THES Top 200 World University Ranking

[bp_ffei]

THES (http://www.thes.co.uk/) (Times Higher Education Supplement) Top 200 World University Ranking will be out on Monday. But you can see the ranking already if you visit JeffOoi's blog (http://www.jeffooi.com/) or Lim Kit Siang's blog (http://limkitsiang.blogspot.com/). Here's the ranking list (http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/THES-RANKS2005.pdf) (you'll need Adobe Reader to see it).

Well well well, UM was so proud of itself when it was ranked #89 in the world last year. USM was also in the list, at #111. Guess where are they now? See it for yourself.

We are losing out to our neighbour countries. National University of Singapore is #22, Nanyang Technological University (Singapore) is #48 and Chulalongkorn University (Thailand), which wasn't in the list last year, is now #121.

What are your views on this? Does the ranking reflect a worsening education standard/system in Malaysia?

The ReCom forum for the 2004 THES ranking: Here (http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1478&highlight=thes)

[bush]

try this,

http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/

very good write ups on the education system.

[balderdash]

What are your views on this? Does the ranking reflect a worsening education standard/system in Malaysia?


You can see it from two points of view - either UM has REALLY been sliding down-down-down - or they have been complacent while other universities have been improving themselves.

Either way, it's just sad. It's just sad to hear real life stories about local public unis about 'special' tutorials, nasty student government politics, low command of English (gah don't start me on how English is the colonial language and that we shouldn't idealise these language. It's the language you need to get by in the world, so just learn it!), lousy attitudes from students and lecturers alike -- I guess these things weren't reflected in the survey.

And it'd better not be.

Again, there are two things we can do - sit back and watch - or actually get involved in the education scene. Then again, can we do the latter?

=disgruntled=

[zAiTsEv]

Fire the VC! :twisted:

[vseehua]

it probably have something to do with UM refusing to let (i forgot the name prof) go and join the UN for a research programme...and the political involvement within the ranks...

too bad for malaysia in general...

[jonnyl]

UM should not blow trumpets and hang banners anymore this time, like they did last year... It should put aside it's laurels last year and strive to improve performance.

[DecentMerson]

UM should not blow trumpets and hang banners anymore this time, like they did last year... It should put aside it's laurels last year and strive to improve performance.

can't believe that they did that last year...

[Vchin]

UM should not blow trumpets and hang banners anymore this time, like they did last year... It should put aside it's laurels last year and strive to improve performance.

yaya..my friend entering UM this year, saw this scene..banners writing we're in top 100..kind of that..Now they should be ashamed of it..

[Europa]

UM should not blow trumpets and hang banners anymore this time, like they did last year... It should put aside it's laurels last year and strive to improve performance.
I doubt it. Just look in the Star Education yesterday. A VC is still proud to say "We're top 50 in Humanities". Who wants to bet that they won't put that on this year's banners?

[bp_ffei]

try this,

http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/

very good write ups on the education system.

Thanks for the website bush! It was an interesting read.

Well, if you all didn't already know, UM ("6th most international university"!)and USM were ranked quite high for percentage of international faculty members and students, even higher than Singapore universities. Many people have guessed that they had considered the Chinese and Indians from Malaysia as foreigners. Whatever it is, they have rectified these incorrect statistics this time round.

IMO, I think Malaysian universities could use some foreign students to make it more "global". They could probably introduce some healthy competition into the universities as well. I'm sure there are students abroad who might want to study in Malaysia. One problem now is, Malaysian universities don't even want to accept students with A-level qualifications...

I doubt it. Just look in the Star Education yesterday. A VC is still proud to say "We're top 50 in Humanities". Who wants to bet that they won't put that on this year's banners?

Oh dear... Didn't he hear that the PM is not very happy already? Kudos to UM for being in Humanities top 50... Hopefully UM can be in overall top 50... someday...

[balderdash]

IMO, I think Malaysian universities could use some foreign students to make it more "global". They could probably introduce some healthy competition into the universities as well. I'm sure there are students abroad who might want to study in Malaysia. One problem now is, Malaysian universities don't even want to accept students with A-level qualifications...


While I agree wholeheartedly about having more foreign students in the local public unis - apart from the problems of qualifications, what about the very pertinent issue of language? Malay is still being used as the language of medium in a lot of courses if I am not mistaken and if they were to attempt to attract more foreign students, they'd have to look into that department.

Then again, judging from what the Ministry of Education has been doing, I bet they are going to come up with something rash and unplanned AGAIN. Think the switch to English in pri/sec syllabus, the use of abacus when we were in primary school, etc....

[bush]

The universities should settle our domestic problems first before thinking big....

Issues like limited places for certain courses, entry standards, lecturing quality, medium of instruction etc........

[kintaro_kun]

in lim kit siang's blog, he said "any uni in australia is better than the top uni in m'sia". this is probably the case since you find so many unis with origin of australia above our country's.

on one hand the government is trying to woo foreign students to study in m'sia while on the other hand they say that the criterias "international faculty" and " international students" are irrelevant to m'sia, huh??? :? so this is how our unis are preparing for globalisation of the education industry, by categorising international faculty and students as "irrelevant".

i think the gov will do anything to push up UM's ranking next year, at least for the short term, as typical m'sians are short sighted, by pouring billions of ringgit of research funds, instead of investing for longer term developments like staff, facilities, quality, services, sustainabity etc...

[bush]

in lim kit siang's blog, he said "any uni in australia is better than the top uni in m'sia". this is probably the case since you find so many unis with origin of australia above our country's.

on one hand the government is trying to woo foreign students to study in m'sia while on the other hand they say that the criterias "international faculty" and " international students" are irrelevant to m'sia, huh??? :? so this is how our unis are preparing for globalisation of the education industry, by categorising international faculty and students as "irrelevant".

i think the gov will do anything to push up UM's ranking next year, at least for the short term, as typical m'sians are short sighted, by pouring billions of ringgit of research funds, instead of investing for longer term developments like staff, facilities, quality, services, sustainabity etc...

anything can happen, especially when we have numerous baduts and clowns running the country........

[kintaro_kun]

this is a comment made by a petronas scholarship scholar in regard to the rankings i found in LKS's blog too:

###########################################

There are 3 issues here that i see pertinent :

1. The ranking is not meant to assess the 'quality of education' in Malaysia/Ghana/Jerai. This is my opinion and i didn't get this from any factbook or statistics.And honestly, i think all of you actually quietly agree with me and just take this opportunity to bash Malays and Govt and UM etc etc. come one, open your eyes!!KCL at no 73?Warwick at 77??SOAS at 103??wutefreak?Bath at 130??Sorbonne at 121??Leiden at 138??Georgetown at 159?? Do you see where i'm getting at?now, UM at 169 doesn't seem that bad anymore, does it?this is not to say the ranking is inaccurate, but to say that it IS accurate according to criteria that THES sets. How flimsy could a ranking be?

2. If u really argue that we could see THES at least as a guideline to see how Universiti Melayu fares, then i would say it's doing really good as oppose to Universiti Cina seperti UTAR,UNITAR, TARC, Nilai, Taylor's, Sunway, KDU etc etc. which are not even near the list. See, i told you, Melayu boleh.

3. Kalau kau nak undi DAP, undilah. Sampai seribu tahun lagilah kalau nak menang GE sebab hampa nih tak sedaq Malaysia nih is so much bigger than limkitsiang.blogspot.com and jeffooi.com. Comfort zone for Govt bashing hiding under anonymous names and delusionally thinking you're engaging in intellectual discourses. BTW, aku nih melayu study kat university of sydney(no. 3 under sponsorship petronas.Sure sedap and puas bash aku kan?
Faiz Fazil | 10.30.05 - 8:38 am | #

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the universiti melayu and universiti cina thing is really amusing :lol: .

[ToietMoi]

I was about to point out the 1st point of Faiz Fazil.
A ranking without detailed criteria doesn't make any sense at all. I tried to click on a link at jeefrOoi's blog to figure out the detailed criteria of this ranking but it seems to be so vague... Not that I'm questioning the method of the ranking listing,just that a ranking is subjective, and one has to consider all the "subjectivities" having role in it. No use in accepting everything raw as there are. If someone finds a link towards the ranking criteria, please do tell me.

[byzhanii_bogn]

now, i do seriously think the "university cina" something really offensive here... what has that to do with universiti melayu and universiti cina? shit man, UM sliding down the list, what the heck? i'm still aiming for it. i give it a damn where singapore ranks, it's not our business. and i do seriously think those who bash the sliding of UM being inconsiderate. they're not even in the education field. the ones should be feeling something are those IN the unis and those still studying. who cares if it has slide down the list? take a look of the unis in US, they don't rank their unis, it's the foreigners who ranked them. the ivy league and stuff, they're there because they're OLD and prestigous. it's the same as UM. now stop bashing UM because it's our most prestigous uni. if u're not happy with it, go somewhere else.

that's all. i'm sad UM slipped. but it's nothing we can do. and i do think being 169 is okay, at least she still made it in the list.

[Europa]

Hmm, I was doing some reading up on both sides of the whole issue and found some interesting things to note. http://www.stanford.edu/dept/pres-provost/president/speeches/961206gcfallow.html Although it is not directly linked to the THES survey, some points that was raised in this letter is relevant to the THES rankings.

For starters, the jump up and down the rankings couldn't be attributed to recent changes in the University's structure, but to changes in the 'formulae' that was used in assessing the institutions. So, it could either mean that THES is seriously biased towards our local institutions (even after polling our local academia) or UM's quality has been substandard for some time now and the changes in the assessment procedure more accurately depicts the actual situation, or the new assessment criteria is worse than the 2004’s one.

Since the THES assessments are judged (and acknowledged) not to be extremely precise, I suppose that one way was to look at the rankings by grouping the Universities into groups of 25 or 50 since it is difficult to rate the institutions vis a vis directly against each other.

Thus, last year only UM made it into the top 100 last year while our neighbour’s two premier institutions made it into the top 50 (which would suggest that NUS and NTU outclassed UM and U?Ms. But this time round, we slipped all the way to top 200 while NUS and NTU remained in the same bracket after the adjustments made by THES? And the VC can still say there is nothing to worry about?

now, i do seriously think the "university cina" something really offensive here... what has that to do with universiti melayu and universiti cina? shit man, UM sliding down the list, what the heck? i'm still aiming for it. i give it a damn where singapore ranks, it's not our business. and i do seriously think those who bash the sliding of UM being inconsiderate. they're not even in the education field. the ones should be feeling something are those IN the unis and those still studying. who cares if it has slide down the list? take a look of the unis in US, they don't rank their unis, it's the foreigners who ranked them. the ivy league and stuff, they're there because they're OLD and prestigous. it's the same as UM. now stop bashing UM because it's our most prestigous uni. if u're not happy with it, go somewhere else.

that's all. i'm sad UM slipped. but it's nothing we can do. and i do think being 169 is okay, at least she still made it in the list.
The Uni Cina and Uni Melayu thing really stinks of racism when its supposed to be Uni M'sia? :roll:

Well, you don't give a damm where the S'pore Unis are which is not a problem for you individually. But, when it is our vision for our country to stand tall and be counted among developed nations, this would have to be our business! Plus, there's always possible bias when you're a student there isn't it? People here bash UM simply because it is supposedly the BEST Uni in M'sia (the oldest and most prestigious too!), and it fared worse than the Unis of Thailand and S'pore? Plus, there are Uni rankings in the US too, but THES is more popular somehow. I thought we're aiming to be simply the best among them and not just to be glad that it barely made the list? The complacency displayed is saddening. :(

[zAiTsEv]

this is a comment made by a petronas scholarship scholar in regard to the rankings i found in LKS's blog too:

###########################################

There are 3 issues here that i see pertinent :

1. The ranking is not meant to assess the 'quality of education' in Malaysia/Ghana/Jerai. This is my opinion and i didn't get this from any factbook or statistics.And honestly, i think all of you actually quietly agree with me and just take this opportunity to bash Malays and Govt and UM etc etc. come one, open your eyes!!KCL at no 73?Warwick at 77??SOAS at 103??wutefreak?Bath at 130??Sorbonne at 121??Leiden at 138??Georgetown at 159?? Do you see where i'm getting at?now, UM at 169 doesn't seem that bad anymore, does it?this is not to say the ranking is inaccurate, but to say that it IS accurate according to criteria that THES sets. How flimsy could a ranking be?

2. If u really argue that we could see THES at least as a guideline to see how Universiti Melayu fares, then i would say it's doing really good as oppose to Universiti Cina seperti UTAR,UNITAR, TARC, Nilai, Taylor's, Sunway, KDU etc etc. which are not even near the list. See, i told you, Melayu boleh.

3. Kalau kau nak undi DAP, undilah. Sampai seribu tahun lagilah kalau nak menang GE sebab hampa nih tak sedaq Malaysia nih is so much bigger than limkitsiang.blogspot.com and jeffooi.com. Comfort zone for Govt bashing hiding under anonymous names and delusionally thinking you're engaging in intellectual discourses. BTW, aku nih melayu study kat university of sydney(no. 3 under sponsorship petronas.Sure sedap and puas bash aku kan?
Faiz Fazil | 10.30.05 - 8:38 am | #

###########################################

the universiti melayu and universiti cina thing is really amusing :lol: .

Faiz Fazil is just a plain asshole.

[Schye]

zAiTsEv, no personal attack please.

I believe that every ranking systems have their own formulas and hence maybe biased. However, we should know that they dont simply comeout with any formula. The same goes to S&P or Moody's other than they can prove their system with records/statistics while its hard to evaluate the "outcome/product" of a university.

After all this is just for reference and dont take it too serious. We cant respond to every ranking published and bash or congrat UM. The problem now should be solving the problem we face now ... Dont tell me that we dont know UM is not as good as other universities without this ranking.

[DecentMerson]

zAiTsEv, no personal attack please.

I believe that every ranking systems have their own formulas and hence maybe biased. However, we should know that they dont simply comeout with any formula. The same goes to S&P or Moody's other than they can prove their system with records/statistics while its hard to evaluate the "outcome/product" of a university.

After all this is just for reference and dont take it too serious. We cant respond to every ranking published and bash or congrat UM. The problem now should be solving the problem we face now ... Dont tell me that we dont know UM is not as good as other universities without this ranking.

we do know that UM is not as good as many other unis without this ranking... but those ppl who should know are turning a blind eye towards it... and with this ranking, we know another thing, that either UM is really losing ground, or other unis are improving faster than UM is...

like the University Cina and University Melayu argument (if u consider that as one), i'm pretty sure that if all the unis are considered, they are improving, or at least not falling as much as UM is... and who says which Uni is University Melayu, and which is not... and UM was a school with long tradition... and all, if all he can say is to compare with other private Unis on fair grounds..., it's not only no argument, but it's actually putting UM on shame...

and what do byzhanii_bogn mean when u say that "i give it a damn where singapore ranks, it's not our business"...

if we want to be better, we have to know our 'rivals'.... so, it is our business to know what others ranking are... and how do they maintain it... and why we are slipping... even more so, if our government really want to make Malaysia and international education hub...

and regarding " take a look of the unis in US, they don't rank their unis", u are wrong.... they do rank their Unis every year...by several publishers... like US News and World Report... and other mags...

[el_empty]

and i do seriously think those who bash the sliding of UM being inconsiderate. they're not even in the education field. the ones should be feeling something are those IN the unis and those still studying. who cares if it has slide down the list? ...

... now stop bashing UM because it's our most prestigous uni. if u're not happy with it, go somewhere else.


reminds me of when badruddin asked the chinese malaysians to return to china if they didn't like the way things are run in malaysia.

[topdog]

i suggest that we forget the thes because it's just a magazine, people! you don't measure a university's worth by what a magazine says.

having said that, anyone who thinks that there's nothing wrong with malaysian universities is simply in denial. BUT instead of harping on some uk magazine ranking, why don't we list what we think can be improved about msian universities? i have never studied in a msian public university (not for a degree anyway) so i've never experienced student life in a local university firsthand, but i'm not discounting becoming an academic at a local uni one day, so i'd like to know the views of people who are actually in or have gone through the system.

very broadly, here's what i think are some of the major weaknesses of msian universities.
1. Lack of intellectual freedom
2. Limited research activity
3. Government/politicians getting in the way too often
4. Lousy student life

[chenchow]

In response to this issue, I fully agree with what topdog has mentioned. The ranking is not a big deal. It is just from a magazine. However, our IPTAs do have a lot of places that need improvements, and we can play a role in helping that.

Before going further, I think for those who are criticizing UM, I would want to invite you to take a small step back and look at the criteria of the ranking.

For this year, it is :-
Peer Review 40%
Recruiters Review 10%
International Faculty 5%
International Students 5%
Student:Faculty Ratio 20%
Citations Per Faculty 20%

If I don't remember wrongly (fellow ReComers, please confirm this), the criteria for last year, was Peer Review 50%, and there is no component for recruiters review.

For this year, our ranking as per each category (ranked from all the top 200 universities) is:-
Peer Review :- 77th ranking (33/100 points)

Recruiters Review :- 138th ranking (0/100 points) (An interesting note:- 63 out of 200 universities, including University Malaya, Seoul National University, UC San Diego, UC San Francisco, U Wisconsin, Adelaide, Auckland, Zurich, U Washington, Osaka, La Trobe etc get 0 point in this category.

International Faculty :- 126th ranking (12/100 points)
International Students :- 167th ranking (7/100 points)
Student:Faculty Ratio:- 148th ranking (8/100 points)
Citation Per Faculty:- 178th ranking (1/100 points)


Personally, I think the portion on international faculty, international students and student:faculty ratio is not too important. I would choose not to look into that portion.

In terms of peer review, UM is not doing fantastic, but within the eyes of peer institution, UM does rank within the top 100 universities in the world.

In terms of recruiters ranking, I do think that it is something of serious concern. Why do UM gets 0 point in this portion. There could be several reasons. Recruiters interviewed were not based in Malaysia, and hence, they may not have come across any or very few UM Graduates. Or it could mean that UM Graduates have failed to impress the companies. And one thing to note would be that even if let say THES survey from Intel, and Intel operate in Malaysia and have hired UM Graduates. The person that they interview would most likely not based in Malaysia, and most likely that person may not have interviewed any Malaysian. Anyway, I hope that UM would double or triple its efforts in training its graduates.

And another portion of concern, would be citation per faculty. It is something that we really need to work a lot on.

That's my take on this issue. What do fellow ReComers think?

[Zeroth]

2. If u really argue that we could see THES at least as a guideline to see how Universiti Melayu fares, then i would say it's doing really good as oppose to Universiti Cina seperti UTAR,UNITAR, TARC, Nilai, Taylor's, Sunway, KDU etc etc. which are not even near the list. See, i told you, Melayu boleh.


FYI of faiz, (i think i know him and i might be going to his house tonight.. haha!) UTAR and UNITAR is not supported by the government as much as UM. In fact, i think it is not supported at all..

And FYI again, Nilai is an international Uni, not University Cina. And, Taylor's, KDU, etc etc is not UNI, not even in the criteria.

If you think UM is really that good, why are you in Sydney U? (i think you told me the reason.. haha)

By the way byzhanii_bogn, that's the exact mindset that would put the country behind. We need to be competitive, we need to strive. We have to look at our weeknesses and do the best. There no good in being ignorant and let ourselves fall behind. That is why we have to care about these things, and use this as a motivation to drive ourselves to improve.

[khor_albert]

This thread finally triggers me to post.

Well, I can't help agreeing more with what Zeroth said. KDU and Taylor's are COLLEGES, not unis. How can they even be ranked? Please do your homework before posting.

And please do not segregate universities of "Cina" and "Melayu" as if the problem of segregation is not serious enough...there are a lot of Chinese in UM and likewise a lot of Malays in so-called "Universiti Cina"...That statement doesnt clearly portray your interest for national unity, which is envisioned by our country leaders.

I still personally think that UM holds some credibility no matter what the ranking states. However, we need to change our mindset and our age-old method of doing things in order to stay competitive. I am surprised when I found out UM actually become so proud last year when they got ranked no.89. In fact, they should not let off their guard and continue to strive for excellence. UM VC's statement after the slip in ranking does not help. Rather than saying, "We realise our mistakes and will take appropriate steps to make sure we will improve", he put UM's complacency to a more dangerous level when he claimed that "there's nothing to be worried about". Although he may have the noble cause of keeping the people calm, I think the former statement can do a much better job.

Perhaps a UM or USM student can actually explain the condition. Do they really experience the drop in university governance?

[DecentMerson]

Perhaps a UM or USM student can actually explain the condition. Do they really experience the drop in university governance?

we have to keep in mind that: although the rankings of UM and/or USM have dropped, the students might not experience a drop in the university administration because it might be the university is just performing as 'good' as before, or even improving, but at a relatively slower rate than its peers... and hence, the fall in ranking...

[topdog]

i really wish that we can stop referring to the THES rankings in discussions about UM. whether um falls or rises frankly speaking does not matter. any attempt to stratify institutions as diverse as universities is bound to be flawed anyway (and these are universities in different countries!!) based on the ranking criteria provided by chenchow, i would say the methodology employed by THES is truly laughable (with the possible exception of citations per faculty). malaysians who obsess over the ranking for its own sake might want to read this letter critical of the USNWR college rankings (http://www.stanford.edu/dept/pres-provost/president/speeches/961206gcfallow.html). it is US-specific and almost a decade old, but i think the criticisms are still valid and can be applied to university rankings in general...

[kevinkhoo1986]

UM tetap cemerlang, bukan universiti corot - Naib Canselor

KUALA LUMPUR 31 Okt. - Universiti Malaya (UM) bukan universiti corot, ia tetap cemerlang, kata Naib Canselor UM, Prof. Datuk Dr. Hashim Yaacob mempertahankan menara gadingnya hari ini.

Malah, pentadbiran UM menegaskan, prestasi akademik universiti tertua itu lebih baik tahun ini berbanding tahun lalu.

Beliau mempertahankan pencapaian itu walaupun laporan The Times Higher Education (THE), London menunjukkan kedudukan UM merudum dari tangga 89 ke tangga 169.

Dr. Hashim berkata, berdasarkan laporan terperinci THE yang dikeluarkan baru-baru ini menunjukkan universiti itu berada dalam kedudukan 100 institusi pengajian tinggi (IPT) terbaik bagi tiga kategori.

``Tiga kategori itu ialah sastera dan kemanusiaan (tangga ke-45), sains sosial (83) dan bioperubatan (82) daripada lima kategori dalam kaji selidik yang dijalankan oleh The Times itu.

``Dua kategori lain ialah teknologi dan sains, bagaimanapun UM tidak tersenarai dalam kedua-dua kategori ini. Tetapi itu menunjukkan prestasi UM meningkat berbanding tahun lepas kerana sebelum ini kita tidak tersenarai pun dalam kategori-kategori tersebut.

``Bagi kami nombor bilangan tak penting tetapi markah dan prestasi yang lebih penting,'' katanya dalam sidang akhbar di sini.

Sidang akhbar khas itu diadakan bagi menjelaskan kedudukan sebenar laporan universiti terbaik dunia yang dikeluarkan THE baru-baru ini.

Kedudukan tahunan kali kedua ini adalah berdasarkan keputusan kajian terhadap 2,375 IPT dari seluruh dunia dalam pelbagai disiplin dengan kriteria termasuk bilangan kertas penyelidikan yang dipuji rakan sekerja akademik, nisbah kakitangan kepada pelajar serta bilangan pelajar dan kakitangan dari negara luar.

Kajian itu mengekalkan Universiti Harvard sebagai universiti terbaik dunia dan satu lagi universiti awam Malaysia, Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia (UKM) tersenarai pada kedudukan antara 100 universiti sains terbaik dunia.

Mengulas mengenai kebimbangan Perdana Menteri, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi mengenai kedudukan terbaru itu, Hashim berkata, pihaknya tidak bimbang kerana fakta-fakta THE membuktikan bahawa UM masih cemerlang.

Beliau menambah, laporan terperinci THE itu telah pun diserahkan kepada Pejabat Perdana Menteri pagi ini.

Ujarnya lagi, terdapat universiti tempatan seperti Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) yang menduduki tangga ke-111 tahun lepas terkeluar daripada senarai 200 universiti terbaik dunia tahun ini.

Ada 70 universiti termasuk yang masyhur di dunia terkeluar dan menurun prestasi mereka. Sebagai contoh, Institut Teknologi Tokyo di Jepun jatuh ke tangga 98 tahun ini berbanding tangga 51 tahun lalu; School of Oriental and African, United Kingdom yang terkenal jatuh ke tangga 44 ke 103; Universiti Osaka (69 ke 105) dan Universiti Paris (71 ke 121).

``Ada kira-kira 30,000 universiti di seluruh dunia tetapi kita berada di tangga ke-169,'' ujarnya.

they always have reason for it....

[kimsiang]

As a Malaysian,dropping of UM in the ranking of coz do bring some sadness to me but then,ranked 169th doesn`t mean very worse at all.....

In this case,we shd think carefully wat the ranking told us.B4 complaining about anyone,think of if u were that person.VC of UM maybe seems alwaz giving excuse but then think carefully,if u got bad result in exam,n dropped in ranking,wat yr parents wil explain her/his frens?Maybe this is not a good example,but at least it is possible that yr parents wil say the same thing as VC of UM.(This is not critic,but juz example :) )

University is a place for nurturing students at the highest level of education. Although i m not local uni`s student,i did attend some of the lectures n visited some local Unis.From wat i hv seen,although the level maybe lower,local unis r stil doing its "job",n producing many outstanding students.So,i think,UM is stil UM,USM is stil USM,they were not to blame.

I m not here to "attack" anybody,but juz hope everybody will think further n widely.Criticism is good but do something to contribute to is more practical.(From the score,we r far in behind in science n tech.So,y dun everybody here who r related to that field exercise yr ability to Malaysia?since we need u :D )
________
Herbal Vaporizers (http://herbalvaporizers.info)

[tank]

I was a local uni student.

Statistically speaking, it is not sound to gauge the quality of a university by just considering a ranking system which has just been introduced (or gained prominence) in the past few years. Consistent performance over at least a decade would give a more accurate picture.

Hence, no need to waste too much time lambasting UM or THES over the ranking issue.

Nonetheless, we don't need any ranking to see that our local universities are rotten. An equivalent statement would be to say that a genuinely good university does not need to care even if THES did not list it among the top 200.

"Real gold is not afraid of hot fire in the stove."
~old Chinese proverb.

In response to this issue, I fully agree with what topdog has mentioned. The ranking is not a big deal. It is just from a magazine. However, our IPTAs do have a lot of places that need improvements, and we can play a role in helping that.

...

That's my take on this issue. What do fellow ReComers think?

Before coming up with any suggestions to improve UM in response to the rally call quoted above, please look at the mirror and ask yourself what the real problem is.

"To shoot a horseman, shoot the horse first. To catch bandits, catch the head bandit first."
~old Chinese proverb.

Given 1 hour, any SPM student (or any parlimentarian) can come up with at least 10 suggestions on how to improve UM. However, having the guts to say what the real problem is separates the men from the boys.

The real problems with UM (and public univerties in general) are as follows:
1. Political intervension.
2. Limited intelectual freedom (due to political control on academics i.e. Surat Aku Janji, Akta Universiti Kolej Universiti).
3. Being used as tools to advance political interests.
4. Limited meritocracy for both staff and student selection (political connection and sadly, race become more important than intelectualism).

You seriously think encouraging UM academics to churn out more papers would help boost ranking? Think again. If you can't solve the problems above, nothing would help--- not recruiting more international students and faculty (who wants to come and work in UM with all the restrictions?), not having more international education road shows, and definitely not asking Intel if they are willing to hire UM students (what other students can they hire in Malaysia if not predominantly UM or local uni students?)

Come next year, there will be another round of UM bashing due to the THES ranking.

Now, Problem 4 is not written for the purpose of trampling on any racial sensitivities of the country. We must acknowledge that the absence of genuine meritocracy is part of the problem. Race-based profiling might be necessary for the country, but if it is carried out, the negative side effect is the continuous decline in university quality.

[bingzhang]

By trying to compare the criteria that make UM doing not well and point the only few ares where UM are doing alright should be something to be proud of, just do not make any sence to me.

Bunch of shits when people trying to find excuses for UM.
Whatever exuces you have come out with, UM has dropped its ranking this year, which is the fact. (I seriously think that they will actually be so glad and celebrate it if UM increased its ranking this year).

So, I would rather urge people to stop finding excuses for UM but work out the solutions to improve UM.

[byzhanii_bogn]

do u all think it is that easy to carry out the ways to improve um?

i'm not putting this as an excuse, nor would i say i'm defending her, though i do feel erm, "hot" when i read all the bashing onto her, and all the other local unis. i agree that it's my mistake to say i don't care about outher universities...

well, the thing is, there's one criteria in the ranking that review the number of proffesors and doctorates produced by the university per year. all of theuniversities locally such as UKM and USM send their thesis to be marked by profs from um, but as for those from um, it is the lecturers from cambridge and NYU. do u seriously think we can ask the profs from foreign unis to scale down the marks, as it could be done in lower education level? or perhaps just send to other ppl?

the lecturers in um did mentioned that by the ranking, um is sure not going to be climbing up, because we have so bad lecturer students ratio, and we're keeping the recruitment limited to foreign students. we hire few foreign lecturers. so, what were u thinking?

i do think about the meritocracy stuff. but we cannot do anything here.

[Zeroth]

``Bagi kami nombor bilangan tak penting tetapi markah dan prestasi yang lebih penting,'' katanya dalam sidang akhbar di sini.


If 'nombor bilangan' is not important, then why the banner last year? This is what i see as sour grape.

[bingzhang]

``Bagi kami nombor bilangan tak penting tetapi markah dan prestasi yang lebih penting,'' katanya dalam sidang akhbar di sini.


If 'nombor bilangan' is not important, then why the banner last year? This is what i see as sour grape.

Exactly what I wanted to say. If these people don't think the ranking is important, they won't put on the banner last year.

BY the way, something I like to share with you guys.

http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4506707/um_1.jpg
Seems like Najib has to agree with Dr. Hashim Yaacob since Najib's picture is hang over here.

http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4506707/um_2.jpg
Opps, this guy has just been tricked as well?

Or think in the other way, they both are actually quite fine with their pictures being hang over there as they would probably not care the drop of the ranking? Just a thought. ^_^

http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n4506707/um_3.jpg

All I could say is only Dr. Hashim Yaacob is so smart and playing the trick. 8O

[lXl]

hey,
just want to share this

5 reasons to hold on ...............

1. at least we are one of the top 200

2. we are the record holder (hopefully) of our extraordinary 'dropping ranking' status

3. free publicity for UM (which will lead to extra enrolment next term - hopefully)

4. there's an aim to dislodge UKM as the top uni in malaysia next year (or the students and profs will be bored to death - c'mon people they need challenges !!!! )

5. and last but not least...... the education ministry will acknowledge these 'jaw dropping - phenomena' and revamp our education system.....

keep ur fingers crossed people !!!!!!!

[bush]

They even got the name of the publisher wrong......shouldn't it be Times Higher Education Supplement and not Times of London?

[Europa]

Heh, my thoughts exactly!

[digimushu]

Our country's "self-denial" tendencies are well known. Our local tertiary education institutions are more like the government's "human resource factory", allocating the space and producing the students only in the areas and in the quantities that the government wants.

Academic research is limited to those that can bring money in for universities and do not reflect any interest in contributing the theoretical growth of science, engineering or humanities. How do you expect to produce citable works when you only approach all these areas for their commercial returns?

Also, there is absolutely no motivation for faculty to work any harder. The non-existence of tenure system makes the academics unmotivated to work any harder since they could get fired anyways if they piss the wrong people off.

As our PM said in his speech, we live in a country where people have first world facilities and resources, but still have third world mentality. Unless a total revamp is done, i can safely say that our universities will continue taking in thoroughbreds and producing mules.

A good read would be the article by Charis and Shien Jin.

http://cgi.stanford.edu/group/smf/cgi-bin/wiki/index.cgi?OngQuay20041120

Reality is harsh, but we cannot keep running away from our problems, but instead tackle them one by one.

[Europa]

Yeah, but how are we going to get over the problem of solving the problems when it is not even acknowledged to exist in the first place? :roll:

We might just as well hope that in the next survey in 2006, no Malaysian Universities will make it into the ranking at all and they might just wake up. Or who knows, they might just use the excuse that at least they made it into the rankings 2 years in a row, and they will be back there the year after...

[nick_khaw]

do u all think it is that easy to carry out the ways to improve um?

i'm not putting this as an excuse, nor would i say i'm defending her, though i do feel erm, "hot" when i read all the bashing onto her, and all the other local unis. i agree that it's my mistake to say i don't care about outher universities...

well, the thing is, there's one criteria in the ranking that review the number of proffesors and doctorates produced by the university per year. all of theuniversities locally such as UKM and USM send their thesis to be marked by profs from um, but as for those from um, it is the lecturers from cambridge and NYU. do u seriously think we can ask the profs from foreign unis to scale down the marks, as it could be done in lower education level? or perhaps just send to other ppl?

the lecturers in um did mentioned that by the ranking, um is sure not going to be climbing up, because we have so bad lecturer students ratio, and we're keeping the recruitment limited to foreign students. we hire few foreign lecturers. so, what were u thinking?

i do think about the meritocracy stuff. but we cannot do anything here.

Of course it's not easy. But if you drop 80 spots through whatever criteria, steps and methods, however difficult, should be taken to, at the very least, stop the rot. If you're talking about 'scaling down the marks', this clearly shows that the theses sent by the UM ppl are not up to standard. Something's wrong here.

Instead of denying that something's wrong, Malaysians should accept the fact that we are in decline. The first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge it.

From there, steps should be taken to aid the situation.

[byzhanii_bogn]

do u all think it is that easy to carry out the ways to improve um?

i'm not putting this as an excuse, nor would i say i'm defending her, though i do feel erm, "hot" when i read all the bashing onto her, and all the other local unis. i agree that it's my mistake to say i don't care about outher universities...

well, the thing is, there's one criteria in the ranking that review the number of proffesors and doctorates produced by the university per year. all of theuniversities locally such as UKM and USM send their thesis to be marked by profs from um, but as for those from um, it is the lecturers from cambridge and NYU. do u seriously think we can ask the profs from foreign unis to scale down the marks, as it could be done in lower education level? or perhaps just send to other ppl?

the lecturers in um did mentioned that by the ranking, um is sure not going to be climbing up, because we have so bad lecturer students ratio, and we're keeping the recruitment limited to foreign students. we hire few foreign lecturers. so, what were u thinking?

i do think about the meritocracy stuff. but we cannot do anything here.

Of course it's not easy. But if you drop 80 spots through whatever criteria, steps and methods, however difficult, should be taken to, at the very least, stop the rot. If you're talking about 'scaling down the marks', this clearly shows that the theses sent by the UM ppl are not up to standard. Something's wrong here.

Instead of denying that something's wrong, Malaysians should accept the fact that we are in decline. The first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge it.

From there, steps should be taken to aid the situation.

okie... so, if we do agree that we're in decline and we voice out that everyone should wake up and do something, do u think everyone would think the same? simple, most of us will say, we cannot do anything, the vc have to do something. everyone's putting the responsibility on the vc or the government. none of us want to do anything. it ended up we're the ones doing the talking but no action. what is the use of that?

[bush]

It's not that none of us want to do anything but none of us can do anything, we just do not have the ability and influence to do anything

[nick_khaw]

do u all think it is that easy to carry out the ways to improve um?

i'm not putting this as an excuse, nor would i say i'm defending her, though i do feel erm, "hot" when i read all the bashing onto her, and all the other local unis. i agree that it's my mistake to say i don't care about outher universities...

well, the thing is, there's one criteria in the ranking that review the number of proffesors and doctorates produced by the university per year. all of theuniversities locally such as UKM and USM send their thesis to be marked by profs from um, but as for those from um, it is the lecturers from cambridge and NYU. do u seriously think we can ask the profs from foreign unis to scale down the marks, as it could be done in lower education level? or perhaps just send to other ppl?

the lecturers in um did mentioned that by the ranking, um is sure not going to be climbing up, because we have so bad lecturer students ratio, and we're keeping the recruitment limited to foreign students. we hire few foreign lecturers. so, what were u thinking?

i do think about the meritocracy stuff. but we cannot do anything here.

Of course it's not easy. But if you drop 80 spots through whatever criteria, steps and methods, however difficult, should be taken to, at the very least, stop the rot. If you're talking about 'scaling down the marks', this clearly shows that the theses sent by the UM ppl are not up to standard. Something's wrong here.

Instead of denying that something's wrong, Malaysians should accept the fact that we are in decline. The first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge it.

From there, steps should be taken to aid the situation.

okie... so, if we do agree that we're in decline and we voice out that everyone should wake up and do something, do u think everyone would think the same? simple, most of us will say, we cannot do anything, the vc have to do something. everyone's putting the responsibility on the vc or the government. none of us want to do anything. it ended up we're the ones doing the talking but no action. what is the use of that?

Well, for a start, I emailed the office of the VC expressing my concern at the recent ongoings. And as for action, what do you expect me to do? Rip out the signs and stuff? Certainly not. So if like you say, we should do something, what should we do then? Frankly, whether everyone thinks the same is inconsequential. I won't get everyone to agree with me anyway. But, on my part, I will, at least, attempt to do something. So if there's something else I can do, why don't you let me know?

[Europa]

It's not that none of us want to do anything but none of us can do anything, we just do not have the ability and influence to do anything
We need critical mass. And then we need organisation. Then we need publicity. Any ideas on how to do it without us getting into trouble with the authorities?

BTW nick_khaw, I recommend that the mail be sent to the PM's office. IMHO, that's the best shot in getting the desired response.

[digimushu]

Honestly, the university has been ignoring student voices for years. We are talking about systems where the students are given a dresscode and are expected to keep to it. Even dyeing their hair is not allowed. The VC and others are appointed by the ministry of higher education and that really means that even if they want to change, if the ministry does not agree with their change, they wont do it. You want change? You are free to try but the appeals will fall on deaf ears.

I, for one, foresee that our universities lose out to others (singapore and thailand) because of the lack of self-critique and the lagging implementation of remedial solutions. I know i sound pessimistic, but sometimes, you have to look at the realities of life.

[masdie]

Well, for a start, I emailed the office of the VC expressing my concern at the recent ongoings.
BTW nick_khaw, I recommend that the mail be sent to the PM's office. IMHO, that's the best shot in getting the desired response.

And while you're at it, why not CC it to the local press? Public attention sure gets the idea across. :wink:

[bush]

It's not that none of us want to do anything but none of us can do anything, we just do not have the ability and influence to do anything
We need critical mass. And then we need organisation. Then we need publicity. Any ideas on how to do it without us getting into trouble with the authorities?

BTW nick_khaw, I recommend that the mail be sent to the PM's office. IMHO, that's the best shot in getting the desired response.

Forming a group means getting in to trouble with the authorities.....we all know that the government doesn't like students meddling with their business....we might even be arrested under ISA for being 'threat to national security'......

However, if we do get sufficient members who are 'of great potential', alumni and current students of big universities, the possibility of getting into a direct confrontation might be reduced.

[nick_khaw]

I am a current student of a big university.

[Europa]

Heh, in that case try rallying all the M'sians who have ever studied in Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College, etc etc etc and make a public petition to the PM. That might just work...

[seancl85]

em...i am not saying anything...but malaysia local universities are not really that good..though kdu,taylor's,utar n a few more are not in the list...i mean iF those colleges were given the same time that UM was established,it can be as good as UM or even better than UM..

[chenchow]

I would fully agree with the notion that we should do something, and I think that at the very least that we all could do, would be to brainstorm some good suggestions, recommendations, and submit it to the press, UM, PM Office or any other relevant authorities.

I would say that whatever action that we plan to do, would come from the intention to help improve the quality of education in Malaysia.

So, if we are going to put forth some suggestions, what are those concrete suggestions that we could share, that we could help work on.

[Kazaf]

I think the government and UM are perfectly aware of what 'needs' to be done to improve UM. It is ridiculous to suppose otherwise. What is absent is not ideas, but desire.

Everyone knows that to 'improve' UM would be not be politically expedient.

[deRame]

well, according to Prof. Datuk Dr. Hashim Yaacob (VC of UM), UM is indeed improving compared to the last year. although UM suffers a huge drop in the ranking, she actually gains better points.

http://utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2005&dt=1105&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Rencana&pg=re_01.htm

[DecentMerson]

well, according to Prof. Datuk Dr. Hashim Yaacob (VC of UM), UM is indeed improving compared to the last year. although UM suffers a huge drop in the ranking, she actually gains better points.

http://utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2005&dt=1105&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Rencana&pg=re_01.htm

he is missing the point yet again... the point is not that UM is not not improving... but the problem is it is not improving as fast as others are... and that makes UM's dropping in ranking...

just like an athlete might be better after some training, but, if his/her rivals are improving faster than he or she is, when competing or comparing, it will only show that how that athlete is losing ground... the same goes to a country's economy, or a company's performance... like Proton for example, I bet that I can safely say that the newer cars are better than the older cars...(in term of technology... not so sure about the quality)... but that doesn't translate into Proton is producing GOOD cars, why? because when compared to other cars, it is far from good...

when will some(not all) Malaysians(even a VC of UM) stop making a fool of him/herself... it is clear that UM's ranking is dropping for some reasons, i think it is vital for those-in-charge to recognize it and do something about it...

they have to stop the selective reasoning(ooh, last year, the ranking is worth celebrating, while this year, the ranking is nothing... and yet, they try to counter the dropping of ranking with the "better points" argument...) ENOUGH is enough...

[digimushu]

Heh, in that case try rallying all the M'sians who have ever studied in Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College, etc etc etc and make a public petition to the PM. That might just work...

It's not that all of us here do not want to support you guys or not do anything. Malaysia is our homeland, and we are proud to be agents of change, but seriously, some of us here doubt that it would be easy to change anything. We all know that people are happy with status quo and will be very hard pressed to change.

As a Malaysian, I am proud to say that we have come a long way in education since our independence, but we still have a long way to go towards academic excellence.

[misled_youth]

I would fully agree with the notion that we should do something, and I think that at the very least that we all could do, would be to brainstorm some good suggestions, recommendations, and submit it to the press, UM, PM Office or any other relevant authorities.

Chenchow: These idiots won't even listen to the PM. What more a parrot of the PM like you?

"INI NEGARA UMNO, KALO YOU TAK SUKA YOU BOLEH KELUAR DARI MALAYSIA!"

[Europa]

It's not that all of us here do not want to support you guys or not do anything. Malaysia is our homeland, and we are proud to be agents of change, but seriously, some of us here doubt that it would be easy to change anything. We all know that people are happy with status quo and will be very hard pressed to change.

As a Malaysian, I am proud to say that we have come a long way in education since our independence, but we still have a long way to go towards academic excellence.
That's the thing. The ruling class and their supporters wants to retain the status quo, and those people that wants change is either powerless or hesitant to speak out. The rest is probably ignorant of the whole situation in the first place or are only concerned about their own turf.

I've noticed that most of the problems discussed here in Recom about things in M'sia eventually end up in this dead end : We could not do anything about it. Sure, we all have the 'good' ideas, but how are we going to form a united front and voice our concerns to obtain the pubic's approval, thereby galvanising the government into action (hopefully)? To make a serious attempt to change something in M'sia will ultimately require political credit to spend. And that would run the risk of being labelled as the Opposition by the government, and as the government has a tight grip on the media which would mean that we would be deprived of effective means of communication with the public. Now who would have the courage, stamina, money and time to spend in overcoming this challenges?

[misled_youth]

So, if we are going to put forth some suggestions, what are those concrete suggestions that we could share, that we could help work on.

Fine. I'll take your bait.

Are you in Malaysia? We'll discuss, and MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

I'm sick of your lip service.

[whatever]

Heh, in that case try rallying all the M'sians who have ever studied in Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial College, etc etc etc and make a public petition to the PM. That might just work...

It's not that all of us here do not want to support you guys or not do anything. Malaysia is our homeland, and we are proud to be agents of change, but seriously, some of us here doubt that it would be easy to change anything. We all know that people are happy with status quo and will be very hard pressed to change.

As a Malaysian, I am proud to say that we have come a long way in education since our independence, but we still have a long way to go towards academic excellence.Well said, digimushu. :!:

[byzhanii_bogn]

well, there was an article in New SUnday Times yesterday that mentioned about the drop. actually, our uni were never ment to be top 100. as in, the 89 last year was a mistake... this is because the chinese and indian students in um and usm were mistaken as foreign students... this year, they corrected the mistake so there is a drop in the ranking. indeed, the standard of our uni has not changed or dropped or whatever, it's the mistake in the ranking last year. of course, i agree that we should do something about it, but at least, i suppose there is some increase compared to the early 90s where it's not even in the list... in the 70s, when my dad was there, um was a very prestigous uni, as i'm informed...

just my opinion... :lol:

[kevinkhoo1986]

i heard that as well from my teacher. UM was once one of the top uni in asia pacific and the world as well. But right now, you could hardly see it's ranking on the top ten.

[nick_khaw]

Now who would have the courage, stamina, money and time to spend in overcoming this challenges?

You asked the question at the wrong time. If you had asked me in 10-15 years time, I'd have the courage, stamina, money and time. Now, I just have the courage and the stamina. =P

[Europa]

Now who would have the courage, stamina, money and time to spend in overcoming this challenges?

You asked the question at the wrong time. If you had asked me in 10-15 years time, I'd have the courage, stamina, money and time. Now, I just have the courage and the stamina. =P
Wow, a guy with grand plans eh? All right then, I shall remember to post the same question later. Lets see what this Harvard economist can do then. :wink:

[zAiTsEv]

i heard that as well from my teacher. UM was once one of the top uni in asia pacific and the world as well. But right now, you could hardly see it's ranking on the top ten.

in asia pacific, maybe; but in the world? hmm...

[Kazaf]

So, if we are going to put forth some suggestions, what are those concrete suggestions that we could share, that we could help work on.

I'm sick of your lip service.
Come, come, my friend. Surely we can be civil and courteous to each other? Why such intense hostility towards another fellow student?

[digimushu]

Now who would have the courage, stamina, money and time to spend in overcoming this challenges?

You asked the question at the wrong time. If you had asked me in 10-15 years time, I'd have the courage, stamina, money and time. Now, I just have the courage and the stamina. =P
Wow, a guy with grand plans eh? All right then, I shall remember to post the same question later. Lets see what this Harvard economist can do then. :wink:

Hopefully he won't have to worry about feeding his kids and family and committing career suicide then. :D

[misled_youth]

well, there was an article in New SUnday Times yesterday that mentioned about the drop. actually, our uni were never ment to be top 100. as in, the 89 last year was a mistake... this is because the chinese and indian students in um and usm were mistaken as foreign students... this year, they corrected the mistake so there is a drop in the ranking. indeed, the standard of our uni has not changed or dropped or whatever, it's the mistake in the ranking last year. of course, i agree that we should do something about it, but at least, i suppose there is some increase compared to the early 90s where it's not even in the list... in the 70s, when my dad was there, um was a very prestigous uni, as i'm informed...

just my opinion... :lol:

Actually, you really have a good point.

1. If this is true, its no surprise that UM is still so proud

2. If this is true, then complaints should be made redundant

[chenchow]

Thanks byzhanii_bogn for pointing that out. Yeah, The Star does run the same issue, and basically UM and USM was ranked at 89 and 111 respectively last year, was mainly due to the mistake in the ranking, where Chinese and Indian were accidentally treated by the Times as international students. So, I would say that the standing of our university does not change much over the two years.

And personally, I think that our universities should strive harder to work on improvements. USM has mentioned that it has engaged a consultant group in UK to help solving the problem, and hopefully it could improve on its standing.

And I would say that UM, UKM and other universities should not rest on their laurel. There is still a long way to go. We would need to really utilize the resources, to improve our education sector. It is a long and arduous job, but I think that if we could do it, the future of our nation would be brighter.

[Irresistible]

Just admit it, ranking of Our Proud University has drop tremendously!! Why Singapore University is always ranked top 50?? There is reasons there....
If last year they make a mistake, even worse, so that means UM is never at the top 100 ?! :oops: :oops:

[masdie]

USM has mentioned that it has engaged a consultant group in UK to help solving the problem, and hopefully it could improve on its standing.

Wow...so USM really want to go back into the list huh. And wow....more money spent on those consultants huh. Damn it. I don't think those consultants can really help. To make it to the top (which I don't think will ever happen before I die), I think we all know what the problem is. It's the attitude people. Our M'sian attitude we're always proud of. Our "cukup makan" attitude. Our lack of competitiveness. Our lack of fighting spirit. We have people who're not interested to work hard for their own country. As long as they earn enough, they don't give a damn if USM make it to the top 200. And growing up in this kind of environment, I don't think I can help folks. Sorry. Well, as long as I get my RM800 monthly pay, I don't care. I just don't care.

[zAiTsEv]

And I would say that UM, UKM and other universities should not rest on their laurel.

laurel? what laurel? i don't see any. unless you're referring to the 169th place in the rankings, which is still top 200 eh?

[digimushu]

Lets put it this way, excellence does not come by celebrating mediocrity.

[zAiTsEv]

One's words reflect one's thinking. Maybe he really thinks that it is an achievement. Who knows? :wink:

[nick_khaw]

Now who would have the courage, stamina, money and time to spend in overcoming this challenges?

You asked the question at the wrong time. If you had asked me in 10-15 years time, I'd have the courage, stamina, money and time. Now, I just have the courage and the stamina. =P
Wow, a guy with grand plans eh? All right then, I shall remember to post the same question later. Lets see what this Harvard economist can do then. :wink:

Hopefully he won't have to worry about feeding his kids and family and committing career suicide then. :D

Lol. If I do that, I'll be sure to post on Recom. =P

[kimsiang]

for those who know chinese,pls visit this website...
http://www.nanyang.com/index.php?ch=29&pg=791&ac=550885
It reveals the trend in local university ....not totally about the ranking,but also what the students are doing inside there.....sorry for those who cant read chinese...
________
Vicodin rehab dicussion (http://www.rehab-forum.com/vicodin-rehab/)

[DecentMerson]

i'm not going to let this get away so easily...

check this out...

http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/2005/11/um_the_art_of_c.php

why the celebration and hoo-hah, with the "Seven Billboards of Shame and Dishonour"?

http://www.dapmalaysia.org/english/2005/nov05/lks/lks3704.htm

if the ranking is not important, as mentioned by VC not long ago.... why is there a 'celebration' and 'recognition' for it now??
Kedudukan nombor bukan ukuran prestasi. Yang penting jumlah markah yang diperoleh, bukan kedudukan nombor. Contohnya, kalau seorang murid pada peperiksaan penggal pertama mendapat nombor 10 dengan markah 50 peratus, adakah lebih tinggi prestasinya berbanding dengan peperiksaan yang didudukinya pada penggal kedua sekiranya dia mendapat nombor 30 tetapi markahnya ialah 70 peratus?

Dalam hal ini kedudukan nombor tidak bermakna. Kedudukan markahnya adalah utama.

Jikalau kedudukan nombor tidak bermakna, kenapa papan tanda hanya menunjukkan kedudukan... dan bukan markah?

On top of that, if VC Prof Dr Hashim Yaacob believes with that:
John O'Leary, Editor The Times of London memperkukuhkan pendapat saya dengan katanya mengenai kaji selidik THE itu dengan menyatakan: ``Oleh kerana kepelbagaian kriteria dengan universiti-universiti mempunyai misi berlainan dan kekuatan yang berbeza, menyebabkan ia sukar untuk dibandingkan. Tidak ada petunjuk bahawa universiti di kedudukan tertinggi dalam jadual adalah lebih baik daripada yang paling di bawah.''
Why the billboards? 'Selective' reasoning? only believe in what's in our advantage and dismiss anything that's of disadvantage??

shameless...

[digimushu]

One word: Hypocrisy!

[digimushu]

I was speaking to a Malaysian academic during the raya visit to MSDWDC and we had a little dialogue on the shortcomings of the Malaysian Education system. I was telling him how there is a huge difference between the engineers educated back home and the engineers educated in the US that i had observed. Most engineers back home are really good at remembering the theory and can recall something off the cuff if needed. However, it take longer for them to formulate problems from the observed physical symptoms. He told me he noticed the same problems in final year medical students which are 4.00 students. However, locally produced lawyers seem to be "better" at "thinking", probably because of the nature of the training and analysis needed for the bar exam.

We both agreed the system is flawed, all the way from primary school and secondary school and the effects propagate themselves to the tertiary level. When the measure of "goodness" of a student is measured in the number of As he/she can get in an exam rather than the ability of the student to think and solve problems, you tend to create mindless non-thinking workers more than research-able students. With this, our ability to innovate and be creative is stifled and we will lose ground in human capital.

I say abolish the UPU system and let the universities decide the admissions for the students. We need to let the universities take the brunt of their own undoing. It's up to them to choose whether they want to stay on the top or be left behind. I applaude that our PM did in this case, by letting the VC of UM answer this on his own.

To gain improvement, we have to constantly change. The system has to change, so that we will not be left behind. What do you think?

[topdog]

i'm not going to let this get away so easily...

check this out...

http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/2005/11/um_the_art_of_c.php
wow that's so disgustingly lame. do they think msians are stupid? if i were a um student i would feel so offended....they should let real academics run the universities instead of bureaucrats and politicians.

[skyAngel]

i think Um and govt shd realise the real problems they always made and caused the ranking out of Top 100 this time. of cos, i dun think UM is improve anyway.

[Irresistible]

Kedudukan nombor bukan ukuran prestasi. Yang penting jumlah markah yang diperoleh, bukan kedudukan nombor. Contohnya, kalau seorang murid pada peperiksaan penggal pertama mendapat nombor 10 dengan markah 50 peratus, adakah lebih tinggi prestasinya berbanding dengan peperiksaan yang didudukinya pada penggal kedua sekiranya dia mendapat nombor 30 tetapi markahnya ialah 70 peratus?

Dalam hal ini kedudukan nombor tidak bermakna. Kedudukan markahnya adalah utama.



Nonsense!! :twisted: :twisted:
How can I get no. 1 if I get 60 marks!! Jumlah markah penting jika markah lebih tinggi drpd orang lain, iatu untuk menentukan kedudukan kita....

[tako]

Good point! The ranking is not an impeccable measurement, neither is the Petronas Scholarship. Faiz Fazil just proved it himself. Before we even "delusionally" (I scored 278/300 in MUET, never heard of this word though) engage ourselves in intellectualistic discourses (not INTELLECTUAL discourses), allow me to first correct a few glaring inaccuracies in Faiz's post. First things first, are Taylor's, Nilai and KDU even universities? If they aren't, why should they even be brought into discussion? It is obvious that someone is not getting his facts right. Speaking of ignorance, I think it is pretty obvious who is being ignorant.

I agree with Faiz - there is no impeccable way of measuring a university's well-being. I am not alone in that; even admission officers from Stanford University say so. Numbers do not necessarily reflect the quality of a university. Well, just to digress a little, if numbers do not matter, I wonder why Faiz mentioned "no 3 under sponsorship petronas". I guess we have yet to acquire the sophistication to understand Faiz's reasoning? Or perhaps, Faiz might want to reconsider attending University of Sydney since good numbers do not necessarily reflect good quality? Whilst there is no impeccable way, it doesn't mean that it is impossible to quantify a university's quality.

The numbers might not be completely accurate, but neither are they entirely insignificant. If the numbers are entirely insignificant, could Faiz explain why universities like Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge consistently topped various rankings like THES and Shanghai Jiao Tong University Ranking, which utilize different criteria? Well, at least Faiz agreed that ?it IS accurate according to criteria that THES sets? (I guess he meant that the numbers only reflect how well has a university done according to standards set by THES)

Besides, I don?t think UM is agreeing with Faiz, for they have been celebrating lavishly for being one of the top 200 universities in the world. I don?t even see universities like Cambridge and Harvard celebrating though. Our neighbouring NUS might have celebrated, but to the extent of printing banners? We are not merely concerned about the numbers, but also the attitude. The lavish celebration demonstrated complacency and is starkly at odds with our Prime Minister?s call ? ?not to rest on our laurels?. We recognize that there are good lecturers in UM, and that UM is of certain quality. But, is it enough? We claim to be of international standard, but are we even there yet? I agree that the rankings of various institutions have been fluctuating. Many outstanding institutions might have been underrated. However, what puzzles me is, even with this great degree of fluctuation, UM can?t make it to at least Top 75? Remember Faiz, your logic goes both ways.

Faiz claims that we have been speculating for a chance to criticize the government and UM. Are we? I wonder who brought in completely irrelevant issues into the discussion. I wonder who started the Chinese-University and Malay-University dichotomy. What does voting for DAP has to do with UM being ranked 169 anyway? I wonder why there is a need for fanatic slogans like ?Melayu boleh? too. UM is never a Malay University in the very first place, we don?t even classify universities in such a way; speaking of ignorance.

Recom-ers, I think it is time we did something about this. Remember the A*STAR Scholar from Singapore who misbehaved? A*STAR demanded that he makes an open apology, or risk the withdrawal of his scholarship. In his post, Faiz not only brought up racial sentiments, but also openly insulted universities/colleges like UTAR, UNITAR, TARC, Nilai, Taylor's, Sunway, and KDU. I think we should submit a memo to Petronas demanding an apology from Faiz. Else, we should just ask Petronas to withdraw his scholarship. Remember, it is the tax-payers money that he?s spending. Do you think he?s worth it?

By the way Faiz, if you are reading this, I am a Chinese holding a conditional offer from the University of Cambridge.

[bush]

Who the heck is Faiz?

[thesoothsayer]

The guy that posted in LKS blog. Someone copied his post over in page 2 of this discussion I think.

[bush]

It is pointless to reply here, tako should have done it at LKS's blog

[digimushu]

Since this is related...I'll post this here. I apologize I must C&P because The Star's archives suck.

From: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/3/11/focus/13632347&sec=focus

An open letter to Mustapa

Dear Sir,

Firstly, allow me to congratulate you on your new posting. It must be said though that you are not to be envied, for you are now faced with a Herculean task.

But, where are my manners? You have no idea who I am. I could be a complete nutcase.

Well, I?m an academic in a Malaysian public university. Which some people might consider a nutcase, anyway. But I?m very proud to be an academic.

It?s a noble profession, and it matters not that my students earn more than me within a few years of graduating and that little children run screaming from my hideously outdated clothes. It?s a calling to be an academic, and I care passionately about it.

That is why I?m writing to you. You see, there is much that is wrong with our universities and much that can be done by the Ministry to put things right.

You may not believe that my one purpose in writing to you is the improvement of our institutions, but let me assure you, we true academics (as opposed to wannabe politicians in lecturers? clothes) don?t have hidden agendas.

Over the past few years, there has been this mantra chanted by the Government and university leaders: ?We want our universities to be world-class universities.? Unfortunately, this mantra does not have any explanatory notes, so we don?t really know what ?world-class? means. However, let us assume that a world-class university has the following:


-Graduates who are employable, not only here but also abroad;


-Academic staff who are respected worldwide;


-Research and publications that are recognised by reputable international journals/publishers;


-An academic programme that is recognised worldwide;


-An academic atmosphere that can attract quality national and foreign students and staff.

If we accept these criteria as valid, what then can be done to achieve it?

Universities are not hampers

Universities are not rewards to be handed out. It has happened in Terengganu and the same has been promised to Kelantan. ?Vote for us and we will give you a university.?

This may make political sense, but it does not make any academic sense. A lot of planning is needed to ensure that the resources are sufficient to create a university of quality.

Malaysia is not a very rich country ? we can?t afford petrol subsidies, for goodness? sake ? and we definitely can?t afford to stretch our limited economic and intellectual resources to build universities in such a blas? manner.

Universities are not fast-food joints

They should instead be high-class restaurants. Universities have to be elitist in order to produce quality research and graduates.

An elitist university means that only the best candidates are taken in as students and only the best staff are hired. Classes and exams can then be pitched at a higher standard.

Furthermore, the resulting smaller student numbers mean seminars and tutorials can be truly conducive to discussions, and lecturers will have less of a teaching burden in order to concentrate on research.

This is not to say that higher education as a whole must be elitist. There are other forms of higher education institutions that can cater to school leavers who don?t make the cut, such as polytechnics and community colleges.

If you love your universities, you must set them free

Academics and students must be free to think and to express themselves.

Yes, I understand that this is Malaysia and freedom is seen as a dirty word by some, but without it, there is little hope of achieving ?world-class? universities.

Intellectualism cannot grow in a repressive atmosphere.

We all know that in this country, there are many laws that restrict our freedom to express ourselves, but the irony is that for lecturers and students there are additional laws levelled at them.

You must be aware of the University and University Colleges Act ? that wonderful piece of legislation designed to ensure that university students are little more than secondary school pupils.

You may not be aware, however, of the Statutory Bodies Discipline and Surcharge Act which affects academics who are the employees of statutory bodies.

According to this law, we can?t say anything for or against government policy without getting ministerial permission first.

Now, this may be all right for a mathematician quietly thinking up new formulae with which to calculate the possibility of Malaysia ever qualifying for the World Cup.

But for social scientists, it is akin to having the Malaysian football team play football without using their feet (which is perhaps something that they do anyway, looking at previous results).

The simple fact of the matter is that universities should first and foremost be the birthplace of ideas and original thought, discussion and debate, and this can?t be achieved with such laws hung around our necks.

And in case you?re worried that greater freedom will make our campuses hotbeds of radicalism, please let me put your fears to rest.

The number of students in this day and age who really care about matters beyond Akademi Fantasia is very small indeed.

Most students just want to graduate and as quickly as possible get into debt to pay for their three-bedroom flat and Proton Waja.

Universities need Mandelas

If there is one thing that Malaysian universities need, it is good leadership. And by a good leader, I mean a Vice-Chancellor who has the qualities of an outstanding intellectual, manager and diplomat, who can ensure that academic principles are paramount, not political expediency.

That promotions are given based on merit, not patronage. That students are treated like adults, not children. And finally, that the university is run on the highest ideals of civilisation and intellectualism, not self-aggrandisement and base toadying.

An outstanding academic leader, someone who can efficiently organise the place, represent the institution with dignity and command the respect of those working under him, or her, is a rare creature indeed.

To seek out such a person, may I suggest that the search committee your predecessor was talking about be made a reality.

This search committee, however, must be independent and transparent. It must not be hiHndered by any political agenda and must instead pick the candidates based on ability ? and ability alone. Factors such as race, creed, gender and nationality should not be a consideration.

Perhaps we?d like to take lessons from elsewhere. Oh, before you think I?m suggesting a ?study trip? abroad (with the usual sightseeing and cultural diversions), let me make it clear that I think the taxpayers? money need not be wasted in such a fashion. After all, writing an e-mail is probably all you need to do to get the necessary information.

You may wish to start with New Zealand universities. I say New Zealand because the VC of Auckland University was recently poached by Oxford to be its Vice-Chancellor. The first non-English VC of Oxford since, well, since forever.

Now, that?s world-class, don?t you think? And from a country much smaller than us where the sheep outnumber the humans. Amazing.Well then, Sir, I think I?d best sign off now. You must have loads to do. Oh, before I forget, if you want to lighten the workload of your officers, may I make a last suggestion?

Why don?t you just leave the day-to-day running of the universities in the hands of the universities? I bet the Ministry has enough on its plate without having to decide about trivial things like professorial promotions and the approving of leave for academics to go to conferences and holidays overseas.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read my letter. Good luck with your endeavours. Until next time, I remain,

Yours sincerely,
AZMI SHAROM


Dr Azmi Sharom is an associate professor of the Law Faculty of Universiti Malaya


I love the wit in this letter. Good luck to him. The rest....is up to MOHE...

[weich]

wow, that's brave but he certainly makes his point =)

[tako]

couldn't find faiz fazil's post on LKS's blog.. else i'll fire him straight in his a**. *AHEM* excuse my french