Creating my own path.. Med in the U.S

[James_Padfoot]

Konnichiwa minna-san.

I am Kavidha N, senior high school student. This year I take on the SPM, not as gruelling as I originally thought it would be. I have spoken to chief examiners, students, teachers, only to find that the standard of the examination has dropped tremendously. Alright, so maybe getting 10A1's won't be that tough, but it's rather dismaying isn't it? Anyway, I'm going off tangent, the point that I was eventually going to come to was the fact that SPM isn't enough to score entrances to local or abroad uni's (because the standards set are just saaaad).

I have an outlined plan about what I want to do after SPM. And no offence, but I've been told that taking the STPM is a waste of TIME and TIME. I mean, 2 years for the same nonsense of SPM? Plus, being non-bumi doesn't help one bit.

I was thinking of doing the SAT's. For those clueless, it's the Scholastic Aptitude Test. (Better known as the Stupendously Annoying Test :P ) It's an American based exam, although accepted in most universities all over the world. As a Malaysian, I have a couple of disadvantages. (No suprise there)

1. I have learned Maths, Bio, Chem and Physics in BM all my life.
2. Most people who take the SAT's already have AP (Advance Placement) credits.
3. The Malaysian education system is some years behind that of the states. (Again, anyone suprised?)

Alright so let's say by some of God's good grace I do well in both my SPM, SAT I and SAT II subjects. There's still the question of entrance.

Entrance to US colleges (and the ones I have in mind are all Ivy Leagues 8O ) is NOT easy. And then there's the issue of financial burdens.

Now let's once again picture I do brilliantly well, I get accepted into say ... Dartmouth, and then complete my first four pre-req years.

Now here's where the problem really starts... (everything before were just entrees T_T )

> Mostly almost impossible to gain admittance into an American Medical School if you are Non-American I might consider applying for permanent residentship... [I love Malaysia, but the entire system drives me insane, they say diversity, bla bla bla, but it's all just a cover up... It's not the people, it's those holding the reigns.. *refuses to elaborate* ]
> The Medical School System in the States is NOT recognized in Malaysia. (Why, I have no clue, considering they are far more advanced than us)
> The entire enchilada costs about almost RM 1 million. How am I supposed to afford that?

The U.S will guarantee my education being recognized, as well as promising a good round and quality education.

..... Okay, so things don't look to bright for moi. Fear not, my ramblings are not in vain, I have questions perhaps the likes of you may be able to answer or share insight.


1. JPA, from what I've heard isn't that great an option. I mean, honestly, Indonesia? And I don't mean to discriminate, but I hardly know any doctors who've made it that can boast about Indonesia. So, is the stigma really that bad?

2. Many universities in Russia and India are not recognized. I only know of Munipal that is. Considering these countries are much cheaper, does anyone know somewhere that offers quality and reasonable tuition fees?

3. Is there anyone (or do you know anyone) who has made it to Princeton/Yale/Harvard/Dartmouth/Brown/Columbia or any other first tier colleges in the States? How did they get in?

4. Is studying Med in the States a good option? Does anyone have any other suggestions?

5. Is there scholarships I should be on the look out for that will help me? (Since I seriously need it, not exactly rolling in the green....)

6. Any tips I can apply to my life, since I am still in senior year and therefore have a two year span to plan out.. (one year for SPM, one year for SAT)


Alright, I think I've questioned enough for one post. I hope that this thread will help other prospective students as well.

Domo arigatou,
Kavidha-chan.

[youngyew]

I am not very familiar with the US med system, but I thought they would only admit international students for post-graduate medical course? Do they admit international medical undergraduate?

[James_Padfoot]

Undergratuates are admitted. I am not sure if Malaysian colleges have tweening programs for American Ivy Leagues. During your four years, you are not required to pick a major, though by sophmore year, you should already know what you want to do. They want their students to be all rounders, so even if you take, say Biochem you will also be encouraged to take something that doesn't particularly lead to medicine, say Astronomy.

[youngyew]

Why don't JPA and other scholarship providers send students to US for medicine?

p.s. Sorry I am asking questions instead of answering them. :P

[James_Padfoot]

Well I don't know about other scholarships, but I know JPA doesn't. I suppose it's rather expensive, and they have alliances with Russia & India and not the States.

And it's alright, hehehe.

[youngyew]

Undergratuates are admitted. I am not sure if Malaysian colleges have tweening programs for American Ivy Leagues. During your four years, you are not required to pick a major, though by sophmore year, you should already know what you want to do. They want their students to be all rounders, so even if you take, say Biochem you will also be encouraged to take something that doesn't particularly lead to medicine, say Astronomy.
This page (http://www.fulbright.co.uk/eas/studyus/subjects/medicine.html) intrigues me..
In the US medicine is taught only at the postgraduate level after an undergraduate university education. You cannot apply to US medical schools after completing A levels or Scottish Highers. You must first complete an undergraduate degree.
Admission to US medical schools is extremely competitive. Many US medical schools, especially at state-supported institutions, will not consider international students for admission to MD programmes. The representation of foreign students in US medical schools stands at less than 1% of all students. US medical schools have a primary obligation to train US citizens and are strict about accepting international students into the first year class. This obstacle can be overcome if you can establish permanent residency status prior to making an application. If you plan to apply to a state-supported school, be aware that most are required to give preference to in-state residents. Most international students accepted by US medical schools had attended a US undergraduate institution for at least one year.

[James_Padfoot]

Most international students accepted by US medical schools had attended a US undergraduate institution for at least one year.

There, you said it yourself. You have to be at an US college.

[youngyew]

Most international students accepted by US medical schools had attended a US undergraduate institution for at least one year.

There, you said it yourself. You have to be at an US college.
Ooh okay.. I thought you meant undergraduate for medicine, earlier on. Now I get it - a few years of undergraduate studies then 4 years of medical postgraduate studies.

[masdie]

To be admitted into an American med school, you will need a college degree. There are exceptions though where certain medical schools quarantee you a place in their medical class AFTER you finish college. Though it is usually a different story when you are an international student.

Getting a green card is not that easy. And not so soon either.

American MDs ARE recognised by Malaysia. Click here (http://www.mma.org.my/info/colleges/us.htm)

If you're looking for Ivy students or graduates, then you have come to the right place. There are TONS of them here! Phew! How I wish I am one of them as well.

Maybe you should contact aquila (http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=profile&mode=viewprofile&u=1298). I remember she said something about wanting to apply to med school in the States.

There's actually an existing thread on this here (http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3272&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=medicine+us).

[masdie]

Why don't JPA and other scholarship providers send students to US for medicine?

Only JPA can tell you why. But the biggest turn-off should be the cost. JPA would have to spend a large sum giving their scholars 3 years of college education in US and then sponsoring them another 4 years for med school. Even Americans end up with a huge debt at the end of their med school, though things start to improve when they start residency, and then it will be heaven when they become attendings or when they start private practice.

[masdie]

PS: James_Padfoot, you are very ambitious. You have a big plan ahead of you. However things sometimes don't go according to plan. I've said this somewhere before but please, always have a backup plan to fall back onto.

Hope everything goes well for you. Good luck!

[aquila]

Hey there,

If you are still in high school and know that you want to be in the health profession, why don't you apply directly to a UK/Australian university where you can start your medical degree upon completion of A-levels/STPM and what not? That way, you spend 6 years toward obtaining a medical degree.

In the States, you spend many more years and lots more money. Four years of undergrad + 4 years of medical school + residency before you can practice. Plus, it is extremely competitive to gain admission into med schools in the US. It's probably also true for UK/Australian universities, but for many Americans, a medical profession is a status symbol and many people compete for a limited number of spots. Each medical school offers ~100-200 spots a year and on average, anywhere between 2000 to 5000 people will be vying for those limited spots.

As for your safety net schools, you don't have a lot of choices as an international student. You can only apply to private schools, which are usually the extremely prestigious, and if not, extremely expensive. It costs US$50,000 a year in a private med school. State schools give HIGH priority to state residents since they are funded partially by the state's taxpayers.

I hope I'm not discouraging you. WHo knows, after you go to college in the US, you may decide being a doctor is not for you after all? Or you may persevere and work your ass off for 4 years in order to secure a place in med school? As for costs, you can get loans as an international student although I imagine the interest rates would be extremely high. Still, a doctor is extremely well paid in the US, so you shouldn't worry about being poor for the rest of your life! :)

On the other hand, I strongly recommend that you try to apply for entry into UK/AUstralian universities. I heard that UK universities, being extremely strapped for cash, make it easier for foreign nationals to gain entry if you can afford to pay tuition fees. THere is financial aid for international students at Harvard and Yale but you are looking at 200 spots (for 10,000 competitive students who apply)

Good luck!

[James_Padfoot]

masdie, aquila, thank you for your very square comments. Very much the truth, however I confess to being stubborn headed. Not a very good thing, but I honestly thank you guys for advising and reminding me.

I am pretty darned sure I cant afford going to the UK, if going to the States is bad enough, I wonder how the Euro currency will kill my mum. (Kid of a single parent here XD)

I know what the stakes are, to get admitted into Ivy Leagues, you have to be Cr?me de la Cr?me. It's insane really, but I have this burning fire to achieve it.

How do you think I should work my way into making this goal a reality, and as mentioned previously, I should have safety nets. Where do you recommend this safety nets lie?

[aquila]

Safety nets are less competitive schools. Research on US NEws and World Report

[James_Padfoot]

*nods* Aye, I know what they mean, I should have worded myself properly. Which of the schools would you recommend as safety nets? is what I meant to ask.

[aquila]

it depends on the individual right? i know ppl have applied to penn state, ohio state, wisconsin madison as safety nets

[Patrick]

Come on, Padfoot. If you want to do medicine, apply for JPA.
JPA doesn't send everyone to Indonesia. They do send people to the UK, Ireland, India, Australia, New Zealand, and Indonesia to study medicine.

If you think you have got what it takes to get into Ivy Leagues, I suppose that you can easily obtain a scholarship to the UK, since you find Indonesia not competitive. But seriously, many smart people are going to Indonesia, and they have Gadjah Mada, I suppose a university with better standards than UM for medicine.

[masdie]

Come on, Padfoot. If you want to do medicine, apply for JPA.
JPA doesn't send everyone to Indonesia. They do send people to the UK, Ireland, India, Australia, New Zealand, and Indonesia to study medicine.

If you think you have got what it takes to get into Ivy Leagues, I suppose that you can easily obtain a scholarship to the UK, since you find Indonesia not competitive. But seriously, many smart people are going to Indonesia, and they have Gadjah Mada, I suppose a university with better standards than UM for medicine.

Each individual should have his/her own choice and opinion.

You have no idea how JPA selects their scholars. Strings of A1s, being active in cca, and a good interview doesn't necessarily guarantee you a JPA scholarship.

If I have the brains to do medicine, I would personally prefer the US as I feel the US has a better training system and offers better opportunities. But if you ask me about other courses, I'll still recommend US, heh, pretty biased me.

[Patrick]

Come on, Padfoot. If you want to do medicine, apply for JPA.
JPA doesn't send everyone to Indonesia. They do send people to the UK, Ireland, India, Australia, New Zealand, and Indonesia to study medicine.

If you think you have got what it takes to get into Ivy Leagues, I suppose that you can easily obtain a scholarship to the UK, since you find Indonesia not competitive. But seriously, many smart people are going to Indonesia, and they have Gadjah Mada, I suppose a university with better standards than UM for medicine.

Each individual should have his/her own choice and opinion.

You have no idea how JPA selects their scholars. Strings of A1s, being active in cca, and a good interview doesn't necessarily guarantee you a JPA scholarship.

If I have the brains to do medicine, I would personally prefer the US as I feel the US has a better training system and offers better opportunities. But if you ask me about other courses, I'll still recommend US, heh, pretty biased me.

Well, you won't get anything if you sit there and do nothing. Just give it a try, you won't lose anything.

[apple_dot]

To study medic in the states, u have to be a degree holder. But there's another way out if u want to save time.

Do SAM programme in malaysia, then enter IMU ( international medical university ) in Bukit Jalil. And if your results are really very good, you can enter US jefferson's uni after 2.5 years here in IMU. That means your clinical years will be in jefferson.

With this, you can graduate in US as a dr, without a degree.

[James_Padfoot]

Patrick, I appreciate your opinion, but I honestly no longer have faith in the Malaysian system. I have my reasons (meaning I can't talk about it. Merph, what freedom of speech? -___-).

Anyway, I am really keen in going to the States. It's no the grass is greener thing, I just want to go there and realize my dreams better with better education. Something I know will give me the experience and all round knowledge.

Of course, I have not ruled out IMU, which is not easy to get into either.

Appledot, Masdie, thanks. But Maside, what do you mean without a degree?

[youngyew]

Patrick, I appreciate your opinion, but I honestly no longer have faith in the Malaysian system. I have my reasons (meaning I can't talk about it. Merph, what freedom of speech? -___-).

Anyway, I am really keen in going to the States. It's no the grass is greener thing, I just want to go there and realize my dreams better with better education. Something I know will give me the experience and all round knowledge.

Of course, I have not ruled out IMU, which is not easy to get into either.

Appledot, Masdie, thanks. But Maside, what do you mean without a degree?
James Padfoot, I admire your determination and preparedness to face the hardship in order to realise your dreams. But I would like to share with you that some medical courses offered in United Kingdom and Australia are equally prestigious with most US medical courses. If better education, more exposure and alternative world-view is all you want, Australia and United Kingdom would be good alternatives. Of course I am not trying to convert you here, I would just want you to leave them as your safety net.

If studying in US is really your dream, I suggest doing post-graduate studies there. This is what my sister and brother-in-law are doing, after finishing their medical undergraduate in UM.

I would just say, whatever you do, aim for the star, but don't forget the ground you are standing on. :)

[masdie]

But Maside, what do you mean without a degree?

Are you calling for me? What did I say about 'without a degree'?

I think you're refering to apple_dot's IMU post.

To study medic in the states, u have to be a degree holder. But there's another way out if u want to save time.

Do SAM programme in malaysia, then enter IMU ( international medical university ) in Bukit Jalil. And if your results are really very good, you can enter US jefferson's uni after 2.5 years here in IMU. That means your clinical years will be in jefferson.

With this, you can graduate in US as a dr, without a degree.

I am not an IMU student so you'd be better off consulting one.

But what I briefly know about IMU is that they complete 5 semesters of preclinical studies and then they go for a matching exercise where they're matched to PMS-es (PMS=Partner Medical School eg: Jefferson, Glasgow, Melbourne etc). So you will complete your clinical studies in your respective PMS. At the end of the day, you will graduate with a medical degree from your PMS. Or you can choose to stay in IMU's Seremban campus and graduate with an MBBS (IMU). There are quite a number of IMU students who transfered to Canadian and US PMS and are currently working in US.

So if you go to IMU, you can forget about getting a college degree and still go into Canadian or American med school. But if you want to go for a full American package, then you'll have to have a college degree.

[masdie]

But I would like to share with you that some medical courses offered in United Kingdom and Australia are equally prestigious with most US medical courses. If better education, more exposure and alternative world-view is all you want, Australia and United Kingdom would be good alternatives. Of course I am not trying to convert you here, I would just want you to leave them as your safety net.

UK and Australian medical schools are expensive and they do not usually offer grants/scholarships that help you pay for the full tuition fees or your living expenses. They do help, but I think it's either too little or too limited so your parents would have to chip in quite a sum of money.

American colleges are pretty generous, but that depends on which college you're applying to. However I wonder if American med schools offer financial aids? Do they? This I have no idea. Aquila?

I would just say, whatever you do, aim for the star, but don't forget the ground you are standing on. :)

This is why I never aim for anything. To me, the higher you aim, the worse your dissappointment. This is why I am still the loser I always am.

[youngyew]

But I would like to share with you that some medical courses offered in United Kingdom and Australia are equally prestigious with most US medical courses. If better education, more exposure and alternative world-view is all you want, Australia and United Kingdom would be good alternatives. Of course I am not trying to convert you here, I would just want you to leave them as your safety net.

UK and Australian medical schools are expensive and they do not usually offer grants/scholarships that help you pay for the full tuition fees or your living expenses. They do help, but I think it's either too little or too limited so your parents would have to chip in quite a sum of money.

American colleges are pretty generous, but that depends on which college you're applying to. However I wonder if American med schools offer financial aids? Do they? This I have no idea. Aquila?
Alright, that's the part that I overlooked. It's true that studying medicine in Australia comes with a huge financial burden, and the tuition + living cost is about ranges from 700K ringgit (e.g. Monash University) to 900K ringgit (e.g. Melbourne University). The universities don't provide any grants or bursaries, except for a few outstanding students in the whole course.

I am not sure about financial aid in UK universities, though. A fellow recommer, Tab is now doing medicine in Cambridge though, so you may want to PM him. But he's been rather in active for some time, so you might need to wait. Hope this helps.

[James_Padfoot]

Masdie, I apologize for the mistake. XD Teehee. And thank you for the clarification.

Youngyew, I crossed of UK/Australia because of the financial burdens. Tuition + living costs would drive me into the ground.

I'm mildy curious... our fellow Re-commers, that study medicine in foreign countries (esp US and UK & Australia) do they return to practice or do they take up residency there?

[zanzraj]

i dunno is any of u mention bout this before but i was wondering ... i m also keen to go us to study medicine espically john hopkins ... but like its said that its practically impossible for an international student ... so lets say i take the adp ( american degree transfer program ) ( i m takin spm this year ) after i get my results. ... i would go to us after a few years of studying ..... then study summore ... would it help my chances to be accepted into a us uni ?

[masdie]

i m also keen to go us to study medicine espically john hopkins

Err...good luck?? Btw, its Johns Hopkins.

so lets say i take the adp ( american degree transfer program ) ( i m takin spm this year ) after i get my results. ... i would go to us after a few years of studying ..... then study summore ... would it help my chances to be accepted into a us uni ?

As long as you have a college degree and you score your MCAT, you can apply for med school. Though I'm not sure if they recognise overseas college degrees.

[newell]

do we need to sit for the SAT 1 & 2 as well as MCAT in order for us to gain admission into a medical school in the USA?
Thanks! :)

[newell]

Could anyone enlighten me on the procedures and paths that one should take to get into a med school in the States, especially Harvard and those top-notch unis? Thank u...