Are Third World Countries being oppressed by Globalisation?

[DecentMerson]

Want to get some opinion from Malaysian all over the world.....
I'm going to write a paper (final assignment for Advanced Composition) on this..... just getting some opinion....

To start with, I think that Third World Countries are being oppressed by Globalisation.....

Cheap Labour... The GAP fashion label is a very good example...

Unfair Trade.... The third world farmers are oppressed by the international dealers....

Debt... The IMF and Super Powers gaining control over the 3rd world by giving loans with lots of preconditions....

Alliance... When u are not with the superpowers, u are against them....

wat do u think??? :roll:

[DecentMerson]

Want to get some opinion from Malaysian all over the world.....
I'm going to write a paper (final assignment for Advanced Composition) on this..... just getting some opinion....

To start with, I think that Third World Countries are being oppressed by Globalisation.....

Cheap Labour... The GAP fashion label is a very good example...

Unfair Trade.... The third world farmers are oppressed by the international dealers....

Debt... The IMF and Super Powers gaining control over the 3rd world by giving loans with lots of preconditions....

Alliance... When u are not with the superpowers, u are against them....

wat do u think??? :roll:

[jiinjoo]

Read Amy Chua - World on Fire - if you can grab the book from the library or buy it. I found some excerpts online:

http://www.randomhouse.com/anchor/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0385721862&view=excerpt

Her argument concentrates on how uncontrolled free market liberalization can actually hurt developing nations, especially when the liberalization leads to a rich minority.

Don't worry, it's a relatively easy read. That will give you a good enough idea. There are others that disagrees with Amy, but I find myself resonating with her arguments more.


masterof_none, remember the book I was reading when I was in LA? The collection of Mahathir's speeches on Globalization? What's the title - maybe can give it to DecentMerson too? Mahathir is less critical than Amy. He has a different view on globalization and how one should shape it to make it work with developing nations, especially in the context of Malaysia.

A few days ago we debated whether we should have a AMF (Asian Monetary Fund), probably headed by Japan, China. Maybe you should also think about it - if we were to set up a AMF instead to backup the Asian economy, how should we do it? What's the fundamental problem that developing nations are facing actually? I know for one, we have little "rules", especially in the current craze to form bilateral relations with various countries and to get AFTA off the ground etc. But is this the ultimate aim of global free trade?

[jiinjoo]

Read Amy Chua - World on Fire - if you can grab the book from the library or buy it. I found some excerpts online:

http://www.randomhouse.com/anchor/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0385721862&view=excerpt

Her argument concentrates on how uncontrolled free market liberalization can actually hurt developing nations, especially when the liberalization leads to a rich minority.

Don't worry, it's a relatively easy read. That will give you a good enough idea. There are others that disagrees with Amy, but I find myself resonating with her arguments more.


masterof_none, remember the book I was reading when I was in LA? The collection of Mahathir's speeches on Globalization? What's the title - maybe can give it to DecentMerson too? Mahathir is less critical than Amy. He has a different view on globalization and how one should shape it to make it work with developing nations, especially in the context of Malaysia.

A few days ago we debated whether we should have a AMF (Asian Monetary Fund), probably headed by Japan, China. Maybe you should also think about it - if we were to set up a AMF instead to backup the Asian economy, how should we do it? What's the fundamental problem that developing nations are facing actually? I know for one, we have little "rules", especially in the current craze to form bilateral relations with various countries and to get AFTA off the ground etc. But is this the ultimate aim of global free trade?

[oxherd]

Another good book is 'Globalisation and its discontents' by Joseph Stiglitz, a former Nobel Prize winner in economics and former head of the World Bank. His illustration of the problems manifest in globalistion was the bad policies of the IMF and the World Bank, a theme that Dr. Mahathir was fond of repeating (and was ultimately justified for doing so) during Asian economic crisis.

[chenchow]

I talked to Joseph Stiglitz about 2 years ago, when he came to campus. There were so much hoo-haa against Malaysia's policy and Joseph Stiglitz stood out to defence the policy that Dr. M had done. He claimed partial credit for Malaysia's unorthodox policy. He had met Dr. M many times and advised Malaysia to take those moves that we had taken.

[misled_youth]

Anyone studying in MIT? Heard of Noam Chomsky?

Essential readings:

Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance (The American Empire Project) by Noam Chomsky

Manufacturing Consent : The Political Economy of the Mass Media by Noam Chomsky (Author), Edward S. Herman (Author) (Paperback)

Profit Over People: Neoliberalism & Global Order by Noam Chomsky, et al (Paperback - November 1998)
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[windy_city]

wah, so many people are against globalization.
Seem that I am one of the few who actually support it.
I dun think globalization is that bad, and I think people who protest at the WTO summit are just ignorance to some of the benefit of globalization.

And I think third world countries will be worst off without globalization.

[__earth]

I was about to suggest "globalization and its discontent" but somebody else beat me to it.
but i believe its globalization with a Z, at least where the book is concerned =).

i essentially believe your thesis is too strong. globalization does not oppress third world countries. rather, its lack of regulation that allows this. or the lack of regulation enforcement. and the reason third countries seem to be oppressed is that, there is a lack of regulation and its enforcement in these countries. and this allows the multinational/transnational/whatver you call it these days to manipulate the labor.

globalization actually is all about comparative advantage. in theory, where globalization is done with fair trade, everybody benefits. but of course, i'm not saying right now, we are enjoying fair trade - but we are enjoying globalization.

i would suggest you change your thesis from globalization oppresses the poor to unfair trade oppresses the third world nations.

[windy_city]

Globalization is not always pretty, I agreed with that, especially when you buy a Banana Republics?s shirt which cost about 100USD and leaned that the wage paid to the worker that making the shirt is no more than 2 dollars per day. But this does not mean that globalization is bad.

The point I want to make is that the third world countries are not poor because they are oppressed by third world countries or because their workers earn extremely low wages, it is the other way around, it is because they are so poor that jobs that looks shity to us is better than no jobs to them. These countries cannot compete globally with other manufacturers in the western country because of their low productivity and bad infrastructure, so their only weapon in the world market is the low wage. If their workers are pay at a higher wage, they will lose their edge in competing in the world market, thus lose their jobs (nobody want to invest in non-profit industry, unless you are non-profit organization) .

Some say that hiring child labor in the sweatshops (like GAP) is inhumane and is against human rights and bla bla?..
Ok, let me assume you are right and let stop this one and for all. Everybody should boycott the products produced by child labor.
This is what happened a few years back in US when a law banning imports from countries employing underage worker was imposed (US did that when they found out that Wal-Mart is buying shirts from factories in Bangladesh that employ child workers)---the direct result, this factories stop employing child workers.
Yeah Utopia, no more child labor, the children live happily ever after?.or did they???

That answer is no, they are not, according to research conducted by Oxfam international (www.oxfam.org), these children did not go back to school (they cannot afford it in the first place because these countries are so poor and their family cannot afford it too, remember WE FORCE them out of job because we want to PROTECT them), they end up in even worst jobs, or on the streets and a significant number of them were FORCED into PROSTITUTION.

So what say you?? We helped them?? We stop the monster of globalization from menacing in these countries??? The vote is on your hand.

Globalization is unstoppable, and a Utopia is impossible, we just need to accept it and try to improve the condition under globalization but not to oppose it, because there is no way you can stop it, even you can, does this mean that you are helping the third world countries by doing so??

It is easier to point your finger towards globalization as the utter evil and the leaders in developed countries who are promoting globalization as the Satan because they are oppressing the third world countries than to think of a better way to solve the problem. So engineers, leaders, scientists, economists of the future, it is up to us to help these countries progress in the face of globalization (including our country off course) (but not stopping globalization, because of the simple economics policy, everybody wants profit, there no way you can stop globalization that can provide the manufacturer with a lower production cost and higher profit)!!

What eath said is correct, i totally agree!!!

[aquila]

i think you should probably categorize your topic to be "Economic globalization" because if you think about it, the spread of the internet, American culture, Hollywood movies, McDs, rise of UN, among other things, can also be attributed to what we'd call globalization.

i think a lot of the arguments posed by anti-globalizers is that globalization promotes a race to the bottom... a term which means that in order to attract foreign investors, 3rd world governments cheapen labor and deny workers and citizens of environmental rights and other labor rights.

thomas friedman, the NYT columnist is a popular free trade believer... if you want the other side of the story you should probably try searching up his columns or read his books... he has some theory which i can't remember...

neoliberals (globalization supporters) would argue that globalization provides a country with more jobs and boosts its economy... also contrary to popular belief, it would break down the economic hierarchies within a country... for eg, since MNCs come in to provide jobs to everyone, the old economic elite would no longer have a monopoly over trade and business... also. MNCs usually come from countries that respect human rights.. for eg, US consumers would avoid a sweatshop even if it operates abroad...

another strong argument posed by neo-liberals is that globalization would increase economic growth in a developing country since there is more FDI, and trade... with increasing economic growth, the people will be more educated and thus more aware of their rights... also, economic globalization encourages the exchange of ideas across countries.. so say the ppl in country A has never been exposed to the concept of democracy before will learn abt democracy when their country has dealings with a democractic nation like *ehem Malaysia. :P

also. a country that wants to do intl trade may want to clean up its human rights records so that it will impress foreign investors that it is a democratic nation with favorable political conditions for business

well, there's literature on research out there that actually proves that globalization is benefitting certain developing countries... try checking the UN HUman Development Report and the World Banks's World Development Report on Poverty... not the exact titltes of the books.. but you can google them pretty easily...

my prof, Dr Robert Keohane has the theory that economic globalization benefits low and high income countries... high income countries would go to low income countries to invest since low income countries also provide cheap labor and not many high skilled jobs are needed... middle income countries would lose out in the end... like Mexico (even with NAFTA)

good luck!

[misled_youth]

Some say that hiring child labor in the sweatshops (like GAP) is inhumane and is against human rights and bla bla?..

If it wasn't for those poor kids at a GAP sweatshop in Malaysia (yeap, I bought it from Reject shop at 1-U), I'd be freezing my ass off right now!

bloody 5 degree's out there!
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[__earth]

Some say that hiring child labor in the sweatshops (like GAP) is inhumane and is against human rights and bla bla?..

If it wasn't for those poor kids at a GAP sweatshop in Malaysia (yeap, I bought it from Reject shop at 1-U), I'd be freezing my ass off right now!

bloody 5 degree's out there!

there's child labor in Msia?

[windy_city]

Some say that hiring child labor in the sweatshops (like GAP) is inhumane and is against human rights and bla bla?..

If it wasn't for those poor kids at a GAP sweatshop in Malaysia (yeap, I bought it from Reject shop at 1-U), I'd be freezing my ass off right now!

bloody 5 degree's out there!

?????
I am totally confuse with what you say, can you explain??
Since when there are GAP factories with child labor in Malaysia(we are not the poor third world country!!!!)

[oxherd]

?????
I am totally confuse with what you say, can you explain??
Since when there are GAP factories with child labor in Malaysia(we are not the poor third world country!!!!)

I don't think there are GAP factories in Malaysia, although child labour used to be (still is ?) an issue in plantations (children would help their parents in tapping rubber). The bigger issue with Malaysia is that its supposed to be a trafficking point for children forced into prostitution or begging. Although I don't think that really is related to the perils of globalization.

http://www.globalmarch.org/worstformsreport/world/malaysia.html

[aquila]

Elensar's comment that "we are not a poor third world country" brings up some points of interest.

Although most of us fall into the category of middle class, some even upper class families, do you realize that we have a good number of extremely poor people? You don't see them because they are in remote villages or in those bad neighborhoods in cities where your mum and dad told you to avoid.

Do you know that Malaysia has one of the worst cases of economic disparity within the country? Meaning the richest 10% and the poorest 25% have enormous differences in incomes and lifestyles. We have multi-billionaires in KL, but there are also Orang Asli, and other aborigines in East Malaysia who are living on less than RM10 a day.

The sad thing is this issue is never addressed by leaders. They only present the good and nice image of Malaysia. Most progressive developing country in the world so we're told. I think more work has got to be done to lift those people in abject poverty out. I do admit that many middle income families were once in the poorest percentile too and they have risen above their circumstances. The challenge now is to figure out how to make that progress more accessible to the majority of Malaysians.

[misled_youth]

Deii thamby/thambichik,

GAP, Nike, DKNY, Reebok, CK et al. semua takde "factory" kat asia. Diorang semua buat kontrak ngan Tauke x2 kat Indo, Vietname, Thailand.

Sweater yg ku beli ni memang dibuat di Malaysia (dah tulis kat label). Dulu ku duduk kat cheap apartment di USJ, banyak olang keja kat kilang semua budak-budak budahan, eg. 16-17 pompuan dari Indo ;) [Couldn't court any... too tired everyday I come home from work].

Kalo bukan panggil "sweatshop" ngan guna "child labour", what would you call it?

Kalo mau tau lebih, pegi hang punya library dan pinjam video/dvd arahan John Pilger yang bertajuk "New Rulers of the World".
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[windy_city]

Deii thamby/thambichik,

GAP, Nike, DKNY, Reebok, CK et al. semua takde "factory" kat asia. Diorang semua buat kontrak ngan Tauke x2 kat Indo, Vietname, Thailand.

Sweater yg ku beli ni memang dibuat di Malaysia (dah tulis kat label). Dulu ku duduk kat cheap apartment di USJ, banyak olang keja kat kilang semua budak-budak budahan, eg. 16-17 pompuan dari Indo ;) [Couldn't court any... too tired everyday I come home from work].

Kalo bukan panggil "sweatshop" ngan guna "child labour", what would you call it?

Kalo mau tau lebih, pegi hang punya library dan pinjam video/dvd arahan John Pilger yang bertajuk "New Rulers of the World".

The defination of the sweatshop and child labor I refered to is used in an economics context.
I think you misunderstood what sweatshop and child labor mean (especially when it is used in an economics context). The sweatshop that I mentioned refer to factories that make t-shirts, sweaters and etc using child labor and pay them extremely low wage. I do not think this is what happen in Malaysia, even the Indo gals will not work there if the pay is extremely low (for example less than 2 USD per day).

[misled_youth]

Ooo... hang ni guna kontext economics manyak terra lah? U ni ingat layman tak fasih Paul Krugman ataupun Jomo? aiseyman... pandai ISLM model tak menjamin perut kenyang.

Ku ni guna layman kontext. Cam olang putih kata, "Stop and smell the roses". Down to earth skit lah beb.
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[windy_city]

I am just explaining what child labor and sweatshop mean in the article I posted and think that maybe you have misunderstood my meaning.

I did not mention that you do not understand who is Paul Krugman or Jomo or sth like that.
But if you think that I am ?terra" because I explain what I said and that will not ?menjamin perut kenyang? or whatever accusations you make, I cannot do anything

Since you are so "terra" using your layman context, congratulation, maybe one day you can make more people understand economics and win some price, but please be more courteous in your posting, there is no need to make some blind accusation.

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
--- Dale Carnegie

[misled_youth]

"Who's the more foolish . . . the fool or the fool who follows him?" -- Obi-Wan Kenobi

Listen to the quote here: http://www.users.kih.net/~sarabeth/fool.wav
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[__earth]

this thread is supposed to suppose to help that star trek guy with his paper.

its not a place to throw mud at each other or brag how knows ISLM, mundell, CAPM or whatever model there is in econ.

especially misled_youth, please refrain from calling out names. and your tamby greet sounds a little bit offensive. and to both of you, that "foolish" quotes are unnecessary. please, im sure all of us are matured human beings.

[misled_youth]

True...

Moral of the story: Don't smoke pot that is proudly-grown-in-your-back-yard, while on ReCom.

its not a place to throw mud at each other or brag how knows ISLM, mundell, CAPM or whatever model there is in econ.

Berlagak betul!

"I wanna get high... soooo high..." - Cypress Hill
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