Is there a LIMIT to Malay rights?

[iQing]

Yo, another sensitive issue.
This thread is not about whether Malay Right should be remove or not... ok ok...

I would really like to know whether if there is a LIMIT to Malay Rights...

Hmmm.. noneedname may be a spammer but he does bring up the issue of LIMIT to Malay rights.

at first all races agree that Malay can keep thier rights, but what is the limit?

is the Malay rights ever increasing, until the other races are loosing thier status and opportunities?

I think Malay rights is fine to our country but there should be a limit fixed for this right otherwise the government will keep on increasing various rights without limits , until the other races suffer from such policy.

[cra]

yeah, and they still say you cant question on this issue,

[gohweihan]

The problem is this - there is a constitutional article stating that there could be special rights for bumiputeras (and in which fields), but there is no article stating the limit within those fields (that is, how much benefits can be given to them).

So logically, the government would manipulate it to a level which doesn't cause people to riot, and where they gain the maximum out of it.

[misled_youth]

This thread is unconstitutional and against the spirit of muhibbah.

I plead mods to lock this thread.

[Thirdshifter]

This thread is unconstitutional and against the spirit of muhibbah.

I plead mods to lock this thread.

It has been more then once i read this. I don't see it more then a way to mock the mods who are trying their best to keep things in line here. If you feel the moderation of this site not suiting you.. well there's hundreds if not thousand other boards without any moderation.

[iQing]

Helping the Malays by raising the standard of Malays is OK

but helping the malays by lowering the standard of non-Malays so that the gap is smaller is another story.

That is why many Malay do not understand why some non Malays are so fussy with the issue of Malay rights.

[misled_youth]

This thread is unconstitutional and against the spirit of muhibbah.

I plead mods to lock this thread.

It has been more then once i read this. I don't see it more then a way to mock the mods who are trying their best to keep things in line here. If you feel the moderation of this site not suiting you.. well there's hundreds if not thousand other boards without any moderation.

I'm merely reminding everyone of THE LAW.

[iQing]

I do not know that asking whether there is a LIMIT to malay rights is against the law.

[Maestro]

Of course this matter is so sensitive to talk about. The Malays consist of more than 60% of the country's population. If we try to put this matter as business, of course, the most share holders dominates the business, right? Generally, Malaysia practices democracy under Constitutional Monarchy system.
Sadly, conservative Malaysians think that Malaysia is not one country. It's just like a country which is formed by many tribes, ethnics, races and religions. Orthodox Malaysians, that's the word, describe Malaysia as a country consists of Malays, Chinese, Indians and Others. Concerning on this, if someone categorised in Others Tribe, how do they feel anyway? Something like being alienated, right? The integrity level here is not up to the right level. Most of us still have the mind that we must stick to the traditions, customs and belief. We hardly ever thought of overhauling this primitive-mentality.
If we look at Perlembagaan Malaysia, there's a statement that Malays and Bumiputras will have their special rights until there's a time which is unnecessary to have the rights anymore. In other words, it will happened when these ethnics are strong enough to compete in an opened-business world. It is just something like Firewall in the internet... Unlike our Orthodox-Mentality which is Malays always have the right, and other races wondering why they have it.

Therefore, our jobs is simple; not to blame the king, not to blame the politicians, not to blame Malays, Chinese or Indians or Constitution. The blame is on us, we need to tear down this sicko mentality. If we don't try to tear it now, who will? And let's start it right now coz we have no moment to lose.

Epilogue: I know most people will not agree with this idea, but when people asked me what's my race, I'll answer I'm a Malaysian, not as a Chinese or a Malay or Indian. If we are true Malaysian, why hesistate? As a Malaysian, we have the rights to choose ourfaith and speak our ideas out.

"No matter how fair or how dark is your skin, your blood is still bloody red!"

[iQing]

Of course it is good if we have positive mentality but the Malay rights stuffs have affected a lot of people negatively, such as in business sector.

For example, if you are a housing developer, and due to Malay rights, you have to reserve certain percentage of houses for Malay residents. If there is not enough Malay buyers, you cannot sell those houses. Of course you loose money right?

and if you own a big company and you HAVE TO employ Malay workers. If you do not need Malay workers but you are made to employ them, it is like "rugi" for your company right?

It is not just about Mentality or being fussy, but it gives negative impact to many people.

I would only like to know, is there a LIMIT to this right?

if not, this type of right might be abused.

[masdie]

Epilogue: I know most people will not agree with this idea, but when people asked me what's my race, I'll answer I'm a Malaysian, not as a Chinese or a Malay or Indian.

you can think of yourself as a malaysian, but do other malaysians think that you're simply a malaysian? i know of many malaysians who still refer to malaysians by their race.

[Randomphantom]

Honestly, if I had the choice, I don't want to know about Malay rights. I would rather picture Malaysia as that idealistic picture of the cliched "three races holding hands in unity" we draw in our Merdeka day posters. And close my ears and chant "Malaysia Boleh...lalala" oblivious to the heated arguments about this contentious issue. However the mods are doing a good job controlling this already civil discussion. I'm glad that at least, *some* people can put aside their emotions and start discussing such a sensitive stuff in a civil way. A lot to say for a topic in "senseless debates".

...Its a start.

[Maestro]

That's why we have no moment to lose. We need to change our old mentality. I know it's seems impossible. But hey, nothing is impossible and impossible is nothing. if we are strong enough to do this, weak people will follow and more will follow. In the end, the vision of one Malaysia will be true.

[lyt87]

Malays' right made them weaker....
That's what i think.
And the country cannot develop well because of that...
after so many years , we r still like that...

After all, it will be better if " Malaysians' Right For ALL Malaysians"

[iQing]

I do not think there are "weak" or "strong" people.
those are just labels.
There are only people with different opinion and mentality.

some people choose not to know about the real world and live in utopia, perfect world and some people choose to be aware on various issue.

It depends on personal choice and free will.

[Maestro]

Of course it is good if we have positive mentality but the Malay rights stuffs have affected a lot of people negatively, such as in business sector.

For example, if you are a housing developer, and due to Malay rights, you have to reserve certain percentage of houses for Malay residents. If there is not enough Malay buyers, you cannot sell those houses. Of course you loose money right?

and if you own a big company and you HAVE TO employ Malay workers. If you do not need Malay workers but you are made to employ them, it is like "rugi" for your company right?

It is not just about Mentality or being fussy, but it gives negative impact to many people.

I would only like to know, is there a LIMIT to this right?

if not, this type of right might be abused.

There's no fixed LIMIT for the bumiputera's right in our country as written in constitution. However, I just want to tell you that non-malay companies which are following this so-called-irrelevant rules not going any poorer, in fact they are gaining more and more profit each year. So what's the big deal? That's so obvious and the obvious is the thing that we need to glorify!

[lyt87]

i mean, Malays are too rely on government... Thus, they might get lots of problem if with the "keistimewaan".

[Salvation]

Malays' right made them weaker....
This statement is a big debate itself...

[andreleeqs]

Malays' right made them weaker....
That's what i think.
And the country cannot develop well because of that...
after so many years , we r still like that...

After all, it will be better if " Malaysians' Right For ALL Malaysians"

I agree with lyt87 even china will overtake Malaysia in future.
Why?? because we are not Unite together..

I'm not the 1 who don't like much bout our own country but we are part of the citizen here.. Under a name Malaysian so if there is some1 who hav keistimewaan wat is the meaning of Malaysian. Malaysian should have the same in all part. Equal opportunity.

Just like Sama Bangsa Sama Bahasa But there is no sama taraf...

I'm not agree their Right taken away but should hav limit.

[gohweihan]

However, I just want to tell you that non-malay companies which are following this so-called-irrelevant rules not going any poorer, in fact they are gaining more and more profit each year. So what's the big deal? That's so obvious and the obvious is the thing that we need to glorify!

I believe that you're purposely trying to deny the existence of something called maximum productivity.

[iQing]

Of course it is good if we have positive mentality but the Malay rights stuffs have affected a lot of people negatively, such as in business sector.

For example, if you are a housing developer, and due to Malay rights, you have to reserve certain percentage of houses for Malay residents. If there is not enough Malay buyers, you cannot sell those houses. Of course you loose money right?

and if you own a big company and you HAVE TO employ Malay workers. If you do not need Malay workers but you are made to employ them, it is like "rugi" for your company right?

It is not just about Mentality or being fussy, but it gives negative impact to many people.

I would only like to know, is there a LIMIT to this right?

if not, this type of right might be abused.

There's no fixed LIMIT for the bumiputera's right in our country as written in constitution. However, I just want to tell you that non-malay companies which are following this so-called-irrelevant rules not going any poorer, in fact they are gaining more and more profit each year. So what's the big deal? That's so obvious and the obvious is the thing that we need to glorify!


It is easy to quote a group of successful examples and neglet the people who actually suffer from such policy.

We have to listen to people who are not happy with thier situation. and people who are not happy are not a small group of people.

My brother is working in an international company and those mat salleh bosses are complaining on this troublesome policy.

btw, please do not get away from the topic by debating the nature of Malay rights. Let us just focus on the LIMIT of Malay rights and its impact on our people.

[gohweihan]

Therefore, our jobs is simple; not to blame the king, not to blame the politicians, not to blame Malays, Chinese or Indians or Constitution. The blame is on us, we need to tear down this sicko mentality. If we don't try to tear it now, who will? And let's start it right now coz we have no moment to lose.

Epilogue: I know most people will not agree with this idea, but when people asked me what's my race, I'll answer I'm a Malaysian, not as a Chinese or a Malay or Indian. If we are true Malaysian, why hesistate? As a Malaysian, we have the rights to choose ourfaith and speak our ideas out.

"No matter how fair or how dark is your skin, your blood is still bloody red!"

Earlier in that post, you've pointed out about conservative Malaysians, and how this is indeed affecting true unity. That is undeniably a fact, but to say not to put the blame on anyone, that's something we have to analyze a little further.

I wouldn't say we should call it a blame, but rather we should trace the source of this problem so that we know where to start solving it from. And unfortunately, this conservatism can be traced back to the way our government functions. If you'd notice, the government (of which 90% are Barisan MPs), is by majority controlled by a coalition party, which consists of component parties which ultimately at the very end of the line, represent a race, or a group of people - for example UMNO for the Malays, MCA for the Chinese, and MIC for the Indians. The very fact that this situation exist, and the very fact that this is manipulated always by the government (and BN especially during times near the elections), creates the distinction between the races, which happens when each component party vows to fight to uphold their race in the nation.

Therefore, having said that, the root of the problem lies within the emotions stirred by the government themselves to keep the people divided.

Looking at the cause, we can then see the feasibility of getting everyone to change their mentality. While you and I may agree that we should shed this stupid idea of conservatism, we must also take into account the grasp the government have on the people. You can make them feel guilty about being conservative, but the moment the government interferes and reassures them, they'll forget everything about the idea of equality.

Having said that, my conclusion is that we should shed this mentality of conservatism, but to expect everyone to do so with the current government with it's current mentality in place is not very feasible. Therefore, the burden lies in making the government to convince the people to shed, or to make a move for a more liberal government to take office.

[iQing]

Sheding ones cultural and religious identity depends on the free will of individual.

I do not agree if we are made to be conservative or made to shed of our cultural identity by other groups or government.

I am for individual choice.

Sometimes cultural identity can be shed off due to war, such as in Germany. People there are confused with thier identity.

Some people argue that Singaporeans are confuse with thier identity. They dun see themselves as certain race. Some say they are no more proad of thier own culture. That happens due to government policy. I am not for it because we are made so.

I am for individual free will, when comes to identity changes.

btw, that would be entirely different topic.

LIMIT of Malay rights pls :P

[gohweihan]

LIMIT of Malay rights pls :P

I thought it's been stated over and over that there is virtually no limits in the fields that they have the rights.

[iQing]

Yes.

and it brings impact to us.
that can be discussed too.

and it brings awareness to us.

[masdie]

this thread triggers another mind-boggling question: is the a limit to human stupidity? maybe this doesn't quite fit into this thread but i think it has some connection.

[iQing]

this thread triggers another mind-boggling question: is the a limit to human stupidity? maybe this doesn't quite fit into this thread but i think it has some connection.

and you are exactly referring to..... ?
can you give a clearer explaination?

[Randomphantom]

There's no fixed LIMIT for the bumiputera's right in our country as written in constitution. However, I just want to tell you that non-malay companies which are following this so-called-irrelevant rules not going any poorer, in fact they are gaining more and more profit each year. So what's the big deal? That's so obvious and the obvious is the thing that we need to glorify!

Not getting any poorer, yessir. I might be inclined to believe so to, given that people will try their best to flourish in the face of adverse conditions. You can't keep a good man down. You see that in matric, you see that in SPM. They'll spring back even stronger than before.

So these companies just give in, because they have their profits at stake. After all they have this mentality : if you can't fight them, why not join them. Or find a work-around, a loop hole. So long as I can have my business and my profits, I'll just shut one eye.

So what's the big deal?

That's precisely why we ALL need to be aware about this rights issue. Not just shut one eye 'cos oh well its not my business and its seems like its okay-la from the outside, but its EVERYONE's business. Making quite a generalisation here, but Chinese are quite bent on making money, preferring to go into the business world instead of politics (not referring to the money sort). Not that earning money's not a good thing, but we don't give much thought to political issues that do not directly concern us. This don't care/bochap attitude needs to be changed.

[Randomphantom]

this thread triggers another mind-boggling question: is the a limit to human stupidity? maybe this doesn't quite fit into this thread but i think it has some connection.

Suddenly thought of this:

Albert Einstein - The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits

The concept of infinitestupidity... hard to fathom!

[iQing]

I do not think this is some sort of intelligence related issue.

I agree with randomphantom.

That is what happen in our society now.

The Chinese might shut one eye in various fields but they are too sensitive in education field. That is why Chinese make a lot of noise in educational issues.

Well, actually they kept thier mouth shut on various issues.

[gonjeng]

i personally think that the limit totally depends on who's in charge, who's in power and ultimately the political surrounding. whenever there is a need to gain more support from the malays, a new right is introduced... or whenever there is something to cover (corruption for instance), they will come up with something to shut us (the malays) up. hence, kononnyer we own the government for such policies... thats about the limit, which is so far limitless...

(on the impact) nevertheless i do agree with some of y'all that these rights are backfiring on the malays. why? it shouldnt be that hard to figure. when you pamper a child so bad, chances are he/she will be very spoilt...

the impacts on other race, i believe you guys know more since most of my observation and (educated) conversation are amongst the malays pun...

[iQing]

Looks like Malay rights have something to do with malay people's support towards government.

I heard Dr. M said that he cannot reduce Malay rights because UMNO will loose support from the Malays if the government do so.

If that is the case,
the possibility of reducing malay rights is low even if the gap amongst races is zero.

It is politics, not idealism.

- - - - - -

IF
malay rights cannot be reduced so that the government will not loose support,

iThe rights will only increase from time to time.

[gonjeng]

If that is the case,
the possibility of reducing malay rights is low even if the gap amongst races is zero.

well... i disagree on that though... imho, the lower the gap, the easier to reduce the rights. why? coz the malays will not feel inferior anymore.

[Irresistible]

Malays' right made them weaker....
That's what i think.
And the country cannot develop well because of that...
after so many years , we r still like that...

After all, it will be better if " Malaysians' Right For ALL Malaysians"

I agree with u. It shld put a limit on Malay's right !!
For example, most of the staff working in government department(eg.IRB,Kementerian Pendidikan Tinggi) are Malay. Isn't government encourage "Perpaduan Rakyat"?? But, in this case,their counterparts all are MAlay, there is no opportunity to communicate with other nations. I m wondering how to wujud Perpaduan with such policy.

[masdie]

hmm...wonder if they can change the privilege thing if the non-bumis riot?? it worked last time....oppss :twisted:

[__earth]

For example, most of the staff working in government department(eg.IRB,Kementerian Pendidikan Tinggi) are Malay. Isn't government encourage "Perpaduan Rakyat"?? But, in this case,their counterparts all are MAlay, there is no opportunity to communicate with other nations. I m wondering how to wujud Perpaduan with such policy.

are you sure that is the case? or is it that most non-bumis have no interest in joining the civil service?

hmm...wonder if they can change the privilege thing if the non-bumis riot?? it worked last time....oppss :twisted:

as i remember, the NEP was introduced as a reaction to the last big racial riot.

[Thirdshifter]

Sometimes a reality check is good.

Malay right exist till today not because of what happen in 1947. It is still here because well... Malays are racist in general. So are chinese and all the other races there are in Malaysia.

Just look around yourself. How many people that are from a different race is your friend.

The usual stereotyping. I mean for god sake. In some of the most liberal places.. like night clubs it still exist.

For an example, Chillout Penang. If you were a Malay/indian or anything else you'll have to pay a RM50 for the cover charge. If your a chinese its $25. If they have a buy one get one night for for liquor.. well if you were not chinese they will just say no.. we don't have it.

So whenever i go to clubs in Penang i always have to bring my Apek friend to buy the stuff.

Damn those chinese racist motherfookers pisses me off.

All money is red but still...

If you wanted

[kevinkhoo1986]

Sometimes a reality check is good.

Malay right exist till today not because of what happen in 1947. It is still here because well... Malays are racist in general. So are chinese and all the other races there are in Malaysia.

Just look around yourself. How many people that are from a different race is your friend.

The usual stereotyping. I mean for god sake. In some of the most liberal places.. like night clubs it still exist.

For an example, Chillout Penang. If you were a Malay/indian or anything else you'll have to pay a RM50 for the cover charge. If your a chinese its $25. If they have a buy one get one night for for liquor.. well if you were not chinese they will just say no.. we don't have it.

So whenever i go to clubs in Penang i always have to bring my Apek friend to buy the stuff.

Damn those chinese racist motherfookers pisses me off.

All money is red but still...

If you wanted

Well, you are quite true about the matter above. Whenever i buy any goods from the chinese shops, i tend to get a lower price compare to the actual price just because i am a chinese. The price tag might written "RM2.50", but usually if you are a chinese, the "tauke" will tell you the actual price is RM2.00 or so on. Hence you get a cheaper prices. It was quite biased but actually you can't totally blame them(the chinese)as well. Since few decades ago, when the government implemented the DEB, the non-bumi somehow feel that they suddenly became a second class citizen. Bumi can get discount ranged from 5%-7% when they buy houses(It's a huge difference althought the percentage seems small)!, more scholarshilps allocated for them(MARA), higher chances to get promoted/hold higher position in government sector and so on... As a result, IMO the chinese feel that if the Bumi can have so many special rights, why can't we create our own special right as well using our own economy power. Well, it's just my two cents. No harm ya... :wink:

[iQing]

Yup. I agree that racist mentality exist.
Maybe it is due to the limitless Malay rights that gives pressure to the non-Malays that cause the non-Malays to dislike the Malays... am I right? anyone disagree?

Actually I have spoken to some Malay friends before.

They told me that :

"Hak Melayu seumpama NYAWA kepada orang2 Melayu"

I suggest to him that what if all races have balanced right... what about rights are given to both Malays and non-Malays....both parties will be satisfied right?#

He told me "tak boleh"

as if Malay rights has something to do with limiting the rights of non-Malays

[Maestro]

Have you ever wondered decades ago, Parti Negara, founded by Dato Onn bin Jaafar, whom also the founder of UMNO lost the the National Elections badly? This is due to the fact that during that time, most of Malayan citizens, still uncertain about racial intergrations. The Malays think that they are the pure citizen of the country, while the Indian and the Chinese thinks still doesn't believe that one country-one nationality policy seems to be possible.

Now after almost half a century after Malayan Independence, sadly, the Malaysian mentality has not really developed up to the level we dreamt off.. We did get older, but no wiser. The same political party has ruled the country since the day of independence with same policy. However, which political party in this country really promotes total intergration? Therefore, we need to get back to the original concept of politics, all politicians can't be trusted 100%.

By the way, the focus is not on them, because these politicians are nothing without the vote from the people... If Malays, Chinese and Indians still have the same old mentality, it almost impossible to achieve the dreams of One Malaysia. Someone in this thread mentioned that we need to scrap-off our don't-care-attitude. I totally agree with this idea but what have we done to eradicate this attitude?

Rather than discussing about the Malay rights, which in the end leads us nowhere coz Malays will still be Malays; and they will having their rights for almost forever. So why don't this thread starter starts a topic about possiblity of racial intergration, to make the dream of One Malaysia, which in the end, hopefully we could see at one time, everything which is unneccessary will be gone, forever?

Talking about revolution, it's proven by time, it doesn't last long since every revolutionist started a revolution for their own good. In the end, somebody will get unsatissfied and they will start another revolution again. What we do need is evolution instead of revolution. In other words, The Mentality Evolution.

[iQing]

It is not just about racial integration as I have said before.

Some people in bussiness sectors are affected by it.
So are many other people in various sectors.

We are not discussing about the nature of Malay rights here as it is another very different topic.

I think Malay rights is fine but there should be a LIMIT.

We are not talking about whether it should be removed right?

[Randomphantom]

Rights -> Artificially enacted social division

How can we have true perpaduan when we have something that divides us in our constitution, something that dictates privileges on all levels? I remember they used to teach us toleransi in moral. Tolerance among races is simply not good enough. Understanding, empathy and trust is more important. Problem is when politics dictate this social division. I might be supportive of the One Malaysia Ideal. However I am totally skeptical about not practising what one preaches. (*one* here isn't directed towards people here on the boards. I'm walking on dangerous ground here) Racial integration is at best a dream when we have such divisive rights that pervade all aspects of our life.

I think we all know who's the one keeping such a division in place. Not Malays, not Chinese. I believe that there are Malays who are starting to see that these rights limit them instead. I believe that there are those enlightened ones that can give a better answer than "tak boleh!", and join in a good discussion.

So here's hoping that people (mainly Malays as their opinions determine the turning point) will recognise that a whole plethora of Malaysia's problems are due to this ingrained double standards, and we are better off without it, that we feel secure in our ability to compete, to stand together as Malaysians. If we all show politicians that Malaysians Boleh, they'll have to give in soon.

[lyt87]

Yup. I agree that racist mentality exist.
Maybe it is due to the limitless Malay rights that gives pressure to the non-Malays that cause the non-Malays to dislike the Malays... am I right? anyone disagree?

Actually I have spoken to some Malay friends before.

They told me that :

"Hak Melayu seumpama NYAWA kepada orang2 Melayu"

I suggest to him that what if all races have balanced right... what about rights are given to both Malays and non-Malays....both parties will be satisfied right?#

He told me "tak boleh"

as if Malay rights has something to do with limiting the rights of non-Malays

i agree too The "keistimewaan Melayu" is their lives. But how about orang asli, they are the real BUMIPUTRA..
but i never heard about they benefit it as well.

i wonder how malays will live on without the "keistimewaan"..i wonder.

[budakkerek]

as what i tld iQing yesterday, the power to change all these unfairness etc are not in our hands. By this i dont mean, we should just sit quietly and let everything stay as it is.

but, we can change everything when we possess that power. It might take longer than we would like, and yes, change takes time. there's nothing that we can do about it. but, once it happens, it will keep on going, and will not lose steam if we hv continuous support from ppl.

that's the vision of ReCom *i know, old argument bla bla bla*

we're trying to create a more aware Msia, coz we the young ppl today, will b the ones in power tomorrow.

i myself find such ideas such as quota in education/sship awarded etc act more as a crutch rather than helping the Malays. true, getting sship helps those in need of money to go to tertiary education. But on the other hand, it creates the "cukup makan" markah mentality among students. One of my acquaitances once said when we were talking bout scholaships etc, "no need to study so hard la. dapat cukup makan oso can get scholarship wat..we Malay, sure can get wat!?"

His comment, got me thinking, what kind of student are we creating actually? those who strive hard to get good results becoz he wants to and he knows he should, or students who go to school n get an education juz because they hv to, without caring how good or how bad they are doing coz they know, they hv a safety net prepared for them?

As for now, we can try n discuss. but i plead, dont be emotional. Or another 13 May might happen. That, was the result of insensitivity of racial differences.

[iQing]

Yup. I agree that racist mentality exist.
Maybe it is due to the limitless Malay rights that gives pressure to the non-Malays that cause the non-Malays to dislike the Malays... am I right? anyone disagree?

Actually I have spoken to some Malay friends before.

They told me that :

"Hak Melayu seumpama NYAWA kepada orang2 Melayu"

I suggest to him that what if all races have balanced right... what about rights are given to both Malays and non-Malays....both parties will be satisfied right?#

He told me "tak boleh"

as if Malay rights has something to do with limiting the rights of non-Malays

i agree too The "keistimewaan Melayu" is their lives. But how about orang asli, they are the real BUMIPUTRA..
but i never heard about they benefit it as well.

i wonder how malays will live on without the "keistimewaan"..i wonder.


Malays in Singapore are good examples.

I read that malays in Singapore mock the Malays in Malaysia saying that Malays in Malaysia is spoon fed by the tongkat.

Is it true?

[iQing]

as what i tld iQing yesterday, the power to change all these unfairness etc are not in our hands. By this i dont mean, we should just sit quietly and let everything stay as it is.

but, we can change everything when we possess that power. It might take longer than we would like, and yes, change takes time. there's nothing that we can do about it. but, once it happens, it will keep on going, and will not lose steam if we hv continuous support from ppl.

that's the vision of ReCom *i know, old argument bla bla bla*

we're trying to create a more aware Msia, coz we the young ppl today, will b the ones in power tomorrow.

i myself find such ideas such as quota in education/sship awarded etc act more as a crutch rather than helping the Malays. true, getting sship helps those in need of money to go to tertiary education. But on the other hand, it creates the "cukup makan" markah mentality among students. One of my acquaitances once said when we were talking bout scholaships etc, "no need to study so hard la. dapat cukup makan oso can get scholarship wat..we Malay, sure can get wat!?"

His comment, got me thinking, what kind of student are we creating actually? those who strive hard to get good results becoz he wants to and he knows he should, or students who go to school n get an education juz because they hv to, without caring how good or how bad they are doing coz they know, they hv a safety net prepared for them?

As for now, we can try n discuss. but i plead, dont be emotional. Or another 13 May might happen. That, was the result of insensitivity of racial differences.

I believe that cukup makan amongst the Malay is not a baseless statement.
I have met a Malay taxi driver (just as an example)
He told me that it is cukup makan to be a taxi driver. When he needs to earn money, he work. Otherwise he will sit at home and relax.
can get some money from government.

I think if there is a limit, maybe the malays will be more motivated and become productive.

But is the government willing to reduce thier rights to benefit everybody, including the Malays?

[lyt87]

ya la, everyone must stand up at their own. Not just rely on "tongkat".

it is sad to know that "cukup makan" thought spread among malaysian... especially malays.Unlike other country, they compete almost 24 hours... that's why their country, their status improve....

if we keep stay like this,we will be too out for other countries... maybe one day... we will be like Africa....... :cry:

[kevinkhoo1986]

ya la, everyone must stand up at their own. Not just rely on "tongkat".

it is sad to know that "cukup makan" thought spread among malaysian... especially malays.Unlike other country, they compete almost 24 hours... that's why their country, their status improve....

if we keep stay like this,we will be too out for other countries... maybe one day... we will be like Africa....... :cry:

As a matter of fact, Taiwan and South Korea already surpass us. 4 decades ago, Taiwan are far beyond Malaysia, look at them right now, despite the pressure from the China, they still can developed faster than us. Well why? Because they do not have the discrimination policy and in order to success, they have to strive really hard. I would not be surprise if one day Thailand or even China will become more developed than us. It just a matter of time. DEB has already been implemented for more than 3 decades, i think it's more than enough. It's quite true that there were a lot of multi million dolar companies which belonged to Bumiputra nowadays after the implementation of DEB, but how many of them are really established without the support from the goverment like the Genting Group?

[budakkerek]

yea, i know wat you mean
i find it sad also, and at times, even embarassed when i read in the news about the sad things that's happening to ppl of my own race.

i wish they would be more aware and be more proactive instead of just sitting and waiting at the receiving end of everything.

but i guess, what can we do?
the Malays were taught by the British to be "berpuas hati" with what they have.

BUT, we can try n change the mentality of the malays now! :D :D

[iQing]

There is a possibilities that the government is trying to improve the situation but they are not able to change it?

for example Dr M has said that DEB is not successful in his book and he is not able to reduce malay rights because of the fear that the government might loose Malay support.

Maybe we should listen to both side stories, not just blaming the government alone.

But, does anyone has any insider knowledge?

[masdie]

As a matter of fact, Taiwan and South Korea already surpass us.

taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. things go easier there. but i though my mom always tell me not to compare with other people?

[masdie]

i find it sad also, and at times, even embarassed when i read in the news about the sad things that's happening to ppl of my own race.

don't be embarassed. but remember to educate your children about being independant. maybe we're suffering now but i really hope our children will live a better life. budakkerek, i don't care how kerek you are but if we have more people like you (and also some other great people on recom), i guess malaysia would be a better place.

[budakkerek]

i find it sad also, and at times, even embarassed when i read in the news about the sad things that's happening to ppl of my own race.

don't be embarassed. but remember to educate your children about being independant. maybe we're suffering now but i really hope our children will live a better life. budakkerek, i don't care how kerek you are but if we have more people like you (and also some other great people on recom), i guess malaysia would be a better place.

well...what i meant was, i felt embarassed coz these ppl (the other malays), are like my brothers n sisters, but i cant help prevent them from doing all those things. and i wish they would stop taking drugs and all those thingies that dont help make them smarter. It's juz plain stupid.

i wish the gov or at least the ppl in authority would do sthing bout it. i wish they'd see that help is good, but not when it's given excessively.

And yea, i know i'll teach my children about it. Being in an inter racial rship, made me realise even more, how big the difference btw the both of us. My guy would bring up issues that are pressing to him, but not to me. Well, at least, i didnt know it was important to him. and stimes, we would end up fighting bout it, coz i'd feel offended stime w things he say bout my race, my ppl. it hurts, because i know it's true n there's nothing i can do bout it.

i hate it when ppl talk bout race and who's bttr and who's not.
and having such thing as malay rights, sort of make us malays sound like we're super and more important than other ppl.

dont get me wrong. i dont hate my own race.
but being here in oz and seeing what happened to the Aborigines as an effect of the previous gov policies, made me worry. Msia might be like dat one day. Too much help fr the gov, might end up crippling the Malays instead of helping them.

masdie, thanks for the compliment :D
i have been told, i am "too worldly" for Malaysia =P

[masdie]

budakkerek, i didn't realise you're a female until just now. wow.

[kevinkhoo1986]

As a matter of fact, Taiwan and South Korea already surpass us.

taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. things go easier there. but i though my mom always tell me not to compare with other people?

You are correct in the sense that taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. But don't forget that the pressure from the mainland China towards Taiwan. Everyday, Taiwanese fear that one day they might attacked by the Chinese. Some other countries are not willing to trade with Taiwan in order to maintain a close relationship with China. Not to mention about their natural disasters like earthquake and so on.

Yupe, my mother told me that as well. But IMO, if we do not compare to each other, how are we going to success? It's not challenging at all :D

budakkerek : Actually you don't have to feel embarrassed about your own race. I believe it is due to the flaws in our government policy that make it such way. There is no such thing that a certain race is better than the other race.

[stevemc90]

As a matter of fact, Taiwan and South Korea already surpass us.

taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. things go easier there. but i though my mom always tell me not to compare with other people?

You are correct in the sense that taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. But don't forget that the pressure from the mainland China towards Taiwan. Everyday, Taiwanese fear that one day they might attacked by the Chinese. Some other countries are not willing to trade with Taiwan in order to maintain a close relationship with China. Not to mention about their natural disasters like earthquake and so on.

Yupe, my mother told me that as well. But IMO, if we do not compare to each other, how are we going to success? It's not challenging at all :D

budakkerek : Actually you don't have to feel embarrassed about your own race. I believe it is due to the flaws in our government policy that make it such way. There is no such thing that a certain race is better than the other race.

dude, lucky thing you know that we're in a multiracial country unlike taiwan!

and for ur info, US is behind taiwan. do u know that? oh, maybe you dont.

[Randomphantom]

Woah, inter racial relationship? That's really a step towards racial integration...
aha... not funny at all.

[kevinkhoo1986]

As a matter of fact, Taiwan and South Korea already surpass us.

taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. things go easier there. but i though my mom always tell me not to compare with other people?

You are correct in the sense that taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. But don't forget that the pressure from the mainland China towards Taiwan. Everyday, Taiwanese fear that one day they might attacked by the Chinese. Some other countries are not willing to trade with Taiwan in order to maintain a close relationship with China. Not to mention about their natural disasters like earthquake and so on.

Yupe, my mother told me that as well. But IMO, if we do not compare to each other, how are we going to success? It's not challenging at all :D

budakkerek : Actually you don't have to feel embarrassed about your own race. I believe it is due to the flaws in our government policy that make it such way. There is no such thing that a certain race is better than the other race.

dude, lucky thing you know that we're in a multiracial country unlike taiwan!

and for ur info, US is behind taiwan. do u know that? oh, maybe you dont.

I really don't get it, especially when u said that US is behind Taiwan. It's too general for me. Perhaps you should clarify further in terms of what? Are you trying to tell that US is more developed than Taiwan at this moment or?

[Thirdshifter]

I would say oth taiwan and south korea enefited from the close ties to USA.

taiwan being a democracy defying china communism.. had made them a USA natural ally.

Same with S.Korea... there.s the north korea effect.

I wouldn't give oth country to much credit.

Even W. germany is what it is today because of USA.

Malaysia on the other hand don't do so well in terms with their realtionship with American businesses.

Singapore on the other hand do. They still have the American base or something over there right?

But most of all... we all Malaysians are just dumb. For an example, IQing quoted Dr M as saying "DEB is not successful in his book and he is not able to reduce malay rights because of the fear that the government might loose Malay support."

What is the point of that quote?

Is it that Dr M knows the problem but unwilling to fix it because he's afraid that His Malay supremacist party, UMNO will loose the next election?

We all should realize that the entire policy created by BN is full of shit. Poke your finger into your brain and let it vomit all the shit that it had swallowed for years.

Dr M is an appeaser. He'll say one thing to the chinese and come ack to mesyuarat oersidangan UMNO and say another thing. It is a shame that Dr M is so frequently quoted on recom.

I say fook wawasan 2020. Lets be realistic and take a look around. Malaysia is just getting by. We are not progressing.

Vote those guys who are unwilling to change policies out. It is so pathethic that Dr M actually had to retire.

Lets make all the bastard accountable for they had done to an entire generation.

I say we all do a peaceful protest.. like wear a black band on your arm or something..

[stevemc90]

As a matter of fact, Taiwan and South Korea already surpass us.

taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. things go easier there. but i though my mom always tell me not to compare with other people?

You are correct in the sense that taiwan and south korea are not multiracial like malaysia. But don't forget that the pressure from the mainland China towards Taiwan. Everyday, Taiwanese fear that one day they might attacked by the Chinese. Some other countries are not willing to trade with Taiwan in order to maintain a close relationship with China. Not to mention about their natural disasters like earthquake and so on.

Yupe, my mother told me that as well. But IMO, if we do not compare to each other, how are we going to success? It's not challenging at all :D

budakkerek : Actually you don't have to feel embarrassed about your own race. I believe it is due to the flaws in our government policy that make it such way. There is no such thing that a certain race is better than the other race.

dude, lucky thing you know that we're in a multiracial country unlike taiwan!

and for ur info, US is behind taiwan. do u know that? oh, maybe you dont.

I really don't get it, especially when u said that US is behind Taiwan. It's too general for me. Perhaps you should clarify further in terms of what? Are you trying to tell that US is more developed than Taiwan at this moment or?

im sorry, i left out some words i believe...... what i meant was US is behind Taiwan's back. Taiwan has the balls to argue/fight off with China because they have united states of america to back them up. be it military or funding.

sorry for the misleading statement.

[trojan209]

im sorry, i left out some words i believe...... what i meant was US is behind Taiwan's back. Taiwan has the balls to argue/fight off with China because they have united states of america to back them up. be it military or funding.

sorry for the misleading statement.


that's quite true. china have threatened to attack taiwan for so many times in so many years but NOTHING happened. usa is supporting taiwan thus providing some protection. the problem solved. the same thing goes to s. korea. these countries are also one race nation and they can implement any radical policies without to worry much about race riots. that's why they can progress in a short time compare to malaysia.

malaysia on the other hand cannot do the same things like them. malaysia still has an extra task to unite all races (which i think, a lot of things are yet to be done) and to progress n develop on the same time. u cannot compare the one who do 2 jobs in a same time with the one who only do one job. of coz the one with one job will finish faster. masdie had pointed out that we shouldn't compare ourselves with other. to tell the truth, we shouldn't. we are unique to other nation in this world.

ok. enough with that stuff. back to the topic. i still believe that malays will someday let off their "tongkat". as we can see, malays today are better than they are 30 years ago. although they are still weak but they are becoming better. there are more rich malays.

this "tongkat" seems to limitless cos the political parties want to use it as bait to get vote from poor malays, who actually couldn't survive without this "tongkat". and for rich and capable malays, this special rights do not mean much for them. for the time being, this special right is limitless. nothing we can do indeed. but there is one faster way to terminate this hak istimewa. it is actually really a crazy idea.

all the non-bumis must by any means help all malays to prosper, so that they will be stronger faster. and by the time the malays become equally strong with other non-bumis (let say after 15 years, perhaps), they themselves will feel that hak istimewa is not more relevant and will terminate it themselves. i think, if we let them to prosper on their own with their "magical tongkat", it will take more years maybe even hundreds years to achieve. let's be generous and suffer a little bit more pain for a shorter time and have the good times after 15-20 years than share the suffer with ur great great grandchildren for hundreds years.

p/s : i do strongly believe that no one would agree with my "brilliant" idea. no offence, everybody. i just let out some absurdity coming out from my head...haha..plus there is no guarantee that with all non-bumis helps, malays will be stronger faster and there is also no guarantee that malays will give up their special rights that easily.... hope that no one would kill me for being crazy for a second.

[stevemc90]

i agree with you, trojan.

[budakkerek]

budakkerek, i didn't realise you're a female until just now. wow.

arghh...NOT AGAIN!
:? 8O :?

ppl keep thinking i'm a guy
i wonder why...

Anyway, back to the issue,
i've met some really dirt poor malays, living in fishing villages and such.
when asked about the gov and what they think of it, they said things like, "oh, kerajaan ni bagus lah. Selalu fikir pasal orang melayu etc."

and these are the ppl who dont even have enough money to eat 3 meals a day. Looking at their houses, and the palid squalor they live in , made me ask them.
"makcik, org kerajaan xde datang ke, tolong baiki rumah ke, bagi bantuan ke?"

they would juz say, "org gomen ni sibuk. mn la diorg ade ms nak dtg jupe kita org kampung nih."

what made me wonder, is how come these ppl, who hv been clearly neglected by the gov, kept on voting to keep these lousy, nvr do as i prmised politicians back into power?

becoz they keep on being fed, the promise of a better future, and that if org melayu tak undi org melayu, bangsa lain akan memerintah. bangsa kita akan hilang hak ke atas negara ini bla bla bla

Stimes, i wish politicians would just haul ass n move to Alcatraz or smwhere like dat. all they do, is create fearin the ppl so they'll be kept in power and more stupid laws to keep the coutnry fr changing and become bttr.

[bp_ffei]

Well, many Malaysians are poor in their "political" knowledge. They don't understand what's a democracy about, why they should vote, etc. The government says "it is the people's right and responsibility to vote", but that's it.

Can't say I'm clear about politics :oops: , but at least I'm more conscious of it. So basically, we must firstly educate the people about politics (which, I think, the current government would dread to do). Malaysians are generally apathetic to politics, focusing instead on studying and working... But politics is the machine of change that can power greater growth!

What political party would risk their popularity by telling the people who vote for them: "We will be abolishing your special rights gradually. It is for your own good."? Even though that may be the right thing to do...

iQing mentioned about Malays in Singapore. Sorry that I can't say much about what they think of Malays in Malaysia. I just wanted to point out that although no special rights are granted to them, they are provided help through Yayasan MENDAKI, which involves tuition for schoolchildren, loans etc. Their website: http://www.mendaki.org.sg

[masdie]

Stimes, i wish politicians would just haul ass n move to Alcatraz or smwhere like dat. all they do, is create fearin the ppl so they'll be kept in power and more stupid laws to keep the coutnry fr changing and become bttr.

i couldn't agree more. politicians are the ones giving us the hard-times. someone should kick some sense and knowledge into them. they're so hopeless. bahh

[broccoli]

it's really easy to understand something but it's hard to apply it.

i understand that malays have special rights, i understand that it was a part of the give-and-take agreement our forefathers had decades ago, i understand the whole %$#$% constitution-says-so thingy and i understand that to stay "muhibah", we've got to be tolerant n not touch on sensitive issue. (like i'm doing now)

but, come on, it's hard to keep a cool head when u see people acheiving wat they want at the expense of u urself. the form six vs matrikulasi case is a classic one not to mention this jpa controversy.

malaysia is a beautiful country.... i love this nation and it's people (malays included) but come on, sampai bila nak pakai tongkat?? nanti tak tau berjalan kelak!!!

[broccoli]

it's really easy to understand something but it's hard to apply it.

i understand that malays have special rights, i understand that it was a part of the give-and-take agreement our forefathers had decades ago, i understand the whole %$#$% constitution-says-so thingy and i understand that to stay "muhibah", we've got to be tolerant n not touch on sensitive issue. (like i'm doing now)

but, come on, it's hard to keep a cool head when u see people acheiving wat they want at the expense of u urself. the form six vs matrikulasi case is a classic one not to mention this jpa controversy.

malaysia is a beautiful country.... i love this nation and its people (malays included) but come on, sampai bila nak pakai tongkat?? nanti tak tau berjalan kelak!!!

[iQing]

I think both non-Malays and Malays are made to have FEAR so that they can be ruled easily. Do you agree.?

[budakkerek]

malaysia is a beautiful country.... i love this nation and it's people (malays included) but come on, sampai bila nak pakai tongkat?? nanti tak tau berjalan kelak!!!

it's really easy to bash ppl up.
but let's think, what's the point bashing up the ppl?
they're not the ones who made all these rules
it's all those in power. That's why its important to change the mentality of the ppl today, coz we'll be the ones in power tomorrow. and then we can change the way Msia works

you think all malays like to be pampered?
stimes i wish the gov would just lighten up and try n be fair to everyone.

like the story bout the mouse and the milk
a bit of milk, is indulgence
but swimming in a whole big jar of it, can drown the mouse.

that's how the malays might be in a few years, if the gov keep on pouring all the 'sweet and false' sense of security on them.

[misled_youth]

you think all malays like to be pampered?
stimes i wish the gov would just lighten up and try n be fair to everyone.

This is one of the RARE reasons in which I want Chinese Ah Beng and Ah Lian's to be thrown into BTN and brainwashed a little bit.

Now they only see things from their point of view.

It's the policy they should be against, not any ethnic group.

[iQing]

Actually,
BTN brainwash people the other way round.

[trojan209]

Actually,
BTN brainwash people the other way round.

err...how? i don't understand

[masdie]

err...actually hor, i think my friends who have been to btn hor, they look and think the same, just like before going for btn. they're the same before and after btn. no effect at all. hmm...maybe they ponteng the programmes during btn.

[broccoli]

it's really easy to bash ppl up.
but let's think, what's the point bashing up the ppl?
they're not the ones who made all these rules
it's all those in power. That's why its important to change the mentality of the ppl today, coz we'll be the ones in power tomorrow. and then we can change the way Msia works

you think all malays like to be pampered?
stimes i wish the gov would just lighten up and try n be fair to everyone.

like the story bout the mouse and the milk
a bit of milk, is indulgence
but swimming in a whole big jar of it, can drown the mouse.

that's how the malays might be in a few years, if the gov keep on pouring all the 'sweet and false' sense of security on them.

yo, no offense meant. its exactly wat i meant. not that we hate u guys or love to bash people up. jz that in certain circumstances (as i said b4), u jz get frustrated coz u try ur very very best and due to some @<hidden>#$% policy, u dun get wat u want. kudos to those who disapprove of such policies but IN REALITY these policies still exist. it doesn't take u very long to figure out y! jz imagine, if people can get pissed off by some stupid remarks written by some stupid ahbeng, wat more if they are deprived of chances they deserve.
please, my point is, we UNDERSTAND but we still can't accept it.
jz an ahbeng's comment
[/quote]

[broccoli]

ps. wat in the WORLD is btn? national service?

[deaf-knee]

I think it's not that btn doesn't help all these racial issues la. It's like ns. When I was in NS I felt all brain-washed and everything la. Seriously, coming from me that's a very big deal. I was damn perpaduan-ed and all that. But then NS finished and real life began and then all thoughts of muhibbah and perpaduan vanished just like that. Because of what I'm also not too sure, probably the mindset of the people around you.

*and yah I also agree that damn cheena ah bengs and ah lians should be sumbat-ed into a btn/ns equivalent programme. hehe.

[iQing]

it's really easy to bash ppl up.
but let's think, what's the point bashing up the ppl?
they're not the ones who made all these rules
it's all those in power. That's why its important to change the mentality of the ppl today, coz we'll be the ones in power tomorrow. and then we can change the way Msia works

you think all malays like to be pampered?
stimes i wish the gov would just lighten up and try n be fair to everyone.

like the story bout the mouse and the milk
a bit of milk, is indulgence
but swimming in a whole big jar of it, can drown the mouse.

that's how the malays might be in a few years, if the gov keep on pouring all the 'sweet and false' sense of security on them.

yo, no offense meant. its exactly wat i meant. not that we hate u guys or love to bash people up. jz that in certain circumstances (as i said b4), u jz get frustrated coz u try ur very very best and due to some @<hidden>#$% policy, u dun get wat u want. kudos to those who disapprove of such policies but IN REALITY these policies still exist. it doesn't take u very long to figure out y! jz imagine, if people can get pissed off by some stupid remarks written by some stupid ahbeng, wat more if they are deprived of chances they deserve.
please, my point is, we UNDERSTAND but we still can't accept it.
jz an ahbeng's comment
[/quote]

he rejected JPA scholarship

[budakkerek]

hey broccoli
no worries man
i'm not that fired up
maybe my words were a bit too harsh or sthing like dat
sorry too yea?

anyway, BTN = biro tata negara

for me, it was freaking boring coz all they did was read the buku panduan, got 4 modules *i cant believe i did an esei for remag on BTN* 8O

and all they did the modules. All bout how kjaan this..kjaan dat..frigging boring, man..

the fun part, was food *6 times a day! yeay like in MRSM haha*
and the activity.
though they almost killed me when they made us run 2 km back n forth
huh
gila la..semput ahaha

anyway, yea..like deaf-knee said, while you're i the camp, you feel all fired up bla bla bla
but once you've returned to the real world, somehow it doesnt mttr
not that you dont care
but maybe coz we're powerless, in the sense that, even if we care SO fricking much, we cant do nothing bout it.
coz it's those in power who can change things

i'm not saying we should just throw out Malay rights, coz it's in the perlembagaan and to outright buang the artikel 153 might mean, more bloodshed. another 13 Mei.

but, we should lessen the bantuan kerajaan terhadap org melayu.
slowly, til they get used to the idea, and know they can rely on their own.
that's the problem i guess
that the gov has been giving so much help to malay that most of them feel that they CANT possibly do anything w/out the gov's help. :(

[iQing]

I think some non Malays feel that
they work hard to develop the country's economy and they pay tax and the tax money are used to feed the Malays, without LIMIT.

maybe that makes a lot of non Malays very unhappy.

[misled_youth]

*and yah I also agree that damn cheena ah bengs and ah lians should be sumbat-ed into a btn/ns equivalent programme. hehe.

You are only qualified to do so, if you are cheena, like me.

[trojan209]

he rejected JPA scholarship


whoooooaaaaaaaaaa *almost fainted*

the others were almost dying to appeal the scholarship while he rejected the offer just like that.

[iQing]

he rejected JPA scholarship


whoooooaaaaaaaaaa *almost fainted*

the others were almost dying to appeal the scholarship while he rejected the offer just like that.


yes.
and he is the one who complains that JPA doesn't give enough scholarship to all.

[budakkerek]

'he' who?
who tolak the scholarship?

[trojan209]

'he' who?
who tolak the scholarship?


utoreal

try to read his ungrateful comments here

http://recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=search&search_author=Utoreal

he turned down jpa scholarship and yet he is the one who loudly whinning that jpa didn't give enough places for non-malays....


i have nothing more to say......:roll:

[budakkerek]

oh yea..i know
i guess some ppl juz know how to whinge, and blab and talk bad of other ppl and things and not do a thing to try n fix it

utoreal, if you're reading this, i'm ashamed of your attitude.
first you whinge,
then when you actually got what you wanted, you didnt want it

ungrateful, i would say

*i hate whingers*

oh yea...Aussies say, whinge, which means complain :wink:

[aftershox]

he actually rejected the scholarship ar?
after ppl tried to talk him out of it...
seriously jpa are giving the scholarship to the wrong ppl...
if i got it i would definitely accept it and i also applied for engineering...haiz... :cry:

[budakkerek]

well, we're not sure yet. but this guy seems intent on not going to accept the offer. :roll:

hmm..why worry? if he rejects it, more chance to other "more grateful" and perhps deserving ppl out there :wink: :wink:

[stevemc90]

i'm not saying we should just throw out Malay rights, coz it's in the perlembagaan and to outright buang the artikel 153 might mean, more bloodshed. another 13 Mei.

:(

dude, it's ARTICLE

[masdie]

i'm not saying we should just throw out Malay rights, coz it's in the perlembagaan and to outright buang the artikel 153 might mean, more bloodshed. another 13 Mei.

:(

dude, it's ARTICLE

hey stevemc90, you called her a dude for god's sake. she's a girl la man. you no call no girl a dude emkay. she's a girl!!

[Thirdshifter]

the real spelling is... who gives a shit.

Anyway please stick to the topic.

[budakkerek]

i'm not saying we should just throw out Malay rights, coz it's in the perlembagaan and to outright buang the artikel 153 might mean, more bloodshed. another 13 Mei.

:(

dude, it's ARTICLE

wallllaaaaaa
keeping tabs eyy?

:twisted: :twisted:

[stevemc90]

i'm not saying we should just throw out Malay rights, coz it's in the perlembagaan and to outright buang the artikel 153 might mean, more bloodshed. another 13 Mei.

:(

dude, it's ARTICLE

hey stevemc90, you called her a dude for god's sake. she's a girl la man. you no call no girl a dude emkay. she's a girl!!


i know la dude..... she explained it in one of the threads and i happened to read it...... :P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

[budakkerek]

oke oke
no gaduh
no fight

chill
i'm cool
are you? :wink: :wink:

[gohweihan]

I think both non-Malays and Malays are made to have FEAR so that they can be ruled easily. Do you agree.?

Only with fear can they control. When UMNO keeps harping on defending rights, we ultimately have to ask ourselves this question - defend them from who? The same applies to MCA and their stand on things like vernacular education.

Ultimately, it's all fear - with fear, even the simplest solutions sounds like the best, which is what the government is doing.

This situation is akin to that of Nazi Germany. Then, the Nazi created fear and anger towards the Jewish community so that they remain in power. Now, the different political parties are playing the same game among the people so that they stay on top, and form a coalition just for the sake of governing.

[gohweihan]

'he' who?
who tolak the scholarship?


utoreal

try to read his ungrateful comments here

http://recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=search&search_author=Utoreal

he turned down jpa scholarship and yet he is the one who loudly whinning that jpa didn't give enough places for non-malays....


i have nothing more to say......:roll:

From utoreal's comments, it's observed that he seems to have a biased perception towards the bumiputeras. While it's easy to dismiss him as whining, we should also ask ourselves this - why are there people like this in Malaysia? What is the root cause for this situation to happen?

These are the important things to identify, because ultimately for every one utoreal, there are thousands more out there.

[iQing]

what cause those people like utoreal have such dissatisfaction?

what is your opinion.?

IMO it is something to do with imbalance in various aspects amongst races and the government policies....

and also it is due to thier upbringing and personal experience.

[gonjeng]

This situation is akin to that of Nazi Germany. Then, the Nazi created fear and anger towards the Jewish community so that they remain in power. Now, the different political parties are playing the same game among the people so that they stay on top, and form a coalition just for the sake of governing.

you dont have to go back all the way to the world wars man... a clear example nowadays is how the heck bush got re-elected...

anyhow, IMO there may be some contribution from the awareness aspect. one will feel what one goes through, but one may fail to realize the shoes others are in. we ought to see what is directly in front of us but most of the time and most ppl fail to see the things beyond what their eyes can grasp. while some of the blame are on the government on how they are handling these issues at hand, i do believe that the ppl (in general) are at fault also.

plus, ever manage a group of ppl of more than 10, for example? like how many times as a leader you can satisfy all of your group members with your decision? IMO, ppl ought to understand that some decisions (i repeat some, and not all) may not be in our side. the least harmful ways are normally the chosen path :)

sorry for the kinda putar belit ayat. 7 am is way too early for me :D

[the_losing_end]

hiccups hiccupss...

malay rights should really be increased...

it really should be...

really should....

if it's not.......

so unfair...

[sabishii]

Malays' right made them weaker....
That's what i think.
And the country cannot develop well because of that...
after so many years , we r still like that...

After all, it will be better if " Malaysians' Right For ALL Malaysians"

That's what Lee Kuan Yew said earlier before he was so disappointed and had to break off with M'sia..

History repeats itself in funny ways, huh?

[blurboy]

I can still remember from form 3 and 5 sejarah.

It's clearly stated that one of the agreements in PERJANJIAN MURNI is there would be Bumiputera Rights in exchange for non-Bumi citizenship!

So, it would only be fair if the non-bumis give up their Malaysian citizenship for the governement to stop bumi rights, right?

p/s: Please please please get the term right.. It's NOT MALAY RIGHTS, it's BUMIPUTERA RIGHTS!!

[blurboy]

Malays' right made them weaker....
That's what i think.
And the country cannot develop well because of that...
after so many years , we r still like that...

After all, it will be better if " Malaysians' Right For ALL Malaysians"

That's what Lee Kuan Yew said earlier before he was so disappointed and had to break off with M'sia..

History repeats itself in funny ways, huh?

Lee Kuan Yew can say whatever he wants but I dont see any "Towering Malays" in Singapore that the Malay community can be proud of!! So how does it make them stronger in Singapore??? Everyone has their own agenda including LKY! :?

Are you sure Malaysia hasn't been developing well?? Just compare the size of Malaysia and Singapore and the ratio of development!!

[Ace_Spade]

Malaysia is known as a multi-racial country, we always say,"oh we malaysians are like a big family even though there are malays, chinese, indians, serani, etc etc...but frankly who dares to speak out their mind...of course bumiputras have more priorities...but what can you do? raise this issue in the parliament? anyway, i am quite satisfied with the rights given to non-malays right now.

[iQing]

stick to the topic and try not to talk about the nature of malay rights.
we are just discussing about its LIMIT.

[blurboy]

If you could just remember events few years back...

1. The government via education ministry demolished the quota system to public universities and replaced it with 100% pure meritocracy. I don't think the bumis benefit more!

2. MRSM (Maktab Rendah Sains Mara)s were open to non-bumis

3. Matriculation colleges were open to non-bumis

4. Certain SSBP (Sekolah Sains Berasrama Penuh)s were changed to SSBPI (Intergrasi) with non-bumi students

Well well well, I see non-bumis benefiting BUMI RIGHTS when they should not.. Therefore, there should not be any limits to Bumi rights because eventually Malaysians of all races will still benefit.. yes there will be groups of people who will be unhappy but at the end some will benefit and some will lose.. That's just the way of life..
No one can satisfy everyone!

I plea again.. Please Please Please get the term right!! It 's BUMIPUTERA RIGHTS not malay rights!!!

[iQing]

it is just label.
Hak Orang Melayu or Malay rights is the same.
yes I am aware of that and I purposely type Malay rights.
thanks for sharing ;)

[taufiq]

a good one iQing!

I really would like to see more equality happen everywhere in the world. But if you guys think the bumi's right is okay so far.. that should be a good sign of a good toleration among races in Malaysia.

[iQing]

I feel ok with the rights but if it is limitless until the status of other races are affected,
it is not good.

[taufiq]

The rights have been outlined and people can't just add up here and there to the rights isn't it? We're not supposed to see people fighting to get a cab because a bumi is saying that it's his/her bumi's right to get the cab first...

I think the government should make it clear to everyone the limit of bumi's right at this time. They have been changing the rights a few times a go (ex: read iQing's post before) so they should make it clear to everyone. Well maybe they did.. but i wasn't aware

oh no.. my exam is just 3 hours away... what am i doing here?

[petertok]

I think the DEB should only be applied to those non-bumi who are born in china or india. New generation of non-bumi who are born in malaysia should ne treat equally because all of us are malaysian. This shows that the bumi is less competent and "kiasu". With this kind of thinking, bumi is unlikely to succeed. For ur info, the chinese and indian still can succeed in all fields although there are a lot of constraints. Dont you think it is time for bumi to change their attitude and thinking? I hate discrimination and so i aim to be a weapon engineer(to correct the unfairness in this world).

Mind telling us what u're going to do? Or you could send me a pm :lol:

[iQing]

If racist remarks are made,
I will have to ask for this thread to be locked.

[digimushu]

Utoreal,

The weapons designer may not be the one using it. What if someone uses your weapon to commit mass genocide? I leave the choice in your hands.

[breakout7]

LIMIT of Malay Rights??and not abolishment of it?okok..i'll try to stick to the topic.

i think of all the posts, blurboys' struck me most as...insightful.

His points on the Govt introducing the merit-based uni entrance(albeit still arguable, the whole STPM vs Matrics thingy), MRSM opening its doors to non-bumis, etc...are very observant. Hvae you guys read/heard of the book, The Malay Dilemma by Tun M??If u have, proceed to read on the Chinese Dilemma written by i-cant-recall. Anyways, i, a malay, was fortunate enough to be invited to the formal launching of MCA Club of Australia(by virtue that im from Kelab UMNO) here in Sydney and the author happened to be there and there was a slot in which he was to concisely summarise the gist of his piece.

Among his many interesting points, he mentioned something that quite simply struck a chord in harmony with mine.

"After 50 years of Independance, i see that the CHINESE IN MALAYSIA are performing equally, if not more impressive as the Malays in business,education etc even WITHOUT the help of the Govt. As such we should be thankful to the Govt. becaue without it, we could never have achieved what we have"----or something along these lines. I apologize if i have gotten it wrong. Ultimately, he made a good point.

That is one thing i want us to think about. The next is about Singapore and LKY(what is he now?the Senior Minister?Minister Mentor?kakaka..talk about dynastic and dictatorial rule..). remember how Spore got into being?actually, it was kind of a grey area in our history. believe me, if u re-read hte books as an impartial reader, u would go "why the hell did they have to make their own country?". If Pakistan separated from India under Mohammed Ali Jinnah bcos of religion, we separated from Spore bcos of....u guessed it. As pakistan eventually became a nation for Muslims, Spore became a nation for...u guessed it.However clear the reasons were, Tunku Abd Rahman and the malay rulers were STILL being generous and said "OK Kuan Yew, u go and have ur own country"..tsk tsk..Luckily, we had the genius of Tun Tan Cheng Lok and Sambanthan who stayed in msia realising the need of a MALAYSIA and all it has to offer.

The Malays IMHO were too generous during the independance, giving up what little rights they have to the immigrants just so that the British were to recognise us as an independant sovereign state. What rights u ask?one right i could see is in economics. For instance, did the British beg the chinese or indian immigrants for rights to mining tin in Perak?nope, they went to the malay rulers and did whatever they had to doi.e. cheat, trade territories etc.In essence the Brits recognised that malays owned/ruled/developed/(insert whatever word suits u) the land.Fast forward, chinese( i am so so sorry if i sound racist but just hitting u with hard facts, just like they do in BTN) became very rich and malays stayed poor EVEN with NEP, special rights etc..whose problem is this, the special rights? the Bumis(malays, for context) or non-Bumis(chinese for context)? hypothetically put, we are made of Malay, Chinese, Indian, and 'other'(funny funny but pity pity for them). I think the burden of the special rights lays on.....suprise suprise...Indians and others, predominantly...why?

Malays want to maximise their rights, and Chinese( i say only chinses because this is the truth, IMO) want to limit em if not ablolish. Either way Indians lose.Back to topic, what is the LIMIT?there is no such thing, at least for now. the thing that matters is how u seize the opportunities. Don't believe me? just ask Quek Leng Chan, Vincent Tan, Ananda krishnan(u catch my drift--if u still hadn't noticed, they're all non-Bumis).

[sabishii]

I hate discrimination and so i aim to be a weapon engineer(to correct the unfairness in this world).

think out the box, why be a killer when you could make a difference by being a humanitarian? did you think Nobel died a peaceful death knowing that his creation is going to cost so much human lives?

[sabishii]

the last post was off topic, sorry about that. now back to the topic, i think that there should be a LIMIT towards the special rights, but given the current scenario, it doesn't seem as though there would be any clear definition as to what the limit would be, at least in the near future.

all these malay special rights were all thanks to the brits for trying to please the malay rulers of the time. did the brits really took it seriously when they talk about special rights? do they mean mere rights of the land or more than that? no one really knows. imho, it's just one of their ways to keep the malay ruler's mouth shut while they go about getting what they want.

a sudden thought arose, excuse my poor historical knowledge, anyone know what happened when the malay federates were established? what rights did the brits gave bumiputeras and how well did they enforce it? pls enlighten me.

[misled_youth]

This is a stupid thread about stupid policy that does not do anything constructive.

I say give as much rights to Bumi's as possible. Give them as many handouts, scholarships, loans, whatever!

In the end, it is those who can strive without crutches who benefits the most.

[vseehua]

personally i'm not against any kind of help provided that it'll help the targets, not make them even worse off than before...and i think we have to lose something precious b4 we start appreciate the things around us...so i support the notion of reducing the level of support provided so that some classes of people won't get too reliant on it and ultimately destroying themselves :)

[Jhuen]

personally i'm not against any kind of help provided that it'll help the targets, not make them even worse off than before...and i think we have to lose something precious b4 we start appreciate the things around us...so i support the notion of reducing the level of support provided so that some classes of people won't get too reliant on it and ultimately destroying themselves :)

true..if people are spoon-fed too often,it wont help them to be a more independent person..they'll just end up waiting for things to be given and happen to them..to me,that's an obstacle to achieving success.

[vseehua]

thats why we must take off the support so that they can build for themselves...but i think it's better to do it slowly, as in fixing the foundations of a building, we can't just take away or the whole building will collapse..its better to do it step by step, so that they can take it step by step.. :)

[revive]

ppl of all ages,its really a waste to talk here.if only we could bring it to the parliament n debate freely..wow...issues like CSMU,we can expect chairs n punches flying everywhere :lol:

[abc2005]

have you all followed the news on UMNO AGM? the NEP and meritocracy issues are touched again by some in the meeting. have you heard that the privileges need to be prolonged untill year 2020 by UMNO Youth? NEP to be revived again, liken to the situation after 1970? Meritocracy(even though not transparent) to be scrapped? Malay Agenda? WHAT THE HECK?! what about other minorities? Even after 48 years of independence, the racial discrimination still exists and pervades freely in whole M'sia. What a sad story... :(

[revive]

this country can only be describe wif 1 word,SUCKS!

[sabishii]

this country can only be describe wif 1 word,SUCKS!

no, it doesn't suck. it sucks because people are giving up their hopes for the government, but the country is not at fault for having a hangat-hangat tahi ayam government, are they? no, i don't believe that the opposition parties are that much better off too. what it takes is a change in mentality in the society. and this i dare say would be the long term solution for this issue. to the politicians, the special priveledge topic has been a mere tool of propaganda in order to gain more votes. malay right? do you think they genuinely care about malay rights simply because it's an ideology that is worth fighting for? NO! look at those guys, they're rich. they are the ones who are reaping the benefits from the NEP policy.

Why would they ever slay the chicken who would lay golden eggs for them? ha, politics.

[byzhanii_bogn]

fooo yo....

is it me or is it true that everyone think it's time to abolish the special status of being "bumiputera"

i have this thought, we're all born here, HERE IN MALAYSIA, we're called MALAYSIAN, but we're NOT BUMIPUTERA. what the heck? i thought bumiputera are aborigins, the original people of a place. what? are we aliens, we pop up in this country and walah, just because our ancestors moved in from other country, we're never a bumiputera?

why is it that there are still all the unjust when we're all MALAYSIANS? i thought we're all suppose to live together, harmoniously (yuck, i know i know). but don't u want that kind of life?

i mean, look at what's happening? meritocracy in education? my foot it is... just look

fairness in business? heh...

corruption free?? who telan the most? ikan besar tidak tangkap, tangkap ikan kecil pula. what the heck?

[jaX]

a limit on malay rights? i feel there should be a limit. nothing should ever be limitless because then it can be easily abused. however, putting a limit on malay rights would mean amending the constitution, and that is almost impossible. well, face it, it's impossible. the end.

i guess that's how most people feel about the question of a "limit" to malay rights. not to kill discussion or anything, but it's a dead end. there won't be a limit because there's no way a limit can be placed legally and in a satisfactory manner which every citizen can agree with. perhaps it's a fault of our forefathers for not considering seriously about putting in a "limit", but as a consequence of that, we'll just have to live with it.

i read a previous post that the rights can be abolished when they are no longer necessary.

last night, i asked a friend to help me type out an article by sunday. he said he'll do it, but was surprised that he actually had a significant amount of time to do it. so, i said it'd be great if he could actually hand in the article earlier.

know what he said? "would you actually expect anyone to hand in anything before the deadline once you've set one?"

it's the same thing with the "eventual" abolishment of malay rights. it won't happen because there isn't even a deadline to adhere to.

anyway, at the end of it all, the only thing that really matters is our attitude towards malay rights. i know there are some malays who think it's time they were allowed to work hard and compete without their special rights because they feel they are able to stand on their own. on the other hand, there are still people who need the malay rights because they're not quite ready yet.

and let's face it, this debate is mostly about some chinese who feel they are cheated out of opportunities thanks to malay rights. well guess what? there's no point whining about it instead of working your way out of being "cheated"! if the chinese living in malaysia at the time when the racial bust-up was at its worst managed to crawl out and stand tall today without stirring further racial riots, what is stopping you from doing the same?

it's the attitude. if we can look beyond the malay rights thing and instead just keep working hard and working smart, it wouldn't matter if there were malay rights at all. cuz regardless of race, we'd all be successful, mature and resourceful adults that can use our energy towards providing a better future for ourselves and our children.

[sabishii]

it's the attitude. if we can look beyond the malay rights thing and instead just keep working hard and working smart, it wouldn't matter if there were malay rights at all. cuz regardless of race, we'd all be successful, mature and resourceful adults that can use our energy towards providing a better future for ourselves and our children.

A well ellaborated thought, but the malay rights issue is not only about the special priveleges they have in business. it's about political powers as well, chinese has long been neglecting their role in their political power. isn't it sad when you can't have a say on the way you wish your country to be heading? and what's the point living in a place where you know deep inside that there would be more and more discriminative laws laid upon your offsprings? i perceive the malay rights issue as more of a political chess piece, it's used to show who's the boss and who's not. yes, you will do well if you find ways around the system, no doubts on that. but surely some day someone would find a way to make it harder and harder for you to do so. too late to regret then i guess.

guess we all know that abolishment of malay rights is a very very very far target. there will definitely be oppositions. the people's fear would then be used as a tool by various groups of interest. so i don't have any intention to have it abolished, but rather hope that a cap be set upon it. if you haven't already noticed, the world is never fair. it's not always true that when you "just keep working hard and working smart" and you would bcome a millionare the next day. placing a limit on the malay rights would be a viable way for other underpriveledges groups have a go on the economic pie. isn't that the whole purpose of introducing this malay rights /NEP thing? I do see the urgency of introducing it when it was first introduced twenty years ago, but i don't really see it as a helpful project in terms of it's objective and the actual results.

but anyways, it's just mere prostulations. guess that's why this thread is classified as 'senseless debates'. ha