Form 6 and private colleges' pre-u foundation courses

[morpheous]

any comments,anyone?

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/29/education/7394169&sec=education

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/29/education/7378276&sec=education


Sunday February 29, 2004

STPM and A-Levels students more mature and responsible

I WOULD like to add to the letter by ?STPM Parent? (StarEducation, Feb 22). I hope this will help parents who are contemplating sending their children to any pre-university course, such as STPM, A-Levels and the like.

Having taught students from pre-university level up to master?s level for more than 10 years now, I have made the following observations:

Students who have had some form of pre-university education are more mature in their thinking and outlook when they embark on any university degree course, compared to those who do so straight after Form Five. They also tend to be more independent and responsible.

Most of the diploma students I have taught, who came straight after SPM, are childish in their attitude and behaviour.

On the other hand, most of the Advanced Diploma students who came in after STPM or A-Levels know how to behave, and it does not take much effort to teach them. They know what they want, and they know how to do things without much prodding.

A number of colleges nowadays offer what they call a foundation course, in lieu of pre-university courses. While this is an attempt to meet the Education Ministry?s requirements for a four-year degree programme, the course content of the foundation courses offered is very superficial ? it?s only 25% or less than that of the STPM and A-Levels.

These foundation students may encounter difficulty later on in their studies because of the lack of a firm and solid foundation, compared to those who have taken the STPM or A-Levels.

I always tell students that if they have a strong foundation in the STPM or A-Levels, they should not have much difficulty in university.

The Education Ministry should look more closely at the content of these foundation courses to ensure they are on par with the STPM and A-Levels.

Some may argue that the 18 months spent studying for the STPM or A-Levels is a waste of time. I totally disagree. What is the point of doing a fast-track degree and getting into the working world earlier than their peers if these young people have not learnt how to behave and act the way they should?

Somehow those 18 months help students become more mature and responsible. I have seen this happening many a time and I still see it happening. Is it any wonder then that some graduates have difficulty finding employment?

Is it due to their lack of maturity or the way they carry themselves at interviews? Or is it because they don?t know how to be humble (being so proud of their university degrees) when meeting prospective employers?

I would advise parents to think carefully before making any decisions for their children. Do not be taken by smooth-talking college counsellors who say that any pre-university programme is a waste of time and that their programme is better than the STPM or A-Levels. Do some research and fact-finding.

Talk to parents of students who have undergone a pre-university programme and those whose children have gone straight into a university programme, and compare your findings. After all, you owe it to yourselves to give your children the very best education.


DR YEE CM

Petaling Jaya, Selangor

[morpheous]

any comments,anyone?

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/29/education/7394169&sec=education

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/29/education/7378276&sec=education


Sunday February 29, 2004

STPM and A-Levels students more mature and responsible

I WOULD like to add to the letter by ?STPM Parent? (StarEducation, Feb 22). I hope this will help parents who are contemplating sending their children to any pre-university course, such as STPM, A-Levels and the like.

Having taught students from pre-university level up to master?s level for more than 10 years now, I have made the following observations:

Students who have had some form of pre-university education are more mature in their thinking and outlook when they embark on any university degree course, compared to those who do so straight after Form Five. They also tend to be more independent and responsible.

Most of the diploma students I have taught, who came straight after SPM, are childish in their attitude and behaviour.

On the other hand, most of the Advanced Diploma students who came in after STPM or A-Levels know how to behave, and it does not take much effort to teach them. They know what they want, and they know how to do things without much prodding.

A number of colleges nowadays offer what they call a foundation course, in lieu of pre-university courses. While this is an attempt to meet the Education Ministry?s requirements for a four-year degree programme, the course content of the foundation courses offered is very superficial ? it?s only 25% or less than that of the STPM and A-Levels.

These foundation students may encounter difficulty later on in their studies because of the lack of a firm and solid foundation, compared to those who have taken the STPM or A-Levels.

I always tell students that if they have a strong foundation in the STPM or A-Levels, they should not have much difficulty in university.

The Education Ministry should look more closely at the content of these foundation courses to ensure they are on par with the STPM and A-Levels.

Some may argue that the 18 months spent studying for the STPM or A-Levels is a waste of time. I totally disagree. What is the point of doing a fast-track degree and getting into the working world earlier than their peers if these young people have not learnt how to behave and act the way they should?

Somehow those 18 months help students become more mature and responsible. I have seen this happening many a time and I still see it happening. Is it any wonder then that some graduates have difficulty finding employment?

Is it due to their lack of maturity or the way they carry themselves at interviews? Or is it because they don?t know how to be humble (being so proud of their university degrees) when meeting prospective employers?

I would advise parents to think carefully before making any decisions for their children. Do not be taken by smooth-talking college counsellors who say that any pre-university programme is a waste of time and that their programme is better than the STPM or A-Levels. Do some research and fact-finding.

Talk to parents of students who have undergone a pre-university programme and those whose children have gone straight into a university programme, and compare your findings. After all, you owe it to yourselves to give your children the very best education.


DR YEE CM

Petaling Jaya, Selangor

[chenchow]

Personally, I disagree with Dr. Yee on the extremity of the situation. I think he has gone a little bit off tangent and get a little bit too emotional and make a number of sweeping statements.

While STPM or A Level would help to improve the students, this is no doubt, I think the best playing field would be to judge it on the students of same level. Not sure how we are going to measure it, but I think it is not suitable to just compare in that sense.

For instance, STPM does have cutoff point for qualification to take STPM and it is done by government, whereas a lot of foundation programs are done by private colleges, where the students level differ. There are some very top students and some average students. Another comparison would be whom Dr. Yee compare between. Did he compare between the top students from STPM/A Level with the students from average college or the top-notch colleges.

Another thing would be that studies should not be the sole judgment.

What is others take on this?

[chenchow]

Personally, I disagree with Dr. Yee on the extremity of the situation. I think he has gone a little bit off tangent and get a little bit too emotional and make a number of sweeping statements.

While STPM or A Level would help to improve the students, this is no doubt, I think the best playing field would be to judge it on the students of same level. Not sure how we are going to measure it, but I think it is not suitable to just compare in that sense.

For instance, STPM does have cutoff point for qualification to take STPM and it is done by government, whereas a lot of foundation programs are done by private colleges, where the students level differ. There are some very top students and some average students. Another comparison would be whom Dr. Yee compare between. Did he compare between the top students from STPM/A Level with the students from average college or the top-notch colleges.

Another thing would be that studies should not be the sole judgment.

What is others take on this?

[soul_out]

I think this Dr. Yee is ridiculous. Anyway, this is just his/her personal judgement. He/she is not a pre-u expert though.

Students might look childish or behave childish in the class, but did the so called Dr. Yee really know them personally? Students who is not serious to his/her study doesn't mean they are not serious to their life. Come on, life is not just brilliant results.

Last but not least, there are always exceptional.

[soul_out]

I think this Dr. Yee is ridiculous. Anyway, this is just his/her personal judgement. He/she is not a pre-u expert though.

Students might look childish or behave childish in the class, but did the so called Dr. Yee really know them personally? Students who is not serious to his/her study doesn't mean they are not serious to their life. Come on, life is not just brilliant results.

Last but not least, there are always exceptional.

[Hush]

Frankly, I dare not say if Dr Yee is right or wrong because everyone is entitled to his or her own views. I was an A-Levels student. So, perhaps, I can give some personal impressions on A-Levels or STPM here.

A-Levels (at the same time, I am referring to STPM also since they are quite the same) is undoubtedly very demanding although its syllabus has been changed. We got no assignments to be handed in. So, constant revision is very much needed from the first day of lesson itself. We cover quite a number of aspects for each subject. Many of my friends who are at university level now have been constantly telling me that their life in the first year was made much easier because what they were supposed to learn was taught already in A-Levels. Another friend of mine said he had to strive really hard in first year because he did not learn most of thing in his one-year foundation programme.

So, this may be the advantage of A-Levels. Moreover, it's more recognised and accepted by the top-notch universities around the world.

But, regarding the matter of A-Levels students being more matured, I don't think it's that true. Whether or not one is mature does not rely on what course he or she takes. It's just the attitude, which can be influenced by so many factors. I had one classmate who was very childish. Basically, he was a bit like a troublemaker. Well, he was sometimes okay.

This is just my view.

[Hush]

Frankly, I dare not say if Dr Yee is right or wrong because everyone is entitled to his or her own views. I was an A-Levels student. So, perhaps, I can give some personal impressions on A-Levels or STPM here.

A-Levels (at the same time, I am referring to STPM also since they are quite the same) is undoubtedly very demanding although its syllabus has been changed. We got no assignments to be handed in. So, constant revision is very much needed from the first day of lesson itself. We cover quite a number of aspects for each subject. Many of my friends who are at university level now have been constantly telling me that their life in the first year was made much easier because what they were supposed to learn was taught already in A-Levels. Another friend of mine said he had to strive really hard in first year because he did not learn most of thing in his one-year foundation programme.

So, this may be the advantage of A-Levels. Moreover, it's more recognised and accepted by the top-notch universities around the world.

But, regarding the matter of A-Levels students being more matured, I don't think it's that true. Whether or not one is mature does not rely on what course he or she takes. It's just the attitude, which can be influenced by so many factors. I had one classmate who was very childish. Basically, he was a bit like a troublemaker. Well, he was sometimes okay.

This is just my view.

[jiinjoo]

Surprisingly, this is not the first time I've heard that statement. It must be a very established mentality / rumor. I was encouraged to take A-levels / STPM when I was in Form 5 because people say you'll be more mature and wise. They told me that the rigourous training from a good STPM might change your attitude towards life.

Naturally there's no way for any person to verify it by themselves - you can't both take and don't take STPM at the same time to compare them, nor do you know enough about people to judge their "maturity", probably just a rouge guess.

However, one can construct an argument that will result in this correlation, and yet has nothing to do with the course itself. Granted rumor has it that STPM / A-Level is harder, SPM students will self-select themselves into the appropriate courses. If you "heard" that STPM is suicidal, and you like the challenge, then you'll probably do that. If you're sort of done with exams, and just want to get some reasonable degree, and you "heard" that some Inti foundation course sounds easy, you'll naturally opt for it (as long as you can pay). This self-selection reinforces the rumor, at the same time reinforces the observer, e.g. people like Dr. Yee, of the stereotype applied.

Taking it one step further: perhaps it is true - Dr Yee's argument that hardship makes you a man (or tough lady). No one knows exactly how and why. It just happens. I remember moaning about the lack of co-curricular participation in school, observing that students who don't put in effort trying to organize events, or practise their instruments, or write / sing / dance / march / draw etc. etc. end up less likely to appreciate people's hard work, and in some specific cases, not really knowing how to work with people, respect one another, and dedicate oneself to a common goal. In my school, I only see STPM students really coming together and study together. SPM and PMR students are more likely to take on the subjects themselves, utilizing only tuition teachers if school teachers weren't approachable. Is it this kind of dynamic that Dr. Yee is referring to?

[jiinjoo]

Surprisingly, this is not the first time I've heard that statement. It must be a very established mentality / rumor. I was encouraged to take A-levels / STPM when I was in Form 5 because people say you'll be more mature and wise. They told me that the rigourous training from a good STPM might change your attitude towards life.

Naturally there's no way for any person to verify it by themselves - you can't both take and don't take STPM at the same time to compare them, nor do you know enough about people to judge their "maturity", probably just a rouge guess.

However, one can construct an argument that will result in this correlation, and yet has nothing to do with the course itself. Granted rumor has it that STPM / A-Level is harder, SPM students will self-select themselves into the appropriate courses. If you "heard" that STPM is suicidal, and you like the challenge, then you'll probably do that. If you're sort of done with exams, and just want to get some reasonable degree, and you "heard" that some Inti foundation course sounds easy, you'll naturally opt for it (as long as you can pay). This self-selection reinforces the rumor, at the same time reinforces the observer, e.g. people like Dr. Yee, of the stereotype applied.

Taking it one step further: perhaps it is true - Dr Yee's argument that hardship makes you a man (or tough lady). No one knows exactly how and why. It just happens. I remember moaning about the lack of co-curricular participation in school, observing that students who don't put in effort trying to organize events, or practise their instruments, or write / sing / dance / march / draw etc. etc. end up less likely to appreciate people's hard work, and in some specific cases, not really knowing how to work with people, respect one another, and dedicate oneself to a common goal. In my school, I only see STPM students really coming together and study together. SPM and PMR students are more likely to take on the subjects themselves, utilizing only tuition teachers if school teachers weren't approachable. Is it this kind of dynamic that Dr. Yee is referring to?

[masterof_none]

maybe Dr Yee is right?.

although his generalization is always dangerous, I think he's got the point : that the STPM people would act more like a "college student".

But, what's the definition of "college student"?. people who act maturely?. or just a bunch of kids who just need to finish their degree and start working.

I myself want to take STPM so badly, realizing that I need to learn more to gain more insight of what is going on in a particular subject.
At that time, I heard the rumor that matriculation is not so good because ppl are playing more than studying.

I end up taking A-Level, which, from my point of view, help me a lot in gaining insight of a lot of subjects, (economics, esp).

The thing is, matriculation is designed to make it easier for the Malays kids to get into college. Otherwise, it would be hard for them to get in.
(Or, is it? )

But, do we still need matriculation now?. or,if we think that the
STPM + Matriculation system is bad, what should we do to solve the problem?. What do we want actually?.. people taking SAT ?.

Or...

come up with the new model?
If that's so, what model do you think is good?.

[masterof_none]

maybe Dr Yee is right?.

although his generalization is always dangerous, I think he's got the point : that the STPM people would act more like a "college student".

But, what's the definition of "college student"?. people who act maturely?. or just a bunch of kids who just need to finish their degree and start working.

I myself want to take STPM so badly, realizing that I need to learn more to gain more insight of what is going on in a particular subject.
At that time, I heard the rumor that matriculation is not so good because ppl are playing more than studying.

I end up taking A-Level, which, from my point of view, help me a lot in gaining insight of a lot of subjects, (economics, esp).

The thing is, matriculation is designed to make it easier for the Malays kids to get into college. Otherwise, it would be hard for them to get in.
(Or, is it? )

But, do we still need matriculation now?. or,if we think that the
STPM + Matriculation system is bad, what should we do to solve the problem?. What do we want actually?.. people taking SAT ?.

Or...

come up with the new model?
If that's so, what model do you think is good?.

[Yeogolas]

What is the topic about be relax's brother must patient..
don't be gabra man do be fucker man son of a bitch is stupid like bullshit...
sucker but is sucker...

[Yeogolas]

What is the topic about be relax's brother must patient..
don't be gabra man do be fucker man son of a bitch is stupid like bullshit...
sucker but is sucker...

[trishotiwuth]

Speaking of matriculation and Form 6... I don't think they help much in preparing students for university/college life. They are both still exam-orientated, just like SPM. Because places are limited in the our local unis (especially for expensive courses like medic, pharmacy and engineering) students have to work their butts off to secure a place. Emphasis is so heavily placed upon exams that students do not have time to reflect on what they've gained in the learning process (e.g cooperation, teamwork, communication skills).

p/s: still not too late to congratulate those who did well in the STPM...you guys have braved through hell :)

[trishotiwuth]

Speaking of matriculation and Form 6... I don't think they help much in preparing students for university/college life. They are both still exam-orientated, just like SPM. Because places are limited in the our local unis (especially for expensive courses like medic, pharmacy and engineering) students have to work their butts off to secure a place. Emphasis is so heavily placed upon exams that students do not have time to reflect on what they've gained in the learning process (e.g cooperation, teamwork, communication skills).

p/s: still not too late to congratulate those who did well in the STPM...you guys have braved through hell :)