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View Full Version : 'Elite' college students don't earn higher pay or status


Dr_Tay
07-04-2006, 11:08 PM
ANN ARBOR, Mich.---As high school seniors and their anxious parents receive news from colleges this spring, a new study provides unexpected insights into the long-term impact of admissions decisions.

"Elite" college students do not make more money than other college students, or hold higher status jobs in their 20s, 30s or 50s, the study shows.

"While many students from elite colleges enjoy successful careers, their success is not the result of attending elite schools," said University of Michigan sociologist Jennie Brand, lead author of the study. "Instead, it's the result of characteristics such as scholastic achievement and parents' income that influence both the probability that they will attend an elite school and their future career outcomes."

The study, forthcoming in the journal Social Science Research, followed 1,733 men who graduated from Wisconsin high schools in 1957 and went to college within two years.

"One of the strengths of this study is that we were able to look at the outcomes up to 35 years after students graduated from high school---during their early-, mid- and late-careers," said Brand, who is affiliated with the U-M Institute for Social Research and the U-M School of Public Health.

Taking a long-term approach yields some important information in the ongoing debate about how important it really is to attend a top college, she says.

For the study, Brand and co-author Charles Halaby of the University of Wisconsin used propensity score matching methods, an econometric technique rarely used in studies of elite college effects. Using a wide variety of relevant characteristics, including mental ability, high school grades, college preparatory programs and family background, the researchers matched students who attended elite schools to otherwise equivalent students who attended less prestigious colleges.

Then they compared the actual effects of attending one type of college or the other, and the potential effects of attending the type of college each student did not, in fact, attend.

To identify elite schools, the researchers used Barron's Profiles, the only authoritative ranking available for that period of time. Colleges in the "most competitive" and "highly competitive" categories were considered elite for the study purposes. Among the elite schools respondents in the study attended were Lawrence University, Northwestern University, Dartmouth, Carleton College, Wellesley, Cornell, Duke and the University of Chicago.

Students who attended an elite college were about 6 percent more likely than other students to graduate from college and they were 12.5 percent more likely to earn an advanced degree. But using the potential outcome matching technique, researchers found that equivalent students who attended less selective colleges would have been four times as likely to graduate if they had attended elite schools.

In terms of occupational status and wages, elite college students showed no significant gains in their early, mid or late careers. In contrast, students who attended less selective schools would have had occupational status gains throughout their careers had they attended elite schools. These gains were significant---the difference, for example, between being a designer and an architect.

Brand cautioned that the analysis pertains to a single cohort of males who entered college in the early 1960s.

"The market for higher education has shifted in the direction of greater selectivity," Brand said. "This process could tend to increase elite college effects, but the jury is still out on this."

According to Brand, the findings also suggest the importance of outreach programs to encourage more students to attend elite schools.

"Students who otherwise might not apply to or attend these schools are the ones who might obtain the most benefit from the experience," she said.

Brand is a Robert Wood Johnson Health & Society Scholar.
http://www.umich.edu/news/index.html?Releases/2006/Apr06/r040606

iQing
08-04-2006, 02:52 AM
I heard many local graduates are jobless.

digimushu
08-04-2006, 06:49 AM
Frankly speaking, most universities are overrated, what becomes of you after you graduate is dependent on how you make use of your university experience.

lyzzy
08-04-2006, 08:10 AM
I think we should stop this trend of cutting-and-pasting news stories in recom without giving any opinion whatsoever.
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Thirdshifter
08-04-2006, 10:08 AM
I think we should stop this trend of cutting-and-pasting news stories in recom without giving any opinion whatsoever.

concur..

Dr_Tay
08-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Lots of Malaysian students have gone to Australian and American universities only to find out later when they return that there isn't a premium to the degree that they have earned. What is worse is that most of the degrees that they have earned are for export purposes by the country awarding that degree so much so that they are not really recognised at home but in foreign lands if might it be.

To Iyzzy's point by pasting this article is evidence that some empirical research has been done to prove that this issue is taken seriously in the academic circles and that degrees from Ivy Leagues are not necessary what they seem to profess they are suppose to deliver to Asian students who seem to think that the West can produce much better education than the East.

Asian students should not be lulled into the feeling that Ivy Leagues will get them a job but like many American students get them into debt and find that they cannot pay the sum owed for many years. Many of these Ivy Leagues are very expensive and with the foreign exchange worse for the Asian students.

lyzzy
08-04-2006, 12:06 PM
Asian students should not be lulled into the feeling that Ivy Leagues will get them a job but like many American students get them into debt and find that they cannot pay the sum owed for many years. Many of these Ivy Leagues are very expensive and with the foreign exchange worse for the Asian students.

Actually, a lot of international students who get degrees from an Ivy League school will get it at a (relatively) cheap price.

Also, I wonder why you mention 'Ivy League' instead of the term elite schools (as the article uses) like 'Lawrence University, Northwestern University, Dartmouth, Carleton College, Wellesley, Cornell, Duke and the University of Chicago'. While Dartmouth and Chicago are Ivies, me thinks that you use the word 'Ivy League' with abandon, to make your sentence more impressive.

I do agree with certain points in the article, but the purpose is to calm down high school applicants, not to dissuade people from applying.
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strikingstar
08-04-2006, 12:10 PM
lyzzy! I'm surprised at you. U Chic is no ivy. It's Dart and Cornell that are the only ivies out of all the schools mentioned.

lyzzy
08-04-2006, 11:46 PM
yeah, I forgot to mention cornell. but U Chicago is not an Ivy - ??
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juventus
08-04-2006, 11:59 PM
yeah, I forgot to mention cornell. but U Chicago is not an Ivy - ??

Nope, it's not.
There are only eight of them. There are also little Ivies.

The eight Ivy League members:
-Brown
-Cornell
-Dartsmouth
-Columbia
-Harvard
-Pennsylvania
-Princeton
-Yale

Little Ivies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ivies

lyzzy
09-04-2006, 12:11 AM
wow. somehow, it was always ingrained in me that Uchicago is an Ivy.
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bush
09-04-2006, 12:31 AM
wow. somehow, it was always ingrained in me that Uchicago is an Ivy.

Well, it can't be denied that the standards at Chicago are similar to the other 8.

strikingstar
09-04-2006, 12:54 AM
Actually, the ivy league is first and foremost an athletic conference. ATHLETICS not ACADEMICS. It just so happens that they're all undeniably great in academics as well.

However, there are many other schools out there that are just as good if not better than some of the ivies. Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, or Duke and U Chic as mentioned in Dr Tay's 'elite college post' just to name a few. So much so that even lyzzy here, whose school is in the league, thinks that U Chic is an ivy as well. :D

Oh, and there are great LACs as well like Williams (need blind to all international students) and Amherst if one doesn't really like a big research university.

zAiTsEv
09-04-2006, 01:02 AM
Actually, the ivy league is first and foremost an athletic conference. ATHLETICS not ACADEMICS.

Too bad, ivy league sports suck now.

chenchow
09-04-2006, 04:59 PM
I would say that the more important issues are how one utilizes their university education. While one can get to the best universities in the world, yet one might just do not learn much. It is about one's initiative to learn and build up experience and exposure. I would say that top-tier universities would help provide more opportunities, but the onus is still upon the students.

And about utilizing opportunities, it varies also, depending on what a student wants to learn. Each university has its uniqueness, and each university has its strength. It really depends on what you hope to build up. Some universities are more diverse. Some are more focused. And each is more suited to a certain group of students. So, I would say that, a more important issue that is at hand, would be on choosing the universities that you think suit you, and then, try to make full use of the resources available there.

And regarding copy and paste on article. I would say that a common practice should be to put the link in ReCom, and let ReComers go to the site and read. And try to post some of your own thoughts. It is great to share, and Dr_Tay, what Lyzzy and thirdshifter has done is just to comment on the way the article is being copied and pasted. We do agree that such articles would open up everyone's mind. And we do not want to get into any copyright infringement issue.