Medicine in Russia Today

[orange2388]

i am now doing my a-levels and going to finish this june and i am planing to apply for KSMU. how are things there?? has it change from the last few topics or its still the same??

another thing is i heard that i need to take physics for my 1st because i didn take physic for my a-levles.

and is this degree recornise by malaysia??
oh ya.. i really wish to contact people studying there.. anyone can help me?? thanks..

[evening_go_jogging]

hi, what's the full name of KSMU?
does it offer scholarships?

[orange2388]

KSMU is kursk state medical university. i am not sure weather its offering and scholarships a not.. but i think there is loans

[anbu]

yea, its recognized. there are 5 Russian Universities currently recognized by the MMA. in no particular order, they are :

1. Kursk State Medical
2. Moscow Medical Academy
3. RSMU
4. NNSMA
5. Volgograd State Medical

from wht i heard from my friends, KSMU has the most number of Malaysian Students..

[thp]

:D I am successful in posting my message.

Yes, I also heard that KSMU has the most Malaysian students. It seems that students coming back from KSMU have positive comments on the university. I think it can be an appropriate place to go for Medicine. The fees itself is not very expensive but the service charge and the air ticket can come up to quite a large sum of money. The summer vacation is 2 months. Students have to come back as the university is closed down.

I am interested in going there and I would like the seniors to tell us some information about the study there.

[NV1989]

hi, what's the full name of KSMU?


Kursk State Medical University

[NV1989]

:D I am successful in posting my message.

Yes, I also heard that KSMU has the most Malaysian students. It seems that students coming back from KSMU have positive comments on the university. I think it can be an appropriate place to go for Medicine. The fees itself is not very expensive but the service charge and the air ticket can come up to quite a large sum of money. The summer vacation is 2 months. Students have to come back as the university is closed down.

I am interested in going there and I would like the seniors to tell us some information about the study there.

Do think A person that is studying there, will tell u that it's not good there? Then later you might look down on them. Well... Think bout tat.

[NV1989]

yea, its recognized. there are 5 Russian Universities currently recognized by the MMA. in no particular order, they are :

1. Kursk State Medical
2. Moscow Medical Academy
3. RSMU
4. NNSMA
5. Volgograd State Medical

from wht i heard from my friends, KSMU has the most number of Malaysian Students..

I think you should review the latest University order.

There's name for Moscow Medical Academy(MMA) - M1
Which means in the whole order of medical uni in Russia, MMA is the 1st. Please post facts and not rumours in Recom. Here is a place where we should get true and accurate news and info! NOT RUMOURS!

Ranking in Russia & Name of Uni:
15) I.M. Sechenov Moscow Medical Academy
(MMA)

135) Volgogradskij Gosudarstvennyj Medicinskij Universitet-
Volgograd State Medical University (VSMU)

139) Nizhny Novgorod State Medical Academy
(NNSMA)

193) Kurskij Gosudarstvennyj Medicinskij Universitet
Kursk State Medical University(KSMU)

But for RSMU-M2, i couldn't find. Sorry. These ranking is by internet popularity. For further info-http://www.4icu.org/ru/

For the actual one, i'll post it when i'm free to do so which will be after my exams. Have a great time.

[NV1989]

i am now doing my a-levels and going to finish this june and i am planing to apply for KSMU. how are things there?? has it change from the last few topics or its still the same??

another thing is i heard that i need to take physics for my 1st because i didn take physic for my a-levles.

and is this degree recornise by malaysia??
oh ya.. i really wish to contact people studying there.. anyone can help me?? thanks..

I'm currently studying medicine in Russia.

I think you shouldn't apply for KSMU, maybe you've made up your mind to go there because you heard some agents said that Tun Dr.Mahathir's niece and nephew are there. Well, I strongly recommend that you reconsider and go for the top medical uni in Russia. Kursk has a really bad reputation. Anyway, the last decision is up to you.

You need to have Physics, Maths, Chemistry, Bio (science subs) for your pre-U to enter 1st year. Or else, you might have to take Pre-Medical course here.

If you need more information, Please contact me at ngvalynne@<hidden> - My e-mail address, and msn address.

All the best for your future.

[hansley]

I'm considering of going to Volgograd University, as a freshman.. any suggestions or preparations regarding russia?

[Leen]

I'm considering of going to Volgograd University, as a freshman.. any suggestions or preparations regarding russia?

I think you should learn Russian for starters. Other preparations just include getting appropriate clothing. As far as the studies is concerned, I don't think there is a huge step you need to take from SPM to uni courses. Scholars who go to INTEC only prepare for 3 months studying Russian language and get sent to Russia straight after that. They are doing fine, so I don't think you need any special intense preparation for Russia.

[shreya]

im currently under JPA for russian programme in intec. do i have to do preparatory course in russia for 1 year or just enter medicine straight ?

[music_freak28]

Intec's preparatory programme for Russia Medicine is only 3 months. Just a brush up of your three sciences. More focus is placed on the Russian language. The real pre-u only starts in Russia. Which is why Russian Medicine programmes under JPA is 6 years, compared to other countries which are 5 years because the first year is considered as pre-medical.

[Young]

Sorry if this sounds offensive but for obvious reasons, I have this impression that Russian med schools are dodgy. Sure it's cheap and all but do think about the quality of education you will receive.
Given a choice, I'd much rather study in a local private med school instead of Russia. The costs are almost the same, you get better education, your balls don't freeze till they drop off, it's safer, t's closer to home and there's mamak stalls around. Think about it. :)
Again, sorry if this is offensive. Again, it's just my personal opinion.

[youngyew]

Ouch. Young be careful here, would you mind to elaborate why you have the impression?

[Young]

Well for one thing, the entry requirements are very low; I know of people with a C average in A-levels paying their way into Russian med schools.

Also, I don't think Russian universities have any admission procedures like interviews to determine if the candidate is suitable for medicine. They just.. well, take people in by the bulk.

And, if you flip through the Malaysian papers, you will notice many advertisements on Russian medical education. It gives the impression that they're trying very hard to lure students as if the school is desperate. Good institutions just don't do that.

All the above, coupled with horror stories we hear about bribing professors and appalling standards just flash DODGY, in my opinion.

And oh, Singapore doesn't recognise a single Russian medical school. That speaks volumes about their reputation.

As always, there are exceptions to everything. I realise that the points I mentioned above are merely superficial and that many excellent students do seek medical education in Russia. Do not get me wrong, I am not generalizing. I just think that the money better spent studying in local med schools as they are specifically tailored to suit our domestic health needs.

[RestlessMind]

2 Of my cousins r currently studyng in MMA.. they went there in 2004 n self-sponsored. only bout 1 yr there, they applied for mara loans n they wr successful..
their spm reslts wr just above average, bout 6As (including A1 n A2) yet they wr accptd to do medcne there...

[Young]

When gov't scholarships are mismanagedWeasley | May 26, 09 4:24pm

I am a medical student from Russia as well. Best part is, I or rather we, did not choose to come here. We are all scholars sent here by either JPA or MARA.

If you were to Google "Moscow Medical Academy" it is ranked by UNESCO as the second best medical university in the world. Do not be fooled by this because I was one who was fooled as well. Only after I landed in Moscow did I know that the "2nd best in the world" is specifically granted to the Russian medium of this medical school.

We, Malaysians, are doing the English medium and I must say it's an utter shame that the government actually spent millions of tax payers money to send us all here to study medicine. The teaching facilities or methods of the English medium here is way below par, way below that of a third world country even. Some classrooms here even resemble the ones we have in our ‘kampungs' in rural areas such as those in Sabah and Sarawak (thank you so much for sending us here all the way to Moscow to experience this!).

For your information, this so-called Moscow Medical Academy does not even have a campus to begin with. Classes are scattered all over Moscow. We students are forced to travel everyday via Metro, or by foot, or bus to attend classes. Also, there are times when we would have travelled so far to attend classes, and upon arrival at school, only to be told that classed are cancelled.

The Malaysian government could have spent the money more wisely to educate us in Malaysia, Singapore or India. We get paid almost USD700 per month, which I believe is a huge amount of taxpayers money. However, I doubt we will bring back much knowledge to be able to help the patients back home.

While there are some of us who save and spend the money wisely due to the high cost of living here, there are a huge majority of private and sponsored students who come here just to enjoy. Frequent parties, weekend getaways, world tours, and shopping sprees are common among students here.

The lifestyle of many Malaysians change tremendously once they came here. They behave even worse than the "Mat Sallehs" here. Malaysian girls here, for instance, would walk around ever so skimpily leaving nothing to the imagination (even during winter!).

Whatever happened to the Malaysian culture? Many here have even lost their virginity at the tender age of 18 or 19 simply because a guy or girl can walk in ever so easily into the rooms of the opposite sex. Many Malaysian medical students behave as though they have no self dignity. However, they potray the best behaviour once they land in Malaysia as though they are the best Malaysian angels. Sadly, we all know their true colours when they are here in Moscow. Hypocrites!

These Malaysians are surely to be huge dissapointments to their families as well to the nation. Exams and studies are the least priority for the many who are here. I wonder why did some people choose to study medicine in the very first place.

Let me also give u an insight of the education system here. You want to know why the majority of Russian grads are so incompetent and useless? Well, first and foremost, we can get away with cheating ever so easily during exams. You may ask how.

Many students here aren't bothered about being honest for themselves. Many just merely do the bare minimum of studying and copied their friend's answers or directly from the books during the exams. These students fail to realise that they are only cheating themselves. The one who helps with the cheating is also going to lose out in the end once he/she is out of medic school and into the work world.

Another method which works really well for the girls is simply to shed some crocodile tears during exams and instantly the lecturer would grant her a mere pass. How is this fair to students like me who slog day and night, mugging and studying extremely hard with the simple intention of graduating as a competent doctor?

After all, these cheaters would be graduating with a MD certificate and would turn out to be the bad apples in the healthcare system in Malaysia. Thus, leading senior doctors to generalise and say that all Russian grads are incompetent. Does anyone have any idea how frustrating this is?

Many students who sit for exams earlier would simply snap a photo of the different sets of questions and answers to be distributed to the rest of the students who have yet to sit for their exams.

How is this helping anyone? Can you even call this an exam? Does it fit the definition of an exam? So, can you imagine what kind of doctors we're producing here? A bunch of cheaters, liars, and irresponsible future doctors!

No wonder countries like the UK refuse to accept Russian medical grads for their postgraduate courses. Simply because we have never even sat for a proper exam per say throughout our six years of study here.

Look at the UK universities/colleges. Do they even allow any student of theirs to bring in PDAs, camera handphones, bags, and books into the exam venue? Do they allow any exam candidate to communicate with another candidate once the question paper has been distributed? Do students know the exact questions and answers prior to the exams? Hell no! These only happen in Russia.

So, wake up people.

To those of you who are planning to send your offsprings to Russia for a medical degree, please, I'm begging you, think again. You're not only going to lose your money, but also perhaps the good name and dignity of your family.

This is merely an opinion of mine and not directed to insult, degrade or humiliate anyone. I believe there is nothing wrong in sharing my opinion.


This article came up on Malaysiakini recently. Thought it might be of interest to anyone who is considering Russia as an option.

[henry_yew]

It is a shame that this should be true. It is very disheartening indeed if lots of taxpayers', or parents' money should be wasted on education that brings no positive outcome whatsoever.

Notwithstanding that, JPA and MARA still sends scholars to Russia to pursue medicine courses? Have they actually seen for themselves the conditions of these medical universities or colleges?

It is no wonder that the National Accreditation Board has removed its recognition from quite a number of medical universities in the former Soviet Union.

To students who aspire to become future doctors, even if JPA or MARA gives you a scholarship, you should really think about the possibility of being sent to Russia or Ukraine to do your MBBS or MD there and whether you really want to study there.

I know that many would just go because it is the subject that they like. However, don't forget that eventually you'll be dealing with people's lives, not with just mere corpses where you get the opportunity to dissect them at your pleasure. While still studying in university, you are still pretty much shielded from the reality that people's lives are in your hands. One small slip and you might end up being a killer yourselves!

If you choose medicine just because it gives you better income than other professions, you might as well give it up. Personally, I wouldn't trust a doctor who aspires to become a doctor simply because it is a profitable profession. I would trust a doctor who is constantly worried about making mistakes when treating patients far better.

Likewise, I wouldn't trust a civil engineer who thinks about only profits to build my structures.

However, if you are genuinely interested in doing medicine, then go for it. If you are afraid of doing medicine because you are afraid of costing people's lives by making mistakes, then it is more the reason to go for it! You would have already understood the real risk of being doctors, and you understand the value of life. As such, you would ensure everything in your power that nothing would go wrong during treatment of your patients. In that light, you might end up saving more lives!

[eve88]

If you have a choice as to which med school you're going to (in Russia or otherwise), it pays to do your research.

Find out what the course (teaching) is like, what position does it hold in the rankings, which countries recognizes it etc. And try if possible to talk to students of that med school and get a picture.

The other half of it is being mature enough to realize that when you graduate, you're actually going to have to make decisions based on what you've learnt in med school. So even if the teaching is crap where you're at, you still have an obligation to learn all you can.

After all, you may only get one shot at treating that patient.

[supergoh]

Sometimes,I am really frustrated with this brainless MALAYsian government.It always likes to do something stupid and then take the trouble to solve the self created problem.

Some medical degrees like China medical degrees from top universities deserve our recognition,but Malaysian Medical Council just will not recognize them.It is ridiculous and funny that even medical degree from the University of Tokyo is not recognized,but other Japanese medical schools can be recognized.

The council recognizes questionable Russian and Indonesia universities which are just to make a fast buck out of naive Malaysians which are crazy for a Dr title in front of their names.As a consequence,Malaysians including the medical students have to suffer just because of the stupidity of this government.

For those who really want to get a quality medical education,I suggest that all of you check the list of recognized medical degrees from SMC website http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html

It does not matter whether MMC recognizes the degrees stated in SMC website if you want to practise in Singapore and other countries.

Unlike Russian,Indonesian and Manipal medical degrees,a decent medical school does not need to advertize on the newspapers like the Star every day.A decent medical school will also have a very strict entry requirement.

[Young]

Sometimes,I am really frustrated with this brainless MALAYsian government.It always likes to do something stupid and then take the trouble to solve the self created problem.

Some medical degrees like China medical degrees from top universities deserve our recognition,but Malaysian Medical Council just will not recognize them.It is ridiculous and funny that even medical degree from the University of Tokyo is not recognized,but other Japanese medical schools can be recognized.

The council recognizes questionable Russian and Indonesia universities which are just to make a fast buck out of naive Malaysians which are crazy for a Dr title in front of their names.As a consequence,Malaysians including the medical students have to suffer just because of the stupidity of this government.

For those who really want to get a quality medical education,I suggest that all of you check the list of recognized medical degrees from SMC website http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709442948.html

It does not matter whether MMC recognizes the degrees stated in SMC website if you want to practise in Singapore and other countries.

Unlike Russian,Indonesian and Manipal medical degrees,a decent medical school does not need to advertize on the newspapers like the Star every day.A decent medical school will also have a very strict entry requirement.

Yep, that's true. If you're concerned about the quality of med schools, the best place to look would be SMC. They recognise half the number of med schools compared to their Malaysian counterparts.

As a general rule of thumb, avoid dodgy countries. Your money is much better spent on a local degree. Remember, foreign degrees aren't always better than local degrees.

[henry_yew]

True, if you want a foreign degree, go for reputable ones, not any Tom, Dick and Harry sort of university that promises so-called high quality medical education. Don't be easily beguiled by universities located in Timbuctoo.

You're far better off doing your degree in UM or UKM if you have to choose between doubtful foreign universities and local ones.

[hansley]

contradicting. previously lotsa scholarship holders are sent to Russia right ?

[luminodreamer89]

I have come across a letter written by a person who claims himself is a JPA scholar, currently taking up medicine in Russia. I bet everyone will be stunned by the stupidity of Malaysia government, after reading it.

Here's the link. http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/105132

[henry_yew]

I have come across a letter written by a person who claims himself is a JPA scholar, currently taking up medicine in Russia. I bet everyone will be stunned by the stupidity of Malaysia government, after reading it.

Here's the link. http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/105132

Young has already provided us with the article here: http://www.recom.org/forum/showpost.php?p=249515&postcount=18

LOL

[youngyew]

Young quoted the whole article in the last page of this thread. Thanks for the link anyway. :)

[luminodreamer89]

oops...sorry...=(...but welcome anyway...=)

[youngyew]

Anyway I have just read that malaysiakini article for the first time and I have a few thoughts about it. It's disheartening to hear the horrible condition of the English medium medical school, though he didn't elaborate on whether the teaching staff have been as bad as the physical infrastructure. As for the exams, it's indeed outrageous. It's simply unacceptable that this is allowed to happen, especially for a profession as critical as medicine.

On the other hand, however, I don't think his spiels about "skimpy clothing" and "girls turn wild" are that specific about Moscow or Russian medical schools. It's a known fact that the Western societies have a different yardstick of what is acceptable social interaction and what is not, and it's obvious that when Malaysians go overseas some people will inevitably embrace the lifestyle and the moral yardstick. This happens to a lot of places, be it Russia, US, UK, Australia, you name it. But that doesn't mean that everyone will turn promiscuous or engage in irresponsible casual sex once they go overseas.

[henry_yew]

Anyway I have just read that malaysiakini article for the first time and I have a few thoughts about it. It's disheartening to hear the horrible condition of the English medium medical school, though he didn't elaborate on whether the teaching staff have been as bad as the physical infrastructure. As for the exams, it's indeed outraging. It's simply unacceptable that this is allowed to happen, especially for a profession as critical as medicine.

On the other hand, however, I don't think his spiels about "skimpy clothing" and "girls turn wild" are that specific about Moscow or Russian medical schools. It's a known fact that the Western societies have a different yardstick of what is acceptable social interaction and what is not, and it's obvious that when Malaysians go overseas some people will inevitably embrace the lifestyle and the moral yardstick. This happens to a lot of places, be it Russia, US, UK, Australia, you name it. But that doesn't mean that everyone will turn promiscuous or engage in irresponsible casual sex once they go overseas.

That's true. It's what we call culture shock. It happens when students go to an unfamiliar place with different cultures and backgrounds, and they find it difficult to adapt. After all, one man's meat is another man's poison. One man's custom is another man's shock. If I may add, one man's religion is another man's cult.

But just because those cultures do not suit us does not necessarily mean that they are negative or bad. Then again, this is not the place to argue about morality and ethics.

If the JPA and MARA are really concerned about this issue, they should really check out to see whether the claims are true or otherwise. We don't want an influx of doctors from Russia who are incompetent and not in the know of what they should do in the event of emergency.

[luminodreamer89]

I concur with your statement, youngyew. A course as critical as medicine, the students should take it with full responsibility and not just fool around like nobody's business. They have to bear in mind that, getting a scholarship for medicine course is not easy, and many well-deserved students are deprived of that opportunity. If they can't even manage their own studies well, and do not uphold moral ethics in dealing with their own examinations, how can we expect them to carry the huge expectation of saving people's lives on their shoulders?

And, for the medical institution mentioned, I suspect that there might be some political agendas behind the scene. We can see that JPA refuses to sponsor stdudents to LSE in the Ivy League Universities Scholarship, but they actually let this happen? The government does not recognise the UEC, but institution with such standard is in the list of overseas universities?

While for the outfit, it's up to personal moral standard and quite subjective to be discussed.

[youngyew]

And, for the medical institution mentioned, I doubt that there might be some political agendas behind the scene. We can see that JPA refuses to sponsor stdudents to LSE in the Ivy League Universities Scholarship, but they actually let this happen? The government does not recognise the UEC, but institution with such standard is in the list of overseas universities?
Sorry for a digression, just wanted to correct the word usage: I think you mean you suspect rather than doubt. When you say you doubt that [some statement / allegation], it actually means you don't quite believe in that statement / allegation. And I suspect you don't mean that. :)

[luminodreamer89]

thanks for the correction. Post edited. Mind at 2am was kind of dizzy. =)

[supergoh]

Dun blame the students.They are just victims who are naive enough to trust the government.Their outfits would not affect their studies.

If we sent najib to study medicine in Russia,he would just run to Mongolia to enjoy himself.

We should blame this irresponsible government who is still very willing to give the students scholarship to study medicine in Russia.

Maybe Malaysians are the majority of foreign medical student in Russia,which is the laughing stock of the world.

[Young]

Sometimes, it's not all the government's doing. Many people without JPA scholarships are heading to Russia for med education as well because it is cheap and locally recognised.
I highly recommend anyone who's looking at Russia as an option to take some time out and think again. Yes, prestige is a superficial factor and you might overlook the lack of prestige associated with Russian universities. However, we must admit that prestige is somewhat correlated to quality and in a field as hands-on as medicine, the quality of our education may well be the difference between a patient going out through the front end of the hospital and a patient going out through the back end, wrapped in a black bag.

[Miracle_seed]

This is not really relevant to this thread, as I read it on other thread, but I guess I would get a better reply here. Reading on the twinning course for medicine in JPA thread, reminds me about the actual quality of these twinning course.

For example, PMC and MMMC students will do their 2.5 years pre-clinical studies in India and Ireland respectively, and return to continue their clinical part in Malaysia. My question is, how good actually are these twinning courses, since the clinical is done in Malaysia? I'm not saying clinical training in Malaysia is not good, but if these colleges do not have their own teaching hospitals, like UM, UKM and USM, how well can they actually utilise the associated hospitals for clinical training, since these are private colleges, and I'm afraid they couldn't use it as efficient as other public universities without their own hospital, but with associated government hospitals, since they are still under government.

What is actually good about overseas medical education, which part, pre-clinical or clinical training is considered better? Perhaps MMMC has an advantage being in India, because of the plenty-of-cadavers story. What about pre-clinical in Ireland? What's the advantage since Ireland is more famous of its specialist courses?

[youngyew]

I am not sure whether anyone has posted this, but the following are a series of posts by a Sarawakian doctor posting about his extreme dissatisfaction against the product of Russian and Ukrainian medical schools:

Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/03/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and.html)
Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure II: The Reign of Chaos (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/03/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and_24.html)
Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure III: The Insiders’ Revelation (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/03/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and_27.html)
Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure IV: Pak Abu Dies (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/04/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and.html)

His posts are controversial and I don't agree fully with him especially the way he generalises and exaggerates things. However, if his stories are true, then it should ring an alarm bell in our society. We cannot afford to let incompetent doctors roam around our hospitals.

[supergoh]

It seems that PMC graduates can practise in Ireland but MMMC graduates cannot practise in India.Correct me if necessary.

Actually,the Sarawakian doctor also feel dissatisfied with local university ,in addition to Russian and Ukraine universities.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/37706

To increase doctor to population ratio,the government not longer cares much about the quality of medical education,be it overseas or local.

[henry_yew]

Ukraine, as far as I remember, hit the limelight in the media a few years back when some well-known medical universities there are no longer recognised by our country. Apparently they were dissatisfied with the medical education standards and the facilities that were provided. It caused a ruckus because with the revoking of the recognition, many Malaysian students who were studying there then suddenly got themselves into a situation where they graduate as a doctor but will not be able to practise here.

Be careful... You don't want to end up stranded like that.

[senksiang90]

My sister was under JPA's first batch sent to Russia. now she is doing her housemanship in Sarawak General Hospital. Her comments? Russian and Malaysian system are totally different. She find it hard to cope at most times and feel that local graduates seem to be much more efficient and better than those who graduated from Russia.

[Young]

I am not sure whether anyone has posted this, but the following are a series of posts by a Sarawakian doctor posting about his extreme dissatisfaction against the product of Russian and Ukrainian medical schools:

Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/03/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and.html)
Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure II: The Reign of Chaos (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/03/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and_24.html)
Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure III: The Insiders? Revelation (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/03/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and_27.html)
Ukrainian CPR, Russian Life Support and the Boris Yeltsin Classification of Heart Failure IV: Pak Abu Dies (http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2009/04/ukrainian-cpr-russian-life-support-and.html)

His posts are controversial and I don't agree fully with him especially the way he generalises and exaggerates things. However, if his stories are true, then it should ring an alarm bell in our society. We cannot afford to let incompetent doctors roam around our hospitals.

Thanks for the links. Have read through all the posts but will (for now) take in everything with a pinch of salt. I'm pretty sure not all Russian grads are totally incompetent; I know of STPM 4.0 scorers who went to Russia because they were rejected by local universities.

However, one thing puzzles me: Why is JPA sending students to Russia when they can use the scholarship money to improve the local medical education scene? It just doesn't make sense.. What is there to gain from Russia that we simply cannot accomplish domestically? Is it the vodka..? :notrust

[supergoh]

To senksiang90,

Your sister learnt English or Russian medium medicine in Russia?

Actually,the quality of local medical graduates are not better than those Russian medical graduates.But local graduates have the advantage of undergoing clinical years in their own country.

Local graduates would also find it hard to cope in Russia hospitals if they really went to Russia to practise.

[senksiang90]

English medium. Yeah.. she kinda mentioned Russian medium seems to be harder..

[supergoh]

Although Russian medium seems to be harder ,I believe it is of much better quality and much cheaper.

I have a friend studying medicine in Russia too.

It seems that many professors there cannot speak good English,let alone teach medicine in English.

[youngyew]

Ukraine, as far as I remember, hit the limelight in the media a few years back when some well-known medical universities there are no longer recognised by our country. Apparently they were dissatisfied with the medical education standards and the facilities that were provided. It caused a ruckus because with the revoking of the recognition, many Malaysian students who were studying there then suddenly got themselves into a situation where they graduate as a doctor but will not be able to practise here.

Be careful... You don't want to end up stranded like that.
It's CSMU.

[Neutral_pH]

Thanks for the links. Have read through all the posts but will (for now) take in everything with a pinch of salt. I'm pretty sure not all Russian grads are totally incompetent; I know of STPM 4.0 scorers who went to Russia because they were rejected by local universities.

However, one thing puzzles me: Why is JPA sending students to Russia when they can use the scholarship money to improve the local medical education scene? It just doesn't make sense.. What is there to gain from Russia that we simply cannot accomplish domestically? Is it the vodka..? :notrust

My guess is that the government has some sort of deal when they decided to buy Russian weapons. Probably they believed that Russians being good at building machines to take people lives are also good at saving lives. Part of the offset package I suppose.....

As you said, it would be good if they improve the local medical scene or if they're sending guys overseas, send them to some reputable countries. We should send more people to Russia to learn how to build airplanes and missiles, but not medicine. Russians don't really respect human lives..just see how many people have they sent to the gulags.

[khookaywai]

Hey Ukraine is waay better than russia.
I am a better doctor than graduates from local universities.
Even my bosses can see that.
What matters is not grades is the determination.
Ppl who were from arts stream also made great doctors here in malaysia.

[alter_ego]

a doctor told me, medic students graduated from russia face a lot of difficulties during the housemenship as the learning system and even medical jargon are really different from our country, she did'nt encourage me to choose russia to get my MBBS.

any opinion?

[supergoh]

i doctor told me, medic students graduated from russia face a lot of difficulties during the housemenship as the learning system and even medical jargon are really different from our country, she did'nt encourage me to choose russia to get my MMBS.

any opinion?

We have discussed the risks and disadvantages of studying medicine in Russia.Please see them in previous replies of this thread.

Think carefully.

[AnnieChan]

so, will there still be a high risk that the government will revoke the universities currently still recognised for medicine ? i have a cousin currently in his final year doing medicine in ukraine.. the thing is, his university is no longer recognised.. what happens if he decides to return to Malaysia. will he still be accepted or will it go to waste?

[supergoh]

so, will there still be a high risk that the government will revoke the universities currently still recognised for medicine ? i have a cousin currently in his final year doing medicine in ukraine.. the thing is, his university is no longer recognised.. what happens if he decides to return to Malaysia. will he still be accepted or will it go to waste?

Of course, there is a risk that Malaysia government can revoke the recognition of overseas medical universities,especially those universities from developing countries.

For subsequent questions, you had better ask Ministry of Health officials.

[AnnieChan]

hahaha.. thanks though !

[tehjiao]

Strongly suggest those who are interested to study Medicine oversea esp Ukraine/Russia/Indonesia/India and those new local private college like AI**T and etc, ask around among the doctors in service and the graduates from respective uni/college, before u make your decision. Otherwise, u end up wasting your money and time become a lousy doctor. Good luck.

[arissa1992]

i was attending a russian pre- medical course too..
the duration is around 8 months so that u will be able to get into medical sch after merely 8 months.
which means, for spm leavers like me, u ll get into uni when ure 18 !!
however i doubted the quality of education of both the pre med course and russian medicine and left the course.
i hope others will weigh the pros n cons before deciding on which med sch to spend 5-7 years in.
make sure u will graduate as a well-prepared and confident doctor.
time is not a major factor, and neither is money..it's the quality of education which counts.

[alter_ego]

what made u doubt about the russian medicine?

[arissa1992]

what made u doubt about the russian medicine?

1. the entry requirement is really low..as in C's will suffice unlike in other medical schools.
2. none of the russian medical schools are recognised by the singaporean government despite their long history.
3. Russian university rankings are low and this makes me doubt the quality of education.( some ppl dun believe in the rankings, but for me i think i deserve better.)
4. Bribery over the past few years.. and considering the costly agent fees it's like paying ur way thru.
5. ur options are limited after graduating ( country to work in, country for postgraduate studies)

** personal views

[beederbest]

Strongly suggest those who are interested to study Medicine oversea esp Ukraine/Russia/Indonesia/India and those new local private college like AI**T and etc, ask around among the doctors in service and the graduates from respective uni/college, before u make your decision. Otherwise, u end up wasting your money and time become a lousy doctor. Good luck.

FYI~ AIMST university has recently got recognition by WHO for their courses. by the way I'm not AIMST student but i read this somewhere in the news not long ago. I'm from USM and is there anyone here who knows where to check whether which medical school is recognised by WHO?

[Leen]

Hi people.

If I may drop a line or two.
My brother graduated from Russia with a medical degree not too long ago under JPA scholarship. Right now, he's back in Malaysia doing his 10-year bond with JPA. He commented that even with 6 years education, he is still having difficulty in the hospital because of procedure difference and other misc. things that he never learned. He further said that it would be best to just study locally if the intention is to serve locally. This is because the practicals will be directly useful and all the things that need to be learned to serve in a local hospital get taught.

[cinematic93]

I think you should learn Russian for starters. Other preparations just include getting appropriate clothing. As far as the studies is concerned, I don't think there is a huge step you need to take from SPM to uni courses. Scholars who go to INTEC only prepare for 3 months studying Russian language and get sent to Russia straight after that. They are doing fine, so I don't think you need any special intense preparation for Russia.


If i am not mistaken, there are courses that are offered in english right? cause im planning to go to Volgograd too(the guy that u quoted) and i'm planning to take BDS... and one more thing, if i don't cheat in any of the exams there(no referring to any books or copying anybody), can i become a quality doctor after 5 yrs? and are the lecturers there good as in do they know what they are teaching? just wanted to know..

anyone who can answer are welcome to do so(especially people who are had studied there or currently studying there) Thanks yea..

[tehjiao]

FYI~ AIMST university has recently got recognition by WHO for their courses. by the way I'm not AIMST student but i read this somewhere in the news not long ago. I'm from USM and is there anyone here who knows where to check whether which medical school is recognised by WHO?

Well, i am not sure about WHO recognition, however i strongly believe that it's better for us to check up Singapore authority to find out which Med school they recognize before u pick up one (which really carry weight, unlike Malaysia). And sadly even Singapore not yet recognize USM graduate which i'm not sure why (but i do know that some local uni med schools have different passing mark for different group of students which may contribute to this condition,and it's a open secret, just like NEP)

Well, I do encounter HOs from Russia/Ukraine/AIMST recently, for Russia/Ukraine grads, the quality is ridiculously substandard. For AIMST, it's not as good as local Uni and private uni like IMU and PMC grads, however they really SHINE when they stand besides Russia/Ukraine/indonesia grads. I strongly believe that if we put all these fresh HOs to sit for Entrance Exam just like what they need to like last time, 99% will not make it. May not be their fault, but the knowledge/skill which is required to be function as a doctor in local hospital, well, just lacking.

Keep our fingers crossed. I foresee that our health care system will be in big trouble, really soon.

[chinwenjie]

1. the entry requirement is really low..as in C's will suffice unlike in other medical schools.
2. none of the russian medical schools are recognised by the singaporean government despite their long history.
3. Russian university rankings are low and this makes me doubt the quality of education.( some ppl dun believe in the rankings, but for me i think i deserve better.)
4. Bribery over the past few years.. and considering the costly agent fees it's like paying ur way thru.
5. ur options are limited after graduating ( country to work in, country for postgraduate studies)

** personal views

I agree. That's why i am so scared that JPA will offer me Russia...