Intro of Medical Education in Various Medical School

[tehjiao]

Well, medicine is one of the longest course in the world as it needs 5-6 years to learn and another 1-3 years to practise before one can really qualified as a "Doctor".
Well, let me start to intro mine, the system of MEdical School of USM right now.
In USM, this is a 5 years course.
1st year- Basic Science, students need to learn Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology, Immunology and Microbiology. Well, personally, i think it is boring as the style just like study Form 6, u just need to memorize and vomit it in the exam. Besides, due to some reasons, USM does not have dissection class to learn anatomy, so guess what? 150++ students rush for a cadaval and finally you only can see some pieces left....
2nd and 3rd year-PRe-clinical year. This moment is more interesting as we start to learn pathology and diseases. We also go to hospital to practice history taking and physical examination skill. It's fun as u start to feel you yourself as a Dr now, however............just don't forget here is Kelantan and they have their own slang called 'Kelatei', things become different when they speak in slang, like 'makan' becomes 'makei', 'kawan' becomes 'kawe', 'sakit' becomes 'sekok' and etc....then u start to think why Gods create so many language and slang to make ppl headache..... :P
4th and 5th year-CLinical year
Now it's the time that medical students can experience Dr's life. U need to handle some patients in the ward and need to know their info and disease in and out as every morning the doctors in charge will question about the management and progression, if someone cannot answer......God Bless! We need to change from 1 posting/department to another in 2-6 weeks time and i found it's fun and very challenging as well.

p/s: Anybody who want to intro their course(medical related, not only medical school) are welcome!

[tehjiao]

Well, medicine is one of the longest course in the world as it needs 5-6 years to learn and another 1-3 years to practise before one can really qualified as a "Doctor".
Well, let me start to intro mine, the system of MEdical School of USM right now.
In USM, this is a 5 years course.
1st year- Basic Science, students need to learn Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry, Pharmacology, Immunology and Microbiology. Well, personally, i think it is boring as the style just like study Form 6, u just need to memorize and vomit it in the exam. Besides, due to some reasons, USM does not have dissection class to learn anatomy, so guess what? 150++ students rush for a cadaval and finally you only can see some pieces left....
2nd and 3rd year-PRe-clinical year. This moment is more interesting as we start to learn pathology and diseases. We also go to hospital to practice history taking and physical examination skill. It's fun as u start to feel you yourself as a Dr now, however............just don't forget here is Kelantan and they have their own slang called 'Kelatei', things become different when they speak in slang, like 'makan' becomes 'makei', 'kawan' becomes 'kawe', 'sakit' becomes 'sekok' and etc....then u start to think why Gods create so many language and slang to make ppl headache..... :P
4th and 5th year-CLinical year
Now it's the time that medical students can experience Dr's life. U need to handle some patients in the ward and need to know their info and disease in and out as every morning the doctors in charge will question about the management and progression, if someone cannot answer......God Bless! We need to change from 1 posting/department to another in 2-6 weeks time and i found it's fun and very challenging as well.

p/s: Anybody who want to intro their course(medical related, not only medical school) are welcome!

[fish]

woh. Ranking has dropped. Better have something to fix it up again :lol:
Huh, my life here is full of ups and downs. Very dissapointed today lo... I know, this is a forum on Medicine, but I can I can stress out and relax a bit here by complaining about my life in Medic Fac.....
I know TehJiao will disagree, but can we start a complaining corner or a corner on how to deal with stress or something?

[fish]

woh. Ranking has dropped. Better have something to fix it up again :lol:
Huh, my life here is full of ups and downs. Very dissapointed today lo... I know, this is a forum on Medicine, but I can I can stress out and relax a bit here by complaining about my life in Medic Fac.....
I know TehJiao will disagree, but can we start a complaining corner or a corner on how to deal with stress or something?

[fish]

働く時間が長い。
一生懸命働くのは何のためでしょうか。
それから、一生は何の結果が欲しいですか。

他の人のためを考えなきゃ。。。
それがお医者さんの誓うではないだろうか。

Oops. Wrong department(nihongo). But I already typed it so I will go on.

Long working hours
What is your reason for trying so hard
What do you wish at the end (of your life)

Thinking of others first
Is this the oath of a doctor?

hehe, shall I try for the creative corner as well?

[fish]

働く時間が長い。
一生懸命働くのは何のためでしょうか。
それから、一生は何の結果が欲しいですか。

他の人のためを考えなきゃ。。。
それがお医者さんの誓うではないだろうか。

Oops. Wrong department(nihongo). But I already typed it so I will go on.

Long working hours
What is your reason for trying so hard
What do you wish at the end (of your life)

Thinking of others first
Is this the oath of a doctor?

hehe, shall I try for the creative corner as well?

[Schye]

That is why i respect you all, doctors :)

[Schye]

That is why i respect you all, doctors :)

[soul_out]

I hope all the medics do not forget the existence of Pharmacist in the field of health care professional.

I also hope all the medics understand the role of pharmacist in order to work together to achieve a better patient care.

Last but not least, i hope all the medics don't not think that they are more supperior than anyone else in Hospital becoz they r not God and they also not expert in everything. They need pharmacists, nurses, lab assistants and all the para medics to achieve their therapeutic goal.

Many thanks.

P/S: I'm a 4th Year Pharmacy student in The University of Strathclyde, Glasgow.

[soul_out]

I hope all the medics do not forget the existence of Pharmacist in the field of health care professional.

I also hope all the medics understand the role of pharmacist in order to work together to achieve a better patient care.

Last but not least, i hope all the medics don't not think that they are more supperior than anyone else in Hospital becoz they r not God and they also not expert in everything. They need pharmacists, nurses, lab assistants and all the para medics to achieve their therapeutic goal.

Many thanks.

P/S: I'm a 4th Year Pharmacy student in The University of Strathclyde, Glasgow.

[fish]

I am not a Medic. Just one of those little people which around hangs out in labs.
Hey soul_out, why did you sound so serious? I wrote that thing on one of those long nights I spent in my little lab. Very stressed out during then.
Of course I think pharmacists are great too. :) Do tell us more on your studies, ok? I am certainly curious about what you guys are studying about.

[fish]

I am not a Medic. Just one of those little people which around hangs out in labs.
Hey soul_out, why did you sound so serious? I wrote that thing on one of those long nights I spent in my little lab. Very stressed out during then.
Of course I think pharmacists are great too. :) Do tell us more on your studies, ok? I am certainly curious about what you guys are studying about.

[Schye]

I heard that Malaysia is going to change the medical system since when i was in secondary school. I mean from getting the medcine from clinic to the system which is being implemented is other developed countries where medcine can be get only from pharmacies/drug stores. Or will it stay the same ?

I did went to pharmacies quite often when i was in primary school actually as i dont like the atmosphere in clinic or hospital. HOwever i dont know much about the job of pharmacists. Maybe you could tell us the details here, Soul_out.

[Schye]

I heard that Malaysia is going to change the medical system since when i was in secondary school. I mean from getting the medcine from clinic to the system which is being implemented is other developed countries where medcine can be get only from pharmacies/drug stores. Or will it stay the same ?

I did went to pharmacies quite often when i was in primary school actually as i dont like the atmosphere in clinic or hospital. HOwever i dont know much about the job of pharmacists. Maybe you could tell us the details here, Soul_out.

[soul_out]

Hi Fish, i like to work in lab as well, but my research interest is Drug Delivery, which is designing the most effective way to deliver the drug to its target side in our body. What about you?

I think what i said in the previous msg is happended everywhere, even here in UK, just that it's not as bad as our home country.

SChye, it's 100% alrite if you don't know the role of a pharmacist as it's rather a new profession in our country although the word pharmacy exist for more than . 15 years ago, there's only 1 Institution in Malaysia who offer Pharmacy course, which is USM. UM and UKM started their pharmacy course at 1990s, while IMU is the 1st private institution in Malaysia who offer pharmacy twinning programme back in 1996. SIT, Klang then start their pharmcy twinning programme somethere 1999 and Sedaya start their 1st pharmacy twining programme which twinned with USM/UM in the year 2000.

"The pharmacist plays an important role in the provision of health care by ensuring that adequate supplies of safe, but potent medicines are continuously available to patients when they are required. " [Adapted from IMU website]

"Pharmacy contributes to the nation's health through the expertise of graduate pharmacists in all aspects of the preparation of medicines, ranging from discovery and development to dispensing and supply to patients. Pharmacists are employed in community pharmacies, in hospitals, in universities (where they may engage in research), and in industry. In the latter case, they may be involved in drug production, providing drug information or research." [Adapted from University of Strathclyde website]

[soul_out]

Hi Fish, i like to work in lab as well, but my research interest is Drug Delivery, which is designing the most effective way to deliver the drug to its target side in our body. What about you?

I think what i said in the previous msg is happended everywhere, even here in UK, just that it's not as bad as our home country.

SChye, it's 100% alrite if you don't know the role of a pharmacist as it's rather a new profession in our country although the word pharmacy exist for more than . 15 years ago, there's only 1 Institution in Malaysia who offer Pharmacy course, which is USM. UM and UKM started their pharmacy course at 1990s, while IMU is the 1st private institution in Malaysia who offer pharmacy twinning programme back in 1996. SIT, Klang then start their pharmcy twinning programme somethere 1999 and Sedaya start their 1st pharmacy twining programme which twinned with USM/UM in the year 2000.

"The pharmacist plays an important role in the provision of health care by ensuring that adequate supplies of safe, but potent medicines are continuously available to patients when they are required. " [Adapted from IMU website]

"Pharmacy contributes to the nation's health through the expertise of graduate pharmacists in all aspects of the preparation of medicines, ranging from discovery and development to dispensing and supply to patients. Pharmacists are employed in community pharmacies, in hospitals, in universities (where they may engage in research), and in industry. In the latter case, they may be involved in drug production, providing drug information or research." [Adapted from University of Strathclyde website]

[soul_out]

I heard that Malaysia is going to change the medical system since when i was in secondary school. I mean from getting the medcine from clinic to the system which is being implemented is other developed countries where medcine can be get only from pharmacies/drug stores. Or will it stay the same ?



I don't think it can be done within 10 years although there are rumors said that it will start in the year 2005/2006. The are few major concerns regarding this new health scheme.

First and foremost, the population of Pharmacist is still significantly lower than the ideal number in order to make this new health scheme successful.

The Malaysia Medical Association (MMA, Medical Doctor's society) is a very strong society and having great influence in politic fields. Of course they would not let this happended easily as this New Scheme will seriously affect the income of GP (General Practitioner,medical doctor who work in the community). Therefore, MMA will try to do everything to delay the implemention of the new scheme such as question the ability of the pharmacist.

On the other hand, majority of Malaysian do not know the significance of this new scheme and they will only think that this new scheme is too much hassle for them instead of provide them a better therapeutic control.

[soul_out]

I heard that Malaysia is going to change the medical system since when i was in secondary school. I mean from getting the medcine from clinic to the system which is being implemented is other developed countries where medcine can be get only from pharmacies/drug stores. Or will it stay the same ?



I don't think it can be done within 10 years although there are rumors said that it will start in the year 2005/2006. The are few major concerns regarding this new health scheme.

First and foremost, the population of Pharmacist is still significantly lower than the ideal number in order to make this new health scheme successful.

The Malaysia Medical Association (MMA, Medical Doctor's society) is a very strong society and having great influence in politic fields. Of course they would not let this happended easily as this New Scheme will seriously affect the income of GP (General Practitioner,medical doctor who work in the community). Therefore, MMA will try to do everything to delay the implemention of the new scheme such as question the ability of the pharmacist.

On the other hand, majority of Malaysian do not know the significance of this new scheme and they will only think that this new scheme is too much hassle for them instead of provide them a better therapeutic control.

[tehjiao]

I hope all the medics do not forget the existence of Pharmacist in the field of health care professional.

I also hope all the medics understand the role of pharmacist in order to work together to achieve a better patient care.

Last but not least, i hope all the medics don't not think that they are more supperior than anyone else in Hospital becoz they r not God and they also not expert in everything. They need pharmacists, nurses, lab assistants and all the para medics to achieve their therapeutic goal.

Well, as soul_out said, it really needs everybody in the system to benefit the patients, i don't think that Doctor ALONE can handle all the stuffs. In fact, i do think that our country really needs more medical stuffs including nurses,Medical assisstant and pharmacy to improve our system as i know that in foreign country there are Clinical pharmacy who help to determine which drugs is most suitable for patients as doctor alone can't really remember and know the least drug-drug interaction and latest drug which is usefull for patient. Anyway, there may be some doctors who think they are superior, but i would say, a doctor is just a 'Servant' nowaday, which is not really a worth while job if u consider the time,energy and money spent for the course......personally, i would say, i choose this career is just simply because that i'm interested.
Anyway, every career has its problem and challenge, hopes that everybody will love their choice and won't regret.


First and foremost, the population of Pharmacist is still significantly lower than the ideal number in order to make this new health scheme successful.

The Malaysia Medical Association (MMA, Medical Doctor's society) is a very strong society and having great influence in politic fields. Of course they would not let this happended easily as this New Scheme will seriously affect the income of GP (General Practitioner,medical doctor who work in the community). Therefore, MMA will try to do everything to delay the implemention of the new scheme such as question the ability of the pharmacist.

On the other hand, majority of Malaysian do not know the significance of this new scheme and they will only think that this new scheme is too much hassle for them instead of provide them a better therapeutic control.

I agree with soul_out, but just would like to add that everything will change when the time is suitable for the changes. At the moment as a developing country like M'sia, i don't think that we can really afford the cost to ask the public to get medication from pharmacy. GP's charge right now normally includes consultant fee and drugs.In Butterworth(Penang), some just charge RM15 for each patient and i think it's consider cheap enough.(I heard in some places charge RM 40 each), just imagine that if patient needed to pay consultant fee for RM15 with no medication and pay another RM10 for the drugs from pharmacy. It's just a simple calculation, don't blame that doctor should charge at lower price as we should consider that it's not easy to become a profession. Anyway, when Malaysian become richer in future, i think it would be nice to have that system as it can avoid unethical doctor selling cheap/unsuitable drugs for patient.

[tehjiao]

I hope all the medics do not forget the existence of Pharmacist in the field of health care professional.

I also hope all the medics understand the role of pharmacist in order to work together to achieve a better patient care.

Last but not least, i hope all the medics don't not think that they are more supperior than anyone else in Hospital becoz they r not God and they also not expert in everything. They need pharmacists, nurses, lab assistants and all the para medics to achieve their therapeutic goal.

Well, as soul_out said, it really needs everybody in the system to benefit the patients, i don't think that Doctor ALONE can handle all the stuffs. In fact, i do think that our country really needs more medical stuffs including nurses,Medical assisstant and pharmacy to improve our system as i know that in foreign country there are Clinical pharmacy who help to determine which drugs is most suitable for patients as doctor alone can't really remember and know the least drug-drug interaction and latest drug which is usefull for patient. Anyway, there may be some doctors who think they are superior, but i would say, a doctor is just a 'Servant' nowaday, which is not really a worth while job if u consider the time,energy and money spent for the course......personally, i would say, i choose this career is just simply because that i'm interested.
Anyway, every career has its problem and challenge, hopes that everybody will love their choice and won't regret.


First and foremost, the population of Pharmacist is still significantly lower than the ideal number in order to make this new health scheme successful.

The Malaysia Medical Association (MMA, Medical Doctor's society) is a very strong society and having great influence in politic fields. Of course they would not let this happended easily as this New Scheme will seriously affect the income of GP (General Practitioner,medical doctor who work in the community). Therefore, MMA will try to do everything to delay the implemention of the new scheme such as question the ability of the pharmacist.

On the other hand, majority of Malaysian do not know the significance of this new scheme and they will only think that this new scheme is too much hassle for them instead of provide them a better therapeutic control.

I agree with soul_out, but just would like to add that everything will change when the time is suitable for the changes. At the moment as a developing country like M'sia, i don't think that we can really afford the cost to ask the public to get medication from pharmacy. GP's charge right now normally includes consultant fee and drugs.In Butterworth(Penang), some just charge RM15 for each patient and i think it's consider cheap enough.(I heard in some places charge RM 40 each), just imagine that if patient needed to pay consultant fee for RM15 with no medication and pay another RM10 for the drugs from pharmacy. It's just a simple calculation, don't blame that doctor should charge at lower price as we should consider that it's not easy to become a profession. Anyway, when Malaysian become richer in future, i think it would be nice to have that system as it can avoid unethical doctor selling cheap/unsuitable drugs for patient.

[lee4ever]

Hi everyone!
Noticed that our SIG is getting kinda dull. No offence, though, to the esteemed moderator. Hope I can help!
I dunno whether is it just my observation but I can't help to notice the scarcity of medics in ReCom. Maybe it's because the workload is too much, that they can't afford the time!

Yup... I've gotta agree with Tehjiao that medicine is indeed one of the longest if not the longest, undergraduate course in the whole world. Plus, from what I gathered, it's one tough, demanding & challenging course. Well, the same can be said for the job itself, except maybe it's much worse! It is said that the 'crappiest' time of a doc is during the housemanship period.

Since Tehjiao has given a brief overview of the medical course in Malaysia, here's what I know about the medical course in the UK.
Basically, from what I know, the medical course in Uni Malaya (UM) is based on the traditonal UK system of teaching. Thus, that's why the initials awarded to the graduates from UM is the MBBS, as opposed to the MD initials awarded elsewhere. If I'm not wrong, the courses elsewhere, namely in USM & UKM, is based on the newer, integrated, systems-based curriculum, which originated from the US, I think...
(Tehjiao.. does USM adopt problem-based learning (PBL) like they do in the US, most UK unis & IMU)
Currently, in the UK, the emphasis is on the integrated approach, systems based & PBL-style of learning. I can safely say that to keep up with the times, most UK medical schools have adopted the integrated, systems-based way of teaching, in line with the UK Government's proposal "Tomorrow's Doctors" some time ago. As for PBL (which has its roots from the US), medical schools such as Manchester & Liverpool, have fully embraced this methodology of teaching, while majority of the med schools have only incorporated PBL into certain aspects of its teaching.

OK for the benefit of our non-medic friends, I'll explain what the terms 'integrated system', 'PBL' & "systems-based' mean.

Firstly, for a school adopting the integrated approach, there's usually no distinction between the pre-clinical & clinical years. So, students here get to have 'hands-on' experience from as early as Year 1. Fun, eh? On the contrary, the opposite to this would be the traditonal non-integrated approach, formerly used by all UK medical schools. For this approach, it's all study, study study during the preclinical years and absolutely no clinical exposure. Well, the emphasis of this traditionalist concept is to build a solid, scienetific foundation in the student before exposing him/her to the more practical, clinical side of medicine. The modern approach, on the other hand, places importance in the practice of medicine, not so much on the theoretical part.

As for 'systems-based', it simply means that teaching is done based on the systems of the human body, e.g. cardiovascular, respiratory etc. Say, if we're studying the human nervous system, we'll learn everthing there is to be learned about that system, from the anatomical all the way to the physiological aspect of it. On the other hand, the opposite to this would be the traditional 'subjects-based' approach. This simply means that studies are done based on subjects e.g. anatomy, physiology, etc etc.

Finally, PBL. I guess this concept is somewhat self-explanatory. Students are divided into small groups, they are given a case-study and they're expected to complete some specified task.

So, if any of you out there who intends to study medicine in the UK, you'll have plenty of options. If you like the integrated, systems-based PBL approach, then you could consider nearly all the unis there. Reputable & famous universities using this system include Edinburgh, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Glasgow etc etc. (Basically, all except Oxbridge) True to their traditionalist attitude & conservative mindset, Oxford & Cambridge adopt... yup, you guessed it right... the traditonal non-integrated, subject-based non-PBL style of teaching! The rationale behind this is simply because Oxbridge is not that interested in producing 'good' docs to serve the community, but rather, medical scientist with an MBBS, to venture into med research. Well, that's quite normal considering the fact that Oxbridge places haevy emphasis on research.

The initials conferred by UK unis may vary, but they basically mean the same thing. London medical schools all confer the MB,BS initials, Newcastle too. Most UK med schools confer the MB,ChB initials, with Nottingham giving the B,MBS and Southhampton giving the BM initials. As for Oxbridge, Oxford awards the BM,BCh while Cambridge awards the MB,BChir initials. Irish medical schools (including Northern Irish schools) however, confer the MB,BCh,BAO initials. In short, whatever the heck those initials may be, it all means the same: Bachelor of Medicine & Bachelor of Surgery. The variation between these initials only serve to distinguish which med school a doc comes from!

OK lar, gotta go! If anyone has any question about UK med schools, I'd be happy to answer (though I don't profess absolute knowledge & authority over this!)

[lee4ever]

Hi everyone!
Noticed that our SIG is getting kinda dull. No offence, though, to the esteemed moderator. Hope I can help!
I dunno whether is it just my observation but I can't help to notice the scarcity of medics in ReCom. Maybe it's because the workload is too much, that they can't afford the time!

Yup... I've gotta agree with Tehjiao that medicine is indeed one of the longest if not the longest, undergraduate course in the whole world. Plus, from what I gathered, it's one tough, demanding & challenging course. Well, the same can be said for the job itself, except maybe it's much worse! It is said that the 'crappiest' time of a doc is during the housemanship period.

Since Tehjiao has given a brief overview of the medical course in Malaysia, here's what I know about the medical course in the UK.
Basically, from what I know, the medical course in Uni Malaya (UM) is based on the traditonal UK system of teaching. Thus, that's why the initials awarded to the graduates from UM is the MBBS, as opposed to the MD initials awarded elsewhere. If I'm not wrong, the courses elsewhere, namely in USM & UKM, is based on the newer, integrated, systems-based curriculum, which originated from the US, I think...
(Tehjiao.. does USM adopt problem-based learning (PBL) like they do in the US, most UK unis & IMU)
Currently, in the UK, the emphasis is on the integrated approach, systems based & PBL-style of learning. I can safely say that to keep up with the times, most UK medical schools have adopted the integrated, systems-based way of teaching, in line with the UK Government's proposal "Tomorrow's Doctors" some time ago. As for PBL (which has its roots from the US), medical schools such as Manchester & Liverpool, have fully embraced this methodology of teaching, while majority of the med schools have only incorporated PBL into certain aspects of its teaching.

OK for the benefit of our non-medic friends, I'll explain what the terms 'integrated system', 'PBL' & "systems-based' mean.

Firstly, for a school adopting the integrated approach, there's usually no distinction between the pre-clinical & clinical years. So, students here get to have 'hands-on' experience from as early as Year 1. Fun, eh? On the contrary, the opposite to this would be the traditonal non-integrated approach, formerly used by all UK medical schools. For this approach, it's all study, study study during the preclinical years and absolutely no clinical exposure. Well, the emphasis of this traditionalist concept is to build a solid, scienetific foundation in the student before exposing him/her to the more practical, clinical side of medicine. The modern approach, on the other hand, places importance in the practice of medicine, not so much on the theoretical part.

As for 'systems-based', it simply means that teaching is done based on the systems of the human body, e.g. cardiovascular, respiratory etc. Say, if we're studying the human nervous system, we'll learn everthing there is to be learned about that system, from the anatomical all the way to the physiological aspect of it. On the other hand, the opposite to this would be the traditional 'subjects-based' approach. This simply means that studies are done based on subjects e.g. anatomy, physiology, etc etc.

Finally, PBL. I guess this concept is somewhat self-explanatory. Students are divided into small groups, they are given a case-study and they're expected to complete some specified task.

So, if any of you out there who intends to study medicine in the UK, you'll have plenty of options. If you like the integrated, systems-based PBL approach, then you could consider nearly all the unis there. Reputable & famous universities using this system include Edinburgh, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Glasgow etc etc. (Basically, all except Oxbridge) True to their traditionalist attitude & conservative mindset, Oxford & Cambridge adopt... yup, you guessed it right... the traditonal non-integrated, subject-based non-PBL style of teaching! The rationale behind this is simply because Oxbridge is not that interested in producing 'good' docs to serve the community, but rather, medical scientist with an MBBS, to venture into med research. Well, that's quite normal considering the fact that Oxbridge places haevy emphasis on research.

The initials conferred by UK unis may vary, but they basically mean the same thing. London medical schools all confer the MB,BS initials, Newcastle too. Most UK med schools confer the MB,ChB initials, with Nottingham giving the B,MBS and Southhampton giving the BM initials. As for Oxbridge, Oxford awards the BM,BCh while Cambridge awards the MB,BChir initials. Irish medical schools (including Northern Irish schools) however, confer the MB,BCh,BAO initials. In short, whatever the heck those initials may be, it all means the same: Bachelor of Medicine & Bachelor of Surgery. The variation between these initials only serve to distinguish which med school a doc comes from!

OK lar, gotta go! If anyone has any question about UK med schools, I'd be happy to answer (though I don't profess absolute knowledge & authority over this!)

[soul_out]

lee4ever, i think Uni of Glasgow's medicine course is no longer using PBL...correct me if i'm wrong.

[soul_out]

lee4ever, i think Uni of Glasgow's medicine course is no longer using PBL...correct me if i'm wrong.

[chenchow]

lee4ever and everyone, bring more medicine, pharmacy friends to ReCom~! Then, this place will be an active one!!!

[chenchow]

lee4ever and everyone, bring more medicine, pharmacy friends to ReCom~! Then, this place will be an active one!!!

[lee4ever]

soul_out, umm... initially, I thought that I was wrong in saying that Glasgow uses PBL in its teaching, since you're studying there in Glasgow & might have known things about your uni & its med school that I don't know. After all, I gotta admit that my knowledge on this matter is rather limited. As I didn't apply to Glasgow, I didn't read into detail about the medical course offered there. In addition, the teaching policy varies, be it slightly or otherwise, from one UK med school to another.

So, I checked up the Glasgow's med school website & found that PBL is definitely 'alive & kicking' in Glasgow! Hehe..
Furthermore, Glasgow is twinned with IMU and considering the fact that PBL is practised by IMU, it is very likely that Glasgow adopts PBL as well. A check with the Glaspow website confirms this.

chenchow, I've already put up a link to ReCom from my A-Level Medicine yahoogroup. Hopefully, my coursemates will take note of it.

[lee4ever]

soul_out, umm... initially, I thought that I was wrong in saying that Glasgow uses PBL in its teaching, since you're studying there in Glasgow & might have known things about your uni & its med school that I don't know. After all, I gotta admit that my knowledge on this matter is rather limited. As I didn't apply to Glasgow, I didn't read into detail about the medical course offered there. In addition, the teaching policy varies, be it slightly or otherwise, from one UK med school to another.

So, I checked up the Glasgow's med school website & found that PBL is definitely 'alive & kicking' in Glasgow! Hehe..
Furthermore, Glasgow is twinned with IMU and considering the fact that PBL is practised by IMU, it is very likely that Glasgow adopts PBL as well. A check with the Glaspow website confirms this.

chenchow, I've already put up a link to ReCom from my A-Level Medicine yahoogroup. Hopefully, my coursemates will take note of it.

[soul_out]

Hi lee4ever, thanks for checking in the website. IMU for sure have PBL as i was from there, doing a twinning Pharmacy course.

I was have a chat with a Glasgow Uni Final Year Medical Student last Sunday after church sermon, that's what according to her. Well, i will ask her again on Sunday.... :D

Will keep all of us update soon!

[soul_out]

Hi lee4ever, thanks for checking in the website. IMU for sure have PBL as i was from there, doing a twinning Pharmacy course.

I was have a chat with a Glasgow Uni Final Year Medical Student last Sunday after church sermon, that's what according to her. Well, i will ask her again on Sunday.... :D

Will keep all of us update soon!

[soul_out]

lee4ever, i've found out that PBL is exist in Uni. of Glasgow, and it is playikng a major part of their medicine course. Sorry for confusing you in the previous msg.

When the new system is started bout 8 years ago, they emphasise too much on PBL, till they student call their course "DIY medicine course". It's getting better nowadays as they replace some PBL sessions to lectures.

If a medical school emphasise too much on PBL, it will end up either produce a very good medical doctor, or a very bad 1. Lectures is important as the lecturer will tell what is important and what is not.

[soul_out]

lee4ever, i've found out that PBL is exist in Uni. of Glasgow, and it is playikng a major part of their medicine course. Sorry for confusing you in the previous msg.

When the new system is started bout 8 years ago, they emphasise too much on PBL, till they student call their course "DIY medicine course". It's getting better nowadays as they replace some PBL sessions to lectures.

If a medical school emphasise too much on PBL, it will end up either produce a very good medical doctor, or a very bad 1. Lectures is important as the lecturer will tell what is important and what is not.

[tehjiao]

Well, usm also PBL as core of the course. however, students here feel that it's poorly organized and conducted, make pbl becomes 'photocopy base learning'. sometimes, even the tutor also not clear about pbl and their roles. they just come in and sleep there or read newspaper without giving any guide.if this is the purpose of pbl, we would rather prefer a time slot for self study, even better and more benefitial. i don't know about other uni have similar problem or not but i do think that this is a GOOD system as long as we know how to conduct it.

[tehjiao]

Well, usm also PBL as core of the course. however, students here feel that it's poorly organized and conducted, make pbl becomes 'photocopy base learning'. sometimes, even the tutor also not clear about pbl and their roles. they just come in and sleep there or read newspaper without giving any guide.if this is the purpose of pbl, we would rather prefer a time slot for self study, even better and more benefitial. i don't know about other uni have similar problem or not but i do think that this is a GOOD system as long as we know how to conduct it.

[soul_out]

Ya tehjiao, it is a good system but it's still new. In IMU, PBL is running well and attendance is complusory.

[soul_out]

Ya tehjiao, it is a good system but it's still new. In IMU, PBL is running well and attendance is complusory.

[tehjiao]

In usm the attendance is also compulsory...frankly speaking, when we meet a good clinician who know how to guide student, it's really a wonderful experience learning medicine from him, as he'll show u the art and the logical thinking in medicine....however, most of the time, students always have non-clinician as their tutor (eg. microbiologist, physiologist, radiologist, pathologist, community medicine.....which they used to come and sit till the end of session without talking)
:cry:

[tehjiao]

In usm the attendance is also compulsory...frankly speaking, when we meet a good clinician who know how to guide student, it's really a wonderful experience learning medicine from him, as he'll show u the art and the logical thinking in medicine....however, most of the time, students always have non-clinician as their tutor (eg. microbiologist, physiologist, radiologist, pathologist, community medicine.....which they used to come and sit till the end of session without talking)
:cry:

[jasminenanook]

Hey...was browsing the site and realised that there is actually a forum for medics hehe :) Lee4ever, wow...I think you have really done your research quite thoroughly :P Congrats on ur Cambridge offer hehe...And yea...Glasgow is PBL all right, I remotely remember being fired with many many questions during my interview pertaining to whether I could handle PBL if I were to go to Glasgow. As for your question whether med school is stressful...well...life is what you make of it I suppose. Speaking from my own point of view, I am completing my 2nd year in Uni of Nottingham med school, I have to be honest and tell you that they push us to our limits. As you may well know, I will graduate with 2 degrees, i.e. BMBS and BMedSci (compulsory intercalated year) Hence I have 9-5pm classes daily and about 10 papers each time we sit for a major exam (as opposed to 3 papers in law and 5 papers in engineering...for instance :P ) But all the same, all the Malaysians here enjoy our uni life to the fullest. People who enjoy the clubs go out partying every week, the top student here is a Malaysian, and he plays volleyball for the university, so on so forth...I myself am extremely active in Nottingham malaysian soc. Dunno whether you have heard of the 'famous' Nottingham Malaysian Games every year. where Malaysian from everywhere meet in the midlands :D So yea...life is stressful but fun. I know every uni structure their medical courses differently, but I think we all have hands on approach very early on in the course (my 3rd week in 1st year!) Notts course is system based with PBL thrown about in various aspects of the course. I am quite thankful that I realise before I made my uni choice that total PBL is not something I would want to do. I think it is individual's decision and preferance, what might be appealing to some might not be to the rest. hehe...So yea...if u want to ask me anything...just drop me a message...hehe...hope to see u in UK soon then! ~Jasmine~

[tehjiao]

welcome Jasmine! Feel free to share and chat in this forum as we need more and more people to get involve and voice out their opinion here. To me , i think every system has its strong and weak point but the most important thing is depend on the people who handle it as the system is dead but human is alive and controlling the system.
I agree that life in medic is stressful but enjoyable as well. may be we can share more about our uni life here. :)

[The_Observer]

Feels nice to be with fellow Malaysians who are in the same course...though in different parts of the world.

I will not make comments on medical courses and medical schools in this post, as I always do...but I will make this point:

Malaysia had, can and will produce many excellent doctors. The only thing is, our Goverment has failed us. Our health system still belong to the independence era (50s-60s), only larger. Medical education still lags behind a lot of countries. The private medical system now rules the field. There are just so much to say...

BTW, to pharmacists. We do not need too many of you. Thinking of bringing Malaysia to becoming a modern state? We are better of with more trained nurses or physiotherapists than pharmacists.
An effective public health system will destroy Malaysian interests in pharmacy. But, you guys are lucky the Government hadn't do anything yet...

[Dandelion]

hi, i'm kinda thinking whether to change to a physics/chem package instead of Bio/chem for stpm. however, i want to know whether i can still be a doctor? does any public uni in Malaysia accept that to enter medic? What about foreign universities? :?

[jo_n]

hi, i'm kinda thinking whether to change to a physics/chem package instead of Bio/chem for stpm. however, i want to know whether i can still be a doctor? does any public uni in Malaysia accept that to enter medic? What about foreign universities? :?

dun worry, even u r a physic/chem student, u can still apply for medic, that's applicable until for my batch (2000). i was a bio/maths student, but the requirement in local uni for medicine did not limit to bio/maths only. so go ahead, or u can go check the info w/ seniors closer to ur age group. (as if i'm already an oldie!!! :lol: )

i'm now studying my third year( clinical year) in IMU medicine programme in seremban. seremban is the only local clinical school and here the study schedule really differs greatly from those in pre-clinical years in Bukit Jalil.
we still have PBL, but more emphasis on TBL (task based learning) basically they r the same thing, just that in Bkt Jalil, there r 2 PBL sessions in 1 week, while here, only 1 TBL session on one topic, not mentioning we can have 5 TBLs on different topics in 1 week itself (That's absolutely crazy, i assure u). i think, if i'm not wrong, other partnership school of IMU conduct PBL once a week, w/ students do some reading n preparation before the session n contribute in the session w/ whatever they have studied. Bkt Jalil, they gather for the 1st PBL, decide on what aspects to study on certain topic, let's say Shortness of breath, then go back study n find info, then come back again in another day to present or discuss. TBL here in seremban we know the topics to be discussed from the timetable given to us, then we have to do some pre-reading, n come together to discuss, with some real-cases presented by few students. we then discuss the case abt the causes, management n treatment etc etc...
PBL can be quite boring if the participants just read from papers n not active. few occasions i found them to be interesting, although most of them r beneficial (we did learn from the session). it also largely depend on the facilitator (doctors) who conduct them.
clinical years, like the name suggest itself, we spent most of the time in the ward. for clerking cases, to teaching ward rounds, oh yeah, our TBL here start off in the ward, where we see the patients n then we go other places to discuss the cases. at least every morning we have to be in the wards. we can do many simple procedures n see many high tech procedures.
we have to study 4 semester in seremban clinical then finish our last semester in batu pahat before we graduate.

[blackkirin]

What about UCSI??
anyone frm UCSI??
how is its reputation? facilities? accreditation??

[Too_Old]

Hi. Would like to make some comments on doctors & pharmacists.

Consider these scenarios.

1. You go to see a doctor and he is only charging your say...RM30 that includes consultation and medicine. Now let's be honest....do you think that doctor would give you the best medicine or the cheapest medicine that would still work both at the same price of RM30? FYI, the cheapest non-original (generic) medicine can cost only a tenth of the best quality original branded and it's not for you to choose.

2. Being human being, a doctor made a mistake and prescribed 2 drugs that has serious interaction that can proof fatal. Who is there to watch out for those? The Form V dispensing girl he employed to dish out those tablets?

3. You have a fever for a few days and do you want to join the long queue at the doctor's clinic or just pop into the ever available pharmacy. And let the pharmacist use his knowledge to ascertain whether a simple Panadol would do or you need more serious doctor follow-up?

These 3 scenarios illustrate several things:

1. If you wanted the BEST medical care, you will have to pay for it like everything else in life and in this case, you have to pay BOTH the doctor and the pharmacist.

2. In West, pharmacist are professionally and legally held responsible TOGETHER with the doctors should drug interaction went unnoticed

3. Without the legal right to oversee & supply what's written in the medicine prescription, the pharmacist is just a glorified shop keeper in Malaysia and being unappreciated. Hence the comment that we do not need many pharmacists. Employing Form V school leaver to do with the dishing out of medicine is good enough.

4. MMA reason against the separation of prescribing and dispensing has always been "not enough pharmacist". So are we saying just because we also don't have enough doctors, we should not give doctor the sole right of diagnosis? And any Tom, Dick & Harry can now go out and perform the role of doctors? To me, money is the reason.

My 2 sen.

[pangping1510]

UNSW Medicine

I am only in first year, so I am going to talk about my first year programme.

We are doing SBL-scenario based learning. We have 2-3 scenarios every course (3 courses this year). Then we will have lectures, science practicals, scenario group sessions related to the scenario. We even start clinical sessions already in the very first week! We have communication tutorials and already started taking medical history. Very good ratio for all the activities, and we do not need to fight to touch cadavers! We have much free time for self-directed learning and doing our projects. All in all, it is a very new programme, only 4th year in implementation. Anyhow, i like the way it is because I dont want to be spoonfed cuz its not cool. As I have said, I am still in the first year, and i cant say much about it yet. Will update more. =)

[tehjiao]

Update 2008: I think newbies can continue to discuss this topic under this thread.

[wgy589]

hey, i'll be havin my finals in 3 weeks time. By the time i'll finish my 1st year and shall talk abt my experience there. i'm from NUS year 1 tho.

i hope more of us can contribute to this thread as i find it quite beneficial to noe the experience of medical students in diff med skols.

[tehjiao]

yes wgy, please do so and share with us

[nameloo]

Hey everyone!!

Ok i'm new here n need to know a whole of things!

Ok, i know the basic way to pursue medicine in UK specially, need me to go for A-Level

Ok my family can't afford it so i go for biology class instead in Lower 6 this year.

So, do i still have the chance to study in UK for medicine after my STPM?

How n what should i do now?

THX

[TheArtOfMedicine]

Hey everyone!!

Ok i'm new here n need to know a whole of things!

Ok, i know the basic way to pursue medicine in UK specially, need me to go for A-Level

Ok my family can't afford it so i go for biology class instead in Lower 6 this year.

So, do i still have the chance to study in UK for medicine after my STPM?

How n what should i do now?

THX


Hi there, in response to your question:

You can definitely apply to the UK medical schools with your STPM results. As you may not be aware, STPM is a widely recognised qualification and it has, in fact, quite a good reputation in many other countries. However, do bear in mind that whilst it MAY be harder to score As in STPM(as compared to A levels), you will not gain an advatage over your peers who're doing A levels.(assuming both scored the same grades)

Cheers
TheArtofMedicine

[eve88]

I'll throw in my hat - I'm a second year medical student (uh, even though its only my 1st year at med school) in University of Otago. Its a 6 year course.

Year 1 - First Year Health Sciences - is the selection year. Everyone applying for normal entry takes this (the postgraduate entry has different selection criteria), and the top 200 or so out of roughly 1600 taking the course get into medicine.

Papers taken in Semester 1 are : Physics, Chemistry, Cellular and Molecular Biology (CELS) & Human Body Systems 1 (HUBS1). Physics and Chem ends up roughly about Alevel+ standard, CELS corresponds to ALevels Biology (the cellular and genetics components) but slightly more in depth, HUBS is an intro to human anatomy and physiology. In Sem 2, the papers are Epidemiology, Biochemistry, and HUBS2. Epidemiology is ... um... stats without math, really. HUBS2 is continuation of HUBS1 but with different systems. Biochem goes into structures of organic molecules (eg glycogen, globular proteins, collagen) and some stuff about metabolic processes.
In general, the papers are easy, but it is competitive entry, so to get into med your average of the 7 papers needs to be in the high 80s.

----

Year 2 & 3 - Pre-Clinical Years.
The course is made of 4 components : Integrated Cases (IC), Clinical Skills (CS), Healthcare in the Community(HIC) and the Modules/Lectures/Labs. For IC, CS, and HIC there is 1 2hour tutorial each week.

The bulk of teaching, however, is done in the module component - about 6 hours of lectures + 2 hour tutorial + 2 x 2 hour lab each week, on average. This is where we learn the nuts and bolts of the human body - Anatomy, Physiology, Pathology, Pharmacology, Histology, Microbiology and Immunology, Ethics, Preventive Medicine etc. Basically know the basics of every system.
In 2nd year - Musculoskeletal, Cardiovascular, Respiratory, Gastrointestinal
In 3rd year - Renal, Endocrine, Nervous System

Integrated Cases is analogous to PBL - we get given a case scenario (in more than half of these they interview a patient in the lecture theater) and then discuss the case and answer the questions given to us.

Clinical Skills - In 2nd year, that's the basic consultation/interview process, the GALS examination (for musculo-skeletal), auscultation and taking BP (for Cardiovascular and Respiratory), etc.
Not sure what they learn in 3rd year, but apparently we practice taking blood from each other. =D

Healthcare in the Community - we get to meet and interview patients, as well as take place in 1 clinical placement/attachment a year. Also learn about cultural issues, disabilities, etc.

----
Years 4 and 5 are the Clinical Years: so its rotations in the wards. Final examinations happens at the end of year 5.

Year 6 is what they call the Trainee Intern (TI) year - you are not really a student, as you do get paid for your work, and you do work full time in a hospital, but you are not yet a doctor - you cannot take responsibility for patients for anything. NO EXAMS, so apparently it is a bit more relaxed compared to 5th year.

The MBChB is given at the end of year 6.
---

And then its 2 years of houseman, 3-6 years registrar + specialist training etc....