Affordable Universities/ Colleges and Scholarships

[nalgene87]

Applying to study abroad can be a tough thing and having been through the tedious process, I am here to help you and others who have aspirations of studying abroad so as to basically escape from our dear public and private universities without costing you a bomb!

1. American Institutions

American universities and colleges can be costly. But there are always ways to help fund a US education. One particular way is the financial aid program that exist in many colleges in the United States.

Below are some of the colleges that offers GENEROUS financial aid to international students (I know many people know about these colleges... but I thought I will just consolidate all the information I know):
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Dartmouth
Brown
Duke
Washington University in St. Louis
Northwestern
University of California ? Berkeley (Not exactly financial aid. But there's this scholarship I know internationals are eligible for)
Brandeis

The following are liberal arts colleges:
Williams
Amherst
Swarthmore
Middlebury
Most of the Sister's colleges
Kenyon :)
Carleton
Wesleyan University (Check out the Freeman Asian Scholarship)
Vassar
Colby
Bates
Mount Holyoke
Oberlin (not really generous.. gives out loans of USD 5000 but offer aid to lots of internationals)
Lafayette
Connecticut College
Bard College (I know a Malaysian who was admitted with a USD 42000 scholarship a year! WOW)
Franklin and Marshall
Macalester (Not really generous but decent)

Less selective LACs but do offer financial aid...
Furman
Sewanee - University of the South
Allegheny College
Wabash College (Men's LAC)
Lawrence University

You can refer to the following website for more information:
http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/reac-europe/intfinaid_awards.html (Website offering a list of schools that provide great financial aid for international students)

http://www.rjc.edu.sg/usapps/ (This website is really good!!! It tells you about everything you need to know about applying to schools in the US and there's a "Success List" which shows you the success rate of Singapore students applying to the States)

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com (A forum relating to studying in the States)

2. UK Institutions
I know that University of Southampton offers 2 full scholarships to internationals each year studying MATHEMATICS... Yes, it's really limited.

Check out http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk for more information!


3. University College Utrecht and Roosevelt Academy in the Netherlands
These two colleges are modelled after the Liberal Arts concept in the States. They are very academic intense and are really affordable due to subsidies in their higher education by the Dutch government. All instructions are in English.

Refer to http://www.studyin.nl
http://www.ucu.uu.nl and http://www.rooseveltacademy.org

4. Singapore Institutions - National University of Singapore, Nanyang Technological University and Singapore Management University (SMU)
These three universities are great and affordable. Tuition fees after tuition grants is around SGD 7000 and you have the option of geting more financing through interest-free loans upon graduation.

SMU is modelled after UPenn's Wharton Business School and Carnegie Mellon University. It offers an American style curriculum and small seminars instead of your 500 people in a lecture theatre kind of education.

OK, I hope that helps. Any questions/contributions are welcome although I think I might have limited knowledge.

[Thirdshifter]

Maybe you should the Education Road trip this summer.. Read more here on how to join http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3443#75176

[bert]

that's a pretty darn impressive list.

Just wanted to add a few comments.

Northwestern - I heard it's very stingy with intl students. Otherwise I wud have applied there. Plus you need to compete with many JPA students who apply there who do not need financial aid.

Brandeis - Thought of applying there too, but fin aid wasn't attractive.

LACs

Adding to the list, do check out:

Lewis and Clark
Luther College
Bowdoin College
Colgate University
Grinnell College

Swarthmore - not very much financial aid there either
Macalester - one of the very rich ones, my impression was that it gives out a lot money. Practically my whole school applied there.

[nalgene87]

Macalester - one of the very rich ones, my impression was that it gives out a lot money. Practically my whole school applied there.

Macalester's financial aid is not really impressive. There are only a few "full rides" awarded each year.

[johnleemk]

Damn, Swarthmore's financial aid sucks? It was one of my target LACs. :cry:

[nalgene87]

No worries John! As long as the LAC does offer financial aid, it doesnt matter! If you're good, Swarthmore will want you! :D

[el_empty]

Wesleyan University's Freeman Asian Scholarship
Full: tuition + room/board + stipend

http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/international/freeman.html

[bert]

oh yeah, do consider Deep Springs College www.deepsprings.eduif you're hardcore. Really selective school and very hard to get in. It's totally free and many of the people there get to go to the most selective schools after that.

[lyzzy]

Swarthmore's financial aid is pretty okay, imho. But their admission rate for internationals who need aid is lower than the ivies... and that's saying a lot for an LAC.....

Also, the amount of financial aid that a college gives might be misleading.. because some colleges only give only eg 25 full rides, and then the 1000 other international students are like, screwed. Only a small number of students gets financial aid, as opposed some of the other colleges (I name Macalester and Oberlin as examples) who might give slightly less generous aid, but a larger percentage of incoming intls get aid.
So Brown, Duke and Northwestern aren't really *generous*
.... Good list all the same!
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[nalgene87]

http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/overview/intl/

Carleton's Starr Scholarship for students from Asia!! Check that out! Carleton is really an amazing school! :D

[andrewlza]

except that carleton doesn't waive toefl at all.

:)

all the other colleges i applied to did.

[enilit]

0_o I thought Carleton waives toefl--for those who have English as their first language, that is.

[nalgene87]

NUS, foreign varsities offer joint degrees

Sorry for that... anyway.. a brief summary... NUS is teaming up with Yale, Berkeley and 8 other prestigious universities to offer joint degrees program. Yeah, so you only need to pay NUS's tuition instead of the more expensive American Institution's tuition!!


Imagine getting a joint-degree from two of the most prestigious universities on Earth!!

Anyway, I want to add on to the list of colleges (US) that offer financial aid to internationals.

1. Berea College... This is not really well known but offers tuition waivers to ALL admitted students regardless of their residency status.
2. Ohio Wesleyan University - If you able to afford USD 12000, you can apply to that university.
3. This is the same for Bucknell... that is you need to be able to at least afford USD 12000 a year!!

[jiinjoo]

<aside>nalgene87, just a gentle reminder that it's not ok to copy and paste entire news articles onto the forum. We have been pestered by the press before for doing so. If you want you can summaries it / use the title and first paragraph, then paste the link to the article so that we can read the rest of it. :wink: In your case, you didn't even put the source link, that is a no no. :o
</aside>

[enilit]

Oh, there's the Jardine scholarships for Oxbridge as well. :)

[Larry]

After considering the financial aid for NUS(Singapore University), I stil need to fork out a large sum of money, tht is around RM100000(including 3 yr living cost n other miscellaneous fees), it is stil costly for me. As our currency is so weak, the cost for studying in other countries like US n UK using my own money remain dreams for me as both of my parents cant afford it.......Any wise suggestions?

[Dr_Tay]

My advice is don't go abroad for your studies. It is probably better to work full time and put yourself through night school after gaining two years experience. Some Masters programs enrol you on the basis of experience and basic school leaving qualifications. Why waste money on going to Western unis and later still find out that the job that is waiting for you pays you less than you had expected and by that time you might as some UK grads found out to their horrors that they have to declare bankruptcy.

Secondly, most institutions in the West are strapped for cash even for their own citizens, why would they want to spend money on a foreigner whom might not be a good investment with the exception that you are just simply out of this world brilliant i.e. better than those students in the West.

[bush]

My advice is don't go abroad for your studies. It is probably better to work full time and put yourself through night school after gaining two years experience. Some Masters programs enrol you on the basis of experience and basic school leaving qualifications. Why waste money on going to Western unis and later still find out that the job that is waiting for you pays you less than you had expected and by that time you might as some UK grads found out to their horrors that they have to declare bankruptcy.

Secondly, most institutions in the West are strapped for cash even for their own citizens, why would they want to spend money on a foreigner whom might not be a good investment with the exception that you are just simply out of this world brilliant i.e. better than those students in the West.

What if larry manages to secure a scholarship to study in a top school?

I suppose you are not generalising when you say western unis, right?

[lyzzy]

Secondly, most institutions in the West are strapped for cash even for their own citizens, why would they want to spend money on a foreigner whom might not be a good investment with the exception that you are just simply out of this world brilliant i.e. better than those students in the West.

Strapped for cash? I don't suppose that Harvard's US 22 billion (in 2004) endowment is a meager amount right? Or Yale's US 12 billion can't be too little either. Plus a lot of these schools actually pay you to study there...

Even schools that most Malaysians have never heard of (but are pretty good in their own right) have a huge endowment. For example, Wellesley has an endowment of US 1.2 billion.

A lot of top US schools offer very generous financial aid for accepted students... you'll do well to apply for them.
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[nalgene87]

As I have mentioned in my first post, there are MANY opportunities for you to study abroad and many colleges listed on the first page offers you scholarships/financial aid package that cover the total cost of studying!!

I know that HYP is need-blind, but those schools are freaking hard to get in. That doesnt mean you should stop yourself from applying to these schools! There are other (safer) options available for you too. Many Liberal Arts Colleges... (hmmm, if you are not familiar with these colleges, just think of colleges for the rich kids with really nice facilities and food :lol:) offer financial aid for international students. And the fact that you are first-generation college applicant/ low-income/ Malaysian will make you a hook. Yeah, these LACs are generally unknown outside of US, but they offer excellent graduate school placement and great academics. If your idea of an undergrad school is a college not for you to boast but to get a excellent education, you should really consider these Liberal Arts Colleges!

And even for NUS, it offers tuition grant for all accepted students and interest-free loans/ scholarships (from both NUS and other local organizations like DBS, OCBC). Never never let the cost of a foreign higher education deter you from studying abroad. Oh well, I saw today's newspaper... looks like our local mediocre universities are raising their school fees as well in a bid to become more autonomous. :twisted:

And Dr Tay, for your information, colleges in the States VALUE DIVERSITY, i.e. they want students not only from different ethnicity but also from different socio-economic backgrounds. It's not just because it's the right thing to do, but it enables the college to provide an education that is more appropriate for the 21st century. And how do they do that? The only way is to provide NEED-BASED financial aid for international students and minority students.

[bush]

let us just excuse Dr Tay for it seems that he/she is on a crusade against foreign universities........

[Larry]

What my cousin told me was ask me to study in local if i failed to secure a scholarship. After that, i will do my master programme overseas as it cut down a lot of cost.Does it sound better? But for me, i dun think it is a good idea as i dun wan to do form 6(u only can be admitted to local U if u studied either f6 or matriculation).(Reasons y not f6 : time consuming compare to other options, tougher as it is exam oriented n what i dislike most is i had to study PA if i do my f6)
Therefore, i think that it will be better if i can further my studies abroad.The education offered in overseas is more quality,solid which enables graduate become more employable.

Nagline, it is really tough to secure scholarships from US as it is competitive globally........ :cry:

[nalgene87]

What my cousin told me was ask me to study in local if i failed to secure a scholarship. After that, i will do my master programme overseas as it cut down a lot of cost.Does it sound better? But for me, i dun think it is a good idea as i dun wan to do form 6(u only can be admitted to local U if u studied either f6 or matriculation).(Reasons y not f6 : time consuming compare to other options, tougher as it is exam oriented n what i dislike most is i had to study PA if i do my f6)
Therefore, i think that it will be better if i can further my studies abroad.The education offered in overseas is more quality,solid which enables graduate become more employable.

Nagline, it is really tough to secure scholarships from US as it is competitive globally........ :cry:

Larry, it is possible to attend NUS, SMU or NTU if you are admitted and you do not have the financial ability to pay for your higher education. Like I've said before, you will definitely qualify for no interest loans, bursaries and such even after taking into account the tuition grant provided by SG Government.

You have got it right; most tertiary education abroad are more reputable and their quality of student intakes are much better than our tertiary institutions (But then again, this depends on what universities you go to). NUS/NTU and SMU definitely offer you quality education at a affordable rate. In fact, SMU is well known for the fact that all their graduates receive a job within 6 months after their graduation. You should make an attempt to pay for your undergraduate education even by taking out loans (obviously I am not asking you to take out USD 45000 that sort of loans, but SG's Universities fees are really affordable.) If you want to do a good quality Master's Program abroad, you will need to start from your Undergraduate Education.

And about US admissions, how about you view it this way: Assuming that each private college takes in around 20 students each year with financial aid. Multiply that with 40 colleges. How many students with financial aid get into US colleges each year?? 800? That's a LOT, and I am sure my estimation is pretty modest. Yeah, you never know unless you try and apply for it.

First of all, subscribe yourself to the college's mailing list that you are interested in. And sometime soon, colleges will start sending you beautiful prospectus that you can start collecting! :lol: Some colleges will send you more mails than others (Oh well, I've got lots of mails from Colgate University and Dickinson College - 2 schools which I didnt apply to eventually). And later in the year, some colleges will contact you for interviews if the Dean of Admissions or the representative from the college is coming to visit your country. Both Kenyon College and Colby College emailed me telling me that representatives will be coming down to Penang and Singapore for school visits and interviews. Yup, schedule an interview with them!! I can't help but say how important an interview is. It lets the person making the final decision know you personally. In fact, it is always easier to send a rejection letter to a stranger than to someone whom the Dean knows personally. :wink:

And of course, show that you are really very very interested in that college. Read guidebooks about the colleges you are interested in. I can recommend a few, i.e. www.studentsreview.com, www.princetonreview.com and www.collegeprowler.com. Yes, ask the admissions regarding financial aid and other questions pertaining to the college. You will usually come out wiser and thus can make a better college choice! :lol: Yup, good luck while you are going through this arduous process! Feel free to ask me any questions regarding admissions/ Kenyon College. Will be happy to try my best to provide you with the answers!

[nalgene87]

My advice is don't go abroad for your studies. It is probably better to work full time and put yourself through night school after gaining two years experience. Some Masters programs enrol you on the basis of experience and basic school leaving qualifications. Why waste money on going to Western unis and later still find out that the job that is waiting for you pays you less than you had expected and by that time you might as some UK grads found out to their horrors that they have to declare bankruptcy.

Dr Tay, the Masters programs that you've mentioned, i.e. they "enrol you on the basis of experience and basic school leaving qualifications" leave much to be desired. I doubt any Masters programs that enrol you on the basis of experience will add much value to your portfolio. And so why waste your money on that? Instead, you might as well go to a good undergraduate college and get into a decent Masters program.

And which universities are you refering to when you said "some UK grads..."? I think that if you graduate from a decent UK university like Warwick, you are going to get a decent job. Of course, that is not to say that you waste all your three/four years in Unis partying year-round!!

[Larry]

Thanks nalgene for your advice. Another problem pertaining this matter is that do u think it is worth for us to fork out such a large sum of money to get the degree if you plan to work locally since the pay is more or less the same for the local or overseas graduates? (This is what my parents ask me)

For me, i think that it is worth as the quality of of eduacation offered in overseas is more quality n others benefits......

[nalgene87]

Oh well, that's a tricky question... I dont know about the rest but for me, I've never thought of coming back to work in Malaysia, perhaps when I am going to retire or something, I may come back to Malaysia under the "M'sia - My Second Home" plan or something! :lol:

For UK/US/Australia education (i.e. self-financing), I wouldnt think it's such a good bargain compare to a Singapore/Canadian education. But I would always want to think that you will be paid a competitive salary if you graduate from a good university abroad with the necessary critical thinking/writing skills!

[bush]

Oh well, that's a tricky question... I dont know about the rest but for me, I've never thought of coming back to work in Malaysia, perhaps when I am going to retire or something, I may come back to Malaysia under the "M'sia - My Second Home" plan or something! :lol:

For UK/US/Australia education (i.e. self-financing), I wouldnt think it's such a good bargain compare to a Singapore/Canadian education. But I would always want to think that you will be paid a competitive salary if you graduate from a good university abroad with the necessary critical thinking/writing skills!

You better to give some thought to it as it seems that there is a qouta in place for employing internationals in the States. Even if they do not have such a policy, there is always a chance that you might not get a job there.

[nalgene87]

Oh well, that's a tricky question... I dont know about the rest but for me, I've never thought of coming back to work in Malaysia, perhaps when I am going to retire or something, I may come back to Malaysia under the "M'sia - My Second Home" plan or something! :lol:

For UK/US/Australia education (i.e. self-financing), I wouldnt think it's such a good bargain compare to a Singapore/Canadian education. But I would always want to think that you will be paid a competitive salary if you graduate from a good university abroad with the necessary critical thinking/writing skills!

You better to give some thought to it as it seems that there is a qouta in place for employing internationals in the States. Even if they do not have such a policy, there is always a chance that you might not get a job there.

Thanks Bush. Because of your existing policies, you make life harder for me, and many other aspiring M'sians who wish to work abroad. :lol:

Yep, I know. Even if I return, I will end up in Singapore, I think. It's just not "possible" or hard for me to return to Malaysia since I have spent all my life somewhere else and thus, I dont really know much about the situation here in Malaysia. That being said, I am still trying to adapt to life here by learning BM!! :lol:

And I must say that our government pejabat is pretty efficient nowadays!! Making a IC is much much less a hassle nowadays! Great job!

[nalgene87]

YAY!! My friend got into Mount Holyoke College on a full ride under ED II!

So you see, it's always worth the effort put in. :lol:

[Tasslehoff]

wow! congrats to your friend :)

*anxiously awaits the dreaded results due in March... Sigh*

[nalgene87]

Hi people, in case if you dont know, most financial aid packages will come with a modest loan of a few thousand USD a year. And I just found out that there's a loan forgiveness clause for most top colleges that states that if you are returning to your home country (a 3rd world one I think), your loan will be forgiven. But if you plan to stay on in the States, then :lol: you will have to pay back those loans!

[faceythingy]

Was wondering are there any colleges in the States or in the UK that's offering 100% scholarships for international students? Just for the tuition fees, books and accomodation is enough. I think food and other needs are not much of a problem as we can always apply for a small sum of loan from our local banks or JPA if our parents cant afford it. At least that way we dont hafta apply for loans reaching up to MYR100k or so right?

[bush]

Was wondering are there any colleges in the States or in the UK that's offering 100% scholarships for international students? Just for the tuition fees, books and accomodation is enough. I think food and other needs are not much of a problem as we can always apply for a small sum of loan from our local banks or JPA if our parents cant afford it. At least that way we dont hafta apply for loans reaching up to MYR100k or so right?

Count UK out. No universities in the UK offer financial aid or scholarships to international students. Even if they do, it would be at most GBP 3k off your entire tuition fees(roughly GBP 60k).

You would have a better chance in the US, but then again, the aid package varies a lot from one institution to the other.

Even if you are getting a loan to pay for your living expenses, you may just need roughly RM 100k for the 3/4 years there........

[nalgene87]

I think it's almost impossible for colleges to offer 100% scholarships. Colleges do offer financial aid covering to full ride, but at the same time, they expect you to take out loans that go towards your education (around USD 2000-5000 a year, depending on the college). As a rule of thumb, there are more "scholarships" (they dont call it scholarships... call it need-based financial aid) in the States because universities in the States are more endowed than in UK, although I know of a friend who's got full tuition fee waiver over at Southampton. A full financial aid package will cover tuition fees, room and board (food) (i.e. direct expenses). I think you will have to fork out money to pay for the indirect expenses like air ticket, books and supplies and such.

Oh yes, I've forgotten about Wesleyan's Freeman Asian Scholarship Program, which covers everything... including 1 return air ticket. But I do know that they have a condition that requires you to return home to Malaysia to serve the public. Yep, noble cause!

[nalgene87]

Just want to add to the list... countries that offer free education...

Sweden http://www.studyinsweden.se
Norway http://www.studyinnorway.no

From the two websites about, you can definitely conclude that Sweden and Norway are rivals somehow... :lol:

Yep, Germany also offer free education. Check out http://www.daad.de

By the way, if you think that you'll need to study a foreign language before you embark on your studies in these countries, do know that Jonkoping International Business School offer a business degree, economics degree and an informatics degree all in the English Language Medium and all FOC. http://www.ihh.hj.se/doc/1602[/url]

[pucman]

What about new york university ?

Are there any financial aid without co-signer in american universities ?

[nalgene87]

What about new york university ?

Are there any financial aid without co-signer in american universities ?

Sorry, but New York University doesnt offer financial aid to international students. In fact, it is pretty stingy with the domestic students also.

From the collegeboard.com: NYU has got a total of ~36000 students (inclusive of 16000 graduate students). And with an endowment of just 1.5 billion, it is almost impossible for NYU to offer financial aid to international students. Moreover, cost of living at NYC is pretty high... room and board will easily cost you USD 11000 whilst Kenyon's room and board is only USD 5700. See the difference?

Yes, you dont need a co-signer to get financial aid from american colleges. Check out the first page... it basically have a list of colleges that offer good financial aid packages to international students. As a rule of thumb, these schools are usually well endowed (in terms of endowment per student).

[naoj]

Berkeley does give out scholarships to internationals. My friend is on a full ride here, Malaysian guy.

[naoj]

Was wondering are there any colleges in the States or in the UK that's offering 100% scholarships for international students? Just for the tuition fees, books and accomodation is enough. I think food and other needs are not much of a problem as we can always apply for a small sum of loan from our local banks or JPA if our parents cant afford it. At least that way we dont hafta apply for loans reaching up to MYR100k or so right?

There is a list of need blind US universities that give u full aid as long as u get in and qualify for aid (meaning ur parents income is below $45k a month)...harvard, yale, mit, princeton, middlebury to name a few. Ask lyzzy for the full list she knows.

[lyzzy]

Was wondering are there any colleges in the States or in the UK that's offering 100% scholarships for international students? Just for the tuition fees, books and accomodation is enough. I think food and other needs are not much of a problem as we can always apply for a small sum of loan from our local banks or JPA if our parents cant afford it. At least that way we dont hafta apply for loans reaching up to MYR100k or so right?

There is a list of need blind US universities that give u full aid as long as u get in and qualify for aid (meaning ur parents income is below $45k a month)...harvard, yale, mit, princeton, middlebury to name a few. Ask lyzzy for the full list she knows.

Yup, 100% financial aid (covers tuition, living expenses ... everything) are available in a lot of universities in the States. If your parents make less than RM14 500 per month (everything else being equal), you automatically get a full ride at Yale. Similar policies (but less generous ones) exist in other universities.

Also, scholarships and financial aid in the States are two different things... Scholarships tend to give much less money (on a whole), and it's limited too. If you are looking to finance your education in the States, look out for financial aid, not scholarships.

Financial aid can be made up of a lot of aspects, but (usually), financial aid means a small loan ($5000 at most), and the rest is a grant (no need to pay back)...

You should read these two articles, and if you have any other questions, feel free to email me.

http://tinkosong.blogspot.com/2006/02/yale-university-need-based-need-blind.html
http://tinkosong.blogspot.com/2005/11/spm-stpm-us-its-not-end.html
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[nalgene87]

Princeton University has the best financial aid policy among all the universities in the States despite her relatively smaller endowment compared to Harvard and Yale. There are no loans offered regardless of whether your family's need reaches a threshold income. Yes, so definitely have a look into Princeton University!!

[lyzzy]

Princeton University has the best financial aid policy among all the universities in the States despite her relatively smaller endowment compared to Harvard and Yale. There are no loans offered regardless of whether your family's need reaches a threshold income. Yes, so definitely have a look into Princeton University!!

Pton might not require its students to take out loans, but their financial package might be significantly less generous.

While Yale and Harvard will definitely offer 100% financial aid if a family earns less than $45 000 and $40 000 a year respectively, Pton does not have a similar policy - they might only offer 80%, 90% (or whatever their calculations stipulate) if a family earns $45 000 a year.

That being said, an international student applying for financial aid should apply to all three schools, simply because it maximizes your chances and lets you choose the best package.
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[nalgene87]

LOL... I am just wondering Lyzzy... do you ever sleep??? Haha. It's I guess 4.55am in US... and you are still awake??

And oh btw, I quote this from www.princeton.edu,

"Firmly committed to equality of opportunity, Princeton admits undergraduate students without regard to their financial circumstances and provides student grants and campus jobs to meet the full demonstrated financial needs of all undergraduate students offered admission. Princeton students are not required to take out loans. This policy applies to both domestic and international applicants."

So I believe that Princeton meets 100% of a student's demonstrated need. I mean even Kenyon meets 100% of a student's demonstrated need despite being miles apart from Princeton (as in not the literal sense... :lol:) So unless one understates his/her family's financial circumstances, I do believe that you will get whatever you want, without loans at Princeton.

[lyzzy]

LOL... I am just wondering Lyzzy... do you ever sleep??? Haha. It's I guess 4.55am in US... and you are still awake??

And oh btw, I quote this from www.princeton.edu,

"Firmly committed to equality of opportunity, Princeton admits undergraduate students without regard to their financial circumstances and provides student grants and campus jobs to meet the full demonstrated financial needs of all undergraduate students offered admission. Princeton students are not required to take out loans. This policy applies to both domestic and international applicants."

So I believe that Princeton meets 100% of a student's demonstrated need. I mean even Kenyon meets 100% of a student's demonstrated need despite being miles apart from Princeton (as in not the literal sense... :lol:) So unless one understates his/her family's financial circumstances, I do believe that you will get whatever you want, without loans at Princeton.

That's where you are mistaken... 100% demonstrated need depends on the university's calculations of what your need is. YOU yourself do not calculate what your need is. The university will decide whether you need 100% financial aid on the total fees, or whether you need 50% or whether you need whatever. Though they will meet that sum, they can stipulate how much your need is.

(another devious tactic by universities)

But Yale and Harvard promises that if you meet a certain condition, they will provide you 100% of your total fees.

I guess you are confusing between meeting 100% need and 100% off the total fees.

Example: my financial package varied a LOT (by ten thousand dollars) between all the universities who had promised to meet 100% of my need (let's say it's $20 000). While they fulfilled their promise, they could decide what my need is. Some said that it was $30, 000, some said it was $10 000. And then they cover the rest of the total cost.

Once again, universities use cunning tactics to try to attract students - so you should always read behind the hype.
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[strikingstar]

Okay, most schools in the US are need-blind, meaning they provide financial aid equivalent to demonstrated need. However, these schools are need-blind only to the Americans and sometimes the Canadians and Mexicans as well.
The only 6 schools that are need-blind to international students are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Middlebury and Williams. Any international applicant accepted into these schools will be provided with financial aid as long as they have requested for the aid and have shown that they need it. I have a friend in Harvard, another friend in MIT and a senior in Yale who pay zilch to study where they are because they have shown full demonstrated need. (Cornell claims to be need-blind to internationals as well but it's very likely they accept an international applicant without providing them aid.)
Some universities (mostly private) provide aid to international students but this is done on a very limited scale. Admissions officers from Brown who came to my school in the past have explained the application process for international students requesting financial aid. Basically, these students are considered separately from the rest of the applicants. These students are considered only after the students from the main pool of applicants have been selected. Again, the number of these students accepted are limited by whatever amount is left in the school's coffers (after deducting the amount that will be given to the American/Canadian/Mexican citizens).
On the whole, I estimate the number of international students receiving financial aid from top private schools to be around 20 out of the thousands of foreigners who apply every year. This effectively means that the acceptance rate for such students is far lower than the already low acceptance rate for the top private schools. (LACs tend to be slightly more generous towards foreigners from certain regions of the world because these regions tend to be under-represented and the LAC is looking to increase the variety of its student body by accepting more of such students.)
Still, don't despair if you're applying for financial aid. The hope is still there no matter how small a glimmer it is. As long as you're one of those outstanding applicants, the university won't deny you.

[lyzzy]

(Cornell claims to be need-blind to internationals as well but it's very likely they accept an international applicant without providing them aid.)

Cornell is not need blind towards international students - stake my life on this!! I think it's somewhere in fine print on the website...
________
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[nalgene87]

That's where you are mistaken... 100% demonstrated need depends on the university's calculations of what your need is. YOU yourself do not calculate what your need is. The university will decide whether you need 100% financial aid on the total fees, or whether you need 50% or whether you need whatever. Though they will meet that sum, they can stipulate how much your need is.

(another devious tactic by universities)

But Yale and Harvard promises that if you meet a certain condition, they will provide you 100% of your total fees.

I guess you are confusing between meeting 100% need and 100% off the total fees.

Example: my financial package varied a LOT (by ten thousand dollars) between all the universities who had promised to meet 100% of my need (let's say it's $20 000). While they fulfilled their promise, they could decide what my need is. Some said that it was $30, 000, some said it was $10 000. And then they cover the rest of the total cost.

Once again, universities use cunning tactics to try to attract students - so you should always read behind the hype.

Oh all right, in that case, I think Kenyon is pretty generous at giving financial aid to international students. First of all, in my financial aid application, they actually asked me how much I can afford to pay and whatever I state will be "how much I am going to pay". And the difference between the cost of attendance (includes books, air-tixs and etcetra etcetra..) and "how much I am going to pay" will be my demonstrated need. There is no way Kenyon or any other institutions can calculate your demonstrated need since it's kinda sophisticated to do that. It's you yourself who determines your demonstrated need over at Kenyon, although the admissions officers will tell you that the lower your demonstrated need, the higher your chances of entering the college. Yeah, but I do know of seniors who pay like USD 450 a year (tuition fees... the rest goes towards air fare/books and supplies) to attend Kenyon (from Nepal though).

And yes, Cornell is not need-blind towards internationals... instead it's one of the more stingy ones... If you want to go to Cornell, get a scholarship from e.g. our dear government. And naoj, Berkeley seldom award scholarships to international students. That guy you mentioned, who's my senior, is kinda an exception though and I dont know why... perhaps Berkeley is just too impressed with him?

[lyzzy]

First of all, in my financial aid application, they actually asked me how much I can afford to pay and whatever I state will be "how much I am going to pay".

Actually, most schools ask you for that info... but you will find that it doesn't make a difference, cos they have their own calculations anyway - lol, every year (and everytime) I put $0 as my 'how much I am going to pay', but they do their own calculations and determine how much I should pay (which is far far more than $0 :)). So I usually don't bother filling that up seriously.
Don't know whether Kenyon takes it seriously or not though.. but I know that Macalester does take your estimate seriously. Some people have said that you should put your estimate lower than what you can actually pay, because they will usually raise it anyway...
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[strikingstar]

Definitely, Cornell is not need-blind towards internationals. I guess I should rephrase what I said earlier because what I actually meant was that Cornell is admissions-blind.

[bert]

what is admissions blind?

[strikingstar]

I say Cornell is admissions-blind because Cornell's admissions process is slightly different. It's financial aid processing centre is separate from its admissions committee. Hence, internationals who apply for financial aid are considered in the same pool as the rest of the other applicants. However, once the admissions committee has accepted the foreign student, there is no gurantee that the student will receive aid commensurate to his demonstrated need if he does manage to get any aid in the first place.
Simply put, I know people who requested for aid who were accepted into Cornell but got little or no aid. Other schools will accept an international applicant only and only if they can afford to take the applicant on.

[nalgene87]

Oh yes, I agree with you striking on that...

Hmm, just like to ask a question... does a school's financial aid package includes hmm, like the air ticket, personal expenditures and all that? I.e. if you are asked to pay USD 8000 towards your cost of attendance... do you subtract things like books and supplies/air ticket and such and in the end pay only like ~5800 USD towards tuition?

[naoj]

Oh yes, I agree with you striking on that...

Hmm, just like to ask a question... does a school's financial aid package includes hmm, like the air ticket, personal expenditures and all that? I.e. if you are asked to pay USD 8000 towards your cost of attendance... do you subtract things like books and supplies/air ticket and such and in the end pay only like ~5800 USD towards tuition?

No i dont believe books and airfare are included. i could be wrong though, again wait for lyzzy to reply, she knows these things :)

[andrewlza]

It really depends on which universities you apply to. Some of them do have provisions for this, some don't.

For example, Yale gives every international student a round trip ticket back home annually while Harvard doesn't.

[Avninva]

Hey people i'm currently doing my stpm and i'm interested to study overseas.. currently i'm studying in science stream (bio) and most prolly would take up medicine but at the same time i'm also considering other options. any of you studying abroad? may i know which universities u all are studying in? and wat course are u ppl pursuing? and fo students in m'sia who want to study abroad, e.g if i want to apply for harvard, i would hav to sit for SATs and TOEFLs/IELTS right?? is it really really tough to get in? i need help.. thanks..

[bush]

medicine is a graduate degree.

SATs and sometimes TOEFL is a must besides having consistent high grades.

[strikingstar]

Anyone know any Malaysian who is doing/has done Medicine in the US? Besides being a graduate degree program, relatively very few international students are accepted into Medicine programs in the US and there's no fin-aid for those intl students. Furthermore, if scholars have taken a scholarship with a 6-10 yr bond to pursue their undergrad education overseas, there's hardly any point left in studying to become a doctor at such a late point in life. And then we haven't even begun to consider the years that will be spent for housemanship and specialisation etc.
Don't wanna sound preachy but medicine is a lifetime career choice (unless you quit) so it should be considered carefully. I personally think that the UK, Aussie or even S'pore is a better place to do Medicine. At least you can do Med as an undergrad degree in those places.

[strikingstar]

Avninva, if you're really interested in a Med degree from US, u might wanna consider the Duke-NUS graduate medicine degree. Duke is top 3 in the United States for Medicine though I think the degree will initially be administered by NUS. Still, that might change in the next few years cos this Duke-NUS alliance will only be started next year.

[masdie]

Besides being a graduate degree program, relatively very few international students are accepted into Medicine programs in the US and there's no fin-aid for those intl students.

Very good point. Why does this happen? Because they want to protect their own people! Why give those precious places to foreigners when you can give them to the locals? Unlike M'sia who wants to throw out a few places to foreigners even when there're not enough for their own people just because they want to raise their stupid rankings. Idiots I tell you, idiots!

PS: I know my arguments are flawed. Thank you very much.

[aikws]

I would suggest Avninva to try universities from various countries including US, UK, and Singapore. After that, you can weigh the pros and cons. Well, if you really like to do medicine in US, I see no harm. When there is a will, there is a way. Harvard medical school is damn good.