How to save Malaysia?

[el_empty]

it seems to me that many of us here at recom have many bright ideas on how to make Malaysia a better place to be. and many of these ideas stem from our discontent with the current political system and climate. and since recom is an outlet for our rants and (politically sensitive sometimes?) opinions, i'd like to know what suggestions you have on getting these opinions heard, in a constructive and effective manner.

initial ideas:

1. how to link to other thinkers and connections within the system.
2. how to get the govt to hear us, and react positively.
3. how to reach a wider, less opinionated (young) audience, home and abroad. create awareness lah...
4. etc

i guess a short term goal would be to create awareness and debate, whereas a long term one would be to enact some action. do something good for your country. to be a mini-amatuer think-tank. ideas are useless if we don't do something about it.

i'd like to hear from you!

[topdog]

i guess a short term goal would be to create awareness and debate
before we even think of doing anything, we need to be very clear here. what kind of awareness do we want to create, and what do we want to debate about?

to see how far we have to go as a nation, take a look at these 2 letters to malaysiakini, one from a malay and another from a chinese.

mca must help chinese have more babies (http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/200404060036624.php)
our special rights must remain (http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/200404060036623.php)

[chenchow]

I would think that we could utilize this channel in ReCom to initiate some discussions on various issues concerning Malaysia, for instance, how to improve our country's delivery (reducing red tape) etc, and from time to time, when government is seeking input from public, they are doing so for the red tape, and we should submit our opinion.

We need to react fast, as all these issues come and get hot fast, and we need to get our thoughts out fast to get considered.

[ElansarGelmir]

First of all, let me say that I find it difficult to fathom the non-Malays opposition to Malay special rights and privileges considering that the number of rich non-Malays far outnumbers that of the Malays themselves.

Anyone has a more updated statistics to this argument?

[SpRInG]

i have a suggestion - to reduce red tape.

in my opinion, red tape is happenign so severly now is because of the low pay that civil servants receive.... go to any department, and i'm sure, everybody knows what is kopi o, or undertable, or wateer the term is being used.....

this proves how integrated is corruption in our society... n believe it or not, some officers even ask for this kopi-o, for a transaction to be done smoothly... if not, the smoothness of transaction may not be guaranteed....

so, i believe that this can be improved by paying civil servants a better pay, and reduce the size of civil service.... so that the government can cut cost at the same time....

[USSDefiantNX74205]

I have a dream my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. - Martin Luther King Jr, Lincoln Memorial, Washington, D.C., August 28, 1963


1. How to link to other thinkers and connections within the system

I'd say the web would be a great tool, considering that most of the younger generation (at least the ones with a sense of awareness) are plugged online. Recom is a good start, though if the ruling party finds out about us and our political discussions here, they'd probably issue press briefings condemning this site just like they did to Malaysiakini.

2. how to get the govt to hear us, and react positively.

This is a tough one, since the ruling party currently thinks highly of itself. Most of the time they don't really pay attention to the opinions of students. Maybe they think we're somewhat immature or callow, I don't know. Perhaps we should petition for a forum like this:
http://thestar.com.my/news/archives/story.asp?ppath=\2004\4\7&file=/2004/4/7/asia/7708445&sec=asia

3. how to reach a wider, less opinionated (young) audience, home and abroad. create awareness lah...

This one's another challenge, since most of our students are apathetic about these things. They must be made aware about their rights, politics, human rights...etc. Unfortunately, I don't think the ruling party would want that, in case people get too 'enlightened'. I'd say use the net again. It's the only way constructive debates and discussions could be held in Malaysia without the interference of any party or organization.

4. etc

On the long term - Establish a political party!

Sorry if I sound to radical or 'kutuk' the ruling party too much...ehehe :D

[morpheous]

el_empty,"how to save Malaysia?"
gee..can you please elaborate more what are the current problems or crisis, malaysia is facing...?thks.

[topdog]

OK, i've had enough of dancing around the issue. it's straight talk time. if some govt spy reads what i'm about to say and runs crying to umno, i say screw them.

i read this "open letter to tun dr. mahathir" (http://www26.brinkster.com/delidata/db/news/news_archive.asp?PagePosition=8) linked to by morpheous in this forum (http://ams.homelinux.org:8000/~bachok83/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=755&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=dca6a31e6177d8d48d3c0dc5dec66dad). i disagree with some of the writer's points, and find some of them extremely far fetched.

having said that, you can clearly feel his/her frustration.

i think the gist of that letter is "Malaysia is producing too many bureaucrats, managers and end-users, but not enough scientists, innovators, researchers, and thinkers." well, he/she blamed it all on mahathir but i don't see the point of doing that now, beyond letting off some (virtual) steam. mahathir is history.

as is the case with any facet of malaysian life, race inevitably comes into the picture. i feel before we can effectively tackle the issue of quality of higher education, we need to get this issue of race out of the way once and for all. (of course, i know that no one can just snap a finger and make everything fine and dandy, but we should all be aware of the path our country is taking. many people our age are either not aware, or choose not to be aware. we HAVE to be aware.)

a whole generation of malaysians has matured under the NEP. they and their offspring's lives have been affected by racial quotas of every imaginable kind - loans, cars, housing, university places, scholarships, civil service, government tenders, businesses. i agree that the NEP was needed to create a sizeable Malay middle class since the Malays were generally far behind the Chinese in the socioeconomic ladder at that time. this is no longer true. any umno guy that tells the non-bumis to count our blessings and points to the 1998 slaughter of chinese in indonesia as an example of what could happen if we even dare to bring up the issue of special rights, should shut up. are they calling themselves barbarians?

dividing ourselves according to race won't prevent another racial riot. in case anyone forgot, a racial riot DID happen in kampung medan (a squatter area) in 2001. that's THREE years ago. poor malays fought with poor indians. a few were killed. poverty does not recognize race.

i feel that the next big step in malaysia's maturation as a nation has got to start with our generation. enough of racial politics. enough of having race determine every national policy. enough of having race determine who gets to study where, who gets to study what, who gets this, who doesn't get that. we have to say, ENOUGH!

umno, mca and mic have got to go. ideally, i would like to see them disband and form a real alliance, a real "barisan nasional," without the racial politics. unfortunately, there are a lot of racists in the umno leadership. najib tun razak ("bathe the keris in chinese blood" - 1987) and hishamuddin tun hussein ("burn down the selangor chinese assembly hall" - suqiu incident, 1999), both former umno youth chiefs, are now seemingly in line to take over umno's helm. i'm sorry, with leaders like this, umno = racist to me. i did not mention mca because it is irrelevant. mca leaders have proven to be lackeys of umno, content with getting their share of the dirty pie and maintaing the status quo.

having said that, we must stop to ponder over the very real threat of pas. bn is corrupt, but i urge anyone who is considering supporting pas out of protest, to please analyze pas' mission properly. i'm sorry, but an islamic state a la saudi arabia does not belong in malaysia. i am not attacking islam, but any political party that aspires to set up its own government, secular or otherwise, concerns me, because i am a citizen of this country. if non-bumis feel that they are being treated unfairly now, wait till pas takes over and institutes islamic law a la saudi arabia. to my malay friends who take this as disrespect to islam, i only have this to say: if you are a fair-minded person, you will find that i am right.

i believe that malaysians are a peace-loving people. i am wary of pas and their ideology, but at the same time, i take comfort in the fact that they still participate in the democratic process to pursue their ambition, without resorting to armed conflict.

i pray that our generation will be the generation of "enlightened malaysians." people like __earth and nik nazmi (http://www.niknazmi.com) are the hope of our future.

[aquila]

Yay. topdog. well said! I really hope we can spearhead the change... unfortunately, there are still instances of racism and bigotry... even by sponsored students in the US. sigh!!! i really hope the msian kampungs here disband... just so that they will really start to see the world beyond their tiny circles of like-minded friends...

i only have one thing to say to them... be bolder and explore the world out there....

racism is a problem in the US... no one's denying it doesnt exist... well, at least they're talking/discussing about it and no one's caught for doing so...

i think ideally, JPA/MARA should send equal numbers of malays/chinese/indian to universities in the US or at least try to... when u're together as a small population in a foreign country... your differences will disappear... trust me, u'll see similarities with the other kid you've never seen before...

the narcissism of differences (what's done in msia unfortunately) was the reason why we had ww2 and 12 mil ppl were killed by racist Hitler and co. I think it's impt that we learn from that mistake in history...


btw, i'm damn surprised why msian kids are never taught abt the ppl who were killed by hitler... it was such a significant event in world history... a history textbook wouldnt be complete abt it..

i also see learning the history of WW2 and the ppl who were killed impt to improve racial relations... do u guys know that decolonization swept across the world after ww2 bcoz werstern imperialists couldn't continue with their racist ideologies to colonize others???

[Thirdshifter]

I agree with what you wrote topdog, but i think you over-simplified the Issue.

The real problem is not racism but awareness. There's to many big ethnic groups in Malaysia and all strive for ethnic superiority.

The chinese obviously made it clear in 60s when singapore departed from the federation. Penang-Chinese and Malacca chinese wanted to leave as well. This Idea is still there amongst chinese. UMNO was accepted by all Malays at that time of history as the Guardian of Malaysia. No sane Malay would want to give up "their" land. Untill today Many malay view singapore defection from Malaysia as an insult. Johorians clearly shows their loyalty to UMNO because of this circumstances.

The real issue is awareness.

How many (malay/bumiputera) are aware that UMNO ideology no longer applies to todays Malaysian society?

How many chinese are aware that Malays in the Rural are more conservative poorly educated and obviously poorer then their Urbanites counterparts?

How many Malays are aware of this too?

How many are aware that Malays are the biggest tax payers?

For some of us who were provided with a good education, Have more opputunity to mix with other races finds that be it chinese, indian, bajau or malay we all are on the same playgroud with the only exception that, Bumiputeras would have a better chance of success when it comes to goverment sponsored incentives.

Unfortuantly the better educated Chinese and indians (the two largest minority) never showed any interest in changing this either. Instead of unsupporting UMNOs puppet (MCA/MIC) i hear them saying we have no better alternative. Less of the two evils? Give me a break.

In general Malays aren't that crazy about their special rights either. Malay want to move on and get rid of it as well. Unfortunatly its hard when they clearly see the other half of Malaysians are not. The first thing we need to do is create awareness about how Malays special rights effects the poor minority. How chinese Employers needs to stop being forced (quota) to employ bumiputeras. Get more minority to join public services. They want to see more chinese, indians in our Police departments. They want to see more chinese working at a low wage goverment job. They want be convinced that Chinese and Indians are as Malaysians as they are. Pathetic? yes. But All people needs conviction. Malays are not lacking on that department either.

There's more to it then solely blaming UMNO and its two best buddies.

I had on many occasions told Chinese and indian Malaysians that with their ignorance of the reality, which is Malays are the majority and the association of their two well powered and well-established well-funded (MCA,MIC) ethnic Assosiation/group with UMNO will forever keep themself as the second class citizens of Malaysia. I wonder how Many are aware of this.

Please i ask my Malaysian chinese, indians and others who are not recognized as a Bumiputera even if your family had lived here for well over 4 generations to start denouncing your own leadership and their failure to provide equality for you.

As a Malay i denounced all the racist policies that was amended to the Constitution of Malaysia that had and still are abusing the rights of Many malaysians.

After all if you believe thay your a Malaysian you have every right in this world to fight to be a Malaysian with equal rights and protection from the goverment you have elected. No more no less.[/b]

[Thirdshifter]

do u guys know that decolonization swept across the world after ww2 bcoz werstern imperialists couldn't continue with their racist ideologies to colonize others???

Actually i think it was because after ww2, The alliance under pressure by the US formed This thing called League of Nations which is known today as UN. One of the Main agenda of it was to stop this. The British who obviously got their butt kicked, French who couldn't defend their own country gave in. And the process started.

[topdog]

I agree with what you wrote topdog, but i think you over-simplified the Issue.
that would be me, not earth.:D

i totally agree with you. we are all in this together.

Instead of unsupporting UMNOs puppet (MCA/MIC) i hear them saying we have no better alternative. Less of the two evils? Give me a break.
don't generalize. some chinese now support keadilan. many have traditionally supported dap (which some malays think of as a remnant of communism, perhaps because its an offshoot of pap, the singapura robbers:))

as you said, awareness is the key word. (didn't i mention it many times?)

which brings me to another point....i still maintain that a vital step in breaking away from our colonial past is to make all kids study together under the same roof. i would like to think that issues like mother tongue and religious education can be worked out if people were only willing to give it a try. i think the chinese should ask themselves, are we chinese who so happen to be malaysians, or are we malaysians who so happen to be chinese? then again, i'm a banana, what do i know?:-/

well you can't force things down people's throats can you?

[Thirdshifter]

I agree with what you wrote topdog, but i think you over-simplified the Issue.
that would be me, not earth.:D?

I did edited it before you made your post :D

Anyway sorry for the generalization about the MIC/MCA. I forgot to put the word Most.

I agree with everything you wrote but it didn't reflect the Mainstream thinking in Malaysia. Hence the Awareness agenda.

Maybe we should all do an Awareness week whatever. Print some fliers and post it all over KL/malaysia. I can handle penang :lol:

[ElansarGelmir]

How many chinese are aware that Malays in the Rural are more conservative poorly educated and obviously poorer then their Urbanites counterparts?

How many Malays are aware that there are Chinese in the rural area, albeit less in number, who are poor as well? How many Malays, who are in the urbans or suburbans, are aware that the number of rich Malays are more than that of other races in Malaysia?

Well, what i want to point out here is, do not stereotype that all Malays are poor and all chinese are rich. I won't consider myself poor, but just happened to come from a mediocre family with my parents income slightly below average. But I have other friends too who have more unfortunate fate than i have. I have 2 friends who have to stop school since Form 1 because his mother could not afford it and they are not qualified to receive financial aid from the government becoz they don't have the "quality" to receive it. Yeah, the aid is only "khas" for the bumiputeras.

Thirdshifter, if you think that the special rights is to curb poverty, we could have just give the rights to the poor in lieu of the bumiputeras... By giving the special right to the Malays, you are just making the poor malay better off and the rich malays richer. How about other races in Malaysia? Should we be neglected just because we are second class citiens? Shouldn't the developement of Malaysia be termed as the developement of the Malays instead? I'm borned in Malaysia, and just because I don't have the "color", I can't have the same rights as others?

How many Malays are aware that the success of other races in Malaysia is not through gifts and special rights, but solely their sweat and hardwork? Was Loh Boon Siew given special rights? Was he given the monopoly of the sales of the motorbikes? I doubt it... They worked really really hard, and they truly deserve what they have now. However, these days in Malaysia, we work hard, and others get it . . .

Well, Malaysia has always been complaining about the lacking of unity among its people... But what's the root of this problem? I think i can safely say that it's due to Malaysia's policy that always try to distinguish the bumiputeras from the non-bumiputeras, the Islam from the non-Islam... I reckoned while filling in my SPM examination form... Only 2 races and 2 religions are available in the slots... Do i need to type it out here? You guys should have known it too... Doesn't this is evident that Malaysians are actually devided? Why can't we be just a bangsa Malaysia instead of bumiputera and non-bumiputera?

Let's look at the work force, especially in the government sector... Promotion wise, non-bumis can expect themselves not to get . . . unless they are really established and extraordinary... Perhaps i don't have a strong proof to this, but I believe the presence of discrimination could be sensed . . .

In the long run, or perhaps by 2020, should I say Malaysia would be very successful in curbing poverty among the Malays but poverty still occurs in other races like the Chinese and Indians... Please do remember that we pay our taxes, but we do not get 80% of what we deserved to get... Is it just because we are of different skin color? Malaysia is truly a country that practices racism.... Justice? Equality? I don't think I know them here...

[Thirdshifter]

ElansarGelmir,

Obviously what you wrote meant the exact same thing i was saying. Are we even aware of anything? Are you aware Chinese employer publicly advertise a vacancy with for chinese-only employees? I'm not saying all, but some do and its enough for Malays to be on their toes about the special right they have. It would be hard for me to convince other Malays that Chinese are not racist as our Umno led goverment is. Malays would argue why take the chance? Who cares? Oh see that ah Beng, he won't hire me in his kopitiam because i'm a Malay.

This thing goes both way. We have to make all understand what the hell is going on.

As i was trying to describe in my previous post, If the Discriminated group is not trying hard enough to get their rights back how can a Malay leader do something agaisnt the wish of his own voter? Politics is as dirty as it gets. They don;t care about you or about me.

If you want to make a change, i invite you with many other recom members who share this same opinion to form our own group and contest in the next general election.

[ElansarGelmir]

ElansarGelmir,

Obviously what you wrote meant the exact same thing i was saying. Are we even aware of anything? Are you aware Chinese employer publicly advertise a vacancy with for chinese-only employees? I'm not saying all, but some do and its enough for Malays to be on their toes about the special right they have. It would be hard for me to convince other Malays that Chinese are not racist as our Umno led goverment is. Malays would argue why take the chance? Who cares? Oh see that ah Beng, he won't hire me in his kopitiam because i'm a Malay.


Yeah, we are lack of awareness... But can i say that in this hurly burly of discrimination, the non-bumis suffer the most as the bumis are the deciding factors in everything Malaysia has in mind?

Thirdshifter, i appreciate your genuine suggestion If you want to make a change, i invite you with many other recom members who share this same opinion to form our own group and contest in the next general election. , but do you think that other bumiputeras (especially the Malays) are willing to give up their rights? After all, Malaysia's constituition had made it clear that the rights is so SACRED that whosoever questions it shalt suffer!!! That's why ISA's here too, rite? Sad to say, MCA and MIC are a little weak (coz they concentrate on other issues . . .).

[ElansarGelmir]

Oh see that ah Beng, he won't hire me in his kopitiam because i'm a Malay.


Hmmm... Are you sure you want to work in a kopitiam? The food is not halal though... And i've seen quite a number of chinese shops with Malay workers in it . . . But hard to find the the other way . . .

[topdog]

Yeah, we are lack of awareness... But can i say that in this hurly burly of discrimination, the non-bumis suffer the most as the bumis are the deciding factors in everything Malaysia has in mind?
okay, you are preaching to the wrong choir here. nobody here is unaware of non-bumi discrimination. no use regaling in our victimhood, no good will come out of it.

what we should be focusing on is how we can affect change, little by little (by we i mean both bumi and non-bumi). how we can work with other bodies who are already trying to change the system.

there are things we can do to say no to the current divisive, racialistic system. if you're a well-off malay, say no thank you to special rights. don't accept discounts when you buy a house in bandar utama.

if you are a chinese, say no to mca and the false sense of security they present. send your kid to national schools. join the armed forces, the police force, civil service. at least show that you are interestd in the development of malaysia as a whole, not just in commerce. note: the inevitable "but we will be discriminated against, less chance of promotion" argument will come up, i'm not saying it does not happen, but if we keep thinking like this, might as well sit down and bitch on the net for the rest of our lives.

best way to make your voice heard: ballot box.

[Thirdshifter]

Without getting overly ambitious, As a Malay i can almost guarantee you that i would probably get some selipar thrown, maybe some parang in between (but i'll do it regardless) at me if was to publicly ask Fellow Malays to give their special rights away. I think i already gave all my special rights away when i voluntarilly chose to boycott all goverment racist favouring. I cant speak for all but i did what i can do.

First we need to create awareness, then move on to get a referendum to abolish Bumiputera special privileges. I'm sure atleast some Malays would want to remodel this speacial privilege, I say screw that! get rid of it totally.

No affirmative action for anybody. Put the goverment money where it matters the most. Domestic Schools. People who paln to study abroad may do so on their own expenses.

[el_empty]

wow - my deepest respects for thirdshifter.

you are right. few would readily give up their rights. and it's not just the privileged malays. it's also the cronies (in other words, cina and indian tycoons) who stand to benefit as the token diversity (or the dlls... 'dan lain-lain's) in the ketuanan melayu rule.

i'd be quite skeptical about a referendum. it's something BN will never do since their political stranglehold is hinged on this concept. this means we have to rely on some strong opposition, namely DAP and a (you better buck up) Keadilan. but the opposition will never win unless the election commission becomes more credible and transparent. but they will never be more credible and transparent unless the opposition becomes more powerful. and that will balblablalllblalbla...

so we have a dilemma.

[fish]

I agree with the awareness part. Some of it could be due to the way of how we are educated.

I remember that I used to have plenty of Malay friends. They taught me how to speak Malay well, eat nasi lemak the way they do and we shared plenty of activities together. We were kids and we do not know anything about races. Anyone which offers friendship are friends.

Somehow or rather, we got seperated one day. I guess the last time I really enjoyed my friendship with my Malay friends without reservations was when I was in Standard 6.

There after, they have their class agama, etc, etc. They would form their own cliques and vice versa. We would have the dull Moral class in which we did not learn anything appliable to life. No, it didn't made me a better person though I memorised all the nilai-nilai murni.

I wonder, why did we seperate? The separation was even worse in local uni. Seniors would only share notes or exam tips according to races.

But lately, since I left Malaysia, I had some wonderful relationships with my Malay friends here. I would sincerely say that I miss their companionship a lot. We built our relationship on trust. I honestly admit that I had lost some off the trust on the way.

[Ic3b3rg]

No affirmative action for anybody. hehe.... no affirmative action? i hope there will be affirmative action for the underprivileged

[USSDefiantNX74205]

you are right. few would readily give up their rights. and it's not just the privileged malays. it's also the cronies (in other words, cina and indian tycoons) who stand to benefit as the token diversity (or the dlls... 'dan lain-lain's) in the ketuanan melayu rule.

These people are closely tied to the MCA and MIC I assume?

Anyway, perhaps those abroad who are unhappy with bumi rights and the injustice in Malaysia should form a political party when they return? They'd surely get my vote and my participation in the party.

And as many have pointed out, I too agree awareness is the way to go. Without awareness, nothing can be achieved. With awareness, even the ISA will be powerless. They can jail a few or maybe dozens under the ISA, but can they do so to thousands of people if they suddenly start questioning bumi rights and the ketuanan Melayu concept?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

hehe.... no affirmative action? i hope there will be affirmative action for the underprivileged

Just a thought, people. If we abolish affirmative action for bumis and give it instead to all underprivileged citizens, will it be abused by them then, just like what is happening among the Malay community now?

[SpRInG]

well, for me, i think they might, i mean, there's always a possibilty of the abuse of power, and also misuse of opportunities

[ElansarGelmir]

I agree with the awareness part. Some of it could be due to the way of how we are educated.

I remember that I used to have plenty of Malay friends. They taught me how to speak Malay well, eat nasi lemak the way they do and we shared plenty of activities together. We were kids and we do not know anything about races. Anyone which offers friendship are friends.

Somehow or rather, we got seperated one day. I guess the last time I really enjoyed my friendship with my Malay friends without reservations was when I was in Standard 6.

There after, they have their class agama, etc, etc. They would form their own cliques and vice versa. We would have the dull Moral class in which we did not learn anything appliable to life. No, it didn't made me a better person though I memorised all the nilai-nilai murni.


Yeah, i agree too... I was pretty closed to my Malay friends until when I was in secondary school when racial quota was heavily implemented . . . 70% of malays, 20% chinese and 10 % Indian/ lain-lain . . . The Malays hanged around themselves ... And the non-bumis one clan . . . And in any elections for class position, sad to say, always the Malays will get the posts, coz they made up the majority... Hmm... I guess this is applies to our real life in Malaysia, rite? Unless racial integration is achieved, the majority race still have the strongest say . . .

[MarquisX]

Yeah, i agree too... I was pretty closed to my Malay friends until when I was in secondary school when racial quota was heavily implemented . . . 70% of malays, 20% chinese and 10 % Indian/ lain-lain . . . The Malays hanged around themselves ... And the non-bumis one clan . . . And in any elections for class position, sad to say, always the Malays will get the posts, coz they made up the majority... Hmm... I guess this is applies to our real life in Malaysia, rite? Unless racial integration is achieved, the majority race still have the strongest say . . .

Race is overrated, ain't it? hehehe.
growing up in various places of Tawau, i recognize the challenge of racial integration. I am not sure if the adults realize that the whole race-game is a mindset forced upon them by the government to help them achieve total control of the masses. Look at the history of election...we have the same group of people controlling the agenda of a nation. These group of people will always maintain the status quo, until revolution occurs. They even divide the nation by skin color. The worse thing is, i only realize this once i get out of Malaysia.

[el_empty]

I am not sure if the adults realize that the whole race-game is a mindset forced upon them by the government to help them achieve total control of the masses .... we have the same group of people controlling the agenda of a nation. These group of people will always maintain the status quo, until revolution occurs. They even divide the nation by skin color...

that's a very good comment. now the other sad thing is that a lot of the malaysian politicians are so self-absorbed and believe in what they do. so staunchly that they refuse to take any constructive criticism against their policies. i recall when whatshisname minister nazri aziz guy chided an ACA official that the latter is a civil servant, while he.. ahem HE, the minister is a "political master." read on this article by mggpillai:
http://www.mggpillai.com/article.php3?sid=1814

the point being, when you have ministers who make comments like that, who probably make decisions, like his comments, without consulting the brain - then you will likely have ministers who preach and practice this holier than thou attitude.

[Ic3b3rg]

Quote:
hehe.... no affirmative action? i hope there will be affirmative action for the underprivileged


Just a thought, people. If we abolish affirmative action for bumis and give it instead to all underprivileged citizens, will it be abused by them then, just like what is happening among the Malay community now?

education liberates one from poverty. i really hope that the poor will be given a chance to break the " rich gets richer, poor gets poorer" norm. the affirmative action given to bumiputeras have given a lot of children from illiterate malay families the chance to climb up the social ladder

.... i just hope that now the underprivileged will be given the same chance as the well-heeled families in Malaysia

[ElansarGelmir]

These group of people will always maintain the status quo, until revolution occurs. They even divide the nation by skin color. The worse thing is, i only realize this once i get out of Malaysia.

I believe they will do anything to maintain the status quo . . . A good example to substantiate my point is the act of trimming the syllabus of our History to nothing . . . Revolutions, Renaissance, Reformation, and all the essential syllabus of the world history are taken away and replaced by chunks of less important materials . . . This will, of course, make students, except for those who go the extra mile to read more about history, less aware about reformations and revolutions . . . Sad to say, Malaysia's politicians are willing to do anything to maintain their seats.

[aquila]

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/1678.cfm

Read the article provided by the link. Gives you insight on the NEP.

Also, I encourage everyone to browse through the links on Msia provided by WorldPress. I was shocked to read about the inequality in Malaysia. Definitely sth that needs to be addressed. How about affirmative action to help the poor (that is also race blind)?

I think it's important that we stop using the race-card. More tensions will lead to an eruption in the future. Many non-Malays are unhappy with the NEP. And poor Malays are angrier still at their urban counterparts who are seen as corrupt, nepostic and have forgotten their roots. We need to address these important issues instead of pretending that they don't exist. There needs to be open and honest discussions instead of an attitude that's like "discuss such sensitive issues and expect a racial riot tomorrow!"

I think Msian leaders need to stop blaming the WEst for all problems. WEsterners are not your punching bags. Instead we need to see how Malaysia can be a bridge between the West and the Muslim world.

[topdog]

depressing site. only time will tell how history will view mahathir. i've already made up my mind and seen through the bs. mahathir is nothing more than a more successful and shrewd ferdinand marcos.

yeap, we are in deep shit when it comes to race relations. but i think more pressing issues are corruption and abuse of the system. it's sickening to read of cases like this kampung school (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sunday/Columns/20040425073424/Article/indexb_html)which got no help from the govt, when you have bloody rich politicians thumping their chests to shouts of Ketuanan Melayu, while helping themselves to the nation's wealth.

when investors gets sick of this bs and fly en masse to increasingly attractive china and india, and our economy crumbles, they will have nothing to shout about. then we will really see the effects of mahathir's feudalistic, corrupt and racist regime.

[ElansarGelmir]

I'm not really surprised that someone actually came up with this article. Though without Mahatir, Malaysia won't be standing proud in the 3rd world country as a developing nation, but sometimes i can't help wondering what if some other leaders with different political policies like Lee Kuan Yew took over? Will Malaysia, instead of being just a developing nation, will be almost as advanced and developed as Singapore, where equality is heavily emphasized on?

[Ic3b3rg]

just remember that majority of the malaysians are malays.
besides, many of the adults are either already too set in their ways and thinking or are not well-educated to be open minded to changes.


there COULD be instability in the country if the politicians do not cater to the mindset of these masses. sorry if i sound too right wing... just giving food for thought and another perspective of the issue...

[USSDefiantNX74205]

If the old are too set in their ways to change then I guess its up to us as the newer generation to change the country. Can't wait to see what will happen when people from our generation become politicians...

[el_empty]

but sometimes i can't help wondering what if some other leaders with different political policies like Lee Kuan Yew took over?

i guess we'll never really know. if anything though, we have to compare LKY with Tunku for they are their own contemporaries. they were each presented with somewhat the same problem, same starting line.. and after 4 and 3 PMs respectively, we are at such different states. hmm.... so interesting....

so is there anything we can do to address all these problems? malaysia is a great country, and we don't want to get left behind. the consensus is that some of the policies we have are not efficient, too patronizing, elitist, segregationist, and other *ists.

what can we do? can we be an effective voice somehow to offer suggestions to the govt? work with NGOs like Aliran, http://www.aliran.com/? can we form an alternative, or supplementary manifesto for the incumbent? is there a merit to align with opposition groups? most importantly, how do we make regular malaysians debate about the policies that affect them? how do we make people realize that their voting power counts? that there are alternatives? that the government works for them, not rule over them.

how? your thoughts?

[Randomphantom]

Catering to the mindset of the masses - thats what democracy is. But feeding a mindset to the masses, thats pure dictatorship/nazism/whatever you call it. I am simply saddened to see many enthrenched with this mindset, that they shy away from these important issues that will determine the future of our nation, due to threats of 'political instability', 'racial riots'etc. It does makes me wonder, are stability and equality both mutually exclusive goals?

Aligning with opposition might give the impression of 'student playing politics'. While we might not be able to change the older mindset, we can always start with our generation, like that in Recom (great job!). Having a greater awareness about interracial relations, government policies, social injustices. Having the humility and grace to recognise faults and hold open discussions with others. I believe those that are exposed to cultures overseas tend to subscribe to a more balanced/open worldview, and that would contribute to a society of open minds. Of course, education is key...but then its another case of 'feeding to the masses'. If only education teaches people about these issues.....

(thinking of Abdullah's 'work with me, not for me')

[Thirdshifter]

just for the record, PPP was a liberal and UMNO is the conservatives. It could've been a 2 way political game in Malaysia but UMNO was smart to get rid of any major rivalary.

I'm embrassed to realize that my parents and grandparents still haven't realized that Malaysia had progressed so much today because of the Immigrant influx into Malaya in the early 40s and 50s. All of our history books never mentioned the events of these immigrations in details. Who actually cares about those raja and Sultans? What logical thing that we can actually learn from that?

I'm impressed by how good our goverment is at failing to acknowledge that the developement of the Modern Malaysia was because of the immigrants not Mahathir. Bapa permodenan? LOL

[topdog]

I'm impressed by how good our goverment is at failing to acknowledge that the developement of the Modern Malaysia was because of the immigrants not Mahathir. Bapa permodenan? LOL
i'm just waiting for bapa pemodenan to include himself into the sejarah textbook and spm syllabus. oh wait, he doesn't have to. there's no shortage of apple polishers who will do it today if they can hehe.

[ElansarGelmir]

If the old are too set in their ways to change then I guess its up to us as the newer generation to change the country. Can't wait to see what will happen when people from our generation become politicians...

Unfortunately, not many students of our generations think the way we do... That's why we should recruit more students to participate in Recom, especially in this forum... That will, perhaps, produce a more educated and enlightened generation in lieu of students who are totally fed and brainwashed by the govt's policy.

[Ic3b3rg]

USSDefiantNX74205 wrote:
If the old are too set in their ways to change then I guess its up to us as the newer generation to change the country. Can't wait to see what will happen when people from our generation become politicians...

Unfortunately, not many students of our generations think the way we do... That's why we should recruit more students to participate in Recom, especially in this forum... That will, perhaps, produce a more educated and enlightened generation in lieu of students who are totally fed and brainwashed by the govt's policy. totally fed and brainwashed by the govt's policy.

not all the government's policy is bad..... and not all our ideas are right.... what we need to do is encourage people to think for themselves..

i believe that many of the generation of students before us are also this idealistic... somehow along the way, life got too complicated, they need to take care of themselves... their jobs... no time for all this

tun mahathir himself was one of the most idealistic persons when he started out in politics...

but in politics, to get the most optimum change, you also need diplomacy, smart delegation, and also the right timing to gain the trust of your constituents....

you cannot make everybody happy...

i believe tun mahathir has done all he can as one human being... cut him some slack..

what the government can do now is to tell the rakyat that it is okay for them to be independent, mature, thinking citizens.... to tell them that there will be no riots if they think critically....

and seriously, there are talks of policies affecting the rakyat, by the rakyat... its just that these talks often happen in coffee shops... where everyone gives his opinion but in the end..does nothing about it....

[ElansarGelmir]

Oops. I didn't mean all Malaysian's policies are bad... Hmm... What I was trying to mean was the young generations are supposed to be able to think for themselves whether which govt policy is good or bad, and thus instead of believing and trusting 100% whatever the govt tells them or asks them to do, they can realize themselves which is not the right way, and so on, just like what we are doing here right now. :wink:

[aquila]

Third, I agree with your last post. However, we need to have a strong opponent party with interests that are not narrowly defined. eg. PAS for islamic state, keadilan for freeing anwar and dap about bn leaders' kesalahan.

I think we need a vibrant and tenable opposition party that has objectives that appeal to a large cross section of the population. Also, besides condemning BN, they should think about how they can come up with their own dynamic platforms to court voters.

In my opinion, competition is definitely important to keep BN on their toes. A system of check and balances. Perhaps you can start a new political organization? One that consists of people from all races? I think it will appeal to many progressive thinkers of our generation.

[aquila]

*ehem... may i remind you that the people who are contributing to recom do not represent the masses in msia... not even people of our generation... so it's futile to be too idealistic about the potential of "our generation"...

most of us are abroad, lucky recipients of govt scholarships, ppl who have gone away and seen how when juxtaposed with foreigners, differences btw ourselves (chinese, malay and indian) are so minor and insignificant...

unfortunately, most people never have that opportunity... and they may be all the more bitter and dissatisfied about that... i feel there's a real danger of a mass outflow of young chinese/indians from the country in the near future...

so many people i've talked to can't wait to leave the country and be free from the govt's repressive policies... those who are able to leave are also the talented and smart ones.. if they do leave, there'll be even less chance for CHANGE in msia...

it's not surprising... most msians identify themselves as Malay/Chinese and Indian first... few would say that they're Msian first and such and such race second... not really a lot of patriotism... the racist policies are separating the people...

there's been a lot of talk about unity! it will all turn into BS if a quarter of the population continue to feel disenfranchised...

[Ic3b3rg]

*ehem... may i remind you that the people who are contributing to recom do not represent the masses in msia... not even people of our generation... so it's futile to be too idealistic about the potential of "our generation"...

my point exactly..... but i seriously hope that Malaysia will progress... not only physically but progress through the changing of mindsets of the people.... (hmm... now i sound like a politician...sigh)

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Changing the mindset of the people would be a challenge if you ask me. To change their apathy to votes that count and change their attitudes towards racial issues in our country. If we go out and say aloud what we believe in now, those still holding to their old and divisive views will surely come for our heads. And the govt politicians won't be far behind either, the ISA in their hands.

[el_empty]

see the thing that keeps BN up there is the fact that they don't screw up badly. badly enough to induce a need for a change. people are generally apathetic about politics - only a rich affluent society would participate in this participatory activity we call democracy. when you're not affluent, you'd rather worry about jobs, income, your kids, mortgage, etc.

so as long as they don't go below some theoretical minimum, a point where people tak boleh tahan anymore, they'd be fine, and free to splurge on as much white collar misdeeds. and they're quite careful too to retain token minorities like chinese and indian politicans ((@<hidden>&*#-ing useless cows) and business cronies for 'participation.'

in other words, there are no incentives nor checks/balances to keep them serving the people, not being the derelict institution they presently are.

other than appealing to the masses and 'creating awareness', a good option would be to induce malaysians overseas to return to malaysia, for these are your liberal folks, those who've seen the world, know the hardships here and abroad, and are the ones who desire a change. and these are the people who will exercise their rights in democracy. all the tian chuas and ezams and anwars and kitsiangs in the world will not succeed in providing malaysia the right checks and balances it needs if there are nobody to support them. there is power in the masses.