How to get out of the Malaysia's education system...

[nalgene87]

I don't know but suddenly this thought just strikes me: How many Malaysians who end up in elite universities abroad are actually 100% Buatan Malaysia? The Harvard SCEA girl has spent considerably amount of her time abroad. This is the same for our Dartmouth ED boy.

Last year, there were two Harvard admits and one was from the United Kingdom; the other was from Malaysia (although I have no idea whether he's educated in Malaysia's public schools). It just seems to me that our Malaysian education system is now at a level that can be described as deplorable. Apparently, it seems that even our government can't help much to salvage the situation.

I know of a young friend who is in Primary one now and is attending a Chinese school. Now that the government has made teaching Sciences and Mathematics in English compulsory, many Chinese schools have reluctantly done so. However, at the same time, they "reteach" the curriculum in Mandarin and shorten the English periods to just two periods a week. One hour of learning English a week. How far can these students go? Language is something that we need to use, familiarize ourselves with. Without sufficient practise, how do you expect someone to be proficient at it?

Secondly, there is this really disturbing trend of Malaysian politicians competing to see who is more Islamic. It seems that many think that the more Islamic they are, the more devoted they are to their religion. The BBC has reported that our infastructures in Malaysia is becoming more Arabic, replacing traditional woodwork and handicrafts of indigeneous Malays. In Parliament, politicians hurl insults at each other over comments whether Malaysia is an Islamic state. This is also evident in our education system as many of you know. And despite many complaints, nothing has been done. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I believe that if you can't change it despite so much efforts trying to do so, you should escape from it. For your own good. For your better future. I applaud Johnleemk for being so daring and standing up for the things that he believes in. And I believe that we should help other Malaysians who are trapped in the system to get out of it. As many as possible. I know this sounds ridiculous. But I believe many have lost faith with our education system. It is indeed sad that Malaysians cannot look beyond our skin colours and many are too myopic.

So to people out there who is fortunate enough to be able to venture abroad at such a young age, it will be great if you can shed some light on the possible places one can go to. Yeah, by just providing information (Yes, it's simple as that!) I believe that many fellow Malaysians out there will be able to benefit from it. (I regret not knowing about United World College when I finished my O levels.) For a start, can people who have been to United World College, any other International Schools or Prep Schools like Exeter and Andover tell us more about these schools... the application process, any scholarships and such. Yep, sorry for beating about the bush to get to this.

[bestcreation]

I can empthathize with your feelings. In a way, I escape the Malaysian system too but only after finishing secondary school, which is public, smjk and not located in kl.

The Malaysian education system isn't that bad. You should go look at public schools in the US. I haven't studied in one myself but the general consensus is that they don't even successfully teach you to read and write properly and they are only doing it one language.

I am raising my hand and saying that I am 100% Buatan Malaysia.


Shamelessly plagiarized from el_empty :oops:
Wesleyan University's Freeman Asian Scholarship
Full: tuition + room/board + stipend

http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/international/freeman.html

[Thirdshifter]

Malaysian education is alright in my opinion. Not the best in the world but good enough to produce students that are ready for University.

Recom is a good example. I think 99% of us here are educated in the Malaysian system.

[nalgene87]

Bestcreation: Would you mind sharing where did you go after Secondary School?

Thirdshifter: "But good enough to produce students that are ready for University". Perhaps you are an anomaly. Look at graduates from our Public Universities and you can judge for yourself whether our Malaysian education system is "alright". And also, it seems to me that our government establish a university as though it is opening a coffee shop at the corner of the street. Establishing a university is used as a political agenda during elections!!! Where on Earth are you going to find all the great lecturers and students??? :?: :?: :?: Argh... sometimes I cant help to think what are they thinking when our government makes decisions like this..

[digimushu]

Look at graduates from our Public Universities and you can judge for yourself whether our Malaysian education system is "alright".

Our universities are taking in race horses and putting out mules. The primary and secondary curricula is adequate but not top notch. In short, we are all about making workers, not thinkers.

[nalgene87]

The primary and secondary curricula is adequate but not top notch. In short, we are all about making workers, not thinkers.

Perhaps my comments have been too harsh. But the thought of having just two english periods a week drives me mad! :twisted:

[digimushu]

Everything depends on the school. My secondary school, our teachers teach us the stuff in BM for SPM but also explain some of the terms in English for us. Learning is a self-motivated process. If you don't have the appetite for it, no one can make u do it.

[Thirdshifter]

Bestcreation: Would you mind sharing where did you go after Secondary School?

Thirdshifter: "But good enough to produce students that are ready for University". Perhaps you are an anomaly. Look at graduates from our Public Universities and you can judge for yourself whether our Malaysian education system is "alright". And also, it seems to me that our government establish a university as though it is opening a coffee shop at the corner of the street. Establishing a university is used as a political agenda during elections!!! Where on Earth are you going to find all the great lecturers and students??? :?: :?: :?: Argh... sometimes I cant help to think what are they thinking when our government makes decisions like this..

Just curious, have you ever went and attended a Public university in Malaysia? Ofcourse Malaysian University is no Harvard, but it still possess a good quality education for its students. However, the student that get into these schools are questionable. Some are based on Merit and some other based on race.

Beside that little "glitch" in the public university system, the education you get is not bad at all, i think its comparable to any university in the world.

[digimushu]

Even with all the spoonfeeding?

[Thirdshifter]

Even with all the spoonfeeding?

explain.

[Salvation]

The easiest way is having a millionaire parent who can throw you abroad to study when you are 13 or 17...Else it would be plain hard work and self motivation, as digimushu put it...

[okaywhy]

ooo? Study abroad?

$$$ is the only answer, I suppose?

[el_empty]

what the heck

why's everybody talking about leaving the system and not about improving it?

[digimushu]

Even with all the spoonfeeding?

explain.

We are taught what to think, not how to think. Spoonfeeding, memorization, and regurgitation of facts is what our students seem to have been brought up on.

Look at it this way, I have sat in engineering classes in one of our local universities before, and students dare not ask any questions. They blindly accept all the facts in the notes and on the blackboard, instead of questioning theories to improve understanding.

From: http://www.graduan.com.my/graduan/annuals/2004feature06.taf

Dr Ahmad Sabirin Arshad, former Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) Deputy Dean relates a story that while amusing ?reveals a very worrying trend among undergraduates in local public universities.

?For a final exam, I had repeated some of the questions I had given my students during a monthly exam,he says ?but of course I had rephrased the question so it wouldn?t be a direct repeat.

?My students came up to me after they got the results and said I had asked the wrong question!?

Whilst this incident may initially sound almost ludicrous, it did happen. And probably continues to happen in the corridors of academia.

?This phenomena of spoonfeeding is getting worse in universities, continues Dr Sabirin, ?but I don?t see a solution yet. There is also still leniency in the passing of students. I see many young people who have engineering degrees who shouldn?t be engineers."


Innovators and thinkers come from a society that emphasizes understanding of class materials so to improve upon existing theories. Workers, however, merely learn how to use them.

[andrewlza]

I don't know but suddenly this thought just strikes me: How many Malaysians who end up in elite universities abroad are actually 100% Buatan Malaysia? The Harvard SCEA girl has spent considerably amount of her time abroad. This is the same for our Dartmouth ED boy.

Last year, there were two Harvard admits and one was from the United Kingdom; the other was from Malaysia (although I have no idea whether he's educated in Malaysia's public schools).

1. Yap Xiang Ling, the Harvard ED girl, spent a majority of her education in Malaysia, albeit in GIS. she attained a scholarship to uwc after o lvls.

2. Dartmouth ED boy is from my school. 100% Malaysian public education until spm, after which he applied to uwc and got in with a scholarship.

3. the Harvard admit last year, nick khaw, is also from another Malaysian public school.

people: this goes to show that yes, our education system sucks, but there are exceptional students who rise above their circumstances.

of course, if our system was better we'd see a larger amount of people getting accepted to university.

so in conclusion, your beginning phrases were absolutely wrong, factually. but i understand why you would want to start off that way, so as to lead to a discussion about how sucky the system is.

facts.

1. the malaysian education system is sucky.

2. still, malaysians can still rise above it. shining examples are the above mentioned scholars.

carry on the debate :)

[nalgene87]

Firstly, I wouldnt consider Xiang Ling and others who got into the ivy leagues 100% Buatan Malaysia considering the fact that they have spent some time abroad. In the recent Star published story, Xiang Ling actually said that she felt "more confident" when she is in UWC. Just 2 years abroad and I am sure it has a great impact on her.

That's the same for our Darthmouth ED boy.

why's everybody talking about leaving the system and not about improving it?

All right, tell us how do you think we can improve the system. The DAP has been very critical about our education system. Many have talked about our World History Syllabus. If our government is committed to serving the needs of Malaysians, instead of just achieving their political agendas, our education system would have improved by leaps and bounds. But it hasnt, despite so much criticism.

Learning is a self-motivated process.

But I do believe that the environment that we grow up in affects our appetite for learning. If you have grown in an environment where people play mahjong everyday in the afternoon or who hang out in the coffee shop not doing anything, I am quite sure you will not grow interested in learning.

And yes, I believe that it all depends on your school. Indeed, I came across some really remarkable Malaysians in my two years of JC life in that tiny island :D down south. Some are really motivated and have been topping every single subject in school. But most people whom I have across either have lots of tuition or they have educated parents or parents who have enough foresight who are there to help them navigate through the labyrinth of higher education. Many Malaysians are not as fortunate as them I think.

Ofcourse Malaysian University is no Harvard, but it still possess a good quality education for its students.

I have not attended a Malaysian University before but I reckon that if even the employing of faculties is not based on meritocracy and none of our vice-chancellors in our Malaysian Public Universities are non-Malays, how can our universities still provide a sound education?

[el_empty]

why's everybody talking about leaving the system and not about improving it?

All right, tell us how do you think we can improve the system. The DAP has been very critical about our education system. Many have talked about our World History Syllabus. If our government is committed to serving the needs of Malaysians, instead of just achieving their political agendas, our education system would have improved by leaps and bounds. But it hasnt, despite so much criticism.


Tell you how to improve the system? I can't help but think of that question as a spoonfeeding-request type, ya? :D I don't have all the answers to improve the education system in malaysia, but it's a muchmuchmuch more constructive topic than asking ourselves how do we flee and run away from what we consider a debilitating system and environment.

Why not ask what we can do? DAP's already playing its role in 'criticizing' the establishment. They cannot do much else because they lack the political capital that was (really) stupidly dished out to BN.

Who else did what? M.Bakri Musa wrote a whole book on what can be done.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595265901/104-0940970-4012737?camp=14573&creative=327641&link%5Fcode=as1&n=283155
http://bakrimusa.blogspot.com/

Then there's Drs Azly Rahman and Mutiara Mohammed displayed some actual spine in openly questioning the Akujanji.

Then there's the random Joe who starts a blog to write about education, and gets everyone else to think about the issue as a critical one, not a kopitiam topic
http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/

et cetera

if it's political clout and the so-called political agenda the govt harbors (which govt doesn't?), then it's our prerogative to vote the bad hats out, no?

[DecentMerson]

cross the border? there's a little red dot down South that happily takes u in, as young as after standard 6... but i wouldn't say that their education system is better, just more intense...

[nalgene87]

Tell you how to improve the system? I can't help but think of that question as a spoonfeeding-request type, ya? :D I don't have all the answers to improve the education system in malaysia, but it's a muchmuchmuch more constructive topic than asking ourselves how do we flee and run away from what we consider a debilitating system and environment.

Why not ask what we can do? DAP's already playing its role in 'criticizing' the establishment. They cannot do much else because they lack the political capital that was (really) stupidly dished out to BN.

Who else did what? M.Bakri Musa wrote a whole book on what can be done.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0595265901/104-0940970-4012737?camp=14573&creative=327641&link%5Fcode=as1&n=283155
http://bakrimusa.blogspot.com/

Then there's Drs Azly Rahman and Mutiara Mohammed displayed some actual spine in openly questioning the Akujanji.

Then there's the random Joe who starts a blog to write about education, and gets everyone else to think about the issue as a critical one, not a kopitiam topic
http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/

et cetera

if it's political clout and the so-called political agenda the govt harbors (which govt doesn't?), then it's our prerogative to vote the bad hats out, no?

Yep... see? So many things have been done but it has fallen onto deaf ears. Obviously, we are not able to change something unless Malaysians are bright enough to vote some people out... but I guess that's not really possible in the near future.

What can we do now? We can't sit and wait for the results of our deplorable education system to surface in a few years time... Already signs are showing... So the best thing to do is to help as many Malaysians to go abroad for their education. I am quite sure most of you who have been there realise the difference between the two education systems.

[nick_khaw]

First of all, our Dartmouth ED boy spent his entire primary and secondary school life in a public school. Therefore, he is still a product of our education system, regardless of whether he went overseas or not.

And even if he went overseas to pursue his education, UWC is a private institution. So are Taylor's College, HELP University College etc etc. Their system is not 'buatan Malaysia'. Therefore, what would you consider someone who completes primary and secondary in a public school but did A-Levels in a private institution in Malaysia?

Don't make sweeping statements. nalgene87. I'm in Harvard College. I spent my entire primary and secondary education in a public school. I even had my Prep school in a Govt institution. Therefore, based on what you said "Firstly, I wouldnt consider Xiang Ling and others who got into the ivy leagues 100% Buatan Malaysia considering the fact that they have spent some time abroad.", how do you explain that I got into Harvard? It's clearly not WHERE I STUDIED. I haven't been abroad to study before. I got in, not because I went abroad or I studied locally, but because I am good. As are these students. If you're good enough, where you go isn't that much of a factor. Kids get into Ivy Leagues because they're good.

For your info, in my college 4 out of the last 5 students are 100% Buatan Malaysia. Primary, Secondary and Prep school in Malaysia.

[nalgene87]

cross the border? there's a little red dot down South that happily takes u in, as young as after standard 6... but i wouldn't say that their education system is better, just more intense...

As a true blue Johorean, I have been there for all my life, since Primary 1... yea, that's why my BM is that of a kindergarten kid.. :( But here I am, trying to find the place where I truly belong I think...

[jayktee]

nalgene -

The UK and US and even Australia have wonderful educational institutions merely because they have been around for such a long time. Malaysia is a young, thriving country - we haven't had time for our educational institutions to flourish.

Sure, we have teething problems right now; however, this does not mean we should leave and run away. If anything, we should try our best to work past the initial problems in the system and become products of the system our country can be part of. Even leaving the country means we should bring BACK to Malaysia whatever factor is causing the schools here to be so influential.

And just for the record, I am extremely proud of my public school education - primary, secondary AND prep - and I'm at Yale University.

Here, everyone is proud of where they come from. You should be too.

[nalgene87]

I got in, not because I went abroad or I studied locally, but because I am good. As are these students. If you're good enough, where you go isn't that much of a factor. Kids get into Ivy Leagues because they're good.


In my earlier post, I did acknowledge that there are some people who are able to excel even though they are from our public schools. But one look at it, how many students are there who are as successful as you? Many people in my state are either school dropouts or just end up unemployed upon graduation. Most "successful people" that I come to know of are either having lots of tuition outside school or have really supporting parents who offer them the chance to enrich themselves through piano and violin lessons etc. You are fortunate to have really strict parents who make sure you practise your piano everyday or something... at least that was what I garnered from the newspaper article about you last year if you are the correct person I am talking about.

Someone once told me that if I were walking along a country road and saw a turtle perched on top of a fence post, I could assume the turtle had help getting there. His message was clear: Few, if any, of us get to where we are without assistance and encouragement. And so by saying that you are where you are today because "you are good" and nothing else contributed to your success reflects just so much about you. A person's environment does play a part in nurturing him as a young individual, be it the school, their parents and any other external factor.

PS: In this thread, I am talking about the state of our Public Schools..

[nalgene87]

jayktee, I agree with you that we should not be running away from the problem. But what I am suggesting is that more people get out of our public education system so that they have the exposure and thus be able to contribute to the success of our education system.

"Malaysia is a young, thriving country - we haven't had time for our educational institutions to flourish."

In many aspects, UM was a really respected school. But that was in the past. I am not expecting our educational institutions to become excellent places in just fifty years time. But neither do I expect the level of competency in our educational institutions to backtrack to a level that is unheard of in the past.

[nick_khaw]

So if you acknowledge that there are some who can excel, then don't say "Firstly, I wouldnt consider Xiang Ling and others who got into the ivy leagues 100% Buatan Malaysia considering the fact that they have spent some time abroad."

That is a very wrong, over-generalized statement.

And, er, for the piano, you have the wrong person. I can't play a musical instrument to save my life. I can play O2Jam though. Haha.

[nalgene87]

So if you acknowledge that there are some who can excel, then don't say "Firstly, I wouldnt consider Xiang Ling and others who got into the ivy leagues 100% Buatan Malaysia considering the fact that they have spent some time abroad."

That is a very wrong, over-generalized statement.

And, er, for the piano, you have the wrong person. I can't play a musical instrument to save my life. I can play O2Jam though. Haha.

Yep ok... I agree with you that that sentence of mine is factually faulty. But regardless of whether I have gotten the correct person, I bet you must have really supporting parents who plays a part into moulding you into a Harvard kid. :D

[DecentMerson]

cross the border? there's a little red dot down South that happily takes u in, as young as after standard 6... but i wouldn't say that their education system is better, just more intense...

As a true blue Johorean, I have been there for all my life, since Primary 1... yea, that's why my BM is that of a kindergarten kid.. :( But here I am, trying to find the place where I truly belong I think...

and all ur comments about the public schools are based on?

[andrewlza]

just because i have good parents doesn't necessarily mean that i'll get into an ivy league, nalgene.

you can't generalize and conclude that the malaysians in ivy league colleges are there because they fulfill one of two requirements:

1. they studied abroad

2. they had good parents

now if every single malaysian who had studied abroad or had good parents were to qualify for an ivy league, malaysians would outnumber americans.

point is, the malaysian education system sucks. no one argues with you on that. but that doesn't mean that the products of the system aren't qualified for the premier unis themselves. malaysians can come out from the broken system unscathed, and ready to soar.

[Thirdshifter]

People in America compains how their school sucks too. :D

All school sucks. Well, school just sucks. Its not the system.

[Thirdshifter]

Even with all the spoonfeeding?

explain.

We are taught what to think, not how to think. Spoonfeeding, memorization, and regurgitation of facts is what our students seem to have been brought up on.

Look at it this way, I have sat in engineering classes in one of our local universities before, and students dare not ask any questions. They blindly accept all the facts in the notes and on the blackboard, instead of questioning theories to improve understanding.

From: http://www.graduan.com.my/graduan/annuals/2004feature06.taf

Dr Ahmad Sabirin Arshad, former Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) Deputy Dean relates a story that while amusing ?reveals a very worrying trend among undergraduates in local public universities.

?For a final exam, I had repeated some of the questions I had given my students during a monthly exam,he says ?but of course I had rephrased the question so it wouldn?t be a direct repeat.

?My students came up to me after they got the results and said I had asked the wrong question!?

Whilst this incident may initially sound almost ludicrous, it did happen. And probably continues to happen in the corridors of academia.

?This phenomena of spoonfeeding is getting worse in universities, continues Dr Sabirin, ?but I don?t see a solution yet. There is also still leniency in the passing of students. I see many young people who have engineering degrees who shouldn?t be engineers."


Innovators and thinkers come from a society that emphasizes understanding of class materials so to improve upon existing theories. Workers, however, merely learn how to use them.

Yeah.. the students in these school sucks.. well not all though.. but most that got in for the wrong reasons.

The Quality however is still there.. the product is good, the users are not so good.

[bert]

let's give nalgene a break shall we. i think he has good intentions and does not mean to offend anyone.


i think most of us agree that:

1. msian system - there is room for improvement
2. upbringing does matter quite a bit for those in the most selective schools who went through msian public school education

[nalgene87]

just because i have good parents doesn't necessarily mean that i'll get into an ivy league, nalgene.

you can't generalize and conclude that the malaysians in ivy league colleges are there because they fulfill one of two requirements:

1. they studied abroad

2. they had good parents

now if every single malaysian who had studied abroad or had good parents were to qualify for an ivy league, malaysians would outnumber americans.

point is, the malaysian education system sucks. no one argues with you on that. but that doesn't mean that the products of the system aren't qualified for the premier unis themselves. malaysians can come out from the broken system unscathed, and ready to soar.

First, thanks Bert and yup, sorry for the "our Dartmouth ED boy" :lol:

If you were to see my earlier posts, I did acknowledge that Yes, there are people who made it despite coming from Malaysian public schools. But there arent many. My whole point for this thread is for those who been through the whole process and are now abroad to share with other fellow Malaysians on how they can study abroad, i.e. to escape from our Malaysian Public Schools.

[andrewlza]

lol, "escape". :lol:

[markuzzz]

My whole point for this thread is for those who been through the whole process and are now abroad to share with other fellow Malaysians on how they can study abroad, i.e. to escape from our Malaysian Public Schools.

yeah, we can certainly do more to spread the word about education opportunities abroad. I too knew little about it when I was fresh out of high school.

However, i think it would be more empowering if we could teach students about education itself and how to make the most out of whatever education system given us, as opposed to merely equipping them with all the knowledge on how to get overseas.

I'm now overseas, but i firmly believe that even back in msia, i had access to all the material I needed to learn what I am learning now. The only thing I lacked back then was the encouragement to pursue knowledge.

I don't think the fault is with our education system entirely. What is it that is so bad? Spoonfeeding? students are often the ones demanding for it (eg"what kind of lecturer is this? his notes are useless! *complain, complain..."). Lack of debate and promotion of independent thought? most students will not be bothered to do a thorough research even if given a topic to discuss a month in advance (eh relekla brother, we got one month, plus why do so much research? it's only 5% of our final marks..)

A lot of Malaysian students don't even read the papers, but just follow the headlines and keep up with the sensational news via secondary sources - parents, friends who heard from their parents, recom!... It never struck me that the situation was that bad until I started random talk with a couple of mates back home about moorthy and I realise that they don't know nuts! Even the infamous blogger jeff ooi is unknown to them. Those who post actively on recom are probably a precious minority amongst malaysian youth.

I'd be happy for all those students who get the privelege of being educated overseas, but at the same time we need intelligent and capable students locally as well if we are ever going to push for a reform in our mindset about education and learning. Once we graduate and come back with our degrees we'd be busy building a career and then family, we'd most probably have less time to spend on education business. It would probably not be our priority either.

I am not suggesting that we try not to go overseas and 'sacrifice' ourselves to improve the situation here by staying behind, but I want to say to those who did not get a place overseas or who are studying locally to make a conscious effort to pursue knowledge and to initiate a reform in the way students in local education institutions treat the learning process. Nothing, I find, is more effective than a deepseated personal conviction, optimism, and enthusiasm. It is contagious!

Another thing that would be soo good if it were possible - that if student leaders of all the higher education institutions in msia could form a network.. There's so much that it could lead to! I will try to chrystalise this thought and start emailing the universities. But the more i write, i realise that i'm running out of the topic.. bt i'm not sure if we have been asking ourselves the right questions

[MagicBeans]

I don't think you can put Malaysia's education system entirely at fault. Part of the blame lies with the students and the culture they're brought up in. We're taught to respect our elders, respect authority and not question our superiors. An environment which breeds this is not conducive of producing students who question things in life, a trait which arguably is necessary to succeed in education.

In my opinion, a learned individual is the by product of
- parents
- education system
- culture
- friends
- personal disposition (not everyone wants to be a doctor)
- genetics (dyslexic)

It's far too easy to concentrate on one factor and overlook the others.

Disclaimer: I am Malaysian that is a by product of the Australian education system (Primary-Tertiary). My comments are based on my observations and conversations with Malaysian students at Australian universities.

[johnleemk]

I agree with Markuzzz and MagicBeans. We need to make the most out of what we have, at least at the lower levels of education, because there's no way in hell that most students will ever be able to afford an international school education. Although I suppose you could say I've learned to cope and study on my own, I never did it intentionally. (I've blogged about this before (http://iroatm.cjb.net/display.php?id=31).) I think culture has a lot to do with it. My mother is a Filipino, and my father has always been rather put-off by the typical kiasu Malaysian culture, so my upbringing was pretty eccentric by Malaysian standards.

[digimushu]

Yeah.. the students in these school sucks.. well not all though.. but most that got in for the wrong reasons.

The Quality however is still there.. the product is good, the users are not so good.

Wait till you see the curriculum. It's badly outdated by engineering standards.

[eslite]

Since I just read 3 pages worth of post, I can't exactly remember who said what. :oops:

Firstly, is Malaysian (primary and secondary) education system that sucky? I don't think so. I went through 11 years of education there before coming to Singapore to do JC. I didn't have problems in language transitions and I was also surprised to find that most of the stuff we are learning now was actually covered in our syllabus (especially so for Physics and Biology). Suprisingly I also found some Singaporeans peers as ignorant (not reading newspaper), clueless...........(include all normal adjectives to describe Malaysian students) as their Malaysian peers. They too tend to keep quiet when they don't understand. They too rely on teachers to spoonfeed them. They too are passive and non-inquiring in their learning. They have a system that is so called better than us, but can you see the difference? I couldn't. For me, I think it is not so much on how the system is but how the system is run.

On with the comment that Malaysians that got into ivy leagues are not true Malaysians. But then, what does getting into an ivy league mean? Does it really proof that they are better than those who didn't? Again refering to Singapore, as we all know there are a large number of students from their top 5 JCs being admitted to the top universities in the States and graduating from the top of their cohort. They are supposed to be good and are to made better from the world class education they received. Yet, now the question people are is what has become of them after going into the working world. They never did produce the next Bill Gates or Albert Einstein. Thus, Malaysia could set up some going to ivys special school and send 100 students per year to Harvard but it doesn't proof anything. You can tailor people to get in but so what?

And since I still have school tomorrow, I think people apply to scholarships and good university because of their parents. They apply to them because they are aware of their availability (not their parents) and know what they want in their tertiary education.

On an additional note, I'm not saying Malaysia education is godly wonderful, it does have it problems (teachers, discrimination etc). Neither am I condeming ivy leagues because they are GOOD and we all know that but I don't think the success of a country's education system should be based on the number of people gaining entry to it.

[bestcreation]

how do you explain that I got into Harvard? ...... I got in, not because I went abroad or I studied locally, but because I am good. As are these students. If you're good enough, where you go isn't that much of a factor. Kids get into Ivy Leagues because they're good.

Funny, I thought you can only get into Harvard if you applied. I used to be around 20th in my class year academically. Thankfully none of those above me applied to the scholarship I applied to. Some of them did not know they could get into a top foreign university or just didn't know where to find information. There are others who would not have been able to afford $50 application fee, $100 for TOEFL, ~$50 for the SAT.

More importantly, I was just born with my intelligence and did nothing to deserve it. On the other hard, my hard work would be something I can be proud of because I did work hard to get that scholarship. In other words, I am not sure if I agree with you statement and tone ---
"Kids get into Ivy Leagues because they're good."


http://www.wesleyan.edu/admission/international/freeman.html

[Thirdshifter]

Neither am I condeming ivy leagues because they are GOOD and we all know that but I don't think the success of a country's education system should be based on the number of people gaining entry to it.

Best post ever!

[nick_khaw]

More importantly, I was just born with my intelligence and did nothing to deserve it. On the other hard, my hard work would be something I can be proud of because I did work hard to get that scholarship. In other words, I am not sure if I agree with you statement and tone ---
"Kids get into Ivy Leagues because they're good."


Hmm...Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. Good in this sense of the word encompasses things like intelligence, perseverance, hard work etc etc. I hope this clears things up.

[johnleemk]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663340/site/newsweek/

"We both have meritocracies," Shanmugaratnam (the Singaporean Education Minister) said. "Yours is a talent meritocracy, ours is an exam meritocracy. There are some parts of the intellect that we are not able to test well?like creativity, curiosity, a sense of adventure, ambition. Most of all, America has a culture of learning that challenges conventional wisdom, even if it means challenging authority. These are the areas where Singapore must learn from America."

[MothBall]

I think Malaysian education system is not that worthless. At least we cover a lot in our syllabus, nobody can deny that this knowledge is useful for uni. prep. What we are lacking is the interactivity in education. Yes, Malaysian (a lot of them) are shy to ask questions, they prefer sppon-feeding, they think grades are everything, etc. If u wanna change urself from being all these, u might as well enrol in a good college (Taylor's, Inti). And one thing that is very important is ur attitude yourself. You yourself must muster the courage to ask questions, to take the initiative to do ur own research, to seize opportunities, and so on. U get what I mean? Sometimes it doesn't depend on the ed system, but it's how u exploit the education system and all the resources u all available to access. In a nutshell, u must be self-motivated. U must dare to break out of the cage.

And I think we forgot to mention teachers. Yeah, parents are important factors in deciding whether a person can succeed in their studies. But teacher can be equally important. Sometimes it's up to the teacher to teach them the right attitude to study (as opposed to what to study). Teachers have the responsibility to cultivate in students the qualities of self-motivation, self-reliant, and others. Somehow, most of the Malaysian teachers have not achieved that ,and, instead, they misintepret teaching as solely feeding their knowledge to students. They should be teaching them the attitude, the spirit to learn as well.

My conclusion, don't blame Malaysian education system for everything. There are much more factors to account for.

[DecentMerson]

i think u are missing a 'not' word in ur first sentence...

i do agree that it's all about one's attitude... if u aren't afraid of asking the wrong questions, (they shldn't be one actually), then, it will just do you good... of course, qualified teachers do matters too...

in my opinion, spoon feeding culture in Malaysia is not culminated entirely from school... it's culminated partly, if not mostly, from home...

and i don't think parents too should blame everything on the school... the least they can do is at least to understand the situation and try to reflect on themselves...
i think the problem with the education system is not only because of the syllabus, it's also because of some parents' inability to playing their roles well and expect the education system to play their part too.

for instance, boy X turned to the "dark side", like started playing truant and smoking underage, after mixing with other students in school... who should be responsible for the boy's change? i wouldn't be surprised if many parents start questioning the school before understanding the whole situation...

and learning shld not be limited to the time and space one spends in school. with the internet, learning can be performed virtually anywhere, all u need is a computer with internet connection... and i think the Internet so powerful that it can easily replace many textbook of all levels... for instance, reading a chapter from the textbook, u are only limited to the resources printed... with the internet, u can start with a topic, and then, u can really learn about that topic by zero-in on key words, and all... understanding and learning have never been easier...

and we are supposed to be independent learners, if the teachers are not doing their job, just double up on your own effort... even in my University, there's no guarantee on all my professors are great and can teach you all that you are supposed to get from the course... some research professors are really smart but they really don't know how to teach too... what can you do?

study more on your own... the library is there... of course, those professors have office hour, but u have to go prepared, or u will be roasted-alive...

take the disadvantage of the education system back home, in Malaysia that is, and play it to your own advantage, in a good sense, instead of complaining what you don't understand from the class, go learn by yourself... take it as a chance to do more learning on your own... you don't have to hate school... at least, my fondest memories from Malaysia are still the moments I had in my form 4 and 5 years... all those extended PE lessons, all the debates(thrash-talking) among friends, all the helping i give and take like solving a crazy math prob or explaining a chemistry questions...

in short, i think it's all about one's personality...one's ability to deal with problems and changes, one's ability to see the whole picture, and one's ability to notice that there's more to education than school itself... there's more to learn from than the education system itself...

[budakkerek]

i agree w DecentMerson and MothBall.
even in a good school, how many students actually will fully utilise the facilities and opportunities avaible to them?
not many, i can say.
only those who are very clear about what they want and how bad they want it will do so.

i admit, i wasnt such a star student when i was studying in MRSM. i was in MRSM Taiping, ppl still go wow when i tell em i used to study there, coz they think that studying in such a gd school means that i'm really good and very very smart.
hmm.
only i know what really happened.

stimes i do regret, not paying full attention and making full use of what i had when i was in school. I knew i could hv gotten a better SPM result, and therefore, getting a better scholarship etc, had i tried more and was willing to work harder. Science wasnt really my forte, but i knew, if i worked hard enough, i would be able to make it. But i sorta had this lackadaisical and tidak apa attitude, for the subjects which i dislike, like Chem, Physics, Biology and Add Maths.

Not that i'm in a such bad position now, but i could hv been in a better one, had i taken full advantage of what i had before.

But, like i've said before, i agree with both of you, because i think, even if we hv a perfectly good system, there'll still be those who like the way our Msian edu system works now, the ones who are content with just getting by.

me?
i've learned my lesson.
and yes i am ready to storm the world
and once i get to become a teacher, i'll change the system, by changing the students' mindset about education and what it's all about *shiny-eyes,looking-forward-into-a-bright-future look*

[wawa]

I think DecentMerson and BudakKerek said it well.

For those who are still fanatically looking for a 'totally Buatan Malaysia' student :wink: , I did my primary up till STPM, and I'm a Stanford admit! There you go... :P

Attitude and making the best out of the situation is the way to go about, as D and B pointed out. I'm in Singapore now, and as earlier posts have mentioned, it ain't too great, lotsa route learning and spoonfeeding and like in malaysia, substantial numbers of them have no notion of stuff beyond that. It was upsetting and I "complained" from tutors all the way up to the vice-president of the university. But like in Malaysia, they always tell you, its the system....its the way it is... live with it...

But if you keep your eyes wide open and ears wide, you'd soon find gems amonst the hay everywhere. There will always be people who are willing to help you go about, and while it may not be the easiest nor straightest way, its certainly a way to advance yourself! and make the best out of it...

Budakkerek, I hope in the future you'd be a stellar teacher, and become the guiding light for lots and lots of students. Because that's what happened to me. I stopped attending lectures (except for a few), studied myself, and found lecturers who thought a system should not be a hindrance and patiently explained all the MIT/Berkeley etc questions I bombarded them. Best of all, I found a wonderful and well reputed professor who was willing to take the chance and take me in as his research student to tinker around expensive gadgets!

Morale of the story: Help yourself, and then people who are willing to help you will do so when they see your attitude and zeal. For those who are in crappy systems, best of luck! :wink:

[MothBall]

Another thing is that our libraries aren't well equipped enough, esp. libraries in sec. schools and colleges (i dunno abt unis though). Like for Taylor's College, when I need to do some research on lit. stuff and I can't find books on it. Of course, there's the internet but a lot of the information on it are unreliable. For instance, some of the lit. analysis I found on internet is inaccurate, and sometimes even ridiculous (I'm sure my Eng. lecturer will agree wholeheartedly with that). Well, sometimes it's very useful too. I think libraries should constantly import books, e.g. buying 2nd hand books fr. students or fr 2nd hand shops. And the gahmen shud help with that.

On top of that, gahmen and the teachers and the parents shud encourage the students to read and to USE the lib. Encourage them to self-study. And finally it is up to us students to decide whether we are going to get away breastfeeding, ahem, i mean spoonfeeding onot.