Vernacular Education

[topdog]

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to start a new thread on vernacular education, but I feel this facet of Malaysian life merits a closer look. I am mainly interested to know why most Chinese Malaysians regard vernacular education (in this case, Mandarin) as a fundamental right and part of their identity. In particular I would like to hear from ReCommers who went to Chinese schools about why they think their parents sent them to Chinese schools, what value or importance vernacular education holds/held for them, and whether they would send their own children to Chinese schools in the future, and why.

Here are some of the reasons I can think of. These are my personal juxtapositions and speculations, so take it with healthy dosages of salt. And please feel free to blast me if you disagree.

1) Perceived higher quality of education compared to national schools, especially in math.

2) Afraid of Islamic bias that may arise from being in a Malay-majority environment. This can be likened to the Malays' shunning of mission schools for fear of Christian proselytizing back in the colonial days.

3) As a defense mechanism against pro-bumiputra policy.

4) Purely out of tradition. Following in the footsteps of forebears.

5) Perceived greater importance of mastering Mandarin in light of China's emergence as an in ternational trading power.

6) A deeper, underlying current of racial prejudice. Lack of confidence in the capabilities of Malay teachers.

Thoughts?

[Thirdshifter]

Interesting Question. I think the decision to go to these schools are made by Parents who had over the years sort of believe that A chinese school is better then a Malay School.

This trend still continue untill today. many parents in Penang would want their Children to attend SRK Francis light (which was a Jenis Ingerris) until 10 years ago. Even though the last British left that school in the 60s.

Maybe the parents would think it'll be easier to adapt since their kid might not know how to speak Malay.

[aquila]

this is an interesting observation... in fact, my parents had planned on sending me to a srjk school in the past but my mom changed her mind last minute.. she was from a chinese school, and facing difficulties with english and malay, she thought a malay sch edu would be better for me and my brothers... my dad, coming from an english school, knows nuts about chinese and he regrets it very much and wants us to know chinese fluently.. i think this is the dilemma many parents today face... esp with China coming up as a regional power, many people do not want to be left behind in the race to get the best employment opportunities for their children

interestingly enough, my youngest brother was sent to a chinese school and he is in grade five now... my parents finally realized that a malay education need not have given us a head start in life, so might as well equip us with knowledge of the chinese language.. too late for me lar. i'm a chinese language dummy... interestingly , we speak mandarin at home in case you're wondering...

my parents plan to send my youngest brother to a malay high school so that he'll catch up on his malay and (english).. though I don't believe malay schools necessarily improve one's english... the fear that it will be easier for us to adapt to the malay language altho first knowing zilch about it never crosses my parents' minds.. also it's so much easier to learn a new language when you're younger anyways...

if the government seriously wants to do away with chinese schools, they have to MAKE SURE that chinese language is still offered in the national schools, provided enough funding and not thrown aside as some inconsequential third lang... i think ten yrs ago, many more chinese parents wouldn't have been as adamant on sending their kids to chinese schools as now.. since ppl who know chinese do have an upper hand in employment now... also, an increasing number of malay and indian parents have also started sending their kids to chinese schools.. i think that's a brilliant move, seriously... a malay/indian who knows chinese has a MUCH higher chance of getting employed than even a chinese him/herself...

putting aside racial politics, we should recognize china's emerging importance and realize that if our people know chinese, we will have an upper hand in the regional trade and economy in the future...

[Thirdshifter]

while you think it'll be important to know how to speak mandarin fluently so in the future would have a chance to communicate with China chinese better, at the same time the China-Chinese are taking up English.

My dad goes to china 4 times a year and he doesn't even know how to say hi in mandarin.

I think language doesn't play a huge barrier in conducting business or research as one might want to believe it is.

[aquila]

you will have an edge if you know the language.. otherwise, the whole world should just learn english... and US students shouldn't bother taking up a second language.. :P

[wwhong]

my parents never actually told me why they sent me to chinese school. but, they told me being a chinese, that's the "duty" to learn about own root and language. so i think that must be the reason. not because the rise of china or whatever, just that plain simple.

i truly believe it is a basic right of a person to learn his/her mother tongue. of course, being a m'sian chinese, chinese is the mother tongue for us. Why chinese insists so much about Chinese school? That's because if we don't, the language will be vanished from the boleh land and we will turn out to be like indonesian chinese. i m sure some of you might say, why the hell you wanna learn chinese? you are in m'sia, not in china. get ur ass back to china if you wanna learn chinese. that's the true comment I got from a Malay during my high school time. I don't blame him, that's the product of our country political system. I think Malay are being told implicitly that those people in chinese school are trying to take over their place and blah blah blah. maybe because some politicians or whatever wanna gain support then they use chinese school as the imagination enemy to gain unity and support.

do u think m'sian chinese have nothing better to do and are so free ? u think they have too much money and dunno where to spend that's why they donate to chinese school? why the chinese community fight so hard to keep chinese school? because there's the place where one can learn chinese language. u might say, hey there's some after school class for one to learn chinese, right? that is crap. u learn nothing there. We just can't trust the government enough that they will provide equal chance to learn chinese in the so called national school, visionary school or whatever crap they name it. Why? Look at UTM, they can't even have a Chinese Language Society there. If a supposedly liberal learning place can't even tolerate the existence of chinese, then do u expect the chinese community to trust whatever shit the government promised on this issue?

yeah i know there's some people that have the stereotype of chinese school students as communists. They thought those students are being taught to hate government, etc. That's not the case, come to chinese school and see for yourself. the teachers never taught or trying to tell students stuff like that. We are told to respect other races. saying that chinese school students are not patriotic? look at chen chow.

honestly, my school "produced" quite a number of opposition leaders. chua tian chiang is one of them.

some of the recommers have constantly express their disgust towards the vernacular system. yeah, it sucks but have you ever think about why it exists? IF the government will give fair treatment to this and keep their god damn promise, do you think the m'sian chinese have nothing better to do and just wanna create chaos? This is a sad truth but sometime m'sian chinese do feel that we love this country but this country doesn't love us kind of feeling. Is learning own mother tongue a too much thing to ask for? I definitely do not think so.

If you think chinese language is the obstacle to unity, cut that crap. It;s the mentality. Look at indonesian chinese. They gave up their chinese identity but at the end, what happened to them? Some of them got raped, burned and killed in the 1998 riot.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

OK, a disclaimer first. This next post may sound a bit offensive to some, especially to wwhong, so hope you don't take this too harshly alright?

*offers handshake to wwhong in advance*

Why chinese insists so much about Chinese school? That's because if we don't, the language will be vanished from the boleh land and we will turn out to be like indonesian chinese.

That will only happen if UMNO/BN decides to do away with vernacular schools. But I don't think that will happen if a bunch of liberalists who care about the rights of all races takes over the government.

i m sure some of you might say, why the hell you wanna learn chinese? you are in m'sia, not in china. get ur ass back to china if you wanna learn chinese. that's the true comment I got from a Malay during my high school time.

I'm a Chinese who has never been to a Chinese school and knows crap about mandarin. I come from the same missionary school that my father attended and my mother comes from a convent school, so I was brought up in an environment where English is held in higher regard than Mandarin. But even so, I am perfectly happy to be the way I am despite repeated criticism that I am always 'not Chinese enough'. But remember: this is Malaysia and I am not Chinese. I am Malaysian. The Chinese in Malaysia have to remember that they are Malaysian-Chinese. The word Malaysia always comes before the word Chinese. Your Malay friend is right. If the Chinese so desperately want to keep their language in the mainstream and have their own Chinese type schools for that very selfish purpose only, then why not do the easier thing and get the heck back to China? Everyone speaks Mandarin there.

If the Chinese community keeps crying foul over Malay special rights, then they also have to remember that they have to sacrifice something in return if they want equality. No use telling the Malays to throw away their special rights when the Chinese keep telling everyone that the status of Chinese schools can't be touched (sounds familiar??). Also, when we do away with vernacular education, it does not necessarily mean that we have to abandon the Chinese language and culture altogether. You can still learn Chinese and have Chinese festivals, etc. No one is gonna take that away from the Chinese. Unfortunately, this is what most Chinese, including you wwhong (I suspect), fear will happen when we close down vernacular schools. In another thread, I have already shown you an alternative plan where vernacular schools are not needed but Mandarin, Tamil and other languages will be preserved at the same time:

http://ams.homelinux.org:8000/~bachok83/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=755&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=bdf623bc9070a966b442ed817d3e9cff

maybe because some politicians or whatever wanna gain support then they use chinese school as the imagination enemy to gain unity and support.

you're right, wwhong. but you yourself fell for their deceptions by saying this:

We just can't trust the government enough that they will provide equal chance to learn chinese in the so called national school, visionary school or whatever crap they name it.

In short, they made you so afraid of losing Chinese type schools that you blast every alternative plan that comes up. You're right in saying that you can't trust the government. All they ever do is use the issue of Chinese schools to scare the Chinese into submission, into voting for the BN because 'only the BN can protect the rights of all Malaysians'. Tell me something, are they really protecting the rights of all Malaysians or are they dividing us even more, using vernacular schools as a mere tool of fear in trying to maintain their political control over the nation?

Look at UTM, they can't even have a Chinese Language Society there. If a supposedly liberal learning place can't even tolerate the existence of chinese, then do u expect the chinese community to trust whatever shit the government promised on this issue?

This shows further that the government is using our culture and language as a tool to divide and control us. Reactions like this from the Malay community only make the Chinese guard their language more selfishly and zealously - which is exactly what the govt wants. The MCA can then happily go around claiming that they are the only ones who can guard the Chinese culture and language, oblivious to the fact that they and their UMNO allies are the very ones who created this divide among the two races in the first place.

some of the recommers have constantly express their disgust towards the vernacular system. yeah, it sucks but have you ever think about why it exists?

As mentioned above, its only there so there's a reason the Chinese will vote for the MCA and hence, the BN.

This is a sad truth but sometime m'sian chinese do feel that we love this country but this country doesn't love us kind of feeling. Is learning own mother tongue a too much thing to ask for? I definitely do not think so.

Once again I reiterate my stand. Doing away with vernacular schools does not mean that one cannot learn his/her mother tongue at school.

If you think chinese language is the obstacle to unity, cut that crap. It;s the mentality. Look at indonesian chinese. They gave up their chinese identity but at the end, what happened to them? Some of them got raped, burned and killed in the 1998 riot.

The Chinese language isn't an obstacle to unity. Vernacular schools are. The Indonesian Chinese were forced to give up their Chinese identity, remember. But doing away with vernacular schools doesn't mean the same thing. We're just giving up one education system for another. The Chinese culture and identity will always be there to contribute to our nation's unique multi-cultural image. Show the other races that the Chinese are not the selfish, conspiring and cunning people they are perceived to be and they won't be raped, murdered, burned, maimed or killed. Take the initiative and be the first to offer this hand of friendship and unity. Then maybe the other races will follow suit.

[topdog]

thank you wwhong for sharing. i hope more chinese-educated recommers can share with us too. although i'm chinese, i'm actually exactly like ussdefiant (eh, your nick too long la:)), so having never been to a chinese school, i never understood why most chinese go to chinese schools. oddly enough, my dad himself is chinese-educated, although only for primary.


This shows further that the government is using our culture and language as a tool to divide and control us. Reactions like this from the Malay community only make the Chinese guard their language more selfishly and zealously - which is exactly what the govt wants. The MCA can then happily go around claiming that they are the only ones who can guard the Chinese culture and language, oblivious to the fact that they and their UMNO allies are the very ones who created this divide among the two races in the first place.

i don't think this is true. i mean, the part about chinese depending on mca as their guardian of chinese language and culture. if you look at the manifestos of keadilan and dap, they include mother tongue education and preserving vernacular education. incidentally, no party, not dap nore keadilan, mentions anything about bumi special rights. so i think its obvious that all parties see these 2 issues as especially sensitive and dare not touch them.


Once again I reiterate my stand. Doing away with vernacular schools does not mean that one cannot learn his/her mother tongue at school.

i have been giving much thought to this. chinese language is important, i think there's no doubt about it. there must be a way to pool all our resources together...mrsm, chinese, tamil, national. if the authorities can ensure that chinese can be taught thoroughly in national schools, not as an after-school class (which doesn't work, i know), but integrated into school timetables, using teachers from chinese vernacular schools, would it be acceptable? i really think we should take a leaf out of singapore's book here. they don't have vernacular schools do they? speaking of s'pore, why are chinese-educated students here always so proud that their chinese is supposedly better than s'pore chinese? if a chinese-educated malaysian and singaporean competes for a business deal in china, would it matter?

If you think chinese language is the obstacle to unity, cut that crap. It;s the mentality. Look at indonesian chinese. They gave up their chinese identity but at the end, what happened to them? Some of them got raped, burned and killed in the 1998 riot.
we don't need to give up our identity. i've been thinking about indon chinese too. and it struck me that indon chinese make up an extremely small percentage of indonesia's population. they are almost negligible in fact. but we here in malaysia are different. i say thank god we have chinese who are politically active and not only interested in making money. i mean, people like keadilan's tian chua who seems to enjoy getting thrown into jail (i didn't know he's an alumnus of your school, wwhong), and obviously the dap. what i'm trying to get at is our situation is a lot different from indonesian chinese.

[chenchow]

I think this discussion on vernacular school will boils down to why there is such a demand.

Personally I come from Vernacular school and I would say that students from vernacular school is not any less Malaysians than other Malaysians. Students from vernacular schools, at least my school, requires students to read newspapers from all 3 languages, Utusan/Berita Harian, Star/NST, and Nanyang/SinChew. That's the typical thing and I would say that I read all those 6 newspapers on daily basis, even though I am now more than 10,000km away from home.

During national day and also during every assembly, we sing national and state anthem proudly. We raise Jalur Gemilang (huge one) outside of classroom during entire August. Do we do less compared to national schools? There are a number of students from other races, and all of them can speak mandarin very fluently, and some speak much more fluent compared to me. And I would say that vernacular schools like mine is open to everyone, with just the cutoff point is 6A1B in UPSR. 7As are guaranteed entry and 6A1B will depend on in-school performance.

Events on campus, which involved students of other schools are typically held in trilingual/bilingual.

In vernacular schools, I think a lot of times the facilities are pretty sufficient with donations from alumni, parents and community. For instance, every student will donate RM100 per year for computer labs. In my school, almost every student organization has a computer. The awareness of giving back is high. Often, there will be some alumni who have been successful in society, will go back and donate to the schools, be it in energy wise or money wise.

In terms of teaching, I would say that the expectation from the community is very high. So, there is no room for slacking. Imagine teachers got reprimanded for the % of As in that particular subjects are lower than expected. Imagine the students got ticked off when only 200+ students get straight As in UPSR. Teachers are expected to stay in school after class, for activities, for students to ask questions.

And all 3 languages are taught extensively. I would say that having vernacular schools will not cause additional polarization, as we do have co-curricular activities with other schools around. We do community service in old folks home, housing community around, which are from all races.

So, I think that vernacular schools have not done any damage to our society. At least, it has produced some of the talents in our country in various aspects. Most, if not all, vernacular school students are very willing to contribute to the nation. We love the country as much as others.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

if the authorities can ensure that chinese can be taught thoroughly in national schools, not as an after-school class (which doesn't work, i know), but integrated into school timetables, using teachers from chinese vernacular schools, would it be acceptable?

Well perhaps they can have a second language period during school hours, something like they do in Singapore. Now this would surely be something worthy of replacing our pendidikan moral.

For instance, every student will donate RM100 per year for computer labs.

WOW! RM100 per student? Did you mean current students or old students?

[topdog]

thank you chenchow for sharing.

i think we all have to admit that we all have our own biases. personally i came from a school with a proud la salle heritage, so i'm biased towards english and malay education. we gotta remember that our parents grew up in a very young malaysia, with the nep and all that. so i'm sure they have transferred their own biases and preference to us, consciously or otherwise. this is true for all races.

the thing about vernacular schools is not what you learn. i'm sure all of us learn the same thing. it's about who you learn with. chenchow, i don't agree that chinese schools don't increase polarization. i think the whole education system divides the people. don't you think it's funny that malays, chinese and indians only get together for real when they are overseas? why not start at home? don't you think it's funny too that we want to go overseas to expose ourselves to other cultures yada yada yada when we can't even study together at home?

i'm sure all of us agree that as kids, thoughts of race never crossed our minds. it's until we grow older that we begin to see and feel the effects of racial polarization. so think about your future kid. if you are a [insert race] do you want him to spend his formative school years in an all-[insert race] environment? is it healthy?

[chenchow]

topdog, thanks for sharing. I think perhaps in this context, those who have gone through national schools, including missionary schools could share with us the level of inter-racial relationship there. Do everyone mingle freely? Is there any barrier that exists? I think this is equally important.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

In my school at least (its a missionary school), there seem to be invisible racial lines in the interaction of students. Chinese will often group with Chinese, Malay with Malay, and the same applies for other races. Its mostly due to the language barrier if you ask me. The ones that do mix are usually the ones from the top classes who can speak English fairly well and use it as an intermediate language.

Also, since missionary schools get little funding from the government, there is a somewhat supressed feeling of discontent among non-Malay students here who blame the bumi policy (and hence the Malays) and the government's hatred of Christian missionary schools for this critical lack of funding.

But these feelings normally don't get in the way of interaction and we all mingle well, just not that close thats all.

If you don't mind me asking, topdog, which la salle school did you come from?

[littlebigone]

I don't have any opinions to say out. Just a couple of questions that I have rising from reading the posts.

Are most Chinese school teachers Chinese or are they evenly sprad across the races?

The teaching environment - do teachers tend to impose or alert students of political situations? I don't really know how to word this question, just that it seems that people from chinese schools are very politically aware of the plight of the Chinese community.

and lastly, when someone contributes to a chinese school, is it because of
a) the love for the school or
b) the hope that chinese schools in general will persevere
I ask this because I cannot imagine giving RM100 to my school for computers and I rarely hear it from non-vernacular schools. There are donors and people kind enough to show support but usually it's in line with their capabilities.

[wwhong]

USSDefiantNX74205, dun worry, no offense at all. let's exchange opinions and we can see beyond our own scope.

littlebigone,

during 70's to 80's, yes most of the teachers in chinese school are chinese. but now, i m not sure about every other single chinese school but at least for my school and few other chinese school in melaka that i know of, the teachers and clerk and the stuffs are a mix. my school has quite a number of malay and indian teachers. even though my school is a chinese school, those malay and indian teachers and stuff never complaint about any "racist" crap. maybe the only thing they dun like is our canteen that serves mostly chinese food. other than that, all the teachers mingle well among themselves and mingle well with students as well. like during my high school, my society advisors were one indian and one malay teacher.

no, the teachers never tried to instill or transmit (sorry if i use the wrong words) any political thinking to students. they just teach what they supposed to teach but just sometime explain some concepts in chinese if the teacher is a chinese. maybe sometime teached us about life but never touch any politics.

chinese school students are very politically aware of the plight of the Chinese community? maybe because they have more awareness to that. i think even non-chinese school students do too right?

the reason why i elaborate so much about my school is because i want to tell people what's going on and don't keep holding that kind of stereotype that chinese school are communists, trying to create chaos, anti government or whatever sh** that i am sick of listening.

yes, i agree there's something we must give up for the sake of unity but there's also something we shouldn't give up and should insist on.

[topdog]

topdog, thanks for sharing. I think perhaps in this context, those who have gone through national schools, including missionary schools could share with us the level of inter-racial relationship there. Do everyone mingle freely? Is there any barrier that exists? I think this is equally important.
most definitely. can't speak for other schools, but in my school, definitely. there were very few malays in my school. in fact there wasn't a single malay in my class throughtout secondary school, so there wasn't really anyone to mingle with in the first place. which isn't surprising, since there were very few malays in the whole school to begin with.

i had a few malay friends in primary school. most of them melesap in form 1, probably to mrsm and other SBP. one malay who stayed, i still keep in touch with when i'm home.

If you don't mind me asking, topdog, which la salle school did you come from?
st francis melaka. 'age quod agis', heh.

[aquila]

in my school, we had 10% chinese and other races... in fact in my entire batch of over 200 ppl, we had only 8 chinese and 1 sikh... the non-malays were all in my class and yea, we did flock together... :P however, we were probably friendlier with our malay friends than any other standard students in other schools... actually not surprising either because everytime the muslim students go for prayers or taklimat agama, we'd be stranded in class among ourselves... also took p. moral together and all those kinds of stuff....

i did have some good malay friends... ppl who sat around me... i think circumstances will just dictate who your friends are eventually... perhaps because of my background, i feel more comfortable around non-chinese folks! haha... still remember my bm teacher, a chinese saying how his parents sent him to a malay kampung to improve his bm.. seriously he speaks bm without any accent...

[chenchow]

I think the racial composition is slightly imbalance, but all 3 races are represented. For instance, there are about 150 teachers in my school, of which I think 100 are chinese and 50 are malays and indians.

On that RM100 giving, it is for current student. That means you donate RM100 for Remove, Form 1, Form 2 etc.. RM 100 each year. That's not the only donation, we do donate to get a school van, get curtain, bus stop, campfire, camping etc... Typically, I would say RM 200-250 per student per year. This is the minimum amount, although students with difficulty will have their donations being spreaded out over many months. I think for present student, it is more for the usage of facilities. Whereas for graduating Form 5 students, typically a school magazine is produced and I think total donation for that magazine is typically like RM50,000 - RM100,000, with the amount not spent is donated to school, typically like RM10,000 or so.

Alumni giving back is more for the love of school.

Politics are out of bounds of school.

[topdog]

during my time my school's racial composition was probably something like this: 70% chinese, 20% indian, 5% malay, 5% eurasians dll. not very representative of the real malaysia...but still better than being 100% one race.

[czar85]

Topdog wrote:
ReCommers who went to Chinese schools about why they think their parents sent them to Chinese schools.

~i studied in Chinese Primary School, Missionary School, and National School.
No doubt, i agree with wwhong that the reason is plain simple ?to learn your own mother tongue. It?s definitely unfair to assume that most parents do so because of ?A deeper, underlying current of racial prejudice?Lack of confidence in the capabilities of Malay teachers.?

~My dad initially thought of sending me to Missionary School for fear that i?d have to study in Remove class due to possible bad command in Malay and English Language. This just goes to show that my dad has confidence in Malay teachers.
However, he changed his mind to allow for a primary education that teaches his children about Chinese traditions, roots, cultures and value systems, which is best learnt through yes ?Mandarin.

~Of course, as what USSDefiantNX74205 said, i would strongly agree to the notion that i?m first a Malaysian, then only a Chinese. But, this isn?t a warranty to justify that you can give up your native language and identity.

~Granted, the existence of vernacular school can be seen as an apparent obstacle to racial unity. In a futuristic point of view, i myself dislike the idea that each race goes to each different schools. But, unless the government can guarantee a balanced and objective educational system that tolerates diversity, vernacular schools would still be there for the near future.

It?s a noble hope of everyone to see Malaysians study together under one roof. For this aim to be successful, the National School must be fortified ?follow the principle of ?Open doors, Open Hearts and Open Minds? (Ezra Cornell).

Obviously, the recent development and the pledge made by PM and the Minister of Education at the end of Educational Submit 2004 is certainly a step closer to the right direction.


i personally think that there is a lot of things to learn from Chinese Primary Schools, which have over the years attracted a big number of Malays students.

kindly read the link http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/200402180036242.php

[ElansarGelmir]

Hmm... I'm from a missionary secondary school that was converted to a national school . . . Racial quota was heavily implemented, 7:2:1 of Malay, Chinese and Indian... This is the standard ratio, however, could be increased to 8:1:1 if there are more malays in the school . . . And recently, from what I've heard from my friend who's doing F6, my school close its application to the vernacular primary schools . . . Which means, less Chinese and Indians will be accepted, unless they're from National schools . . . I have no idea why they would implement such ridiculous rule . . .

[USSDefiantNX74205]

~Of course, as what USSDefiantNX74205 said, i would strongly agree to the notion that i?m first a Malaysian, then only a Chinese. But, this isn?t a warranty to justify that you can give up your native language and identity.

Actually, you misunderstood me there. As you can glean from one of my previous posts, I never said that we need or have to give up our native language and identity. Rather, I said we can still preserve our native language and identity even without vernacular schools.

[topdog]

thanks, all, for your feedback. it has certainly helped answer a lot of questions and cleared some misconceptions i had about chinese schools.

[soul_out]

Simple reason my parents send me to SRJK coz my parents are good in Mandarin but not very good in BM and English. So it would be easier for them to teach me while i'm still young and don't have the capability to do self study.

It's always good to learn your mother tougue and speak more than 1 language fluently. Look at French-Canadian, Spanish-American, do their government ever asked them to give up the rights to learn French and Spanish in order to have equal rights as anybody else in the county? So the suggestion of asking any races to giving up their mother tongue seems naive.

Third, learning Mandarin is not necessary to do business with China Chinese, but it's always an advantage. Yes your Dad will be able to communicate with a Chinese who can speak English, but what about a taxi driver, or a blue-collar at the construction sites and factories? Isn't it always good to understand the demand of the workers by the boss himself rather by the translation of the business partner or the manager?

I'm always wondering, can Malaysia amend their education system into like what we see in US and Oz, everybody is attending the same systems of school, studying the core subjects that required yet can choose to learn their mother tongue like Chinese and Hindi and foreign language like Japanese and Spanish? Is it possible?

[Ic3b3rg]

I'm always wondering, can Malaysia amend their education system into like what we see in US and Oz, everybody is attending the same systems of school, studying the core subjects that required yet can choose to learn their mother tongue like Chinese and Hindi and foreign language like Japanese and Spanish? Is it possible?

of course it is possible.... the question is will it?? and when??

we need to have enough manpower to teach ( assuming that we are not using computers to teach in the near future), enough resources (money), and enough students who want to learn a particular language... ( i think the japanese language will be very popular)......

as it is..... i think there is a decline in the number of mandarin language teachers already.... correct me if i am wrong...

[chenchow]

I think foreign language are offered in many residential schools, if I am not wrong.

And in fact, US K-12, primary to high school education do not have comment syllabus. Students have the options to take whatever they wish, with some basic guidelines and the emphasis for each state differs.

[soul_out]

~Of course, as what USSDefiantNX74205 said, i would strongly agree to the notion that i?m first a Malaysian, then only a Chinese. But, this isn?t a warranty to justify that you can give up your native language and identity.

Actually, you misunderstood me there. As you can glean from one of my previous posts, I never said that we need or have to give up our native language and identity. Rather, I said we can still preserve our native language and identity even without vernacular schools.

It's almost impossible to "preserve our native language and identity even without vernacular schools". The current syllabus in Malaysian Chinese vernacular school is set by the Ministry of Education (correct me if i'm wrong as i'm not pretty sure, but for sure it's standardised else we won't sit for the same public exam). If the systems is abolished(touch wood), students can only learn their mother tongue from tuition center or at home. Not all chinese parents is well educated(some not even educated) and not every family able to pay for the monthly tuition fees.

A Chinese-Malaysian is also a Malaysian who can speak and read Malay fluently, able to communicate with most of the races in the country.

Frankly, there are some Chinese-Malaysian who can't read and speak Chinese yet are pround of themselves.

I would like to share an "incident" that being told by my friend.

The car of a Chinese-Malaysian Penangnite(My friend) who can only speak English and Hokkien(common dialect in Penang) broke down in Klang Valley. A Chinese-Malaysian mechanic from KL who can only speak Mandarin and Cantonese(common dialect in Klang Valley) came across and willing to help the Penangnite. Guess how did they communicate? Yes, BM boleh. So izzit important for a Chinese to learn Mandarin?

[wwhong]

Simple reason my parents send me to SRJK coz my parents are good in Mandarin but not very good in BM and English. So it would be easier for them to teach me while i'm still young and don't have the capability to do self study.

It's always good to learn your mother tougue and speak more than 1 language fluently. Look at French-Canadian, Spanish-American, do their government ever asked them to give up the rights to learn French and Spanish in order to have equal rights as anybody else in the county? So the suggestion of asking any races to giving up their mother tongue seems naive.

Third, learning Mandarin is not necessary to do business with China Chinese, but it's always an advantage. Yes your Dad will be able to communicate with a Chinese who can speak English, but what about a taxi driver, or a blue-collar at the construction sites and factories? Isn't it always good to understand the demand of the workers by the boss himself rather by the translation of the business partner or the manager?

I'm always wondering, can Malaysia amend their education system into like what we see in US and Oz, everybody is attending the same systems of school, studying the core subjects that required yet can choose to learn their mother tongue like Chinese and Hindi and foreign language like Japanese and Spanish? Is it possible?

can't agree with you more on the doing business in china issue.

yeah it's possible to have just one school system where people can choose to learn their mother tongue freely without any obstacles provided enough facility and teaching stuff are available. In that case, everyone is happy. Those who wanna learn their mother tongue will have the opportunity and for those who don't can do whatever they like and every races can study under the same roof. Also, that kind of mental attitude that Chinese language and its users are "monsters" or communists should be abolished. Everyone respects BM as the national language and no one in M'sia is gonna abolish it. Those government officers with biased views towards Chinese or Indian language should be terminated and replace with liberal minded educator, not politic officer.

[ElansarGelmir]

I don't think most National schools will support our learning Chinese/ Tamil whole heartedly... Like my school for example, the students are supposed to stayback after school for chinese classes. And the classes were conducted for 2 hours a week. Is that adequate? And besides, in some schools (Convent BM - i always bring this school up coz my sis's there, so i know what's happening), in the past, the students were not allowed to communicate in other languages in school grounds except BM and English. So, how can one ensure that our native language can be preserved by attending national schools?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

I don't think most National schools will support our learning Chinese/ Tamil whole heartedly...

That's down to policy. Under the current govt, I'm sure this will almost surely happen.

So, how can one ensure that our native language can be preserved by attending national schools?

By taking the example of the American system where students can choose to learn other languages (Spanish, French, etc.). To ensure this works, skilled teachers will have to be employed. I'm sure all the quality Mandarin and Tamil teachers will put in just as much effort in teaching if all schools are integrated into a single national-type school. The only obstacle now, like I said, is the govt and its policies that are not very friendly towards the languages of other races. So don't say that having single national-type schools only is almost impossible. It's only 'almost impossible' because of the current govt's policies - and remember, policies can be changed.

You're right by saying that "The current syllabus in Malaysian Chinese vernacular school is set by the Ministry of Education" soul_out. This shows that you acknowledge that the govt is the main obstacle to preserving other languages if all schools were to be integrated.

If the systems is abolished(touch wood), students can only learn their mother tongue from tuition center or at home. Not all chinese parents is well educated(some not even educated) and not every family able to pay for the monthly tuition fees.

I've already offered an explanation for this in my previous posts and I will do it one last time (hopefully) here. Doing away with vernacular schools does not mean that native languages will not be taught at school. It could be made an optional subject and students have the freedom to take it or otherwise. It's as simple as that. And I'm not talking about those 2 hour extra classes a week type of thing either. I'm suggesting that these languages be taught during school hours.

The car of a Chinese-Malaysian Penangnite(My friend) who can only speak English and Hokkien(common dialect in Penang) broke down in Klang Valley. A Chinese-Malaysian mechanic from KL who can only speak Mandarin and Cantonese(common dialect in Klang Valley) came across and willing to help the Penangnite. Guess how did they communicate? Yes, BM boleh. So izzit important for a Chinese to learn Mandarin?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You seemed ardent to show that the Chinese should preserve their language and learn it when you're implying the opposite here. Don't really get your point lah :P

and lastly:

Frankly, there are some Chinese-Malaysian who can't read and speak Chinese yet are pround of themselves.

That would be me! :D

[soul_out]

Hi USS, the 2 chinese communicate in Malay incident is open for everyone to judge. Different people will have different opinion as every individual are unique. But if you wanna know my personal opinion, I think it's a shame.

Regarding that you are proud of yourself do not know how to speak chinese/read chinese, it's fine as long as you feel happy about it. Nevertheless, i'm always willing to help my friends who are in the same shoe as you to be able to communicate better in mandarin.

[Thirdshifter]

So here, i'm gonna get everyone back to one. What is your native tongue? If it's native why do you have to go to school to learn it?

here's a definition of native

na?tive (ntv)
adj.
Existing in or belonging to one by nature; innate: native ability.


Vernacular schools should not exist period, unless ofcourse it is exclusively private.

National schools also should go as well. Matter of fact all this SPM, STPM should be thrown out as well.

No more boarding schools, I don't think its a good idea to build more Asrama penuh schools.

We need localized schools. If you live in Town A you go to Town A school. This is the only way to get a more participants for the school developements.

There should be no "only 4A UPSR students" 8A PMR" kinda schools. No more "Kelas Pandai, Kelas bodoh"

The whole education system in Malaysia is pretty messed up. Vernacular school top the list.

[ElansarGelmir]

Well, I believe in keeping the vernacular schools. See what "nationalizing" the missionary schools have done to our schools? The quality of our students have plummeted drastically overall. Some of the top schools in Malaysia are vernacular schools too. In fact, the students from vernacular schools are the one who drive us (national school students) hard to excel in our academics (competition). We picked up their hardworking attitude, and gain some benefits from their "spotting" questions for SPM, hehe. Our teachers do not even bother with that. Over all, i think that it's the vernacular schools that keep our academic to a certain standard. Otherwise, you can count on us to slack.

Hmm... Sorry for my blurness and ignorant, but what's the main problem caused by the vernacular schools? Deterioration in academic quality? I've presented my argument above. Racism and racial tolerance? Even racism happens in national schools. And what about those agama schools or MARA schools? Do they not segregate the Malays there from the non-Malays too? So how can one tell the fault lies on the vernacular schools and not the latter?

Quote:
I don't think most National schools will support our learning Chinese/ Tamil whole heartedly...

That's down to policy. Under the current govt, I'm sure this will almost surely happen.


If so, why don't we change our govt policy first. And if we managed to change it and rectify the current mess, then i believe Chinese and Indian parents have more confidence in the "new" National schools, and I don't see why they won't allow their children to attend National schools. And hence, your idea of abolishing vernacular schools could be done easier. My two cents =)

[soul_out]

Third, i agree with you that Malaysian Education system is a mess. There should be only 1 system of government school left and the medium of instruction should be English. BM can still be a mata pelajaran wajib and students should be given the freedom to learn their native language and obliged to sit for the native language exam. With the compulsory exam, the representative of Chinese society shouldn't worry too much about that their freedom of learning Chinese language will be rob.

If Chinese think that they don't want to go to government school because of some reasons, they still can go to Chinese private school who teach everything in Mandarin(some in English) including Math n Science.

Just my 2 cents.

~ ~ ~

So far, we have recomers from vernacular school and non-vernacular school to back the existence of vernacular school.

We also have recomers from non-vernacular school to suggest the abolishment of vernacular school.

Is there any recomers from vernacular school who agree with the abolishment of vernacular school?

P/S: Are those who are from missonary schools think that their school still playing the same role as before and produce quality students as what they normally do in 1950s, 1960s and 1970s after it has been nationalised?

[ElansarGelmir]

P/S: Are those who are from missonary schools think that their school still playing the same role as before and produce quality students as what they normally do in 1950s, 1960s and 1970s after it has been nationalised?

I think u've already known my stand. No, i don't think so.

[__earth]

Hmm... Sorry for my blurness and ignorant, but what's the main problem caused by the vernacular schools? Deterioration in academic quality? I've presented my argument above. Racism and racial tolerance? Even racism happens in national schools. And what about those agama schools or MARA schools? Do they not segregate the Malays there from the non-Malays too? So how can one tell the fault lies on the vernacular schools and not the latter?


disolving vernacular system also means disolving agama and MARA system. It doesn't mean disolving just the SRJ.

any govt sponsored program should be race-blinded. this is why i think vernacular should go with the bumiputra rights. both breed the same problem. If chinese still support the vernacular system, then i see no way the conservative malay would give out bumiputra rights.

[ElansarGelmir]

disolving vernacular system also means disolving agama and MARA system. It doesn't mean disolving just the SRJ.


Are MARA schools vernacular schools? Well, if i'm not mistaken, MARA schools are heavily funded by the govt. So wouldn't they be govt schools?

[aquila]

you guys are radical, to say the least! do you know what a dissolvement of chinese/tamil vernacular schools, MRSM and agama schools will do? It will raise a huge ruckus from all sectors of the society!!! everyone will protest! only people like you and me, people who've had the opportunity of studying abroad and seeing how things work there, can comfortably sit by and say YES! Abolish vernacular schools? well, you have to remember that because of the donations rick taukes give to the schools, these schools are some of the best in the country, tho badly funded by the government but well-funded by private donors.

Abolish MRSM? You are going to get killed by UMNO and PAS partisans. It is one of those institutions aimed at giving bumis, especially those from poor villages with bad infrastructure, a little more help, and a head start in senior high school. I don't see why it should be abolished if it's going to help rural MAlays develop. Also, if you want to foster racial unity, open up MRSM equally to non-Malays. In fact, they've already started doing that. Kudos to the pioneers. They do need to admit more non-bumis though. MRSM can be one of those institutions fostering competitiveness in Malaysia. I mean students need to be challenged and where better to challenge them than to put all the smart ones together?

Stop agama schools? Hmmm, as a non-Muslim I don't want to comment on that. However, I do think that if unchecked, those schools will breed religious fundamentalism. After all, it's no big secret that agama schools are PAS strongholds. I'm sorry but it's hard for me to disassociate PAS from religious fundamentalism, especially after you see what they write about BN on their flyers. I think it's important that Muslim students attend agama schools (also applicable to other religions for that matter.) They can do it in the afternoons after their normal school hours, like what most of my Malay friends did. I don't see why they should have special agama schools, that obviously would alienate non-Muslims. Having said that, I do realize that some students may want to go on the route to becoming ulamas and the likes. However, don't you think primary school or even secondary school is too early a time for students to have really decided what they want to do with their lives? If they want to become religious leaders, by all means do support their studies in religion in universities. Just don't see why they have to specialize that early.

OK. So this is my overextended reply to what yall have said. Third, i disagree with your theory of people going to schools according to where they stay. The exact system here in the US is fraught with problems. You find people finding houses in good school districts. What will then happen? Those good school districts will become more expensive and be occupied by rich people. The good school wil then be attended by rich kids, leaving the poor schools with poor funding. This is also because the school taxes are derived from their district residents. Very very skewed system that should never be implemented in Malaysia if we want people to have equal access to education.

Have you all heard about the inequality in Malaysia. According to the Human Development Report by the UN, Malaysia has an rich-poor inequality margin of 20++, higher than US (16). And I thought US is bad! Definitely an issue that needs to be addressed as well, although the poor in Msia tend to be better off than poor Americans. We have higher purchasing power parity since our currency is cheaper. Also, the ppl in kampungs tend to be more socially supportive of each other than the poor Americans who live in city slumps. However, there's also this issue of rumah setinggan, which highlights the inequality in Msia. Funny, the govt always potrayed the rumah setinggans as a problem of the ppl, not of the govt. REmember how we were taught that rumah setinggans were built by illegal immigrants who are a pest to our country and should be shipped back however cruelly. I definitely think there are Malaysians who live in rumah setinggan as well and the govt's plan of low cost housing is good in the sense that those houses will help those poor homeless people.

[jiinjoo]

The current syllabus in Malaysian Chinese vernacular school is set by the Ministry of Education
Yes - mostly, but the vernicular schools have their own committee to submit a proposal for the ministry to approve. My mum was on such a working committee before during the "skip standard 4" thingy to redesign the syllabus.

The car of a Chinese-Malaysian Penangnite(My friend) who can only speak English and Hokkien(common dialect in Penang) broke down in Klang Valley. A Chinese-Malaysian mechanic from KL who can only speak Mandarin and Cantonese(common dialect in Klang Valley) came across and willing to help the Penangnite. Guess how did they communicate? Yes, BM boleh. So izzit important for a Chinese to learn Mandarin?
Excellent story :) From my point of view - Mandarin is not most people's mother tongue. This is an outdated debate, but the definition of a mother tongue is the first language you speak after you were born. For me it is Hokkien. Mandarin has been chosen to be taught in schools and nothing else for unity reasons, either amongst Malaysians or with other Chinese around the world. Beijing knew this half a century ago. Our government 40 years ago also knew what Beijing was up to, and decided to follow suit, switching everything to Han Yu Pin Ying, and simplified characters.

But still, it's the best we got in terms of carrying the heritage. One fortunate things is that almost all dialects have similar written form.


My story is pretty similar to Chen Chow's, just that we pay less (RM20 if I remember correctly) and go out to find donation more. Still remember those days of walking around aimlessly with a milo tin and a certificate from school while looking for money around coffee shops.

To Thirdshifter - hehe we'll fix it don't worry, even if it takes a life time. You'll have to read the history of Dong Jiao Zong and their "heros" in education to see what these people have contributed.

ElansarGelmir, MARA schools are not vernacular schools. Oh yeah, they are HEAVILY funded by the govt, not just monetarily, that's the problem.

Third, i disagree with your theory of people going to schools according to where they stay. The exact system here in the US is fraught with problems. You find people finding houses in good school districts. What will then happen? Those good school districts will become more expensive and be occupied by rich people. The good school wil then be attended by rich kids, leaving the poor schools with poor funding. This is also because the school taxes are derived from their district residents. Very very skewed system that should never be implemented in Malaysia if we want people to have equal access to education.
A proposal instead is to send the teachers to these school in the rural area, which is what our ministry is doing. Teachers are in this rotation thing, if you want a raise, you'll have to rotate, from bandar to kampung, kampung to bandar etc. Our education funding is from the government as far as possible, since it is our education ministry's mandate to provide "free education" to all. This is good because we tax the rich people in the higher tax bracket and desseminate them to the poorer schools. Moving people all over the place increase the amount of traffic on the streets, prolong the time travelling for students, wasting everyone's time. Nevertheless, I agree that we need to tackle the gap between the rich and the poor, but definitely not by reshuffling our students inside out. Parents need to stop cheating by using someone else's address to get into branded schools.

[Thirdshifter]

Have we forgot that in Malaysia there's no such thing called Town Taxes. In Malaysia all public schools are funded directly by the federal goverment under The State Goverments Advice.

All money would be disturbuted fairly to all schools. The Rich part of the Country would receive the exact funding, Maybe less considering all the parents would be able to afford text books and contribute finacially to the school.

Schools in much more poorer areas would get more attention and better trained teachers.

Today, schools such as Penang free school. Victoria Institute gets a lot more compared to others. Reason is? The kids are smarter. This is indeed where the real problem lies. UPSR, PMR is not in my opinion anyway of showing how good a student, how much potential is there in a student.

Again, The whole education system in MAlaysia is a mess. If i was giving the full authority to change it. It would start with the elimination of goverment funding to vernacular schools, Followed by disbrading all MRSM and Religious Schools. Turning all into one big giant Chain, a-la Mc Donald.

Everyone would be provided with the same brand of cheese, Bun and the beef patty would also be equally thick.

To students who do great in school, well good for you. Hope you make it to a good university. There's no reason to give any over achiving students an extra hand. It is the slackers that needs it.

We need to create an education sytem where it would work for everybody. I see to many young Malaysian finishing their secondary school with absolutely nothing. Its a shame and it should be corrected as soon as posible by us. Lets not hope badawi is going to do it. He won't.

[__earth]

Abolish MRSM? You are going to get killed by UMNO and PAS partisans. It is one of those institutions aimed at giving bumis, especially those from poor villages with bad infrastructure, a little more help, and a head start in senior high school. I don't see why it should be abolished if it's going to help rural MAlays develop. Also, if you want to foster racial unity, open up MRSM equally to non-Malays. In fact, they've already started doing that. Kudos to the pioneers. They do need to admit more non-bumis though. MRSM can be one of those institutions fostering competitiveness in Malaysia. I mean students need to be challenged and where better to challenge them than to put all the smart ones together?

Let me explain my position on this.

My argument is that any government policy or body or anything funded by the government should be racially blinded. In a secular government, it should also be religiously blind, if that is a kosher term.

This argument comes from the idea that any private citizen's moral is none of the government business. The government should not actively pursue any policy that is biased to a fraction of its people. This is because the government is supposed to represent the whole people instead of fraction of the people. At the same time, everybody is equal and everybody should have the same rights.

Therefore, nobody, not the Malay with their special rights nor the Chinese or the Indian with their vernacular system. We are all Malaysians. No more, no less.

MARA is not a vernacular system but MARA seems to limit its assistance to the Bumiputra. That's why it must go or at least it needs to relook at its policy and like you have said, expands its arms to the whole Malaysian sphere.

Stop agama schools? Hmmm, as a non-Muslim I don't want to comment on that. However, I do think that if unchecked, those schools will breed religious fundamentalism. After all, it's no big secret that agama schools are PAS strongholds. I'm sorry but it's hard for me to disassociate PAS from religious fundamentalism, especially after you see what they write about BN on their flyers. I think it's important that Muslim students attend agama schools (also applicable to other religions for that matter.) They can do it in the afternoons after their normal school hours, like what most of my Malay friends did. I don't see why they should have special agama schools, that obviously would alienate non-Muslims. Having said that, I do realize that some students may want to go on the route to becoming ulamas and the likes. However, don't you think primary school or even secondary school is too early a time for students to have really decided what they want to do with their lives? If they want to become religious leaders, by all means do support their studies in religion in universities. Just don't see why they have to specialize that early.

Sekolah Agama Rakyat in essense, is similar to any vernacular system. It can only exist with one condition - when it is privately funded. Any vernacular styled-school can be allowed to exist as long as it is privately funded too. The government non-involvement in such a way is important to promote a non-bias society. Fundamentally, it is in line with the first premise of which I have said in the second paragraph of which in turn originate from the idea of ?galit?, Fraternit?, Libert?.

you guys are radical, to say the least! do you know what a dissolvement of chinese/tamil vernacular schools, MRSM and agama schools will do? It will raise a huge ruckus from all sectors of the society!!! everyone will protest! only people like you and me, people who've had the opportunity of studying abroad and seeing how things work there, can comfortably sit by and say YES! Abolish vernacular schools? well, you have to remember that because of the donations rick taukes give to the schools, these schools are some of the best in the country, tho badly funded by the government but well-funded by private donors.

I do not think that anybody who supports such re-establishment is a radical. Rather, they are a bunch of liberals. And I am sure these liberals know the immediate repercussion due to this suggestion. But these liberals are looking at the issue in a longer horizon. We do not want to see a racially divided Malaysia. It's better to see people getting mad now than seeing disunity among Malaysians in the future.

[ElansarGelmir]

All money would be disturbuted fairly to all schools. The Rich part of the Country would receive the exact funding, Maybe less considering all the parents would be able to afford text books and contribute finacially to the school.

Schools in much more poorer areas would get more attention and better trained teachers.

Today, schools such as Penang free school. Victoria Institute gets a lot more compared to others. Reason is? The kids are smarter. This is indeed where the real problem lies. UPSR, PMR is not in my opinion anyway of showing how good a student, how much potential is there in a student.


Think again, dude. Or at least, that's what I've perceived through 11 years of education in my area. The proportion of funds given by the govt is equal to the proportion of races in each school. The higher percentage of Malay students the school has, the higher the govt will fund them. PFS, VI? They depend heavily on their alumni. So does my school. We are not that as equally funded by the govt as the schools like SMK Gua Perahu, where the students are 95% Malays. They just ask for some computers, the next week, they would be receiving 30 brand new comps from the govt. Convent BM asked govt to build a shelter for the overhead bridge which the students use to cross to get to the other side of the road, especially during raining days, and all they got from the govt is an approval to ask for donations. Convent BM is not richer than the Gua Perahu, so why the inequality of funding?

[soul_out]

Yeah Elansar. This is the real situation in Malaysia. Do not forget to mention that if the principle/headmistress is a Malay, they will make sure that every class has a certain number of Malay students albeit they are not supposed to be in that class according to their acedemic results. This is what happend in PFS, BM High and SM Ibrahim, SP. What about other non-vernacular government schools?

If the education system is generalised and everybody go to the same type of school irrespective of races, racial unity in the school is worth considering. Not only students, but acedemic staffs. The movie "Remember the Titans" suddenly came across my mind. Only 2 consequences followed by the generalisation of Malaysia education system. It's either a "Real" racial harmony Malaysia can be seen or something worse might happen.

I think if BN really play their role as the representative of all races, an equal opportunity education system can be realised. The awareness of all Malaysian politicians and citizens on this issue is important.

[gal_flower]

i donno where i fit in in tis debate, but let me say a few things:

both my parents know nuts abt chinese...but i guess coz of convenience n my grandparents' influence, we all went to a buddhist kindergarten... which was fine since parents from all different religions send their kids there ( though percentage-wise it's uneven). then my parents wanted to sent my elder sis to s srjk. i haf no idea wad made them change their mind--she ended up in a chung hua school. then my parents tot i shud go to srjk....then coz of inconvenience, i ended up in chung hua school too....n so did all the rest of my siblings. my parents think tad the chung hua school does a good job.

not only chinese parents attest to tad, u noe. my primary school had malay students as well. even to the extend tad my headmaster opened an agama class specially for them though their numbers were meagre.
i'm not quite sure how things work over at peninsular malaysia but vernacular schools in sarawak refers mostly to chinese-aid schools (coz indians are not many here). and most of us who were in chung hua primary school end up in SMK for high school.

i think it is not a matter of 'duty' to learn our mother tongue, or a matter of whether mandarin is our mother tongue since we are MALAYSIANS. so is it us tad took malay as mother tongue in spore considered as malaysians? i don think so. it is more of our rights for choice. our parents want to make the best choice they think is best for us. do ppl actually thinking abolishing vernacular school will destroy all racist and unhappy sentiments? tad is so naive! it is not something, not a change tad can be done overnight and be expected to be received by everyone.

i took chinese up till PMR...my school n many other SMK schools do offer chinese as a subject during class hours excpet for SPM level where classes are conducted after school (2 hours a week)...i was not too happy at first at having to continue taking a subject which i suck at... but now i'm so thankful i did not give it up...it's useful...it's not as if it's a language which is irrelevant or dying out...it's not only busines...its also about communication...communicating wif those who can only speak mandarin...like the elderly for ex...there's no harm learning an extra language....

in sarawak...chinese-aid students not necessarily equate to non-english speakin students....in fact, some of them speak perfectly well in english...

is a national school THE solution? not even those who are not from chinese schools can speak malay or english properly...

-----juz my gibberish tots-----

[Thirdshifter]

Think again, dude. Or at least, that's what I've perceived through 11 years of education in my area. The proportion of funds given by the govt is equal to the proportion of races in each school. The higher percentage of Malay students the school has, the higher the govt will fund them. PFS, VI? They depend heavily on their alumni. So does my school. We are not that as equally funded by the govt as the schools like SMK Gua Perahu, where the students are 95% Malays. They just ask for some computers, the next week, they would be receiving 30 brand new comps from the govt. Convent BM asked govt to build a shelter for the overhead bridge which the students use to cross to get to the other side of the road, especially during raining days, and all they got from the govt is an approval to ask for donations. Convent BM is not richer than the Gua Perahu, so why the inequality of funding?

Ever heard of the term, Sekolah Pilihan ? PFS and VI are in this category. I think SMK Gua Perahu is too. They are well funded and provided with some of the best most experienced teachers in Malaysia. My Kampung is Just across the Street from PFS. My Gradfather went to PFS. I don't think he ever spared one penny for that school.

These school recruit their students on the base of their achievements in UPSR and sometime exclusively Athletes.
It is no secret that these schools excell both in sports and education. I'm sure you know how good Gua perahu Soccer team is.

What i'm suggesting is, Our current goverment is not putting the fund where it's needed. THe majority of Malaysian does not qualify to these Selected schools. Almost 90% of our secondary students are from poorly funded SMK. SM Convent is lucky to have a huge base of Alumni, but i'm sure not all SRJ could claim the same.

What about SRJ - Tamil. Oh, I forgot those Rubber estate workers must be contributing every month.

I'm not here to defend any school and their validity. I'm here to say that all of our school including the people in the Education ministries needs a wake up call and correct this problems. We need to get the education system fixed. It had failed so many Malaysians and i'm surprised we don't hear to much about it.

Let's start a recom real project. Lets take the streets and do a campaign. Create awareness. I'll be in Malaysia this June`July. Maybe longer.

Print thousands of fliers and give it to as many as you can. Recom has to do something dramatic and drastic to get our opinion heard.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Ever heard of the term, Sekolah Pilihan ? PFS and VI are in this category. I think SMK Gua Perahu is too. They are well funded and provided with some of the best most experienced teachers in Malaysia.

This is very true indeed. Before political intervention, these schools were on par with missionary schools. But after that, the govt came and made these schools sekolah pilihan, showered them with lotsa TLC (tender loving care) and money, but in the process forgot about missionary schools who produced results which were just as good. I remember something a Catholic brother from St Francis Melaka, Brother Michael Kum (I bet you know this guy, topdog) once told me. He said these schools are always situated near missionary schools and get lotsa govt funding. And boy, does he hate them. For example, SFI's rival (not sure if I used the right term or not) is SM King George V, SJI KL's rival is VI, SXI Penang's rival is PFS, etc. Even here in Taiping, my school SGI has a well funded rival in SM King Edward VII. I'm not exactly sure what the good brother is trying to say, but I have a feeling he's implying that the govt is funding these schools virtually out of their own pockets in an effort to smash missionary schools to pulp.

Let's start a recom real project. Lets take the streets and do a campaign. Create awareness. I'll be in Malaysia this June`July. Maybe longer.

Print thousands of fliers and give it to as many as you can. Recom has to do something dramatic and drastic to get our opinion heard.

This is a great idea, but will everyone support it openly? Most people probably do not disagree with us, but are more afraid of the consequences (ISA, police action, etc.) of participating. What can we do to sway their minds?

[topdog]

oh yeah, bro michael. great guy. he's the only active one left in my school. the former principal retired 6/7 years ago (and was replaced by prince's dad:)). another bro, an 80-something irishman, died 3 years ago. are there any more bros in your school, uss?

[Thirdshifter]

Just to futher piss of the Muslim/Malays i would move all Islamic study to be an after the school class. J

[topdog]

i think any which way you look at it, the current education system cannot remain forever. i'm not saying there's an easy solution in sight. well, having nationalized public schools where everyone is equal sounds great on paper (i'm a firm supporter of this dream), but until other issues are dealt with decisively, it will remain just that, a dream.

but i do think the least we could do now is to admit that the entire education system is divisive. we could write encyclopedias trying to justify the preservation of this system but the fact remains that it is divisive. forget about politics, race, culture, heritage, discrimination, distrust, blabla for the moment and just think about how the malays, chinese and indians generally don't come into contact unless they absolutely have to. we're like strangers living under the same roof. and people want to spend millions to go overseas to learn about other cultures. it's ridiculous and pathetic. agreed?

[ElansarGelmir]

Ever heard of the term, Sekolah Pilihan ? PFS and VI are in this category. I think SMK Gua Perahu is too. They are well funded and provided with some of the best most experienced teachers in Malaysia. My Kampung is Just across the Street from PFS. My Gradfather went to PFS. I don't think he ever spared one penny for that school.


Hmm... dunno about sekolah pilihan... Is it the same as premiere schools (sekolah perdana)?

[__earth]

Ever heard of the term, Sekolah Pilihan ? PFS and VI are in this category. I think SMK Gua Perahu is too. They are well funded and provided with some of the best most experienced teachers in Malaysia. My Kampung is Just across the Street from PFS. My Gradfather went to PFS. I don't think he ever spared one penny for that school.


Hmm... dunno about sekolah pilihan... Is it the same as premiere schools (sekolah perdana)?

most premiere schools are sekolah pilihan but premiere schools are not sekolah pilihan per se.

[ElansarGelmir]

Ever heard of the term, Sekolah Pilihan ? PFS and VI are in this category. I think SMK Gua Perahu is too. They are well funded and provided with some of the best most experienced teachers in Malaysia. My Kampung is Just across the Street from PFS. My Gradfather went to PFS. I don't think he ever spared one penny for that school.


Hmm... dunno about sekolah pilihan... Is it the same as premiere schools (sekolah perdana)?

most premiere schools are sekolah pilihan but premiere schools are not sekolah pilihan per se.

But must sekolah pilihans be a premiere school first?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

But must sekolah pilihans be a premiere school first?

I doubt that. If there was a criteria that says sekolah pilihan must be a premiere school first, then missionary schools would fit the description 'premiere schools' perfectly. Unless of course, premiere schools have a totally different meaning from what I'm thinking.

[__earth]

to my knowledge, premiere schools are the schools that were established before 1957.

[soul_out]

The SMJK that i used to go is also a "selected school", but i'm not sure whether izzit in the list of government's "sekolah pilihan" or "sekolah perdana". However, it is badly funded by government as well like other SMJK, but the state goverment did help the school in purchasing extra land to expend the school compound, but that was before the general election...lol...

[ElansarGelmir]

to my knowledge, premiere schools are the schools that were established before 1957.

Oh, no wonder my school's a premiere school. It was founded in 1957. Hehe...