What is the Purpose of A University?

[Rinke]

I understand that the topic of higher education is hot in Malaysia. I am sure many have their own opinions on the state of Malaysian universities. I came across at least two blogs: M Bakri (www.bakrimusa,com) and Education Malaysia (http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/ ) who are dedicated in discussing the current issues esp on higher education. And not to forget: Lim Kit Siang?s harsh criticisms on the state of Malaysian universities appear quite constantly in his blog.

Some, like M Bakri proposed suggestions to reform the education sector. Also if you read Lim Kit Siang?s blog, he indeed has a lot of things to say?but LKS seems to be complaining more than suggesting. Others like Education Malaysia, prefers to deal with the education sector from their own experience and perspectives.

Now, in line with the main theme of these discussions; and since many of us are students: I want to ponder a philosophical question. What is the purpose of a university?

I would like readers to comment on what I think should be the 3 main objectives of a university:

First: To prepare students for a profession.
This is obvious?.. upon graduation students should be able to find suitable occupations befitting what they learn at university.

Second: To instil upon students a coherent set of philosophy.
Some unis imbue their students with liberal and secular philosophies, some with religion (Like UIA in Malaysia and many Catholic unis in US and Europe etc) and some with national based philosophies (like many unis in Malaysia and Singapore- the name NUS says it all). For Malaysia, I think this objective is contentious as some prefer Islam to be the guiding philosophy at universities whilst others like Bakri Musa and many non-Malay and non-Muslims prefer universities to have liberal and secular philosophies. Of course, there are sections within the Malay community that prefer universities to imbue their students with the philosophy of Malay nationalism.

Third: Universities must help their students become mature and better able to deal with the ever changing environment; to help students cope with the multi-dimensional diversity of a globalised world.

Allright ?.I wonder what do other people in this forum think about these objectives?
Also I would like readers to comment if they have anything to add on the issue: what is the purpose a university

Comments are welcome.

Love
Rinke

[Zeroth]

A university should properly equip its students for the chosen profession, and instill proper ethics as well. It should also teach students to learn the ways of lifelong learning process.

Universities should also revamp their system, namely the courses they are offering according to demand of the workforce and not create too much manpower in one sector and depriving another.

We also need MORE universities, so that everyone can get the courses they applied for, provided they met the requirements for the course.

Out universities should also be more proactive in research and development, and collaboration between universities should be enhanced. This would increase the reputation of the university, as well as enhancing the knowledge of the country.

Our universities should also be able to accomodate more international students, and to be an attractive place to persue tertiary education. Students that are studying actually provide more profit to the country in the tourism sense than normal tourists, mainly because of their higher duration of stay and also because of payment to the universities, thus bringing in currency. (sorry, no statistical data to back up, just my logic).

[Dr_Tay]

Nowadays the purpose of most universities are to make money from the public, the students, endowments from alumni and purport helium inflated messages to all within the circumference.

The scandals of universities in Korea and Scandanavia and not to mention the scams set up by some down under unis in the country only serves to make the situation worse. The ideals of the university are honorable but some of the people running it are sad to say are morally challenged.

[nalgene87]

Universities should be about how to live a life.

[Shoblast]

The way i understand it, the Uni shold be a place of highest learning, a place where questions are the most important things, and everything, including tradition and religion is open for questioning, analysis, and discussion.


While i do not agree that universities are responsible for teaching students how to live a life, (because i think individuals are too diverse and they need to learn how to live a life by themselves anyway), I believe that it should teach the students to value someone's intellect and thinking above more shallow things such as appearances and disabilities. The university should present an environment of non-prejudice, where race, religion, and wealth takes a backseat to intellect and knowledge.

[Thirdshifter]

From an employer point of view..

If you had gone through 4 years of college, doing all that assignments,etc,etc learning all the silly stuff in school just for a piece of paper.. then your definately motivated enough to work.

THats all it is, it's a proof that you can endure. able to set a goal and achive it. The piece of paper is proof.

As far as your profession goes, University will never be able to prep up a student for even the simplest job in the world.

[okaywhy]

From an employer point of view..

If you had gone through 4 years of college, doing all that assignments,etc,etc learning all the silly stuff in school just for a piece of paper.. then your definately motivated enough to work.

THats all it is, it's a proof that you can endure. able to set a goal and achive it. The piece of paper is proof.


Haha, I've been pondering about the relevance of a university education for some time, I think this may well be the best answer. :wink:

[vseehua]

a university should be a place to train future intellectuals (politicians, philosophers, engineers...everyone)...

a place where it is politically neutral...

a place where we can critize government policies without fearing ISA...

a place where we finally learn the truth about living a life in this world now...

a place to train future greatest of the field (nobel prize holder etc)

[Rinke]

Yes, ideally a university is a place where individual develop their potential......they should be allowed to do whatever they want in a university... universities should aim to train students for nobel prizes......

But somehow.... I feel things are different...

How many of you are "forced" to take certain courses or specialisation (major) due to requirements from sponsors are because your parents (who sponsor) you wants you take certain courses as these are what they think will enable you to earn good money after you graduate...

And of course, I agree with Dr_Tay that many unis nowadays want to take money from students... I got that experience so many times.... early during semesters the uni finance dept send letters asking students to pay up front... but some how I feel the lecturers are letting me down...... some time ago I was taking this course and I helped this Aussie (we spent a lot of time together) as he was not very good in this course... but in the end I got two grades lower than him... and the lecturer says that I cannot express my self clearly (problem of articulation....)....

He told me he was not impressed with my answers.

I was very dissapointed.... and still dissapointed even now....

[Larry]

From an employer point of view..


As far as your profession goes, University will never be able to prep up a student for even the simplest job in the world.

Are you sure? Then i would want to know what are your reasons?

[deRame]

from politicians' POW, universities could be the place where they can recruit young talents to side with them. BN was doing it all the time. the opposition (PAS, DAP etc) then used the idea. BN saw that this trend could hurt them in a long run thus coming up with idea to prevent any students' involvement with politics. while they might be successful doing that in malaysia, they "can't control" students who study abroad. :P i heard that there are kelab umno and kelab pas in UK.

*digress*


Comments are welcome.

Love
Rinke
were u writing a love letter? i definitely won't fall for it though. i'm not sure how other fellow recommers think about it. :lol: :lol:

[vseehua]

From an employer point of view..


As far as your profession goes, University will never be able to prep up a student for even the simplest job in the world.

Are you sure? Then i would want to know what are your reasons?

well, just look at the many graduates in malaysia out in the streets that are jobless now...and you will see exactly this point...

[DecentMerson]

Yes, ideally a university is a place where individual develop their potential......they should be allowed to do whatever they want in a university... universities should aim to train students for nobel prizes......

But somehow.... I feel things are different...

How many of you are "forced" to take certain courses or specialisation (major) due to requirements from sponsors are because your parents (who sponsor) you wants you take certain courses as these are what they think will enable you to earn good money after you graduate...

And of course, I agree with Dr_Tay that many unis nowadays want to take money from students... I got that experience so many times.... early during semesters the uni finance dept send letters asking students to pay up front... but some how I feel the lecturers are letting me down...... some time ago I was taking this course and I helped this Aussie (we spent a lot of time together) as he was not very good in this course... but in the end I got two grades lower than him... and the lecturer says that I cannot express my self clearly (problem of articulation....)....

He told me he was not impressed with my answers.

I was very dissapointed.... and still dissapointed even now....

are u disappointed because of ur grade? would u change ur mind if u were given the highest score in the class?

ur reasoning seems to be :
u understand what's going on in class --> u helped a classmate understanding the class --> he got better grade than u did --> u think u shld get a better grade...

i don't think this is a valid point.

i think University is just like many other organizations... which need money to run... so, it is completely fair game for them to charge money and all. Probably, some of them are charging a whole lot more than the other, but, u are willing to pay the fees for a reason. If not, why are u still paying the fees? It's just a fair exchange, like buying groceries from a hypermarket... but in this case, what u are buying is not as simple as groceries, but ur personal development. and it comes with a lot more variables which can't be accounted for easily.

A University education is more than just a degree. In my humble opinion, it's not so much of the destination, but a hell lot more on the journey. It's ur choice of thinking of going to University is just to satisfy the current trend of getting a crappy degree, and a normal job, and that's all. Or, u can think that University is a place where there's more opportunities for you to explore whatever than u possibly can.

More often than not, higher tuition fees come with better things...(this is not so true for your branded goods - apparels and all) but this is most of the time, if not all the time, true when it comes to college. These better things include better faculties, better facilities, better alumni network, better opportunities and better whatnot.

about an employer point of view, i think, the university plays an important role of shaping one's character and skills. With the various apportunities to do too many things, skills such as people skills, presentation skills, communication skills, and time management skills and many more are the positive by-products of the university education.

another thoughts, university should not be focusing on training students to win whatever prizes, instead, it should only be guiding students to show them what's possible, and the rest should be left to the students to figure things out. Nobel prizes, (well, not so sure what it means now) is "awarded to people (and also to organizations in the case of the Nobel Peace Prize) who have done outstanding research, invented groundbreaking techniques or equipment, or made outstanding contributions to society" (quoting from Wikipedia). So, i read it as individual research and all, not just learning from a university.

and another thing, i think too many people are too comfortable with being spoon fed and expecting it to be the same in the university level... which is totally outrageous... wishful thinking i would say.

Universities must help their students become mature and better able to deal with the ever changing environment; to help students cope with the multi-dimensional diversity of a globalised world.
i think this is a self-learning, and self-acquiring thing...

[Rinke]

Dear deRame?

I am not writing a love letter? but rather I am being nice? Right now, at the place where I am staying, people always say ?thanks love..? . ? come again love?.? , ?how?s your day love ?...? etc, etc?.

I know that is not the Malaysian way but?.. I think, in today?s world which is so full of hatred, prejudice and pride, we all need more love than hate.

Don?t you agree with me?

Love
Rinke

[Thirdshifter]

Dear deRame…

I am not writing a love letter… but rather I am being nice… Right now, at the place where I am staying, people always say “thanks love..” . “ come again love….” , “how’s your day love ?...” etc, etc….

I know that is not the Malaysian way but….. I think, in today’s world which is so full of hatred, prejudice and pride, we all need more love than hate.

Don’t you agree with me?

Love
Rinke

I think your full of shit.. but none the less thanks love...

Just kidding.

Back to topic.. do not debate on other culture now alright. I just had to come and interfere because it's such a catchy diversion..

please continue.. on what Universities are for.. really.. beside making money.. what is it for! people..

[Rinke]

Dear DecentMerson and other readers:

On the Disappointment
I feel disappointed as I (or more appropriately my parents) spent so much money for tuition, rent and food etc to get me a good degree.

How would you feel when you pay AUD 18,000/- in tuition?.. per year (and that amount is increasing every year until you graduate..) to be told that your grades cannot be higher as the lecturer thinks you cannot articulate your answers up to his standards?.

Ok, I admit: I will not feel bad if my grades are high (in that case that is money well spent) or if someone else (other than my family) pay for my tuition?

Further Philosophical Thoughts on University Education
I think if university education is free or if it is charged only a nominal fee, then every student would be free to pursue their interest? and then grades would not matter? But if education is costly?i.e. to get a degree, requires one to incur debt, or spend a fortune? then I think students would rationally think that that degree must at least cover the (opportunity) cost plus some additional returns? in this instance grades do matter as grades can be a signal of the value of the education that the student has undertaken. Like Thirdshifter has alluded?. If you can endure 3 to 4 years and get excellent grades, then you can endure the boredom and dullness of working life.

To tell you the truth, I would rather pursue my interest in literature rather than studying commerce? but then nobody will pay me to study English literature in Australia?.

Final Words to Justify why I Should Get High Grades
Ok?finally, I would like to further point out that I have a valid point in being disappointed. And I have a valid point to get high grades for that course. I have to say that my grasp of the concepts in that class (Intermediate Corporate Finance) is excellent?. Not only I read and understand the main text: i.e. Brigham and Daves (8th ed)? I even go beyond that?. I have read Thomas E. Copeland and J. Fred Weston?s book: Financial Theory and Corporate Policy (3rd Ed)? that book is supposed to be one of the best books in Corporate Finance?.

Well?. I got that book (Copeland and Weston) free from one of my other lecturer just before summer holidays in 2004? so I had the whole summer to read that book in a ?leisurely? manner?. Also I obtained other books written by Fred Weston? mainly on mergers and acquisition and corporate control? can?t remember the exact names at this point in time?.

Now? don?t tell me that just because I have read Copeland and Weston, I do not deserve the best grade?.. That is preposterous!!


Rinke

[okaywhy]

Or, u can think that University is a place where there's more opportunities for you to explore whatever than u possibly can.

I haven't gone to university yet, but, I'm rather confused with your statement, why do you think that university is a better place to explore stuff? There are libraries, booksotres, wikipedia.... etc, why university is better?


a university should be a place to train future greatest of the field (nobel prize holder etc)

I beg a differ.

For those who're crazy about the Nobel prize, the following text was the excerpt of an interview with Richard Feynman (a Nobel-winning physicist for his work on quantum electrodynamics) made for BBC in 1981:

BBC:"Was it worth the Nobel prize?"

Feynman:"......... I don't like honors. I appreciate it for the work that I did, and for people who appreciate it, and I know there's a lot of physicists use my work. I don't need anything else, I don't think there's any sense to anything else, I don't see that it makes any point that someone in the Swedish Academy decides that this work is noble enough to receive a prize-I've already got the prize. The prize is the pleasure of finding things out, the kick in the discovery, the observation other people use it-those are the real things, the honors are unreal to me."

[Thirdshifter]

who ever got the idea that university as we know it today is the center of excellence is wrong.

University used to be that.. bi now corporate America has taken over that role.

University = paper = corporate.

[DecentMerson]

Dear DecentMerson and other readers:

On the Disappointment
I feel disappointed as I (or more appropriately my parents) spent so much money for tuition, rent and food etc to get me a good degree.

How would you feel when you pay AUD 18,000/- in tuition?.. per year (and that amount is increasing every year until you graduate..) to be told that your grades cannot be higher as the lecturer thinks you cannot articulate your answers up to his standards?.

Ok, I admit: I will not feel bad if my grades are high (in that case that is money well spent) or if someone else (other than my family) pay for my tuition?
If I was told that my articulation skill is not up to a lecturer's standard, i'll try to improve it and show him what I'm worth. I don't see where u are going. Yes, in an ideal world, people would want to get good grades when they pay good money... actually, in my ideal world, i would want good grades without paying any money, if would be even sweeter if i can have good grades and get paid at the same time... but too bad, the world is not so ideal.


Further Philosophical Thoughts on University Education
I think if university education is free or if it is charged only a nominal fee, then every student would be free to pursue their interest? and then grades would not matter? But if education is costly?i.e. to get a degree, requires one to incur debt, or spend a fortune? then I think students would rationally think that that degree must at least cover the (opportunity) cost plus some additional returns? in this instance grades do matter as grades can be a signal of the value of the education that the student has undertaken. Like Thirdshifter has alluded?. If you can endure 3 to 4 years and get excellent grades, then you can endure the boredom and dullness of working life.

To tell you the truth, I would rather pursue my interest in literature rather than studying commerce? but then nobody will pay me to study English literature in Australia?.

I do hope that every student is as rational as you are, but how many students are wasting money because they think that their rich parents will keep on paying for their tuition and whatnot until they have a degree from some unknown university?


Final Words to Justify why I Should Get High Grades
Ok?finally, I would like to further point out that I have a valid point in being disappointed. And I have a valid point to get high grades for that course. I have to say that my grasp of the concepts in that class (Intermediate Corporate Finance) is excellent?. Not only I read and understand the main text: i.e. Brigham and Daves (8th ed)? I even go beyond that?. I have read Thomas E. Copeland and J. Fred Weston?s book: Financial Theory and Corporate Policy (3rd Ed)? that book is supposed to be one of the best books in Corporate Finance?.

Well?. I got that book (Copeland and Weston) free from one of my other lecturer just before summer holidays in 2004? so I had the whole summer to read that book in a ?leisurely? manner?. Also I obtained other books written by Fred Weston? mainly on mergers and acquisition and corporate control? can?t remember the exact names at this point in time?.

Now? don?t tell me that just because I have read Copeland and Weston, I do not deserve the best grade?.. That is preposterous!!


Rinke
reading a good book doesn't mean that you are good. Even if u understand the good book doesn't mean that you can express yourself well(try reading ur post again, i can't really capture what u are trying to say.) For instance, there are many professors who are so smart and knowledgeable in their field, but, that doesn't mean that they can teach well, that's common example of knowing a lot but unable to articulate well. (try asking how many Recommers have such Professors teaching them)

And honestly, I don't see any of your points justifying ur disappointment.




Or, u can think that University is a place where there's more opportunities for you to explore whatever than u possibly can.

I haven't gone to university yet, but, I'm rather confused with your statement, why do you think that university is a better place to explore stuff? There are libraries, booksotres, wikipedia.... etc, why university is better?
I would say so because university has professors who specialize in their own field, and you can learn from them by helping them in some research or just meeting and talking to them. On top of that, the facilities (research labs, libraries) are better. And the opportunities I was saying include the opportunities of organizing an event, or running a society, and other first hand experiences which can't be gained from books.

[Thirdshifter]

i'm shocked that some of you believe that university is the best pleace/source of education.. in about 4 years down the road you'd realize that the schol you went to.. didn't teach you a damn thing.

[vseehua]

hmm...

ok, the nobel prize holder was a bad example...haha..
but still i insist that a uni can be a place to train the greatest in the field...

a uni is not a place in which knowledge is spoon fed to you...a uni is where you learn to gain the knowledge and skills that you will need in your work, and also most importantly, in life later on...

and btw rinky...reading ONE book doesn't make you the best in your class...just look at the research papers found in various scientific journal, there are many many references just to make one paper, what can you use to justify that reading ONE book can give yo good grades...and when the professor said my work is bad, i'll ask what is wrong and improve on it, not grumbling on why i should get higher marks...

and third, yes, our education system teaches us nothing, none will teach us anything....it is us that will learn things...based on our experiences...and the life in uni will teach us a lot...

[Thirdshifter]

.it is us that will learn things...based on our experiences...and the life in uni will teach us a lot...

as oppose to life without going to a university wouldn't teach as much?

I find this justification unacceptable.

[vseehua]

.it is us that will learn things...based on our experiences...and the life in uni will teach us a lot...

as oppose to life without going to a university wouldn't teach as much?

I find this justification unacceptable.

i don't think we can compare like that...they are different things altogether...

[Thirdshifter]

.it is us that will learn things...based on our experiences...and the life in uni will teach us a lot...

as oppose to life without going to a university wouldn't teach as much?

I find this justification unacceptable.

i don't think we can compare like that...they are different things altogether...

how is it different? It's the same thing.

You can learn everything you need to pass all your exam, complete all your thesis, etc, etc without going to one class or even stepping foot a university.

If you really wanted to, you could, its not the greatest idea in the world but do-able.

[gal_flower]

This reminds me of a particular season of The Apprentice where by Trump divided the teams into one team that are college graduates and another team that did not go to college but own their own successes.

There are simply opportunites and experiences that universities offer but the real world can't, just as there are opportunities and experiences that only the real world offer but not universities.

Who is to say where we draw the line?

It's not only learning everything you need to pass your exam etc, because if that is the case, why even bother trying to enter a 'top-notch' university? You might as well attend any university because you only want a degree.

Universities are not necessarily the best place/source of education but it's one of the best available options. Perhaps some of you feel that you gained nothing from being in college, but dare you say you have not grown in one way or another? In dealing with situations or dealing with people? Universities are simply convenient spaces that you place yourself into to 'grow' and 'learn', not just academically, although that is the main idea.

Not that one is better than the other...some people gain more from universities, some gain more from the real world. It's all about availability of options.

[Thirdshifter]

University is just like any other business.

Its about packaging and marketing of pure bulshit. However i find it disappointing that people believe that Bullshit only comes from certain sources. For an example a "top notch" university.

It's marketing, thats all it is.

[Shoblast]

While i agree that a lot professions can be self-taught or foraged outside of university, certain other lines of work like science and medicine, or engineering, or any other type of information intensive lines, they most definately require a university degree. Perhaps that wasn't the case a few hundred years ago, but that is certainly the case now. So while i don't have a lot of comments on this, i do know that to get a profession in these streams, a uni education ia a must.

[vseehua]

While i agree that a lot professions can be self-taught or foraged outside of university, certain other lines of work like science and medicine, or engineering, or any other type of information intensive lines, they most definately require a university degree. Perhaps that wasn't the case a few hundred years ago, but that is certainly the case now. So while i don't have a lot of comments on this, i do know that to get a profession in these streams, a uni education ia a must.

that what i was trying to say earlier...

[Rinke]

Mmmmm.... I see those commenst on why I should not get high grades is quite common..... In the real world (and also in cyber world such as this forum)... yes... reading one of the top Corporate Finance textbook is not a guarantee of getting high distinction on that subject... and many of the pooh-poohing on the virtues of education versus getting high grades and what have you..... Ahhh.... I am quite used to those comments.... And believe it or not... somebody even said what's the purpose complaining? What's the use of getting high grades anyway?

Oh well... it does not matter... but that really dampened my good will spirit of helping others... nowadays I won't help any one anymore..... under any circumstances... as getting a distinction is a very competitive undertaking...... Hah.. I learned my lesson ! (I suppose that applies in corporate life too.....)

But I somehow can see things at a higher level:

You see many old Aussie unis pride themselve in following the British model of education... as opposed to the American model... the British one is elitist... in such kind of environment lecturers are very stingy in giving good grades... they follow a strict Bell curve... unlike in America "everybody gets A's". ...or at least they get a B if they are average..... that I was told......by by one American professor....

Of course in America the student after graduating find him or herself in a lot of "education debt"....... in Oz... education used to be cheaper for both local and foreign students...

But now the country is following the American model ... but many of the old Aussie unis are still hung up with the British elitist model...

And ....I feel that foreign students in general are being ripped off.... lecturers give a lot of excuses not to give high grades especilally to those students who are not native English speakers... giving "articulation problem" and other flimsy excuses... but the uni finds it convenient to charge exorbitant fees to these non English speaking foreign students....

I suppose the question is: Is that practice ethical ?

Is education a commodity.....?

Can universities sell education to the highest bidders... like that in the auction houses......????

And will such things work?

A good example is Melbourne Uni.... Melbourne Uni had two main divisions. First - Melbourne Uni proper and the second: Melbourne Uni Private (MUP)....

But somehow Melbourne Uni Private was shut down after 7-8 years or so.... amidst harsh criticisms ... mainly that MUP failed to deliver the promised returns on investments....

Ok.. I better not go into too much on the politics of private education.... versus public education.....I feel that many commentators here are not critical or even aware of these issues... perhaps as typical Malaysians.... just follow the crowd and hope to get a degree.... by whatever means... after all the average Malaysian uni students (local or overseas) are meek and docile....and they tend to accept the status quo... I mean that is normal... the path of least resistance is very seductive as it is the easiest....




Rinke

[Thirdshifter]

While i agree that a lot professions can be self-taught or foraged outside of university, certain other lines of work like science and medicine, or engineering, or any other type of information intensive lines, they most definately require a university degree. Perhaps that wasn't the case a few hundred years ago, but that is certainly the case now. So while i don't have a lot of comments on this, i do know that to get a profession in these streams, a uni education ia a must.

that what i was trying to say earlier...

How is it a must? What if you want to learn everything there is to programing, and start your own business and become your your own programmer?

Unless working in a hi tech sweat shop is your goal, then i rest my case.

[Shoblast]

I am not talking abour programming, i am mainly talking about science, and especially medicine. Things like lab classes in the uni are sometimes one of the only ways a science student has a chance to do some real, high tech, practical science. And what about medicine? doctors nowadays do not take apprentices, do they?

@<hidden>:
Has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, even if the chances are infinitely small, that you really DO have articulation problems?

[Rinke]

@<hidden>:
Has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, even if the chances are infinitely small, that you really DO have articulation problems?


Haaa....

This may perhaps be an example of pooh-poohing......
Pleas note: I use the word may.... non-native English users may have trouble of articulation... the word is may..and not always.... Perhaps you are the one having an articulation problem.... we'll never know....

I don't think I have an articulation problem... It is quite strange to have that problem. I took a literature course (Modern Aust Literature) as an elective.... good grades - very satisfied with that course....

Now... unlike literature, courses in commerce or business should not handicap non-native English speakers.... as long as the students have a good grasp of the concepts..... especially in courses that deals with quantative techniques like corporate finance/ financial management......



Rinke

[Shoblast]

If you did, then good on you. Sorry to have sounded sarcastic, and i apologise. However i myself am studying in an aussie uni, and so far i haven't run into that kind of problems before. So while i symphatize with your plight, i don't think it is a general problem in universities, just a case of individual lecturers who may be biased.

[el_empty]

You see many old Aussie unis pride themselve in following the British model of education... as opposed to the American model... the British one is elitist... in such kind of environment lecturers are very stingy in giving good grades... they follow a strict Bell curve... unlike in America "everybody gets A's". ...or at least they get a B if they are average..... that I was told......by by one American professor....



zoom in:



unlike in America "everybody gets A's". ...or at least they get a B if they are average..... that I was told......by by one American professor....

that's nonsense. i don't even need to elaborate on the over-generalization.

[okaywhy]

Oh well... it does not matter... but that really dampened my good will spirit of helping others... nowadays I won't help any one anymore..... under any circumstances... as getting a distinction is a very competitive undertaking...... Hah.. I learned my lesson ! (I suppose that applies in corporate life too.....)

Wow.... you might be a bit overreacted... I reckon.

It's just a grade and a simple comment from your lecturer (maybe he was not in a good mood that day, or perhaps you may look like his ex-gf, and he used to be tortured by his ex-gf..etc), it doesn't 'qualified' enough to 'dampen' your helpful spirit, does it? sorry if the examples appear to be rather lame... :wink:

[DecentMerson]

You see many old Aussie unis pride themselve in following the British model of education... as opposed to the American model... the British one is elitist... in such kind of environment lecturers are very stingy in giving good grades... they follow a strict Bell curve... unlike in America "everybody gets A's". ...or at least they get a B if they are average..... that I was told......by by one American professor....



zoom in:



unlike in America "everybody gets A's". ...or at least they get a B if they are average..... that I was told......by by one American professor....

that's nonsense. i don't even need to elaborate on the over-generalization.

well... if that makes him/her feels better, let it be... :)

there's no doubt some grade inflation in some unis, but to say everybody gets A's, that's preposterous... probably u can get that in some online Universities, where u can graduate with a BSc and MBA in 2 years... :)

Most classes have a Mean of B- or C+... that's what you get if u are average...
Most classes do follow Bell Shape Curve too... some strictly, but others, curved... depends on the class size, and the overall performance of the class...

think about it, what a University wants is to have employers to believe in the quality their institution... do you think an average student, getting a 4.00 (all As) but know nothing (in the eye of an employer) will be good for the University???

and there are stingy professors everywhere... not only in UK and/or in the Aus... professors have almost full authority to the grades, it's up to the professors' standard in grading...sometimes, in a class of 100 students, it's possible that only a handful of them who end up getting A...

and msg to Rinke:
Again, u based on a class/professor being bad or good by stating ur final grade... i don't think that should be ur grade shld be the criterion of judging a professor, or a class, and of course the university...

and it's not strange to have articulation(expressing your ideas in words) problem in certain subject but not others.... from your posts, i got to know ur interest is in literature, but not so Finance/Management... is that the reason you are having problems putting down ur ideas into words?? it's actually pretty common for students to have such problem... try asking your literature friends to understand Econs and all... many friends of mine, some engineering, some literature, some history major, studied really hard for their Econs exam, reading the textbooks (plural), making notecards and all, but all those effort only got them an average grade...

[Rinke]

Dear All,

Perhaps I may be overreacting?. But I suppose getting high grades is embedded in me. As much as I like to say that university education is so much more than getting high grades, maybe due to my Malaysian upbringing, I just can?t escape that.

But, obsession about grades is not purely a unique Malaysian problem....

Ohhhh?.. in my uni? in the past, students have torn away, throw or hide reading materials from the library. One of professors told me that. But nowadays, with all things digital? lost or torn books are the problems of the past.

Perhaps it does not really matter if we get low grades? but then again, in the labour market in Malaysia right now?. I think graduates are at the wrong side of the stick?. Employers would ?exploit? everything as they have more power? after all in the labour market right now, the buyers (employers) have more bargaining power?.

Of course , getting grades is not the only way to judge a university?.. ideally universities should be judged by how successful the students become after they graduate?. Or by any other explicitly stated criteria??

But then again, I suppose this world is not an ideal place.

Finally, about grade inflation in US universities. I can't remember it now, but I read somewhere in the newspaper that US universities are too lenient in giving high grades.... and then one of the American professors say that too....

Now.... who is telling the truth ?

[vseehua]

hehe...i wonder if someone hacks into the digital library and all got lost...and somehow he had also deleted the backup copy...now that will be disasters..

anyway, these are craps...

yea, i agree with the labour conditions in malaysia is not good..i still remember my cousin's friends working in a world famous chip manufacturer having to work in and out of the office just so that they won't end up at the bottom of the performance index...pity them actually..because from the few days i observe the, they go to work as uaual, then at night they had to continue working on their project...

of course it's not required that they work like that, but the worst in performance will get less bonus later at the end of the year, or get reprimanded...forgot what is the real consequence...