Medicine in Australia - Difference between A-level and SAM

[hazleen]

hy there..just wanna greet all medic students around the malaysia..hmm.. i got some question...im doin the ausmat new zealand programme now in INTEC..but most of my fwen are oin their a level under ALM..which stands for A level medicine...how ausmat differ than ALM or other programme..?is Ausmat really tough?my senior sid that i need to got at least 98 out of 100 to fly to new zealand..how to manage our time schedule...?hmm..it is not easy to become a doctor..right? :wink:

Moderator Note: Title changed to better reflect the thread's nature.

[taurus]

Hi...guess i m on the same boat with u there... :wink: i juz came 2 INTEC for the second intake n is currently doing the AUSMAT programme bound for Medic in Australia...but i m feeling a bit lost now n the pressure is HUGE...as i heard that the TER we hv 2 get 2 qualify 4 universities in Australia is at least 98 out of 100...wow...

[Zeroth]

actually, even TER 98 may not secure a place.

[shadows]

I've always thought that the score you need is dependent on the results of the students that are applying to get into medicine. So if you happen to be in a year where more good students want to do medicine, then it'll probably be harder to get in.

I personally don't think you should necessarily think about what score you'll need to get into medicine. Just think about how you can do your best.

[Patrick]

I'm in KMB doing IB (International Baccalaureate) and according to the seniors and teachers there, I'll have to get at least 40 out of 42 points in every semester to portray consistency. (UK medical school....so competitive, sigh...)

I guess all scholarship holders are under pressure. So, just be smart and read up! Huhuhu...

[DecentMerson]

there's an SIG abt medicine...

[zell_ll]

At kyuem, for medic student we're doing a-level and must take 3 subject+1 AS subject.......university usualy require AAB or AAA...chemistry is a must has subject....for oxbridge, u will need 4 subject.....also must do good PS and perform well in interview...

[hazleen]

hmmm...thats true..i'll try my best to get 99.99..hehe..but...in ausmat..its not compulsory for medic student to study bio...in year 12

[Zeroth]

Although it is not compulsory, a bio background will strongly help you in your first year.

[princess]

well, why is it not compulsory for medic students to study bio in their pre-u? my friend is studying medic in the local u...she was a physic student in matriks and she scored a cgpa 4.00.
do u think she can cope on without pre-u biology background ? is it tough for her to study medic?

[Zeroth]

It depends on her, whether she's hardworking or not. Lecturers mostly assume that you know many things, so its better that you know them first.

[pandaboy]

Thread moved to SIG Medicine.

Hazleen - I don?t know if English is a subject in the Ausmat scheme, but if it is perhaps you?d better start polishing your English as I?m sure your standard, judging by your post, won?t help you get that coveted 98%. No offence meant, but I?m sure you appreciate the importance of communication, especially if you intend to study medicine.
By the way, I can?t stand some of those terms which scholarship holders are so fond of, for example, ?to fly? :) purely because they aren?t strictly correct in the context they?re used!

[youngyew]

Hazleen - I don?t know if English is a subject in the Ausmat scheme, but if it is perhaps you?d better start polishing your English as I?m sure your standard, judging by your post, won?t help you get that coveted 98%. No offence meant, but I?m sure you appreciate the importance of communication, especially if you intend to study medicine.
By the way, I can?t stand some of those terms which scholarship holders are so fond of, for example, ?to fly? :) purely because they aren?t strictly correct in the context they?re used!
I recommend you to register as a member in ReCom, Mr. Guest. It's been really irksome for many people to see more and more Mr. Guest posting anonymously in medicine SIG recently. If everyone posts anonymously, it makes ReCom nothing different from MIRC.

First of all, I don't see any error in the usage of the word "fly to New Zealand". "Fly to" can be used in the context of "travelling by airplane", which in this is correctly used. In this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/hearafrica05/story/0,15756,1488358,00.html), the newspaper named the article shamelessly "Blair may fly to US to save Africa plans". If a distinguished newspaper can use "fly to" in this context, why then is it wrong for Hazleen and others to use "fly to" in the context of going overseas via airplane? As how AirAsia put it, "now everyone can fly!" and this catchword is grammatically correct.

I would like to answer the "biology vs. maths" part. I am a medical student in Australia now, and I took specialist maths instead of biology when I did SAM in INTEC. When I first enrolled in University, it's indeed true that those biology students faced less difficulty coming to face biological concepts and theories. Certainly, I had to learn more compared to them. However, as we moved on, three to four months later, we found that we are already on par with each other. As it turned out, among JPA scholars in my university, the top 3 scorers in the tests turned out to be those who didn't do biology in year 12. As the new semester is going to commence, I am confident that we are no more different from each other, biology or non-biology student. It's like a fresh journey of learning, we all start anew.

So between biology and specialist maths, my advice would be go for the subject that you think you will score better in.

p/s: zeroth and I have both written quite some number of posts in ReCom about doing medicine in Australia. So please use the search function, search for "youngyew" or "zeroth" for author and "medicine" for keyword.

Youngyew -

Thank you for your suggestion. I may or may not take it up, however.

I do not dispute the fact that it is GRAMMATICALLY correct. What I take issue with is the fact that it is CONTEXTUALLY inappropriate. I do not know if you are a scholar, but the meaning of the term as is used by scholars is 'to gain admission to a (foreign) university', which of course is not one of the accepted meanings of the word.
Thank you for your efforts anyway, but I am sorry they are wasted on me, as I am sufficiently proficient in the English language not to need lessons.

By the way - the Guardian used to be the laughing stock of the British press because of the mistakes, usually typographical, but sometimes grammatical, which used to appear in its articles :D
Just for your information.

[youngyew]

Youngyew -

Thank you for your suggestion. I may or may not take it up, however.

I do not dispute the fact that it is GRAMMATICALLY correct. What I take issue with is the fact that it is CONTEXTUALLY inappropriate. I do not know if you are a scholar, but the meaning of the term as is used by scholars is 'to gain admission to a (foreign) university', which of course is not one of the accepted meanings of the word.
Thank you for your efforts anyway, but I am sorry they are wasted on me, as I am sufficiently proficient in the English language not to need lessons.

By the way - the Guardian used to be the laughing stock of the British press because of the mistakes, usually typographical, but sometimes grammatical, which used to appear in its articles :D
Just for your information.
Thanks for your clarification. However, I think you must have skipped my first paragraph and read the second paragraph straightaway, Mr. Guest. Since you visit ReCom so frequently (2 times in a day), please register as a member. It would help establish a bit of credibility.

To begin with, I don't think my english is very weak either, but I am still willing to take any lesson. I know neither about the point of this entirely pedantic discussion nor its relevance to this thread, but I will put forward my point anyway.

I am a scholar, and it's indeed true that scholars always use "fly to" to imply getting admitted to a foreign university. However, what's wrong with using the term in term of its implication? What I mean is, of course "fly to" doesn't mean "gaining admission to a foreign university"; nevertheless, I believe "fly to" used in this context means "travelling via air", and hence implying "gaining admission to a foreign university". And with this reason, I shall maintain the appropriateness of this term.

Just another example of implied language:
Student A: "So how was your application of US Visa?"
Student B: "Sigh... I won't get to fly."

In this case, "won't get to fly" means "won't travel via airplane", but of course it's also implied at the same time that he's unable to obtain an US visa.

I might have wasted my time again, since you see me as a teacher and you don't need a lesson. I am not a teacher, and I am here to share my opinion. Hope that you do too. :) Please tell me if I am wrong again.

I'm not particularly worried about credibility - I would like to think that the quality of my posts speaks for itself. Plus I like anonymity :)

You ask what the implications are regarding an apparently minor mistake. In the big scheme of things, not much. I am however, as you have rightly noticed, a pedant, and I will make no apologies for it. Nevertheless, after having marked a few hundred essays, I have come to the conclusion that it is minor infractions of this kind, and the propagation of their so-called 'correctness', that is one of the factors hampering efforts towards high-level mastery of the language. Interestingly, they are usually brought-about by people who use English as a foreign language (I've seen a few other bizarre examples in European countries too).
The implied meaning is clear, no doubt about it, but whether it is a universally-accepted, appropriate usage of the word is a different kettle of fish. To put it bluntly, this is just another example of Manglish. Of course, if ever this usage enters the OED, I will be perfectly happy to concede the argument.

By the way - I do not doubt in any way the veracity of the fact that scholars use the word 'fly' in this context, as I am very well acquainted with what goes on in those circles.

unnecessary fuss :P

[meselsohnstahl]

i guess this post should be related to medicine new zealand :-D My english is not so great, so just bear with me, k??!!

anyway, i went online to learn more bout medicine in new zealand and i found out a few facts which would make me think twice bout going to new zealand for medicine!!

1. there are only two universities in new zealand which offers a place for medicine for overseas students(i'm not sure bout locals..too lazy to look into other unis..:-D) and they are otago and auckland

2. when u're accepted into the uni, u're not guaranteed a place for medicine.. u enter the first year life sciences/something sciences first. and this is when u will have to compete with students from all over the world to get into the medical programme which starts in your second year of uni.... this is the same for courses like pharmacy and physiotherapy..(if not mistaken la..:-D)

3. there are only 10 places in each uni (10 in otago and 10 in auckland) for international students for entry into the medical programme in the second year..

My question is, since JPA offers quite a number of places for medicine in new zealand, wont it be risky for the kids to actually spend a year in new zealand only to not be able to get into the u, and finally having to start the programm e all over again..

My mum has actually brought the matter forward to the JPA officer and his reply was if they dont get into the medical programme, we'll just have to send them to russia, india, indonesia or anywhere cheaper la.... But its really unfair... they should have just given more offers for twinning programmes (such as with PMC and IMU)... it is cheaper for JPA (my dad calculated that NZ should cost close to 800 000 ringgit cause its a six-year programme) and the students are guaranteed a place once they're accepted by the uni....

just my thoughts...
:-D

[Zeroth]

The number of JPA scholars in IMU is already rather high, sending more there would impair the chances of other non-scholar students to study the field. [/quote]

[meselsohnstahl]

yes but JPA is wasting the time of young kids and also wasting their own money by sending their students to a country which does not really confirm them a plce in the programme upon entry to uni..

[bush]

That is why do A-levels....scoring 4As or 3 As is much easier than getting a TER of 98 and maintaining a consistent average throughout the course.

[day_dreamer]

visited uni of melbourne last november..SUPERB is the word.
anyone know any scholarships that can lead me to the uni's medic faculty ?

[bush]

visited uni of melbourne last november..SUPERB is the word.
anyone know any scholarships that can lead me to the uni's medic faculty ?

to be very frank with you.....I don't think there is any.

What led me to say something like that?
Melbourne is an Australian university, which means it charges high fees for whatever course an international is enrolled in. Which means money is very much in their minds. Therefore expecting them to grant you money is very unlikely

If the most generous country(singapore) gives out only a few scholarships for medicine to non-sigaporeans, what can be said about Australian institutions?

Even if there are scholarships available, it would be scarce and the figure too insignificant to relief your parents burden.

your best bet is still JPA or some corporate bodies which offer scholarships with medicine as one of the sponsored courses.

[youngyew]

visited uni of melbourne last november..SUPERB is the word.
anyone know any scholarships that can lead me to the uni's medic faculty ?

to be very frank with you.....I don't think there is any.

What led me to say something like that?
Melbourne is an Australian university, which means it charges high fees for whatever course an international is enrolled in. Which means money is very much in their minds. Therefore expecting them to grant you money is very unlikely

If the most generous country(singapore) gives out only a few scholarships for medicine to non-sigaporeans, what can be said about Australian institutions?

Even if there are scholarships available, it would be scarce and the figure too insignificant to relief your parents burden.

your best bet is still JPA or some corporate bodies which offer scholarships with medicine as one of the sponsored courses.
I am doing second year here. And ya, there isn't any financial aid for international medical student in Uni of Melbourne. Even for local students there is hardly any financial aid, not to mention international students.

[day_dreamer]

boy ohhh boy,

hope dashed. :cry:

[bush]

boy ohhh boy,

hope dashed. :cry:

try JPA or others...

if you have an uncle, aunty or some relatives, ask them to adopt you, so once you become an Australian PR, you pay lower fees.......

[day_dreamer]

yeah, got to work hard.... :cry:
JPA !! .......don't leave me alone !!!!!

[Zeroth]

yes but JPA is wasting the time of young kids and also wasting their own money by sending their students to a country which does not really confirm them a plce in the programme upon entry to uni..

There isnt one place that would guarranty you a place. Even in IMU or other local institutions.

If the students expect the government to spoon feed them on everything, including applications and all the other things, it would not serve well to instill the sense of independance among its students.

On the other hand, i think JPA should send less students to australia or UK for courses like medicine. There's roughly 300 students sent to australia for medicine in my batch i think, and there's only like 100 place or so available for us. So, most of us end up in IMU.

Also, our allowances are really underfunded, so sending less students would be able to channel more funds towards our allowance.. we can barely survive with what we have now..

I know you will all kill me for saying this, but it is the reality.

[meselsohnstahl]

yes but JPA is wasting the time of young kids and also wasting their own money by sending their students to a country which does not really confirm them a plce in the programme upon entry to uni..

There isnt one place that would guarranty you a place. Even in IMU or other local institutions.

If the students expect the government to spoon feed them on everything, including applications and all the other things, it would not serve well to instill the sense of independance among its students.

On the other hand, i think JPA should send less students to australia or UK for courses like medicine. There's roughly 300 students sent to australia for medicine in my batch i think, and there's only like 100 place or so available for us. So, most of us end up in IMU.

Also, our allowances are really underfunded, so sending less students would be able to channel more funds towards our allowance.. we can barely survive with what we have now..

I know you will all kill me for saying this, but it is the reality.

i think u sorta didnt understand what i as trying to say.. for new zealand, u are actually given a place in the university its just that ur place for medicine is not confirmed... u'll need to do health sciences first year and compete for a place in medicine for the second year.. there is a quota of 10 ppl for each of the two unis(otago and auckland..)...

in australia, tho its competitive at least once u get a place, u'll be able to finish ur degree as long as u dont fail any of the years.(i think...)...

in nz, just cause u do really well,it doesnt mean that u'll be able to do medicine... u have to make sure u stay the tope ten amongst the international students..

i think u sorta didnt understand what i as trying to say.. for new zealand, u are actually given a place in the university its just that ur place for medicine is not confirmed... u'll need to do health sciences first year and compete for a place in medicine for the second year.. there is a quota of 10 ppl for each of the two unis(otago and auckland..)...


Hrmm, i guess i misunderstood you, sorry.

Anyway, knowing the fact that you might not get to go, why apply in the first place?

Anyone you know offered a place to new zealand? I personally don't know any at the moment.

[meselsohnstahl]

well, i know of a girl who's in intec doing ausmat to go to nz.. but she'll only be going next yr.. dont know if its true, but itg would be the first time jpa will be sending any student to nz for medicine.. correct me if im wrong...

[jingguo]

well, jpa did send some students to do medicine in NZ. it started in the batch of AUSMAT 16 (spm 2003) of the Intec sholars and continued on for AUSMAT 17(i.e. spm 2004). but from AUSMAT 18 (spm 2005) onwards, they no longer send students there.

for ausmat 16 only one student got the offer to do medicine in uni of auckland. while in ausmat 17 7 of them got to do medicine in uni of otago and 2 from intec to do medicine in uni of auckland. another from kolej mara banting (i tink) got to go as well.. so all in all there's 10 jpa scholars (for spm 2004) who got to go to NZ to do medic.

these jpa scholars gains such entrance through special admission. the unis have special arrangements with jpa to allow certain number of student to go to their uni and do medic. these students underwent interviews prior to their admission into the health sciences faculty. upon offer to do medicine in the respective unis the students are only required to score a minimum marks stipulated by the deans and they would be able to continue on to do medicine second year. the ywould not have to go through anymore selection processes like UMAT, interviews to gain admission.

[nurulanne]

jpa did send their scholars for medic in NZ for SPM 2005 batch...we're currently doing our a level in taylors college in our last sem...there are only 12 of us...

[jingguo]

jpa did send their scholars for medic in NZ for SPM 2005 batch...we're currently doing our a level in taylors college in our last sem...there are only 12 of us...

good luck for the interview!!!