Water on Mars - What can we do about it .

[masterof_none]

Recently, more and more evidence come from the rover Spirit and Opportunity that suggest the existence of water on Mars.

Researchers at JPL and everywhere are getting excited with this development. More people are interested in this Mars thing.

Water in Mars suggests that there are creatures on Mars. In other words, those rovers could probably bump into Martians!.

I'm waiting for that moment. I want to wake up and read the news, and seeing the face of the Martian (maybe with 'ugly' face that we see in X-Files?).because, I still believe that Spirit and Opportunity might just drop somewhere in a desert where no one's there
(like, Spirit is in Sahara, Opportunity is in Arizona).

But let's assume that Spirit and Opportunity bump into Martians,
and let say, you're the geobiologist, what are you gonna do ?
if you're politicians, what would you say to the people?.
if you're a professor or teacher, what are you gonna tell the students?
(except , of course, "Martians?, Hey, that's cool" ).

Here's today;s news (and got some cool pictures that looks like 'mud' on Mars)
http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1750101.html

[masterof_none]

Recently, more and more evidence come from the rover Spirit and Opportunity that suggest the existence of water on Mars.

Researchers at JPL and everywhere are getting excited with this development. More people are interested in this Mars thing.

Water in Mars suggests that there are creatures on Mars. In other words, those rovers could probably bump into Martians!.

I'm waiting for that moment. I want to wake up and read the news, and seeing the face of the Martian (maybe with 'ugly' face that we see in X-Files?).because, I still believe that Spirit and Opportunity might just drop somewhere in a desert where no one's there
(like, Spirit is in Sahara, Opportunity is in Arizona).

But let's assume that Spirit and Opportunity bump into Martians,
and let say, you're the geobiologist, what are you gonna do ?
if you're politicians, what would you say to the people?.
if you're a professor or teacher, what are you gonna tell the students?
(except , of course, "Martians?, Hey, that's cool" ).

Here's today;s news (and got some cool pictures that looks like 'mud' on Mars)
http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1750101.html

[__earth]

Actually, the evidence from the rovers suggest that there was water on Mars. There's no water right now.

[__earth]

Actually, the evidence from the rovers suggest that there was water on Mars. There's no water right now.

[Thirdshifter]

if there's a creature on Mars it'll mean The Quran, Bible and torah is all false. Can't wait?

[Thirdshifter]

if there's a creature on Mars it'll mean The Quran, Bible and torah is all false. Can't wait?

[wwhong]

if they happend to bump into martian, most likely the public reaction will be panic since they will worry will the alien come and invade the earth as portrayed in many movies? so if i am a politician, i dun think there's a need to announce the martian presence to the public as it will caused anxious and panic after a short while of excitement. Moreover, why make people worry about the creature so far away? just let the people carry on their life peacefully.

but if i am a scientist, there's definitely a need to let people know that we are not the only creature in this universe and think is there a way we can communicate with them and encourage interaction between 2 sides? of course not all people can accept that...

anyway, what's so big deal finding some water on Mars? thinking of migrating there? why dun we shift more attentions and resources on Earth and figure out ways to protect the environment so that human can continually living happily on it? why dun we use the enormous amount of money to provide aid to the starving and suffering people first before stepping into the space? i am not denying the advantages brought by space exploring like technology development but i think we should shift our priority on solving the problem on Earth first rather than finding out the presence of water on the planet which is billion miles away. yeah, theres' water. so what, u gonna bring it back and drink?

[wwhong]

if they happend to bump into martian, most likely the public reaction will be panic since they will worry will the alien come and invade the earth as portrayed in many movies? so if i am a politician, i dun think there's a need to announce the martian presence to the public as it will caused anxious and panic after a short while of excitement. Moreover, why make people worry about the creature so far away? just let the people carry on their life peacefully.

but if i am a scientist, there's definitely a need to let people know that we are not the only creature in this universe and think is there a way we can communicate with them and encourage interaction between 2 sides? of course not all people can accept that...

anyway, what's so big deal finding some water on Mars? thinking of migrating there? why dun we shift more attentions and resources on Earth and figure out ways to protect the environment so that human can continually living happily on it? why dun we use the enormous amount of money to provide aid to the starving and suffering people first before stepping into the space? i am not denying the advantages brought by space exploring like technology development but i think we should shift our priority on solving the problem on Earth first rather than finding out the presence of water on the planet which is billion miles away. yeah, theres' water. so what, u gonna bring it back and drink?

[topdog]

i like mars better than snickers. oh, wait...wrong mars...

[topdog]

i like mars better than snickers. oh, wait...wrong mars...

[Thirdshifter]

I have this fantasy of a great under-the ground Civilazation in Mars.

[Thirdshifter]

I have this fantasy of a great under-the ground Civilazation in Mars.

[topdog]

i would like a show of hands here. (erm...master of none, if this digressing too much feel free to delete this post.)

how many here think there's life somewhere in the universe besides Earth?

i'll just say i won't be surprised if there is.

[topdog]

i would like a show of hands here. (erm...master of none, if this digressing too much feel free to delete this post.)

how many here think there's life somewhere in the universe besides Earth?

i'll just say i won't be surprised if there is.

[silverblue]

Hahaha... all I'll say is that my Dad is a very strong advocate that there is life in the universe.... he'll never give up trying to convince me about that each time I see him! lol

Anyway, what I am really curious and interested to know... is, if it was proven that there was or is life outside earth, how would this contradict, complement or impact the various major religions of the world?

I hope someone of any religious knowledge will comment about this...

[silverblue]

Hahaha... all I'll say is that my Dad is a very strong advocate that there is life in the universe.... he'll never give up trying to convince me about that each time I see him! lol

Anyway, what I am really curious and interested to know... is, if it was proven that there was or is life outside earth, how would this contradict, complement or impact the various major religions of the world?

I hope someone of any religious knowledge will comment about this...

[wwhong]

the universe is so huge and i won't be surprised at all if there's another life form on whatever name planet..just because we don't know doesn't mean it's not there...

[wwhong]

the universe is so huge and i won't be surprised at all if there's another life form on whatever name planet..just because we don't know doesn't mean it's not there...

[luke]

I *think* there is life somewhere in the universe beside us ... we might not have the concrete proof yet but something you can't prove its existence doesn't mean it doesn't exist right? ... perhaps we aren't capable of proving it yet?

and I don't think discovery of life forms from outer space discredits holy revelations ... in fact there are many hints in the Books that we are not alone in the universe ..

here:
http://www.ummah.com/ifsa/pages/section3/astronomy/astro3c.htm
http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/mysteries/ufobible.html

[luke]

I *think* there is life somewhere in the universe beside us ... we might not have the concrete proof yet but something you can't prove its existence doesn't mean it doesn't exist right? ... perhaps we aren't capable of proving it yet?

and I don't think discovery of life forms from outer space discredits holy revelations ... in fact there are many hints in the Books that we are not alone in the universe ..

here:
http://www.ummah.com/ifsa/pages/section3/astronomy/astro3c.htm
http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/mysteries/ufobible.html

[__earth]

anyway, what's so big deal finding some water on Mars? thinking of migrating there? why dun we shift more attentions and resources on Earth and figure out ways to protect the environment so that human can continually living happily on it?

It's important for knowledge advancement. Also, it would prove that Earth is not unique.

Plus, the money spent on space program is barely 1% of the US' total GDP. The total spent on Mars mission is even less than that 1%. Shifting the resources spent on Mars to earthly issues hardly affects anything.

[__earth]

anyway, what's so big deal finding some water on Mars? thinking of migrating there? why dun we shift more attentions and resources on Earth and figure out ways to protect the environment so that human can continually living happily on it?

It's important for knowledge advancement. Also, it would prove that Earth is not unique.

Plus, the money spent on space program is barely 1% of the US' total GDP. The total spent on Mars mission is even less than that 1%. Shifting the resources spent on Mars to earthly issues hardly affects anything.

[littlebigone]

US GDP is about 10 000 billion rite? 1% is 100 billion. That's a lot of money if you ask me.

[littlebigone]

US GDP is about 10 000 billion rite? 1% is 100 billion. That's a lot of money if you ask me.

[Thirdshifter]

This is where the money went for the fiscal year of 2003:

Social Security Administration__________________$508 billion
Department of Health and Human Services_________$505 billion
Department of Defense-Military__________________$389 billion
Interest on Treasury debt securities (gross)____$318 billion
Department of Agriculture________________________$72 billion
Department of Labor______________________________$69 billion
Department of Education__________________________$57 billion
Department of Veterans Affairs___________________$57 billion
Office of Personnel______________________________$54 billion
Department of Transportation_____________________$50 billion

More info here: http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0903.pdf
Monthly reports here: http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/backissues.html

currently US is in a $7 trillion debt.

[Thirdshifter]

This is where the money went for the fiscal year of 2003:

Social Security Administration__________________$508 billion
Department of Health and Human Services_________$505 billion
Department of Defense-Military__________________$389 billion
Interest on Treasury debt securities (gross)____$318 billion
Department of Agriculture________________________$72 billion
Department of Labor______________________________$69 billion
Department of Education__________________________$57 billion
Department of Veterans Affairs___________________$57 billion
Office of Personnel______________________________$54 billion
Department of Transportation_____________________$50 billion

More info here: http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts0903.pdf
Monthly reports here: http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/backissues.html

currently US is in a $7 trillion debt.

[Thirdshifter]

US GDP is about 10 000 billion rite? 1% is 100 billion. That's a lot of money if you ask me.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp

[Thirdshifter]

US GDP is about 10 000 billion rite? 1% is 100 billion. That's a lot of money if you ask me.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp

[__earth]

US GDP is about 10 000 billion rite? 1% is 100 billion. That's a lot of money if you ask me.

well, how about GDP per capita?

[__earth]

US GDP is about 10 000 billion rite? 1% is 100 billion. That's a lot of money if you ask me.

well, how about GDP per capita?

[masterof_none]

anyway, what's so big deal finding some water on Mars? thinking of migrating there? why dun we shift more attentions and resources on Earth and figure out ways to protect the environment so that human can continually living happily on it?

It's important for knowledge advancement. Also, it would prove that Earth is not unique.

Plus, the money spent on space program is barely 1% of the US' total GDP. The total spent on Mars mission is even less than that 1%. Shifting the resources spent on Mars to earthly issues hardly affects anything.

I second __earth's opinion that the space program would lead to greater advancement in science and technology.

But, this thing is not new.

Man has been exploring the outer space for thousands of years.
We're just fascinated by the fact that we're just in one of the gazillion planets in the Milky way.
People in the past developed astrology (which I read with passion for the past couple of months here... debating ranging from the definition to the purpose of the astrology , till the creation of the SIG).
to predict their future.

According to my reading, Astrology works based on the idea that environment can change your behavior ...

ANyway, the Mars exploration is just part of our curiosity, or , the extension of our forefathers' curiosity about the outer space.

fast forward to 1957....

The whole space thing come from Russia. remember when Sputnik was launched in 1957. and soon, the US (JFK as a president) responded by sending Neil Armstrong and friends to Moon.

Therefore, besides exploring water on Mars to satisfy our curiosity, the space race now becomes politics (that's why I ask anyone who want put themselves in politicians' shoes).
Whoever found/create something great on the outer space, that country would be seen as a superior country.

Wait...., they haven't found anything yet. But, some of the pictures
suggest that there exist water on Mars.

The reason why they spend the taxpayers' money to the space program, in my opinion, is not all useless...

Somehow, ppl would still want to explore the outer space...
If not the US, someone else would... maybe Malaysia's NeXT?

(did u guys read the news that govt. promote space prog by asking kids to design the prototype using water bottles? that, I think, is a good start...)

[masterof_none]

anyway, what's so big deal finding some water on Mars? thinking of migrating there? why dun we shift more attentions and resources on Earth and figure out ways to protect the environment so that human can continually living happily on it?

It's important for knowledge advancement. Also, it would prove that Earth is not unique.

Plus, the money spent on space program is barely 1% of the US' total GDP. The total spent on Mars mission is even less than that 1%. Shifting the resources spent on Mars to earthly issues hardly affects anything.

I second __earth's opinion that the space program would lead to greater advancement in science and technology.

But, this thing is not new.

Man has been exploring the outer space for thousands of years.
We're just fascinated by the fact that we're just in one of the gazillion planets in the Milky way.
People in the past developed astrology (which I read with passion for the past couple of months here... debating ranging from the definition to the purpose of the astrology , till the creation of the SIG).
to predict their future.

According to my reading, Astrology works based on the idea that environment can change your behavior ...

ANyway, the Mars exploration is just part of our curiosity, or , the extension of our forefathers' curiosity about the outer space.

fast forward to 1957....

The whole space thing come from Russia. remember when Sputnik was launched in 1957. and soon, the US (JFK as a president) responded by sending Neil Armstrong and friends to Moon.

Therefore, besides exploring water on Mars to satisfy our curiosity, the space race now becomes politics (that's why I ask anyone who want put themselves in politicians' shoes).
Whoever found/create something great on the outer space, that country would be seen as a superior country.

Wait...., they haven't found anything yet. But, some of the pictures
suggest that there exist water on Mars.

The reason why they spend the taxpayers' money to the space program, in my opinion, is not all useless...

Somehow, ppl would still want to explore the outer space...
If not the US, someone else would... maybe Malaysia's NeXT?

(did u guys read the news that govt. promote space prog by asking kids to design the prototype using water bottles? that, I think, is a good start...)

[Thirdshifter]

saying no to space exploring is like being those people in europe who told world explorer that earth is flat and there's nothing to be found somewhere.

[Thirdshifter]

saying no to space exploring is like being those people in europe who told world explorer that earth is flat and there's nothing to be found somewhere.

[wawa]

There is a real possible chance that someday people can actually live in Mars (after about 100 years of labour to make it habitable---I wonder who's going to pay).
Also Mars has a lot of metal which can be used too.
So, for US, its sorta kind of investment, I think. IF they use 100 billion, and manage to make Mars habitable, I suppose they would claim to have the right to these metals in addition to having more land :!:

Just my 2 cents. :D

[wawa]

There is a real possible chance that someday people can actually live in Mars (after about 100 years of labour to make it habitable---I wonder who's going to pay).
Also Mars has a lot of metal which can be used too.
So, for US, its sorta kind of investment, I think. IF they use 100 billion, and manage to make Mars habitable, I suppose they would claim to have the right to these metals in addition to having more land :!:

Just my 2 cents. :D

[hungwei]

mars is indeed the next frontier for mankind, but changing the condition of mars to match our own planet will not be something feasible-in the short term. Lots of resources will be involved before we could finally reap the reward. Moreover, recent freakish accidents such as the Columbia disaster only served to delay further space exploration. Not until at least 100 yrs has past, space exploration will still involved tremendous cost+risk.

[hungwei]

mars is indeed the next frontier for mankind, but changing the condition of mars to match our own planet will not be something feasible-in the short term. Lots of resources will be involved before we could finally reap the reward. Moreover, recent freakish accidents such as the Columbia disaster only served to delay further space exploration. Not until at least 100 yrs has past, space exploration will still involved tremendous cost+risk.

[wwhong]

i m not saying space exploration shouldn't be encouraged but I was saying maybe they should shift the priority to the problems on the Earth first and then only thinking of going out to space. yeah, the reality is no one wants to lose the space competition to other country especially after China joined the elite club of space exploration.

1% of course looks small but $100b would save a lots of people from starving and improve their living condition. don't you think we should care more about the people on the planet that we are living rather than water on the planet that is at the other end of the world?

of course just my 2 cents. ideal is never gonna be achieved in real world anyway. again, i m not against space exploration but i think the priority there should be shifted.

[wwhong]

i m not saying space exploration shouldn't be encouraged but I was saying maybe they should shift the priority to the problems on the Earth first and then only thinking of going out to space. yeah, the reality is no one wants to lose the space competition to other country especially after China joined the elite club of space exploration.

1% of course looks small but $100b would save a lots of people from starving and improve their living condition. don't you think we should care more about the people on the planet that we are living rather than water on the planet that is at the other end of the world?

of course just my 2 cents. ideal is never gonna be achieved in real world anyway. again, i m not against space exploration but i think the priority there should be shifted.

[__earth]

Look. that 1% is not entirely for mars mission or even for NASA. It's for everything related to space like maintaining hubble, for NSF, for research grants to various universities, for Aceribo, for internat'l ss. In fact, this was NASA budget in 2001:

In 2001, NASA's budget was $14.2 billion. The White House requested $15.2 billion for NASA in the current fiscal year, but final approval from Congress is pending.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-01-14-congress-moon_x.htm
Mars' mission is only a fraction of NASA's budget.

Compare that to Iraq War cost, the budget for Mars mission looks like a drawf. Why dont you look at war budget rather than Mars mission budget?

Further, if you say the US needs to prioritize, why don't we shift all the fund from research and put it into social program and aid? sounds good?

I think not. After all, like what Thirdshifter said, do we want to think that the Earth is flat?

[__earth]

Look. that 1% is not entirely for mars mission or even for NASA. It's for everything related to space like maintaining hubble, for NSF, for research grants to various universities, for Aceribo, for internat'l ss. In fact, this was NASA budget in 2001:

In 2001, NASA's budget was $14.2 billion. The White House requested $15.2 billion for NASA in the current fiscal year, but final approval from Congress is pending.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-01-14-congress-moon_x.htm
Mars' mission is only a fraction of NASA's budget.

Compare that to Iraq War cost, the budget for Mars mission looks like a drawf. Why dont you look at war budget rather than Mars mission budget?

Further, if you say the US needs to prioritize, why don't we shift all the fund from research and put it into social program and aid? sounds good?

I think not. After all, like what Thirdshifter said, do we want to think that the Earth is flat?

[Thirdshifter]

Also i assume your a Malaysian why even care? Tengok cermin dulu?

Putrajaya? Cyberjaya? Bukit Jalil? KL f1. Erm do i need to go on?

All goverments find a cause to spend money. Be it useful or not the money would be gone regardless.

[Thirdshifter]

Also i assume your a Malaysian why even care? Tengok cermin dulu?

Putrajaya? Cyberjaya? Bukit Jalil? KL f1. Erm do i need to go on?

All goverments find a cause to spend money. Be it useful or not the money would be gone regardless.

[silverblue]

http://today.14850.com/0302marswater.html

" Squyres says scientists have been unable to speculate so far on how long ago water covered the area, even whether it was thousands or millions of years ago, but in response to a reporter's question asking whether it could have been as recently as a century ago, he smiled and said, "I don't think so." "

Finding water on Mars doesn't even mean anything yet. All they may discover now is whether the planet could have once been suitable for life. And that's even after finding out how long ago the water actually existed. Then only can they begin to find out if it's probably for life to exist there in the future. Looks like a process that will take several more decades... ;)

[silverblue]

http://today.14850.com/0302marswater.html

" Squyres says scientists have been unable to speculate so far on how long ago water covered the area, even whether it was thousands or millions of years ago, but in response to a reporter's question asking whether it could have been as recently as a century ago, he smiled and said, "I don't think so." "

Finding water on Mars doesn't even mean anything yet. All they may discover now is whether the planet could have once been suitable for life. And that's even after finding out how long ago the water actually existed. Then only can they begin to find out if it's probably for life to exist there in the future. Looks like a process that will take several more decades... ;)

[masterof_none]

http://today.14850.com/0302marswater.html
Finding water on Mars doesn't even mean anything yet. All they may discover now is whether the planet could have once been suitable for life. And that's even after finding out how long ago the water actually existed. Then only can they begin to find out if it's probably for life to exist there in the future. Looks like a process that will take several more decades... ;)

NASA today claims to actually 'found' water on Mars
check this out:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2004-03-23-nasagamble_x.htm
and let the race begin.

So, if water exist, then , human might be able to live on mars.
Like someone pointed out previously, it may be a good investment for the US or any other country to venture into exploring Mars, they may set some new facilites out there and reap some financial gains.
(as they did with space exploration for the rich ..like Dennis tito)

But, what;s important here is, are the future generations may one day live on Mars ? The answer, I believe, is yes.

[oshmelvin]

Could there be water on mars? Or has the water on mars dried up and all that's left is ancient markings left by water in the past? I believe that water did exist on the surface of Mars a long time ago. Recently, the opportunity rover has detected water markings in the meridiani planum crater, which was believed to be a sea bed in the past. Also, to add on to the evidence that water once existed on the surface of mars, the opportunity rover has detected sulphate salt which could only be deposited in the crater in layers if water existed on mars. The rover also took the opportunity to study the rocks on mars and it found indentations in the rock outcrop which was once a possible crystal formation which dissolved away during the change in the water composition. With all the evidence provided by the mars exploration rover project which costed NASA 2/3rd of it's funds (820 million dollars), it's safe to say that Mars had water on it's surface in the past. I believe that there could be a possiblity of water existing under the martian surface in the present. An arial spectrometer has detected hydrogen atoms under the martian surface (according to the article in the national geography magazine) which rises the possiblity of water running underground. If water does exist, there is a big possibility that life exists on Mars too (water is the essential ingredient of life). However, the presence of water or water-ice under the martian surface could only be determined by future explorations which NASA is currently planning (NASA is planning to send the MSL - Mars science laboratory in 2009 which carries all the necessary equipments for detection and testing). MSL is going to be more expensive than the mars rovers and is expected to be a billion dollar project. If life does exist on mars, I would say it would be in the form of microbes under the martian surface (well, life does exist in lake vostok - an underground lake in Antartica which has a dark and cold environment, completely sealed off from the outside world). I doubt that life could exist on the surface of mars because the atmosphere and the heat is unpleasant to life eventhough some life forms such as bacterias could withstand really high temperatures and acidic environments.

[ElansarGelmir]

I've lost about the latest news about Mars Polar Lander or whatsoever projects they have. NASA's projects have encountered several failures due to trivial faults like fake spiral signal transmitted which caused the explosion of MPL and so on. And a single space experiment would cost the US 12 bil. So, imagine how much the States have chucked its money into the space...

I dunno about wheter water has already been discovered in Mars, but there is ice up there. But so what? Even if there's water in Mars, we can't prove that there are still survivors there. After all, it will take a humongous generator just to produce enough oxygen to cover the area around it.

Yeah, i agree that our Earth is depriving of land and it's time to venture to other place for future habitation, but i still think Mars is unfeasible.

[oshmelvin]

I must say that early organisms don't survive on oxygen. Most bacterias that live in oxygen-deprived environment don't use oxygen to break down their "food" to produce energy, ATP. Most of them make use of other chemicals such as Nitrogen or Sulphur to break up their "food". We call this the anaerobic respiration. Humans did inherit anaerobic respiration from their ancestors but only certain cells in the human body can perform anaerobic respiration for example the muscle cells which can break down glucose ("food") without any oxygen. This process is called glycolysis and produces lactate which then combines with a hydrogen ion to produce lactic acid. Anaerobic respiration produces less energy compared to aerobic respiration (because oxygen is a much better electron acceptor) Which brings us to the question how oxygen actually originated on earth. Most likely, it was produced by the early algaes or cyanobacteria (which has chorophyl) or plants that do not need oxygen to survive but produce oxygen as a by product (during the process of photosynthesis)

[ElansarGelmir]

Yeah, which means even if they managed to cultivate some non-consuming organisms on mars, it would be centuries before humankind can start breathing on Mars, unless you're trying to say that NASA will sponsor an oxygen tank each day?

[__earth]

Yeah, which means even if they managed to cultivate some non-consuming organisms on mars, it would be centuries before humankind can start breathing on Mars, unless you're trying to say that NASA will sponsor an oxygen tank each day?

it wouldnt take centuries. decades maybe. The future is closer than you think.