should china reclaim taiwan?

[zAiTsEv]

have you ever wondered that china will reclaim taiwan one day? it has been 55 years since taiwan broke off from from china in the 1949 chinese revolution, when communists led by chairman mao claimed control of the mainland, forcing nationalists led by chiang kai shek to withdraw to taiwan. reclamation will put an end to the tensions between both coasts once and for all!!!!!

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Wow..hot topic this one. I think it's just a matter of time before Taiwan and the mainland are reunited. The question is: will it be through diplomacy or force? And what will the the US' response to it?

Personally though, I think reunification will not really benefit China in many ways. It's more of an ideological or egoistic thing, you know - like not having a democratic and therefore 'renegade' nation so close to the communist motherland.

[ElansarGelmir]

What will the impacts on Taiwan be if it is reunified with China? Albeit China allows democracy in Hong Kong, there's been some problems over Hong Kong's democracy these days, due to some China's policy ...

[DecentMerson]

problems in Hong Kong....

not really... no major problems so far...
just some minor problems... and the benefits that the 2 have gained so far (economically) outweigh the minor problem...

just like the words that TengXiaoPing said to the HongKongers b4 he died...

'Mah Jiu Pao, Moh Jiu Tiu'
(reads continue to bet on horse racing, continue to dance ''in cantonese'')

[DecentMerson]

i think that China should reclaim Taiwan....

becoz... I'm a pro china...

becoz... I dun like Chen Sui Bian.... and i think the drama that he acted is really childish.... and it is really fake... the projectile of the bullet is really virtually impossible... (that's another story... should we have another forum on this....)??

becoz i think Taiwan is causing a lot of trouble when the two are separated....

becoz... I'm just crapping over here.... dun take those points too seriously...

[ElansarGelmir]

becoz... I dun like Chen Sui Bian.... and i think the drama that he acted is really childish.... and it is really fake... the projectile of the bullet is really virtually impossible... (that's another story... should we have another forum on this....)??

This is another example when you know that you're bored

[ElansarGelmir]

Uhmm... sorry for my ignorance, but what has Hong Kong gained so far from the reunification? Will Taiwan share the same benefits as well?

[Thirdshifter]

Ii hope Taiwans effort to be part of United states of America will fall thru.

China = communism. If you think the media control, no oppurtunity etc is bad in Malaysia. Think about the poor people of china. people get executed for objecting goverments view. Screw that.

USA should invade and remove the chinese communist regime. I'll even join the army.

[sanghanuman]

I dont think that Taiwan will agree to reunite with China. So, reunification will not happen in near future, or maybe not at all, except by force.

China wants to claim back Taiwan using the same system that she uses with Hongkong, the "two systems, one nation" policy. (If including Taiwan would be three systems, one nation..)

Concerning incentives, I think that for Taiwan it would be to be under China long enough so as to gain back high positions in the reunited China. However, prosperity in Taiwan will attract more mainland Chinese to go there and settle down more easily.

I agree with USSDefiantNX74205 that for China, it is more of an ego thing, as well as for economic reasons. Chinese who lived particularly close to Taiwan would be showered by businesses that is just so prosperously increasing in Taiwan. At least the Fujian and Zhejiang province will be taken care of (in terms of standard of living).

[chenghau]

USA should invade and remove the chinese communist regime. I'll even join the army.

And this sounds democratic? :lol:

[wwhong]

USA should invade and remove the chinese communist regime. I'll even join the army.

And this sounds democratic? :lol:

i think that is called dictatorship.

[topdog]

So how long before China ditches communism for democracy? it's inevitable right? 60,70 years? what do you guys think?

[__earth]

Uhmm... sorry for my ignorance, but what has Hong Kong gained so far from the reunification? Will Taiwan share the same benefits as well?

HK gets it share of cheap human capital. If HK were to be one separated entity, HK could only survive with its head barely floating above the water.

The same thing applies to Taiwan. So far, Taiwan is losing business to China, like every other Southeast Asian nations. IMO, a reunification would improve Taiwan's competitiveness in the eyes of foreign investors.

In any case, I support reunification. It might as well act as a counter to Pax Americana.

So how long before China ditches communism for democracy? it's inevitable right? 60,70 years? what do you guys think?

Though on paper, China is a communist, however, China is slowly moving toward capitalism. Just look at Shanghai and Sezhuan (I don't remember the exact spelling). Plus, earlier, believe it or not, the China equivalance of the Parliament has just introduced a private property law.

If that doesn't convince anyone, just look how at China's tolerance for HK libertarian wannabes.

[Thirdshifter]

[quote=Thirdshifter]USA should invade and remove the chinese communist regime. I'll even join the army.

And this sounds democratic? :lol:

Sometimes you have to go down to your enemies level and hope they won't defeat you by experience.

[masterof_none]

According to the history (told by my Taiwanese friend), Taiwan were established by a bunch of Nationalists who lost the war.
So, the spirit of a Taiwanese, naturally, is that : "Hey!, we're not part of CHINA"(even though , Taiwan's name is actually Republic of China) That's what Taiwanese usually would say.

But, it's a historical thing. But deep inside Taiwanese heart, I think they do afraid of potential threat from China. So, far, Taiwan is protected by the US. But if the US lost interest in protecting Taiwan, then, that might be a different story.

[Thirdshifter]

So, far, Taiwan is protected by the US. But if the US lost interest in protecting Taiwan, then, that might be a different story.

Besides preserving democracy in Taiwan. What exactly is their 'interest'? Cheap Asus mobo and video cards?

Just like how US is protecting Israel from their autocratic neighbours, taiwan is as well from China.

[soul_out]

Do you guys ever think of the possibility of Taiwan will link up with Japan and US to form an alliance to fight against China?

And North Korean will ally with China.

[wwhong]

that's a good thought but i dun think that will ever happen.

for US, it has a bigger economic benefits coming from China. There is no benefit such as oil or natural gas by helping taiwan against china and if they happen to do so, it's gonna cost billion of dollars and the americans for sure won't support that. everything just boils down to $$ for uncle sam. If there's no oil in iraq, do u think they will bother to go "liberate" the Iraqis?

Japan maybe will take that as an excuse to build its military power for the name of defending freedom and democracy but anyhow I don't think they will take the risk to challenge China with nuclear weapon. anyhow, that's not a valid excuse to get their hand involve since this issue is being perceived by internal issue by most countries.

just my 2 cents.

[ElansarGelmir]

i think Taiwan will be better off without reunification. China will just harness every resources Taiwan has...

[USSDefiantNX74205]

So how long before China ditches communism for democracy? it's inevitable right? 60,70 years? what do you guys think?

One thing's for sure, communism will fail in China as well. Remember what happened to the USSR? The moment Mikhail Gorbachev decided to implement some capitalist policies in a communist system, the entire nation collapsed. The same will happen to China. They've already implemented a lot of capitalist policies. It's only a matter of time before the people realize that communism only stands in the way of trade and $$$ making opportunities...

As for Taiwan, the only reason they're better off than China is because they're a democratic country.

[sanghanuman]

There is no more communism in China. No more. They might call themselves a socialist country, but right now it is just in-name only. It is true that China hardly practice democracy, but that does not mean that China practices socialism either.

China was trying to build "a socialist country with chinese characteristics", meaning that they announce themselves as a socialist country but at the same time, they engage do business like a capitalist, totally not in line with the famous socialist doctrines.

Also, it is almost impossible to find a role model for any of the -isms (capitalism, socialism, etc), as the lines that divide one -ism from another are highly arbitrary.

[topdog]

There is no more communism in China. No more. They might call themselves a socialist country, but right now it is just in-name only. It is true that China hardly practice democracy, but that does not mean that China practices socialism either.

yeah, that's true. you could say communism in china died with mao zedong. since deng xiaoping, china has opened up, in almost every aspect except politics i guess. (note: i'm no china expert, but i like to give my opinion anyway. lol.)

[Thirdshifter]

yeah, that's true. you could say communism in china died with mao zedong. since deng xiaoping, china has opened up, in almost every aspect except politics i guess. (note: i'm no china expert, but i like to give my opinion anyway. lol.)

http://iso.hrichina.org/iso/
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html
http://www.fofg.org/news/news_category.php?cat_id=23
http://www.timesoftibet.com/artman/publish/article_1219.shtml
http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Abuses/China.asp
http://www.payvand.com/news/04/mar/1172.html

From child Labor, to Democrats detentions to executing Tibetians, Opressing religious groups, control of the internet, and few other things.

China is pretty much communist in all aspect except business.

China has developed this special relationship with American businesses.

They provide cheap labor. Many have the impression that China is developing rapidly and making great progress in term of modernizing the country and think the mind of the people are progressing as well. China is still merely nothing then a slave to the Corporate USA.

Maybe Communism would fall eventually, i hope it won't take another century.

[zAiTsEv]

china is not a slave to the u.s. please bear this in mind, thirdshifter. it is only a matter of time before china overtakes u.s. to become the world's strongest superpower. over the years, native english speakers have decreased while mandarin speakers are on the rise. the emergence of china as a world superpower is a good thing. we should not see this a threat because china has never invaded any of its neighboring countries during any of its previous three golden ages (han, tang, qing). we should see this as a golden opportunity 2 boost trade & cross-cultural relationship.

[ElansarGelmir]

But China had threatened to declare war on Taiwan once ....

[zAiTsEv]

taiwan was part of china. let me ask u a simple question. what's the purpose of the u.s. civil war?

[__earth]

we should not see this a threat because china has never invaded any of its neighboring countries during any of its previous three golden ages (han, tang, qing)

not that im against china but what about tibet and vietnam?

[ElansarGelmir]

But in this case, it has been for 55 years

[zAiTsEv]

mind u elansargelmir. china has been tryin 2 reclaim taiwan all these while but due to many internal problems & most importantly u.s. intervention, the act of relamation has 2 be delayed.

[__earth]

But in this case, it has been for 55 years

saying it was 55 years ago doesn't mean it didn't happen. and notice also, the guy is comparing today China with what China was roughly 1000 - 2000 years ago. Even then, China did invade and colonize Vietnam.

im not arguing anything. I'm simply correcting the fact.

[wwhong]

But in this case, it has been for 55 years

saying it was 55 years ago doesn't mean it didn't happen. and notice also, the guy is comparing today China with what China was roughly 1000 - 2000 years ago. Even then, China did invade and colonize Vietnam.

im not arguing anything. I'm simply correcting the fact.

i think other than the invasion of vietnam, china never actually did invade and colonize other country before especially ancient time. pardon me, but i dun remember reading any history of china invading other nation (correct me if i m wrong). keep in mind genghis kan is not a china ruler by that time. chinese culture never encourage to invade other nation. if yes, they would had invaded melaka and the area nearby by that time easily with their strong military at that time.

also, if like what thirdshifter said, china is just a slave to US by providing cheap labor, then does that mean m'sia at one point also is US slave?

anyway, let's get back to the topic shall we?

[__earth]

yes, who is talking about the mongols? and why are you disregarding vietnam?

regardless of what the culture says, the invasion did happen and the colonization lasted for several centuries until the vietnamese fought back.

all im trying to say is that his reasoning, comparing old china with modern china is ridiculous. in the modern world, china has proven to be same as any other power. tibet, vietnam, maybe the korean war, heck, even last year skirmishes with some countries near Spratly.

editted for grammEr

[el_empty]

hey i agree that comparing today's china to the early years is pushing it a little too far. but with the same retrospect, we cannot compare a hu jintao government with a mao govt. meaning, we cannot assume a possibility that china might invade taiwan because it had invaded other neighbors before ie. tibet etc during the revolutionary years.

if anything, china knows it cannot attack taiwan unless chenshuibian does something really stupid. and that's a HUGE unless. the political and military repercussions will ensure china goes to hell.

but what they're doing right now, like threatening war, military buildup, etc cannot be seen merely as an ultra-nationalist desire to reclaim a 'renegade' state. neither should it be perceived as an egotistical mine's-bigger-than-yours move. what taiwan's doing today undermines the political leadership of PRC china - it's just like aceh's fight for independence as a primer to indonesia's loss of cohesion among its states. meaning if taiwan gets its way, the immediate implication is that "china is weak." that's the last thing the politburo wants.

the other thing is that china has less of a problem with taiwan if taiwan identifies themselves as 'taiwan.' now the problem arises when nationalists in taiwan identify their country as 'china', or in this case, 'the real china'. moderates see it as 'chinese taipei'. either way, china PRC considers this as unacceptable, for 'there is only one china' - and it's the one who's in the UN, in the security council, who's in APEC, who's officially recognized by the 100 or so other nations (less than 20 recognize taiwan(?)... )