Outsourcing Trend in the US Job Market.

[masterof_none]

You've probably heard about the problem of outsourcing jobs to foreign countries such as India become a huge issue in the light of presidential election..

this news may interest you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3485025.stm

[masterof_none]

You've probably heard about the problem of outsourcing jobs to foreign countries such as India become a huge issue in the light of presidential election..

this news may interest you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3485025.stm

[__earth]

that gregory mankiw guy is actually my lecturer's lecturer lol!
didnt know he now works for bush in at white house.

but basically, i dont see anything wrong with it. it just a natural way to reduce cost.

the protectionists however are obviously doing what a protectionist does.

[__earth]

that gregory mankiw guy is actually my lecturer's lecturer lol!
didnt know he now works for bush in at white house.

but basically, i dont see anything wrong with it. it just a natural way to reduce cost.

the protectionists however are obviously doing what a protectionist does.

[jiinjoo]

Nothing's "wrong" with it, i.e. it adhere's to the free market rulez that U.S. embraces and preaches themselves.

But it does hurt some of the people in this country - not that they got their job for free - some worked for it, they study hard, got the qualifications, but still, they need a reasonable salary while profit maximizing companies think otherwise.

It hurts when you lost your job, and someone say this to you "活该"! (huo gai, meaning 'you deserve it'). Somehow the article implied this misinterpretation.


Interestingly, I recently learnt from a friend that the new feature on amazon.com that allows you to "Search inside a book" is done by sending all these books to somewhere in South East Asia (didn't say where, probably Indonesia) to get them scanned. Imagine every single book (that the author agreed) sold on amazon have the entire book on some image file, and have a full index into these books. It's really crazy. Without the out-sourcing thing going, it would almost be impossible to make that happen.

[jiinjoo]

Nothing's "wrong" with it, i.e. it adhere's to the free market rulez that U.S. embraces and preaches themselves.

But it does hurt some of the people in this country - not that they got their job for free - some worked for it, they study hard, got the qualifications, but still, they need a reasonable salary while profit maximizing companies think otherwise.

It hurts when you lost your job, and someone say this to you "活该"! (huo gai, meaning 'you deserve it'). Somehow the article implied this misinterpretation.


Interestingly, I recently learnt from a friend that the new feature on amazon.com that allows you to "Search inside a book" is done by sending all these books to somewhere in South East Asia (didn't say where, probably Indonesia) to get them scanned. Imagine every single book (that the author agreed) sold on amazon have the entire book on some image file, and have a full index into these books. It's really crazy. Without the out-sourcing thing going, it would almost be impossible to make that happen.

[masterof_none]

Have you guys ever seen Lou Dobb's in CNN FN ?(channel 52).
you might be interested in the "exporting America" slot.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

I once saw this one Indian guy who appear to be the guy who orchastrate exporting jobs to India. Man, that was awful.

Lou basically just blast him with questions, something like
"why you steal American jobs", "you want to make big bucks", stuff like that.

IMO, he should be shameful talking like that..
I thought Free-Market should be Free movement of Labour too.
(now, it's a good case against Globalization).

[masterof_none]

Have you guys ever seen Lou Dobb's in CNN FN ?(channel 52).
you might be interested in the "exporting America" slot.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

I once saw this one Indian guy who appear to be the guy who orchastrate exporting jobs to India. Man, that was awful.

Lou basically just blast him with questions, something like
"why you steal American jobs", "you want to make big bucks", stuff like that.

IMO, he should be shameful talking like that..
I thought Free-Market should be Free movement of Labour too.
(now, it's a good case against Globalization).

[jiinjoo]

How did the Indian guy responded? Surely he is earning big bucks - and there's nothing wrong with it by our current "globalization ethics". But did he feel sorry for the unemployed in U.S. at all?

A bit off topic here, but I just had an interesting discussion with a few friends from China about the same problem. They claim that this massive effort to "keep jobs in China" has forced the bank in China to keep the Yuan very very low by buying humungous amounts of U.S. Treasury Bond (same goes to Japan). The reason they have to do this is just to keep everyone employed at all times. Decades ago, under a stricter communist rule, there used to be a vicious cycle where the bank is actually instructed to "keep the jobs of the people" by making bad loans to factories which are doomed to failure anyway, just to keep everyone working, even when the factory is producing things that have no demand. These bad loans are accumulated over the years until the pressure is so great that the economy will colapse on its own if they didn't pursue a larger trade with foreign nations. Imagine producing food products, that will be store for months or years, and eventually thrown away coz it went bad etc. Although this is not the only reason they are keeping Yuan low, it's certainly is worrying...

U.S. will also "colapse under its internal pressure" if this trend continues - it will need to find work for people, albeit in a different sense. I would even go one step further to say that having a "war" sometimes helps get people "doing something" - to what end? only Bush will know :D

[jiinjoo]

How did the Indian guy responded? Surely he is earning big bucks - and there's nothing wrong with it by our current "globalization ethics". But did he feel sorry for the unemployed in U.S. at all?

A bit off topic here, but I just had an interesting discussion with a few friends from China about the same problem. They claim that this massive effort to "keep jobs in China" has forced the bank in China to keep the Yuan very very low by buying humungous amounts of U.S. Treasury Bond (same goes to Japan). The reason they have to do this is just to keep everyone employed at all times. Decades ago, under a stricter communist rule, there used to be a vicious cycle where the bank is actually instructed to "keep the jobs of the people" by making bad loans to factories which are doomed to failure anyway, just to keep everyone working, even when the factory is producing things that have no demand. These bad loans are accumulated over the years until the pressure is so great that the economy will colapse on its own if they didn't pursue a larger trade with foreign nations. Imagine producing food products, that will be store for months or years, and eventually thrown away coz it went bad etc. Although this is not the only reason they are keeping Yuan low, it's certainly is worrying...

U.S. will also "colapse under its internal pressure" if this trend continues - it will need to find work for people, albeit in a different sense. I would even go one step further to say that having a "war" sometimes helps get people "doing something" - to what end? only Bush will know :D

With politics on fire, this issue is definitely going to be heavily debated.

This might be interesting read

Fed's Greenspan : Labor Mkt Improving, To Keep Picking Up


DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

By Deborah Lagomarsino

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -- Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan on Friday gave an upbeat assessment of the U.S. job outlook and stressed that boosting worker skills was key to further job creation, not protectionist measures.

"We have seen encouraging signs of late that the labor market is improving," Greenspan said in prepared remarks at the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce 2004 Annual Meeting in Omaha, Neb.

"In all likelihood, employment will begin to increase more quickly before long as output continues to expand. But fears about job security are understandably significant when nearly 2 million of our workforce have been unemployed for more than a year," Greenspan said.

He acknowledged the intensifying debate about U.S. jobs lost to outsourcing, saying there is a "palpable unease" that businesses and jobs are being drained from the U.S. However, he cautioned that the answer is a better-trained and more educated workforce, not protectionism.

"Protectionism will do little to create jobs; and if foreigners retaliate, we will surely lose jobs. We need instead to discover the means to enhance the skills of our workforce and to further open markets here and abroad to allow our workers to compete effectively in the global marketplace," Greenspan said.

The outsourcing issue has been a hot topic in recent months. It was thrust into the spotlight last week after Gregory Mankiw, who chairs President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers, contended that U.S. jobs lost overseas have long-term benefits for the economy.

The issue has also figured prominently in the presidential campaign. Democratic presidential contenders Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina frequently cite it in stump speeches.

Greenspan argued that the outsourcing of jobs needs to be kept in perspective.

"Those who have lost jobs, I know, are not readily consoled by the fact that current job insecurity concerns are not new. But keeping the current period in context is instructive," Greenspan said.

For example, U.S. jobs were perceived as migrating to low-wage Japan in the 1950s and 1960s, to low-wage Mexico in the 1990s and most recently to low-wage China, Greenspan said.

"Japan, of course, is no longer characterized by a low-wage workforce, and many in Mexico are now complaining of job losses to low-wage China," Greenspan said.

"Over the long sweep of American generations and waves of economic change, we simply have not experienced a net drain of jobs to advancing technology or to other nations," he said.

The loss of jobs in the past three years is mainly due to rapid declines in the demand for industrial goods and to big productivity gains that have caused supply to outstrip demand, Greenspan said.

"The single central action necessary to ameliorate these imbalances and their accompanying consequences for income inequality is to boost the skills, and thus earning potential, of those workers lower on the skill ladder," he said.

-By Deborah Lagomarsino, Dow Jones Newswires;202-862-9255; deborah.lagomarsino@<hidden>

With politics on fire, this issue is definitely going to be heavily debated.

This might be interesting read

Fed's Greenspan : Labor Mkt Improving, To Keep Picking Up


DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

By Deborah Lagomarsino

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -- Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan on Friday gave an upbeat assessment of the U.S. job outlook and stressed that boosting worker skills was key to further job creation, not protectionist measures.

"We have seen encouraging signs of late that the labor market is improving," Greenspan said in prepared remarks at the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce 2004 Annual Meeting in Omaha, Neb.

"In all likelihood, employment will begin to increase more quickly before long as output continues to expand. But fears about job security are understandably significant when nearly 2 million of our workforce have been unemployed for more than a year," Greenspan said.

He acknowledged the intensifying debate about U.S. jobs lost to outsourcing, saying there is a "palpable unease" that businesses and jobs are being drained from the U.S. However, he cautioned that the answer is a better-trained and more educated workforce, not protectionism.

"Protectionism will do little to create jobs; and if foreigners retaliate, we will surely lose jobs. We need instead to discover the means to enhance the skills of our workforce and to further open markets here and abroad to allow our workers to compete effectively in the global marketplace," Greenspan said.

The outsourcing issue has been a hot topic in recent months. It was thrust into the spotlight last week after Gregory Mankiw, who chairs President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers, contended that U.S. jobs lost overseas have long-term benefits for the economy.

The issue has also figured prominently in the presidential campaign. Democratic presidential contenders Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina frequently cite it in stump speeches.

Greenspan argued that the outsourcing of jobs needs to be kept in perspective.

"Those who have lost jobs, I know, are not readily consoled by the fact that current job insecurity concerns are not new. But keeping the current period in context is instructive," Greenspan said.

For example, U.S. jobs were perceived as migrating to low-wage Japan in the 1950s and 1960s, to low-wage Mexico in the 1990s and most recently to low-wage China, Greenspan said.

"Japan, of course, is no longer characterized by a low-wage workforce, and many in Mexico are now complaining of job losses to low-wage China," Greenspan said.

"Over the long sweep of American generations and waves of economic change, we simply have not experienced a net drain of jobs to advancing technology or to other nations," he said.

The loss of jobs in the past three years is mainly due to rapid declines in the demand for industrial goods and to big productivity gains that have caused supply to outstrip demand, Greenspan said.

"The single central action necessary to ameliorate these imbalances and their accompanying consequences for income inequality is to boost the skills, and thus earning potential, of those workers lower on the skill ladder," he said.

-By Deborah Lagomarsino, Dow Jones Newswires;202-862-9255; deborah.lagomarsino@<hidden>

[jiinjoo]

Here's a random thought - how about deflating the green buck? As other currencies appreciate relative the to dollar, companies might just decide to stop sending jobs overseas.

What are the implications? Is it practical? This China's strategy isn't it?

[jiinjoo]

Here's a random thought - how about deflating the green buck? As other currencies appreciate relative the to dollar, companies might just decide to stop sending jobs overseas.

What are the implications? Is it practical? This China's strategy isn't it?

[Thirdshifter]

geez, this outsourcing thing has been played/used by the dumbasses IT worker/Stupid fat white collar republican in US who can't even format a hardrive in window 95.

These are the people who can't get a job because they are plain dumb not because of outsourcing. Look at www.dice.com plenty of jobs there.

The consultant group i work/Acc. with (IEEE) do an interview almost every day and i meet so many stupid dumbass who got paid quater million a year during the Boom and they apparently won't work for anything less because it's not right for them..?

So we finally resorted to hiring fresh grads and getting good qualified hard working engineers from Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, UK.

Also the call operators could easily find a better job. There's plenty in USA.

It's not about the labor cost entirely its just these guys are lazy and expect everything comes rolling down to them.

Lets put it this way. If i can get two jobs why can't they even get one?

[Thirdshifter]

geez, this outsourcing thing has been played/used by the dumbasses IT worker/Stupid fat white collar republican in US who can't even format a hardrive in window 95.

These are the people who can't get a job because they are plain dumb not because of outsourcing. Look at www.dice.com plenty of jobs there.

The consultant group i work/Acc. with (IEEE) do an interview almost every day and i meet so many stupid dumbass who got paid quater million a year during the Boom and they apparently won't work for anything less because it's not right for them..?

So we finally resorted to hiring fresh grads and getting good qualified hard working engineers from Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, UK.

Also the call operators could easily find a better job. There's plenty in USA.

It's not about the labor cost entirely its just these guys are lazy and expect everything comes rolling down to them.

Lets put it this way. If i can get two jobs why can't they even get one?

[__earth]

Here's a random thought - how about deflating the green buck? As other currencies appreciate relative the to dollar, companies might just decide to stop sending jobs overseas.

What are the implications? Is it practical? This China's strategy isn't it?

I dont really get what you are trying to say.
By deflating, you mean, deflation (as oppose to inflation) or depreciation the USD value?

[__earth]

Here's a random thought - how about deflating the green buck? As other currencies appreciate relative the to dollar, companies might just decide to stop sending jobs overseas.

What are the implications? Is it practical? This China's strategy isn't it?

I dont really get what you are trying to say.
By deflating, you mean, deflation (as oppose to inflation) or depreciation the USD value?

I think jiinjoo meant devaluing instead of deflating.

If if devaluing is what you meant, it is still difficult to stop the outsourcing of jobs when wages outside the US are 10-15 times lower.

For example, I recently read in the nytimes that a consulting company has decided to outsource its programming jobs to India. In India, highly-skilled programmers get paid $20,000 a year (a very sizable sum), whereas the same-skilled programmers in the US are paid $150,000 a year.

I think jiinjoo meant devaluing instead of deflating.

If if devaluing is what you meant, it is still difficult to stop the outsourcing of jobs when wages outside the US are 10-15 times lower.

For example, I recently read in the nytimes that a consulting company has decided to outsource its programming jobs to India. In India, highly-skilled programmers get paid $20,000 a year (a very sizable sum), whereas the same-skilled programmers in the US are paid $150,000 a year.

[__earth]

Have you heard the news?
Somebody, an economist (heh!) has come to Mankiw aid.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=2&u=/nm/20040225/bs_nm/economy_fed_mcteer_dc

I expect the politicians to grow some fur!

[__earth]

Have you heard the news?
Somebody, an economist (heh!) has come to Mankiw aid.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=2&u=/nm/20040225/bs_nm/economy_fed_mcteer_dc

I expect the politicians to grow some fur!

[yytan]

Got this from my engineering professor. Thought you may be interested.

More and more companies are outsourcing engineering and manufacturing jobs offshore to low-wage countries. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says U.S. manufacturing employment has declined 16% in 3 years. Manufacturing jobs are being shifted to China, Mexico, India, and to other places in the Third World. This has brought speculation that manufacturing in the U.S. may never recover.

But can we continue to buy goods if all we sell is services? Can we be a nation that just produces services and still maintain our way of life? How can we survive if our largest exports are jobs and the U.S. dollar?

This Machine Design webcast, hosted by Machine Design Editor Ron
Khol will look into these issues and at the long-term effects of outsourcing engineering tasks offshore. We'll examine whether what's taking place today is really a problem, and if so, what industry can do about it.

*************************************
Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2004
Time: 2:00 PM EST
*************************************
No charge to attend!

Click the link below to register:
http://list.pentonmedia.com/cgi-bin3/DM/y/eesQ0FrtMi0JDh0BF4Q0Az

[yytan]

Got this from my engineering professor. Thought you may be interested.

More and more companies are outsourcing engineering and manufacturing jobs offshore to low-wage countries. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says U.S. manufacturing employment has declined 16% in 3 years. Manufacturing jobs are being shifted to China, Mexico, India, and to other places in the Third World. This has brought speculation that manufacturing in the U.S. may never recover.

But can we continue to buy goods if all we sell is services? Can we be a nation that just produces services and still maintain our way of life? How can we survive if our largest exports are jobs and the U.S. dollar?

This Machine Design webcast, hosted by Machine Design Editor Ron
Khol will look into these issues and at the long-term effects of outsourcing engineering tasks offshore. We'll examine whether what's taking place today is really a problem, and if so, what industry can do about it.

*************************************
Date: Wednesday, March 24, 2004
Time: 2:00 PM EST
*************************************
No charge to attend!

Click the link below to register:
http://list.pentonmedia.com/cgi-bin3/DM/y/eesQ0FrtMi0JDh0BF4Q0Az

[jiinjoo]

I think jiinjoo meant devaluing instead of deflating.

Oops - *malu* - I meant devaluing. I've been using deflating pretty sparingly only to realize it is totally wrong.

Anyway, back to the issue. I was under the impression that when you calculate cost of outsourcing, it is not only a function of the net wage you pay the worker, but it should also include other cost like high probability of doing a bad job (less supervision? doesn't share the same passion? or for the call center's example, don't understand american mentality resulting in lost of customers?) as well as different timing, different norms / standards of life (if an engineer needs to take a 2 hour nap after lunch - case in point parts of china), different expectations (example - software industry - if your code base is written in a different "style" from the common style taught in US, eventhough it might work, but when it comes time to transfer ownership from the team in India to a team in US, there might be huge backlash if something breaks and you'll have to fix it by reading hindi comments in the code) etc.

In that sense I'll take the 10 to 15 times difference with a pinch of salt. It might be, after all the math, 5 times? 2 times?

Thirdshifter! No wonder the jobs disappeared - you got them all! :D Great job!!! 8)

[jiinjoo]

I think jiinjoo meant devaluing instead of deflating.

Oops - *malu* - I meant devaluing. I've been using deflating pretty sparingly only to realize it is totally wrong.

Anyway, back to the issue. I was under the impression that when you calculate cost of outsourcing, it is not only a function of the net wage you pay the worker, but it should also include other cost like high probability of doing a bad job (less supervision? doesn't share the same passion? or for the call center's example, don't understand american mentality resulting in lost of customers?) as well as different timing, different norms / standards of life (if an engineer needs to take a 2 hour nap after lunch - case in point parts of china), different expectations (example - software industry - if your code base is written in a different "style" from the common style taught in US, eventhough it might work, but when it comes time to transfer ownership from the team in India to a team in US, there might be huge backlash if something breaks and you'll have to fix it by reading hindi comments in the code) etc.

In that sense I'll take the 10 to 15 times difference with a pinch of salt. It might be, after all the math, 5 times? 2 times?

Thirdshifter! No wonder the jobs disappeared - you got them all! :D Great job!!! 8)

[masterof_none]

Recently, Time magazine has the cover story regarding this issue.
Basically discussing about the impact of outsourcing.
Although they don't really quite come to the conclusion (and quote almost the figures from any other news, like the forcast that 3.3 million jobs would go overseas in 2015), it gives the impression to me that Americans now at the state of confusion.

On the one hand, they try to preach the Free Trade, where we shouldn;t impose barriers on the capital movement all accross the planet.

on the other hand, those politicians got the pressure from the average workers to keep the white-collar jobs at home.

We must realize that, outsourcing is actually at the favor of big businesses. This is also the very reason why the US try to bring China into the WTO, so that they can reap the benefits of low-cost workers in China while invest opening a new, wild, unknown territory to be explored.

They also want to hire relatively low-cost programmers and english-speaking,high IQ workers in India, so that they can concentrate on
running the core business. I mean, why should we maintain the call center if it can be outsourced to India .

Again, like Jiin Joo said, whether the quality of these Indian workers can meet the American standard or not, ...they're still not sure.

recently, Dell reported that it shut the call center (or sth like that) in India and transfer it back to the States. So, this might alarmed potential investors to ensure that they don't just into the bandwagon without doing research..

However, I think the trend would continue.
Just like 1980's manufacturing trend that enrich our country,
it would enrich our country one more time.
(How?)

[masterof_none]

Recently, Time magazine has the cover story regarding this issue.
Basically discussing about the impact of outsourcing.
Although they don't really quite come to the conclusion (and quote almost the figures from any other news, like the forcast that 3.3 million jobs would go overseas in 2015), it gives the impression to me that Americans now at the state of confusion.

On the one hand, they try to preach the Free Trade, where we shouldn;t impose barriers on the capital movement all accross the planet.

on the other hand, those politicians got the pressure from the average workers to keep the white-collar jobs at home.

We must realize that, outsourcing is actually at the favor of big businesses. This is also the very reason why the US try to bring China into the WTO, so that they can reap the benefits of low-cost workers in China while invest opening a new, wild, unknown territory to be explored.

They also want to hire relatively low-cost programmers and english-speaking,high IQ workers in India, so that they can concentrate on
running the core business. I mean, why should we maintain the call center if it can be outsourced to India .

Again, like Jiin Joo said, whether the quality of these Indian workers can meet the American standard or not, ...they're still not sure.

recently, Dell reported that it shut the call center (or sth like that) in India and transfer it back to the States. So, this might alarmed potential investors to ensure that they don't just into the bandwagon without doing research..

However, I think the trend would continue.
Just like 1980's manufacturing trend that enrich our country,
it would enrich our country one more time.
(How?)

[masterof_none]

another news about the 'worries' of the outsourcing..

http://news.com.com/2100-1011_3-5175699.html?tag=nefd_top

I've heard rumor saying that India actually outsource their job to Malaysia.. so in a sense, we are actually at the bottom of the food chain.

US -> India -> Malaysia.

although I think Govt investment in IT is not that bad, I think money can also be spent in promoting the knowledge of Science to students.

(so that, through R&D, we can create our own application of science i.e Technology)

This is exactly what Shien Jin (prince) asked the Dato' Ambassador at the leadership camp 2 years ago.

[masterof_none]

another news about the 'worries' of the outsourcing..

http://news.com.com/2100-1011_3-5175699.html?tag=nefd_top

I've heard rumor saying that India actually outsource their job to Malaysia.. so in a sense, we are actually at the bottom of the food chain.

US -> India -> Malaysia.

although I think Govt investment in IT is not that bad, I think money can also be spent in promoting the knowledge of Science to students.

(so that, through R&D, we can create our own application of science i.e Technology)

This is exactly what Shien Jin (prince) asked the Dato' Ambassador at the leadership camp 2 years ago.

[windy_city]

another news about the 'worries' of the outsourcing..

http://news.com.com/2100-1011_3-5175699.html?tag=nefd_top

I've heard rumor saying that India actually outsource their job to Malaysia.. so in a sense, we are actually at the bottom of the food chain.

US -> India -> Malaysia.

although I think Govt investment in IT is not that bad, I think money can also be spent in promoting the knowledge of Science to students.

(so that, through R&D, we can create our own application of science i.e Technology)

This is exactly what Shien Jin (prince) asked the Dato' Ambassador at the leadership camp 2 years ago.
Do you guys think that our Malaysian fresh graduates are the target of those outsourcing companies? Although the government are promoting all those IT skills with the MSD and stuffs, and the universities are urged to prepare the graduates to be more competitive in the job market, our Malaysian graduates are just being used as low cost labor by these companies. This is especially true for the fresh IT graduates in Malaysia from local U. They are paid very low, some even get paid lower than then the pay overseas interns (I mean Malaysians who study overseas) get. What you guys think about this statement, any opinion, or any objection?

[jiinjoo]

Digging up old thread. I recently read a pretty interesting article - referred to me by SPH reporters. It has been sometime since Thomas Friedman's infamous book "The World is Flat" which Americans are still slowly waking up to, but this article really gives you the chills:

http://www.smartmoney.com/esquire/index.cfm?Story=20050909-outsource

It's rather long, but the details are worth noting. Honey must be a star by now in India, a poster girl of sorts maybe.

And what has happened here for the past 2 years? Anyone who got a personal assitant want to share their experience? Anyone who's working as a remote personal assistance want to share their experience too?