Medicine Application Statistics [Archive]

Ai_Shiomi

19-05-2005, 10:59 PM

I mean with all the commotion going on with appyling medicine, does anyone really now what percentage of the college actually gets an offer from UCAS without going through clearing?
To be it in numbers each uni will only have 10-25 seats for INTERNATIONAL students, JPA, Petronas and MARA offers >200, how many really got offers?
Is there really a verbal understanding between MARA and RCSI?
Does it mean the the rest gets sent to Ireland/ local?
I got wind that there were severe unrest among the scholars as though they meet the academic requirement, they were turned down by the uni?
But nevertheless if you don't mind, how many of your classmates have offers shuly? (And where? ) :P

20-05-2005, 04:05 AM

When I was a lad, there were 30-odd of us in my year who applied to UK med schools. All but one got offers, although of those who got offers a few didn't meet them.
Don't worry about competition, the key is to make sure you are better than the others - you'll find that med school entry isn't the only hurdle you're going to face.
There are a lot of Malaysians in every UK med school, in some places they make up about half the yearly quota. Plus International really means 'not-UK/EU'.
I don't know whether some people did make a fuss, but I think the admissions procedures are quite fair - not perfect, but I think much better than in some other places. Like I said, the most important thing is to make sure you stand out - there are thousands of people with good results, and only so many places, so no one can cry foul on the basis of academic criteria really.

Ai_Shiomi

20-05-2005, 01:46 PM

yeeyen

20-05-2005, 02:03 PM

Mind my rudeness, but when you said When I was a lad how long ago was it? In the previous 10 years, getting straight A's in SPM was all it needs, for medical interviews projected/predicted grades need only be BBC (for A-levels), number on applicants for medicine was so much fewer wasn't it? Therefore competition was less. Nowadays many UK medical schools have combined (e.g IC thus even less available seats).

Haha, you mean 'DON'T mind my rudeness", right? I hope so at least. Anyway, I was just wondering, is there really a formula for getting an interview? I know for the schools that want the BMAT, there is, you need a certain score and above before they ask you for the interview. You can check the unis that need it online. I think more want it this year, so don't rely on last year's info for this.

About the scholars who met the academic requirements but were turned down, doesn't that just mean that they didn't meet the non-academic requirements? Or is there more to it than that?

But really, i should like to know how you found out all the pre-requisites for interviews. Cause no one in my college knew what they were, other than those who applied for the BMAT unis.
Oh, and Imperial combined? With?

Tab

20-05-2005, 02:15 PM

Oh, and Imperial combined? With?

I think what Ai_Shiomi meant was that Imperial Coll School of Medicine was born out of the merger of a few smaller medical schools, namely the St Mary's Hospital, Charing Cross & Westminster Medical Schools, with the existing Imperial College.

Ai_Shiomi

20-05-2005, 02:17 PM

yeeyen

20-05-2005, 02:32 PM

Yeah that's what i meant sorry. I think it was something like this, there were 4 major medical schools in london (Charing Cross etc) which combined to form a medical institute call UCH. UCH then split up into UCL and IC (that's what my friend who got an offer from IC told me - not sure if it's true though)
You need BMAT for UCL and Oxbridge medicine.

UCH became UCL and IC? Not too sure about that either. Haha, UCL was at first University of London. Then King's came along, so they came up with UCL and KC, with Uni of LOndon awarding medical degrees to both schools. Haha, not sure where imperial comes in, though...

And about the BMAT? I just looked it up. Imperial needs it this year too. Unlike last year... SO, anyone interested, you can go to www.bmat.org.uk

But again, about the requirements for interview?

20-05-2005, 02:41 PM

Yeeyen has corrected that which I was going to correct - thank you :)
Not true about UCH splitting into UCL and IC. UCH (University College Hospital) is affiliated with UCL (University College London - founded 1826). The IC hospitals are, among others, St Mary's, the Royal Brompton (National Heart and Lung Institute), Charing Cross, the Hammersmith and the Westminster. UCL is affiliated with most of the other specialist hospitals e.g. the HTD, the National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery and of course the two principal teaching hospitals, the Royal Free and UCH (nice brand spanking new building on Euston Road).
Criteria for getting interviews: generally speaking, stage 1 is the academic bits, if your predicted or achieved grades meet the requirements then you go on to the next stage, usually the personal statement (or other hurdles, depending on the school). There is usually a scoring form. A few schools have made their selection policies available on the web.
As for the more pressing question on my age - let's just say I'm old enough to know, young enough to understand :)
You might find it interesting to know that the number of applicants to medical school has generally declined. I think the entry criteria now are much more stringent, academics and the old school tie don't count for as much - which is a GOOD thing. I don't agree with the Malaysian system, for example, where getting good grades is the only criteria for admission.
Again, don't worry about the competition, focus on making yourself competitive. Best of luck.

Ai_Shiomi

20-05-2005, 02:50 PM

Oh, don't worry about me i'm all clear. Put it in words, i've got a friend who's predicted 6A's for A-levels. He got interviewed by 3/4 uni's and got a rejection letter within 3 days of the interview. There's tonnes of students who are on JPA scholarship for UK - medicine but are unable to do so as they didn't pass the interviews. About the uni connections? But i know for a fact that RCSI prefers MARA scholars and Taylor's have connections with UWA.

20-05-2005, 04:24 PM

Requirements for interview?
Meeting academic requirements, good personal statement and referee reference, i guess. Oh a little bit of luck as well.

SHuLy

21-05-2005, 07:34 PM

hi..sorry for late reply. having A2 now.
my class: slightly more than half got it. everyone in my class are JPA scholars either doing medicine or pharmacy (about 5 ppl for the latter).

a few did not get it, and only 1 got all 4 offers. there were few also who got 3 offers. most got 1 or 2 offers.

JPA does not send any students to RCSI anymore if i am not mistaken.

i got 3 offers - birmingham, edin and cardiff
i have friends in KMYS and Sunway, and i think quite a number of them got at least ONE offer...

21-05-2005, 08:25 PM

Perhaps your friend doesn't interview well? Or perhaps (s)he's a boring person in the eyes of the interviewers? It's hard to say without much information. 6 A-levels does seem a bit much though, maybe (s)he came across as a really nerdy type - med schools here like interesting people who have interests outside work (apparently they act as a shield against burnout). Your friend might like to ask for feedback from the med schools he was rejected from.
For first-year entry, the usual practice is to screen out all the poor academic performers, and the remainder are then on an equal footing i.e. academics don't count any more. If I'm not mistaken anyway. I guess there might be exceptions to the rule though.
By the way, if you want to work here, or in any other developed country (even Singapore!), making yourself competitive doesn't stop on med school admission - you can't rest on your laurels, until perhaps you're at the pinnacle of your career.

Ai_Shiomi

22-05-2005, 02:16 AM

Regarding my friend who got the 6A's predicted grades, i was just making a point that academic criteria isn't all that is being sought after by the uni. Back in M'sia tis easier to get into local institues isn't it? Shuly, you're doing A-levels and you're not at KYUEM / Sunway, so where are you doing it? KBU, Taylor's or KDU. I'm not sure if JPA sends them to RCSI but with the number of applicants increasing do they have a choice? How about the people who are JPA scholars that made the grades but got turned down by the uni? Like you said, everyone in you class are JPA scholars but only slightly more then half got it. What are the rest going to do? Twinning with IMU?
Shuly, i've got another question if you don't mind, you've got 4 offers, what's the other uni you've got the offer from (by golly you must be really good if you've got 4 offers) :D
How many people got offers for London uni's (they're darn hard to get in!!) :x :x
Regarding the working enviroments, aren't doctors always in demand. I think since the generation from which the first wave of "modern doctors" from India and Pakistan are reaching retirement age, my guess is the demand for doctors in UK and other modern countries can only rise. When i reflect at the people who're doctors currently, would it come to mind that back then they didn't really get the grades but still made exceptional doctors? :wink:

22-05-2005, 02:51 AM

On whether it's easier to gain admission to Malaysian unis, I'd say it depends really - to a large degree on the colour of your skin :)
My personal opinion is that with the current policy of sponsoring people right after SPM, the mismatch between number of students and offers will continue - especially if not all the best candidates are selected, as is the case now. Ideally they should sponsor people after pre-university studies. But what do we know, we're only the rakyat.
You ask if doctors will always be in demand - again, it depends. You need to consider geographical location and specialty among others. It's not wise to deal in absolutes - when you enter medical school, a good rule to remember in exams is that if a statement has the words 'always' or 'never' in it then 99% of the time it is wrong :)
You are right, however, in saying that the most brilliant brains don't always make the best doctors. This is because medicine is not a science in its entirety, but also an art. (This is also why I shudder at the fact that we have been letting in people into our medical schools based on academic results (and race) alone.)

Ai_Shiomi

22-05-2005, 03:26 AM

Ah again the racism comes into play, well i think thats another problem that we all have to see through, be it chinese, indian or malay it shouldn't matter should it? We can't all blame everything on racism. It's like saying "I can't get into a uni in UK for medicine because i'm not a home student,". Then the only solution for the malaysian community would be abolishing racial differences e.g. mix marriages :?: :?: but to be honest how many chinese would marry malays and vice versa. Not only does religious differences comes between them but family tradition as well. (sensitive issue let's not go there) :D
More about the geographical location and doctors, if you're a doctor, be in in Siberia, Manhattan or even in the jungles of Sarawak i think you would still find yourself a precious asset to the community, wouldn't you agree?

(Not to stray away from the topic) I agree with your idea that mismatch between students and courses will continue to occur should the current system be continued. Should applications of medical degrees around the world be the same as it is in the States? I think there medical degree's are only done as post-grads so it will filter those who are not serious in pursuing medicine.

yeeyen

22-05-2005, 11:41 PM

erm, this isn't really essential to the discussion, but i can't resist.
We can't blame everything on racism and the only solution is mixed marriages? Hah? OK, perhaps the former is true to a small extent. We should also blame the poor academic system that doesn't encourage much thinking, but the pursuit of a string of As. Sorry, no offense to all those thinkers who emerged successfully from the system.

But really, my point is, why can't we blame racism? And the solution should be abolishing racism, and not abolishing distinct races.

Haha, but i think you're right about the doctors being in high demand in remote areas. Only, I'm not sure that I should like to work in Siberia or the outskirts of Sarawak. You can call me selfish, but I don't think I could take it for more than a month. :oops:

Ai_Shiomi

23-05-2005, 01:39 AM

Well some people have this idea that only Asians / Yellow people can do maths, how far do you agree with this idea?
Should we be like Indonesia when the chinese aren't allowed to keep their family names? Sure it creates nationalism but is it fair to do so?
Some of us demand racial equality but we're the same people who fight for racial identity. And when we fight for racial identities it becomes like the first world countries where the brown mix with the brown, yellow with yellow and white with white.
The academic system in my opinion a result of selection pressure? I mean in a developing country, they aren't many occupations where you get the respect of the community. Peer pressure and the scholarships available don't really give us much choice do they? One of my interviewer gave me a this statement,' I have a lot of respect for the scholars from M'sia, they come from a poor background yet, they are doing medicine at our institute with exceptionally high standards.' I had in mind to mention that is might be possible for some scholars to be applying for medicine because thats the only option available to them? For instance the only course that they were thought to be the highest paying? And by the time they realized that their interst lies elsewhere it's already too late!!
By the way yeeyen you've got your offers rite? How many people from your college have gotten offers? And from where?

yeeyen

23-05-2005, 02:37 PM

erm, sorry, but i'm completely lost. What exactly are you getting at?
haha, this is making me wonder how i ever passed any interviews in my life with this poor comprehension skills<grinz>...
So, please, can you explain your point again to me? I think i said, we should stop racism, not racial difference. Then you said, well... i'm not sure whether you agreed or you disagreed. You seemed to agree, but tonewise... Haha, i think Lit destroyed my mind. I read too much into everything.

The academic system in my opinion a result of selection pressure?
erm, again, i'm not too sure what you mean. sorry. Gosh, i'm feeling really stupid rite now, and it's not like i went drinking yesterday either. at least i dun remember doing that... oh no... haha.

About people thinking medicine is the only option, well, i think that's demeaning to all those non-doctors. Who do make up a lot more of the population. Perhaps scholars should know better.And besides, in Fortune 500, i don't think there are many doctors if any.

And I went to college in Singapore, so i don't think it'd really be of much interest to you. <grinz> Actually, i say that hoping for forgiveness for my ignorance. I really don't know the answer. Never wondered, really, so never found out.

23-05-2005, 02:59 PM

Ah again the racism comes into play, well i think thats another problem that we all have to see through, be it chinese, indian or malay it shouldn't matter should it? We can't all blame everything on racism. It's like saying "I can't get into a uni in UK for medicine because i'm not a home student,". Then the only solution for the malaysian community would be abolishing racial differences e.g. mix marriages but to be honest how many chinese would marry malays and vice versa. Not only does religious differences comes between them but family tradition as well. (sensitive issue let's not go there)

I do not see the relevance of this point at all to the matter at hand. I merely pointed out that the current system in Malaysia which encourages academic mediocrity has the race factor partly to blame. But that was all. I did not extend it to encompass mixed marriages, and it sure as hell isn't the same as not getting into a British uni for want of home student status. The way I see it, your point doesn't add anything to the discussion at hand, and is poorly expressed as well.
As for serving in Siberia, my point was that the geographical mismatch between supply and demand creates an artificial situation where supply as perceived as being greater than demand due to the fact that very few, or none consider the remote areas but rather the cities where doctors tend to be plentiful.
I don't think I will bother with the other irrelevant points like 'selection pressure' and nationalism.

SHuLy

24-05-2005, 03:06 PM

Shuly, you're doing A-levels and you're not at KYUEM / Sunway, so where are you doing it? KBU, Taylor's or KDU. I'm not sure if JPA sends them to RCSI but with the number of applicants increasing do they have a choice? How about the people who are JPA scholars that made the grades but got turned down by the uni? Like you said, everyone in you class are JPA scholars but only slightly more then half got it. What are the rest going to do? Twinning with IMU?
Shuly, i've got another question if you don't mind, you've got 4 offers, what's the other uni you've got the offer from (by golly you must be really good if you've got 4 offers) :D
How many people got offers for London uni's (they're darn hard to get in!!) :x :x
Regarding the working enviroments, aren't doctors always in demand. I think since the generation from which the first wave of "modern doctors" from India and Pakistan are reaching retirement age, my guess is the demand for doctors in UK and other modern countries can only rise. When i reflect at the people who're doctors currently, would it come to mind that back then they didn't really get the grades but still made exceptional doctors? :wink:

i am currently at taylor's college, and i got 3 offers as stated in my previous reply...not 4. hehe. and i think i have also said which uni that offered me.

in my class, not many applied to london. only those who could afford the lifestyle, of which, very few could. i think only 3 applied for london. one got it. one didn't get it. as for the remaining one, she didn't say anything. i think that MOST medical unis are tough to get in (there are a few which seems pretty easy to me), and london unis are in that category.

27-05-2005, 12:13 AM

Really, which are the easy ones, and on what criteria do you judge them to be easy?
EasIER might be a better choice of word.
JPA's giving all their scholars who are in Oxbridge and London an increase in their allowance, so hopefully that will help the living costs a little.

SHuLy

27-05-2005, 06:35 AM

sorry...EASIER then. :D

oxbridge?! pah...do you know that many of them have bursaries? and mind you, they amount to more than what JPA is giving per annum, if not almost.

27-05-2005, 02:32 PM

I do. However, not all of them did the dishonourable I'm glad to say.

SHuLy

27-05-2005, 04:07 PM

I do. However, not all of them did the dishonourable I'm glad to say.

lemme guess, you're in one of the oxbridge unis...

27-05-2005, 11:34 PM

Maybe, maybe not. One doesn't have to be an insider to know things. In any case, its a point that's irrelevant to the discussion :)

Tab

28-05-2005, 12:44 AM

Maybe, maybe not. One doesn't have to be an insider to know things. In any case, its a point that's irrelevant to the discussion

hello mr guest... hmm.... do I know you? ;) hehehe....

you're not busy with Tripos exams?

well, I know I am! :P

arrgh.. gotta go study now.... sigh.. can't wait for all this crap to be over and for May Week to come!

Tab

28-05-2005, 12:49 AM

sorry...EASIER then. :D

oxbridge?! pah...do you know that many of them have bursaries? and mind you, they amount to more than what JPA is giving per annum, if not almost.

shuly... Cambridge JPA scholars don't get any bursary . Only self-sponsored students do, and for medicine, that's certainly NOT enough to cover even full tuition fees.... they get only something like a max of GBP 4000 p.a. as a small subsidy.

anyway, hope that clarifies things a bit....

28-05-2005, 05:31 AM

Tab - you may or may not know me :)
You are mistaken about the CCT bursaries though, some JPA scholars are in receipt of them. I suppose morality is relative...

SHuLy

28-05-2005, 08:08 AM

shuly... Cambridge JPA scholars don't get any bursary . Only self-sponsored students do, and for medicine, that's certainly NOT enough to cover even full tuition fees.... they get only something like a max of GBP 4000 p.a. as a small subsidy.

anyway, hope that clarifies things a bit....

are you sure??? haha...there are tab..there are.

Tab

28-05-2005, 10:32 PM

Tab - you may or may not know me :)
You are mistaken about the CCT bursaries though, some JPA scholars are in receipt of them. I suppose morality is relative...

are you sure??? haha...there are tab..there are

*gasp* huh? there are?

Oh my God.. that's cheating! but then again, I wonder how did they get it? applying for the cambridge commonwealth trust bursary requires you to declare how much shortfall between what you can afford to pay and the tuition fees and living expenses. For JPA scholars, there shouldn't be any shortfall at all...... so, I wonder how these scholars go abt in 'creating' a shortfall......... and I wonder whether I know them or not... :? (coz I know all JPA scholars in cambridge...)

hey mr guest.. why so secretive abt your identity lar.... relax a bit leh.... I know all the Malaysian medics in Cambridge... so, that means I DO KNOW YOU...... come on.. own up! :lol:

anyway, got another 9 days to go before my first paper.. and 17 days to go before my 'merdeka'..... :P

29-05-2005, 09:07 AM

masdie

29-05-2005, 04:16 PM

Hmm... where in my previous posts did I give the impression that I'm at Cambridge? Or even that I'm male for that matter?
One doesn't need to be at a place to know the things that go on there, remember...

As for the other, more important matter, well, there are ways of getting around almost anything if you know where to look and how hard to look for it...

haha, i see someone trying to run away from answering something. hiding anything mister? reveal-lah yourself. don't be scared. there're only a handful of us here. come on, we won't tell your little secret to others. :wink:

SHuLy

31-05-2005, 11:07 AM

*gasp* huh? there are?

Oh my God.. that's cheating! but then again, I wonder how did they get it? applying for the cambridge commonwealth trust bursary requires you to declare how much shortfall between what you can afford to pay and the tuition fees and living expenses. For JPA scholars, there shouldn't be any shortfall at all...... so, I wonder how these scholars go abt in 'creating' a shortfall......... and I wonder whether I know them or not... :? (coz I know all JPA scholars in cambridge...)

hey mr guest.. why so secretive abt your identity lar.... relax a bit leh.... I know all the Malaysian medics in Cambridge... so, that means I DO KNOW YOU...... come on.. own up! :lol:

anyway, got another 9 days to go before my first paper.. and 17 days to go before my 'merdeka'..... :P

of course there are. ALL the JPA scholars who got their conditional offers for cambridge that i know of applied....and a BIG SUM too for that matter, like i said, it's equal, if not MORE than what JPA is giving per annum....very unscrupulous, but then again...humans are greedy. oh, and those that i know, well, they are not taking up medicine. thank gawd! me partially defending the society of ppl taking up medicine too! (but i'm not denying that there might be those who got medic and applying for the shortfall...i'm just glad i don't know them!)...no reward for guessing who are the ones (as in what course they are doing) who applied for the shortfall either! even a telecom scholar is doing alike.