The Passion of the Christ

[soul_out]

Have you guys every hear of this new movie which i think most probably will be banned in Malaysia? I'm looking forward to watch it in Cinema.

[soul_out]

Have you guys every hear of this new movie which i think most probably will be banned in Malaysia? I'm looking forward to watch it in Cinema.

[wwhong]

yeah i just watched it last night. a well made movie but I don't know what exactly going on and not quite know about the story line. For non-Christian like myself, this movie seems like a human torture documentary because basically you go inside the cinema to see how the Roman soldiers torture Jesus.

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?

I know I should just go refer to the bible for the explanation but that's the questions I had while watching the movie. if anyone can answer those, that;s the best.

I think Christians should definitely watch the movie. I saw many people cried after the movie.

[wwhong]

yeah i just watched it last night. a well made movie but I don't know what exactly going on and not quite know about the story line. For non-Christian like myself, this movie seems like a human torture documentary because basically you go inside the cinema to see how the Roman soldiers torture Jesus.

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?

I know I should just go refer to the bible for the explanation but that's the questions I had while watching the movie. if anyone can answer those, that;s the best.

I think Christians should definitely watch the movie. I saw many people cried after the movie.

[soul_out]

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?


1. Jews do not believe that Jesus is the son of God because they think that Jesus is only an ordinary man. Jews still waiting/expecting for the anointed one coming to be their king (Messiah).

2. I'm not 100% sure about the answer.

[soul_out]

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?


1. Jews do not believe that Jesus is the son of God because they think that Jesus is only an ordinary man. Jews still waiting/expecting for the anointed one coming to be their king (Messiah).

2. I'm not 100% sure about the answer.

[littlebigone]

I think i've read somewhere that the person who ordered that Jesus be labeled the "King of the Jews" was Pilate and that the jews wanted him to be called "The one who called himself the King of the Jews"

I think that Jesus died to save the people because that was the will of God. I don't know why it is the will of God. But i know that Jesus trusted in God and His wisdom and as such did not want to flee. He even prayed before he was caught by the Roman soldiers that the burden be lifted if possible. But he said to God, "Let your will not mine be done"

That's as much as I know. Hope it helps.

[littlebigone]

I think i've read somewhere that the person who ordered that Jesus be labeled the "King of the Jews" was Pilate and that the jews wanted him to be called "The one who called himself the King of the Jews"

I think that Jesus died to save the people because that was the will of God. I don't know why it is the will of God. But i know that Jesus trusted in God and His wisdom and as such did not want to flee. He even prayed before he was caught by the Roman soldiers that the burden be lifted if possible. But he said to God, "Let your will not mine be done"

That's as much as I know. Hope it helps.

[Vigilante]

It seems that Jesus rested his fate to God. But yet, according to the bible, there are quotes that seems to suggest otherwise.

According to King James Version,

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani! My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? - Matthew 27: 46

Again in Psalms 22:1

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? - KJV

More quotes:
Luke 23: 46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

[Vigilante]

It seems that Jesus rested his fate to God. But yet, according to the bible, there are quotes that seems to suggest otherwise.

According to King James Version,

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani! My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? - Matthew 27: 46

Again in Psalms 22:1

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? - KJV

More quotes:
Luke 23: 46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

[wwhong]

not a serious stuff but i think jesus was really a superman. he never even fainted after losing so much blood got beaten all over the body and still manage to carry such a heavy cross by himself before another guy helped him out and continue to lose lotsa blood on the cross.

[wwhong]

not a serious stuff but i think jesus was really a superman. he never even fainted after losing so much blood got beaten all over the body and still manage to carry such a heavy cross by himself before another guy helped him out and continue to lose lotsa blood on the cross.

[hungwei]

A violent movie, according to a newspaper review. But it has recently dislodge the oscar from public attention, so i think that i'm not going to miss this movie.

But one question arises in my mind. Does it really follow the original scene as described in the Bible?

[hungwei]

A violent movie, according to a newspaper review. But it has recently dislodge the oscar from public attention, so i think that i'm not going to miss this movie.

But one question arises in my mind. Does it really follow the original scene as described in the Bible?

[soul_out]

But one question arises in my mind. Does it really follow the original scene as described in the Bible?

I haven't watch the show but i've read a few review regarding this movie. They said it is almost 100% original except some part of the movie. Maybe Christian who has already watched the movie can answer your question. It's is not show in UK yet...:(

[soul_out]

But one question arises in my mind. Does it really follow the original scene as described in the Bible?

I haven't watch the show but i've read a few review regarding this movie. They said it is almost 100% original except some part of the movie. Maybe Christian who has already watched the movie can answer your question. It's is not show in UK yet...:(

[taufiq]

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

[taufiq]

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

[soul_out]

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

If you don't mind, would you like to share with us what Quran said?

[soul_out]

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

If you don't mind, would you like to share with us what Quran said?

[topdog]

this movie was obviously made with christian viewers in mind. if you're not familiar with the bible i would be very very surprised if you're not lost when you see it. e.g. jesus saving mary magdalene that whole "cast the first stone" thing.

i'm no bible expert but i'll try to answer some questions.

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

the jewish leaders of that time were so adamant that jesus be crucified because he was a threat to their authority, to the status quo. jesus was a tremendously charismastic leader who was gaining more and more followers from jews and gentiles alike with his teachings and works. and to top it all off he claimed that he was the son of God. the jewish leaders probably felt threatened enough by this jew (jesus was a jew), and since they were ruled by the romans at that time, they had to get the romans to kill him.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?

Jesus could have escaped, in fact, he was tempted to. As someone pointed out, he said "if possible, take this cup away from me, but let your will be done, not mine" when he was praying in the garden. and yeap, there was no better way than to sacrifice himself, according to the bible.

It seems that Jesus rested his fate to God. But yet, according to the bible, there are quotes that seems to suggest otherwise.

Vigilante, i read your quotes and i fail to see how they suggest that Jesus did not rest his fate in God. jesus was fully human too, i would expect him to be afraid/delirious after losing so much blood. but he let God's will be done, not his, each and every time, according to the bible.

But one question arises in my mind. Does it really follow the original scene as described in the Bible?

we have to remember that it's a movie. but by and large, it did quite literally follow what was written in the gospels.

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

wouldn't we all be christians if the quran was exactly the same as the bible?:)[/quote]

[topdog]

this movie was obviously made with christian viewers in mind. if you're not familiar with the bible i would be very very surprised if you're not lost when you see it. e.g. jesus saving mary magdalene that whole "cast the first stone" thing.

i'm no bible expert but i'll try to answer some questions.

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

the jewish leaders of that time were so adamant that jesus be crucified because he was a threat to their authority, to the status quo. jesus was a tremendously charismastic leader who was gaining more and more followers from jews and gentiles alike with his teachings and works. and to top it all off he claimed that he was the son of God. the jewish leaders probably felt threatened enough by this jew (jesus was a jew), and since they were ruled by the romans at that time, they had to get the romans to kill him.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?

Jesus could have escaped, in fact, he was tempted to. As someone pointed out, he said "if possible, take this cup away from me, but let your will be done, not mine" when he was praying in the garden. and yeap, there was no better way than to sacrifice himself, according to the bible.

It seems that Jesus rested his fate to God. But yet, according to the bible, there are quotes that seems to suggest otherwise.

Vigilante, i read your quotes and i fail to see how they suggest that Jesus did not rest his fate in God. jesus was fully human too, i would expect him to be afraid/delirious after losing so much blood. but he let God's will be done, not his, each and every time, according to the bible.

But one question arises in my mind. Does it really follow the original scene as described in the Bible?

we have to remember that it's a movie. but by and large, it did quite literally follow what was written in the gospels.

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

wouldn't we all be christians if the quran was exactly the same as the bible?:)[/quote]

[topdog]

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

If you don't mind, would you like to share with us what Quran said?

i'm interested to know too. i do know that jesus was nabi isa in the quran but that's as far as my knowledge goes. does the quran mention that jesus was crucified?

[topdog]

it's not what exactly said in the Quran/Koran..
that i know for sure

If you don't mind, would you like to share with us what Quran said?

i'm interested to know too. i do know that jesus was nabi isa in the quran but that's as far as my knowledge goes. does the quran mention that jesus was crucified?

[littlebigone]

nabi isa was "dibawa ke langit" or something like that right?
At least that's what my Muslim friend told me.

[littlebigone]

nabi isa was "dibawa ke langit" or something like that right?
At least that's what my Muslim friend told me.

[__earth]

basically, the tradition of Christian's Jesus and Islam's Isa is the same thing albiet there are a few differences. The similarity shouldn't be a surprise since Judaism, Christianity and Islam rooted from more or less the same source.

In Islam, God is not Jesus' father nor Mary was God's wife. Mary/Mariam got pregnant due to God's will, basically, it's a principle of kun faya kun - which basically my will be done. It was God's wish that it was done. This to my understanding violates the idea of trinity.

Jesus is considered as human, like Muhammad and all the others previous prophets. though all prophets had a few miracles, they are/were not God.

I'm not really sure if that events after Jesus' birth till the event before the cruxification in Islam is similar to Christianity. I believe it was not well mentioned in the Koran but it should be the same as what is decribed in Christian's tradition.

During the cruxification, Muslims believe, that God replaced Jesus with some other guy - I can't remember what was the guy name but he was the antagonist. more importantly, Jesus didn't die but rather, he was brought up to the heaven by God and he will come back near the end time as a savior once again.

So, I believe there are only two main significant differences - the way Jesus was born and whether Jesus was killed or not.

and Vigilante, i don't see how your quotes proved that Jesus was not as steadfast as he was portrayed.

[__earth]

basically, the tradition of Christian's Jesus and Islam's Isa is the same thing albiet there are a few differences. The similarity shouldn't be a surprise since Judaism, Christianity and Islam rooted from more or less the same source.

In Islam, God is not Jesus' father nor Mary was God's wife. Mary/Mariam got pregnant due to God's will, basically, it's a principle of kun faya kun - which basically my will be done. It was God's wish that it was done. This to my understanding violates the idea of trinity.

Jesus is considered as human, like Muhammad and all the others previous prophets. though all prophets had a few miracles, they are/were not God.

I'm not really sure if that events after Jesus' birth till the event before the cruxification in Islam is similar to Christianity. I believe it was not well mentioned in the Koran but it should be the same as what is decribed in Christian's tradition.

During the cruxification, Muslims believe, that God replaced Jesus with some other guy - I can't remember what was the guy name but he was the antagonist. more importantly, Jesus didn't die but rather, he was brought up to the heaven by God and he will come back near the end time as a savior once again.

So, I believe there are only two main significant differences - the way Jesus was born and whether Jesus was killed or not.

and Vigilante, i don't see how your quotes proved that Jesus was not as steadfast as he was portrayed.

[littlebigone]

Er...don't think Mary is the wife of God. She is just the mother of Jesus. And since Jesus is also God in the sense of the trinity, she is also referred to as the mother of God.

She got pregnant probably the same way that you said - kun faya kun, the holy spirit bestowed upon Mary the child Jesus.

[littlebigone]

Er...don't think Mary is the wife of God. She is just the mother of Jesus. And since Jesus is also God in the sense of the trinity, she is also referred to as the mother of God.

She got pregnant probably the same way that you said - kun faya kun, the holy spirit bestowed upon Mary the child Jesus.

[topdog]

yeah, this needs to be clarified: mary is NOT thought of as the wife of God, by christians and in the bible itself. :)

[topdog]

yeah, this needs to be clarified: mary is NOT thought of as the wife of God, by christians and in the bible itself. :)

[__earth]

okay. apologize. I'll definately keep that in mind :)

[__earth]

okay. apologize. I'll definately keep that in mind :)

[dinna_g]

It is interesting that we're debating whether the movie really describes what is said in bible or Quran. Here, in the US, the contreversy is more about how the movie will cause Anti-Semitism. I just don't understand why they're making a big deal out of it, since we can also say that Schindler's List may cause Anti-German.

Anyways, my friend thinks that the movie is awful and just full of voilence (sp?), but I'm going to see it, just for the heck of it.

Cheers!

[dinna_g]

It is interesting that we're debating whether the movie really describes what is said in bible or Quran. Here, in the US, the contreversy is more about how the movie will cause Anti-Semitism. I just don't understand why they're making a big deal out of it, since we can also say that Schindler's List may cause Anti-German.

Anyways, my friend thinks that the movie is awful and just full of voilence (sp?), but I'm going to see it, just for the heck of it.

Cheers!

[Yeogolas]

Best topic for Any christ ...... not for antichrist you know jesus is a god ....

[Yeogolas]

Best topic for Any christ ...... not for antichrist you know jesus is a god ....

[Thirdshifter]

Whatever the gospel said or The Quran did. Mel gibson is laughing all the way to the bank.

I think Mel Gibson did a great job of resurection jesus and actually making a handsome profit out of it.

It's just a movie, and it is potrayed as sensational and contraversial as posible. There's no Reason to debate what is presented in a movie. Just accept it as a form of entertainment. The movie obviously has no relevant issue to be learnt by us in this time of age.

All it is promoting is Christianity and more divisiaon of people by faith.

An inter religion discussion do not help us Understand each other better it just promote who is more correct.

[Thirdshifter]

Whatever the gospel said or The Quran did. Mel gibson is laughing all the way to the bank.

I think Mel Gibson did a great job of resurection jesus and actually making a handsome profit out of it.

It's just a movie, and it is potrayed as sensational and contraversial as posible. There's no Reason to debate what is presented in a movie. Just accept it as a form of entertainment. The movie obviously has no relevant issue to be learnt by us in this time of age.

All it is promoting is Christianity and more divisiaon of people by faith.

An inter religion discussion do not help us Understand each other better it just promote who is more correct.

[tree007]

oh crap.. u lucky guys at the States... i soooo wanna watch Passion of the Christ in cinema.. with the THX sound system n stuffs... arrrggghhH!!!!!.. damn... the traielr was sooo chun... the only other movie featuring Jesus that i've every watched was Ben HUr... haha...

hehe.. did u noe that...... the actor who played Jesus in the movie was struck by lightning during the scene when he was crucified... hehe.. lucky him.. he survivied... perhaps.. that was a sign.. :P

[tree007]

oh crap.. u lucky guys at the States... i soooo wanna watch Passion of the Christ in cinema.. with the THX sound system n stuffs... arrrggghhH!!!!!.. damn... the traielr was sooo chun... the only other movie featuring Jesus that i've every watched was Ben HUr... haha...

hehe.. did u noe that...... the actor who played Jesus in the movie was struck by lightning during the scene when he was crucified... hehe.. lucky him.. he survivied... perhaps.. that was a sign.. :P

[topdog]

third, i personally do not think that the movie was made as sensational and controversial as possible. if you're thinking about charges of anti-semitism, here's (http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=e8bbf5d3713b0e4e959da2d71ad05620) an article that contains everything i want to say, only more eloquently.:)

about the movie not having any relevant issue to be learned by us today, i agree -- if you are a non-christian. even for christians they have memorized this story by heart, so the movie really doesn't preach anything new. what it did do to me though was put pictures and sounds to a story i know inside and out. i think most christians who saw the movie were jolted out of their religious complacency. when we read in the bible that jesus died for us, he actually died for us, and the movie did a good job pounding that point home. please note that i'm just trying to explain what the movie might mean to a christian.

lastly, about debating what was said in the bible vs the quran. i don't think any of us were "debating" in the sense of trying to prove which version is more "correct." weren't we just comparing notes? and i'm sure all of us realize that this movie was made by a christian based on the gospels, so what's there to argue about (which i really didn't think we did)? not all christians are familiar with the bible, and not all muslims are familiar with the quran. further, some non-christian viewers were confused after seeing the movie, so it's only right that people who are familiar with the bible try to explain what went on.

[topdog]

third, i personally do not think that the movie was made as sensational and controversial as possible. if you're thinking about charges of anti-semitism, here's (http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=e8bbf5d3713b0e4e959da2d71ad05620) an article that contains everything i want to say, only more eloquently.:)

about the movie not having any relevant issue to be learned by us today, i agree -- if you are a non-christian. even for christians they have memorized this story by heart, so the movie really doesn't preach anything new. what it did do to me though was put pictures and sounds to a story i know inside and out. i think most christians who saw the movie were jolted out of their religious complacency. when we read in the bible that jesus died for us, he actually died for us, and the movie did a good job pounding that point home. please note that i'm just trying to explain what the movie might mean to a christian.

lastly, about debating what was said in the bible vs the quran. i don't think any of us were "debating" in the sense of trying to prove which version is more "correct." weren't we just comparing notes? and i'm sure all of us realize that this movie was made by a christian based on the gospels, so what's there to argue about (which i really didn't think we did)? not all christians are familiar with the bible, and not all muslims are familiar with the quran. further, some non-christian viewers were confused after seeing the movie, so it's only right that people who are familiar with the bible try to explain what went on.

[Vigilante]

It's just a movie, and it is potrayed as sensational and contraversial as posible. There's no Reason to debate what is presented in a movie. Just accept it as a form of entertainment.
Agreed. After all, it's Mel Gibson who portrayed the British as blood-thirsty and immoral people twice, in Braveheart and The Patriot. AND IT'S HOLLYWOOD! Give it a break.

This show is not anti-semitism. Okay, Jews cruxified Jesus. But what's wrong with that? After all, the Jews were merely completing God's masterplan. Without the Jews, how would Jesus able to 'wash our sins with his blood'?

I am surprised at the number of accusations made against the movie. Has any Christians attack any Jew after watching the movie? Were there any Christians caught in Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies?

IMHO, the Jews over-reacted again, as in the case of Dr. Mahathir's speech.

[Vigilante]

It's just a movie, and it is potrayed as sensational and contraversial as posible. There's no Reason to debate what is presented in a movie. Just accept it as a form of entertainment.
Agreed. After all, it's Mel Gibson who portrayed the British as blood-thirsty and immoral people twice, in Braveheart and The Patriot. AND IT'S HOLLYWOOD! Give it a break.

This show is not anti-semitism. Okay, Jews cruxified Jesus. But what's wrong with that? After all, the Jews were merely completing God's masterplan. Without the Jews, how would Jesus able to 'wash our sins with his blood'?

I am surprised at the number of accusations made against the movie. Has any Christians attack any Jew after watching the movie? Were there any Christians caught in Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies?

IMHO, the Jews over-reacted again, as in the case of Dr. Mahathir's speech.

[Vigilante]

I heard there is no glaring inaccuracy between the movie 'Passion of Christ" and the bible, unlike the classic 'Ten Commandments' by Charlton Heston. Allow me to digress to Ten Commandments.

Background story: Moses went up the mountain to receive instructions from God. He went there for a long time and the Israelites got impatient and asked Moses' brother, Aaron, to make them a new God that they can worship.

BIBLE: Aaron made the golden calf and Israelites worshipped it. They also made animal sacrifices to their new God. When Moses came down from the mountain, he was angry and destroyed the calf. Then he melted down the gold, grounded it into powder, and forced the people to drink it with water!

MOVIE: Instead of offering animal sacrfices, young virgin girls were sacrficed. Purpose was probably to justify God's wrath towards the Israelites.

BIBLE: "Moses called out and said, "All of you who are still on the side of the Lord God Yahweh, come here at once and join me!" Of all the twelve tribes, only the Levites joined Moses and Aaron. Moses said to them, "Get your swords. Go from one end of the camp to the other and kill anyone who is still sinning against Yahweh. I don't care if they are your own brothers, friends or neighbors!"
And the Levites did as Moses commanded. That night, 3000 Israelites were killed." - http://www.just4kidsmagazine.com/10plagues/goldencalf.html

MOVIE: Earthquake did the dirty work. No mass genocide, no family members killing each other. No blood on people's hands.

There is a lot of difference between animal sacrifices and human sacrifices. Humans slaughtering each other is nothing at all similar to an earthquake 'swallowing' people up.

The moral of the story is...
..when making Hollywood movies, 'noble-lize' the good guys and 'evil-lize' the bad guys, even at the cost of blasphemizing the holy word of God.

[Vigilante]

I heard there is no glaring inaccuracy between the movie 'Passion of Christ" and the bible, unlike the classic 'Ten Commandments' by Charlton Heston. Allow me to digress to Ten Commandments.

Background story: Moses went up the mountain to receive instructions from God. He went there for a long time and the Israelites got impatient and asked Moses' brother, Aaron, to make them a new God that they can worship.

BIBLE: Aaron made the golden calf and Israelites worshipped it. They also made animal sacrifices to their new God. When Moses came down from the mountain, he was angry and destroyed the calf. Then he melted down the gold, grounded it into powder, and forced the people to drink it with water!

MOVIE: Instead of offering animal sacrfices, young virgin girls were sacrficed. Purpose was probably to justify God's wrath towards the Israelites.

BIBLE: "Moses called out and said, "All of you who are still on the side of the Lord God Yahweh, come here at once and join me!" Of all the twelve tribes, only the Levites joined Moses and Aaron. Moses said to them, "Get your swords. Go from one end of the camp to the other and kill anyone who is still sinning against Yahweh. I don't care if they are your own brothers, friends or neighbors!"
And the Levites did as Moses commanded. That night, 3000 Israelites were killed." - http://www.just4kidsmagazine.com/10plagues/goldencalf.html

MOVIE: Earthquake did the dirty work. No mass genocide, no family members killing each other. No blood on people's hands.

There is a lot of difference between animal sacrifices and human sacrifices. Humans slaughtering each other is nothing at all similar to an earthquake 'swallowing' people up.

The moral of the story is...
..when making Hollywood movies, 'noble-lize' the good guys and 'evil-lize' the bad guys, even at the cost of blasphemizing the holy word of God.

[dinna_g]

I am surprised at the number of accusations made against the movie. Has any Christians attack any Jew after watching the movie? Were there any Christians caught in Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies?

IMHO, the Jews over-reacted again, as in the case of Dr. Mahathir's speech.

I totally agree with you. If movies are meant to describe the negative side of one specific race, I don't think anyone should make any historical movies. Come to think of it, we can say that Embun is trying to do the same thing towards the Japanese. LOL. Apparently, we're cooler than the Hollywood, so we're not making a big deal out of a movie!

I heard there is no glaring inaccuracy between the movie 'Passion of Christ" and the bible, unlike the classic 'Ten Commandments' by Charlton Heston. Allow me to digress to Ten Commandments.

It's good to hear that the movie pretty much follows what is described in the bible. Afterall, it is not meant to be a fictional movie. I guess Mel Gibson did a great job then by not using too much of his "imagination" to make the movie "better". Of course, the movie can't be too perfect either, there's always exaggeration here and there at some point. Nothing is perfect in this world.

Cheers!

[dinna_g]

I am surprised at the number of accusations made against the movie. Has any Christians attack any Jew after watching the movie? Were there any Christians caught in Israel with bombs strapped to their bodies?

IMHO, the Jews over-reacted again, as in the case of Dr. Mahathir's speech.

I totally agree with you. If movies are meant to describe the negative side of one specific race, I don't think anyone should make any historical movies. Come to think of it, we can say that Embun is trying to do the same thing towards the Japanese. LOL. Apparently, we're cooler than the Hollywood, so we're not making a big deal out of a movie!

I heard there is no glaring inaccuracy between the movie 'Passion of Christ" and the bible, unlike the classic 'Ten Commandments' by Charlton Heston. Allow me to digress to Ten Commandments.

It's good to hear that the movie pretty much follows what is described in the bible. Afterall, it is not meant to be a fictional movie. I guess Mel Gibson did a great job then by not using too much of his "imagination" to make the movie "better". Of course, the movie can't be too perfect either, there's always exaggeration here and there at some point. Nothing is perfect in this world.

Cheers!

[littlebigone]

This show is not anti-semitism. Okay, Jews cruxified Jesus. But what's wrong with that? After all, the Jews were merely completing God's masterplan. Without the Jews, how would Jesus able to 'wash our sins with his blood'?


I think that (and I may be wrong here) Jews don't like the notion that they killed Jesus. I think they would say that the Romans killed Jesus. So when people come out of the movie feeling that Jews killed Jesus, they would feel wrongly accused.

[littlebigone]

This show is not anti-semitism. Okay, Jews cruxified Jesus. But what's wrong with that? After all, the Jews were merely completing God's masterplan. Without the Jews, how would Jesus able to 'wash our sins with his blood'?


I think that (and I may be wrong here) Jews don't like the notion that they killed Jesus. I think they would say that the Romans killed Jesus. So when people come out of the movie feeling that Jews killed Jesus, they would feel wrongly accused.

[topdog]

I think that (and I may be wrong here) Jews don't like the notion that they killed Jesus. I think they would say that the Romans killed Jesus. So when people come out of the movie feeling that Jews killed Jesus, they would feel wrongly accused.

that's an interesting thought. i've never actually spoken to a jew about this so i can't say. but my catholic friends (who also happen to be jews) don't have a problem with that (well, duh).

[topdog]

I think that (and I may be wrong here) Jews don't like the notion that they killed Jesus. I think they would say that the Romans killed Jesus. So when people come out of the movie feeling that Jews killed Jesus, they would feel wrongly accused.

that's an interesting thought. i've never actually spoken to a jew about this so i can't say. but my catholic friends (who also happen to be jews) don't have a problem with that (well, duh).

[wwhong]

just curious. since some of you said judaism,christian and islam came from the same source, then all 3 of that religion are worshipping the same god but just different name?

[wwhong]

just curious. since some of you said judaism,christian and islam came from the same source, then all 3 of that religion are worshipping the same god but just different name?

[Diesel]

... since we can also say that Schindler's List may cause Anti-German.


well, unless u one thinks that the whole german is Nazi.
but i dont understand what that movie (schindler's list) is ban in Malaysia. it's such an excellent movie.

[Diesel]

... since we can also say that Schindler's List may cause Anti-German.


well, unless u one thinks that the whole german is Nazi.
but i dont understand what that movie (schindler's list) is ban in Malaysia. it's such an excellent movie.

[cryzpene]

I think the critics come mostly from the non-believers who probably couldn't reason why on earth this man quietly let himself be tortured and yet claimed to be the Son of God. To Christians, this movie is a striking reminder of their faith and I think that's Mel Gibson's ultimate intention in producing this movie.

The part where Pilate washed his hands is a very very crucial part in the faith. Somehow it signifies that it was Jewish mob to be blamed for his death. Don't be misled by this. The film is not anti-semitic at all since there are Jewish people who pitied him.

To Christians, it is still a mystery why Jesus willingly died. The general notion is that He died for mankind. His greatest temptation was to overcome all the sufferings with His divine qualities but that would screw up the plan that the Father had for him. That's why the devil was very much telling him that it is too costly for him to die.

I like the movie especially when I think it is so far the most accurate account of the 2000-year-old event. The crowd at the theatre here in Pittsburgh was enthusiastic. Very much agreeing to the fact that Pittsburgh has a lot of Catholics.

yeah i just watched it last night. a well made movie but I don't know what exactly going on and not quite know about the story line. For non-Christian like myself, this movie seems like a human torture documentary because basically you go inside the cinema to see how the Roman soldiers torture Jesus.

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?

I know I should just go refer to the bible for the explanation but that's the questions I had while watching the movie. if anyone can answer those, that;s the best.

I think Christians should definitely watch the movie. I saw many people cried after the movie.

[cryzpene]

I think the critics come mostly from the non-believers who probably couldn't reason why on earth this man quietly let himself be tortured and yet claimed to be the Son of God. To Christians, this movie is a striking reminder of their faith and I think that's Mel Gibson's ultimate intention in producing this movie.

The part where Pilate washed his hands is a very very crucial part in the faith. Somehow it signifies that it was Jewish mob to be blamed for his death. Don't be misled by this. The film is not anti-semitic at all since there are Jewish people who pitied him.

To Christians, it is still a mystery why Jesus willingly died. The general notion is that He died for mankind. His greatest temptation was to overcome all the sufferings with His divine qualities but that would screw up the plan that the Father had for him. That's why the devil was very much telling him that it is too costly for him to die.

I like the movie especially when I think it is so far the most accurate account of the 2000-year-old event. The crowd at the theatre here in Pittsburgh was enthusiastic. Very much agreeing to the fact that Pittsburgh has a lot of Catholics.

yeah i just watched it last night. a well made movie but I don't know what exactly going on and not quite know about the story line. For non-Christian like myself, this movie seems like a human torture documentary because basically you go inside the cinema to see how the Roman soldiers torture Jesus.

few thing I don't quite understand. If Jesus is the King of Jews like what is being said in the movie, then why the Jews wanna crucified him? He was already beaten half dead and still the Jews chose to crucify him when given a choice by the Roman Consul.

Why didn't Jesus find a way to escape when he already knew the roman soldiers were going to capture him? Was there no other better ways other than sacrifice himself to wash the people sin?

I know I should just go refer to the bible for the explanation but that's the questions I had while watching the movie. if anyone can answer those, that;s the best.

I think Christians should definitely watch the movie. I saw many people cried after the movie.

[cryzpene]

Can you explain how it violates the idea of the Trinity?

The idea of the trinity implies the way on how Jesus, as Christians believed to be God himself, comes down to earth and mingle with us human beings. The concept of the Trinity describes God, a single entity, as the Supreme Being made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son here is Jesus who is in fact the manifestation of God in flesh while the Spirit is the relationship between the Son and the Father.

This is how Christianity sees the Supreme Being. Islam and Judaism see it in different ways. Anyway, the three are still Abrhamaic faiths.

basically, the tradition of Christian's Jesus and Islam's Isa is the same thing albiet there are a few differences. The similarity shouldn't be a surprise since Judaism, Christianity and Islam rooted from more or less the same source.

In Islam, God is not Jesus' father nor Mary was God's wife. Mary/Mariam got pregnant due to God's will, basically, it's a principle of kun faya kun - which basically my will be done. It was God's wish that it was done. This to my understanding violates the idea of trinity.

Jesus is considered as human, like Muhammad and all the others previous prophets. though all prophets had a few miracles, they are/were not God.

I'm not really sure if that events after Jesus' birth till the event before the cruxification in Islam is similar to Christianity. I believe it was not well mentioned in the Koran but it should be the same as what is decribed in Christian's tradition.

During the cruxification, Muslims believe, that God replaced Jesus with some other guy - I can't remember what was the guy name but he was the antagonist. more importantly, Jesus didn't die but rather, he was brought up to the heaven by God and he will come back near the end time as a savior once again.

So, I believe there are only two main significant differences - the way Jesus was born and whether Jesus was killed or not.

and Vigilante, i don't see how your quotes proved that Jesus was not as steadfast as he was portrayed.

[cryzpene]

Can you explain how it violates the idea of the Trinity?

The idea of the trinity implies the way on how Jesus, as Christians believed to be God himself, comes down to earth and mingle with us human beings. The concept of the Trinity describes God, a single entity, as the Supreme Being made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son here is Jesus who is in fact the manifestation of God in flesh while the Spirit is the relationship between the Son and the Father.

This is how Christianity sees the Supreme Being. Islam and Judaism see it in different ways. Anyway, the three are still Abrhamaic faiths.

basically, the tradition of Christian's Jesus and Islam's Isa is the same thing albiet there are a few differences. The similarity shouldn't be a surprise since Judaism, Christianity and Islam rooted from more or less the same source.

In Islam, God is not Jesus' father nor Mary was God's wife. Mary/Mariam got pregnant due to God's will, basically, it's a principle of kun faya kun - which basically my will be done. It was God's wish that it was done. This to my understanding violates the idea of trinity.

Jesus is considered as human, like Muhammad and all the others previous prophets. though all prophets had a few miracles, they are/were not God.

I'm not really sure if that events after Jesus' birth till the event before the cruxification in Islam is similar to Christianity. I believe it was not well mentioned in the Koran but it should be the same as what is decribed in Christian's tradition.

During the cruxification, Muslims believe, that God replaced Jesus with some other guy - I can't remember what was the guy name but he was the antagonist. more importantly, Jesus didn't die but rather, he was brought up to the heaven by God and he will come back near the end time as a savior once again.

So, I believe there are only two main significant differences - the way Jesus was born and whether Jesus was killed or not.

and Vigilante, i don't see how your quotes proved that Jesus was not as steadfast as he was portrayed.

[Vigilante]

I like Schindler's List. It was a excellent movie. The reason it was banned in Malaysia, if I am not mistaken, was that Malaysia censorship board wanted to censor certain parts of the movie like the prisoners running around naked in front of medical doctors. Steven Spielberg was adamant that no part of the movie shall be censored or he would not let the movie be screened.

Anyway, it was a great movie because it explains the holocaust - what happened, how it happened and how the situation really was. Passion of Christ on the other hand, from what I heard, is nothing more than just an hour plus of gruesome torture scenes. There is nothing much to learn from the movie besides knowing that Jesus went through a lot of pain before he was crucified.

If the movie is nothing more than entertainment and to reinforce Christians' faith in Jesus, then I rest my case.

[Vigilante]

I like Schindler's List. It was a excellent movie. The reason it was banned in Malaysia, if I am not mistaken, was that Malaysia censorship board wanted to censor certain parts of the movie like the prisoners running around naked in front of medical doctors. Steven Spielberg was adamant that no part of the movie shall be censored or he would not let the movie be screened.

Anyway, it was a great movie because it explains the holocaust - what happened, how it happened and how the situation really was. Passion of Christ on the other hand, from what I heard, is nothing more than just an hour plus of gruesome torture scenes. There is nothing much to learn from the movie besides knowing that Jesus went through a lot of pain before he was crucified.

If the movie is nothing more than entertainment and to reinforce Christians' faith in Jesus, then I rest my case.

[__earth]

Can you explain how it violates the idea of the Trinity?


Islam doesn't see Jesus/Isa as God. He was a human being acted as God's messenger. There is only one God. Nor was God is Jesus' father.

Anyway, it was a great movie because it explains the holocaust - what happened, how it happened and how the situation really was.

Currently, there's a revisionist version of the holocaust. Holocaust was not as bad as it was said. I somehow find the revisionists' argument attractive.

[__earth]

Can you explain how it violates the idea of the Trinity?


Islam doesn't see Jesus/Isa as God. He was a human being acted as God's messenger. There is only one God. Nor was God is Jesus' father.

Anyway, it was a great movie because it explains the holocaust - what happened, how it happened and how the situation really was.

Currently, there's a revisionist version of the holocaust. Holocaust was not as bad as it was said. I somehow find the revisionists' argument attractive.

[Vigilante]

Things to ponder.
Quotes from 'confused' audience

A - Ok, this is where I get confused, chris's dad has this plan, judas will betray chris to these people in funny robes, and they'll beat the living bejesus out of him, kill him, and then chris's dad will forgive everybody.

B - not quite, its like if you pissed me off, and did all kinds of bad things to me, so for me to forgive you, I send my only son to your place so that you can beat him, torture him, and kill him. Then, I'd forgive you for everything, see?

Quotes from Thomas Paine
-..and to tell him (a child) that it was done to make mankind happier and better, is making the story still worse; as if mankind could be improved by the example of murder; and to tell him that all this is a mystery, is only making an excuse for the incredibility of it.

-If I owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me. But if I have committed a crime, every circumstance of the case is changed. Moral justice cannot take the innocent for the guilty even if the innocent would offer itself. To suppose justice to do this, is to destroy the principle of its existence, which is the thing itself. It is then no longer justice. It is indiscriminate revenge.


I asked a Christian friend of mine who took some Jewish studies, but I was not really satisfied with the answer. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me with the logic of Christ dying for our sins.

[Vigilante]

Things to ponder.
Quotes from 'confused' audience

A - Ok, this is where I get confused, chris's dad has this plan, judas will betray chris to these people in funny robes, and they'll beat the living bejesus out of him, kill him, and then chris's dad will forgive everybody.

B - not quite, its like if you pissed me off, and did all kinds of bad things to me, so for me to forgive you, I send my only son to your place so that you can beat him, torture him, and kill him. Then, I'd forgive you for everything, see?

Quotes from Thomas Paine
-..and to tell him (a child) that it was done to make mankind happier and better, is making the story still worse; as if mankind could be improved by the example of murder; and to tell him that all this is a mystery, is only making an excuse for the incredibility of it.

-If I owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me. But if I have committed a crime, every circumstance of the case is changed. Moral justice cannot take the innocent for the guilty even if the innocent would offer itself. To suppose justice to do this, is to destroy the principle of its existence, which is the thing itself. It is then no longer justice. It is indiscriminate revenge.


I asked a Christian friend of mine who took some Jewish studies, but I was not really satisfied with the answer. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me with the logic of Christ dying for our sins.

[topdog]

If the movie is nothing more than entertainment and to reinforce Christians' faith in Jesus, then I rest my case.

non-believers who enter the theater with the intention of getting entertained might want their money back.:)

about reinforcing Christians' faith in Jesus, bingo! I believe that was the intent of the film.

to put "the passion" into perspective, one should remember that it was mel gibson's (a traditional catholic) personal interpretation of jesus' crucifixion (one that, most theologians would agree, is consistent with what is written in the bible).

a friend pointed out that the film is nothing more than the 14 stations of the cross and the 5 sorrowful mysteries of the rosary on celluloid. it seemed obvious once she said that but it didn't occur to me when i was seeing the movie. since the stations of the cross and the rosary are of great importance in catholicism, it's not surprising that gibson seemed to have consciously based the flow of the movie on them.

again, what does this all mean to non-christians? probably nothing, besides piquing curiousity and encouraging religious discourse. this movie will not convert people to christianity, but it will affect those who are already christians.

[topdog]

If the movie is nothing more than entertainment and to reinforce Christians' faith in Jesus, then I rest my case.

non-believers who enter the theater with the intention of getting entertained might want their money back.:)

about reinforcing Christians' faith in Jesus, bingo! I believe that was the intent of the film.

to put "the passion" into perspective, one should remember that it was mel gibson's (a traditional catholic) personal interpretation of jesus' crucifixion (one that, most theologians would agree, is consistent with what is written in the bible).

a friend pointed out that the film is nothing more than the 14 stations of the cross and the 5 sorrowful mysteries of the rosary on celluloid. it seemed obvious once she said that but it didn't occur to me when i was seeing the movie. since the stations of the cross and the rosary are of great importance in catholicism, it's not surprising that gibson seemed to have consciously based the flow of the movie on them.

again, what does this all mean to non-christians? probably nothing, besides piquing curiousity and encouraging religious discourse. this movie will not convert people to christianity, but it will affect those who are already christians.

[topdog]

Can you explain how it violates the idea of the Trinity?


Islam doesn't see Jesus/Isa as God. He was a human being acted as God's messenger. There is only one God. Nor was God is Jesus' father.



earth perhaps you shouldn't have said it "violates" the idea of trinity. if you're talking about islam, the doctrine of the trinity does not exist in islam in the first place. in catholicism (and christianity), the trinity is the central tenet of catholic faith. let's limit our discussion to what we know is written in the bible, and for comparison/knowledge's sake, versions from the quran (too bad nobody to quote the torah here). whether or not one believes in what is written is besides the point. we are not here to debate the truth/untruth of the different holy books. after all, religion is by its very nature a matter of personal faith.

[topdog]

Can you explain how it violates the idea of the Trinity?


Islam doesn't see Jesus/Isa as God. He was a human being acted as God's messenger. There is only one God. Nor was God is Jesus' father.



earth perhaps you shouldn't have said it "violates" the idea of trinity. if you're talking about islam, the doctrine of the trinity does not exist in islam in the first place. in catholicism (and christianity), the trinity is the central tenet of catholic faith. let's limit our discussion to what we know is written in the bible, and for comparison/knowledge's sake, versions from the quran (too bad nobody to quote the torah here). whether or not one believes in what is written is besides the point. we are not here to debate the truth/untruth of the different holy books. after all, religion is by its very nature a matter of personal faith.

[dave]

Hi, just started using recom. I thought discussing about the passion would be really interesting because Malaysia is a multicultural/multiracial/multireligous? country.

Anyways, I went to see the show out of curiosity. I didn't see it as a spiritual experience but as a very educational experience.

I think the sensorship board in Malaysia should be a bit more lenient. I mean, we are trying to promote understanding between different religions. I an not a believer in the Christian faith myself but I see there is no fault in watching the movie. As I said, just look at it as an educational experience. Furthermore, nobody is forcing you to watch it. So why not let it be shown in Malaysia? People will have different opinions about the movie and might not agree with the themes in the movie. So let it be. I think it'll be just perfect for interesting dicussions.

Interesting trivia- I don't know if this has been mentioned before but did you know that Mel Gibson was the person that nailed Jesus' palms to the cross in the movie? It signifies that Jesus died for the sins made by humankind and Mel Gibson, just like any other person, has been sinned in his life before.

Also another interesting fact-when you cruxify someone, the nail is driven through the wrist, not the palm. This is a fact that I learned from my housemate who is a religious studies major. She specializes in biblical accounts. Anyways, the palm will rip with the weight of the body.

[dave]

Hi, just started using recom. I thought discussing about the passion would be really interesting because Malaysia is a multicultural/multiracial/multireligous? country.

Anyways, I went to see the show out of curiosity. I didn't see it as a spiritual experience but as a very educational experience.

I think the sensorship board in Malaysia should be a bit more lenient. I mean, we are trying to promote understanding between different religions. I an not a believer in the Christian faith myself but I see there is no fault in watching the movie. As I said, just look at it as an educational experience. Furthermore, nobody is forcing you to watch it. So why not let it be shown in Malaysia? People will have different opinions about the movie and might not agree with the themes in the movie. So let it be. I think it'll be just perfect for interesting dicussions.

Interesting trivia- I don't know if this has been mentioned before but did you know that Mel Gibson was the person that nailed Jesus' palms to the cross in the movie? It signifies that Jesus died for the sins made by humankind and Mel Gibson, just like any other person, has been sinned in his life before.

Also another interesting fact-when you cruxify someone, the nail is driven through the wrist, not the palm. This is a fact that I learned from my housemate who is a religious studies major. She specializes in biblical accounts. Anyways, the palm will rip with the weight of the body.

[aquila]

Hey Vigilante,

I'm glad you asked the question because forgiveness of sins is actually one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith.

I think your analogy to the human version kid suffers and dad forgives is inadequate because we humans are not divine or just. We rise quickly to anger and are mostly unforgiving. Ask your conscience and tell me if it isn't true.


I hereby quote the book "The Passion of Jesus Christ" written by John Piper. Chapter 1

If God were not just, there would be no demand for His Son to suffer and die. And if God were not loving, there would be no willingness for his Son to suffer and die. But God is both just and loving. Therefore, His love is willing to meet the demands of his justice. (Wait! you ask.. if God is loving, why would he condemn his own Son to the cross? Pls read on for answers)

The Bible says that we have all sinned. Let's just be real. Who hasn't sinned? No matter how hard you try, how holy you try to be, you inevitably fall into the trap of sin some time in your life. Some commit more sin than others but the truth of the matter is WE HAVE ALL SINNED. (Note: This part is from me)

Since God is just , He does not sweep our crimes under the rug. He feels a holy wrath against them. They deserve to be punished and He has made this clear; FOr the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23)

There is a holy curse hanging over sin. Not to punish would be unjust.... THerefore God says "Cursed be EVERYONE who does not abide by all things written by the Book of Law and do them" (Galatians 3:10)

But the love of God does not rest with the curse that hangs over all sinful humanity. He is not content to show wrath, no matter how holy it is. (Since we've all sinned, we're all cursed to an eternity in hell) Therefore, God sends his own Son to absorb his wrath and bear the curse for all who trust him. "Christ redeemed us from the curse of law by becoming a curse for us" (Galatians 3:13)

You may ask why a loving God would send his Son to die for us. My theory is Jesus loves us just as well, so he's willing to lay down his life for us. As much as it pained God, the prophecy had to pass, otherwise, we would all be cursed. aren;t you amazed at how much God (I'm referring to all 3 in the trinity) loves us?

"God put Christ forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness because in His divine forbearance he had passed over former sins." (Romans 3:25) This is the meaning of the word propitiation. It refers to the removal of God's wrath by providing a substitute. The substitute is provided by God himself. The substitute, Jesus Christ, does not just cancel the wrath; he absorbs it and diverts it from us to hiimself. God's wrath is just and it was spent not withdrawn.

Only Jesus can bear our sins and cancel our debts when he died on the cross because he is SINLESS! A sinful man would be paying for his own transgressions but an innocent and sinless Jesus died in our place so that we may have an eternal life in heaven if we confess our sins, repent and trust in HIm.

When Jesus was on the cross, the sins of the world were upon him. Imagine such a terrible and heavy burden he beared! God, as a just god, could not bear to look at those sins. That was why Jesus asked, "My God my God, why hath thou forsaken me?"

It is important to remember that throughout the trial, God stayed with Jesus, strengthening him through his inner turmoils. I always delight in the thought that God is always with me no matter how tough the road gets.

I hope I have answered your question. please don't hesitate to ask if you have more. Seriously, I'm no bible expert but I'm glad to share with you what I know!

I think Passion is the most wonderful movie ever. At the risk of sounding like a religious fervent, I must admit that I had not cried as hard since my uncle passed away. I know in my heart of hearts that Jesus suffered and died for me but in my busy little life, I often forget that. To watch that come to life on the big screen was just a tremendous experience for me. Charges that the movie is violent are not totally baseless. However, we must also remember that Jesus DID go through all that violence and it was probably worse! Efforts to sugar coat Jesus's suffering are not acceptanle and totally discredit the extent of God's love towards us!

As for Passion for non believers, you guys are a testimony to its effect in your lives! Look, why are we having this conversation? BEcause Passion piqued your curiosity!!! For those of you who want to learn more why jesus died on the cross, I highly recommend the book "Passion of Jesus Christ" by John Piper!!! Or even better, start reading the bible!

Things to ponder.
Quotes from 'confused' audience

A - Ok, this is where I get confused, chris's dad has this plan, judas will betray chris to these people in funny robes, and they'll beat the living bejesus out of him, kill him, and then chris's dad will forgive everybody.

B - not quite, its like if you pissed me off, and did all kinds of bad things to me, so for me to forgive you, I send my only son to your place so that you can beat him, torture him, and kill him. Then, I'd forgive you for everything, see?

Quotes from Thomas Paine
-..and to tell him (a child) that it was done to make mankind happier and better, is making the story still worse; as if mankind could be improved by the example of murder; and to tell him that all this is a mystery, is only making an excuse for the incredibility of it.

-If I owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me. But if I have committed a crime, every circumstance of the case is changed. Moral justice cannot take the innocent for the guilty even if the innocent would offer itself. To suppose justice to do this, is to destroy the principle of its existence, which is the thing itself. It is then no longer justice. It is indiscriminate revenge.


I asked a Christian friend of mine who took some Jewish studies, but I was not really satisfied with the answer. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me with the logic of Christ dying for our sins.

[aquila]

Hey Vigilante,

I'm glad you asked the question because forgiveness of sins is actually one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith.

I think your analogy to the human version kid suffers and dad forgives is inadequate because we humans are not divine or just. We rise quickly to anger and are mostly unforgiving. Ask your conscience and tell me if it isn't true.


I hereby quote the book "The Passion of Jesus Christ" written by John Piper. Chapter 1

If God were not just, there would be no demand for His Son to suffer and die. And if God were not loving, there would be no willingness for his Son to suffer and die. But God is both just and loving. Therefore, His love is willing to meet the demands of his justice. (Wait! you ask.. if God is loving, why would he condemn his own Son to the cross? Pls read on for answers)

The Bible says that we have all sinned. Let's just be real. Who hasn't sinned? No matter how hard you try, how holy you try to be, you inevitably fall into the trap of sin some time in your life. Some commit more sin than others but the truth of the matter is WE HAVE ALL SINNED. (Note: This part is from me)

Since God is just , He does not sweep our crimes under the rug. He feels a holy wrath against them. They deserve to be punished and He has made this clear; FOr the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23)

There is a holy curse hanging over sin. Not to punish would be unjust.... THerefore God says "Cursed be EVERYONE who does not abide by all things written by the Book of Law and do them" (Galatians 3:10)

But the love of God does not rest with the curse that hangs over all sinful humanity. He is not content to show wrath, no matter how holy it is. (Since we've all sinned, we're all cursed to an eternity in hell) Therefore, God sends his own Son to absorb his wrath and bear the curse for all who trust him. "Christ redeemed us from the curse of law by becoming a curse for us" (Galatians 3:13)

You may ask why a loving God would send his Son to die for us. My theory is Jesus loves us just as well, so he's willing to lay down his life for us. As much as it pained God, the prophecy had to pass, otherwise, we would all be cursed. aren;t you amazed at how much God (I'm referring to all 3 in the trinity) loves us?

"God put Christ forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness because in His divine forbearance he had passed over former sins." (Romans 3:25) This is the meaning of the word propitiation. It refers to the removal of God's wrath by providing a substitute. The substitute is provided by God himself. The substitute, Jesus Christ, does not just cancel the wrath; he absorbs it and diverts it from us to hiimself. God's wrath is just and it was spent not withdrawn.

Only Jesus can bear our sins and cancel our debts when he died on the cross because he is SINLESS! A sinful man would be paying for his own transgressions but an innocent and sinless Jesus died in our place so that we may have an eternal life in heaven if we confess our sins, repent and trust in HIm.

When Jesus was on the cross, the sins of the world were upon him. Imagine such a terrible and heavy burden he beared! God, as a just god, could not bear to look at those sins. That was why Jesus asked, "My God my God, why hath thou forsaken me?"

It is important to remember that throughout the trial, God stayed with Jesus, strengthening him through his inner turmoils. I always delight in the thought that God is always with me no matter how tough the road gets.

I hope I have answered your question. please don't hesitate to ask if you have more. Seriously, I'm no bible expert but I'm glad to share with you what I know!

I think Passion is the most wonderful movie ever. At the risk of sounding like a religious fervent, I must admit that I had not cried as hard since my uncle passed away. I know in my heart of hearts that Jesus suffered and died for me but in my busy little life, I often forget that. To watch that come to life on the big screen was just a tremendous experience for me. Charges that the movie is violent are not totally baseless. However, we must also remember that Jesus DID go through all that violence and it was probably worse! Efforts to sugar coat Jesus's suffering are not acceptanle and totally discredit the extent of God's love towards us!

As for Passion for non believers, you guys are a testimony to its effect in your lives! Look, why are we having this conversation? BEcause Passion piqued your curiosity!!! For those of you who want to learn more why jesus died on the cross, I highly recommend the book "Passion of Jesus Christ" by John Piper!!! Or even better, start reading the bible!

Things to ponder.
Quotes from 'confused' audience

A - Ok, this is where I get confused, chris's dad has this plan, judas will betray chris to these people in funny robes, and they'll beat the living bejesus out of him, kill him, and then chris's dad will forgive everybody.

B - not quite, its like if you pissed me off, and did all kinds of bad things to me, so for me to forgive you, I send my only son to your place so that you can beat him, torture him, and kill him. Then, I'd forgive you for everything, see?

Quotes from Thomas Paine
-..and to tell him (a child) that it was done to make mankind happier and better, is making the story still worse; as if mankind could be improved by the example of murder; and to tell him that all this is a mystery, is only making an excuse for the incredibility of it.

-If I owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me. But if I have committed a crime, every circumstance of the case is changed. Moral justice cannot take the innocent for the guilty even if the innocent would offer itself. To suppose justice to do this, is to destroy the principle of its existence, which is the thing itself. It is then no longer justice. It is indiscriminate revenge.


I asked a Christian friend of mine who took some Jewish studies, but I was not really satisfied with the answer. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me with the logic of Christ dying for our sins.

[littlebigone]

Also another interesting fact-when you cruxify someone, the nail is driven through the wrist, not the palm. This is a fact that I learned from my housemate who is a religious studies major. She specializes in biblical accounts. Anyways, the palm will rip with the weight of the body.

adding somemore interesting facts about cruxificion

taken from some website:

Crucifixion


Crucifixion was invented by the Persians between 300-400 b.c. It was "perfected" by the Romans in the first century b.c. It is arguably the most painful death ever invented by man and is where we get our term "excruciating." It was reserved primarily for the most vicious of criminals.

The most common device used for crucifixion was a wooden cross, which consisted of an upright pole permanently fixed in the ground with a removable crossbar, usually weighing between 75-100 lbs. Victims of crucifixion were typically stripped naked and their clothing divided by the Roman guards. In Jesus' case this was done in fulfillment of Psalm 22:18, "They divide My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots."

As a gesture of "Roman kindness" the prisoner was offered a mixture of vinegar (gall) and wine as a mild anesthetic. This anesthetic was refused by Jesus.5 Consequently, He bore it all! The Apostle Peter stated of Jesus:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24
The victim was then placed on his back, arms stretched out and nailed to the cross bar. The nails, which were generally about 7-9 inches long, were placed between the bones of the forearm (the radius and ulna) and the small bones of the hands (the carpal bones). (Figure 1.)

The placement of the nail at this point had several effects. First it ensured that the victim would indeed hang there until dead. Secondly, a nail placed at this point would sever the largest nerve in the hand called the median nerve.

The severing of this nerve is a medical catastrophe. In addition to severe burning pain the destruction of this nerve causes permanent paralysis of the hand. Furthermore, by nailing the victim at this point in the wrist, there would be minimal bleeding and there would be no bones broken! Thus scriptures were fulfilled:

I can count all my bones: they look and stare upon me. Psalm 22:17
He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken. Psalm 34:20

The positioning of the feet is probably the most critical part of the mechanics of crucifixion. First the knees were flexed about 45 degrees and the feet were flexed (bent downward) an additional 45 degrees until they were parallel the vertical pole. An iron nail about 7-9 inches long was driven through the feet between the 2nd and 3rd metatarsal bones. In this position the nail would sever the dorsal pedal artery of the foot, but the resultant bleeding would be insufficient to cause death.

The Catastrophic Result

The resulting position on the cross sets up a horrific sequence of events which results in a slow, painful death. Having been pinned to the cross, the victim now has an impossible position to maintain. (Figure 2)

With the knees flexed at about 45 degrees, the victim must bear his weight with the muscles of the thigh. However, this is an almost impossible task-try to stand with your knees flexed at 45 degrees for 5 minutes. As the strength of the legs gives out, the weight of the body must now be borne by the arms and shoulders. The result is that within a few minutes of being placed on the cross, the shoulders will become dislocated. Minutes later the elbows and wrists become dislocated. The result of these dislocations is that the arms are as much as 6-9 inches longer than normal.

With the arms dislocated, considerable body weight is transferred to the chest, causing the rib cage to be elevated in a state of perpetual inhalation. Consequently, in order to exhale the victim must push down on his feet to allow the rib muscles to relax. The problem is that the victim cannot push very long because the legs are extremely fatigued. As time goes on, the victim is less and less able to bear weight on the legs, causing further dislocation of the arms and further raising of the chest wall, making breathing more and more difficult.

The result of this process is a series of catastrophic physiological effects. Because the victim cannot maintain adequate ventilation of the lungs, the blood oxygen level begins to diminish and the blood carbon dioxide (CO2) level begins to rise. This rising CO2 level stimulates the heart to beat faster in order to increase the delivery of oxygen and the removal of CO2.

However, due to the pinning of the victim and the limitations of oxygen delivery, the victim cannot deliver more oxygen and the rising heart rate only increases oxygen demand. So this process sets up a vicious cycle of increasing oxygen demand-which cannot be met-followed by an ever increasing heart rate. After several hours the heart begins to fail, the lungs collapse and fill up with fluid, which further decreases oxygen delivery to the tissues. The blood loss and hyperventilation combines to cause severe dehydration. That's why Jesus said, "I thirst."6

Over a period of several hours the combination of collapsing lungs, a failing heart, dehydration, and the inability to get adequate oxygen supplies to the tissues cause the eventual death of the victim. The victim, in effect, cannot breath properly and slowly suffocates to death. In cases of severe cardiac stress, such as crucifixion, a victim's heart can even burst. This process is called "Cardiac Rupture." Therefore it could be said that Jesus died of a "broken heart!"

To slow the process of death the executioners put a small wooden seat on the cross, which would allow the victim the privilege of bearing his weight on his buttocks. The effect of this was that it could take up to nine days to die on a cross.

When the Romans wanted to expedite death they would simply break the legs of the victim, causing him to suffocate in a matter of minutes. At three o'clock in the afternoon Jesus said, "Tetelastai," meaning "it is finished." Then He gave up the ghost. When the soldiers came to Jesus to break His legs, He was already dead. Not a bone of Him was broken!

[littlebigone]

Also another interesting fact-when you cruxify someone, the nail is driven through the wrist, not the palm. This is a fact that I learned from my housemate who is a religious studies major. She specializes in biblical accounts. Anyways, the palm will rip with the weight of the body.

adding somemore interesting facts about cruxificion

taken from some website:

Crucifixion


Crucifixion was invented by the Persians between 300-400 b.c. It was "perfected" by the Romans in the first century b.c. It is arguably the most painful death ever invented by man and is where we get our term "excruciating." It was reserved primarily for the most vicious of criminals.

The most common device used for crucifixion was a wooden cross, which consisted of an upright pole permanently fixed in the ground with a removable crossbar, usually weighing between 75-100 lbs. Victims of crucifixion were typically stripped naked and their clothing divided by the Roman guards. In Jesus' case this was done in fulfillment of Psalm 22:18, "They divide My garments among them, and for My clothing they cast lots."

As a gesture of "Roman kindness" the prisoner was offered a mixture of vinegar (gall) and wine as a mild anesthetic. This anesthetic was refused by Jesus.5 Consequently, He bore it all! The Apostle Peter stated of Jesus:

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24
The victim was then placed on his back, arms stretched out and nailed to the cross bar. The nails, which were generally about 7-9 inches long, were placed between the bones of the forearm (the radius and ulna) and the small bones of the hands (the carpal bones). (Figure 1.)

The placement of the nail at this point had several effects. First it ensured that the victim would indeed hang there until dead. Secondly, a nail placed at this point would sever the largest nerve in the hand called the median nerve.

The severing of this nerve is a medical catastrophe. In addition to severe burning pain the destruction of this nerve causes permanent paralysis of the hand. Furthermore, by nailing the victim at this point in the wrist, there would be minimal bleeding and there would be no bones broken! Thus scriptures were fulfilled:

I can count all my bones: they look and stare upon me. Psalm 22:17
He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken. Psalm 34:20

The positioning of the feet is probably the most critical part of the mechanics of crucifixion. First the knees were flexed about 45 degrees and the feet were flexed (bent downward) an additional 45 degrees until they were parallel the vertical pole. An iron nail about 7-9 inches long was driven through the feet between the 2nd and 3rd metatarsal bones. In this position the nail would sever the dorsal pedal artery of the foot, but the resultant bleeding would be insufficient to cause death.

The Catastrophic Result

The resulting position on the cross sets up a horrific sequence of events which results in a slow, painful death. Having been pinned to the cross, the victim now has an impossible position to maintain. (Figure 2)

With the knees flexed at about 45 degrees, the victim must bear his weight with the muscles of the thigh. However, this is an almost impossible task-try to stand with your knees flexed at 45 degrees for 5 minutes. As the strength of the legs gives out, the weight of the body must now be borne by the arms and shoulders. The result is that within a few minutes of being placed on the cross, the shoulders will become dislocated. Minutes later the elbows and wrists become dislocated. The result of these dislocations is that the arms are as much as 6-9 inches longer than normal.

With the arms dislocated, considerable body weight is transferred to the chest, causing the rib cage to be elevated in a state of perpetual inhalation. Consequently, in order to exhale the victim must push down on his feet to allow the rib muscles to relax. The problem is that the victim cannot push very long because the legs are extremely fatigued. As time goes on, the victim is less and less able to bear weight on the legs, causing further dislocation of the arms and further raising of the chest wall, making breathing more and more difficult.

The result of this process is a series of catastrophic physiological effects. Because the victim cannot maintain adequate ventilation of the lungs, the blood oxygen level begins to diminish and the blood carbon dioxide (CO2) level begins to rise. This rising CO2 level stimulates the heart to beat faster in order to increase the delivery of oxygen and the removal of CO2.

However, due to the pinning of the victim and the limitations of oxygen delivery, the victim cannot deliver more oxygen and the rising heart rate only increases oxygen demand. So this process sets up a vicious cycle of increasing oxygen demand-which cannot be met-followed by an ever increasing heart rate. After several hours the heart begins to fail, the lungs collapse and fill up with fluid, which further decreases oxygen delivery to the tissues. The blood loss and hyperventilation combines to cause severe dehydration. That's why Jesus said, "I thirst."6

Over a period of several hours the combination of collapsing lungs, a failing heart, dehydration, and the inability to get adequate oxygen supplies to the tissues cause the eventual death of the victim. The victim, in effect, cannot breath properly and slowly suffocates to death. In cases of severe cardiac stress, such as crucifixion, a victim's heart can even burst. This process is called "Cardiac Rupture." Therefore it could be said that Jesus died of a "broken heart!"

To slow the process of death the executioners put a small wooden seat on the cross, which would allow the victim the privilege of bearing his weight on his buttocks. The effect of this was that it could take up to nine days to die on a cross.

When the Romans wanted to expedite death they would simply break the legs of the victim, causing him to suffocate in a matter of minutes. At three o'clock in the afternoon Jesus said, "Tetelastai," meaning "it is finished." Then He gave up the ghost. When the soldiers came to Jesus to break His legs, He was already dead. Not a bone of Him was broken!

[soul_out]

Darn kevin....i felt the pain....

[soul_out]

Darn kevin....i felt the pain....

[wwhong]

so the bottom line is no matter how much sin you do, as long as u believe in god and u will go to heaven?

[wwhong]

so the bottom line is no matter how much sin you do, as long as u believe in god and u will go to heaven?

[topdog]

so the bottom line is no matter how much sin you do, as long as u believe in god and u will go to heaven?

nope, that's not the bottom line. you have to be repentant for your sins. can't just kill someone and relax knowing that you'll go to heaven anyway just because you believe in god (that's an extreme example, but you get the point la). there's a whole lot of doctrine about sin and penitence (in the roman catholic faith) that i'm not knowledgeable enough to write about. maybe you would want to check out the vatican site (http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm) or this catholic site (http://www.newadvent.org) to see if you can get some answers.

the thing is...notions of sin/punishment vary among christians themselves. if you read certain parts of the bible very literally (particularly the old testament), you could well conclude that god is uncompromising, that non-believers will be banished to hell and believers have already earned their place in heaven. on the other hand, the new testament carries a more hopeful message, that of forgiveness etc. this part of the bible is filled with repentant sinners who were redeemed by the lord, like mary magdelene, the apostle paul.

i personally believe that regardless of one's religious inclination (or lack of it), as long as one does not harm others, one should be fine.

[topdog]

so the bottom line is no matter how much sin you do, as long as u believe in god and u will go to heaven?

nope, that's not the bottom line. you have to be repentant for your sins. can't just kill someone and relax knowing that you'll go to heaven anyway just because you believe in god (that's an extreme example, but you get the point la). there's a whole lot of doctrine about sin and penitence (in the roman catholic faith) that i'm not knowledgeable enough to write about. maybe you would want to check out the vatican site (http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm) or this catholic site (http://www.newadvent.org) to see if you can get some answers.

the thing is...notions of sin/punishment vary among christians themselves. if you read certain parts of the bible very literally (particularly the old testament), you could well conclude that god is uncompromising, that non-believers will be banished to hell and believers have already earned their place in heaven. on the other hand, the new testament carries a more hopeful message, that of forgiveness etc. this part of the bible is filled with repentant sinners who were redeemed by the lord, like mary magdelene, the apostle paul.

i personally believe that regardless of one's religious inclination (or lack of it), as long as one does not harm others, one should be fine.

[Vigilante]

would I still be fine if I do no harm to others, and in fact contributed a lot to the world, BUT not having faith in a god(s) that the religion specifically demanded?

[Vigilante]

would I still be fine if I do no harm to others, and in fact contributed a lot to the world, BUT not having faith in a god(s) that the religion specifically demanded?

[wwhong]

yeah that's one of the stuff i was thinking too...let say there's a perfect person (I say IF) that do not know about the existence of god and therefore won't be a god follower, he will still be condemned to hell like someone said before that those who do not believe in him will be condemned to hell?

[wwhong]

yeah that's one of the stuff i was thinking too...let say there's a perfect person (I say IF) that do not know about the existence of god and therefore won't be a god follower, he will still be condemned to hell like someone said before that those who do not believe in him will be condemned to hell?

[aquila]

yeah that's one of the stuff i was thinking too...let say there's a perfect person (I say IF) that do not know about the existence of god and therefore won't be a god follower, he will still be condemned to hell like someone said before that those who do not believe in him will be condemned to hell?

interesting observation... i had some of the same questions myself... actually, those who have not heard the gospel will be judged by their works... meaning your imaginary perfect man who hasn't heard about Christ will go to heaven... others who have heard the gospel will be judged by if they believe

[aquila]

yeah that's one of the stuff i was thinking too...let say there's a perfect person (I say IF) that do not know about the existence of god and therefore won't be a god follower, he will still be condemned to hell like someone said before that those who do not believe in him will be condemned to hell?

interesting observation... i had some of the same questions myself... actually, those who have not heard the gospel will be judged by their works... meaning your imaginary perfect man who hasn't heard about Christ will go to heaven... others who have heard the gospel will be judged by if they believe

[Thirdshifter]

Just a reminder, If this turn into a religious debate.. the whole topic will disappear. Now, carry on.

[Thirdshifter]

Just a reminder, If this turn into a religious debate.. the whole topic will disappear. Now, carry on.

[tree007]

I think The Passion won't be shown in Malaysia because it depicts a prophet (Nabi Isa)...as in, an actor plays the role of a prophet... which is.. forbidden.. rite?

same went to "Prince of Egypt"... ALMOST made it here.. but in the end.. "it depicted Nabi Musa".. darn...

[tree007]

I think The Passion won't be shown in Malaysia because it depicts a prophet (Nabi Isa)...as in, an actor plays the role of a prophet... which is.. forbidden.. rite?

same went to "Prince of Egypt"... ALMOST made it here.. but in the end.. "it depicted Nabi Musa".. darn...

[topdog]

yup i don't it could possibly be shown in malaysia. but there's always ways to see it...like...vcd?

[topdog]

yup i don't it could possibly be shown in malaysia. but there's always ways to see it...like...vcd?

[Thirdshifter]

According to the Quran, Jesus was not Crucified. It was Judas that was miraculously transformed to resemble Jesus appereance.

Also according to fundematalist Islamist, A potrayal of any Prophet is a Sin. Its also a Sin for muslims to watch it. Since the majorities of Malaysians are Muslims we can't but to avoid a mass_sinning :D

[Thirdshifter]

According to the Quran, Jesus was not Crucified. It was Judas that was miraculously transformed to resemble Jesus appereance.

Also according to fundematalist Islamist, A potrayal of any Prophet is a Sin. Its also a Sin for muslims to watch it. Since the majorities of Malaysians are Muslims we can't but to avoid a mass_sinning :D

[wwhong]

According to the Quran, Jesus was not Crucified. It was Judas that was miraculously transformed to resemble Jesus appereance.

Also according to fundematalist Islamist, A potrayal of any Prophet is a Sin. Its also a Sin for muslims to watch it. Since the majorities of Malaysians are Muslims we can't but to avoid a mass_sinning :D

seems like different place have different story. anyway, history is written by winner and doesn't necassary including everything in the scenario. so, it just depends on which one you choose to believe. nothing wrong with that, it's just faith.

oops sorry, seems like i have deviated from the topic...

anyway, just curious why is it a sin with the potrayal of prophet and why is it a sin for muslim to watch it? what's the reasons behind that?

i m not trying to spark a religious discussion or debate but just want to know more.

[wwhong]

According to the Quran, Jesus was not Crucified. It was Judas that was miraculously transformed to resemble Jesus appereance.

Also according to fundematalist Islamist, A potrayal of any Prophet is a Sin. Its also a Sin for muslims to watch it. Since the majorities of Malaysians are Muslims we can't but to avoid a mass_sinning :D

seems like different place have different story. anyway, history is written by winner and doesn't necassary including everything in the scenario. so, it just depends on which one you choose to believe. nothing wrong with that, it's just faith.

oops sorry, seems like i have deviated from the topic...

anyway, just curious why is it a sin with the potrayal of prophet and why is it a sin for muslim to watch it? what's the reasons behind that?

i m not trying to spark a religious discussion or debate but just want to know more.

[Thirdshifter]

WWhong,

The potrayal of Prophets is a Sin according to Islam because;

It will somehow make Muslims start hanging the potraits of Prophets and start worshipping it, also Muhammad himself asked not to be remembered physically. Drawing, statue etc. If memory servers me right. He wants to be just known as the messenger of god.

Also most of early Muslims were pagans, and to avoid them to start using Muhammads or any other prophet to be used as a symbol it was outlawed.

Since Outlaw in the terms of Islam simply means commiting a sin.

In any religion there's no such thing as crime. It's either a Sin or a deed.

hope that helps.

[Thirdshifter]

WWhong,

The potrayal of Prophets is a Sin according to Islam because;

It will somehow make Muslims start hanging the potraits of Prophets and start worshipping it, also Muhammad himself asked not to be remembered physically. Drawing, statue etc. If memory servers me right. He wants to be just known as the messenger of god.

Also most of early Muslims were pagans, and to avoid them to start using Muhammads or any other prophet to be used as a symbol it was outlawed.

Since Outlaw in the terms of Islam simply means commiting a sin.

In any religion there's no such thing as crime. It's either a Sin or a deed.

hope that helps.

[yekban81]

The Passion of the Christ is not entertaining at all; I don't think it's worth to watch in Cinema for those seeking entertainment and relaxation. It is more like a documentary depicting the torturement of Jesus till his death. Horrible.

Here in Malaysia, it would be definitely banned due to same reason as why The Prince of Egypt was banned.

I am not a christian and do not know much about Jesus and his life till death. Just wanna to know more:

1. Who is the ghostly evil "woman" in black? Satan?

2. The evil woman carried a child who smiled wickedly at the scene where Jesus was being whipped. What does that mean?

3. What had Jesus written on the soil that the priests stopped stoning at the woman(is she really a prostitute? or she is innocent and wrong accused of adultery) ?

4. Who is the other guy who always with Mary and the "saved from stoning" woman(haha..forget name liao)? He called Mary as mother, didn't he.

[soul_out]

I just watched yesterday.

1. Ya, i think it is Satan, the devil.

2. Not 100% sure bout wat it means. But i personally think that devil is trying to tempt Jesus to reveal his "power" so that he don't have to be tortured. Jesus himself wanted to be tortured and be crucified becoz all these has already being destinied and Jesus is doing it upon his Father, God's will. That's y he was struggling in the begining of the show by asking for direction from God when he knew that Judah was going to betreyed him and put onto death.

3. Please enlighten.

4. I don't really sure about his name, but for sure he is 1 of Jesus 12 disciples. Mother Mary is Jesus's mother.

[Melo_15]

"It will somehow make Muslims start hanging the potraits of Prophets and start worshipping it, also Muhammad himself asked not to be remembered physically. Drawing, statue etc. If memory servers me right. He wants to be just known as the messenger of god. "-Thirdshifter

as far as i know, Islam does not regard jesus as the son of God, juz another prophet...but Jesus is also God....for christians...he just came to the earth to 'die' for our sins....coz John 3:16 for god so love the world that he gave his only son (jesus) that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life....

he died on the cross so that we are not subjectted to eternal death...but we also need to repent...cant just sit back n relax.... if he juz merely a prophet, he cant be raised from the death rite? one thing we believe, jesus will come again...to judge the world.... erm this is just for information....so that u all will have the right picture of the significance of this movie..... to view him as saviour of mankind....
[/quote]

[abdullah]

According to the Quran, Jesus was not Crucified. It was Judas that was miraculously transformed to resemble Jesus appereance.


There are many references to Jesus son of Mary in the Qur'an. The clearest verse about his alleged crucification is here:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.157

[abdullah]

nabi isa was "dibawa ke langit" or something like that right?
At least that's what my Muslim friend told me.

According to this verse and the one following it:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.157

Jesus son of Mary was raised to God Al-Mighty Himself.

Another reference:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.055

[Ic3b3rg]

4. Who is the other guy who always with Mary and the "saved from stoning" woman(haha..forget name liao)? He called Mary as mother, didn't he.

i think he is Mary's other son....anybody knows his name??

[eunice]

4. Who is the other guy who always with Mary and the "saved from stoning" woman(haha..forget name liao)? He called Mary as mother, didn't he.

i think he is Mary's other son....anybody knows his name??

His name is John if I'm not mistaken, Jesus' brother.

[eunice]

The Passion of the Christ is not entertaining at all; I don't think it's worth to watch in Cinema for those seeking entertainment and relaxation. It is more like a documentary depicting the torturement of Jesus till his death. Horrible.

Here in Malaysia, it would be definitely banned due to same reason as why The Prince of Egypt was banned.

I am not a christian and do not know much about Jesus and his life till death. Just wanna to know more:

1. Who is the ghostly evil "woman" in black? Satan?

2. The evil woman carried a child who smiled wickedly at the scene where Jesus was being whipped. What does that mean?

3. What had Jesus written on the soil that the priests stopped stoning at the woman(is she really a prostitute? or she is innocent and wrong accused of adultery) ?

4. Who is the other guy who always with Mary and the "saved from stoning" woman(haha..forget name liao)? He called Mary as mother, didn't he.

2. The child Satan was carrying represents the Anti-Christ.

3. She was a prositute. Jesus wrote ... Let whoever without sin, cast the first stone. She was a sinner. Jesus was teaching us not to judge one another. The priests were also sinners. All of us are.

[Ic3b3rg]

thanx, eunice for clarifying that.... i really appreciate it..... i think that is very enlightening about how christians should treat each other ..... and also how devotees of other religions should treat their "brothers and sisters" too...

[topdog]

4. Who is the other guy who always with Mary and the "saved from stoning" woman(haha..forget name liao)? He called Mary as mother, didn't he.

i think he is Mary's other son....anybody knows his name??

His name is John if I'm not mistaken, Jesus' brother.
he was not jesus' brother. (jesus didn't have any brothers in the biological sense, since mary was pure*) he was jesus' disciple. the gospel of john (where the scene appeared) never actually mentions the disciple's name. here's the relevant passage:

When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near,
he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!"
And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
- Gospel of John 19:26-27

*according to catholic dogma. tpotc is based on the bible and catholic traditions.

[ElansarGelmir]

he was not jesus' brother. (jesus didn't have any brothers in the biological sense, since mary was pure*) he was jesus' disciple. the gospel of john (where the scene appeared) never actually mentions the disciple's name.

It's also correct to say John was Jesus's brother, cause they are Brother in Christ. So are we (Christian's belief) - belonged to the heavenly Father. That makes us brothers and sisters in Christ as well.

[CyberJaya]

I thought the film was very bloody but well shot. They shouuld have probably shown more of his time with the disciples.

[agape]

They shouuld have probably shown more of his time with the disciples.

Yeah,maybe.At least the message of the movie is clear to me.In my opinion,the movie reminds me not to take for granted the sufferings He had gone through for us to gain eternal life. :D Therefore Good Friday and Easter are very significant to Christians.Though another Easter year has gone by,lets continue to remember that Jesus is much alive today,for He is risen!! :D

[spanker]

as a non Christian, I found the movie boring. Yeah I know what's the story behind the last supper and all, but i'm not feeling it. Probably because I don't believe it.

I don't even know why Malaysian govt restricted it only for christians. apart from the gore, there's really nothing controversial about it.

[Gabriel]

For me,it's still a very good movie.it teaches us lots of things

[PJKru]

op

[khor_albert]

I am a Christian.

The film's focus is on the pain, distress, struggle and sacrifice that is being done by Jesus Christ to save our sins so that we can go to Heaven. That's the main focus. I disagree that it should show more time of Jesus with his disciples because those are teachings, because it's not the main point. No any single human after that or before that can repeat what Jesus do on the cross 2 thousand years ago, which is historically proven.

However, on the general view, the show should not be restricted in the first place. Hypothetically, if the restriction of the show has something to do with religion, let us Malaysians know that there's no 100% freedom for religion. Besides, if the non-Christians are firm on their religion, nothing can shatter it, let alone a 2-hour thriller.