Marital rape - is it a crime?

[claypot]

Hey guys,
I would like to know different opinion from you all about this matter.

"Is Marital rape is considered as crime or it is an obligation for the wife to fulfill the husband sex desire?"

[Fourthshifter]

isn't it obvious?

it is like asking whether child
molesting, power abusing or robbing is a crime or not a crime

[capablanca]

Hehe, how can you determine whether it is a marital rape or not. In the end, it is all up to the wife herself.

[youngyew]

I am not sure how validity could be established in such claims. But marital rape is equally traumatizing for the victims.

[JetLee0510]

IT IS IT IS!!!

simply because u ended the word "marital" with "rape"

[youngyew]

Not exactly. Just imagine that you don't feel like doing it but your husband forced you into receiving him - it's painful, traumatizing and not fun at all.

[JetLee0510]

Not exactly. Just imagine that you don't feel like doing it but your husband forced you into receiving him - it's painful, traumatizing and not fun at all. so u mean it is crime ?

[youngyew]

It is. But the severity might vary between cases, as with many other types of crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_rape

[JetLee0510]

It is. But the severity might vary between cases, as with many other types of crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spousal_rape y shd tat be ..? :evil:

[youngyew]

Did you read what I wrote above, and the content in the link I provided?

The certifcate of marriage doesn't mean that you give consent for your other half to do whatever they want to you in sexual relationship for your whole life. It's not a "sex permit". When you no longer wants to have sex or do not want to have sex for certain reasons, forcing you or penetrating you against your wish is a very traumatizing thing.

[JetLee0510]

Did you read what I wrote above, and the content in the link I provided?

The certifcate of marriage doesn't mean that you give consent for your other half to do whatever they want to you in sexual relationship for your whole life. It's not a "sex permit". When you no longer wants to have sex or do not want to have sex for certain reasons, forcing you or penetrating you against your wish is a very traumatizing thing.
St. Paul's teaching, "For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except perhaps by agreement for a set time, to devote yourselves to prayer"

some marital rape are crimes . ..

[youngyew]

I guess we first have to define the term before we argue on different grounds. Would you mind to tell me your definition of "marital rape"?

My definition is, forced sex against the will, and that which causes emotional and physical affliction to the victim.

Your quote is not always applicable in all contexts because it assumes that not allowing sex for your sexual partner is a deprivation, and that sex is a responsibility or obligation in a married couple. But it isn't.

[JetLee0510]

i think tat .
marital rape happens between two married couple, where usually the man try to have sex with the woman when she is not willing to do so.

[JetLee0510]

not allowing sex for your sexual partner is a deprivation, and that sex is a responsibility or obligation in a married couple. But it isn't. isnt it ? it might not stated in the law but it is not normal for married couples not having sex , isnt it ?

[youngyew]

I guess that's where we differ. The thing is, sex is not always fun. When two people are are married, it doesn't mean that sex is all about joy, fun and rigorous orgasms.

And it's not abnormal for married couple to not have sex, or at least not have sex for a certain duration. For example, when they are having arguments, facing stresses, feeling not well etc.

I am not sure about others, but if I were a married woman and if my husband shoves his sexual organ into me while I am all dry and depressed and pissed, I would be pretty pissed. What would you feel, if this happens to you?

[JetLee0510]

tat's y i said 'some'.. bcoz despite of those situations (depression, sadness, ..etc. ).. it is abnormal for couples to not having sex .. .oh oh

[gabrielle]

an article from aliran:

MARITAL RAPE: A VIOLENT ACT

From the experience with the DVA, we know that legislation alone will not make the problem disappear; however, it will send a very strong message to society that violence in the home (including the sexual abuse of a wife) is a crime and a public matter.

Prema Devaraj

Given the marked increase in violent crimes including sexual abuse and domestic violence, Suhakam (the Human Rights Commission of Malaysia) recently submitted a report to the Parliamentary Select Committee proposing amendments to the Penal Code and Criminal Procedure Code. Although not specifically mentioned as such, the issue of marital rape was subsequently highlighted in the press, stirring up a hornet?s nest. Religious intellectuals and others described Suhakam?s suggestions as going against Islam and ruining the marriage institution (Mingguan Malaysia, 21 Aug 2004). In response, Suhakam commissioner Prof Hamdan Adnan stood firm and defended Suhakam?s recommendations. ?Rape is violent and cruel and indeed should not happen between a husband and wife? (NST 24 Aug 2004).

The call for the recognition of marital rape is not new. The Anti-Rape Task Force representing Women?s Centre for Change, Sisters in Islam, Women?s Aid Organisation, All Women Action Society and Protect and Save the Children submitted a memorandum in September 2003 to the Attorney General?s chambers, the Ministry of Women and Family Development and members of Parliament which, among other things, called for marital rape to be recognized as an offence. Their frequent dealings with women who had been abused sexually by their husbands have spurred women?s groups to push for legislation against marital rape.

Discussions in the press show that there is some acknowledgement that sexual abuse of a wife by her husband does indeed occur; however, the phrase ?marital rape? and the suggestion that it should be made an offence under the Penal Code has evoked a strong negative response from some quarters. Some of the arguments used by individuals who oppose not only the criminalization of marital rape, but the concept itself, are discussed below.

1. The rights of a husband in a marriage

It is often believed that once a woman is married, she is her husband?s property and the marriage contract is an entitlement to sex. Sir Matthew Hale, Chief Justice in 17th Century England wrote:
? The husband cannot be guilty of rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual matrimonial consent and contract, the wife hath given herself in kind unto the husband which she cannot retract.?
Perak Mufti Dr Harussani Zakaria would seem to support this same thinking when he was recently quoted as saying that the act of a husband forcing his wife to have sex with him cannot be construed as rape and as a wrongdoing in Islam:
?A husband has the right to be intimate with his wife and the wife must obey. If the wife refuses, the rule of nusyus (recalcitrant) can be applied and the husband will no longer be responsible for his wife (23 Aug 2004, The Star).
Comment: There is a huge difference between having consensual sexual intercourse with a spouse and raping a spouse. Sexual intercourse between consenting spouses does not entail abuse, violence and force. Rape on the other hand occurs where consent is absent and often, coercion (both physical and mental) prevails. One must consider to what extent a spouse can claim conjugal rights. In terms of conjugal rights, while some may argue that sexual intercourse between husband and wife jima? is a religious duty and that the wife must submit, others have argued that the husband should perform jima? with adab (courtesy). All religions value human dignity and life. None of them condone the use of force or cruelty in a marriage; however narrow interpretations of religious texts have often been used to justify the oppression of women. This has to stop.

2. Existing laws and sufficient

Malaysian Syariah Lawyers Association deputy president Zainul Rijal Abu Bakar felt that existing laws were sufficient to tackle the issue. Religious Adviser to the Prime Minister Tan Sri Abdul Hamid Othman was reported as saying that Islamic Family laws already gave Muslim wives an appropriate remedy (NST 23Aug 2004). He said that a Muslim wife could turn to the Syariah Court if she is dissatisfied or treated with cruelty and demand a divorce.

Comment: There is no specific provision on marital rape in either the Islamic Family Law Enactments or the Penal Code. Although a woman may lodge a complaint of ill treatment against her husband in the Syariah Court, how likely would a complaint of ?forced sex with one?s husband? be interpreted as ill treatment or sufficient grounds for divorce? Furthermore, suggesting that a woman should demand a divorce implies that the offence is a merely a marital offence and not a criminal one.

As for the Penal Code, Section 375 states clearly, the circumstances that define rape. However if the act of sexual intercourse between a man and his wife falls under any of these circumstances set out in S.375, the man is protected from being charged with raping his wife due to the exception clause in S.375. Women?s groups have called for the removal of this exception clause so that the marriage institution will no longer protect husbands who sexually abuse or rape their wives. One might argue that marital rape could come under the purview of the Domestic Violence Act (DVA) 1994 which also includes in the definitions of domestic violence ? (c) compelling the victim by force or threat to engage in any conduct or act, sexual or otherwise, from which the victim has a right to abstain?. The problem with the DVA is that in order to prosecute a person, it has to be a crime under one of the provisions of the Penal Code. Because marital rape is not recognized in the Penal code, forced sexual relations with a husband becomes an act from which a wife has no right to abstain. And so, there is no legal protection for women on this matter, be they Muslim or non-Muslim wives.

3. The relationship between a man and his wife is a family issue

Women, Family and Community Development Minister Datuk Seri Shahrizat Abdul Jalil reportedly said ? Marital rape is a family issue and as Muslims we have to look at the matter this, way, studying it from all aspects and not pointing fingers? (NST 24 Aug 2004). A letter in NST (6 Sept 2004) entitled ?Do not meddle with the family? suggests that ?some things are beyond legislation and best left to the conscience of man himself?.

Comment: When a person is assaulted or abused, it is no less a crime when the perpetrator is a family member. Violence within the family cannot be considered a family matter. The DVA is an example of a legislation that deals with violence/abuse in a domestic situation. Domestic violence (or child abuse for that matter) is no longer considered a private family issue. It is an act of violence that society does not tolerate. Marital rape should also be seen in the same light.

4. Legislation would lead to extra-marital affairs

A letter to the press (NST 25 Aug 2004) suggested, if wives have the right to say ?no? to their husbands, then the husbands would be ?faced with the dilemma of either committing marital rape or the matrimonial offence of adultery in seeking sexual release with another woman?.

Comment: Once again women are held responsible for men?s actions. Marital rape is often trivialized as an issue of a man wanting sex and the woman being difficult and forcing the poor sex-starved husband to compel his wife to have sex. Marital rape is not about sexual release. It is a violent act. It is to do with the abuse of power and the domination of a wife. It has been said that one marriage partner can make the other miserable, but can?t make the other unfaithful. Adultery is about choice and the adulterer must take full responsibility for his/her actions.

5. Marital rape is a Western idea

There are those who argue that marital rape is a western concept and designed to disrupt the family unit. Perak Mufti Datuk Seri Dr Harussani Zakaria was reported to have said that Suhakam?s proposal came about as a result of Western influences, adding that Western society felt guilty over the way its men had treated women in the past and that was why it strove to give women additional rights now (NST 23 Aug 2004).

Comment: It makes no difference what the origins of the phrase ?marital rape? are. The point is that this form of abuse occurs throughout the world irrespective of culture, religion or ethnic background. That we learn from and share our experiences with women from different parts of the world, does not negate the issue. It is also high time we stop blaming the West for everything we disagree with.

Resistance to recognizing marital rape (let alone criminalizing it) is not unexpected. Proponents of the DVA know only too well that it took them more than 10 years to get the Act passed. Recognition is just the first step towards accessing justice for marital rape victims. From the experience with the DVA, we know that legislation alone will not make the problem disappear; however it will send a very strong message to society that violence in the home (including the sexual abuse of a wife) is a crime and a public matter. It cannot be tolerated or condoned. In addition to legislation, greater public awareness on this issue and support systems for women in these circumstances are urgently needed.

As a signatory to the Convention of the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), albeit with some reservations, Malaysia is morally obliged to take appropriate measures to eliminate discrimination against women, whether Muslim or non Muslim. The existing legislation on rape discriminates against women who are raped by their husbands. They have no legal protection. An AFP article Asia divided over the issue of marital rape (NST, 28 Aug 2004) lists Australia, Japan, Taiwan, New Zealand, Philippines and South Korea in a growing list of Asian countries that recognize rape in a marriage. More recently, Indonesia has joined this list. Perhaps one day soon, Malaysia will have the courage to do the same.

[gabrielle]

in the UK, marital rape was established as a criminal offence in
R v R (1991). prior to that, the common law held that marital rape was not a criminal offence.

my take:-
to ASSUME that marital rape is not a crime, is to perceive that a wife is bound by marriage to fulfill her husband's lust,
that the rights between a woman and a wife, are lopsided after marriage,
to revert to retrospective social values of yesteryears where men were deemed to be superior to their female counterparts.

what is rape? it's the act of forcing one to have sex against their will, isn' it?
the most important human right of all is the right to a life, lived in DIGNITY, isn't?
it's a fundamental right not to be held in enforced labour/ slavery (in this case, sexual slavery), isn't?

and like youngyew said, marriage is not a license for a man to take away the absolute rights of his wife, isn't it?
(what marriage really is, is a union between two people who pledge to share their lives, protect and care for each other eternally)

sex is, without a doubt, an important component of marriage, but not its whole. and even being an important component does not mean that it can be forced out of a person against her will.

pass legislation to make marital rape a criminal offence NOW!

[claypot]

first of all we need to know what is the agreement of that instilled into the marriage between the husband and wife. There are opinions said that the it is the wife obligation to fulfill the husband sex desire. There fore there is no such thing as marital rape if this is the obligation of the wife..

[Shoblast]

first of all we need to know what is the agreement of that instilled into the marriage between the husband and wife. There are opinions said that the it is the wife obligation to fulfill the husband sex desire. There fore there is no such thing as marital rape if this is the obligation of the wife..

I was pretty sure that marriage did not entail sexual slavery as one of the conditions.

The expectation that a wife is supposed to open her legs on demand and go for a merry jing jing jing is just medieval.

Far as i remember, the wedding vows typically goes as "do you promise to stay by his/her side through trials and tribulations, blablabla, till death do you part", not "do you promise to stand by his bedside, through libido will your legs part" or whatever it is that has some people thinking that providing sex is an obligation of either spouse?

[forEVA]

when the 2 finds it fun doing it, then it's sex.

but when there is NO MORE fun, or only 1 party syok sendiri, it's not sex anymore, it called rape. n yes, it's a crime.

first of all we need to know what is the agreement of that instilled into the marriage between the husband and wife. There are opinions said that the it is the wife obligation to fulfill the husband sex desire. There fore there is no such thing as marital rape if this is the obligation of the wife..
my take on this: YUCK!!! since when?!?!!