Actuarial Science

[CyberJaya]

(27 March 2008 ) youngyew: I have merged two "actuarial science" threads into one. Since everything is arranged in chronological order, and since the two threads' content are now in the same place, you might find it a bit confusing to follow the thread. Specifically, posts between 06-07-06 to 08-12-07 are from both threads. However, be assured that all the posts are still there.


What do you guys know about this course. I hear that it is much in demand in Msia? I guess you would need an Economics degree to get into this field. Please tell me more and share you thoughts and knowledge. Thank you :D

[DecentMerson]

hehe... nice topic...

to get more information of this, pls go to www.beanactuary.com

here, u can learn all about actuary...from what is actuary, to the jobs prospect, to the earning and to the professional exams...

err.. it is not a must for u to have an economics degree... but a double will be better... a minor in Econ is quite popular...

read up about actuary....and u might consider it as a future career...

hahaha... :roll: :D brainwashing....kakaka

when in trouble, go double....hahaha

[orestes]

Basically, the career development of an Actuary mainly depends on the amount of professional papers that person passes... in america, there are nine papers available...

course 1 - 4 : basic stuff that every hopeful actuaries should
course 5 : pass this and u will be a qualified actuary (macam dapat lesen) for which u will be a member of an actuarial society like the SOA (society of actuaries), CAS (casualty actuarial society) or AAA (american academy of actuaries) which is all located in america
course 6 - 7 : if u r in this range, then u would be considered to be an associate
course 8 - 9 : u become a fellow (kaya nak mampos)

as an undergraduate pursuing an actuarial science degree, u HAVE to like math, coz u will be doing it 24/7... paper 1 (or course 1) will test your knowledge on calculus 1 - 3, stats n probability... course 2 consists of questions related to microecons, macroecons, finance, and stuff like dat... course 5 is not really an exam, but i have no idea what the hell is it... course 6 - 7 has open ended questions (like essays)... and course 8 to 9 is more like seminars n what not... most undergraduates pass like 2 to 3 papers during their college years and will find little difficulty finding a job if they do so...

Also, most insurance companies will offer their actuaries paid study hours so that they can pass more exams... imagine this, getting paid to study! but as nice as it may sound, its definitely a drag...

Companies hiring Actuaries are:
1) Insurance firms
2) Investment banks (like Goldman Sachs)
3) Consulting firms
4) Governments (mainly deal on pensions)
5) Financial institutions (corporate banks)

Since the world economy is becoming more and more global, and since AFTA is gonna be at its full implementation on 2007, Actuaries will be a very "hot" job... It has never went below #5 in the top 100 best jobs in America list... but as great as it may sound, not everyone is cut out for it... im beginning to have doubts about it myself...

kewl websites on actuarial science:
http://www.beanactuary.com
http://www.soa.org
http://www.casact.org

[10-Joules]

do you need to take econs or accounts in SPM to apply for this course for JPA scholarship?
i heard ppl have been rejected bcoz no econs background

[john_doe_85]

Hmm... No lah... Econs is no major requirement for Act Science or Studies, not only for JPA, but also for university admissions. For the US, just give an impressive SAT and I think that will surfice. Check with the other JPA scholars though. As for UK and Aussie, they'll be looking purely at your Maths and Further Maths or Higher Maths or any other Maths course at the higher level. The optimum grade you should get is an A but I've seen some universities lowering their standards to a B.

Pre-warn you first. A LOT of people compete to get in to this course so if you are NOT under the JPA scholarship, be prepared to work hard. Once you are in, you MUST also work hard to stay in. The drop out rate is astounding. Something like 50% in the good institutions, as bad as 90% in others. Make sure you have an alternative if, touch wood, you don't make if past the first year. Normally, after the first year, you'll survive.

Also, getting an econs at the pre-u level is a mere advantage, and not a prerequisite because what you learn esp in the 1 1/2 to 2 years of A-levels, will be covered in Uni in about less than 2 months or so. :lol:

If you like maths and you can take the heat, then, this is a good career. If not, like the Ass. Dean of Uni of Newcastle told me, Maths is basically a field condemned to Education (paraphrased).

[KobeBryant]

hi

Is US the better country to study actuarial scuence rather than UK and australia ?

Why some private colleges in malaysia only offer actuarial science via ADP programme which means that we will transfer to US,

Why isn't any colleges collaborate with Australian uni like University of Macquarie to offer actuarial science ?

[orestes]

Basically, it makes more sense to study actuarial science in America just because it is more organized over here... theyre actuarial associations are more established and the exam centers range all over the country... however, getting an actuarial science degree from city university in london or herriott-watt in scotland is very impressive as well... personally, i dont like the way they do things in maquarie university in australia coz they have exemptions on the professional papers... seems to me like its a cheating way to get things done... but then again, its my own humble opinion so dun get all angry with me...

[john_doe_85]

Hmmm... I'm not too sure about the more organized part in America but for me I'm pro-UK and Aussie in this issue. The exemption comes because you actually study the first stage or part of the professional paper at the university level, so it isn't really cheating in that sense. I'm not familiar with the American modules for this program but on the general level, the American education system emphasizes a broad education while the UK and Aussie system emphasizes in specialization. Up to you where you want to do it. For me, I'm too used to the UK system so I might probably aim for UK or Aussie.

[orestes]

keyser soze vs john doe... muahahaha... kevin spacey vs kevin spacey...

[ElansarGelmir]

Why some private colleges in malaysia only offer actuarial science via ADP programme which means that we will transfer to US,

Uhmm... not all universities are recognized by JPA, or perhaps, the world, especially some universities in Aus. Thus, JPA has to be very careful in sending the students to Aus, in case of some cert forgery (this is true in some universities. Many self-funded students from Aus bought certificates rather than earning them).

For actuarial Science in UK, a friend of mine told me (dunno whether he's joking or not) it's too expensive for the government to sponsor us there. Quite make sense also as the exchange rate for Sterling pound is two times as much as USD. After all, i think JPA is trying to cut down the number of students going to UK, except for medic, pharmacies and dentistry (coz it's very hard to get into US's universities for medicine).

[DecentMerson]

Why some private colleges in malaysia only offer actuarial science via ADP programme which means that we will transfer to US,

Uhmm... not all universities are recognized by JPA, or perhaps, the world, especially some universities in Aus. Thus, JPA has to be very careful in sending the students to Aus, in case of some cert forgery (this is true in some universities. Many self-funded students from Aus bought certificates rather than earning them).

For actuarial Science in UK, a friend of mine told me (dunno whether he's joking or not) it's too expensive for the government to sponsor us there. Quite make sense also as the exchange rate for Sterling pound is two times as much as USD. After all, i think JPA is trying to cut down the number of students going to UK, except for medic, pharmacies and dentistry (coz it's very hard to get into US's universities for medicine).

actually, it is not cheap to send student to US too... it sum up to about the same amount to send a student to US or to UK for 4 years to get a degree...

although USDollar is cheaper as compared to Pound... the tuition fees are much more expensive...

er... the ADP programmes are widely offer here in private colleges because it is an alternatif route to get a degree with a cheaper price tag... not everybody can afford to send their children overseas for 4-5years...

and 1 mroe thing.... it is not very hard to get into US Uni for medicine... but it is just that, u can't get medicine as ur first degree.... u can only pursue it as ur 2nd or subsequent degree...

[windy_city]

and 1 mroe thing.... it is not very hard to get into US Uni for medicine... but it is just that, u can't get medicine as ur first degree.... u can only pursue it as ur 2nd or subsequent degree...

Try saying that to all the pre-med students here and see whether they will tear you into pieces or not!!!

:twisted:

[orestes]

although USDollar is cheaper as compared to Pound... the tuition fees are much more expensive...


dude... ur kidding rite?? do u know that american universities have the most stable tuition fees... do u also know that tuition fees for univesities in england are probably gonna triple in the next couple of years? besides, the ringgit is pegged to the dollar, and no matter what happens, the exchange rate is still gonna be 3.8... however, its almost 7 ringgit for a pound now...

[DecentMerson]

no joke... at the moment....

averagely, you need at least RM 700k for a student to complete a degree(4 years) at a Ivy league standard Uni in the States...

and / or about the same amount to complete a degree (4 years) in UK(reputable Uni)...

bcoz of the different charges for tuition fees... for instance... a year of tuition fees in Engineering in UK is 17000 pound..
Engineering in US is about 35000 dollars... this shows the US tuition fees is more expensive...
but since the cost of living is higher in UK, so it amounts to about the same... =)

of course u cannot compare the possible price tag of education or tell what will happen in the future rite...

[lilet]

If I am not wrong, this year's JPA only offer Actuarial Science in UK. That's why I didn't choose it though I was tempted to cause I didn't want to take the risk of trying out for a highly popular country without straight A1's. Since now the situation has changed and straight A1's are not given the traditional special privileges anymore, I am considering changing my choice. But of course, i will have to clarify this with the officers at my upcoming interview to make sure I don't make a mistake! :D

About advantages and such... Do the interviewers look at your choice and compare them with the subjects you took during SPM and how you did for certain subjects, I mean, as in do they put a substantial amount of emphasis on that? From what I gather, Econs and Accounts background is not a prerequisite to get JPA_Actuarial Science but if a person does have those two subjects and s/he scored A1's for both, does s/he stand a higher chance of getting the offer compared to other "very-pure" science students? And also, does it help having done some studies in the Accounting/Statistics field like LCCI Third Level or something like that? :?:

[jagganatha]

wah finally some good talk about actuary.. thanks orestes or rafik( sorry is that how i spell your name) for the info. really needed that.. anyway Actuarial Science is the way to go. You don need an econ background but as mentioned by Decent Merson a minor is definately a popular option.. :wink: :wink:

[KobeBryant]

Lilet : If I am not wrong, this year's JPA only offer actuarial science in UK



hi , lilet
just to tell you the only choice of country is the US !!!
ermmm....lilet....r u singaporean ?
how come singaporean can apply for malaysian JPA scholarship ??

[lilet]

US ah?? Sorry, become blur already... :oops: I just remember that it is a high risk country that I am not willing to try out for... :D

ermmm....lilet....r u singaporean ?
how come singaporean can apply for malaysian JPA scholarship ??

Sorry if I am a little rude but :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D

I am a true blue Malaysian and no doubts about that!!! 8) If you have read the posts I made in the Scholarships FAQ, you should know that I am studying in Singapore only, not a Singaporean! :wink: Anyway, I am also a SPM 2003 leaver who is now under ASEAN scholarship, studying in Anderson Junior College in Singapore since January 04. :)

Yeah, correct, Singaporeans definitely cannot apply for JPA scholarship. Only Malaysians who took SPM 03 can apply for this one... Singaporeans have their own PSD-Public Services Department that offers scholarships too but I am proud to say that Malaysian government offers better ones!! :D Malaysia Boleh!!! :P

[zAiTsEv]

US ah?? Sorry, become blur already... I just remember that it is a high risk country that I am not willing to try out for...



wat do u mean by high risk? pls b more specific...

[chenghau]

a) high risk as in you won't be able to get the scholarship?

b) or high risk as in US might be the next target of terrorists?

if a) then I can quite safely say that (based on what I have been these two years) US is relatively easier to get than UK, and maybe Aus.

if b) then I can only say God bless America...

[zAiTsEv]

US ah?? Sorry, become blur already... I just remember that it is a high risk country that I am not willing to try out for...


do u define "high risk" as in it's hard 2 get in2 wharton?
as long as u perform in ur spm (straight a1s) & do well in ur interview, u'll hav a high chance of gettin the jpa scholarship.

[lilet]

a) high risk as in you won't be able to get the scholarship?

b) or high risk as in US might be the next target of terrorists?


Hahaha.. :lol: Actually is the first one lah... I didn't really think of the (b) option though it is a realistic one to consider.. :D

do u define "high risk" as in it's hard 2 get in2 wharton?
as long as u perform in ur spm (straight a1s) & do well in ur interview, u'll hav a high chance of gettin the jpa scholarship.

Yeah, I mean hard to get... That's exactly the problem - I am not a straight A1 student... :wink: On what I got, you can ask me personally if you are curious~! 8) Do well in interview, yeah, definitely have to do extra well or else gone lah my chances... :)

[KobeBryant]

is there anyone here studying actuarial science ?
Or studying actuarial science under JPA scholarship ?

so that can share with us about the studies

[orestes]

what do u want to know?

[KobeBryant]

i know that some unis offer actuarial science in Bachelor of Arts and some are Bahelor of Science ?

what are the differences ?

sometimes , actuarial science in some unis focuses more on maths while some emphasise in business elements and maths too

US or Australia is better for actuarial science ?
some exemptions are given in australia...i think it is good

can anyone enlighten me on these ?

thanks

[KobeBryant]

why don't some JPA sponsored actuarial science students post their comments here ?

so that others can heed on their advices

[chenchow]

As they are currently on their holiday, so I guess that might be one of the main problems. I believe their holiday is ending in a week or so.

Another thing is the instability of ReCom's server. Please be patient. Those people will be back on actions soon. and hopefully iPower.com can solve their problems ASAP!!!

[ElansarGelmir]

why don't some JPA sponsored actuarial science students post their comments here ?

so that others can heed on their advices

There's a class of Actuarial Science students in INTEC. In fact they are here, juz that u dun realize them being here. DecentMerson, jagganatha, Sky_walker, and gang. You can ask them if u want...

[orestes]

i know that some unis offer actuarial science in Bachelor of Arts and some are Bahelor of Science ? what are the differences ?

i thought i posted something up but i guess it never appeared...

anyway, Ba or BSc? personally, i dont think that it makes much of a difference... future job prospects are mainly determined by the amount of professional exams you have passed... so choose a university that guides you well for the exams...

sometimes , actuarial science in some unis focuses more on maths while some emphasise in business elements and maths too

math or business? i think it depends on your interest... again it all comes down to the exams, so choose a uni that covers everything u need to know to pass em... i chose to study in a business school coz i enjoy business related courses... but really, its up to u...

US or Australia is better for actuarial science ?
some exemptions are given in australia...i think it is good


US or Oz? well... i will be biased if i answer this question coz im studying in America... besides, i dont know squat about the system in OZ... so... you have to ask someone else about this... i will tell u this though... i am really enjoying my time here in america... i like the way the system works, and i prefer to do things the old fashioned way - taking exams...

if u have any other concerns, plz continue asking... i will try my best to answer em...

thanks

my pleasure...

[ydho_6]

hey there....

it's nice to see many ppl interested in actuary! i dont feel alone now haha...

currently studying actuarial science in LSE. to be honest, the actuarial science program layout for LSE is not really catering to the preparation for work and application in actuarial work, it is very statistical n i personally think it is a bit more like math n stats course. but nevertheless, ppl 'flock' to LSE for the prestige, n the 'toughness' of the course.

from what i compare, city university provides a more relevant course. however, i have to say that LSE learning material is much much much moRE HARDER (pardon for abuse of grammar>..) than in city. i think that is the way LSE does, so as to ensure the quality of the students are high. i have to admit it helps me a lot in thinking n structuring model, but i have to say that LSE studies is a bit too academic too, without much application.

so to study in LSE will prepare u well for research work, in city will be more application n training. it all depends on what style u want...

hm.. i think i better stop blabbering.. hope it helps a little to cyber... do feel free to reply, i will be glad to talk to u all..

[KobeBryant]

thanks , oretes

ydho_6 .hi
u r now studying actuarial science under the JPA scholrship ?

[ydho_6]

hi kobe.

me not under JPA now, kaki BNM ni.

u interested in actuary? or u already are studying it?

[KobeBryant]

hi kobe.

me not under JPA now, kaki BNM ni.

u interested in actuary? or u already are studying it?

wow..........u r BNM scholar , must be very good........
i know that BNM selects only the cream of the cream in Malaysia !
i am the SPM 2003 batch.........
i also attended the BNM scholarship interview....but i think i didn outshine others candidates there !

i really admire u for being the BNM scholar !

[Randomphantom]

Glad to see people going for act.science too! :P

You can go into actuarial science from any discipline - so long as you are able pass the exams. Some degree programs offer a faster track with exemptions (mainly aus and UK with their IAAA and FIA exams respectively, while america's SOA doesn't offer exemptions to my knowledge).

That said, a good start would be a degree with calculus, prob&stats and business/finance/econs. Maybe take some of the exams when u are still in uni/college. Heard that the exams are the toughest on earth! 8O

As orestes said, enquire first about the course structure. Some degrees focus more on maths, some on business. Ultimately, choose something you enjoy studying.

That said, a question: What if you don't want to be an actuary after an actuarial science degree? What are the options available.

[naturesimple]

few days ago i have attended an interview n accidentally the guy ask me what course i taking for BNM n i answered actuarial science...he was so suprised that BNM still offering that course cause according to him , that field is mainly worked by computer already. how true is that???

[Randomphantom]

Have you seen 'along came polly' i think its something like the Riskmaster! :lol:

I hear that working in this field, you apply only 30% (or less) of what you learn for the exams. But I do not believe that computers will replace actuaries - its a profession which needs real people to represent. Maybe you tend to focus more on meeting clients and leave the number crunching to the computer.

[KobeBryant]

few days ago i have attended an interview n accidentally the guy ask me what course i taking for BNM n i answered actuarial science...he was so suprised that BNM still offering that course cause according to him , that field is mainly worked by computer already. how true is that???

which interview did u attend ?

[ydho_6]

computers can do complex calculations and data sampling n model building and blah blah blah... but u have to bear in mind that normal ppl dont understand all the data preseented just like that... further more excecutive ( :wink: )

an actuary is someone who helps build the model, using knowledge in risk, programming and finance to devise a plan or write a new policy for insurance or investment. computers can calculate but it certainly is not suitable to write a new policy becuase u need to take into account human factor.

n u need a person who can understand what computer says and translate them into understandable language to explain to normal ppl. hence actuary need to know the numbers and need to have a good communication skills, to be able to simplify and summarize.

IAAA seems to be harder (from wat i heard) as they need some work experience b4 exams... FOA is based in scotland n my seniors said it is easier. i havent had any exam so i m NOT in a position to comment on this.

about US actuarial board. is there anyone who can brief me more about it? would like to exchange some info about actuary... get some intellectual exchange! hehehe....

regarding to the work available, actuarial science degree does not just restrict u to actuary path. there are many alternative u can apply in - investment banking (note: this job is EXTREMEMLY STRESSFUL!!! ), financial analyst, financial advisor stuff like that...

what i think is... it does not matter much what degree u get becuz to become an qualified actuary the professional exam is the one to determine. but what MATTERS is your ability to work, in whichever fields u r good at. u never know u might be better being an investment banking person than being an actuary.

and YES i agree with randomphantom, we only apply very little on what we study. study is more about theory building. working is very application based.

btw, randomphantom, where r u studying actuatial science? hope to know u better.

[chenchow]

I think the application of what we learn and what we will work with during our working life applies not only for actuarial science. In fact, I think the application of 30% of the stuff will be very high. I would personally think that the percentage is even much lower. Learn and unlearn and relearn is an important skills, and learning how to learn is essential. We just have to adapt.

[KobeBryant]

hi , ydho

u are BNM scholar or under JPA?

y u said that u was in ATU 7?
aren't the ATU programme is for JPA scholars only?
u study in London , then how come u was in ATU which prepares u to US ?

[Randomphantom]

Me? I haven't started my degree course yet :P Didn't get JPA or BNM whatever local scholarship, so I am 'stuck' going for Singapore NUS/NTU. I do have a friend going over to UK (either City/LSE) for act.science (maybe its my influence) with JPA, so you might be able to give her some pointers. I was thinking of NUS's computational finance instead of NTU BBus.... so see how my application goes first.

Getting BNM to sponsor thats a feat in itself.

[chenchow]

Yi Duan got JPA, before getting BNM. That's why she spent a few weeks in ATU program, and then she got BNM. So, she was originally planning to go US and after BNM, she decided to go UK for actuarial.

[KinkiKISS]

i m new here.. i m also want to study for actuarial sciece. i have made my decision to study in Uk next year. But wat's the problem is i dunno which of the university is the best choice for studying actuarial science. so, can anyone give me some idea?
my friends told me lse n heriot-watt r two of the reputated universities. is there anyone knows what differences among them?

[chenchow]

I think among the famous few will be LSE, City and Heriot-Watt. Guess Yi Duan will be in a much better position to explain since she is currently in LSE.

[KinkiKISS]

thank u chen chow. Yi Duan, can u tell me more about LSe? i also wan to know how much does a person spend over there (living expanses+tuition fees) for a year. thx

[ydho_6]

Tuition fees

Undergraduate around 10000 pounds per year


PER MONTH BASIS

living cost (applied only for london. i can assure you that other places are MUCH MORE CHEAPER than this bloody london...

(excluding rental) = 100 to 200 pounds. if u save enuff u can manage with 100 pound. for me about 150

(rental) = 350 - 500 pounds. depends on where u live.

so.... for a year i think should be around 6000 - 7000 pounds for living cost (this applies for very thrifty livling.. i cook everyday every meal so my living expenses can go below 100 sometimes.)

the expensive things here are
- transport
- sports
- food (eat out), so best advice - cook! imagine u can make same type of food costing 5 pounds out there with cost of just less than 1 pound.
- pub, clubbing
- books ARE expensive. ( :roll: n i tot they ENCOURAGE readin.. sigh)

[chenchow]

Yi Duan, I think KinkiKISS is also asking you about actuarial programs of LSE, Heriot-Watt and perhaps City too...

Yi Duan, how expensive is the book, as students in US tend to like to buy textbook from Amazon UK, as even with the exchange rate it is a lot cheaper.

[ydho_6]

Subject Review by QAA
(compare subjects for their quality assessment)

general link
www.qaa.ac.uk

Actuarial science link
http://www.qaa.ac.uk/revreps/subjrev/subjrev_subj_index.asp?subjID=34


About the tuition fees, sorry currently i m quite busy can't really look up every fees, but i have gathered some links that may be useful.. they are the links of universities with actuairal science with every single information u can find in there.. hope it helps

THese are direct links to Actuarial science

City university
http://www.city.ac.uk/ugrad/business/actuarial.htm

LSE
http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2004-2005/courses/Actuarial_Science/Default.htm

Herriot Watt
http://www.hw.ac.uk/prosp/ug/courses/gg13.php

Kent
http://www.kent.ac.uk/studying/undergrad/subjects/actuarial.html

Southampton
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/

Swansea
http://www2.swan.ac.uk/


really hope it helps...

[Randomphantom]

even though I got LSE's offer, no scholarship (and no pa/ma scholarship too). Too blardy expensive :o

[sKYwalker]

yi duan!! glad to know tat you hav joined recom.....

i m keng yang! under jpa scholarship (i din even manage to get the bn scholarship interview), currently studying in INTEC (International Education Center), wil fly to US to study in three more months. (fyi, i'l be studying in michigan ann arbor uni).

so, how's ur life there? how r u doing? as i m taking the same course, can giv me any advice on this course?(good or bad, tink can take it...haha..coz somehow got wind tat this profession is considered as the most formidable field in the world, even tougher than medicine...passing rate extremely low)

hope can keep in contact...anyway, my email address is
phua_keng_yang@<hidden>.

hear from u soon!

[ydho_6]

Keng Yang!

wow this is great! i keep discovering old friends in recom! so far met some old ATU 7 ppl, Writer's Bloc 6 ppl oso got (sian mei i saw you kekeke), n now sin min ppl are coming out! cool~!!!! any more of u guys here? do introduce.... :D

congratulations on getting JPA. make good use of the stay in UITM. u can definitely learn a lot from there. i must admit the life there is very hectic, but i enjoyed it very much last time... it makes u grow up.. n the best part is u get to know many interesting ppl!

i would be happy to talk about actuarial studies and anything else under the sun~.. :P do keep in touch. email me if u need anything. ydho_6@<hidden>

a better way is using msn la i think .. ydho_6@<hidden> hehe... while in uk i think i will online quite often. but rite now i m preparing for final so i will only be quite free after june. u will see me active after 5/6 hehehe...

stay connected!

[KobeBryant]

do u all think that actuarial science is a very tough course ? as tough as medicine ?

of course , actuarial science involves lots of maths ! but actually , other courses like engineering also need to do lots of maths , right? like calculus , probability , stastistic etc.... engineering students , right ?

actuarial science will be more on actuarial modelling and u need to have some knowledge of business, that's why the SOA and CAS papers also include tests on finance and economics

i heard from a friend that an actuary is a highly gloriied accountant....and another person tells me that actuarial science is medicine in commerce...haha

is it suitable to say that actuarial science is all about mathematics ?

[chenchow]

I think the definition of relative toughness would depend on individual. Some people who have deep interests and strong performance may find medicine easier than engineering. Those analytical people may find engineering easier etc... So, it will be very difficult to judge it.

For engineering, it is not necessary that you will have lots of Mathematics and calculus. It really depends on what you would like to take. Some of the courses may be pretty theoretical, some may be more emphasis on designs etc.

[kIdd0]

Hmmm... just one simple question :-
Are actuarial science graduates indeed so highly sought after as proclaimed by so many? I mean i have heard ppl braggin about the 0% unemployment rate n all that but then generally, are actuarists really in such high demand (particularly in M'sia)?? or is this 0% unemployment rate thingy that i overheard was just a mere exaggeration?? I know that graduates of this field are in rather in high demand particularly in Western countries but Msia?? Hmmm.... Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Randomphantom]

I do believe that actuarial science as a field is getting highly overrated and many are buying into the hype too. Is the demand really there for such a deluge of actuarial science graduates in the near future? Anyway I believe that anyone can take the degree and pass, but taking the professional exams while working will be the tougher part.

I hear that banks here usually don't come up with their actuarial tables instead they base it on the ones drawn up by Bank Negara...

[KobeBryant]

i do believe that qualified actuaries in malaysia have a very bright future....

by the time AFTA and WTO regulations take place , job opportunities are aplenty for actuaries...

most of the actuaries work in especially the life insurance sector , although there are other fields actuaries can specialise in such as finance , banking , investment , health insurance , general insurance , superannuation , pension....

to date , the penetration of life insurance in Malaysia acounts for only a mere 30% which is quite low relatively , compared to other more developed countries

my question :
Is it suitable to say that actuarial science is all about mathematics ?

[chenchow]

I personally don't think that Actuarial Science is merely Mathematics. I quote one of my Professor of nanofabrication here, using a formula without understanding the logic/reason/idea behind it is very dangerous.

Hence, modeling anything without really understanding the background will be disastrous. A person with strong mathematical ability with strong understanding and analytical skills will do a better job.

0% unemployment will be too idealistic. I think it will depend on how well a person is learning. Getting the degree is no big achievement, the main obstacle is in getting the Professional exams through.

[ydho_6]

i m having exam so i have to be brief. will elaborate more later.

3 message i wish to convey (in my opinion about the questions posted)

1) actuarial science is NOT ALL about math. involves lots of stats, modelling, finance, economics, accounting, etc etc etc. but basically the main idea is using statistical way trying to solve the economic problems within constraints by using models and stuff.. wow this is quite a wide topic. elaborate later.

2) actuarial science DO NOT guarantee a HIGHLY paid job. only qualified Actuary get paid in millions. and that depend on the need in different countries. just graduating with an actuairal science degree does not make u different from any other graduates at all. and do remmeber, there are MANY malaysians currently studying actuarial science. .. another thing, i strongly agree that this 'actuarial science' thing is overhyped. scary.

3) the difficulty depends on personal strength and interests. actuarial science is hard generally, but it depends on interests as well. for me i simply can't memorize things in medicine so i can't do medic for sure. but math and stats.... yum yum~!..

(argh my stats paper in 3 days time~!)

ok back to work now. will drop by next time.

p/s: chenchow thanks for comprehensive explanation about actuarial science. agree with your points

[KobeBryant]

hi , ydho_6
u can be the advisor of this thread !
more actuarial students should join in this thread to voice out their opinion


1. what are the differences between actuarial science and accounting?

2. those who won awards in national mathematics olimpiad will have an competitive edge over other actuarial students ?

[ydho_6]

haha kobe i m NOT an advisor la... just the one more talkative i think...

wow u posted quite hard questions le...

1) accounting is mainly historical backward looking (for financial accounting la). financial acc reports the figures that have been recorded and accumulated. so basically they are reorganizing (hopefully not manipulating) collected data to present in an understandable way to shareholders and other users.

management accounting is more interesting in a sense that they are done to plan for future, budgets, plan, costing.... etc.. but form what i learned so far... acc uses more common sense rather than just 'belajar mati'. quite useful in life.

actuarial science differs that it combines the 2 concepts of financial and management acc. it uses the past statistics to predict the future outcome. it is human's challenege over god with the concepts of risks and unpredictability.

hey hey... i recommend u to read a book. "Against the gods".i think it is by bernstein... a good book to know more about actuarial studies, stats, and risk. i like it a lot!



2) hm.. my friend happened to be the past champion of olympiad math. from chong hwa... scary man.... the math level is so high above mine! omigosh make me feel so small....u know la the pandai ppl in CH... they have an edge over us in mathematical thinking. but please dont let this dampen ur spirit yea... actuarial studies stress on group help n communication and sharing... i found discussing and proving the stats theories with friends very fun and rewarding!

hihi... anyway nice hearing ur voices again kobe... :D

[KobeBryant]

yeah, ydho_6

quite concur with u

the most distinct difference between accountant and actuary is accountants will prepare, report , organise and record the data , figures they have already while actuaries are to analyst , predict , make thorough research to come out with the reliable and credible data.
the INTI college ADP programme manager says in the oriental daily

ok , i will buy the book if i get the JPA scholarship to study actuarial science


Both accountant and actuary have to be excellent in communication and interpersonal skills as they have to relate their findings, data , results to their customers , managers , superiors , executive......
ermm.....communication is very important in every job

yeah , ydho_6
won't let it dampen my spirit.....

[greyhair]

halo, yi duan
i m spm 2003 leaver from sin min ....hihihi, ur junior. i heard ur name since many years ago.......nice 2 meet u here

i applied jpa for actuary 2...

[ydho_6]

hi zi hang.. nice seeing u here. n great hearing someone taking up actuarial science! hehe we r building up a convoy...

[KobeBryant]

it is just before and after one thing happens

actuaries do the job 1st like predicting one things and after it happens accountants take over...sth like that

the difference between accountants and actuaries, right ?

[LePip]

hey, i was just wondering.. since it seems LSE and city university appear to be the popular choice for actuarial science un the UK.. what about other countries like Australia and US? can anyone there highlight the difference between actuarial courses in uk, US, and australia... so which should be the best?
any recomers studying or planning to study actuarial science in australia? what are the good unis for actuary there..

[chenchow]

For US, I guess Wharton is the goal of almost everyone. Nevertheless, there are a number of other universities, including University of Michigan, University of Illinois etc. Guess I will leave it to those who are studying it or those who know more to reply!

[ydho_6]

hey, i was just wondering.. since it seems LSE and city university appear to be the popular choice for actuarial science un the UK.. what about other countries like Australia and US? can anyone there highlight the difference between actuarial courses in uk, US, and australia... so which should be the best?
any recomers studying or planning to study actuarial science in australia? what are the good unis for actuary there..

hi lepip... the difference is the actuarial board in different regions. uk, aus, and us.

here are the links for actuarial board in UK and AUS.

AUS
http://www.actuaries.asn.au/PublicSite/education/education_frameset.htm

UK
http://www.actuaries.org.uk/Display_Page.cgi?url=/index.html

for aus, i have seniors graduating from melbourne. if not mistaken i think only melbourne n another uni (forgot... sorry!) offer it.

in UK, LSE, City, heriot watt, kent, southampton and swansea offer the course. but the more prestigious ones are lse n city.

i will try find out about the australian ones for you after this week.
(still in exam. how sad....)

[KobeBryant]

there are only 4 unis in Australia that offer actuarial science.
they are Melbourne uni , Macquarie uni , UNSW and another uni that is not very famous(forgotten already)...hehe

[zillion]

Hi,

I am newbies around here.
Fascinated by the talk about actuarial science/math
I applied for the course for jpa scholarship but failed to secure a place.

I actually started doing ADP....planning and hoping and striving to get continuous good results and hopefully secure a good scholarship there. However hard is it, my entire family are supporting the idea of me going to US.

Now, the question is should i continue to appeal? Is it better to continue with what i am doing or getting a JPA scholarship?

i REALLY want to get a good degree (4 yrs in US sounds very tempting) but the chances are very low.

What chance do i have if my friends who have zillions of A1s ( abit too much...but hey don't u think the A1s are growing rapidly? ) compare to my 9A1s but didn't get any scholarships?
My mom don't encourage me to appeal as she has lost hope on JPA or the malaysian edu system in one way or another.

And ARE there any differences if u do 4 years there in US compare to the transfer programme? will i be in a disadvantage situation?

[chenchow]

zillion, I would reply on education of Actuarial Science here. Whereas on JPA, I guess it should be within that thread. I will just briefly touch on it here.

On doing twinning or 4-year in US, there are difference in the sense that you will have the entire education there or partially. It also depends on which university you are trying to enter. Most prestigious universities do not accept transfer students.

the education provided would be kind of different, by having 4 years there. You would get more chance to interact and network. That is an important component of education. You get to settle down and still have time to get involved and learn as much as you can.

However, I understand financially it would be a huge cost. So, you should weigh it up.

On whether to appeal, if you believe that you want to give it a try, go ahead. Having 9A1s doesn't mean that you are disadvantaged. There are a number of ReCom members with 9A1s get JPA. It depends on your overall performance: academic, co-curricular activities, interview etc)

[KobeBryant]

hi , zillion
where are u doing ur ADP ? INTI college ?

[abc123]

From what I know, gov only accept bachelor degree in science actuary from USA, only from this 3 universities
1. Uni of Iowa
2. Ball State Uni
3. Roosevelt Uni

Hmm.. looks like we have to strive harder cause it seems like there's not enough place..

:roll: :roll:

[yizheng]

Anyway, I am also a SPM 2003 leaver who is now under ASEAN scholarship, studying in Anderson Junior College in Singapore since January 04. :)

Hi Lilet, glad to tell u that I'm also from Anderson JC, class 04/01... U can know bout me from the teacher in charge, Mr. Jason Tan :)
Did u attend the Interschool Wushu Competition on 30/5? I talked to some AJ scholars there..

Currently doing actuarial science in NTU under ASEAN Undergrad Scholarship, but I've seen some seniors studying act sc till they have their scholarships lost, so...haha I better work hard or be prepared to follow suit.... :?

B4 coming NTU, I felt uneasy about act sc course in NTU bcoz it's under business school, and I'll graduate with a Bus degree. I had never thought of entering a business sch... I'd got a place at City University but no sponsorship. They're doing all the maths course in the first year, that was what I had wanted.

Now, after the first year of business foundations, I'm trully thankful to NTU policy, though i scored only in maths related courses, did badly in pure essay subjects, it has widen my eyesight, kindled lots of interest, recognised the importance of many other things in the commercial reality. To me, this is an education beyond training. Haha... I was still too young to decide for myself after a-level.

Later after that, I realised NTU is the only University in Asia(till now) that can obtain exemptions from IOA, so NTU should not be a bad choice to pursue act sc in this region :)

Learn and unlearn and relearn is an important skills, and learning how to learn is essential. We just have to adapt.

Heihei.. it reminds me of the phrase outside RI Library.. :D

[Randomphantom]

Oh, so you are from B.Bus (A.Science) in NTU? I am (very likely) heading to NTU for the same course under ASEAN scholarship too. As for said feeling of uneasiness, I share these sentiments too. I heard that it isn't a very quantitative course to begin with, right from the horse's mouth (the interviewer).
So I was wondering, since the entry requirements for the actuarial science specialisation is based on the first year subs, how would they actually 'filter' out those with math aptitude (hence actuarial skills) but maybe the course itself does not require a higher understanding of math (am also wondering why the banking and finance subs require A-lvl Maths?).
I was looking around for an 'insider' opinion of this course, so please feel free to share your study experience :) What do you mean by studying act. till having their scholarships withdrawn?

[windy_city]

From what I know, gov only accept bachelor degree in science actuary from USA, only from this 3 universities
1. Uni of Iowa
2. Ball State Uni
3. Roosevelt Uni

Hmm.. looks like we have to strive harder cause it seems like there's not enough place..

:roll: :roll:

??????
What u mean, I have so may friends doing acturial science in Penn Statae, Michigan Ann Anbor and UIUC under JPA. I think thier degree is recognized too.

[zillion]

Are you guys sure only three accepted???

Btw, is it really important for their degree to be recognized by the government?
Isn't it more important to pass the exam than the degree recognized?

How about Drake or Purdue or Michigan Ann Anbor??
Anyone has any idea of these places?
or any other suggestions?

[yizheng]

Oh, so you are from B.Bus (A.Science) in NTU? I am (very likely) heading to NTU for the same course under ASEAN scholarship too. As for said feeling of uneasiness, I share these sentiments too. I heard that it isn't a very quantitative course to begin with, right from the horse's mouth (the interviewer).
So I was wondering, since the entry requirements for the actuarial science specialisation is based on the first year subs, how would they actually 'filter' out those with math aptitude (hence actuarial skills) but maybe the course itself does not require a higher understanding of math (am also wondering why the banking and finance subs require A-lvl Maths?).

ya, there're business courses throughout the 3 years programme. In the first year, do well in statistics and finance, your place to act sc should be secured (that's my experience, coz did essay subjects very badly :) ). There's also a preparatory course for those interested in act sc b4 entering it to have a feel... I've juz gone thru it in this May holiday... The attendance for every lesson is half of the previous... :)

The act sc programme itself is very highly mathematical in content... act sc students have a privilege haha, ie easier to switch to other courses, normally banking & finance... coz the maths there is much easier,and it is the most related course. every year there're a number of ppl switching from act sc.. the course structure is following IOA 100 series exams, which are almost purely mathematical... the IOA exam format is under transition... dono how the course structure will be after 2005...

Banking & finance course involves quite a lot of maths. I've taken a module of B&F dealing with calculus and matrix algebra... juz as a gauge of my maths ability... it's much easier compared to act sc (also easier than other 1st year business essay subjects haha), but now, together with the first year finance course, i'm very interested in finance... this was not an area I would have thought of b4 entering business sch. Can u believe that I'm also very very interested in law now? haha.... after a business law module... actually most of the subjects are added to my favourite list... finance, law, marketing, economics, organisational behaviour, HR management, accounting, political economy... introduced to a wide variety in my first year.

I was looking around for an 'insider' opinion of this course, so please feel free to share your study experience :) What do you mean by studying act. till having their scholarships withdrawn?

I'm not yet an insider la.... :) only received the notification of streaming to act sc... will start next sem onwards... but i've been close to my seniors, get informed of what they're doing there... it means they performed below the expectation of MOE...

[chenchow]

Disagree with abc123 on the recognized courses by Government in JPA.

Check this link:-
http://www.eghrmis.gov.my/indeks.asp?url=iktiraf
(Not sure why it is down now, but I go and browse it many times already)

there are JPA scholars at Wharton, UMich, Ann Arbor, UIUC etc doing Actuarial science...

And agree, it is the professional exams that matter..

[Randomphantom]

zillion--> Its the exams that matter, malaysian act soc recognises all the professional exams... anyway, heard that some u's like georgia state u and u of waterloo are pretty good for their actuarial science course, although Kellogg and Wharton is pure prestige all by itself. You could check out their websites, I think they have many co-op opportunities and industry exposure, with real life actuaries in the faculties. I think scholarships in the US are a tad tough to get but it depends on the U. SAT scores, extracurricular, that college essay, all play a bigger part then SPM scores.

yizheng --> the course is tough so I heard... anyway what are the jobs are for the graduates from this course? Heard that its pretty tough for B.Bus grads to find a job. Any other besides actuarial trainee?

Heard that a student transferred to NUS Maths after he found the business subs in year 1 not his cup of tea...am wondering whether it is not so Maths oriented after all.

But then, never having sat through a business class, I might even find some of these subjects interesting... definitely not accounting though... zzz

[windy_city]

zillion--> Its the exams that matter, malaysian act soc recognises all the professional exams... anyway, heard that some u's like georgia state u and u of waterloo are pretty good for their actuarial science course, although Kellogg and Wharton is pure prestige all by itself.


I think you have some misunderstanding about Kellogg. Kellogg is not opened for undergraduate studies, it is only for graduate level studies such as MBA (it has tones of different MBA for you to choose from, but the tuition fees is not cheap)

Kellogg is no doubt the best business school in the world, but it does not offer actuarial science.

[abc123]

I think I was confused with the information in the iktiraf site.

http://www.eghrmis.gov.my/indeks.asp?url=iktiraf

University of Iowa }
Ball State University } B.S (Actuarial Science)
Roosevelt University }

University of Connecticut }
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor }
Georgia State University } M.S (Actuarial Science)
University of Texas, Austin }
University of Nebraska }
Tempel University }


So, i thought that gov only accept bachelor degree from 3 universities that i mention before & the other universities is just for others who are doing masters. But it's kinda weird if gov didn't approve the bachelor degree from the other 6 unis but approve the masters degree from there. Hmm??

I also agree that professional exam is more important than the degree recognized. But i'm just afraid that in long-term situation, it's hard for us to get a job if our degree is unrecognised locally, just like the guy who graduated from Akita Uni in Japan, but at last get frustated just because his medical degree was not recognised by MMC.

[yizheng]

yizheng --> the course is tough so I heard... anyway what are the jobs are for the graduates from this course? Heard that its pretty tough for B.Bus grads to find a job. Any other besides actuarial trainee?

Heard that a student transferred to NUS Maths after he found the business subs in year 1 not his cup of tea...am wondering whether it is not so Maths oriented after all.

But then, never having sat through a business class, I might even find some of these subjects interesting... definitely not accounting though... zzz

Yap.... I'm told by some professors this is one of the toughest programme in NTU, very demanding.... they don advise me to add more activities to my timetable... hehe.. seniors are saying the same also... overload... coz we're doing maths and business, i feel it like a double major haha... or at least a compulsory minor...

For the job prospect of B.Bus grads, wat I've heard is the opposite... B.Bus easier to find job, and all those with 5 figures salary per month when just graduate are B.Bus... I only heard and saw in papers la... never went survey yet .... I've known 2 seniors working in bank, 1 switches to marketing field in Double A paper company... some fields that we can go into have been mentioned by Orestes in the 3rd post on the 1st page.

Business year 1 is not maths oriented, I would call it eye-opening oriented, very general.. prepare us with the basic business foundations... with so many subjects in a year, it certainly cannot provide deep knowledge of every field... it only opens the door, pursue further later in whatever field(s) that we're interested in whether on our own or thru a formal education. Look thru the websites on what will be covered in NTU and see for yourself... u can also choose NUS maths if u don like it..:)

During my time, NUS and NTU have joint admission, it looks weird to my friends that my 1st choice is Nanyang Business School, 2nd choice is NUS statistics... :?

[Randomphantom]

windy_city-->Yes I confused Kellogg and undergraduate actuarial science, which neither of them offered by Kellogg.

yizheng--> I too applied for NUS science and NTU business. I guess business studies are quite important for actuarial practise. Overload... and I was even thinking about adding a minor or something, silly me.

Right now the actuarial syllabus has changed (2005) - do you know of NTU adjusting its courses to suit the new syllabus...and will it retain its exemption status? And i believe those that pass a suitable mark on the exams are eligible to apply for exemtions (eg A grade?)

And another question, its a 3 year direct honors isn't it? I think its so hectic bcos of this. Compared with UK act. sci courses, they don't have the IA taking up a sem.

[yizheng]

yizheng--> I too applied for NUS science and NTU business. I guess business studies are quite important for actuarial practise. Overload... and I was even thinking about adding a minor or something, silly me.

Right now the actuarial syllabus has changed (2005) - do you know of NTU adjusting its courses to suit the new syllabus...and will it retain its exemption status? And i believe those that pass a suitable mark on the exams are eligible to apply for exemtions (eg A grade?)

And another question, its a 3 year direct honors isn't it? I think its so hectic bcos of this. Compared with UK act. sci courses, they don't have the IA taking up a sem.

haha those choosing this combination are sure aiming at actuarial science :D it overloads easily coz it's tough, but it depends on individual... noone will stop u.. have taken some leadership positions in ECA, plan to minor in economics.... will let go if really cannot tahan hehe...

from the website, the syllabus remains largely the same, only the structure reshuffled. the papers are still there, some combined, 1 new paper added... they're recategoried to technical and application, not 100,200 etc series... this is wat i recall from memory and conversation with senior :).. those doing act sc in UK like ydho_6 maybe more updated on this... i dono wat NTU will do to this programme in future... no change right now. there should still be exemption for the 100 series (9 papers)..

for exemption requirement, think it depends on the profs... exam grade is relative, not absolute... if the whole cohort performs badly, even those getting an A cannot be exempted.

Haha... I know about the direct honours thing after I came to NTU... dono wat my friends were telling me at first :) Ohya.. only the engineering students wil have attachment for 1 sem, our attachment is in the holiday (mine during next year this time), for 2 months...

[KobeBryant]

why everyone chooses Michigan for actuarial science...ATU 10
there must be different reasons for every 13 actuarial students out of 17 who go to Michigan.
cannot be they all have the same reason ?

michigan is the best after wharton ?
then how about university of wisconsin and UCUI ? they are also highly competitive unis.

where to get the most reliable info about unis if u say that the info on unis official website cannot be trusted ? they are promoting their unis

[KobeBryant]

is there anybody who is studying actuarial science at University of Illinois , University of Wisconsin ? or who has friends or relatives studying actuarial science there ?

[jagganatha]

Ok Kobe i have my cousin brother who is also an ATU senior (ATU8,9) in Illinois doin actuaril science. If you want his contact, please PM me..

[rimbun]

The two main professional bodies are the Society of Actuaries (SoA) and Casualty Actuarial Society (CAS). SoA has 8 exams and CAS 9. Courses 1, 2 and 4 are offered jointly. For Course 3, CAS will recognise the SoA Course 3 but not vice versa. (I met one of the guys who was on the CAS exam board - he said that it was because CAS candidates tend to do relatively badly on the SoA exam :) , which is why they came up with their own exam )
however, they are revamping the curriculum and the new one that comes out in Spring 2005 will be easier all round ( less material covered). Also, there have been suggestions to give exemptions for college credits earned, but i believe that is still in the planning stage.
anyway, the last time i surfed around to the Actuarial Society of Malaysia website, they recognised SoA qualifications but made no mention of CAS.

[rimbun]

erm, and that's for the US

[chenchow]

Thanks rimbun for sharing about actuary. May be let me do a bit promotion of you. I will let you introduce your own name, but she is in UPenn doing actuarial science . I believe she is the only one from INTEC/OPP to get into UPenn to do actuarial science at Wharton School. So, feel free to ask her questions.... Rimbun, hope you don't mind me promoting you like this right?

[Randomphantom]

hmm.. it must be some kind of fad... Y is everyone jumping on the actuarial science bandwagon? Will supply = demand?

Is it because of job prospects? Quite limited locally (malaysia) as insurance companies use the same tables and they usually adopt the minimum amt of actuaries required which is 1 each (so I hear). Government sector might have more related employment opportunities. Else why would they send students to study.

Is it because of money? (duh) But some other jobs have higher ROI, I being the countless hours spent on studying for tough-as-nails exams.

I'm guessing it must be more then that. Interest? In what form? Welcome any thoughts on this...

[KobeBryant]

SOA is going to revamp the professional papers from 2005 onwards ??? US actuarial students , is it ? how will it be different from current papers ?

[chenchow]

I wonder if anyone can help me out with this....
My first career choice is to be an actuary. But since i did not get the jpa scholarship and i didn't want to go through form 6, I decided to accept YTM's scholarship to study a pre-univerity course in MMU. Then, I will most probably continue with a degree in Accounting. If I do take up Accounting as my degree, what should I do after i've graduated in order to be an actuary? I get to choose the electives in my degree. So, what subjects should i take so that it helps me in becoming an actuary in the future? I really do hope someone can help me. Thank you.

This post has been copied from a redundant thread. Please continue discussion here.

Axia, Welcome to ReCom family and hopefully there will be responses to your questions pretty soon..Enjoy~!

[chenchow]

Axia, I think the main thing you need to look at would be to look at the Professional examination bodies, and see what kind of paper needs to be taken.

I am not an actuarist, but I believe that you don't need to have an actuary degree to be an actuarist. Try to prepare yourself for those professional exams and then seek help from it.

Go through the discussions in this thread too, and perhaps contacting some of those actuarist students here

[Randomphantom]

Accounting is another field altogether...(although "actuaries are glorified accountants")... you really have to think long and hard about it. But given that you don't know about the difference, I believe you need to put more effort into understanding your career options first, instead of blindly jumping in.

[opaqa]

hmm... quite interesting to see a discussion about actuarial science going on here. i'm JPA sponsored, doing actuarial science program in UIUC.

In term of changes in the professional exams in US... what's relevant to us for now is Course 1-4 exams (taking more than that during your undergraduate studies would make you somewhat overqualified... in the US anyway...)

Based on what my academic advisor said, the exams are now...
Course 1 = Exam P
Course 2 = Exam MF
Course 3 = Exam M (SOA and CAS offer different paper for Exam 3)
Course 4 = Exam C

The syllabus: http://www.casact.org/admissions/syllabus/pe2005/

Exam 1 / P: (3 hours) Probability (calculus assumed)

Exam 2 / MF: (2 hours) Interest theory

Exam 3 / M: (4 hours) Actuarial models

Exam 4 / C: (4 hours) Construction / evaluation of models


The new ?Validation by Educational Experience? (VEE):
http://www.casact.org/admissions/news/vffprocess.htm


If you're not yet in an actuarial science program and have no idea what i'm talking about, just ignore it. it'll only give you headache. you'll find out soon enough after you enter the program.

Also, actuarial science is not just about math. you can be a genius in math and still suck as an actuary. think more towards: economic and finance combined with math and statistics (umm... and maybe a bit of accounting - though i don't think it's very relevant, it could be useful in the future) so, even when you don't end up as an actuary, you will still have other career options such as working in risk management, investment, etc.

In addition, to correct a common misunderstanding among students who're entering actuarial program, actuaries don't predict, they estimate. go look in the dictionary. those two vocabularies aren't the same.

hmm.. about UIUC... we have an awesome actuarial program here (Bsc.) In addition to the regular classes that you can find pretty much in all the other universities, the program offers classes that concentrate on (real-life) actuarial problems. Just last semester i took a casualty class where we have actuaries, taking a break from their work, giving lectures in our class, explaining/teaching everything about the fundamentals of casualty actuarial science. This semester they offer a class that is more relevant towards life actuaries. There are also classes that are specifically designed to help students prepare for the professional exams.

In terms of tuition and fees:
http://www.oar.uiuc.edu/current/tuit.html

it's easy to get a bachelor's degree in actuarial science. but it's not easy to be an actuary. my advice is think before you make a decision to get into the program. don't jump into it for the wrong reason, i.e. money. i know that some actuarial majors brag about actuaries getting paid millions. but take note that you only get paid well if you're good at you're doing. and that takes hard work.

[lolilo]

i am kinda confuse about choosing between actuarial science or medicine. i can study both n ..............
can someone studying AS please enlighten me about the pros n cons of both courses....
if a apply 4 a JPA schlorship,which one should i put in my first choice?which one stand more chance?please i really would like to know.
n iknow medicine is a more secured one......

[opaqa]

Well, if you have to ask that question at all......

Forget the scholarship for a minute.

Ask yourself what YOU want to do? Do you even know what will be required of you in each field? What do you know about actuarial science? compare that with what you know about medicine.

Why would you want to be in actuarial science? or Why would you want to be in medicine? what is it about those two areas that you like?

Think it over. Research. Don't take the easy way out by asking people. do your own research. the internet offers a lot of info. coz i don't think you can ever get the right answer by asking an actuary/medicine student the pro and cons of what they're studying. different people think differently.

When you said that 'medicine is a more secured one', did you mean that it is easier to get into medicine than actuarial science? like you'll have a higher chance of getting a scholarship if you applied for medicine? seriously?

are you still in school, as in going to take SPM? or have you taken SPM already? coz if it's the latter, i think you've probably missed the deadline. if it's the former, just don't worry about this stuff yet. go get the very much needed A1s before you even dream about getting into medicine.

i personally think that it is important to like what you do. that is to choose actuarial science/medicine because you're really interested in it. not because it will get you a scholarship. are you sure you dont like tech-related majors or psychology or philosophy or animal sciences or political science or education or arts and design... etc. etc. etc.

[lolilo]

thank a lot
i mean that i have 2 interest that is medicine n actuarial science
i have already taken spm n m recently waiting 4 my results.

my grades in add maths maths n bio r about the equals. i dunno bout my spm results tho.... i like medcine cos i like the fact that doctors help ppl n i m interested in humans..

n i love AS too as i love the challenge of solving problems figuring stuff n i have a craze 4 maths...

my dilemmais that what would u all choose if u r in my shoes... please gimme some opinions,n i really have done lots of research on the net,

my meaning of secured is that i have the confident to pass well in med...but not in AS
but hearing that AS is tough(no one never says easy) i m kinda....
ok heres a thing:my add maths results in secondary school is always 90 and above n i frequently get 100 in quizzes..... to all the AS students, can u tell me where do i stand if i pick up AS?i know its not a thing to be said now, but i just want an overview, n i dun want to dropout if i really take up AS

may i ask:inJPA schlorship which course stand more chance?please be frank i dun mind.i really need a schlorship as these 2 courses is really a financial burden.

thanks guys

[DecentMerson]

thank a lot
i mean that i have 2 interest that is medicine n actuarial science
i have already taken spm n m recently waiting 4 my results.

my grades in add maths maths n bio r about the equals. i dunno bout my spm results tho.... i like medcine cos i like the fact that doctors help ppl n i m interested in humans..

n i love AS too as i love the challenge of solving problems figuring stuff n i have a craze 4 maths...

my dilemmais that what would u all choose if u r in my shoes... please gimme some opinions,n i really have done lots of research on the net,

my meaning of secured is that i have the confident to pass well in med...but not in AS
but hearing that AS is tough(no one never says easy) i m kinda....
ok heres a thing:my add maths results in secondary school is always 90 and above n i frequently get 100 in quizzes..... to all the AS students, can u tell me where do i stand if i pick up AS?i know its not a thing to be said now, but i just want an overview, n i dun want to dropout if i really take up AS

may i ask:inJPA schlorship which course stand more chance?please be frank i dun mind.i really need a schlorship as these 2 courses is really a financial burden.

thanks guys

well... i'm studying Actuarial Science in University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, under JPA sponsorship... however, i've yet to sit for any Actuarial professional paper. so far... the math courses are still fine... and taking 2 math courses (some of my fren even took 3 math courses ) in a semester will keep u occupied...

by looking solely at ur scores for exams and quizzes, i can't really tell.. i think most of the JPA scholarships holder have such results... but maybe ur school exams are tougher... so, i can't really tell... and SPM and school exams are very predictable.... u can even tell which question is from which chapter... so, u can really score for Add Math paper even if u dun completely understand some chapters...

when u say AS is tough, i think u meant those actuarial papers are tough rite??? it is definitely tough, if not, millions of ppl will become actuaries and the job prospect for actuaries to be will be really bad.

about chances, u shld ask the actuaries... ahaha, that's what we do rite... calculate the odds, predict the outcome and come up with solutions to minimize the risk... for JPA scholarship, every year... thousands of ppl apply for the medicine scholarships, regardless of which country.... and only a handful(maybe 100 or more) of those apply for Actuarial Science... BUT, it is hard to say which is easier or harder becoz JPA offers many scholarships for medicine, but lesser for Actuarial science...

well... about two these courses as financial burden... consider local university then... many local universities have actuarial science major...

most important point is,
Ask yourself what YOU want to do? Do you even know what will be required of you in each field? What do you know about actuarial science? compare that with what you know about medicine.

what's ur interest, when u can only choose one field, which one is more of ur interest... medicine or actuarial science... although this may sound clich?, but the most important thing is know what u want and why u want it...

well.... want to learn more, try to contact the Actuarial Society in Malaysia... try google for it...

goodluck...

[lolilo]

Thanks a lot , really.
um, i know that UKM offers AS courses, but i had checked the previous students record n it is really not so good(not really honourable)america is better 4 AS, i think.

i will try to figure out..... thanks...hope others could give their advice too.

[opaqa]

Honestly, i think in AS it all depends on how hardworking you are. how much you study. yes, you have to have the brains coz AS also involves a lot of thinking process. but in the end, if you don't study, and you don't know how to apply what you study, you never gonna make it. coz you're never gonna pass the exams. in UKM's case, i don't think it's the program that is not good. but rather the students' attitude and lack of competition among them maybe. UiTM also offers AS program.

My advice is, if you really want to do AS, and you're confident and comfortable enough about it, just go for it. By the way, do you like finance? coz if you don't, you're not gonna like AS.

Did you get A1 for Bio? If yes, and you have straight As, or at least a lot of A1s like 8 or more, i think you stand a chance to get medicine. otherwise, i'd advice you to just forget about it coz it's really tough competition - unless you really really really want to do medicine and nothing else (i had a friend like that, and she turned down several scholarship offers until JPA offered her to do medicine in Japan!).

oh and you're not past the deadline. i got confused with the 2004 and 2003 dates :lol: my bad. good luck!

[lolilo]

thanks guys.
i think i will wait 4 the results b4 i make any important decision.
haha too bad i cant take both courses(i will have a mental case if i do).BUt i will make the wisest decision n i hope i wont regret anything.
i really do hope i get a1 4 bio tho(this year bio is really tough n weird, they really do apply the KBKK thing they suggest).
God Bless Me

[chenchow]

This is posted by a fellow ReComer in another thread, so I copy it here.

I really wanna go to US because I want to study Actuarial Science which is quite popular in US. However, I can never go there on my own money because it's way too costly. Therefore, I need to get a scholarship. Moreover, I need an advice about wat to do next. So, anyone who has the information and wishes to share, chat wif me in ICQ, msn or yahoo. Don't spam plz. Meanwhile kindly reply here.

[chenchow]

khor_albert, you can read up on issues about Actuarial Science here and for questions on scholarships, check out the main scholarship thread on the main page of ReCom.org . For actuarial, JPA and Bank Negara do offer scholarships to do actuarial science.

JPA sends its scholars to US, and there would be about 30 such scholarships and Bank Negara would send about 3-6 of its scholars to UK for actuarial. There are a number of ReComers who are scholarship holders in Actuarial Science, so please utilize their resources well~! Good Luck.

For general scholarship question, please post at the main Scholarship Thread here in ReCom.org~! Welcome on board~!

[aquila]

US is the best place to attend college! If you're in a reasonably good university, keep an open mind, and try the opportunities out there, you really will have the time of your life!

I absolutely love my time here!

That said, I work 14 hrs a day (classes and other activities). I also work during the weekends.

You'll also probably meet the most diverse student body in the States. Whites, Africans, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans.. you name it, they've got it. Interesting to actually find out how many of your peers are children of immigrants. Plus, having great friends who are from Eastern Europe, Middle East, Africa, etc just adds to the experience.


It's your call.

[snowangel]

hi, im a new member..

about acturial science, this's wat i wanna 2 do..
i graduated SPM at 2003 n i applied for JPA for this course but i failed to get through although i did go for the interview

as for the JPA scholarship, if your parent are public servants, the probability of getting this scholarship will be much more higher. as for others (like me), better plan yourself a better path

[deaf-knee]

as for the JPA scholarship, if your parent are public servants, the probability of getting this scholarship will be much more higher. as for others (like me), better plan yourself a better path

my brother applied and he didn't get it.

my parents are both teachers.

hrmm???????

[chenchow]

This is copied from a redundant thread. Please continue discussion here.

IT is a new subject, right.Does anybody outhere studying AS with a schlorship fr any bodies?How do we apply?Please inform.
Hows the subject?tough?Cos i hear most of my senior saying it is.
Whats the prospect?
Thanks 4 ur time. :D



It's not new...

JPA offers scholarship to study this subject in the States.

I believe there is an actuarial thread in recom which discusses about virtually everything in this field...(difficulty, prospect...etc). i m not sure whether u can still find it...

http://www.recom.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=706&highlight=actuarial

if i'm not mistaken.. inti has it.. bt it's really hard.. u have to be darn good in maths..

Please continue the discussion here.

[digimushu]

Anyone can actually do a degree in actuarial science. but whether you pass all the papers that certifies you as an actuary, that is another thing altogether.

[chenchow]

yeah, as digimushu said, you can just do an actuarial science degree. That's not the tough part. The tougher part would be to pass the professional exam. However, you do not need to pass all the papers, if I am not wrong. You need to pass a certain number of papers, before getting certified as an actuarist.

[DecentMerson]

Anyone can actually do a degree in actuarial science. but whether you pass all the papers that certifies you as an actuary, that is another thing altogether.

On the other hand, u can do other degree, like Econs, Stats, or just Maths and take the professional papers on your own...

(just to let u know, u can take ur professional paper anytime... even in ur first year of college)

and one more thing to take note... i dun think that actuarist is a word...
it shld be actuary....

actuary - A statistician who computes insurance risks and premiums

[lolilo]

i would like to have an overview bout the professional examination b4 i take a leap into actuarial science. i am told that it is very hard. How do u take it/ do u have to study it by your own ? what if i just dont pass those exams, what would happen?

[flibbertigibbet]

You can try out some of the questions here (the link below):

http://www.beanactuary.org/

Click on the Interactive Actuarial Exams for High School Students and College Students once you get into the site. Although the questions there are probably a lot easier than those in the professional exams, you can always get an idea of what actuary science expects its students to study before you make your decision and take your leap.

[syafiq]

i'm fascinated with actuarial science but i quite not understand with it.the only thing i knew that this stuff is worth for those who excels in math right? however did the course still need a talent about how we manage something.. and how sensitive we are with the environment... and 1 more thing, i'm still wondering about the job apportunity in malaysia? do i have to worry about it? if i gradute in malaysia do i have difficulty to find ajob in other country such as US.. SOMEBODY HELP ME

[chenchow]

i would like to have an overview bout the professional examination b4 i take a leap into actuarial science. i am told that it is very hard. How do u take it/ do u have to study it by your own ? what if i just dont pass those exams, what would happen?

Basically you have unlimited time frame to pass, i.e. you will only be an actuary after you pass the number of tests. You will need to register for the tests, and I would say for a number of those tests, you will have learn it somewhere else, like micro econ, probability & statistic, although it may not be a direct course by course.

You can always retake, the only thing is that you have to pay to take each of the test.

[jackjack]

i wonder whether the job prospect for actuaries will be very bright...very limited job opportunities--that's what i heard...my uncle says in malaysia only insurance companies employ actuaries while pension funds, investment banks basically hire accountants instead of actuaries

i m interested in actuarial science but i m worried that i couldn't find a job after i graduate

[el_empty]

there's something like 20 full actuaries in malaysia. you'll *definitely* get a job. otherwise singapore will grab you.

[Randomphantom]

http://www.soa.org/ccm/content/exams-education-jobs/education-redesign/process-for-validation-by-educational-experience/
The exam system for SoA (US actuarial body) has been somewhat revamped so take note whether your university/college has courses that meet these VEE requirements.

btw, you'd 100% get a job only if you become an actuary - only with all exams passed do you get to carry the "actuary" moniker. If you haven't done so you're actually just an actuarial student. But get some exams underhand to prove your determination, and you shouldn't worry about not getting a job. There are other options in finance and investments too.

[KobeBryant]

But get some exams underhand to prove your determination, and you shouldn't worry about not getting a job. There are other options in finance and investments too.

agree !!
banking , investment , finance
- unit trust
- warrants , bonds
- commodity

other than insurance(life, health, vehicle, etc), the traditional working area for actuaries

[el_empty]

you get to be the cashier instead of the waiter if you work at a restaurant

[chenchow]

This is quoted from a redundant thread. Please continue discussion here.

hi, i am interested in studying actuarial science and would like to have some info on it. My brother said that I can find a lot of info about that here. So anyone can point me to those info?? I also hope that someone (those who are studying actuarial science) can explain briefly about this course. Tell me what i should know. Thanks. :D

hey hey, JPA send the scholars who take actuarial science to what countries?

i know people were sent to USA and Australia for this course.[/quote]

[Ixora]

but i heard that JPA only sends scholars of actuary science to uk. is it the country change every year? and this year is usa and australia? :?: :?: :?:

[Ixora]

sorry, i more question... how long is the bond for JPA in actuary science? :wink:

[DecentMerson]

sorry, i more question... how long is the bond for JPA in actuary science? :wink:

4 years

[shyong]

Anybody knows how much is the basic salary for AS degree holder in Malaysia ? Coz i heard that its only 1k to 2k per-month . Or am i wrong ?Besides , is the salary so much in M'sia like the one stated in www.beanactuary if we pass all professional paper for AS or its just for overseas ?

[Ixora]

decentmerson, are you taking actuary science? which scholarship did you take? :D

[DecentMerson]

decentmerson, are you taking actuary science? which scholarship did you take? :D

Yes, I'm majoring in Actuarial Math (aka Actuarial Science) here in University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. I'm under JPA scholarship.

[Ixora]

Yes, I'm majoring in Actuarial Math (aka Actuarial Science) here in University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. I'm under JPA scholarship.

what do you study under this field? i mean, which subjects you have to take? is it hard? hopefully not... :D

by the way, what year did you get JPA scholarship? what year did you graduate from form 5?

[DecentMerson]

Yes, I'm majoring in Actuarial Math (aka Actuarial Science) here in University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. I'm under JPA scholarship.

what do you study under this field? i mean, which subjects you have to take? is it hard? hopefully not... :D

by the way, what year did you get JPA scholarship? what year did you graduate from form 5?

well... basically math(probability and statistics), a bit of Econs, programming, finance...

hard??... it's ok... yet to sit for my professional paper, so, can't comment on that....

i'm from spm 2002 batch... got the scholarship the next year...

[Ixora]

Do i need to take any extra subjects in SPM so that the chances of getting JPA scholarship in this field is higher? eg.: econ, account, perdagangan...

too late for me to say that, because i already had my SPM and already took my results! :oops:

[Ixora]

sorry again... :oops: can anyone enlighten me which countries does JPA send the scholars to take actuary science this year? :?

[DecentMerson]

Do i need to take any extra subjects in SPM so that the chances of getting JPA scholarship in this field is higher? eg.: econ, account, perdagangan...

too late for me to say that, because i already had my SPM and already took my results! :oops:

i think JPA listed some requirements for every courses... check the webpage or the forms... it shld be stated clearly.... as long as u meet these requirements, u are fine...

and regarding to which countries that JPA send students to pursue Actuarial Science, as far as I know, only to US... (not so sure about Australia)

[Ixora]

and regarding to which countries that JPA send students to pursue Actuarial Science, as far as I know, only to US... (not so sure about Australia)

UK or US? blurr already... :?

[DecentMerson]

and regarding to which countries that JPA send students to pursue Actuarial Science, as far as I know, only to US... (not so sure about Australia)

UK or US? blurr already... :?

many of us are in the States... and many of them (SPM 2003 batch) who are offering Actuarial Science are coming to the States.... so, US i guess...

[Ixora]

after you come to the States, do you choose the university yourself? or the university is already chosen for you?

[DecentMerson]

after you come to the States, do you choose the university yourself? or the university is already chosen for you?

we apply to several universities under JPA 'ranking' (Barron's Report) during our preparatory course at INTEC, UiTM Shah Alam... then, we will choose from the Unis which offer us a place... so, we choose the university on our own but under certain JPA guidelines..

[Ixora]

we apply to several universities under JPA 'ranking' (Barron's Report) during our preparatory course at INTEC, UiTM Shah Alam... then, we will choose from the Unis which offer us a place... so, we choose the university on our own but under certain JPA guidelines..

how long will you take for the preparatory course in INTEC? how many universities can we apply under the JPA ranking?

thanx... :D

[DecentMerson]

we apply to several universities under JPA 'ranking' (Barron's Report) during our preparatory course at INTEC, UiTM Shah Alam... then, we will choose from the Unis which offer us a place... so, we choose the university on our own but under certain JPA guidelines..

how long will you take for the preparatory course in INTEC? how many universities can we apply under the JPA ranking?

thanx... :D

the preparatory course ADFP (America Degree Foundation Program) also known as ATU (America Top Universities) program is a year long program... from June to June....(about that)...

u can apply to all the universities under JPA 'ranking', which is 6 for Actuarial Science major... if u want to have more choices for Uni, try to change ur major to Actuarial Science/ Math, then, u'll be able to apply to more unis..

but 1 thing to remember, JPA will only pay for 3 (4 at most if u are the selected few) Uni application fees.... u might need to empty ur pockets if u want to apply to more universities, which normally cost about USD$50 - $100 per application (depends on which Uni)

[Ixora]

what's the difference between actuarial science and actuarial maths? :wink:

[jun]

if i'm not mistaken, actuarial maths is a higher version of actuarial science.

[KobeBryant]

regarding to which countries that JPA send students to pursue Actuarial Science, as far as I know, only to US... (not so sure about Australia)

JPA do send students to Australia. but most actuarial students are sponsored to US

During my year (SPM 2003), US was the only choice for country in the JPA scholarship application form. Then after that , i found out from my friends that JPA still sponsored some to Australia

[zAiTsEv]

if i'm not mistaken, actuarial maths is a higher version of actuarial science.

?

[Ixora]

does it mean that actuary maths is more major in maths?

[DecentMerson]

i'm not sure about how other Unis are using actuarial math and actuarial science, but here, in University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, the math department uses it interchangeably...

and sorry for causing the confusion above... i said actuarial science/math... it shld be read as actuarial science or Math... not actuarial science or actuarial math...

[DecentMerson]

by the way... can the moderator change the thread title to Actuarial Science/ Sains Aktuari .... it does get on my nerves to see 'Actuary Science' every time i read the subject at the frontpage...

[RavenHawk]

DecentMerson, what would your degree be? Would it say a BSc. Math or BSc. Actuarial Science?

Anyway, brief introduction, I'm an active slacker currently a freshman in New York University, doing a double major in actuarial science and finance.

There is little difference between a BSc. Actuarial Science and BA Actuarial Science, just that a BA means that you are taking it under a liberal arts college and your degree would be tailored more towards arts subjects rather than business subjects. Nonetheless, I'm not sure if there is any significance of consideration when being hired by businesses, the trend in America is that what is most important is the internships you have. NYU's Stern School of Business has one of those cutthroat environments because Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and the rest of Wall Street is just a stone throw away. One thing that would make you stand out especially when applying to an American university is work experience.

Anyway, I've already taken my first actuarial exam last fall. I'm glad to say that I passed it well enough, and I guess that's rather significant. On one hand, I would say that the test was pretty easy, not because I've passed, but because prior to taking the exam, I had taken no math or stats classes in NYU, just relying on the math knowledge I got out of high school and a single statisitics text book. Though many people would wait until their junior year (3rd year) to take it, it's best if you can take it asap just to see how far you're progressing. The fee for the first exam is about USD90. I think the fee for the third exam is close to USD300. It scales exponentially I think. If you're working, your employer would pay the exam fees for you, usually.

But not to give you guys false hopes that the exam is really easy, I spent a lot of time doing the past year papers downloaded of www.soa.org. Also, in Fall 2004, there were approximately 15,000 people worldwide sitting for the exam. (I estimated this based on my examination number, I registered at almost the last moment and was number 14xxx. Can't remember offhand) Looking at the results on www.soa.org, about 1700 people passed. This is a pass/fail test.

Many insurance companies have already come recruiting for summer internships in my school, and they all say the same thing, take one exam, the first exam, that's all you need to apply for a job, because experience is most important. In fact, you don't even need a BSc Actuarial Science to get a job. Many people taking the exam were not even college students, most are working adults looking for better career opportunities. However for an actuary, the more exams you passed, the higher your pay. Therefore these companies want you to pass only one exam, so they can train you cheaply. I was told to pass at least three exams before I graduate by a fellow senior.

I'm not sure about what the criteria is for someone to be called an actuary. I think if you pass an exam, you are a student actuary. If you pass four exams, you are an associate, and if you pass seven exams you are a fellow actuary. And I think there are only seven exams for actuaries in America, not nine.

Finally, a last word on actuarial science, it remains a high-paying job for three reasons.
1. Most people say it's a dry course and a lot of people can't take it or finish exams. People who hate math shouldn't go near it.
2. Actuaries are professionals, much like engineers, accountants, lawyers and doctors. Insurance companies need certified actuaries to do their math even though a computer can do it.
3. It has been said that a degree in actuarial science is actually a fast-track to mid-management level. Just that to do your job as an actuary, you need to be in a position to know the internal workings of the company you are working for. In a couple of years, the number crunching would be done by new entrants into the job market, and you would be elevated to management level. That is the true virtue of the job. Of course a major in finance would help you too. :D

I have a friend in LSE, doing actuarial science, and apparently he has also passed all his level 100 courses in his first year. In England, there are about 15 exams to take. Though taking an actuarial course in LSE or City University would automatically exempt you in certain exams upon confering of degrees.

Any questions, email me, I am new to this forum, and won't be looking back on my post anytime soon. Also, if you're Malaysian, and somewhere in America, do contact me. I haven't met another Malaysian in NYU.

[DecentMerson]

Hi there... mine would be BSc. Actuarial Math

hey... u kidding me?? an active slacker.. how does that work?

And i do agree that at the end of the day, it still boils down to the professional papers and working experience...

and for the record, the first paper cost $100, and the 2nd paper cost $150 now...

and about paying for the exam, try asking ur Uni's Math department, or maybe better still, the Actuarial Club(if there's one) to look for sponsors... We don't have to pay for the exam here... thanks to our professors and math departments and actuarial club... (we just need to be a math major/ econs major , be a membership of the actuarial club, and hand in a copy of our resume)...

[RavenHawk]

Interesting, BSc. Actuarial Math? How does that work?

An active slacker is a person who actively slacks off and looks for ways to just slack, rather than just doing nothing.

What are your major requirements?

[Kite]

I'm a new member here.I know that a lot of members studying actuarial science in USA.Do anybody know about actuarial science in university of wisconsin madison?is it a good place for studying actuarial science?

[Destiny_Child]

yea,interesting!hey i actually planned to apply 4 actuarial science 4 my jpa...but afterdoing some research, hehe i changed my mind.its a bit too tough for me i guess. it involves lotsa heavy mathematics...as in the really really heavy ones! plus, i heard those taking this course r actually NOT ALLOWED to use calculator to count!(how true is this?-im not sure tho).well, basically its all about MATHS......from my past experiences, maths is definitely the easiet subject....can easily score full(btw, im a form5 leaver), but i guess the maths tht actuarial students learn is surely not dat easy...since the minimum salary they earn in our country is about rm40K 8O
haha...yea...n if u fail da test,its like becoming a lawyer widout license!
ok..im not trying to scare those who r interested, but its just my personal opinion tho. maybe after struggling in ur clg or U life, u'll bcome a millionaire in yrs to cum!(dats only IF u pass the exams!haha)but as 4 me., its too risky man!
i dun wanna suffer~ehhehe
so those who is really into this course n maths thingy, just go 4 it!
:wink: :wink: :wink:

[PJKru]

They do this course at City university and London school of Economics in Uk. I think its very very difficult to get into the latter but i no that they offer a foundation course at westminster kingsway college to enter city. City of course has the prestigious Cass Business school that offers some of the best undergraduate and especially postgraduate Business courses in the country. What they dont offer is Accounting and finance. But they do offer Economics and Accountancy.

[Randomphantom]

Well it isn't really about maths in the pure maths conventional sense, rather its more like statistics applied in the field of insurance. I think those pure math degrees are even more chim then actuarial math. The even chimmer maths would be those on the finance side. But I digress. The tough part should be when it comes down to the nitty gritty details of the insurance industry.

btw, thats quite a feat in itself, passing all 100 level papers in one year! I was wondering whether I should take the exams or gain an exemption instead, as my course offers exemptions for the 100 level papers. How do I go about taking the exams, eg the sep 2005 one? And if so, are there any structured paths through the various papers? It looks quite expensive to take though, so I'm weighing my options. My question is, whether is it worth it to take the exam when one could hope for an exemption at the end? (I'm assuming my college doesn't offer sponsorship for exams though...)

[RavenHawk]

If you just want to try, then sit for the exams yourself. It's just for fun and the challenge of it all.

Otherwise just wait for the exemption, unless you have plans for a summer internship in some insurance firm or something more.

[Randomphantom]

Haha, fun? :). I think I'll take them then, based on what modules that I have already taken/am preparing for. That way it would be more of a natural progression for me.

I've heard that some employers don't like students to be fully exempted or passed though -as they don't want to give a large pay packet to a new grad (as pay is scaled on the number of exams passed/exempted). And for exemptions, pay rate is lower compared to passes, so having too many exemptions isn't that recommended too. This is in kiasu land Singapore though, don't know whether it applies elsewhere.

[Ixora]

i read through a book which contains some info about actuarial science, and it is said that we have to learn economics and accountancy.

Is it more to business?
:?:
p/s: sorry for my lack-of-info... :oops:

[jun]

ixora, actuarial science is the application of financial concepts associated mainly with demography to real world problems. exp. studying past mortality rates to estimate future mortality rates.

actuarial science is mostly about maths. but it is also about statistics, econs, finance, a bit of accounts. it is basically applying maths and the others to solve business and financial problems.

you will work in a business & financial environment. so since you have to explain what you know to non-technical people you will need good business skills like the ability to communicate (oral&writen) fluently and making people understand what you are saying.

hope this helps. you can also visit some good websites.

www.actuaries.org.uk
www.actuaries.org.my
www.soa.org
www.beanactuary.org

[nutcrackers]

Hi guys,

I accidentally found this link when i was surfing the purple sofa and i am still thanking god for that :D . I had just finished form 5 and decided to take up actuarial science since i am really into maths ( i'd rather do heavy maths than memorising the names of cells and blood vessels :P ) and business. But i really need some advise. I guess I am a determined person, but since my parents and others had been telling me how HARD it is and blah blah blah..... ( get the picture?), I am not so sure of my choice anymore. They'd been telling me that Medicine is still the better choice and so on. But I really like challenging stuff and don't mind spending three hours figuring out a solution to a maths problem. Is it REALLY that hard? I can't think of other profession that i like besides this....... :(

I applied for the JPA scholarship, but now that I've read the posts here, I'd say that my confidence has deflated like a hot air ballon. ( All posts that i have come across are people who scored perfect A1s) Will it be hard to secure an Actuarial Science scholarship under JPA? I got 5A1s and 7A2s. What are my chances? Practically 0%? Plus the fact that i am not active in school. :( Now that i think of it, I think I'd rather take the adp courses offered locally, and then transfer to US. :?:

Would appreciate it if you guys could offer some advise. Thanks a ton!!!!

[jun]

nutcrackers, welcome!!!!

i understand your your problem. just like you, i also want to be an actuary. there's no denying it, the route to become an actuary is a very, very hard one. but if you are good in maths, have above average iq, can communicate properly, like problem solving, and most importantly, are willing to persevere than the future is bright.

to become an actuary, you dont have to do actuarial science. you can become an actuary by taking any bachelors degree, but it is better to take something like a degree in maths, statistics, econs, finance, engineering, accounts & etc. the most important is the professional exams.

but i must warn u, most people who take actuarial science fail to become full actuaries. but if you are really,really into it, then i would say go for it.

remember, you can take other degrees, not necessarily actuarial science to become an actuary. so you maybe can take a degree that your parents are ok with, and at the same time, begin your quest to be an actuary.

hope this helps.

[chenchow]

Yeah, fully agree with jun. To get a major in actuarial science is not too difficult, and the tougher part, as has been mentioned would be on the Professional Exams for Actuarial Science.

[nutcrackers]

Hey thanks,

I guess it cleared up my mind a little. I really appreciate it. You know, I kinda miss my Secondary school days when i don't have to worry much (yet) about my future. Now its like, :?: . "What should I do?" all the time. Arggh, growing up............. :cry:

[Ixora]

thanks a lot for the info, jun!

there's a problem now. I never get involved in business... :oops:

[jbboy88]

i've heard that some actuarians earned as much as rm30,000 per months....... :o more than some ceo's.... too bad it involves too much calculation....... your brain might explode duh :P

[DecentMerson]

i've heard that some actuarians earned as much as rm30,000 per months....... :o more than some ceo's.... too bad it involves too much calculation....... your brain might explode duh :P

yeah... actuary is a very high paying job... even a fresh graduate will earn about $40 k annually in the states....(that's pretty high.... and it goes higher along with the number of professional papers u passed)

[digimushu]

i've heard that some actuarians earned as much as rm30,000 per months....... :o more than some ceo's.... too bad it involves too much calculation....... your brain might explode duh :P

that is if u are an actuary. How many time do i have to repeat this, having an actuarial science degree does not automagically qualify you as an actuary. There is actually exams that decides that.

[jbboy88]

i've heard that some actuarians earned as much as rm30,000 per months....... :o more than some ceo's.... too bad it involves too much calculation....... your brain might explode duh :P

that is if u are an actuary. How many time do i have to repeat this, having an actuarial science degree does not automagically qualify you as an actuary. There is actually exams that decides that.

c'mon man.... i know that..... the more exams you passed, the more money you will get...... an actuarian who failed the exam is like a lawyer @<hidden> doctor who didn't have a license......

[lolilo]

i've heard that some actuarians earned as much as rm30,000 per months....... :o more than some ceo's.... too bad it involves too much calculation....... your brain might explode duh :P

that is if u are an actuary. How many time do i have to repeat this, having an actuarial science degree does not automagically qualify you as an actuary. There is actually exams that decides that.

c'mon man.... i know that..... the more exams you passed, the more money you will get...... an actuarian who failed the exam is like a lawyer @<hidden> doctor who didn't have a license......

weird analogy. IMHO, a doc who doesn't have a license couldnt even have a job, but if an actuarial science grad who cant pass a certain amount of exam can still branch into other fields.....

[jbboy88]

i've heard that some actuarians earned as much as rm30,000 per months....... :o more than some ceo's.... too bad it involves too much calculation....... your brain might explode duh :P

that is if u are an actuary. How many time do i have to repeat this, having an actuarial science degree does not automagically qualify you as an actuary. There is actually exams that decides that.

c'mon man.... i know that..... the more exams you passed, the more money you will get...... an actuarian who failed the exam is like a lawyer @<hidden> doctor who didn't have a license......

weird analogy. IMHO, a doc who doesn't have a license couldnt even have a job, but if an actuarial science grad who cant pass a certain amount of exam can still branch into other fields.....

who said so? he can be a bomoh for sure.... :lol:

[lolilo]

who said so? he can be a bomoh for sure....

my gosh.... can u be serious?

[succubus]

My aunt and her colleague studied actuarial science in college. Don't know whether this is true - but what i heard from them is this : on the long run it's easier to study actuarial science in the UK (under the UK board) than in australia. Then you will be exempted for many papers if you take certain courses in uni or something like that in the UK.
The papers you will have to pass under the Australian board are supposedly getting harder (ie. it'll be harder to qualify under the Aus board) - My aunt's colleague should know. SHe studied in Melbourne U and took exams under the Australian board. She has a few papers left to do but she switched to the UK board (it's possible to do that) So now she's kinda like having a good time studying and working in the UK.
My aunt did her actuarial science degree in the USA. According to her, dilligence and discipline pays off if you want to be in this profession. You don't have to be a math whiz but if you do all your 'homework' and studying you should be able to pass the exams.
Hope this helps.

[jun]

hei guys,

can i know what are the universities in the us that offers actuarial science? which one jpa sends students to?

also, actuarial science is a 4 year course right? correct me if i'm wrong.

what will you learn in the course? i know generally it is maths, statistics, econs, finance and a bit of business. but specificly what topics in maths?

[DecentMerson]

hei guys,

can i know what are the universities in the us that offers actuarial science? which one jpa sends students to?

also, actuarial science is a 4 year course right? correct me if i'm wrong.

what will you learn in the course? i know generally it is maths, statistics, econs, finance and a bit of business. but specificly what topics in maths?

there are hell lot of unis in the States that offer actuarial science... but JPA only send students to UPenn, U of Michigan at Ann Arbor, UIUC, Uni of Wisconsin, Purdue, and Penn State....

it can be 3 years... depends how fast u want to take ur courses and all... but at most 4 years....

Each uni has their own courses for actuarial science concentration.... so, go to their respective webpage to look at the list of courses...

for University of Michigan, this is the link to the list of courses that u shld take... http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/undergrad/actuarial.shtml

[windy_city]

Well, actually you do not need an actuarial science degree to work in an insurance company or to become an actuary. My friend just got hired by All State Insurance bout 6 months ago (All State is a big insurance firm in USA, a Fortune 50 company). The company offers him 2000USD bonus for every actuary exam he passed. Well, he is a math and econ major and now he is doing actuary stuff. So for those of you out there who want to be an actuary but still have certain doubt about this career path, dun worry, study some math and econ courses for your undergrad degree and then you can decide whether you want to be an actuary or not after you graduated. And hei, it is nice to get a 2000USD incentive to pass an exam too: D

[DecentMerson]

Well, actually you do not need an actuarial science degree to work in an insurance company or to become an actuary. My friend just got hired by All State Insurance bout 6 months ago (All State is a big insurance firm in USA, a Fortune 50 company). The company offers him 2000USD bonus for every actuary exam he passed. Well, he is a math and econ major and now he is doing actuary stuff. So for those of you out there who want to be an actuary but still have certain doubt about this career path, dun worry, study some math and econ courses for your undergrad degree and then you can decide whether you want to be an actuary or not after you graduated. And hei, it is nice to get a 2000USD incentive to pass an exam too: D

not a bad idea... but i think it would be better if u passed the papers and get a higher pay right from the start... coz anybody can sit for the exam, and it is not too expensive...(quite expensive... but not too expensive... the first paper is USD$100, second paper is USD$150....

[windy_city]

not a bad idea... but i think it would be better if u passed the papers and get a higher pay right from the start... coz anybody can sit for the exam, and it is not too expensive...(quite expensive... but not too expensive... the first paper is USD$100, second paper is USD$150....

Well, maybe you are not clear about the market outside. You get almost the same pay as an undergrad when you first get into a company. Whether you have passed the exam or not, without experience or a more advance degree, do not even dream of getting a higher starting salary than others.

[jun]

thanks decentmerson and windy_city. u guys helped me alot.

[jun]

guys, how many scholars did jpa sponsor for actuarial science last year?

will there be an increase in the number of actuarial science scholars this year?

thxs.

[jun]

can i ask what are the roles of actuaries in the gov?

what is the starting salary in malaysia(gov&private) of people who got a Bsc in actuarial science ?

please reply asap please. i really appreciate it. thanks

[DecentMerson]

guys, how many scholars did jpa sponsor for actuarial science last year?

will there be an increase in the number of actuarial science scholars this year?

thxs.

i don't know about last year... but for ATU 10...SPM 2002 batch, i think about 30 of us offering actuarial science...

and i don't think the number will increase... becoz some engineering students change their major to actuarial science half way through, so, i don't think JPA wants so many actuarial science students.

[qy]

Thirty? Tough competition ahead man. :roll: Especially now that this whole actuarial science=big bucks thing seems to be a widespread mentality.

[js]

the actuarial exams are known to be notoriously difficult. 400 hours of study time is recommmended for each exam (to learn all the material from scratch).

recently, SOA (society of actuaries) and CAS (casualty actuarial society) have changed their education system ie syllabus has changed.

Exam P - probability (calculus is no longer tested)
Exam FM - financial mathematics (microecons, macroecons and
corporate finance are no longer tested)
Exam M - Actuarial Modelling (life contingencies, probability, risk and ruin theory, and simulation)
Exam C - Calibration of Actuarial Models (parametric distributions, loss models and etc.)

these 4 are the preliminary actuarial exams.. exams P, FM and C are all the same for both SOA and CAS.. as for exam M, CAS has a different exam that focuses more on statistics instead of life contingencies... however, if you were to take SOA's exam M, CAS will give you credit for it..

from exam 5 onwards, you'll have to choose between SOA and CAS.. SOA has 8 exams until you get full fellowship while CAS has 9. the usual travel time (time until completion of all exams) is 10-15 years, so expect to study alot even when you're working..

SOA mainly focuses on life insurance, pensions, annuities, healthcare, and finance.. while CAS focuses on property/casualty actuarial science... currently, there isn't any market for casualty actuaries in malaysia, but that could possibly change..

traditional actuarial work (pricing and reserving) are slowly giving way for the cutting edge work.. for SOA , there has been much development for finance, so remember to take lots of corporate finance courses in university.. those can come in really handy.. as for CAS, focus on statistical modelling...

moreover, more and more act sci graduates are being lured to wall street, to work in the investment field, as act sci graduates are usually strong in quantitative skills..

as for places to study actuarial science, consider university of waterloo in canada as well.. it has (if i'm not mistaken) the largest actuarial science faculty in north america... also, with it's co-op program, you get to gain real world working experience... many malaysian act sci students are entering the life actuarial industry, which means that the market could possibly be overflooded. so consider going into property and casualty, despite the fact that there isn't much market (since it's not required by law for general insurance companies to have actuaries doing ratemaking and reserving work)

[liverpoolrockz]

what is the best uni to do acturial science in uk?

[Tab]

what is the best uni to do acturial science in uk?

there're not much unis offering actuarial science per se..
if you're going for name & prestige,(which is something very important in the business circles), then LSE is the place.
if you want exemptions from more professional papers, better faculty and faculty members who sit in the actuarial society of the UK, then City University, London is the place to be....

i'm not an 'expert' in actuarial science education, since I'm a medic :P
this is what i gather from my friends who are doing actuarial sc in these two schools.
so, correct me if i'm wrong (eh, then it would be my friends who studying act sci in these unis who are wrong! :D )

[Ixora]

I wish to know, after graduating from uni under actuarial science, what job can we do in the government department (during the bond)?

[Anthony]

Does anybody have the ranking for actuarial science in US.
I heard Uni of Michigan is second...
i heard of Herriot watt in UK
so is UK or US better???
juz wondering....

[js]

university of pennsylvania is really good for actuarial science. unfortunately it's also extremely expensive. tuition fee is about $30,000 USD per academic year. the program is administered under the wharton school of business, a highly prestigious business school in the states, on par with schools like MIT's sloan school of management.

[Avninva]

can somebody "well-informed" let me know about the prospects of actuarial science in malaysia?

i want to know where are the courses available in malaysia or overseas? any twinning programmes available? what local universities or private colleges in malaysia offer actuarial science?

is it possible to do a double degree for actuarial science + business or ac sc + economics? if yes, where can this be done?

is it possible to go for the course after STPM even if one's results are not so excellent? as in no As at all? what are the minimum requirements?

how many years to graduate in actuary and be able work in an insurance company?

any links for me to get further information?

thank you so much.

[elemneon]

Currently, I'm finishing my A-levels this June. I have already decided to study actuarial science. I've looked around for courses and unis but I still need a little advice to be sure. I'll be going for NS this July till end Sept so any courses that starts in September is out of the question.

UK is way out of my league in terms of financial means not to mention the time factor. What remains is Australia, US or Canada. I'm aware that it is more beneficial to take the entire course overseas than to do it half here and half overseas. I think there's no twinning programs in Malaysia for this. The closest to it is the American Degree Program where your credit will be transferred later on.

1. ADP program: which college in M'sia other than HELP, INTI and Taylors is good and reliable?

2. UKM and UITM have actuarial program but do you have to be a STPM leaver?

3. When are the datelines for applications to the US, Aus and Canada and when does the actual semesters start? Also need info on financial aids and scholarships.

4. Can someone recommend any good unis with a high chance of getting financial aid? It costs a lot to even apply to the unis so I'm trying to shorten my list of which uni to apply to.

5. My results so far have been quite good. I'm quite active in extra-curricular activities. I'm wondering if I should take the English exams: IELTS & TOEFL.

6. I've tried JPA(SPM 2003). Didn't even get called up. Is it true that if you're underage (since I'm first batch of PTS) that you aren't qualified as there are ppl with lesser results who got called. I wasn't even in the list for STPM. Can you apply with A-Levels?

I thank anyone who would be able to help me with my queries.

[nick]

University of Texas at Austin has a pretty good actuarial math program from what i gather. and it's pretty cheap too.
what i would actually suggest is doing math/applied math and economics undergrad, taking as many advanced courses as u can, then if u're really interested in actuarial math, you can get a masters in financial math or actuarial math, or you'll have the mathematical tools to take the exams yourself. i think it's much better to take advanced math classes such as stochastic calculus, real analysis etc. as an undergrad as these classes prepare you for a wide variety of fields instead of giving you specific tools in a discipline that you don't know if you even like yet.

[Grateful]

hi, i'm interested in pursuing a degree of Actuarial Science via the 2+2 adp program.however, i need financial aids desperately as my family couldnt afford to send me overseas.i would like to ask: :?:

1. which university in US offer the most Scholarship?are they partial of full scholarship?

2. are there any loans which i could borrow?

3. regarding the PTPTN loan, are they only for local university studies?

thanks in advance........ :D

[adriano]

hey i've registered for the A-Levels programme and i'm interested to pursue an actuarial degree later on. i'm planning to take up four subjects which are maths, further maths, economics, and accounts but i've heard that physics is important too. what do u guys out there think?

[js]

i don't think physics is important. take some finance related alevel course. that should be more beneficial

[iniquitoussoul]

Hie every1, I was browsing through the internet and I came upon this forum discussing actuarial science. I'm currently in my final year of the actuarial science degree in City University, London.
One of the reasons that I chose to be in this university was that (apparently) it is one of the better ones for this course. Another reason being the scholarship that they awarded Malaysian students. If you meet the conditions, they give you 2000GBP/2500GBP discount off the tuition fees (for academic year 2004/05, new intake is about 9000GBP). As long as you keep up the good work, you keep the scholarship.
In the first year, you'll learn Calculus, Economics, Maths, Prob. and Stat., Financial Maths, Programming. In the 2nd year, you'll get more serious stuff, Fundamentals of Actuarial Maths, Financial Economics, Stochastic Modelling etc... . In the final year, you have Actuarial Maths. , Stochastic and Probabilistic Modelling for insurance, Risk Management... My batch was the last batch using the old system. In my batch, we have 9 exemption papers in total. The new system has 8. (You can call yourself an actuary only if you have passed the professional papers. The exemptions just help you get pass the 1st step)
In this course, we have never-ending courseworks to do. The courseworks count towards your year-end final exam average (about 20%). The lecturers are not too bad. There are, of course, really good ones, and really crappy ones. One plus-point of the course is the option of doing a sandwich-year i.e. taking a work placement or studying abroad in other countries. Many students try to take the work placement. The sandwich-year occurs after the 2nd year. I've also observed that the number of students each year decreases.
There are actually many Malaysian students taking the course in City Uni. If I'm not mistaken, there is at least 22 Malaysians in the current 1st year (I think there are 1 or 2 BNM scholars).
In my opinion, if you have further maths and economics background, it would certainly help alot. The course wasn't easy for me, I had a great first year, good second year, and am now battling the last 10 days of my uni life. We have a very SHORT academic term. We start end of Sept and finish end of May.
Oh, and if you're browsing through City Uni's prospectus and if they say that actuarial science students have classes in Cass Business School, don't believe it. I've been here 3 years, and we've only had lessons there for 1 term and it was only 2 hours a week. (Maybe for the newer batches...) FYI, Cass Business School is where the Faculty of Actuarial Science and Statistics is. It's a brand new building (completed sometime end of 2002) 20 minutes walk from the main building.
Hope that the "info" helps.
Regards,
iniqs

[RavenHawk]

Face it, we're into actuarial science for the money. If picking up garbage earns us RM8,000 a month, I'll be first in line. On the subject of salaries and stuff, here's what I think I know so far. The average graduate earns about USD50,000 after graduating, without exams and with a degree in Actuarial Science. Wharton graduates earn about USD70,000 a year after graduating. I think my numbers are based on what they pay you at Wall Street, so might differ a bit from other places. Management consultants earn about USD40-60k with bonuses. Investment analysts earn about USD80-100k with bonuses. General surgeons earn USD200k but the hours are definitely lousy. And takes twice as long as any other course.

Getting into Wharton is tough. That's all I gotta say.

Finally, after going through all that crap about choosing a college and stuff, ranking isn't important. Not one bit, not at all, and no one in America gives a rats ass about ranking. They choose their colleges based on the amount of aid they are given, proximity to home and where their friends are going. Or they just want to live in a different city. Rankings will always differ. However, if you guys are persistent, just get the magazine for the top colleges of 2005. I think there's such a magazine for top US colleges.

I sat for the Exam P. Was okay I suppose. Though I passed, I didn't do fantastically well. Though I did learn I was suppose to take a course "Introduction To The Theory of Probability" which I am taking next semester. By the way, I'm heading back to Malaysia soon, so if you guys feel like hiring a tutor... I'm available. All I need is a plane ticket, a place to stay and food.

Double degrees or double majors in America are more than possible.

The youngest full fledged actuary I ever met was 24. Math genius, don't compare. Another old Malaysian guy I met working in Singapore was 27. You need at least a few years job experience to do later exams.

Job prospects, I met an alumni who took a course in risk analysis and management before it was known as actuarial science. He was working as the head of remunerations and benefits of Shell, stationed in Holland, and drives a Ferrari Masserati. What got him to that position was his ability to write good reports. That's what he said. After he graduated, he did some statistical work, which got him a job at a consulting company, and he just made it. In the world of business, what matters is your presentation skills.

I was also encouraged to go into consulting. I suppose that is another huge area to explore.

Application deadlines is usually in January to February. Expect replies by April or May. If you have taken A-levels, don't think it is needed, but better call the college to ask.

As for financial aid, try Bucknell. My friend is there on full financial aid. Need good extra-curricular activities. Though Princeton, Harvard and Yale have this thing where they waive tuition fees for students whose family's combined income is less than USD40,000. They don't offer actuarial science however, but who hasn't heard of Harvard Business School? Btw, Harvard did get 17 billion in donations, or so I heard.

For A-levels, Further Maths and Econs is good. You'd be exempted from certain courses in American colleges. Calculus 1, Calculus 2, Macroeconomics, Microeconomics and Basic Statistics. Approximately 20 credits, which is 1.25 semester's of work.

Email me with questions.

DecentMeerson!! My college is a <expletive> <expletive> <explitive> and <explitive>!!! The actuarial society is not sponsoring me for any exam whatsoever. I'm on my own. Bah. Just hope I get a good internship. Btw, you getting one? I hear Aetna is hiring.

[RavenHawk]

Addendum.

Pay is factored by the number of exams you passed. New York Life said they prefer that we have only one exam passed at most. Coz it is cheaper to hire and train people. Having 3 exams and no work experience might count against you especially since you would want a higher pay.

[bush]

Why is everybody crazy about actuarial science?.........honestly speaking, actuarial science has become so popular these few years......hardly anyone spoke about it, IT was a big hit then.......

I do believe that not everybody has the ability to do actuarial science.......especiallly if u do not see the beauty of statistics........

[Babikia]

. Honestly lar...people who study act sci are just interested in earning a lot of money only. But you think money just fall from the sky?

Many people think they're damn smart and can be an actuary because they got a 1A for SPM Add Maths. C'mon man, SPM is a joke!! It's like pre-school!!! So stop wasting your time trying to get rich by being an actuary. There are other ways to get money, such as trafficking drugs in Brazil.

And there's no such thing as wanting to study actuarial science because you're interested in statistics and insurance. Everyone knows this is not true.

Moderator Action: Vulgar word edited. Please refrain from using vulgarity. .

[lyzzy]

Actuarial science is f***ing boring. Honestly lar...people who study act sci are just interested in earning a lot of money only. But you think money just fall from the sky? You work and study like shit and you'll never have time to spend those f***ing $$$.

Many people think they're damn smart and can be an actuary because they got a 1A for SPM Add Maths. C'mon man, SPM is a joke!! It's like pre-school!!! So stop wasting your time trying to get rich by being an actuary. There are other ways to get money, such as trafficking drugs in Brazil.

And there's no such thing as wanting to study actuarial science because you're interested in statistics and insurance. Everyone knows this is not true.

Hmmm.. there's something about babikia's posts so far that makes it really funny (for me, at least) ... because it's the truth, expressed in a less PC way. Perhaps it's not entirely true, but definitely, some elements of truth ring in it.

Before anyone makes defensive comments, I would like to ask you as to why you are defensive in the first place - perhaps you know deep down in your heart that there is some truth in this after all?
________
vapir oxygen (http://oxygenvaporizer.com)

[Babikia]

actuarial science.....

[Babikia]

Moderator Action: Vulgar word edited. Please refrain from using vulgarity. .

[byzhanii_bogn]

Actuarial science is f***ing boring. Honestly lar...people who study act sci are just interested in earning a lot of money only. But you think money just fall from the sky? You work and study like shit and you'll never have time to spend those f***ing $$$.

Many people think they're damn smart and can be an actuary because they got a 1A for SPM Add Maths. C'mon man, SPM is a joke!! It's like pre-school!!! So stop wasting your time trying to get rich by being an actuary. There are other ways to get money, such as trafficking drugs in Brazil.

And there's no such thing as wanting to study actuarial science because you're interested in statistics and insurance. Everyone knows this is not true.

dude, what is your problem??? do discuss with manners here. if you're trying to condemn those who want to go into actuary, think twice. it's them who want to go for it, not you. what do you care??

[Babikia]

Honestly lar...people who study act sci are just interested in earning a lot of money only. But you think money just fall from the sky?
Many people think they're damn smart and can be an actuary because they got a 1A for SPM Add Maths. C'mon man, SPM is a joke!! It's like pre-school!!! So stop wasting your time trying to get rich by being an actuary. There are other ways to get money, such as trafficking drugs in Brazil.

And there's no such thing as wanting to study actuarial science because you're interested in statistics and insurance. Everyone knows this is not true.

dude, what is your problem??? do discuss with manners here. if you're trying to condemn those who want to go into actuary, think twice. it's them who want to go for it, not you. what do you care??

Moderator Action: Vulgar word edited. Please refrain from using vulgarity. .

[byzhanii_bogn]

Actuarial science is f***ing boring. Honestly lar...people who study act sci are just interested in earning a lot of money only. But you think money just fall from the sky? You work and study like shit and you'll never have time to spend those f***ing $$$.

Many people think they're damn smart and can be an actuary because they got a 1A for SPM Add Maths. C'mon man, SPM is a joke!! It's like pre-school!!! So stop wasting your time trying to get rich by being an actuary. There are other ways to get money, such as trafficking drugs in Brazil.

And there's no such thing as wanting to study actuarial science because you're interested in statistics and insurance. Everyone knows this is not true.

dude, what is your problem??? do discuss with manners here. if you're trying to condemn those who want to go into actuary, think twice. it's them who want to go for it, not you. what do you care??

shut da f*** up. suck a big one.

i didn't sound too rude am i? i'm sorry if i do. but being thrown those word really hurts.

have a nice day babikia

[RavenHawk]

I don't diss your profession of being a moron, and you don't diss mine. Frankly I don't know how much effort you put into sounding ignorant and stupid, but I worked hard for what I want, I've gotten more than just an A1 for Add Maths and I like maths. If having an honest decent job isn't enough for you, perhaps you should be in some other forum besides Education.

[youngyew]

Don't feel offended by him or her. You know, internet troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)... Ignore him and he will look somewhere else for source of entertainment and attention.

[fiza]

babikia..wanna ask u one thing?why did u choose nickname babikia?don't u realise that it sounds BABI+kia..well that suits ur personality...well,everybody knows rite?

[Babikia]

lol....you guys are fun.

actuarial science still sucks!!! hahahahahah

[Babikia]

babikia..wanna ask u one thing?why did u choose nickname babikia?don't u realise that it sounds BABI+kia..well that suits ur personality...well,everybody knows rite?

That's EXACTLY why I use this nick, and I need to live up to this character. Duh...common sense ler....

[DecentMerson]

babikia..wanna ask u one thing?why did u choose nickname babikia?don't u realise that it sounds BABI+kia..well that suits ur personality...well,everybody knows rite?

That's EXACTLY why I use this nick, and I need to live up to this character. Duh...common sense ler....

wow... wonder what's ur real name? and are u living up to it?

common sense? i think u need it more than anyone else

[gohweihan]

babikia..wanna ask u one thing?why did u choose nickname babikia?don't u realise that it sounds BABI+kia..well that suits ur personality...well,everybody knows rite?

That's EXACTLY why I use this nick, and I need to live up to this character. Duh...common sense ler....

One word says it all - immature.

[byzhanii_bogn]

*claps claps* can;t we just block the creature or anything? :lol:

[Babikia]

You kids have no idea who i am, where i come from....and say whatever you like, I am not the one making naive assumptions based on what i see on the internet. lol Moderator Action: Vulgar word edited. Please refrain from using vulgarity. . Besides, aren't you kids suppose to be studying instead of yacking away here? Go get yourselves laid....you'll feel happier, trust me

[kulio]

hey babikia... ur right... we dun noe hu u r... r u mentally sound? man u dun noe hu u messin with...

sorry for the language guys...

Moderator Action: Vulgar word edited. Please refrain from using vulgarity. .

[lolilo]

8O

seriouly guys, this is not funny. at all. it's sickening.

mods, care to edit those posts above?

[bp_ffei]

I don't get Babikia's hatred for people studying Actuarial Science. I've met this friend who really, really is into Actuarial Science and he scored A for Singapore A-level Maths, Further Maths and a distinction in Maths Special Paper. Loves statistics a lot. And his passion for that lead him naturally to Actuarial Science.

Let's say there's this person who loves statistics and physics equally. He realises that he may earn more as a actuary so he goes for Acturial Science. Is that sinful??

Earning money through methods such as " trafficking drugs in Brazil" is (duh) illegal. Some people just wanna earn lots of money legally. Do you hate them because they're rich? Really don't get you man... Put on your rational thinking cap before you post.

[lowch1]

Currently, I'm finishing my A-levels this June. I have already decided to study actuarial science. I've looked around for courses and unis but I still need a little advice to be sure. I'll be going for NS this July till end Sept so any courses that starts in September is out of the question.

UK is way out of my league in terms of financial means not to mention the time factor. What remains is Australia, US or Canada. I'm aware that it is more beneficial to take the entire course overseas than to do it half here and half overseas. I think there's no twinning programs in Malaysia for this. The closest to it is the American Degree Program where your credit will be transferred later on.

2. UKM and UITM have actuarial program but do you have to be a STPM leaver?

I thank anyone who would be able to help me with my queries.

I'm new to this forum and stumbled upon this post. I don't know if this one has already been answered in other thread (as I can't read each and everyone of them :D ). Let's see... For UiTM you MUST be a Bumiputra (I still hate the MARA thing). If you are a Bumi, you can either go into their Diploma using SPM results or Degree course using STPM results. For UKM and UM I don't think they offer Diploma, so I think you have to be STPM leaver.

As from myself, I'm financially unable to go overseas, is there any convertable loan available for overseas studies?

And I heard that UM is actually using Malay as the medium of intruction (yikes!!). Anyone who can clarify this one?

[windy_city]

Face it, we're into actuarial science for the money. If picking up garbage earns us RM8,000 a month, I'll be first in line. On the subject of salaries and stuff, here's what I think I know so far. The average graduate earns about USD50,000 after graduating, without exams and with a degree in Actuarial Science. Wharton graduates earn about USD70,000 a year after graduating. I think my numbers are based on what they pay you at Wall Street, so might differ a bit from other places. Management consultants earn about USD40-60k with bonuses. Investment analysts earn about USD80-100k with bonuses. General surgeons earn USD200k but the hours are definitely lousy. And takes twice as long as any other course.

Getting into Wharton is tough. That's all I gotta say.

Finally, after going through all that crap about choosing a college and stuff, ranking isn't important. Not one bit, not at all, and no one in America gives a rats ass about ranking. They choose their colleges based on the amount of aid they are given, proximity to home and where their friends are going. Or they just want to live in a different city. Rankings will always differ. However, if you guys are persistent, just get the magazine for the top colleges of 2005. I think there's such a magazine for top US colleges.

I sat for the Exam P. Was okay I suppose. Though I passed, I didn't do fantastically well. Though I did learn I was suppose to take a course "Introduction To The Theory of Probability" which I am taking next semester. By the way, I'm heading back to Malaysia soon, so if you guys feel like hiring a tutor... I'm available. All I need is a plane ticket, a place to stay and food.

Double degrees or double majors in America are more than possible.

The youngest full fledged actuary I ever met was 24. Math genius, don't compare. Another old Malaysian guy I met working in Singapore was 27. You need at least a few years job experience to do later exams.

Job prospects, I met an alumni who took a course in risk analysis and management before it was known as actuarial science. He was working as the head of remunerations and benefits of Shell, stationed in Holland, and drives a Ferrari Masserati. What got him to that position was his ability to write good reports. That's what he said. After he graduated, he did some statistical work, which got him a job at a consulting company, and he just made it. In the world of business, what matters is your presentation skills.

I was also encouraged to go into consulting. I suppose that is another huge area to explore.

Application deadlines is usually in January to February. Expect replies by April or May. If you have taken A-levels, don't think it is needed, but better call the college to ask.

As for financial aid, try Bucknell. My friend is there on full financial aid. Need good extra-curricular activities. Though Princeton, Harvard and Yale have this thing where they waive tuition fees for students whose family's combined income is less than USD40,000. They don't offer actuarial science however, but who hasn't heard of Harvard Business School? Btw, Harvard did get 17 billion in donations, or so I heard.

For A-levels, Further Maths and Econs is good. You'd be exempted from certain courses in American colleges. Calculus 1, Calculus 2, Macroeconomics, Microeconomics and Basic Statistics. Approximately 20 credits, which is 1.25 semester's of work.

Email me with questions.

DecentMeerson!! My college is a <expletive> <expletive> <explitive> and <explitive>!!! The actuarial society is not sponsoring me for any exam whatsoever. I'm on my own. Bah. Just hope I get a good internship. Btw, you getting one? I hear Aetna is hiring.

Wharton graduates earn about USD70,000 a year after graduating??
Where do you get the info from?? Even Wharton school statistics said that the range of salary for their actuarial science graduates is 54k (max).

For those who think that actuarial science will earn you a lot of money, think again. Do not get influence by people or by money to get into this field. Do you own research, before you decide on anything.

Nowadays, people tend to paint a rosy picture on what the salary you can get after you graduate. Well, the truth is, you salary does not depend on what school you are from, it depend on what job you get. Wharton or not does not dictate whether you get 40k or 50k salary, it is you, your talent and your skills that determine how much you will earn. Sometimes, I realized that some Recomers have the notion that if they do well in their studies, money will start pouring in when they graduate. Well wakes up, this is definitely not the case. Even with 4.0, you might end up unemployed. (This is especially true if you are looking for a high paying job here with an international student visa (by here I mean US). But if you have 4.0, I think it is easier for you to go to academia) Well, I talked to the my friend who is a recruiters for a Fortune 500 Insurance Firm, and he mentioned that he was very impressed by those students with excellent grade (especially those grad students from China, with tones of technical skills and excellent grade, but, my friend would just put those resume into the paper shredder, those students have more than enough technical skills for the job, but lack people skills that are necessary to survive in the industry)

ChenChow always stresses that networking is important, and it is, you can even get a job offer from a company without even going through interview and submitting your resume if you manage to impress your future employer enough. Networking works in multinational company as well, if the partner of the company likes you, and deems that you are good enough for the company; you will get the job (without submitting resume or go through interview). All of this are not BS; I seen it happened before.

So for those who are still dreaming of getting a high paid job after you graduate with your 4.0, I think it is time for you to wake up.

The imagination may rock, but it is REALITY that rules!!! (Quote from Viewtru)

[fiza]

watch the apprentice-education is not important anymore lar...

[DecentMerson]

Face it, we're into actuarial science for the money. If picking up garbage earns us RM8,000 a month, I'll be first in line. On the subject of salaries and stuff, here's what I think I know so far.

DecentMeerson!! My college is a <expletive> <expletive> <explitive> and <explitive>!!! The actuarial society is not sponsoring me for any exam whatsoever. I'm on my own. Bah. Just hope I get a good internship. Btw, you getting one? I hear Aetna is hiring.

well... even if u are in for the money.... u need to have quite some interest in it, i believe. That's my opinion.

And, of course I think I should get a reasonable pay for my skill and knowledge (in the future). Just like you can drive a truck at Iraq. The pay is high, really high, and definitely those who are going to work there know the risk they are taking, and the high pay compensate for that. They are in for the money too.

I didn't apply to any internship. Well, for a freshie like me with no actuarial paper under my belt, not to mention an international student, virtually have no chance in securing any internship.

[DecentMerson]

watch the apprentice-education is not important anymore lar...

give me a break... it depends on what u want to be in ur future.

when they stay street smart vs book smart, it doesn't mean that the street smart receives no education watsoever, it's only that they didn't have a degree... Tana has had 3 years or college. and the reason she dropped out is not because of education is not important, it is because she wanted to have a family.

gtg... will elaborate more on this later....(will edit this post if u guys dun mind...)

[RavenHawk]

Wharton graduates earn about USD70,000 a year after graduating??
Where do you get the info from?? Even Wharton school statistics said that the range of salary for their actuarial science graduates is 54k (max).

Can't remember where I got it from, but I recall that Wharton graduates get a distinctly higher average pay than the rest. Maybe there's the issue of annual bonuses. It is usually quite significant. Investment bankers' huge salaries are mostly because of the annual bonuses they get if their companies do well. Some graduates from some colleges are more preferable than other graduates due to the stuff that is taught in the courses.

Networking helps, but you can't get anywhere with just the right people (this isn't Hollywood, and not everyone is Ashlee Simpson) but you also got to produce the right results. No one is going to recommend you for a job if they have no confidence in your abilities. How do you intend to impress your future employer without a 4.0 GPA and other credentials?

[windy_city]

Wharton graduates earn about USD70,000 a year after graduating??
Where do you get the info from?? Even Wharton school statistics said that the range of salary for their actuarial science graduates is 54k (max).

Can't remember where I got it from, but I recall that Wharton graduates get a distinctly higher average pay than the rest. Maybe there's the issue of annual bonuses. It is usually quite significant. Investment bankers' huge salaries are mostly because of the annual bonuses they get if their companies do well. Some graduates from some colleges are more preferable than other graduates due to the stuff that is taught in the courses.

Networking helps, but you can't get anywhere with just the right people (this isn't Hollywood, and not everyone is Ashlee Simpson) but you also got to produce the right results. No one is going to recommend you for a job if they have no confidence in your abilities. How do you intend to impress your future employer without a 4.0 GPA and other credentials?

Yup, agree that some companies like to recruit certain graduates from certain schools. If you add the bonus, yup, you are able to get 70K (quite possible I might add to other schools? graduates as well, it all depend on the companies)

You could get somewhere if you show that you are good candidate to your future employer. You dun need to be in Hollywood to make networking work. What differentiate you from others are not just grade, a lot of factors is taken into consideration when they are hiring. Remember, you are competing with many people to get the same job, and you are at a disadvantage (because of the visa), you need more than grade to get ahead. Again, 4.0 does not mean anything if you have no other credentials with you. A student with 4.0 but zero (or almost zero) in other activities (such as networking and extra-curricular activities) is worst than a student with 3.5 but with tones of networking.

Networking is not just about people recommending you a job, it also includes networking with company director who are able to offer you a job. Like I said, it is possible to get a job without even going through interview and submitting resume (hence, your future employer will not even know your CGPA in the first place). Well, you can ask recent Malaysian Wharton actuarial sciences graduates on what job they get, and you will get what I mean. Just be realistic and work hard (academically and in other activities as well), because it is definitely not easy for you to get a job even with a 4.0.
Although it is sweet to dream, the reality still rules.

[john_doe_85]

Whoa.. I step out for a few months and this topic turns 'colourful'..

IMHO - Networking is important esp for biz. BUT using your network to get a job often time questions the credibility of your work. Forgive me if I make a sweeping statement here but by far, everyone I know who have gotten jobs by networking produce terrible work. Let the market forces rule!

When did work started becoming about the money? Gosh! No wonder people change careers 7 times a life on average.. I guess I'm all alone here in the ideology of working for one's passion.. :?

[topdog]

When did work started becoming about the money? Gosh! No wonder people change careers 7 times a life on average.. I guess I'm all alone here in the ideology of working for one's passion.. :?
i think more often than not, people make a lot of money because they are passionate about their work, and work in something their passionate about.

you may work in a well-paying field but if you do not have the passion for it, you won't go far. how can you advance if you are indifferent about, or worse, hate your job?

[windy_city]

Whoa.. I step out for a few months and this topic turns 'colourful'..

IMHO - Networking is important esp for biz. BUT using your network to get a job often time questions the credibility of your work. Forgive me if I make a sweeping statement here but by far, everyone I know who have gotten jobs by networking produce terrible work. Let the market forces rule!

When did work started becoming about the money? Gosh! No wonder people change careers 7 times a life on average.. I guess I'm all alone here in the ideology of working for one's passion.. :?

Well, I did not mean that networking is everything. But you could definitely get somewhere with networking. A good networking with a good work ethic will definitely make you successful.

So far all those I-bankers, consultants I know who are getting huge pay check get there not just by being smart or hardworking, they get there by good networking skills too.

In US, networking is an integral part of your career search. You will be taught networking and you are expected to apply those skills to get a job. You will be unemployed if you let the market forces do their job, because other will utilize their networking skills to get ahead of you.

Well, the points I want to make here are: getting a good grade will not get you anywhere (in term of getting a high paying job), you need to have other abilities as well such as networking and leadership skills. There are many Recommers who have the notion that they will get a high paying job after they graduate with a good grade, and this is not the case.

I rest my case.

[Anthony]

to b honest , I am interested in act sc
50% is the money.
30% of interest in maths
5% coz i dun see the reason of memorising bio terms,
5% everyone's talking about it ( its the third popular thread in recom)
5% professionality and rare.....imagine being the few actuary...
5% I think i can do it.

but the real deal is if i get a scholarship for other subjects i would grab the subject.
Basically for many of us....its the scholarship that determines our career. more or less lar.
still im afraid to go into act. sc. is now vry common.....esp.amongst the str8A1s scorers belief me.....many of them aiming for it in JPA.

but still i hope JPA would grant me act. sc.Recomers pray for me.thx lots

[bush]

to b honest , I am interested in act sc
50% is the money.
30% of interest in maths
5% coz i dun see the reason of memorising bio terms,
5% everyone's talking about it ( its the third popular thread in recom)
5% professionality and rare.....imagine being the few actuary...
5% I think i can do it.

but the real deal is if i get a scholarship for other subjects i would grab the subject.
Basically for many of us....its the scholarship that determines our career. more or less lar.
still im afraid to go into act. sc. is now vry common.....esp.amongst the str8A1s scorers belief me.....many of them aiming for it in JPA.

but still i hope JPA would grant me act. sc.Recomers pray for me.thx lots

agreed with the bio terms...

[lowch1]

to b honest , I am interested in act sc
50% is the money.
30% of interest in maths
5% coz i dun see the reason of memorising bio terms,
5% everyone's talking about it ( its the third popular thread in recom)
5% professionality and rare.....imagine being the few actuary...
5% I think i can do it.

My weightage will be about the same as yours.

[Randomphantom]

I think more often that not, people choose the course of actuarial science because of the deal here: getting a paper cleared = pay raise. Its this clear effort-reward relationship that attracts those more academic-inclined (read: exam technic specialists). High CGPAs may just be a result of such inclinations. So I believe in the case of act. sci, passing papers matter more than college degrees.

However, I don't think that superb networking skills automatically translates into high pay for ANY new graduate in any profession. (Unless if you treat knowing people in high places as networking) The more evident relationship (at least, at the fresh grad level) would be college/uni prestige = good job + high pay.



I'll stick a quick question here for recommers: which would you think is a suitable major in addition to ActSci : accountancy, IT, finance or econs?

[cwteh87]

Hey fellow ReComers, I have some questions!!

From what I have read in previous posts, I gather that NTU is also offering actuarial science too, but its under Bachelor of Business. Does this mean that I graduate with a business degree with specialization in actuarial science?? Then, what is the difference with an actuarial science degree?? Difference just by the name?? I also gather that NTU has exemptions for this 100 series exam by IOA. Is IOA the one in UK? I found out that there is 200,300,400 series exam also. What are these? Prefessional papers for actuarial science? Then when do I become an associate or a fellow? Does Malaysia recognise this exemption? From the Malaysian Actuarial Society website, it says that IOA UK is recognised, how about this exemption by NTU? Sorry if I sound blur or stupid in any part, but I really dont understand some parts!!

N also, how long does it take to sit for these exams and pass them in order to be a qualified actuary? Can I sit for it again if I fail?

One more thing, when I checked the NTU website, it says that only Singapore-Cambridge GCE 'A' level holders or High School graduates can apply for their ASEAN undergrad scholarship. N I saw many other scholarships also requires Singapore-Cambridge GCE 'A' level. So if I were to take A Levels at HELP, which is London based, does it mean that I cannot apply for it? Do most Universities require Cambridge A Levels for entry? If so, what about London A Levels? Not qualified? Im sorry again if I sound stupid on any part..but I really dont understand this part..

Hopefully some experienced ReComers can throw some light into this matter! thx!

[bush]

Hey fellow ReComers, I have some questions!!

From what I have read in previous posts, I gather that NTU is also offering actuarial science too, but its under Bachelor of Business. Does this mean that I graduate with a business degree with specialization in actuarial science?? Then, what is the difference with an actuarial science degree?? Difference just by the name?? I also gather that NTU has exemptions for this 100 series exam by IOA. Is IOA the one in UK? I found out that there is 200,300,400 series exam also. What are these? Prefessional papers for actuarial science? Then when do I become an associate or a fellow? Does Malaysia recognise this exemption? From the Malaysian Actuarial Society website, it says that IOA UK is recognised, how about this exemption by NTU? Sorry if I sound blur or stupid in any part, but I really dont understand some parts!!

N also, how long does it take to sit for these exams and pass them in order to be a qualified actuary? Can I sit for it again if I fail?

One more thing, when I checked the NTU website, it says that only Singapore-Cambridge GCE 'A' level holders or High School graduates can apply for their ASEAN undergrad scholarship. N I saw many other scholarships also requires Singapore-Cambridge GCE 'A' level. So if I were to take A Levels at HELP, which is London based, does it mean that I cannot apply for it? Do most Universities require Cambridge A Levels for entry? If so, what about London A Levels? Not qualified? Im sorry again if I sound stupid on any part..but I really dont understand this part..

Hopefully some experienced ReComers can throw some light into this matter! thx!

i have no clue regarding ur first question.........

i suggest u read the through the admission page again, they accept A-levels from all boards.......They have different sections, like the one for singapore-cambridge, CIE, edexcel,OCR,AQA.........

[Randomphantom]

woah, slow down... :) I'll try my best to answer them.

Yes its a BBus with a specialisation in ActSci. There's not much of a difference, only in the order of the subjects maybe. Also, there's this quirk that there is a limited number of places (around 50) so the competition is high and you need to score in selected first year modules. The first year comprises of general Business modules like Accounting and Marketing. You'll do your specialisation in the 2nd & 3rd year. IMO there's less of a focus on maths initially, as most act sci degrees have calculus/linear algebra/some maths in the first year - however if u've done FM you'll likely have as sufficient grasp of math.

Yes its the UK one, check out website here (www.actuaries.org.uk). 200,300,400 are advanced level papers. From the site, To transfer to the class of Fellow, applicants must have all the relevant examinations or examination module passes, have completed a learning log showing the acquisition of work-based skills over a three year period and in the case of the Institute, must be 23 years of age. This site will answer many of your questions. Clearing certain modules offer a chance of exemptions from the UK actuarial papers.

You can apply for NTU's ASEAN undergrad scholarship upon admission, even if your A Levels is London based. From NTU's website, (http://www.ntu.edu.sg/OAD/Scholarships/asean.htm)Candidates offering international qualifications should have outstanding academic results and extra-curricular activities. Most universities regard all GCE A-levels (including STPM) as equivalent, you should check out with the university in question.

[liverpoolrockz]

hmm...do u hav to be really good in math n add math if u want to do actuarial science???what if i got A2 for my add math?can i still do a.science ur will it be too tough 4 me?n i'm confius whether to do acturial science ur accounting..so can anybody clear my mind about this

[bush]

hmm...do u hav to be really good in math n add math if u want to do actuarial science???what if i got A2 for my add math?can i still do a.science ur will it be too tough 4 me?n i'm confius whether to do acturial science ur accounting..so can anybody clear my mind about this

it is impossible to guage one's ability at this stage whether he or she has the potential or capability to do actuarial science........SPM add maths is peanuts.........

In most cases, people who want to do actuarial science will enrol themselves in a pre-u program, usually A-levels if they are intending to go overseas. If u can cope with the maths or the further maths, u might have the potential to do actuarial science.

The best thing for u to do now is to take up whatever subjects that are closely related to ur interest of study. Only after u have completed ur pre-u program, u would have a clearer picture of what u want to do.

[lowch1]

Take up either one of them. To be a qualified actuarist you need not to take a AcSc degree. It's just what people normally take. You can take Acc first and then sign up for actuarial exams later on. Or, you can go for a degree in AcSc first. Give it a try and if it's too difficult, you can change your mind (maybe have to pay a bit more tuition fees only).

[liverpoolrockz]

is it necessary to take further maths 4 AcSc?coz most probably i'm going 2 do foundation in science..n it doesn't include subject as futher maths..only hav the normal math

[bush]

is it necessary to take further maths 4 AcSc?coz most probably i'm going 2 do foundation in science..n it doesn't include subject as futher maths..only hav the normal math

foundation in science? from which college?......i strongly advise u to do a demanding pre-u course like A-levels,STPM or IB if u consider reading actuarial science later. It will help u in ur tertiary studies......

[liverpoolrockz]

foundation in science? from which college?............[/quote]


kdu

[bush]

foundation in science? from which college?............


kdu[/quote]

then i suppose it's a tailored course, isn't it?

we should realise that actuarial science is no simple thing, getting a degree in actuarial science does not make u a full-fledge actuarist.

Many if not all young aspiring actuarists take pre-u courses that are demanding, they tend to take further maths as one of the subjects, even by getting straight As here does not mean that they can sail through their university years. However they have an advantage, with their solid pre-u, they can apply to any university in the world to do actuarial science, including the best schools like waterloo,City University and macquarie. They can only do that because their pre-u program is recognised worldwide, and we have a few of these in malaysia; A-levels, IB, STPM etc....

By doing a tailored foundation, u are narrowing down ur choices of universities. Not all universities have good social science schools, actuarial science might have parts that are theoritical, but we must also note that it is heavily industrial based. No point graduating with all sorts of theories and being unable to apply them to real life situations or worse, unable to pass the professional papers..........

[liverpoolrockz]

ic..so r u suggesting that i should take Ib,a-level etc..?i'm not sure what do u mean by tailored course..but it is under UNSW

[bush]

ic..so r u suggesting that i should take Ib,a-level etc..?i'm not sure what do u mean by tailored course..but it is under UNSW

the foundation of UNSW is a tailored course, it prepares u for entry into UNSW. Other australian universities do recognise it, but u have to fulfill some other requirements.

By taking this course, u are eliminating ur choice of universities at an early stage. Do something solid, choose a course where the standard is assured. An A grade in this foundation might not necessary translate to an A in A-levels, after all, UNSW can change the grading system from year to year since it's their own program.

[Anthony]

anyone doing Actuarial science from US or UK or AUS plz add me in msn..I want to have a group of peers and seniors who are doing it so I can know what to expect..thx a lot.. Plz give my msn address to anyone who does actuarial science...

my msn sk8erdarrylAThotmailDOTcom

Mod: Email Address edited

[qtezt_gurlz]

allooo !!!...i want it too !!....any seniors here taking act.sc in Australia ??....add me oso...

qtezt_gurlzAThotmailDOTcom

Mod: Email Address edited

[qy]

And me too. (hope this isn't annoying :wink: ) quanyie[at]gmail[dot]com

[Grateful]

and me!!!!!haha.....though i'm not granted a scholarship by JPA, i'm now doing American degree program, majoring in Actuarial Science....hope to get as much info as i can bout the course and everything......thankz...
to seniors currently doing the course or have done the course and already working....please add me in msn....
tekhung2001ATyahooDOTcom thankz ya..... :D

[yuki]

Hi. I'm new here. I got the JPA scholarship to do actuarial science in Australia. So, any seniors, please add me too. I'm still quite blur about the course structure & exemption things... :wink: yokekeingAThotmailDOTcom

[DecentMerson]

i think it's still best for us to talk about it here...

I've tried that method before, and end up having to say the same thing umpteen times....

[jun]

hi guys.....

i'f got a few questions regarding AUSMAT and actuarial science in Australia.

1: what combination of subjects that jpa scholars majoring in
actuarial science have to take in AUSMAT(at sunway).?

2: what are the unis in australia that offer as.sc? i only know of
U.Melbourne & UNSW. are there others?

3: which are the unis in australia that offer as.sc that jpa
recognises/sends scholars to?

4: what is the percentile/cut off point/TER for students who want
to study as.sc in australia. i noe medic is 97++%, engineering is
89%......ac.sc?

5: which professional exams that students normally take on their
own at unis in australia? the australian one or SOA or IoA?

6: finally, is there any jpa scholars at australia at the moment
doing as.sc or any recommers? howcome only USA ones are here?

i noe the answers to these questions will interest all recommers interested in as.sc and all those who got as.sc australia in particular.

i hope someone out there has the answers to these questions. thxs very much for ur help................in advance.

peace.............

[girL-likE-mE]

hey,
i'm currently taking Cambridge A-Levels. i'm kinda interested in acturial science and is eager to know more bout it. approximately how long wud it takes? i'm taking a levels so do i still needa go 4 d foundation year? can sum1 kindly list out some of d universities out there which provide this course... thanx lotSs...

[DecentMerson]

hey,
i'm currently taking Cambridge A-Levels. i'm kinda interested in acturial science and is eager to know more bout it. approximately how long wud it takes? i'm taking a levels so do i still needa go 4 d foundation year? can sum1 kindly list out some of d universities out there which provide this course... thanx lotSs...

Sure.
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