Spoon feeding

[ToietMoi]

Over and over again, I can't seem to avoid bumping onto quotation that condemn "spoon feeding". The way some of you say say it just make as if "spoon feeding", as you call it, is the worst thing one may ask for. Though come to think about it, asking to be informed within a restricted amount of time is the most natural and healthy reaction.

Why do you actually condemn when one is to act smartly by wanting something with the slightest effort? Why do you condemn productivity?

[Salvation]

Why do you actually condemn when one is to act smartly by wanting something with the slightest effort? Why do you condemn productivity?

Is being lazy productive? :)

[Zeroth]

getting spoonfed reduces your ability to obtain information by yourself.

[youngyew]

Over and over again, I can't seem to avoid bumping onto quotation that condemn "spoon feeding". The way some of you say say it just make as if "spoon feeding", as you call it, is the worst thing one may ask for. Though come to think about it, asking to be informed within a restricted amount of time is the most natural and healthy reaction.

Why do you actually condemn when one is to act smartly by wanting something with the slightest effort? Why do you condemn productivity?
By spoon-feeding information, we are only training; but if we acquire knowledge by ourselves, we are learning.

I did write about spoon-feeding a long time ago in my blog (link (http://changyang1230.blogspot.com/2005/01/learner-and-trainee.html)), It's not exactly about spoon-feeding, but I think it's largely similar. I would just copy the article here if you are interested.

There is a stark difference between learning and training. Many are going to scoff at this, but just take it with a pinch of salt if you wish: when your teachers tell you, "please ask others immediately whenever you have questions", they are actually hindering your progress of learning.Throughout the years, I find myself learning stuff differently from some others; and though not intending to boast myself, more often than not I do master certain skills or discipline faster and more dexterously. Many take that as a sign of intelligence, but I can't really agree with it. Take an example, let's say the usage of a piece of a new instrument (computer, hi-fi, software or any other you can think of). When many people are confronted with a new computer, the spontaneous reaction is, "So what should I click on" or "What's next" or "Can I click on that button?". To say the least, this is the subliminal effect of our teacher's adage, ask before you do. Now, wrong, wrong, wrong! While this proved to be the safest way to work around the society and the greatest common denominator of public education, the principle is certainly not a good way of learning. SO what do many people do? They ask for steps, instructions at once, they get it, they practice and regurgitate the steps, and they think that they have LEARNT. Twist the situation a bit, they are shackled.

So this is the situation of our education system - mostly rote memorisation. Here in my beloved country Malaysia, the method is used exclusively in almost all subjects. Even in mathematics I happened to learn that some students tried to memorise all the possible question "types" and their respective "solutions" so that they would hit it in the exam. Sadly they are the ones who scored the worst in the exam. They are not to be mocked at, but I digress.

Going back to "learner vs trainee", to me the difference is a learner learns from his mistakes, while a trainee learns not to make mistakes. If I were to make an analogy, I would liken a learner as a mountaineer who scales the mountain by jungle paths, while a trainee as a traveller who ascends the mountain by climbing stairs. Yes, both of them do reach the acme; and yes, the mountaineer gets bruises and wounds. But at the end of the day, the disparity of skills between them is nothing less than obvious. And I am sure that the mountaineer will move on to conquer another peak.

Hence try to be a learner. I believe that I have always been one, in all my involvements.

[jayden]

Spoon feeding doesn't necessarily mean you're lazy. It can be said that since young we've technically been spoonfed by our parents, teachers and education system. It causes scenarios like when the teacher gives you only the title of a certain project without saying what exactly she wants in it which means it's rather an open topic that students, me included sometimes, are not sure what to do.

I kinda agree with youngyew's opinion. It's rather interesting the way you define training and learning. I have to say that I don't read instructions to any of my electrical appliances :oops: I relied more on common sense and the want to know what happens when you click this or that. Nothing serious would happen anyway if you press the wrong thing altough my brother seems to think that i should definitely read the manuals first.

But learning is important too. Though not in the spoon feeding sense. To ask would make you a fool for 5 minutes, but not asking would make you a fool forever

[youngyew]

But learning is important too. Though not in the spoon feeding sense. To ask would make you a fool for 5 minutes, but not asking would make you a fool forever
Ya I agree... I guess I would have to clarify here that I don't mean we should not ask others for help at all... I would say my main point was, before you ask others for direct instructions / answers, check it out by yourself first. More often than not you will learn more, this way.

[Dr_Tay]

In my many years of teaching I find that students rely on the lecturer to provide notes rather than do the collection of data themselves, decipher the meaning and explain it in their own words. As a result I have to ardously spoonfeed them as without the technique they are unable to function independently. Comes with a mentality of over-subsidy, give, give and over give until the person doesn't think for himself. Maybe it is a way to get society to follow without asking like a heard of sheep.

[Zeroth]

In a way exam orientated systems are facilitating the demand for spoon feeding. This is because there's simply little benefit to pass the exams by self study, i.e: "what i study extra won't be tested, why bother?" kind of thing.

Students should learn the ways to aquire and process new data. This is the real essense of education.

[ToietMoi]

getting spoonfed reduces your ability to obtain information by yourself.
Nah... I really don't think so. Human is just a creature that really knows how to adapt himself. When you can have a direct and precise information without vain, why bother? If not, a normal human being would just try the other way round. On the other hand, refusing what you call as "spoon feed" in any circumstances won't help you in obtaining the one particular information that you need. E.g. some threads where you are supposed to find information are just so long: up to 300 pages!

youngyew, I agree with up to a certain extent. The harder the path, the more one may learn. I will just re-use your analogy about the mountain climbing. I would say, all depend on what is your objectif. Let's say that the second person ascended the mountain by stairs. I would say that the second person would arrive before the mountainer. Let's say that up at the top of the mountain, there are ropes, hooks and climbing shoes. Surely, the mountainer would have got better skills, though not the tools that could help him with his future expedition. As for the second person who climbed up the mountain on stairs, well, he would be much more well-equiped if ever he need to next time. Of course, the mountainer may also but the ropes and stuff at a handy store, or even try to make them himself. Well, my point is you loose your time thus the opportunity to learn or acheive other stuffs by wanting by all means to do it yourself and the hard way.

In my many years of teaching I find that students rely on the lecturer to provide notes rather than do the collection of data themselves, decipher the meaning and explain it in their own words. As a result I have to ardously spoonfeed them as without the technique they are unable to function independently. Comes with a mentality of over-subsidy, give, give and over give until the person doesn't think for himself. Maybe it is a way to get society to follow without asking like a heard of sheep.
No offense but have you ever questioned yourself in the matter of teaching? I do agree that some student just over do it by wanting all to fall down on their knees but if all of your students are like that , maybe what you are teaching them is just not clear enough! I doubt that when you were young, you know exactly what is what, and what is the most important and the least important just after two or three classes, unless being a super genious. Some students just need to be clarified which is more important, and lecturers may provide that with their experience. And stop giving me the crap that giving some facilities to students to comprehend falls desprately as spoon feeding.

[youngyew]

I agree slightly that you may spend more time by doing it all by yourself. However, I am of the opinion that it will be worth it.

By the way, it's unkind of you to accuse Dr Tay as "giving crap". Actually I agree that Malaysian students are relatively much more spoon-fed than some other countries, e.g. Australia. Just ask the employers around the country about their newly-graduated employees... How much of them really know how to use what they have learned? There's really something we can do about in our education, instead of blaming the teachers.

[ToietMoi]

I am not accusing Dr_Tay to be giving craps. Sorry if my statement make it sound like to be. I just warned any following posts, which might insinuate that giving some facilities to students to comprehend falls desprately as spoon feeding. I do understand how annoying it could be for a lecturer to have a helpless student that keep demanding for more even when the tools needed have been provided. Believe me, I used to have a partner for a project that keep demanding for the lecturer at the slightest problem without even trying to solve it himself. It was annoying enough.
And I am not blaming teachers in general. What I wanted to point out is the problem may also come from the teacher. Teaching for me is not a single oriented processus. You give, they receive and they respond. Maybe you would just send it wrongly or perhaps they didn't know how to receive it, or maybe they are just responding badly.
Is being lazy productive? :)
What is lazy for you? working less for you is lazy? I can see that you are in Bordeaux, mean that you are in France. I worked once in a factory in France and discussed with some people over there. Talked about when the 35h per week of legal work was introduced. Do you know that they actually produce the same quantity of machines, now within 35h per week, as before within 40+ hours per week. So then lazy perhaps is being productive. I heard that some entreprises in the states allow having nap in work to enhance productivity. I once heard of a book called "le droit ? la paresse" by I don't know who in the 19th century, which means the right to the laziness. The issue is quite contemporain now.

ps: I checked out wikipedia though I hate to but le droit ? la paresse was written by Paul Lafargue. I ignore merely if the book was ever translated to English.

[Dr_Tay]

Dear Toietmoi,

Please be a lecturer or teacher before giving comments about not teaching properly. Secondly, empathise with teachers in developing countries that don't even have books to teach students with. Get your facts and content straight before getting personal about your criticisms.

Your thread seems to be filled with anger, is it because mistreatment existed? My aim as a lecturer is to facilitate students to be independent minded and successful adults. I use to remember my professors in the West and even though sometimes I disagreed with them I always accorded them respect and high regard as experts in their profession and field. However, I accept the fact there are always some that took the easy way out and that is human nature. But on the whole I take constructive criticisms as a way to improve. Abusive criticism doesn't.

So far most of my students have come back from their studies abroad successful in their careers. I don't ask them to be grateful and ask for nothing, just that they are succesful in their lives. I also like to think that they are proactive and positive about things and not negative about life, no matter what is put in their way.

Students who are abusive usually come from homes that are dysfunctional and I have to guide them back to a path where they are inspirational to themselves and to others around them. Look at oneself first before giving criticisms about others that is what I believe.

Finally, teachers are only human, I have a language teacher that I go to for improvement in languages. She makes mistakes but I don't condemn her. She may have mood swings but it comes with being human. She may be critical but I only take it as being helpful towards assisting in me being a better person. No body is perfect and I have to give her the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to be a spoilt child by expecting her to give me everything and demanding that my fees that I had paid her means that she is a slave to my whims and fancies. I learn from her and hopefully what she has imparted I hope is going to improve my standards of command of the language.

Bon nuit et croire devant parle!

[ToietMoi]

In respond to Dr_tay
I admit that sometimes I may be giving out my opinion quite brusquely. Pardon me for doing so. Though it seems that I may be getting personal, believe me, I am not; at least not in this case.

I do have emphaty with lecturer with lack of facilities in developping countries, so I am with students. The reason why I asked questioned you when you lamented over students' incapacity of funtioning independantly was because I know how a teacher/lecturer may make a difference. Lecturers are no doubt expert in their field, however transmitting their expertise in front of a public by far uneasy. I once had a professor who had been teaching for more than 10 years. He was known to be a great lecturer a year after another. Then came a batch of students who failed nearly in majority every single exams he held. It never happened in his whole career. While most of us students blamed the batch for fooling around, the professor was in deep doubt of himself, questionning his own method. I have yet met any other professor for whom I hold such a respect. It's not easy for students to catch the ball that lecturers try to launch at them, but this professor put all that he may so that they do receive it. That's the end of my anecdote.

After reading your last posts, there's no subsisting doubt that you are a lecturer with concerns for his/her students. I humbly appologize for accusing your teaching method. I have even more empathy with you if you really do have a lot of abusive students.

ps: "Bon nuit et croire devant parle": I really don't get this except for "Bon nuit" which actually should be written "Bonne nuit" (Good night).

[Thirdshifter]

Spoon feeding is a made up word... its an American thing.. it means nothing.

You should know that. Reading is just as spoon feeding as asking a question.

so conclusion is, this thread is based purely on bullshit. Anyone else agrees so we can lock it among with all the other nonsense bullshit thread we have here?

if Only..

[vseehua]

i believe in this thread's context, we are looking at students expecting to be fed everything by their teachers and lecturers like a baby needing to be 'spoon-fed.'

Though i am not really against it, but i am sure everyone agrees that we can let students have more room to think and innovate on things rather than making memorize everything that is thrown at them.

[ToietMoi]

Spoon feeding is a made up word... its an American thing.. it means nothing.

You should know that. Reading is just as spoon feeding as asking a question.

so conclusion is, this thread is based purely on bullshit. Anyone else agrees so we can lock it among with all the other nonsense bullshit thread we have here?

if Only..
It is under "Senseless Debates" though just in case you have not notice. It is basicly senseless. Lock the thread if you wish. Anyway, I think spoon feeding is more like a recommer thing.

[chenchow]

I guess this kind of topic is fine for debates over at ReCom.org . I would say that this helps everyone to put on thinking cap, and hopefully brings us back to the good old days in 2003 and 2004, where a lot of threads in ReCom are more on thinking over issues and debating over more constructive issues.

On spoon feeding, I would say that while it is a form of learning, which unfortunately is the outcome of our education system, I would hope that we could at least try our best to depart from it. And I think a good way to start would be from among ReComers, although I have to admit that we only touch a very small base of fellow Malaysians.

Looking at this aspect, spoon feeding basically means one person getting the information and basically without trying their best to restructure and reorganize the information. This is a product of an education system which has a fixed syllabus. Like it or not, be it SPM, STPM, A Level, or even exams like CFA, do require a lot of regurgitation.

Hence, the best way for a teacher to ensure that every student does well in exam would be via spoon feeding. As our society moves forward, we have become more and more materialistic and many teachers/lecturers are being judged by how many As their students get. Hence, in this case, to maximize the number of As, spoon feeding is being done.

So, I would strongly recommend fellow ReComers, to try and find more information. Learn how to learn, as what youngyew points. We learn how to learn, and we unlearn and relearn as time goes by. We build up our learning, and we can adapt well. This will definitely help us a great deal especially in working world.

[iQing]

you know when someone keep insisting that they want to be spoon fed..

just give them what they want.
feed them

by stuffing a big pao into their mouths.
simple as that