Solution? Bolehism. The goverment did such a great job. They played more hip patriotic sounds. They named the flag. The even try to change the beat in the original Neragaku song. They sent Malaysian all over the world just so a Malaysian could say... oh a Malaysian did this, or did that. We have this and that. This is what generates economy even if not directly it works.

Having one of the talllest building in the world did made Malaysia synonymous to A leading developing country. I'm sure it raised the level of patriotism.

Like us here in this board. The generation that grew up listening to songs like Boleh! and many other sound alike songs. We probably have the most intimate relationship with our country then any other generation that had lived.

We now are Patriotic Malaysians.

[chenchow]

A nice and interesting writing by thirdshifter... it definitely describes the situation most aptly....

But I think while what the government and country has achieved is a pretty large group of apparently patriotic Malaysians, but in reality, if we are to really go deep down and find out how many Malaysians who are really patriotic in every sense (it doesn't mean they have to nod their heads for every decision the country make, but they must really think for Malaysia and make their decision/judgment for the sake of Malaysia), I think the number is pretty low...

Hence, we have to now talk about mengisi kemerdekaan...filling our independence...Our country has achieved independence 46 years ago, and today we are still working hard...

I think that the Malaysia Boleh has served its purpose in promoting a sense of patriotism and boosting self confidence, more needs to be done to really have Malaysians really care for its motherland..

Hopefully Pak Lah could do a good job!!! and it seems that Pak Lah has been having a pretty good start..

[Diesel]

mentality mentality mentality mentality ..... n-mentality 8O

[one-zero]

Hi all, I'm new here and I must say that stumbling upon this website is very timely indeed.

What is patriotism really? Why should we love our country? Simply because we were born and bred there? Because our loved ones are there? Or what? Similarly, why do we love our family? Why do we care for each other, unconditionally? These may sound absurd to ask but I haven't found the answers that I'm looking for. Is it because we are genetically programmed to love those who are related to us by blood? Or is it because it is in our best interest to do so?

Digression: I once asked a group of Malaysians & Singaporeans if they were willing to die for their country. The Singaporeans' answers ranged from the definite 'yes' to 'why not?'; the 3 Malaysians there unanimously answered 'no'. How many of you here are willing to die for your country?
(Assuming that the alternative is a good, healthy life, of course)

Cheers cheers

[chenchow]

Hi, one-zero, welcome to Recom!!!

Please help your best to bring your fellow LSE people and other UK ppl into RECOM!!!

You have posted a very good question. What is patriotism? Why should we love our country?.....

For me, I think each and everyone of us who have grown up in Malaysia should have some sense of patriotism.... Do we owe to our country? I would say that , the phrase "owe" may not be the most appropriate word, but I think we have lived peaceful and enjoy various infrastructure, including free schooling and other facilities, irrespective of our schools, since primary 1. A lot of stuff are subsidized, say the rice that we eat daily in Malaysia, petrol, cooking oil, salt, sugar etc...are all subsidized. Although all those are some kind of transfer payment from tax-payer money, I am sure most of us "profit" from it, unless our parents are in the very high pay scheme, which has very high tax rate....

On the case of the answer of Malaysian and Singaporean, I think it is a small subset, but it is worrying. I am willing to do anything for my country, including die for my country, if the needs arise. People may laugh at it, but those who really know me personally, would understand what I mean. I think it is the spirit of patriotism, that spurs many of us into developing this website for the future of Malaysia, right?

But anyway, one-zero, welcome to Recom!!! and hope that you could share your opinion often. It is a very good post I would say and it struck me for a while and let me ponder on thinking cap..... Please help to spread the words around...

[masterof_none]

Digression: I once asked a group of Malaysians & Singaporeans if they were willing to die for their country. The Singaporeans' answers ranged from the definite 'yes' to 'why not?'; the 3 Malaysians there unanimously answered 'no'. How many of you here are willing to die for your country?
(Assuming that the alternative is a good, healthy life, of course)


yes - why not?

[Thirdshifter]

Will i die for the country? Of course. Would i die for it because of my Corrupted goverment told me to do so? No.

Patriotism and jigoism is totally two different things.

Patriotism

\Pa"tri*ot*ism\, n. [Cf. F. patriotisme.] Love of country; devotion to the welfare of one's country; the virtues and actions of a patriot; the passion which inspires one to serve one's country. --Berkley.

jingoism

\Jin"go*ism\, n an appeal intended to arouse patriotic emotions [syn: flag waving]

[Diesel]

Having one of the talllest building in the world did made Malaysia synonymous to A leading developing country. I'm sure it raised the level of patriotism.

We have such building because we can buy it. We are proud because we have the money to spend on it, not because we are really capable of building it, since most of the construction was done by foreign contractors.
Yes, Malaysia boleh. But I'm sure it would mean a lot more if we "boleh bina sendiri" instead of "boleh beli sahaja".

[chenchow]

It is precisely the final mission, for us to build stuff ourselves, and in fact, it is Recom's vision, where we no longer become the end user, but we are the producer...it is parallel to what you say...

It is true that we use money, and most of the top contractors are not Malaysian, but during the process of building, many thousands of Malaysians are involve in the process of building, be it the process of design, construction or maintenance, I'm sure those Malaysians learn a lot from the project... It could be a very good practice for them, as if they could construct Petronas Twin Tower, I am sure they would soon have the capability to construct some other huge buildings...So, all is not lost..

[Thirdshifter]

Chenchow, the KLCC was designed and built by foreigners in 1998.

Something you might want to know. KOMTAR, the former tallest building in Malaysia (now ranked 97th as the tallest in the world. Was built in the late 70s. Designed and built by local contractor.

It's not that we lack experience or knowledge. It's just our goverment grants the project to the lowest bidder or in this case their biggest campaign contributor.

[one-zero]

Hi chenchow, you've got a very good memory indeed! will spread the words around...

It's really good to know that there are many of you out there who are actually 'patriotic' enough to have the desire to serve our country. Just like it's heartening to know that there's a group of people who believe that together we can make a difference. All too often I'm surrounded by people who think that we're too insignificant to affect any major decisions. People who, when things are not quite right, complain and sit back hoping someone else would do something about it (free rider problem?). So much that I'm beginning to turn into one of them as I get more and more convinced that there isn't anything that I can do about. This is rather worrying, isn't it?

It got me thinking when a friend asked if I'm willing to give up my citizenship (not asking me to die for the country? *phew*) I thought it was a non-issue at that point in time. But on second thoughts, is there a bigger picture to this than merely giving up my rights to vote?

Would it be fair to say that people who think that they have benefited from this system would tend to be more grateful and hence have a greater willlingness to return to serve the country? I think it's human nature to ask what the country has done for me before asking what I can do for the country.

If country = the people who make up a country, and the corrupted government = the government elected by the people (perhaps due to the lack of a better alternative), then would serving the country = serving the corrupted government?

It would be good if it's as simple as calculating how much I 'owe' this country and then repay my debt by paying taxes. =P whenever people talk about 'contributing to the country', 2 things come to mind immediately: pay taxes, and spend money (preferably on locally produced goods) to add to our GDP figure. :wink:

[chenchow]

Thirdshifter, how about the current fiasco of the MMC/Gamuda project on double tracking. It was awarded to them, as they were offered in expense of Ircon and China Railways. Would these affect our bilateral ties with China and India? Is Letter of Intent binding?

Good post, one-zero.... you brought up a lot of good issues for us to ponder on...

On whether we could do anything, as we are only one... Personally, I believe in a positive change, irrespective of how small the change is.... I hope that through Recom, we could spread some awareness and keep Malaysians abreast of current affairs, as well as keep Malaysians networking...Although the benefits seem small, as we are only able to touch way less than 0.01%, but every single soul that we could help, even by encouraging them to work hard or help them gain awareness in learning English, they may in turn help turn others and with this chain reaction, something could be done..... If we do not try our best, we would get nothing..so anything is better than nothing... Lets work hard together...!!!

[Schye]

I think that we need to know MORE about OURSELVES@<hidden> of us don?t even know much about other races and to be frank, I don?t think that our multiracial country is really in peace. There are still many misunderstanding among each other. The education system in Malaysia has seriously divided us to study in an environment where we wont be have much chances to mix with one another unless we take the initiative ourselves. I personally am not so agree with the system of MRSM ,teknik(nearly100% bumiputera) or matriks. These schools have totally separated Bumiputera from other races. Many was surprised when they saw me speaking fluently in Malays , and most of my Malay friends from MRSM will said I am their first Chinese friends etc........and of course I was surprised too when I found that many Chinese cant speak in BM too. Although we may seem to live peacefully together, still the level of understanding between races will be like a time bomb which could explode anytime. Small conflicts among races are already happening among students ---- groups so called gang which usually formed by the same races will tend to fight with the gang formed by other races. This has been happening around us but no action has been taken.
Most of the posts before stating that we need improve our country to be better in economy, but I think improving the understanding among each races should come first. If we really love our country , then we must first understand and love ALL the people who are living there. Everything will be gone in a second if anything like Indonesia (though it is not likely to happen for the time being) happens in Malaysia.


The first of these is the challenges of establishing a united Malaysian nation with a sense of common and shared destiny. This must be a nation at peace with itself, territorially and ethnically integrated, living in harmony and full and fair partnership, made up of one 'Bangsa Malaysia' with political loyalty and dedication to the nation.

There are reasons why it is put as the first challenge.....but it seems that for the time being it is where the least effort is being put in(though there are improvements but still we are far from a united Malaysian nation)

edited some typo mistakes.

[littlebigone]

i doubt a truly united malaysian nation is ever going to exist. The best I think that we can hope for is a practical cohesive Malaysian nation. Right now, I think the general feeling is that if you don't kacau me, then I won't kacau you. People are blissfully ignoring racial differences in order to promote a healthy economy. The example Schye gave of Indonesia is a good example of what happens when the economic support for this balance is taken away. It's scary to think that it could (or has happened) in Malaysia.

I say that a united Malaysian nation will never happen because some people are just too proud of race. Right now, most of us still identify ourselves as a Malay, Chinese, Indian, or any of the other races. If we say we're malaysian, I believe many chinese will say, "I'm a Malaysian Chinese" or something like that. Some may say, what's wrong with that, it's our culture we must be proud of it. But I say that we should say we're Malaysians. We may have roots in other places but we must understand that we are different. Our culture is more Malaysian than Chinese, Indian, or anything else. We have to embrace this with pride. However, somehow most just can't embrace the so called bangsa Malaysia concept.

I also agree with Schye about MRSM, teknik, asrama schools. But I would like to add that I also do not agree with Chinese schools, Indian Schools, any vernacular school. I think schools like this due to their environment will promote a bunker mentality amongst the different groups. It should be Sekolah Kebangsaan. National school.

We're so proud of the fact that Malaysia is a multiracial country, where the people live in peace and harmony. Smiles everywhere. Ignorance as they say is bliss.

I remeber my standard 2 moral teacher telling me this. "We chinese have to work harder as the govt is going to help us. They're too busy helping the bumiputras". Do you think this teacher's mentality is an isolated case or is it really a widespread belief secretly held by many Malaysians?

I hope that Malaysia will prove me wrong and finally end up as a united Malaysian nation. Right now, I think too many things are racially polarized, politics, education, businesses, and most importantly, thinking.

[Thirdshifter]

littlebonegone,

I couldn't had said it better. Great post

I must add-As long as we don't change some of the unfair Laws in the constitution about Special rights for bumiputera the ability for us to progress as one country without any racial indifferences would not be a reality..

I truly hope one day we all will get over racial supremacy, It's superbly unhealthy for Malaysia.

Sometimes i hate being a bumiputera, and see how unfair the goverment is to my "minority" Buddies.

Come to think about it. Bumiputera only represent 59% of the population.

[chenchow]

good post by many of you!!!

Schye, you have brought up a very good issue.... To those that do not realize, the first challenge meant by Schye is the first challenge of our 9 challenges in Vision 2020.

On various streams of schools, I would say that it is up to interpretation, but what do you guys think about the Integration plan initiated by Badawi in early 1980s.. Badawi's plan is to have Malaysians from different schools to have co-curricular activities together. While, they may be studying in different schools, there should be a lot of activities held together.... What do you guys think?

Speaking about vernacular school and all the fiasco about Vision School, I think it is about the dissemination of information. As the idiom says, one time touch, hundred times shy,...something in that line. The reason the Dong Jiao Zong and Hua Zhong are against Vision School is not about don't want to study in the same school. What they care is the teaching of Mandarin. What really care by these fundamentalist of Chinese is whether the younger generation of Malaysian Chinese know, understand and can speak in Mandarin fluently. That is their first and only mission. Those Dong Jiao Zong people still remember how 60 Chinese schools when they became SMJK, lost its identity and they don't want history to repeat itself.... The percentage of chinese who take Mandarin up to SPM have declined to rock bottom. It is not hard to notice that at least 30% of Malaysian Chinese younger generation cannot speak or understand Mandarin.... Hence, they are weary about the Vision School....

The sentence spoken by littlebigone's moral teacher is an isolated case. I have studied 6 years in SRJK(C) and 6 years in SMJK, I would argue that I am not less patriotic than most of the other Malaysians. And I would say that most of my schoolmates are like me, very patriotic and it is the norm in various Chinese schools in Malaysia.

[one-zero]

I think littlebigone's "I don't kacau you, you don't kacau me" sums up the situation very accurately! And about the mentality of your standard 2 teacher's, as far as I know, almost everyone around me thinks like that, or somewhat like that. The only difference is that they wouldn't say it in public, especially not in front of a standard 2 class. I personally think that it is rather irresponsible and unfair for a teacher to make a statement like that to a bunch of schoolkids. but if you ask me, the mentality is definitely not an isolated case. (interesting isn't it, chenchow, how different the people around us are? birds of a feather flock together?)

I always think that people tend to unite when they are facing a common enemy. It's easier to share your trouble than it is to share your wealth! Perhaps our generation has not been faced with adversities of life that call for the unity of all the people regardless of race?

I still think that developing our economy is key to holding the country together. If the economic pie is growing, then at least all parties have the chance of gaining (in absolute terms). Otherwise, if the size of the pie remains the same, one party's gain will be translated into another party's loss. It's almost impossible to improve a particular group's welfare without hurting another group.

It seems like it's human nature to categorize things into 'you' vs 'me', 'us' vs 'them', no? Even in countries where there is only one majority race (or at least where racial difference is not an issue), they have private schools vs public schools... just an observation. perhaps we prefer to deal with rich vs poor issues rather than malays vs chinese vs indians issues?

As long as racial issues are deemed too sensitive to be discussed in public, I think it's very difficult for us to make progress. If we don't even understand the issues at hand (I personally don't, and am willing to listen), how can we tackle it properly?

[chenchow]

I think at the very least our Recom members consist of various races and we are able to discuss any issue openly, with everyone sharing their honest opinion...it is a good sign! Together, we work towards a better tomorrow..

bringing in another issue to discuss, Pak Lah is going all out in eradicating corruption and reducing red tape...what do you guys think of it? I think it is a very good effort..

[noneedname]

..........

[kucingbiru]

wow, u really want people to read huh. yeah, the more u expose, the more attention you get. it worked at jalan changkat bukit bintang.

[PaTiEnT]

Hmm.. over here in Sarawak it's a bit different in terms of race. That's because the dominant race is Chinese, especially in where I'm from.

What I realized is, a friend of mine who went to KL to study, came back with a whole bunch of "fresh" ideas which truly shocked the rest of us. She was studying journalism at a private chinese institute, and wow.. hmm.. the idea of freedom of speech, the freedom of press.. that's what ticks people off. What happened was, she brought all these new ideas back to the small town and we finally "learned" something about the government which we would never have because we're on "the other side". and another point is, what we were exposed to was negative and biased.

Opinion : we can't tackle race issues if nobody can really talk about how they feel.. and when they do, it's always within race.. we've become too close-minded to accept any criticisms or good reasoning from another race.

when i read mahathir's "The Malay Dilemma", it did give me an insight of how a Malay thinks.. but of course, that's just one Malay.. doesn't necessarily speak for everyone (his statement). Therefore, speak up! ;) i want to know more.......

Also, i have feeling that even if we read about each other's thoughts and feelings and opinions and what not, it's easy to dismiss them because we've had that "cheh, of course he say like that lah, he's "different" mar..." mentality.. it's just the way it is.. kinda depressing huh..

[Zeroth]

Hi all, I'm new here and I must say that stumbling upon this website is very timely indeed.

What is patriotism really? Why should we love our country? Simply because we were born and bred there? Because our loved ones are there? Or what? Similarly, why do we love our family? Why do we care for each other, unconditionally? These may sound absurd to ask but I haven't found the answers that I'm looking for. Is it because we are genetically programmed to love those who are related to us by blood? Or is it because it is in our best interest to do so?

Digression: I once asked a group of Malaysians & Singaporeans if they were willing to die for their country. The Singaporeans' answers ranged from the definite 'yes' to 'why not?'; the 3 Malaysians there unanimously answered 'no'. How many of you here are willing to die for your country?
(Assuming that the alternative is a good, healthy life, of course)

Cheers cheers

I might be posting a very low quality post but anyway, why die for you country? To live is to fight. Make the enemy die for his.

I believe a true acheivement is not about the tallest buildings, biggest this biggest that. We are wasting too much funds on unnecessary projects. Scattered all around the countries are tons of abandoned projects where contractors ran away, and stuff. Why build klcc when we can use that money to upgrade our whole water system? Why build a massive grand putrajaya when we can build a smaller but still functional government infrastructure? Also, all the visions are just talks, like the biotech valley which is not abandoned.

Check the Malaysia book of records, and we'll see many things done in the name of Malaysia boleh, like cooking most satay, etc.. What's the real boleh in that? Malaysia boleh is gramatically wrong by the way. Ayat tergantung.

Our primary and secondary education system is ok, but after secondary school, things start to get messy. Those who fared really well would generally get scholarships, etc. Those who are average would not have much chance to persue what they want at all, some deciding to work instead. Basically in this country, if you're rich and stupid, u'll survive. If you're poor but smart, you'll survive. Be stupid and poor, you're going to have a tough time.

I guess i'm not making sense.. haha!

[iQing]

anyone read XX's post on KL?
it seems we have bad image.
(or XX is just plain stupid)

[masdie]

I stumbled across this entry on a blog.

*sigh* The government should be focusing on other things, but they don?t. They should send our government doctors for training abroad and alleviate the bloody IPTA admission quota, so more qualified students can pursue medical studies at cost. And when is our Malaysian Ringgit going to increase in value so that surgeries in US won?t cost a bomb for us?

Read more at http://www.yvonnefoong.com/archives/2005/09/d-day-no-free-surgery-for-me/

Help if you can.

Thank you.

[masdie]

Dr M: Take in foreign scientists to boost R&D

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/9/9/nation/11992685&sec=nation

Why do we need to bring in foreign scientists when we boast of having so many talented m'sians abroad? Are we not succesful in dragging them back to m'sia? If so, why? Are they scared or are they ashamed? I don't blame them. Those who know the situation in m'sia won't want to come here to suffer, unless of course you're not m'sian.

[Zeroth]

Oh no.. he lost confidence in us all already..

[weich]

Dr M: Take in foreign scientists to boost R&D

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/9/9/nation/11992685&sec=nation

Why do we need to bring in foreign scientists when we boast of having so many talented m'sians abroad? Are we not succesful in dragging them back to m'sia? If so, why? Are they scared or are they ashamed? I don't blame them. Those who know the situation in m'sia won't want to come here to suffer, unless of course you're not m'sian.

maybe he's referring to those from India/Singapore...cheap & good, but most likely if we get, we'll get those 3rd-hand ones =P

[Thirdshifter]

Mahathir... Mahathir....

2 years ago you were singing a different tune. What happened?

[Salvation]

he is making lots of noise lately, not all for bad i must say.
Guess old habbits die hard.

[masdie]

May the Mega Sale Save Malaysia!

http://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2005/9/10/lifefocus/11957002&sec=lifefocus

This is so true about our m'sian culture.

[Zeroth]

you know, it might actually work..

[vseehua]

i've just read it in the star also this afternoon...

it's a really funny way of describing the malaysian way of thinking...and yes, i think i'll work out just great :P

[masdie]

Mahathir... Mahathir....

2 years ago you were singing a different tune. What happened?

There are 2 possibilities:
a) he has gone senile
b) he no longer shoulders the responsibilities of leading (and protecting) m'sia so he can now voice out his opinions true from his heart.

[vseehua]

i'll take option B .....

[youngyew]

Stumble upon a few old posts in this thread, just scanned through them and again, another question arises in me.

Is patriotism an inherent quality that everyone must possess? For example, one might argue that being filial to our parents is an inherent responsibility as their children, but this is not always the case. In my opinion, if the father is a callous person, who abuses or hits us for no reason, then he doesn't deserve love from the children in return.

What about country then? Don't confuse a country with a government as what politicians always try to do; but after discounting the political parties and the government, is there an inherent responsibility of us to be patriotic? As in, let's say everything is good, government and policies and economic is all nice - would it make you a bad person if you are not patriotic?

[masdie]

I love m'sia. No doubt about that. I love living in m'sia. But I just don't like the way m'sia is being handled by those fat politicians. I'm not willing to sacrifice for m'sia because I don't think m'sia (as in the government) will appreciate me.

Just like a bad father, if all he did was just to give his sperm, then he doesn't deserve his children's love and care.

So no. Not being patriotic doesn't mean I'm bad.

[iQing]

I think Kenny Sia has written a good entry on Patriotism.
I agree with what he has said.

www.kennysia.com

[masdie]

Malaysia?s world ranking drops to 28th

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/9/13/nation/12027832&sec=nation

Malaysia, please repeat after me: Goodbye Vision 2020!!

[gonjeng]

Malaysia?s world ranking drops to 28th

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/9/13/nation/12027832&sec=nation

Malaysia, please repeat after me: Goodbye Vision 2020!!

come on... that shouldnt be the attitude, should it? acknowledging that there is a problem, we should urge ourself and others to buckle up and get ready to work harder, or what not... rather than simply having the attitude of 'bye2 malaysia, you are screwed', right? we definitely aint gonna achieve vision 2020 if the younger generation act this way... :)

[topdog]

I love m'sia. No doubt about that. I love living in m'sia. But I just don't like the way m'sia is being handled by those fat politicians. I'm not willing to sacrifice for m'sia because I don't think m'sia (as in the government) will appreciate me.

Just like a bad father, if all he did was just to give his sperm, then he doesn't deserve his children's love and care.
one can't choose one's father, but one can choose one's leaders. in many ways, political leaders are a reflection of their society, i.e. we reap what we sow.

[vseehua]

sad to say we have less rotten and more rotten from the list of ppl to choose as leaders ...