Yes or No to QUOTAS

[matchgirl]

For applying government scholarships, there is a certain quota which ensure that a certain amount of places are allocated for bumiputeras. Is this necessary? Or do you think this rule should be abolished for equality of all races??

[vseehua]

Thread moved to the debates section

[farah17491]

huhu..i smell something fishy here..huhu..i voted for social harmony..will elaborate more later

weakness is prowess

[jayden]

Simple answer: No. Duh.

Longer answer: I do agree that it is inevitable at the moment. The quota system is too deeply ingrained into our country's education system. But we are talking about education here. Race actually should have nothing to do with it. Whatever happened to Bangsa Malaysia? It should all be about results, co-curiculum and personality. IQ and EQ.

[youngyew]

At the moment it's rather impossible to eliminate the concept of quota, due to the ingrained racial culture in our country. Everything is judged and acted upon based on race. In such a system, if you do anything that's not according to race, it will only stir the hornet's nest.

However, in the long run, if we want to build a prosperous and united nation, then quota system should be gradually phased out. Talking about "bangsa malaysia" is simply preposterous when there is an obvious affirmative action in place. But it will take a while to happen, if it does happen at all.

[megatfais]

m so sorry but i really think ur post is kinda offensive.

[ronaldo7]

we cant deny da quota things is obvious...but then if there is quota,why does the government make the policy-10a1 withn income 1500 sure get it?thats what i dont understand

[vseehua]

I don't think so. There are the poor amongst all ethnics and I believe all of them should be helped ragardless of skin colour.

The problem now is that we are so ingrained with the racial stereotypes mentality that the government had been promoting to us that we feel offended if anything is said against the "policy to protect the people." To create a united country that is made out of so many different races and cultures we need equality.

the bumiputra dan lain-lain mentality should go.

[ronaldo7]

I don't think so. There are the poor amongst all ethnics and I believe all of them should be helped ragardless of skin colour.

The problem now is that we are so ingrained with the racial stereotypes mentality that the government had been promoting to us that we feel offended if anything is said against the "policy to protect the people." To create a united country that is made out of so many different races and cultures we need equality.

the bumiputra dan lain-lain mentality should go.

means that the policy is for bumis?or for all races?

[vseehua]

means that the policy is for bumis?or for all races?
The policy that more should be given to the bumiputra and less for the others.

[ronaldo7]

The policy that more should be given to the bumiputra and less for the others.

is it your own opinion?

[vseehua]

is it your own opinion?
yes it's my own opinion...

[ronaldo7]

yes it's my own opinion...

oh...but why should be given more to bumis??

[vseehua]

oh...but why should be given more to bumis??
read my post again. Since when did i say it should be given more to determined ethnics?

[ronaldo7]

The policy that more should be given to the bumiputra and less for the others.

what it means?

[vseehua]

what it means?
New Economic Policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_New_Economic_Policy)

[youngyew]

m so sorry but i really think ur post is kinda offensive.
Mind elaborating on that?

Before anyone repeats the same old arguments again, have a read through these threads:

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5055
(Siapa bodoh,Malas, tamak. Melayu, Cina atau India?)

Another thread:
http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5001
Affirmative Actions & National Unity

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3965
Malaysia for Malaysians... my A**..

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3135
May 13th - A day to remember or to forget?

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2419
Motherland for Chinese - Malaysia or China?

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1237
From the eyes of children - Bangsa Malaysia is a fallacy

[Danial]

wow....this really can create racial tension. However i believe all this matter had been solved during the declaration of independence of Malaya. This is what they ( Tunku Abdul Rahman, Tun Abdul Razak, Tun Tan Cheng Lock, Tun H. S. Lee, and Tun V. T. Sambathan) agreed upon in the Federal Of Malaya Agreement.

[youngyew]

The special rights etc were laid down in constitution; but people have disputed about some abuse. Here is a post in one of the threads I mentioned above:

http://recom.org/forum/showpost.php?p=122486

[yummyummylicious]

For applying government scholarships, there is a certain quota which ensure that a certain amount of places are allocated for bumiputeras. Is this necessary? Or do you think this rule should be abolished for equality of all races??

IMO, of course it should be abolished...scholarships are for deserving students...!!!
I got to know about some bumis in my school who got 3A and some Bs and
Cs in SPM2007, and they applied for Matriculation (*assume this is a gov scholarship too)..they got it while those chinese who got 12A1 or 11A1 or 10A1 got rejected...does this make any sense??? this is the what happen when of certain kuota is given to certain ppl...:mad
i am not trying to be offensive or whateva, but pls be fair to us too...we are part of the community too...

[farah17491]

the post is offensive...
put a stop to it

STOP

malaysia if made up of unity

cuba kamu fikirkan betapa susah wira dahulu memerdekakan tanah melayu,sekarang kita sesama kita bertegang lidah ke arah menghancurkan Malaysia?

[megatfais]

I agree that the bumiputera and lain2 mentality shud be wiped off en route to a united Malaysia.but please dun make it is as if we the bumis are to be blamed for that.my apologies if m being too sensitive.theres no such thing as racial culture,it?s a policy.and no,not everything is dependant to ur race.and bare in mind that the majority of people in Malaysia consists of bumis.therefore I can see the logic of making quotas,but that was back in 1957.now,this policy is out of date and its doing more bad than good thus needing to be reviewed.there was no time limit set for the policy,I guess its d time to make a change on that.

[youngyew]

megatfais and farah17491, would you mind to specify the posts you are referring to as "offensive""? It's really hard to tell when it's a long thread with multiple posts from multiple authors.

Anyway I wasn't blaming it on the bumi, and I did write a very long piece last time (in one of the threads above) which should be relevant to this thread:

http://recom.org/forum/showpost.php?p=123333

[insertusername]

megatfais and farah17491, would you mind to specify the posts you are referring to as "offensive""? It's really hard to tell when it's a long thread with multiple posts from multiple authors.

Anyway I wasn't blaming it on the bumi, and I did write a very long piece last time (in one of the threads above) which should be relevant to this thread:

http://recom.org/forum/showpost.php?p=123333
I think he's talking about the OP

[Danial]

I think they mean that this thread is offensive and can create racial tension. Clearly, we do not want to create 13th May in the cyber world do we?

[vseehua]

the post is offensive...
put a stop to it

STOP

malaysia if made up of unitystating something is offensive without justifying it properly won't do any good to your argument. There is a silent growth of racial tensions due to the quota policy, whether you've noticed it or not.

No, keeping silent on such things won't help it, it will only make it worse. Imagine what happens when you increase the pressure or a pressure cooker indefinitely. It might look ok for a while, eventually it will burst...

I agree that the bumiputera and lain2 mentality shud be wiped off en route to a united Malaysia.but please dun make it is as if we the bumis are to be blamed for that.my apologies if m being too sensitive.theres no such thing as racial culture,it?s a policy.and no,not everything is dependant to ur race.and bare in mind that the majority of people in Malaysia consists of bumis.therefore I can see the logic of making quotas,but that was back in 1957.now,this policy is out of date and its doing more bad than good thus needing to be reviewed.there was no time limit set for the policy,I guess its d time to make a change on that.Did I lay any of the blame on anyone on this matter, except on the government that plays the racial card for it's own "good"?

The very fact that these kinds of threads being created all the time signifies the magnitude of the problem that exists right now in Malaysia. The people can only tolerate so much of discrimination on themselves... I wouldn't be surprised when yet another May the 13th happens in the near future precisely because of such a situation if the government don't (want to) realize it's undoing...

[youngyew]

Personally I don't think the OP or the thread is offensive at all. Possibly people are not used to the idea of free speech, but hey, sweeping a time bomb under the carpet and pretend that there isn't a time bomb, is not the way to defuse a bomb at all.

By the way, if you have some 30 minutes to spare, listen to how Barack Obama clearly delineates the point that the first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge the existence of the problem and be able to face it bravely and openly, instead of hiding in the obscurity of "hey it's a sensitive issue, hush hush". It's about the african american in US, but the message should be applicable to us as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrp-v2tHaDo)

[capablanca]

I think they mean that this thread is offensive and can create racial tension. Clearly, we do not want to create 13th May in the cyber world do we?
Phah, can you even identify the races of other people in the cyberworld? For all I know, we are just Bangsa Malaysia.

[syafiq07]

I try to be as fair as possible for my view...

To begin with, scholarship is part of education,and many would agrees the most of the implementation of NEP policy is through education.Since NEP is clearly all about the bumi's(in this case,the malays)rights.So don't you think scholarship is all about malay's privileges?

And if I am not mistake,JPA is only limited exclusively for the malays for a very long time.JPA only opened up more places to non-bumis in the late 90's and given 20% to non-bumi's situation at the moment is clearly an improvement,right?

In general, I?m pretty sure that most Malays still defend their Bumiputra privileges while the other races oppose them because they believe that it is an unfair practice.

But personally, I still prefer Meritocracy.

How I wish Malays could stand on their own feet. I want that too. I want to be proud of my race. I don't want no handicap in this competition. I want to win it fair and square so that I can taste the pride and glory of our achievement.

[Caprio]

The discussion here is getting heated up.

In my opinion, I think that the government should not impose any quota in awarding a sccholarship. In today's globalized world, all scholarship awards should be made based on meritocracy. Only then a fair and competitive environment exists.

The quota system imposed not only lowers the competency of the bumis, it also made the bumis think that they are the elites. They will not go all out and strive for excellence.

I would like to quote an example. For those bumis who are SPM leavers, they don't need worry much about their future. The worst thing is that they go to Matriks and later end up in a local public university. For the non-bumis, they need to plan the future themselves. If a person comes from a poverty-stricken family with a not-so-good result, what can he do? Stop continuing his study and start working in order to assist his family financially? Or going to Form6 where you future is vague? Try and think.

[fuzzy47]

any malays not meeting the requirement set by jpa got the scholarship so far? u kno that minimim A2 for at least 7 or 8 subjcts with b3 4 some. or all bumi recepients meets dis prerequisite??? heck a bumi guy even got 20A1 la...isnt it the sponsors prerogative to select whoever dey 1 as recepient of the scholarship???

i have a chinese frend who got 9As 2Bs (B for Physics and EST) but she got shortlisted for the interview coz she picked science. but i have a bumi frend who got 9As 1B (B for BM) and she didnt get shortlisted! i know what im saying disgress abit from the main thread that is bout quota but wat i see most recommers think that bumis getting scholarship dun actually qualify. in other words, you think them stupid/not good enough.

my mum spoke to JPA officers and its all bout the actual marks..meaning not how many A1s u get but the quality of the A.

[Miracle_seed]

any malays not meeting the requirement set by jpa got the scholarship so far? u kno that minimim A2 for at least 7 or 8 subjcts with b3 4 some. or all bumi recepients meets dis prerequisite??? heck a bumi guy even got 20A1 la...isnt it the sponsors prerogative to select whoever dey 1 as recepient of the scholarship???

i have a chinese frend who got 9As 2Bs (B for Physics and EST) but she got shortlisted for the interview coz she picked science. but i have a bumi frend who got 9As 1B (B for BM) and she didnt get shortlisted! i know what im saying disgress abit from the main thread that is bout quota but wat i see most recommers think that bumis getting scholarship dun actually qualify. in other words, you think them stupid/not good enough.

my mum spoke to JPA officers and its all bout the actual marks..meaning not how many A1s u get but the quality of the A.
It's true that all bumis who got JPA meet the requirements, the main issue here is non-bumis who have the equal or better qualification do not secure the scholarship...

[megatfais]

The discussion here is getting heated up.

In my opinion, I think that the government should not impose any quota in awarding a sccholarship. In today's globalized world, all scholarship awards should be made based on meritocracy. Only then a fair and competitive environment exists.

The quota system imposed not only lowers the competency of the bumis, it also made the bumis think that they are the elites. They will not go all out and strive for excellence.

I would like to quote an example. For those bumis who are SPM leavers, they don't need worry much about their future. The worst thing is that they go to Matriks and later end up in a local public university. For the non-bumis, they need to plan the future themselves. If a person comes from a poverty-stricken family with a not-so-good result, what can he do? Stop continuing his study and start working in order to assist his family financially? Or going to Form6 where you future is vague? Try and think.

wat did u mean by not-so-good results?clarify on that please.

[Caprio]

wat did u mean by not-so-good results?clarify on that please.

The result is not outstanding, but not too lousy either. Get what I mean here? I hope you do.:)

[matchgirl]

At the moment it's rather impossible to eliminate the concept of quota, due to the ingrained racial culture in our country. Everything is judged and acted upon based on race. In such a system, if you do anything that's not according to race, it will only stir the hornet's nest.

However, in the long run, if we want to build a prosperous and united nation, then quota system should be gradually phased out. Talking about "bangsa malaysia" is simply preposterous when there is an obvious affirmative action in place. But it will take a while to happen, if it does happen at all.

talking about phased out.fifty years had passed, and nothing had changed...

I don't think so. There are the poor amongst all ethnics and I believe all of them should be helped ragardless of skin colour.

The problem now is that we are so ingrained with the racial stereotypes mentality that the government had been promoting to us that we feel offended if anything is said against the "policy to protect the people." To create a united country that is made out of so many different races and cultures we need equality.

the bumiputra dan lain-lain mentality should go.

you are rite...and sometimes i feel so frustated with the MPs who claimed to be fighting for equality...they say they want Malaysia for Malaysians, but when some issues arise, they will start to say"I speak for the Indians","I repreent the Chinese community",etc etc...
why cant they say i speak for Malaysians??

and talk about races,if you want integrated society, with no discrimination and pure equality, why must all government forms have a column for Races??

the post is offensive...
put a stop to it

STOP

malaysia if made up of unity

offensive to who??
to Malaysians who want a FAIR country?

Phah, can you even identify the races of other people in the cyberworld? For all I know, we are just Bangsa Malaysia.

I agree...
101%

[vseehua]

and talk about races,if you want integrated society, with no discrimination and pure equality, why must all government forms have a column for Races??

In Germany i noticed that the forms are much much simpler than the standard malaysian form. We don't have columns for race, religion, age (to be derived from birthdate, duh!) or even gender... As a result, filling up forms are much much easier as we don't have to flip through pages of papers. Most of the forms only takes up one page at most...

[matchgirl]

well,i have malay friends with excellent results and personalities and deserves a scholarship.
bu the problem is there are also many who does not deserve the scholarship but getting it just because of skin colour...

in my book the quota does not help to unify malaysians...but it cause further split among races...

In Germany i noticed that the forms are much much simpler than the standard malaysian form. We don't have columns for race, religion, age (to be derived from birthdate, duh!) or even gender... As a result, filling up forms are much much easier as we don't have to flip through pages of papers. Most of the forms only takes up one page at most...

and in malaysia, you have to state your races, religion and that of your parents!!

[chiachean]

AS youngyew said earlier, it is stated in the constitution . IT is 1 of the privileges of being bumi (more specific, malay) . But, I have some friends who are really brilliant and excellent in studies dislike this kind of privilege. They dislike spoonfeeding by the government since they do have the ability to compete with other races evenhandedly...

My 2 cents

[matchgirl]

AS youngyew said earlier, it is stated in the constitution . IT is 1 of the privileges of being bumi (more specific, malay) . But, I have some friends who are really brilliant and excellent in studies dislike this kind of privilege. They dislike spoonfeeding by the government since they do have the ability to compete with other races evenhandedly...

My 2 cents

ya, its like telling them they are weaker, they cannot do w/o help...

[GuoSheng]

i have a chinese frend who got 9As 2Bs (B for Physics and EST) but she got shortlisted for the interview coz she picked science. but i have a bumi frend who got 9As 1B (B for BM) and she didnt get shortlisted! i know what im saying disgress abit from the main thread that is bout quota but wat i see most recommers think that bumis getting scholarship dun actually qualify. in other words, you think them stupid/not good enough.


One should get at least A2 for BM to be eligible for the JPA interview. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyways, I don't think anyone here has made a generalization that the bumis are inferior or smtg. And most of us are definitely aware that there are many smart bumis as well- who scored a sky high number of As.

But what most of us are discussing here, is the matter of deserving students being deprived of the opportunity as a result of quotas whether in scholarships, matrik, university admission etc.

And don't you deny it- you know yourself just how many bumis are being awarded a scholarship just because he or she is a bumi. But then again, just how many nons are being so lucky? Unless he or she has made it brilliantly in exams.
________
CHEVROLET MALIBU (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Malibu)

[youngyew]

Anyway to be frank, when you cancel the quota, probably only 5% of scholarships will go to the bumis and the rest to non-bumis. Najib once mentioned this number. What do you think will happen? Everyone will become happy, as we are now "Malaysians"?

No, I am not saying this to justify the quota, but I am only saying it's true that the quota IS a key factor in maintaining social harmony. Abolishing it abruptly is not going to do any good to the country, and this is why I am championing a gradual change. We need to have a government with enough determination to bring about this change, if we really want to see it happen.

[jingying]

Hows this :
--------------------------

Name: ammar
School Name: Federal Islamic 2ndary Skool, Kajang
Country: Korea
Major: engineering
Scholarship Gotten: Jpa
SPM Results: 6 a1,2 a2,2 b3, 1 b4 n 1 c5

this is quoted from
http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2006/05/scholarship-quotas.html

It shows the release of statistics(JPA quota) by Datuk Dr Abdullah Mat Zin, Minister in the Prime Minister's Department in Parliament, and published in Sin Chew Jit Poh

"Firstly the stats for overseas JPA scholarships start only in the year 2000. Some of the more recent JPA scholars that I've spoken to think that JPA opened up more places to non-bumis only after the 1999 elections. If this is true, then even having 20% is an improvement. And not reversing the trend after the 1999 elections is also an improvement.

Secondly, I'd like to suggest a transition plan from the current system to the one that Tony proposed. Instead of immediately transiting to a merit based system with a baseline quota (of 30% let's say for bumis), it makes more sense for JPA to have stepwise reductions in the current 70% quota for bumi students. Reduce that % every year by let's say 4% or 5%. Then it will take between 8 to 10 years to get to the 30% level that Tony was talking about. This way, there will be an incentive for bumi students to improve their performance given the expectations of a more competitive environment. The only problem is that to set these expectations, this kind of policy has got to be made public. And once it is made public, one can imagine how members of certain political parties would react" this is one of the comment left..

and i agree a transition plan should be made.why jpa existed?? (i dont know why) i supposed it is aimed for bumis initially (maybe in that time bumis weren't rich enough??they cant afford to study overseas like non-bumis??) but now everything has changed..we can see malays with mercedes.big houses..etc.etc..the finantial status among all races is almost the same now..since scenario has changed,so must the policy change,isnt it?
and we are talking about education now,where what we want is quality..QUALITY..we cant just mixed it up with races problem..but since jpa has this quota since early on it's not easy to abolish this system..so..what to do?

[megatfais]

wat year was that?

[GuoSheng]

Anyway to be frank, when you cancel the quota, probably only 5% of scholarships will go to the bumis and the rest to non-bumis. Najib once mentioned this number. What do you think will happen? Everyone will become happy, as we are now "Malaysians"?

No, I am not saying this to justify the quota, but I am only saying it's true that the quota IS a key factor in maintaining social harmony. Abolishing it abruptly is not going to do any good to the country, and this is why I am championing a gradual change. We need to have a government with enough determination to bring about this change, if we really want to see it happen.

i agree.

But the problem I get to know is the distribution of scholarships. Many times, we can see rich malay children getting scholarships for example MARA (loan perhaps, but what's the difference)

So, when will the root of problem is going to be solved when people are pulling strings all the time.

And besides, there are some privileged scholars are being quite arrogant as to think they truly deserve it because of merit. This kind of attitude irritates me.

wat year was that?

no matter what year was that, it is still not good enough.
________
HONDA VTX1800C (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_VTX1800C)

[youngyew]

I believe the strict answer you are looking for is "no idea". But then that doesn't make it less of a typical example of certain bumi JPA scholars' SPM results. There are indeed bumis with excellent results, but at the same time you can also find abundant examples of results as such.

And this is what I believe the answer Guo Sheng is trying to give.

[youngyew]

Members, you are free to continue your bantering if you think that they contribute greatly to this thread.

[syafiq07]

talking about phased out.fifty years had passed, and nothing had changed...
you are rite...and sometimes i feel so frustated with the MPs who claimed to be fighting for equality...they say they want Malaysia for Malaysians, but when some issues arise, they will start to say"I speak for the Indians","I repreent the Chinese community",etc etc...
why cant they say i speak for Malaysians??

and talk about races,if you want integrated society, with no discrimination and pure equality, why must all government forms have a column for Races??

well,i have malay friends with excellent results and personalities and deserves a scholarship.
bu the problem is there are also many who does not deserve the scholarship but getting it just because of skin colour...

in my book the quota does not help to unify malaysians...but it cause further split among races...


AS youngyew said earlier, it is stated in the constitution . IT is 1 of the privileges of being bumi (more specific, malay) . But, I have some friends who are really brilliant and excellent in studies dislike this kind of privilege. They dislike spoonfeeding by the government since they do have the ability to compete with other races evenhandedly...


And don't you deny it- you know yourself just how many bumis are being awarded a scholarship just because he or she is a bumi. But then again, just how many nons are being so lucky? Unless he or she has made it brilliantly in exams.


Im totally agrees with all stated above,couldn't be more accurate

To establish one ?Bangsa Malaysia?- How could this be achieved when the current politicians are persistently and firmly declaring that there WON?T be a ?Bangsa Malaysia? through its policy?

Frankly, I am indifferent between a bumi or a non-bumi representative. They still don't represent my views. The rep at my home changed but my well-being did not.

I don't think it is right to give bumi quotas for scholarship just because they are bumis. In my opinion, the reason for allocations based on bumi's privileges stems from a 'false sense of fairness'. I do not speak in vain. Looking at myself, I am very lucky to be born a Malay and to just recently received a scholarship because of my race (but not solely based on my race. I'm clever and gifted too. hehe). Allocating the outcome is not fair. Granting everyone the opportunity is.

What are bumi's rights anyway? How do they defer from non-bumi's rights? It would be much fair to have them both under a single human rights.

Anyway, this is a form of race discrimination. One that is pro-bumi and anti-non-bumis. The condemnation of patriarchy (bumi domination) is being abused. It is not rightfully used to achieve race equality but is instead used to turn the inequality the other way round. You couldn't apply to for mara scholarship because they are only for bumis but there are none which are exclusively for non-bumi(is it?).



talking about phased out.fifty years had passed, and nothing had changed...

as quoted above by matchgirl lead to my question,if you think that Bumiputra privileges are strongly relevant in this rapidly globalised world, then what are the weaknesses of that system?

but I beg to differ with these

Anyway to be frank, when you cancel the quota, probably only 5% of scholarships will go to the bumis and the rest to non-bumis. Najib once mentioned this number. What do you think will happen? Everyone will become happy, as we are now "Malaysians"?

No, I am not saying this to justify the quota, but I am only saying it's true that the quota IS a key factor in maintaining social harmony. Abolishing it abruptly is not going to do any good to the country, and this is why I am championing a gradual change. We need to have a government with enough determination to bring about this change, if we really want to see it happen.

chances that you assume we're that bad competitively maybe due to the effect of disappearance of bright malays in your areas..

you might want to take a look at this,
http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2007/02/national-schools-and-national-unity.html

fact:there are 2800 straight's A malay scorer in 2006 spm from sbp+mrsm.for iinstances there 150 straight's a student in mrsm langkawi alone(150 out of 300+ is not that bad right?)and there more than 80 boarding schools from these bodies(sbp and mrsm).

how absurd to even believe that there will only be 5% malay acquiring any type scholar given there's no quota for it.

regarding the blog I have provided the link with, you might want to know most of the sucessful malay that are currently holding top post in any companies do comes from boarding schools(mckk mostly)and it is very unlikely that any non-malay would even to came to know them during their schooldays


__________________

[chenchow]

On this issue, my personal argument is that as far as I know, the allocation of scholarship is done by point systems. And hence, in terms of academic wise, family income wise, co-curricular activities, it is all by point systems. So, there is no way for subjectivity to come in. The only possible ways of subjectivity is interview, which I would put it in such a case first.

On quota, since a few years ago, this has been scrapped for JPA Overseas Scholarships. For Matrics, there is still 90-10 quota, so lets not confuse on the two.

Over the years, we have seen the number of non-bumiputera getting the scholarships increase too. Last year, at least 600+ non-bumiputera got JPA Overseas Scholarships.

I know that many ReComers still choose to believe that there is still quota happening. I have no way to prove to you that it is otherwise, unless we can get hold of the data and show it.

What I want to write on would be on that a lot of non-bumiputera like to put the blame on quota, whenever they do not get a scholarship. In their mind, it is the "hidden hand" that caused them to not get the scholarships, especially if they are doing well academically.

Then, on the other hand, if any bumiputera does not get a scholarship, then these same people's perception is that they don't deserve the scholarship. Then, my question is why this double standard?

The same goes with those who didn't do as well academically and get the scholarships. When a non-bumiputera got it, they would just keep quiet or say that they deserve it. Whereas if a bumiputera falls under this category, then there would be noises of unfairness.

To be frank, all these have to stop. I know that when I am putting forth this argument, by stereotyping bumiputera and non-bumiputera, I am being racist myself. But I am doing it for the sake of showing example. It is a stereotyping that I am making and it is not fair to many out there for me to make this stereotype too.

But, I want to argue that for us, Malaysia to progress further, all of us, should look beyond racial line. We should look at each other as fellow Malaysian. I really want all ReComers not to look at another ReComer as of any race. it brings us no good at all. We try to help one another, and it should be irrespective of who the person is.

Why must we just lament on the situation, and not find ways to improve it. We could play our parts to help others.

On quota, my viewpoint is that it is not necessary. Some ReComers have pointed out of the ability of bumiputera and I fully agree with it. I have known so many bumiputera who are just equally as good, if not better. They deserve being treated in their own right, and not just being seen by others as having gotten the scholarships through quota and not by their own merit.

While I am not saying that everything is good and clear, we have to make a progressive step. We have to stand strong on our believe to create a better Malaysia, irrespective of race and religion. If we, the younger generation here, is not doing so, who else is going to shoulder this responsibility.

I hope that fellow ReComers would be constructive in your sharing and debating. It is an intellectual sharing, and I would say that if all of us are responsible in bringing forth our argument, there is nothing sensitive to discuss on this. We just need to be responsible. Before we post, think whether what we post is being doing justice to others.

[alepbing]

Hm, I however, support the existance of quotas. But just to inform, JPA did not stated the quotas of scholarships to any special races, so we cannot assume. Plus bumiputeras usually get MARA rather than JPA.

First of all, you should know that Bumiputera refers to Malays, Orang Asli and indigenous people of Sarawak and Sabah. The common misconception is that bumiputeras are only Malays. WRONG! Natives of Sarawak and Sabah, as well as Orang Aslis, enjoy discounts in housing and places allocations in public U and all.

I support the quotas not because of my own importance (trust me, nothing in my life that I have now is based on the quotas). I support is because if you see, there are Bumiputeras that are not well to-do (don't picture Malays at kampung, picture Orang Asli and those Sarawakians in the forest) that must receive the help from the government. Although I will not deny the mischief misuse of power by the people in charge *no names specified* Ok, less bragging,
I only support it IF this step is taken:

the quotas will be represented in percentage, by the real population percentage of the races. that will be fair. it means that, let say malays population in the country is 60% ( i think so, roughly), then 60% of the places and other accomodations will be granted to the malays. so is the rest.


So if you get my point, it means that it is fair to every race. They compete among their own race, since you can see the racial difference in backgrounds in our country. The Bangsa Malaysia can only exist if we, students I mean, take our own responsibilites. You know how? RETURN TO MALAYSIA AFTER YOU'VE DONE STUDYING ABROAD. hehe

I'm too lazy to type now, so i think i will post this on my blog (the longer and revised version i mean, so if you are interested, i'll update on sunday) bye

p/s: not promoting my blog, but im too sleepy and prefer to type out in my blog :P:P:P

chenchow, i think it is amazing for you to write such replies without any typical political-related statements and also how you perceive things with no doubts, as in you perceive in from the point of view as a man, not a chinese (you are right? hehe)

[youngyew]

chances that you assume we're that bad competitively maybe due to the effect of disappearance of bright malays in your areas..

you might want to take a look at this,
http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2007/02/national-schools-and-national-unity.html

fact:there are 2800 straight's A malay scorer in 2006 spm from sbp+mrsm.for iinstances there 150 straight's a student in mrsm langkawi alone(150 out of 300+ is not that bad right?)and there more than 80 boarding schools from these bodies(sbp and mrsm).

how absurd to even believe that there will only be 5% malay acquiring any type scholar given there's no quota for it.

regarding the blog I have provided the link with, you might want to know most of the sucessful malay that are currently holding top post in any companies do comes from boarding schools(mckk mostly)and it is very unlikely that any non-malay would even to came to know them during their schooldays


__________________

I stand corrected if 5% is far off the actual situation. I merely quoted it because I read it from Najib's statement a while ago. I guess it's really hard to speculate on the actual proportion of allocation if we disable the quota system, as we are not privy to the actual SPM result statistics according to race. We do have to compound in some factors like the number of some chinese candidates who are disadvantaged by the ridiculously low A1 in chinese paper (this thread (http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1701)) etc.

Anyway, regarding the "JPA has quota" claim, it's true at least up until a few years ago. It's addressed by a link given by jingying above: http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2006/05/scholarship-quotas.html

[yana89]

if u hv something valueble..would u share it wit other people...i think i would not...and if we hv to..there are sense of unwillingness...measures and rules would be laid out to safe guard our intrest..in this case..i want to appologise before hand as my statement maybe offensive...because of the decleration malaysian's independence...the bumi's (malay and also natives of sabah and sarawak)..were force to share our land and our wealth with immigrants (chinese and indians)...as this was the only way to achieve independence..if u were in our shoes would u be willing to?? i don't think so..and if u say yes..all of u are a bunch of hyppocrites..that's why the hak-hak keistimewaan was established in the perlembagaan..and do remember with the nod from all races...this may be harsh..again..it should not be question...and the quota system which i believe is part of the hak-hak keistimewaan..to me questioning the quota system is also like u challenging the perlembagaan..maybe u r wondering what happen to bangsa malaysia?...well although there is a bangsa malaysia...u can't deny that the bumi's were the original ppl here..it cannot be let go or forget that easily..the bumi's are not to lost on their own soil..it is already hard enough that they had had to share their land...that's why the quota system is immposed..and to me that is understandable...its only there to save guard the bumi's intrest..this should be understand by all..

i think the malaysian government has already been fair...malaysian are not been denied of education...not been denied of freedom of speech...not been denied from politics..also not be denied of economical wealth...to think about it...malaysian are more lucky compared to other countries..and with dat we all should be thankful...

and for malays...'malayu mudah lupa'....don't think that with quota u don't hv to strive and work hard...the quota is a privillage to us...don't misuse it...

btw i'm not trying to be racial here...

[youngyew]

My grandfather and grandmother were immigrants. My father and my mother, and my siblings, and my future kids, are NOT.

I understand and respect the constitution and the special rights clause contained within; but to harp onto "immigrant vs. native" mentality until today is not very dissimilar to white vs. black mentality.

[yana89]

My grandfather and grandmother were immigrants. My father and my mother, and my siblings, and my future kids, are NOT.

I understand and respect the constitution and the special rights clause contained within; but to harp onto "immigrant vs. native" mentality until today is not very dissimilar to white vs. black mentality.

if u really understand..then there should be no question to it....
and if u really respect the constituition and the special right clause...all of u are not suppose to be bickering about it..black vs white is trully and understatement...malaysian are far more better than their case...its just allocation of number of places of bumi's...that's all..the government still gives out scholarship out towards the non-bumi...and the bumi's don't hover negetive perception to the non-bumi's...we all live in harmony...that's a different case if compared to the 'white vs black mentality'..which are more far worst..

[lindley]

okay i may offend people here, but regarding the JPA scholarships?
the really poor ones dont get it, yet the middle-classed and all get it *for bumis*
anyway the quota system is really very unfair. some really deserving ones dont get it because of their skin colour.

as for the malays special rights, somehow i feel the other races agreed to it to prevent any racial 'disharmony', to just get independence. yes, bumis can have special rights, but when it comes to education, it shouldnt be this way. deprive those who deserve it just because of the quota system? it really is unfair isnt it?

[yana89]

okay i may offend people here, but regarding the JPA scholarships?
the really poor ones dont get it, yet the middle-classed and all get it *for bumis*
anyway the quota system is really very unfair. some really deserving ones dont get it because of their skin colour.

as for the malays special rights, somehow i feel the other races agreed to it to prevent any racial 'disharmony', to just get independence. yes, bumis can have special rights, but when it comes to education, it shouldnt be this way. deprive those who deserve it just because of the quota system? it really is unfair isnt it?

how do u know that the poors don't get it...??
do u have the statistic..having to known few people who got it doesn't mean it represent the whole intake...
anyway if there are really ppl who r in need that has been overlooked..
u can always appeal..why go making wild accusation...
that what MP's r for...

if the government is being unfair..they wouldn't be an STPM u know...
knowing that they would be limited spot in the IPTA as the quota in effect..they provided one system that allows u to further ur studies abroad...
the standard of STPM is much higher than matrix..therefore why complain?

so u r telling its unfair....
da bumi's are leading the numbers in terms of poverty...if the government was really unfair..shouldn't it be the other way around..i kinda see the rationale of giving the places to the malays...at least after they graduate there are hopes that they can help their own race...if they giv it to the non-bumi's...the question here would they be willing to do so..??...until uhey can fully plegde to do so..i think da system remains at the end of the day..the bumi's are at the loosing end...

plus an agreement is an agreement...how would u know what they trully felt at that time...

scholarship maybe is the main cause why this thread crop up...i think it is wise if the government creat bodies that opperate such like MARA to provide for the non-bumi's..so the dispute over this quota system will end...

Oh, here's a Dianetics fan.

thanks but i really don't need ur sarcasm...

[lindley]

its very clear that the bumis are not at the loosing end.
they have so many other options like MARA or whatever. what about the non bumis?
a friend of mine who only obtained 8As for SPM 2 years ago got OFFERED a scholarship to do medicine even tho he didnt apply for it. they have their 'bapa' to take care of them. what abt the non bumis?

[starlemon]

i do agree that STPM standard is way better compare to Matrikulasi.But have u ever consider how easy it would be for Matrikulasi student to score a 4 flat compared to STPM student? As u see,scoring 4 flat is a must for entering medicine in IPTA.And since most bumi is offered matrikulasi (don't u deny this), it is easier for bumi to get a place in IPTA Medicine.I can assure you,even 4 flat STPM student(non bumi)cannot gurantee themselves getting a place in IPTA medicine.This is due to the Quota system which you suggest is fair enough.So what's the point studying hard,having endless sleepless night and burning midnight oil to score 4.0 when government close your chance to pursue your dream career? And please rmb,not all non-bumi are rich enough to send their children to overseas.Regarding the poverty statistics,pls note that Malay's population made up 70% of the total population,and chinese is a mere 20+%.How can you calculate and evaluate the statistic when the number of population of different race is not the same?

My point is,when it comes to education,regardless colour and creed,each and every student work very hard to score flying colours.So why should government grants students with scholarships according to Quota?

quite agree...the quota should be fully abolished if it were to deem as fair and just..
but then the fact is bumi has their own priviledge(Hak istimewa) as stated clearly in our Perlembagaan Negara..we cant do anything...we shall respect our perlembagaan..
sensitive issue here..

[GuoSheng]

how do u know that the poors don't get it...??
do u have the statistic..having to known few people who got it doesn't mean it represent the whole intake...
anyway if there are really ppl who r in need that has been overlooked..
u can always appeal..why go making wild accusation...
that what MP's r for...

if the government is being unfair..they wouldn't be an STPM u know...
knowing that they would be limited spot in the IPTA as the quota in effect..they provided one system that allows u to further ur studies abroad...
the standard of STPM is much higher than matrix..therefore why complain?

so u r telling its unfair....
da bumi's are leading the numbers in terms of poverty...if the government was really unfair..shouldn't it be the other way around..i kinda see the rationale of giving the places to the malays...at least after they graduate there are hopes that they can help their own race...if they giv it to the non-bumi's...the question here would they be willing to do so..??...until uhey can fully plegde to do so..i think da system remains at the end of the day..the bumi's are at the loosing end...

plus an agreement is an agreement...how would u know what they trully felt at that time...

scholarship maybe is the main cause why this thread crop up...i think it is wise if the government creat bodies that opperate such like MARA to provide for the non-bumi's..so the dispute over this quota system will end...



thanks but i really don't need ur sarcasm...

O..yaa exactly. STPM is so much more high standard than Matrik, but when it comes to university admission, the matrik students are getting the first bite, in the name of 'meritocracy'. How is this fair? Because the very fact most who do STPM are poor students who couldn't afford private education, only to be deprived the opportunity into entering public institutions.

And don't talk about malays making up the highest number of poor people in the nation. Put aside the statistics, there are wretched up people in each race, like for example the indian communities?

And the most messed up part is the distribution of those privileges, like in scholarships for example. There are too many string pullings which result in the elitist malays getting richer and richer, hence the reason some poor bumis are being neglected due to saturation of quotas.

And you a bumi, i assume, should know very well just how easy you guys into getting a scholarship. I personally have met someone who rejected Mechatronic from Felda just because he doesnt like UK. And he is all too confident that he will be getting a bondless Mara scholarship.

Perlembagaan is man-made, and man changed.
________
LOS ANGELES MEDICAL MARIJUANA COUPONS (http://dispensaries.org)

[yana89]

its very clear that the bumis are not at the loosing end.
they have so many other options like MARA or whatever. what about the non bumis?
a friend of mine who only obtained 8As for SPM 2 years ago got OFFERED a scholarship to do medicine even tho he didnt apply for it. they have their 'bapa' to take care of them. what abt the non bumis?

u hv the plitics bodies such as the DAP and the MCA asked them to address ur woes then...

[wendy191]

if the government is being unfair..they wouldn't be an STPM u know...
knowing that they would be limited spot in the IPTA as the quota in effect..they provided one system that allows u to further ur studies abroad...
the standard of STPM is much higher than matrix..therefore why complain?

so u r telling its unfair....
da bumi's are leading the numbers in terms of poverty...if the government was really unfair..shouldn't it be the other way around..i kinda see the rationale of giving the places to the malays...at least after they graduate there are hopes that they can help their own race...if they giv it to the non-bumi's..the question here would they be willing to do so..?? at the end of the day..the bumi's are at the loosing end...

plus an agreement is an agreement...how would u know what they trully felt at that time...

scholarship maybe is the main cause why this thread crop up...i think it is wise if the government creat bodies that opperate such like MARA to provide for the non-bumi's..so the dispute over this quota system will end...



thanks but i really don't need ur sarcasm...

i do agree that STPM standard is way better compare to Matrikulasi.But have u ever consider how easy it would be for Matrikulasi student to score a 4 flat compared to STPM student? As u see,scoring 4 flat is a must for entering medicine in IPTA.And since most bumi is offered matrikulasi (don't u deny this), the chances for bumi to secure a place in IPTA Medicine is much higher..Let me show you the real statistic: in year 2006,only 16 out of the 400 students in UM medicine comes from STPM,and all the 16 non bumi students score 4 flat.This is due to the Quota system which you suggest is fair enough.The other 4 flat STPM students(non bumi)fails to pursue their dream career which they really work hard for.So what's the point studying hard,having endless sleepless night and burning midnight oil to score 4.0 when government close your chance to pursue your dream career? Is this fair?

Please borne in mind,not all non-bumi parents are rich enough to send their children to overseas.Regarding the poverty statistics,pls note that Malay's population made up 70% of the total population,and chinese is a mere 20+%.How can you evaluate the statistic when the number of population of different race is not the same? As an example,lets assume 6/20 non bumi and 20/70 bumi are rich.This produces the ratio non bumi:bumi=0.3:0.28
Does this really reflects bumi's are poor?

My point is,when it comes to education,regardless colour and creed,each and every student work very hard to score flying colours.So why should government grants students with scholarships according to Quota? It should be another way round- only those who deserve it secure a scholarship.


and dear Yana,Don't you mix up the real intention of having politics parties.Their main responsibility is to develop our country,not for students to appeal for scholarship. Yes.constitution is important in ensuring harmony,but do remember we can always change the Constitution when it no longer works in today's world.

[yana89]

O..yaa exactly. STPM is so much more high standard than Matrik, but when it comes to university admission, the matrik students are getting the first bite, in the name of 'meritocracy'. How is this fair? Because the very fact most who do STPM are poor students who couldn't afford private education, only to be deprived the opportunity into entering public institutions.

And don't talk about malays making up the highest number of poor people in the nation. Put aside the statistics, there are wretched up people in each race, like for example the indian communities?

And the most messed up part is the distribution of those privileges, like in scholarships for example. There are too many string pullings which result in the elitist malays getting richer and richer, hence the reason some poor bumis are being neglected due to saturation of quotas.

And you a bumi, i assume, should know very well just how easy you guys into getting a scholarship. I personally have met someone who rejected Mechatronic from Felda just because he doesnt like UK. And he is all too confident that he will be getting a bondless Mara scholarship.

Perlembagaan is man-made, and man changed.

fyi..this is from an article published by the star..

PSD scholarships for SPM students with 9As


PETALING JAYA: The Public Service Department (PSD) will offer scholarships to all students who scored 9As in their SPM examinations last year, regardless of background, to study Form Six in fully-aided schools.

Chief Secretary to the Government Tan Sri Sidek Hassan said students who do matriculation, including those in Universiti Malaya?s Science Preparatory Centre and International Islamic University?s matriculation programme, would also be offered scholarships.

These students will also be sponsored for their first degree if they do it in a local university, he said in a statement yesterday.

Sidek said the PSD would also sponsor such students if they obtained places in an Ivy League or equivalent university.

Top-scoring students who get a place in a Malaysian branch of a foreign university such as Monash University, Nottingham University, Curtin University of Technology and Swinburne Unversity will also be offered scholarships.

On top of this, Sidek said the PSD would offer scholarships to 2,000 students for overseas studies and a further 10,000 for studies in local universities.

He said the scholarships were being offered in line with the Government?s efforts to develop human capital.

He said the Government was aware that the number of high achievers is growing every year. Yet, not every student would have a chance to get Government sponsorship.

?The Government realises that high achievers are assets.

?As such, it has introduced the initiative to increase the number of scholarships where students of any background will be offered as long as they satisfy the SPM 9A score condition,? he said.

The move, Sidek added, would indirectly encourage these high achievers to further their education in local universities.[/QOUTE]

[QUOTE=wendy191;168784]and dear Yana,Don't you mix up the real intention of having politics parties.Their main responsibility is to develop our country,not for students to appeal for scholarship. Yes.constitution is important in ensuring harmony,but do remember we can always change the Constitution when it no longer works in today's world.

develope our countries..yes..that also includes making the education system much better..don't u think?..

[wendy191]

This is why they should really look into the Quota system and what i hope is,in the near future,realising the fact that it actually creates racial tension instead of harmonising us,they would consider abolishing this.

[GuoSheng]

??? I dun get it. Why the article?
________
LovelyWendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[starlemon]

??? I dun get it. Why the article?

?As such, it has introduced the initiative to increase the number of scholarships where students of any background will be offered as long as they satisfy the SPM 9A score condition,?

i hope the background here not ony refer to personal financial status but oso races issue.

[GuoSheng]

political agenda....no big deal for form 6 which is relatively affordable.
________
EXPERT INSURANCE (http://xpertinsurance.com/)

[lindley]

yes you do have DAP and all, but then again, how high are your chances of getting the scholarship if you desperately need it?
for non bumis, even if you get straight As for STPM, it cant guarantee you the course of your choice can it?

[fuzzy47]

My grandfather and grandmother were immigrants. My father and my mother, and my siblings, and my future kids, are NOT.

I understand and respect the constitution and the special rights clause contained within; but to harp onto "immigrant vs. native" mentality until today is not very dissimilar to white vs. black mentality.

Say no to 'quota'. I'm all for a bangsa malaysia where we malaysian wud speak a malaysian language, have malaysian names, & hav a single school system. no more smjk(c) or (tamil).
but how many non bumis are willing to scrape away Chinese & tamil schools? The way i see it if non bumis are serious abt being bangsa malaysia then no more vernacular schools. Perhaps i'm generalising here, but i see that non bumis want to have their cake and eat it too. u want equal chances without giving up ur priviledges. yes, to be able to go to a eg chinese school have chinese names, practise the chinese culture are priviledges and luxuries not many countries have given to the the immigrants. Eg US , Australia immigrants have to assimilate.
so, if u 1 bumis to give the so called priviledges, then non bumis must be willing to do so.

[lindley]

how can we when the bumis keep harping on the fact that they have malay rights?
how are the non bumis going to learn abt their mother tongue and all in national schools? yes i agree with you, each party should give and take. but look at the situation. chinese and tamil classes are not provided in many national schools. so in other words, when you scrape vernacular schools youre kinda 'demolishing' their culture as well.

[youngyew]

if u really understand..then there should be no question to it....
and if u really respect the constituition and the special right clause...all of u are not suppose to be bickering about it..
Understanding the actual clause of the constitution, is different from the vague idea that bumis have "special rights" and then stretch the rights arbitrarily and even to the extent of abusing it. The quotas, or how many take it as "special rights", are enshrined in article 153 of the constitution, and it says that the federal government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Malaysia) may protect the interest of these groups by establishing quotas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quota_share) for entry into the civil service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service), public scholarships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarship) and public education (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_education).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_153_of_the_Constitution_of_Malaysia

In any case, the article says that the YDPA has the right to safeguard and ensure the reservation of places in those areas to a number he deems reasonable.

80% of quota for a race which comprise 65% of population is NOT reasonable by any stretch of logic. It is not called "safeguard bumi's interest", it's an outright bully act.

black vs white is trully and understatement...malaysian are far more better than their case...its just allocation of number of places of bumi's...that's all..the government still gives out scholarship out towards the non-bumi...and the bumi's don't hover negetive perception to the non-bumi's...we all live in harmony...that's a different case if compared to the 'white vs black mentality'..which are more far worst..

There's a social, unwritten discrimination towards the african american in US, but the law actually safeguards an equal right.

Look, I really think that people should stop taking bumi vs. non-bumi as a zero-sum game - IT ISN'T. Non-bumi are not here to rob the bumi's houses; we were all born here, and it's not just bumi's tanah dumpah darah, it's also my, my brothers and sisters, and my future generations' tanah tumpah darah. I love this land every bit as bumi, bumi's father and bumi's son and granddaughters.

Yes, in its early years, the clauses in the constitution were justified because the chinese indeed immigrated here and performed better than the bumis who have been here for a few generations. So it's fair for the existence of clauses to safeguard the interest of the bumis, during the time.

But we have since moved on, and we are no longer the immigrants (that's what I wanted to express in my earlier, shorter comment). We are the immigrants' second, third, and even fourth generation - we were born here, we know no other home country besides Malaysia, this is where we belong. And to label ME, and MY CHILDREN as "PEOPLE WHO ROB THE BUMI's CHANCE" by birth, is no different from saying "you black people are inferior because your great grandfather were us white people's slave".

This is where my black vs. white mentality analogy came in.

[GuoSheng]

Say no to 'quota'. I'm all for a bangsa malaysia where we malaysian wud speak a malaysian language, have malaysian names, & hav a single school system. no more smjk(c) or (tamil).
but how many non bumis are willing to scrape away Chinese & tamil schools? The way i see it if non bumis are serious abt being bangsa malaysia then no more vernacular schools. Perhaps i'm generalising here, but i see that non bumis want to have their cake and eat it too. u want equal chances without giving up ur priviledges. yes, to be able to go to a eg chinese school have chinese names, practise the chinese culture are priviledges and luxuries not many countries have given to the the immigrants. Eg US , Australia immigrants have to assimilate.
so, if u 1 bumis to give the so called priviledges, then non bumis must be willing to do so.

haha...vernacular education is just a small problem. There is still racial polarization even in smk schools, which espouses the notion that there are more in racial problems than education system. And besides, what's so wrong in having chinese names, and practicing chinese cultures. Mind my ignorance, but do US and Australia really make it compulsory to assimilate all immigrants?
________
MARIJUANA VAPORIZER (http://weedvaporizer.info/)

[lindley]

in national schools, we dont celebrate holidays like CNY or deepavali or whatever, but we celebrate malay holidays such as Maal Hijrah and such. im not saying that vernacular schools celebrate these holidays as well, but its just that in national schools, they only emphasize on the malay race.

[starlemon]

how can we when the bumis keep harping on the fact that they have malay rights?
how are the non bumis going to learn abt their mother tongue and all in national schools? yes i agree with you, each party should give and take. but look at the situation. chinese and tamil classes are not provided in many national schools. so in other words, when you scrape vernacular schools youre kinda 'demolishing' their culture as well.

In fact,if the gov want to promote unity,they should make the national school implement some vernacular classes..not only that, they should employ more quality teachers and more advanced facilities in order to attract more non-bumi students to study at national school...in other words , there will be 'belajar di satu bumbung'phenomena exist..hence promote and enhance the unity among malaysian regardless of race and religion..
on the other hand, the vernacular school should not be scraped and abolished..

[youngyew]

haha...vernacular education is just a small problem. There is still racial polarization even in smk schools, which espouses the notion that there are more in racial problems than education system. And besides, what's so wrong in having chinese names, and practicing chinese cultures. Mind my ignorance, but do US and Australia really make it compulsory to assimilate all immigrants?
In Australia, there are no totally vernacular schools, and the chinese here usually learn chinese language outside the school via chinese societies or private tutoring. As a result, though, their proficiency is on average lower than chinese educated malaysians.

To a certain extent, I agree that vernacular schools add to the racial polarisation and hence mutual misunderstand and distrust. However, it's not the ROOT of the problem, it's just something that facilitates the underlying problem.

I actually support the one-school-system if mother tongue education is to be incorporated properly. Unfortunately, the mutual distrust and the history of the oppression in the past simply makes it trickier than what we armchair critics could put in fancy terms. :(

Anyway, just adding to my previous post:

Imagine that you have a magic delicious cake, and a few friends and strangers who are eager to share it with you. Now, you really want to keep your cakes, but realistically, you know that you are not going to be able to have the whole cake.

You have two choices: to make the cake grow bigger magically so that everyone actually enjoys bigger pieces, or to fight out between each other, while the cake remains the same or even shrinks in size?

Think about what we have been doing, and are still doing.

[AnnDeBlurry]

Agree...the Perlembagaan Malaysia was written decades ago , it should be amended from time to time in accordance to the changes of world ( that's also one of the reasons accepted to change the Perlembagaan Malaysia )...We should look at what happen in the other countries . Take an example of our neighbour , does the problem of quota ever arise ?
The government should give equal right to every Malaysian disregarding the skin colour , religious or race of the Malaysian......that's the best way to maintain the intergrity of Malaysian and that's what Malaysian means....

[youngyew]

Technically though, article 153 is given the "transcendental" status where the ordinary methods of amendment to constitution do not apply to it. So technically it's irrevocable.

[fuzzy47]

if that so, I can't say anything :)
so you ppl just check the MARA website frequently

last year, the rumours said the result will be released on 21st May.. I didn't trust it but still want to check whether it was true or not.. and I found out the truth was there..huu



hopefully you'll get it.. insyaAllah



The interviewer gave me a chance to ask some questions
and I asked about the when the results will be announced
they said - mid of May 2007
:P

why I was sad eyh? .. hmm.. maybe because I targeted to be in KMS, doing A-lvl
but quite happy since 23 of my friends were chosen to be there (the 2nd largest population for my batch.. the largest is from MRSM TGB)

just like a reunion..hu

23 Hours Ago #41
youngyew
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Anyway to be frank, when you cancel the quota, probably only 5% of scholarships will go to the bumis and the rest to non-bumis. Najib once mentioned this number. What do you think will happen? Everyone will become happy, as we are now "Malaysians"?

"""No, I am not saying this to justify the quota, but I am only saying it's true that the quota IS a key factor in maintaining social harmony. Abolishing it abruptly is not going to do any good to the country, and this is why I am championing a gradual change. We need to have a government with enough determination to bring about this change, if we really want to see it happen. .....youngyew"""


All u mrsm, sma, sms, smk guys here.

Do u think the above statement is true? only 5% bumi layak ??? i got that frm debate ' yes or no to quota'. dat figure seems unbelievable!!! pls note that reference of the alleged statement by dpm is not given jd x ble check betul ke tak figure tu. i read that in 2006 mrsm lkawi 150 out of 300 students got strait A's. so i need ur imput. pls .

[shahkang]

hmm no idea about that la
are u really sure about that number huh?
tamau cakap la benda2 tak pasti gini

[youngyew]

Anyway sorry for the 5% figure, it was a number that I remembered reading from some source which I have forgotten. I have just done some research again, and found the actual source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_153_of_the_Constitution_of_Malaysia

In 1998, then Education Minister Najib Tun Razak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najib_Tun_Razak) (son of Tun Abdul Razak who implemented the NEP) stated that without quotas, only 5% of undergraduates in public universities would be Malays. Najib argued this justified the need for the continuance of quotas.It's not for scholarship but for undergraduates. Sorry for the misinformation. In some ways, it still highlights the disparity between bumi and non-bumi in the education though.

[chenchow]

On this issue, I would like to bring everyone back to reality, or at least to the statistics.

Every year (or rather, based on 2008 ), the number of JPA Scholarships to study abroad are 2,000. The number of MARA scholarships are a few hundred. Lets take it to be 1,000 (I know that the actual figure is not this much).

At this number of scholarships, and compared to about 400,000 SPM Leavers, we are talking about 0.75% of Malaysians going to get a scholarship.

So, even if all the scholarships (do note that I put, Even If) are given to bumiputera, it is going to be like 3,000 out of 250,000 or 300,000. That's at best 1.2%. This essentially means that even if all scholarships are given to bumiputera, 98.8% of bumiputera would not get a scholarship to study abroad.

So, everyone, please do not generalize. While previously, there might be some that have benefitted from affirmative actions, many today got their scholarships (including many ReComers) based on their own merit. When we generalize, we are casting aspersions on their ability, and saying that they are not capable. I'm sure we don't want others to cast aspersion on our ability too.

To all ReComers who have the opportunity to further studies on scholarships, I really hope that you would try your best, and make full use of the opportunities. Don't forget that less than 1% of Malaysians of SPM leavers age have this opportunity. Of course, a number of ReComers have this opportunity, so lets set our example right.

ReCom.org has the biggest gathering of all Government scholars, and hence, if we, can get all of us to optimize the opportunities and learn the best we can, and contribute to our nation through all means we can, we will be able to see a better Malaysia.

I know that many non-bumiputera are still influenced by previous policy, which hinged on quota system. Today, the system is not in place. There are so many of ReComers who are studying at various preparatory programs as a JPA Scholar. I am sure you can see the ratio of the scholars, and non-bumiputera does consist more than 20% (at least for these latest couple of batches).

[alepbing]

guys, i think this issue is rather sensitive but i'm glad to know that everyone takes responsibilities on what they said, and did not argue and create racial tension.

so here i go, i know this may sound racist but do you know that most chinese who received government's scholarship to study abroad did not return? my senior who is currently studying in Michigan under JPA had set her mind not to return to Malaysia anymore. well, not all chinese does that and not only chinese never return, but the majority is.
but i guess thats not the entire reason of less scholarships given to non-bumis (theoritically).

i think this question arose because the chinese know that they are better in education than Malays but it seems like malays received more scholarships. sorry to say but i understand how you guys (the chinese i mean) feel. my best friends are mostly chinese and i received complaints, a LOT. so when the chinese see that malays who got worse result than theirs receive govt's assistance, they will of course (if me too) feel discriminated.

so, is this just all about the education or more than that? like housing and stuff?

speaking of mara, after being forced by MCA and MIC, the govt opens 15% seats in MRSM for non-bumis. and only 5% is filled. explain to me why that happens?

i dont have the right figure on quotas of bumis in malaysian Us but all of my chinese friends rejected offers to pursue studies in local IPTA. why?

and although i support quota system, dong get me wrong. I AGAINST THE CURRENT QUOTA SYSTEM. why? because i think the quota of seats in Us must be by the percentage of the population if the races. meaning that let say there is 10% indians in the population, then the indians quota in local IPTA is 10% too. and if im not mistaken the bumis made up 70% of the population, so 70% seats go to them. it is quite fair, as it protects the bumis rights, and give equal chances to the non-bumis too

please, once again, dont picture bumis as malays. bumis are malays, natives from sabah, sarawak and orang asli.

and the bumis never question the economics power of non-bumis that i think more that 50% of our country's econ. but the govt trries to put bumis at the same level as the chinese, and never produce an act to prevent the non-bumis from making business.

all in all, i agree with quota system, but not the current way of quota system being implemented

[stupidboy]

But still, we're all humans. We're all born in Malaysia. We're all Malaysians. We should all have equal rights. Everyone should have the same rights to talk.

There shouldn't be any H** I******* bla bla bla. Cause this is what keeps the quota going. Well that's what I think.

[GuoSheng]

so here i go, i know this may sound racist but do you know that most chinese who received government's scholarship to study abroad did not return? my senior who is currently studying in Michigan under JPA had set her mind not to return to Malaysia anymore. well, not all chinese does that and not only chinese never return, but the majority is.
but i guess thats not the entire reason of less scholarships given to non-bumis (theoritically).

speaking of mara, after being forced by MCA and MIC, the govt opens 15% seats in MRSM for non-bumis. and only 5% is filled. explain to me why that happens?

i dont have the right figure on quotas of bumis in malaysian Us but all of my chinese friends rejected offers to pursue studies in local IPTA. why?

and although i support quota system, dong get me wrong. I AGAINST THE CURRENT QUOTA SYSTEM. why? because i think the quota of seats in Us must be by the percentage of the population if the races. meaning that let say there is 10% indians in the population, then the indians quota in local IPTA is 10% too. and if im not mistaken the bumis made up 70% of the population, so 70% seats go to them. it is quite fair, as it protects the bumis rights, and give equal chances to the non-bumis too

please, once again, dont picture bumis as malays. bumis are malays, natives from sabah, sarawak and orang asli.

and the bumis never question the economics power of non-bumis that i think more that 50% of our country's econ. but the govt trries to put bumis at the same level as the chinese, and never produce an act to prevent the non-bumis from making business.


Indeed they are nons who are not going to be back after receiving the scholarships, but please don't generalize it to 'most' chinese scholars. I believe all scholars are bonded by the contract itself, with their parents becoming the guarantors. Hence I believe, even if they ain't coming back, they will pay back every penny. And considering the number of non bumi scholars is quite low relatively, it is quite insignificant.

You know why many chinese are rejecting offers from the IPTA? Coz they were offered with stupid courses.

And besides, who give a donkey whether nons get into mrsm or not. There are many nons who despite from mrsm failed to get any scholarship. They will need to perform as well.

And frankly speaking, who are bumi, to question the economics power of the non bumis? is it a sin to be rich and more successful than the majority? Besides, it takes effort and know how to succeed in all endeavors, not luck. And the successful non bumis achieved all that legitimately.

Poverty or incompetency is a personal matter, not of racial stereotype- eg. All Chinese are Rich, All Malays are poor...hence should be helped. -.-

And why is distribution of wealth should be in proportion to racial composition? You work hard, you get it. You may say most chinese traders have a headstart as compared to the bumis. But the fact is do they? Because the first generation of the chinese who got the head start in business due to the British occupation have long gone to hexx. Today's people are those of the second and third generation, which receive the very same environment as the bumis.

Say for example, if one day, I am successful, would you begrudge me? I am the product of the very same education like the majority. Hence why the quota and preferences? We are on a level playing field for god sake.

no offence to anyone, ignore it if you don't like it.
________
BOND INSURANCE DICUSSION (http://www.insurance-forums.org/bond-insurance/)

[Xianst]

Since the family background is already taken into consideration, there is no point to have a quota for that, if the reason for the quota is to ensure that all those who are underprivileged but with potential will benefit from this..

[youngyew]

so here i go, i know this may sound racist but do you know that most chinese who received government's scholarship to study abroad did not return? my senior who is currently studying in Michigan under JPA had set her mind not to return to Malaysia anymore. well, not all chinese does that and not only chinese never return, but the majority is.
but i guess thats not the entire reason of less scholarships given to non-bumis (theoritically).
I agree that many Chinese scholars do not return to the country to fulfill their responsibility. But I don't think "most" do not return. As far as I know, my chinese jpa friends here are returning to the country when they graduate.

and the bumis never question the economics power of non-bumis that i think more that 50% of our country's econ. but the govt trries to put bumis at the same level as the chinese, and never produce an act to prevent the non-bumis from making business.
The problem here is that for public projects like major highways, bridges, government buildings etc, they are often contracted without open tender to companies of "kawan-kawan", which are always conveniently owned by bumis. So although there's no written discriminatory law in terms of business, in practice there are still lots of race-based discrimination.

[lindley]

sometimes i feel that the government is helping the bumis a bit too much.

[vimal06]

A bit of help is like telling the Pacific Ocean is a puddle.. Lolx.. Lets face it.. up to some point, the quota system has somehow caused much aggravation n irritation among the citizens.. It manages to sideline the trully talented n deserving while the not so talented benefit blindly from it.. Its my humble point of view..

[Shoblast]

sometimes i feel that the sky is a little too blue.

EDIT: someone beat me to it. i am not worthy.

[vimal06]

sometimes i feel that the sky is a little too blue.

wat do you mean?? lolx sorry for ignorance..

[youngyew]

Keep to the topic please.

[alepbing]

And frankly speaking, who are bumi, to question the economics power of the non bumis? is it a sin to be rich and more successful than the majority? Besides, it takes effort and know how to succeed in all endeavors, not luck. And the successful non bumis achieved all that legitimately.


well, i might as well ask who are you to question bumis rights? you made it sound as if you can control the economy, without bumis' questioning, and yet you question when government decides to give advantages to the bumis.
to give you clearer picture, i wasnt even refering to that the non-bumis should not control the economics, but the govt is trying to help the bumis to develop their own econs.


okay if that is the arguments, then i shall apologize. but then again, of course, i would want to know that on what basis that you think quota itself is being irrelevant?

I mean, it is obvious that if there is no quota in university placing, there will be more chinese than other races. government also needs to take care on the importance of the bumis. I just think that the bumis are taking too much advantage for the specialities they got.

I will not say the demolishment of the quota system is appropriate, but then the way of the government bring it physically sometimes doesnt make sense. Like i said earlier, it is appropriate if quota is given based on the population percentage. That will be more fair, when there is a win-win situation.

since we are in different shoes, i think it is hard for us to understand the needs and desires among us, but what i can assure you there is a little need in the changing on the application of bumis rights. and it is good that if this argument can give us just and fair views from all parties and please forgive me if my statements are offensive.

[Gemini]

Quota system should be abolished forever and forever. Our nation is facing brain drain. Wake up, please! Quota system is making people to become lazy, not knowing what's the meaning of 'competition' and live in their own little cocoon. So, why should quota system exist? Is it to show which race is superior and 'SPECIAL'? Can people who benefit from quota system strive in the multinasional company? Totally against the quota system!

[youngyew]

At the moment, decreasing the quota to have it represent the actual racial distribution is a good first step. It should be a good common ground on which all races could agree with.

In the long run, however, when bumis are able to parallel the non-bumis in various areas overall, there shouldn't, and needn't be such thing as quota at all. In any case, a quota that represents racial distribution is irrelevant when we fade out the racial lenses - for example, does it make sense to set all sorts of quotas like, "malaysian cabinets must consist of 50% male and 50% female", or "public servants should consist of 60% muslims, 19% buddhists, 9% christians, 6% hindus and 0.1% scientologists"?

Perhaps we should also set aside some quotas of our MPs according to their BMI. Probably do it to ReCom moderators too.

[alepbing]

At the moment, decreasing the quota to have it represent the actual racial distribution is a good first step. It should be a good common ground on which all races could agree with.

In the long run, however, when bumis are up and running and is able to parallel the non-bumis in various areas overall, there shouldn't, and needn't be such thing as quota at all. In any case, a quota that represents racial distribution is irrelevant when we fade out the racial lenses - for example, does it make sense to set all sorts of quotas like, "malaysian cabinets must consist of 50% male and 50% female", or "public servants should consist of 70% muslims, 15% buddhists, 15% christians, 8% hindus and 0.1% scientologists"?

Perhaps we should also set aside some quotas of our MPs according to their BMI. Probably do it to ReCom moderators too.

lol! haha. i laughed at the last sentence haha.

but seriously though, you cannot expect drastic change. maybe in years to come, when i comes to our time to admin the country, i believe we are the generation that against violence, and we should have table talks, just like what they did before.

i agree with you on your second paragraph.

and also, there must be more tolerance among malaysians too. it is very difficult to talk about demolishing it as there will be political parties try to exploit the issue for their own importance. i should not name any political leaders but there is one man in malaysia, still alive, used the quota issue to gain votes by the non-bumis, and said the otherwise in front of bumis. trust me, i knew. i watched and listened to him a lot of times. hehe

[youngyew]

I believe you are talking about Anwar Ibrahim? If you are, you are welcome to share your view in this thread:

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5938

[AnnDeBlurry]

My history teacher told me the government set policy and projects like Rancangan Malaysia etc to help bumis so that their economy is in line with the Chinese and Indians ....But , if we only look into this perspective , wouldn't it be a bit shallow ? because we still need to compete with other countries . This situation is quite similar as the education system in our country . The quato system not only create unneccessary racial tension , but it also can decrease the competency of our students with the students in other countries . There are many talented and good students from Malaysia , if all of them are given equal right and oppurtunity , and not discriminated due to the races they're belong to ( which they can't choose ) , I believe there will be better development . By the way , non bumis choose to stay at oversea because they know the are more appreciated by the other countries . Who would choose to be unfairly treated ?

[youngyew]

Historically, without the quota, there would have been even more racial tension. Bumis only had 4% of the country's wealth before the NEP, if I'm not mistaken. So in some ways the quota had been "corrective" in nature.

After all these years, the affirmative action has indeed helped address the wealth polarisation problem a bit (despite being still quite far from a complete solution). However, at the same time, the system is causing a huge brain drain and is breeding a whole lot of disgruntlement, hence what was meant to alleviate racial tension is actually precipitating a new round of racial tension.

This is precisely the reason why we want quota to be reassessed - not because "non-bumis want to rob even more things from the bumis".

[alepbing]

i think it can be demolished once we all attain equivalent success in everything. it is not impossible, i would love to help my country to be harmonious and fair for all races.

the system has a problem in the way that govt wants to help the bumis. what heppen to the bumis is that they feel comfortable with the privilages they have. and the typical bumis are very sensitive about it. i myself want to see my race developed and play equal roles in our nation's affair, but the mentality. there will be riots if govt straight away demolish quota system. and there will be oppostion parties taking chances on these kind of situations

i realised that quota has A LOT to do with politics.

[AnnDeBlurry]

The government shouldn't have give so much assistance and privileges to bumis especially in term of education . No doubt , bumis who stay in rural area who don't get a very good oppurtunity should be helped so that they're as good as the others . However , I don't think race shouldn't be part of the criteria taken into accounts when they considering who are supposed to receive the seats in universities and hold the scholarships . This would be unjust . Besides , this can become the excuse used by the undeserving non-bumis to blame the government .

[youngyew]

A rather personal question for you, AnnDeBlurry: I thought you chose " I think it is fair." in the thread's poll?

[AnnDeBlurry]

Nope , I am not to the extent of all out for it . So I think maybe I click the wrong choice .

[stupidboy]

Even if there's a quota, all deserving students should get a scholarship as an award for the excellent results. The scholarship distribution should be based mainly on the results and not on the quota. By following the quota, do you know how many hearts have been broken? Students studied so hard to get a good result just to get a scholarship to be able to further their studies and even for some to lessen their parent's hardships. To be heart broken at such a young age, don't you pity them? They were happy to know that their hard work paid off when they got an excellent result, just to be heart broken in the scholarship application process. A joy that did not lasted. :(

[megatfais]

its very clear that the bumis are not at the loosing end.
they have so many other options like MARA or whatever. what about the non bumis?
a friend of mine who only obtained 8As for SPM 2 years ago got OFFERED a scholarship to do medicine even tho he didnt apply for it. they have their 'bapa' to take care of them. what abt the non bumis?

who offered him?how cud he get a scholarship without even applying for it?wat did u mean by 'bapa'?

[skyrainbow]

The scholarship distribution should be based mainly on the results and not on the quota. By following the quota, do you know how many hearts have been broken? Students studied so hard to get a good result just to get a scholarship to be able to further their studies and even for some to lessen their parent's hardships. To be heart broken at such a young age, don't you pity them? They were happy to know that their hard work paid off when they got an excellent result, just to be heart broken in the scholarship application process. A joy that did not lasted. :(

imho 18/17 is not too young to face the real society, which full of disappointment n unfair.

not all hard work pay off,
n not all things we trust (dearest ppl, outcomes, some leaders, etc.) turns out the way we think they should.

but, i really think there should be a fair n transparent policy in the distribution of scholarships, so that the assets ($ n ppl) r not wasted. i oso hope that the policy is for ketuanan rakyat.

[stupidboy]

One more thing is that Malaysia should follow the foot steps of most of the European countries(France, Germany, etc) by offering free educations. This would help all those poor families as well as those who live in the urban areas. And with this step, all they got to do is to offer overseas scholarships for those who really deserved it. Cause with this no one can complain that they don't have the same opportunity to further their studies. It's either you continue you studies in Malaysia or you get a scholarship cause you really excelled your studies.

[qwerkie]

question to veteran ReCommers: does this quota issue happen every year around april-may? i will probably get flamed to ashes for this. non-bumis, ask ourselves. are we getting all racial here just because we failed to get a scholarship? is it a personal vendetta? some of you sound really angry, and i don't think emotion should be allowed to judge something as sensitive as racial quotas. don't get me wrong, you have every right to be angry. but let's keep it neutral in this discussion, ya?

i think quotas aren't necessary anymore. the reason it's there in the first place is to help the bumis get a bigger slice of the economic pie. bumis are doing pretty well already (correct me if i'm wrong). all the quota does now is breed racial tension and discontent, as seen in this thread. all the more reason to put a stop to it.

without a quota in place, bumis won't go back to being tree-climbers! i have friends who are bumis and they're pretty smart people. they don't need quotas! scholarships should fund the best and the brightest, regardless of race, religion or creed. meritocracy is the way to go.

hence, malaysia should do away with a bumi-affirmative quota simply because it has and no longer serves its original purpose. demolishing this quota will be very very effective in diffusing the racial tension time-bomb. the time is now.

for education, for malaysia, and for the future, let us quit the quota.

[youngyew]

It does happen every year during scholarship season. Just check the previous years' JPA threads.

[Glassylicious]

You know, guys...just something new to think about.

Did it ever occur to you that even if the quota for scholarships is abolished...lots of high-achieving non-Bumi's are still not going to be able to get one anyway? The demand for scholarships among highly-qualified students has, is, and will always be greater than the amount of scholarships available. Sure, getting rid of the quota might free up maybe 100 or 200 more spaces [arbitrary number for the sake of this argument] but that is still going to mean that hundreds of applicants will still be turned away. Don't forget that there are many high-achieving Bumi's today to compete with as well.

It's also a bit annoying to read that some people [not pointing fingers at anyone in particular] seem to be under the impression that getting 12/13/14A1's will automatically grant you a scholarship. Well, newsflash: it doesn't. Even if there isn't a quota, you still won't be guaranteed a scholarship.

Your scholarship providers will look at a lot more than just your grades before making a decision. Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to applying for scholarships. It is almost impossible to predict which candidate will get one, and which will be rejected.

A scholarship is a privilege, not a freakin' right.



[[Just wanted to introduce a new perspective because everything I have to say about the "right" and "justification" of having a quota in scholarships has already been said by previous users. So yes, this post has purposely ignored the "But having a quota is unfair and wrong" argument.]]

[youngyew]

Well, for some reasons, scholarship has now been perceived as the government's responsibility, like providing primary and secondary education. It isn't.

However, to be fair, I think the main bone of contention is the relative number and qualification of the scholars they see while comparing bumis and non-bumis. So "lots of high-achieving non-Bumi's are still not going to be able to get one after abolishment" is not too much a concern, at least people who still complain in that case can be reasonably labelled as habitual grumblers without a justifiable cause.

[megatfais]

O..yaa exactly. STPM is so much more high standard than Matrik, but when it comes to university admission, the matrik students are getting the first bite, in the name of 'meritocracy'. How is this fair? Because the very fact most who do STPM are poor students who couldn't afford private education, only to be deprived the opportunity into entering public institutions.

And don't talk about malays making up the highest number of poor people in the nation. Put aside the statistics, there are wretched up people in each race, like for example the indian communities?

And the most messed up part is the distribution of those privileges, like in scholarships for example. There are too many string pullings which result in the elitist malays getting richer and richer, hence the reason some poor bumis are being neglected due to saturation of quotas.

And you a bumi, i assume, should know very well just how easy you guys into getting a scholarship. I personally have met someone who rejected Mechatronic from Felda just because he doesnt like UK. And he is all too confident that he will be getting a bondless Mara scholarship.

Perlembagaan is man-made, and man changed.

about the felda tingy,i tot u mentioned before that its fair for someone to get many offers as long as they are good.then why complain?mind u felda only offers 5 places every year.and i dun tink they have a specific quota.i met a number of non bumis during the two phases of felda interviews.plus maybe that guy prefers a diff course since mara offers a wider range of courses.

[stupidboy]

You know, guys...just something new to think about.

Did it ever occur to you that even if the quota for scholarships is abolished...lots of high-achieving non-Bumi's are still not going to be able to get one anyway? The demand for scholarships among highly-qualified students has, is, and will always be greater than the amount of scholarships available. Sure, getting rid of the quota might free up maybe 100 or 200 more spaces [arbitrary number for the sake of this argument] but that is still going to mean that hundreds of applicants will still be turned away. Don't forget that there are many high-achieving Bumi's today to compete with as well.

It's also a bit annoying to read that some people [not pointing fingers at anyone in particular] seem to be under the impression that getting 12/13/14A1's will automatically grant you a scholarship. Well, newsflash: it doesn't. Even if there isn't a quota, you still won't be guaranteed a scholarship.

Your scholarship providers will look at a lot more than just your grades before making a decision. Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to applying for scholarships. It is almost impossible to predict which candidate will get one, and which will be rejected.

A scholarship is a privilege, not a freakin' right.



[[Just wanted to introduce a new perspective because everything I have to say about the "right" and "justification" of having a quota in scholarships has already been said by previous users. So yes, this post has purposely ignored the "But having a quota is unfair and wrong" argument.]]

You never try, you never know(damn:wall, I forgot is it like that).

Anyway, from what you said, that means even without quota, the results of the scholarships would be the same. Then why do we need quota?

[Glassylicious]

You never try, you never know(damn:wall, I forgot is it like that).

Anyway, from what you said, that means even without quota, the results of the scholarships would be the same. Then why do we need quota?

Hehehe, headwalling.

Anyway. That's a pretty redundant question, which has probably been answered many times in this topic. The quota is "needed" to reserve spots for Bumi's.

What I was trying to say is that even without the reserved spots, many non-Bumis will STILL be rejected due to the limited supply of scholarships. Without the quota, there will undeniably be a little more non-Bumis receiving scholarships if they're good enough to best their Bumi counterparts, but many others will be less fortunate due to the highly competitive nature of the applications.

[Al-Bert]

My postulation based on the extracts from ReCommers:

Bumi = Chinese = Indian = Homosapien

Population = Bumis (70%) + Chinese (20%) + Indian & others (10%)

The percentage of place in univesity & securing scholarship:

*With quota = Bumis ~ 70%, Chinese ~ 20%, Indian & others ~ (10%)
*Without quota (in short run) = Bumis ~ 60%, Chinese ~ 25%, Indian & others ~ 15%
*Without quota (in long run) = Bumis ~ 70%, Chinese ~ 20%, Indian & others ~ 15%

(provided that no change in population)

Benefits without quota: Competency of all races would soon enough becomes equal, less troublesome, reduce government 's expenses ( administrative fee ) in implementing quota policy in education system.

*Correct me if you found any error and mistake in the information i provided*

[stupidboy]

Hehehe, headwalling.

Anyway. That's a pretty redundant question, which has probably been answered many times in this topic. The quota is "needed" to reserve spots for Bumi's.

What I was trying to say is that even without the reserved spots, many non-Bumis will STILL be rejected due to the limited supply of scholarships. Without the quota, there will undeniably be a little more non-Bumis receiving scholarships if they're good enough to best their Bumi counterparts, but many others will be less fortunate due to the highly competitive nature of the applications.

Of course there'll be the less fortunate ones. This is what you called competitions. But still I prefer to lose fair and square rather than to lose under these circumstances. Why do we "need" to reserve spots for Bumis? Everyone works hard to get a scholarship so everyone should have the same rights to get it. There's a lot of poor non-bumis out there as well. The "a little more non-bumis receiving scholarships" could be them if there's no quota.

[Glassylicious]

Of course there'll be the less fortunate ones. This is what you called competitions. But still I prefer to lose fair and square rather than to lose under these circumstances. Why do we "need" to reserve spots for Bumis? Everyone works hard to get a scholarship so everyone should have the same rights to get it. There's a lot of poor non-bumis out there as well. The "a little more non-bumis receiving scholarships" could be them if there's no quota.

Fair enough. Indeed you have a point.

I wish to reiterate that I do not support the quota system, however, as some might have been led to believe. I was just pointing out a different aspect.

[stupidboy]

My postulation based on the extracts from ReCommers:

Bumi = Chinese = Indian = Homosapien

Population = Bumis (70%) + Chinese (20%) + Indian & others (10%)

The percentage of place in univesity & securing scholarship:

*With quota = Bumis ~ 70%, Chinese ~ 20%, Indian & others ~ (10%)
*Without quota (in short run) = Bumis ~ 60%, Chinese ~ 25%, Indian & others ~ 15%
*Without quota (in long run) = Bumis ~ 70%, Chinese ~ 20%, Indian & others ~ 15%

(provided that no change in population)

Benefits without quota: Competency of all races would soon enough becomes equal, less troublesome, reduce government 's expenses ( administrative fee ) in implementing quota policy in education system.

*Correct me if you found any error and mistake in the information i provided*

I don't quite understand what your post. Mind explaining why the numbers are almost the same? :?

[lindley]

take a look at this

http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2006/05/scholarship-quotas.html

[stupidboy]

take a look at this

http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2006/05/scholarship-quotas.html

Seen it already. You've posted it somewhere in those JPA threads right? But are the numbers all real and directly from the government?

[vseehua]

i think it can be demolished once we all attain equivalent success in everything. it is not impossible, i would love to help my country to be harmonious and fair for all races.

the system has a problem in the way that govt wants to help the bumis. what heppen to the bumis is that they feel comfortable with the privilages they have. and the typical bumis are very sensitive about it. i myself want to see my race developed and play equal roles in our nation's affair, but the mentality. there will be riots if govt straight away demolish quota system. and there will be oppostion parties taking chances on these kind of situations

i realised that quota has A LOT to do with politics.Well, like youngyew said, we are not advocating the immediate abolishment of the quota system. Like everything, it had to be donw gradually, and with the correct media campaign to correct the flawed mindset created by our leaders over the last 30 years. I would also like to see every race being able to stand on it's own feet with the need for tongkat to support them. Of course, sure ideality will never exist, not in Malaysia, not in the world. But it's still pretty nice if we can get closer to that...

The government shouldn't have give so much assistance and privileges to bumis especially in term of education . No doubt , bumis who stay in rural area who don't get a very good oppurtunity should be helped so that they're as good as the others . However , I don't think race shouldn't be part of the criteria taken into accounts when they considering who are supposed to receive the seats in universities and hold the scholarships . This would be unjust . Besides , this can become the excuse used by the undeserving non-bumis to blame the government .All of those who are weak should be helped, not a certain ethnic.

A rather personal question for you, AnnDeBlurry: I thought you chose " I think it is fair." in the thread's poll?I thought the choices are supposed to be private?

One more thing is that Malaysia should follow the foot steps of most of the European countries(France, Germany, etc) by offering free educations. This would help all those poor families as well as those who live in the urban areas. And with this step, all they got to do is to offer overseas scholarships for those who really deserved it. Cause with this no one can complain that they don't have the same opportunity to further their studies. It's either you continue you studies in Malaysia or you get a scholarship cause you really excelled your studies.
Correction: Germany does not provide free tiertary education anymore. Sigh, I've mentioned this for a million times in ReCom already and nobody wants to bother themselves with correction their wrong views. Germans and international students have to pay a fee of 500++ Euros every semester if they would like to continue their university level education, irrespective of the university. Converted to the Malaysian Ringgit, it's on par with our own university fees structure or RM 2500 or so per semester.

[youngyew]

I thought the choices are supposed to be private?
Nope, it's not.. You can view the details of who voted what in the polls.

When you vote it's written very clearly "your choice will be made public".

Anyway I think for each poll, the poll author has the option of making it either public or private, and apparently the author of this poll has made it public.

So there is no illegal stalking on my part here, everything is in black and white. :P

[lindley]

oh lol no i didnt post it. maybe another recommer did, i dunno LOL.
anyway im not sure lar. i wont call it a credible source, but then again, im sure the writer mustve done his research =)

[youngyew]

According to the blog post, it's from Sinchew. But as you know, Sinchew (and all other Malaysian news website) does not keep a good archive of the old news, so it's quite impossible to find the original source now, unless you keep some newspaper clips at home. :D

[vseehua]

According to the blog post, it's from Sinchew. But as you know, Sinchew (and all other Malaysian news website) does not keep a good archive of the old news, so it's quite impossible to find the original source now, unless you keep some newspaper clips at home. :D
Yes, unfortunately. The wealth of information will be useful for future researches...

[lindley]

well, whatever it is, i guess we shouldnt be like so..whatever towards the quota system. its there means its there. no point getting upset over it all the time. just look on the bright side. or other alternatives =)

[stupidboy]

Correction: Germany does not provide free tiertary education anymore. Sigh, I've mentioned this for a million times in ReCom already and nobody wants to bother themselves with correction their wrong views. Germans and international students have to pay a fee of 500++ Euros every semester if they would like to continue their university level education, irrespective of the university. Converted to the Malaysian Ringgit, it's on par with our own university fees structure or RM 2500 or so per semester.

Sorry, didn't read about it. I thought it's still the same like last time.

[matchgirl]

i dont agree..
if something is wrong, put a stop to it...
it will do no one any good to sweep things under carpet,or topretend the problem does not exist

[vseehua]

i dont agree..
if something is wrong, put a stop to it...
it will do no one any good to sweep things under carpet,or topretend the problem does not exist
or run away from it, like what many chinese have done..

[Xon]

Phah, can you even identify the races of other people in the cyberworld? For all I know, we are just Bangsa Malaysia.

this point sound logic and great. i cant even sense the offensive atmosphere until someone mention it. but,bear in mind,silent doesnt help. so let's face it.....

IMHO,i will say a "no" to qoutas. Reason: there's no fair platform to compete. and lotsa my friends who are given priority under DEB are far more richer than me. check the handsets they use,the car they drive,how they spend......i sweat......

my 2 cents.

[starlemon]

this point sound logic and great. i cant even sense the offensive atmosphere until someone mention it. but,bear in mind,silent doesnt help. so let's face it.....

IMHO,i will say a "no" to qoutas. Reason: there's no fair platform to compete. and lotsa my friends who are given priority under DEB are far more richer than me. check the handsets they use,the car they drive,how they spend......i sweat......

my 2 cents.

everyone are hoping the gov to abolish quota system but undeniably we malaysian especially the non-bumi should face the truth..
the truth that when quota system were to abolish, here come a time where earth is no longer inhibited by human and the nature were no longer exist.
ps:sorry if sound sarcastic.

[matchgirl]

everyone are hoping the gov to abolish quota system but undeniably we malaysian especially the non-bumi should face the truth..
the truth that when quota system were to abolish, here come a time where earth is no longer inhibited by human and the nature were no longer exist.
ps:sorry if sound sarcastic.

why must we be so pessimistic??

[Xon]

everyone are hoping the gov to abolish quota system but undeniably we malaysian especially the non-bumi should face the truth..
the truth that when quota system were to abolish, here come a time where earth is no longer inhibited by human and the nature were no longer exist.
ps:sorry if sound sarcastic.

you sound honest than ever. XPXP
the truth makes all malaysian work harder and smarter in legal and non-legal ways to compete and eliminate each other.....as if ....i sound violent....

[vseehua]

everyone are hoping the gov to abolish quota system but undeniably we malaysian especially the non-bumi should face the truth..
the truth that when quota system were to abolish, here come a time where earth is no longer inhibited by human and the nature were no longer exist.
ps:sorry if sound sarcastic.
When and only when the Malaysians realize that changes must be done can the system can be removed gradually.

[stupidboy]

Even in about 10 years time, I don't think there'll be a lot of changes since that there is still a lot of stubborn Malaysians.

[kintaro_kun]

the truth that when quota system were to abolish, here come a time where earth is no longer inhibited by human and the nature were no longer exist.

either that, or when msians start to vote for parties that do not subscribe to that kind of policies.

[alepbing]

you know, apparently, the distribution of scholarships is seen to be based on the population of bumis and non-bumis. in my class, till now, we knew 7 students that received scholarships. and wooot, 4 non-bumis and 3 bumis. er

may I just say something, and I hope that no one will be offended, but don't you think this issue on quotas sparked because a race feels that they are higher scorer and more clever than the other races that have privilages? it is true right? no matter how I put out the sentence, it will still sound offensive. but I hope no one will be offended, because if you are, then you are being unfair. :) *no sarcasm, unlike some people*

either that, or when msians start to vote for parties that do not subscribe to that kind of policies.

yup, and I think by that time mosques should not play azan, because shhh, that 'disturbs' people

[Danial]

you know, apparently, the distribution of scholarships is seen to be based on the population of bumis and non-bumis. in my class, till now, we knew 7 students that received scholarships. and wooot, 4 non-bumis and 3 bumis. er

may I just say something, and I hope that no one will be offended, but don't you think this issue on quotas sparked because a race feels that they are higher scorer and more clever than the other races that have privilages? it is true right? no matter how I put out the sentence, it will still sound offensive. but I hope no one will be offended, because if you are, then you are being unfair. :) *no sarcasm, unlike some people*



I think you're right...i have a friend..a bumi as a matter of fact...straight A1 in his SPM...but didn get jpa scholarship.

[youngyew]

may I just say something, and I hope that no one will be offended, but don't you think this issue on quotas sparked because a race feels that they are higher scorer and more clever than the other races that have privilages? it is true right? no matter how I put out the sentence, it will still sound offensive. but I hope no one will be offended, because if you are, then you are being unfair. :) *no sarcasm, unlike some people*



yup, and I think by that time mosques should not play azan, because shhh, that 'disturbs' people

Most of your posts have been rather rational and levelheaded, but to be honest this post is a failed sarcasm.

It is not a matter of perception, it is a matter of truth that the overall (taking the average of the general population) academic performance of chinese is better than bumi. I am not going to resort to meaningless pseudo-obscure phrases like "this race", "that race" or "particular race", I am naming races out in the open. Yes there are definitely outstanding students and struggling students from all races; but when you are taking the general population's mean, anyone who thinks that the different races are on par is losing touch with the reality. Just go to any university and look at the distribution of results.

This is definitely not new to most people, but allow me to reiterate that the quota system is the very thing that is adversely affecting the performance of Malay academically. In Singapore where there are no quota system, apparently the Malays are doing as well as kids of any other colour.

By saying that the overall performance of chinese is higher than that of Malay, I am in no way justifying any sort of disparagement or racist behaviour between the races. In fact I categorically condemn such behaviour be it from the Chinese or the Malay. On the other hand, I am saying all these because everyone should bear in mind that the first step of solving a problem is to recognise and acknowledge the problem. I personally champion the gradual dissolution of quota system with the simultaneous plan of reviving the Malay's competitiveness in education. I am not sure about the others, but my dream is one day everyone no longer have to compare merits between the different colours; instead everyone helps each other to achieve their maximal potential regardless of this damnable divisive social construct.

Don't you think it's better that way? Yes it's an utopian dream, but at least heading towards an impossible dream is better than resting our laurels on the unhealthy status quo.

[stupidboy]

you know, apparently, the distribution of scholarships is seen to be based on the population of bumis and non-bumis. in my class, till now, we knew 7 students that received scholarships. and wooot, 4 non-bumis and 3 bumis. er

may I just say something, and I hope that no one will be offended, but don't you think this issue on quotas sparked because a race feels that they are higher scorer and more clever than the other races that have privilages? it is true right? no matter how I put out the sentence, it will still sound offensive. but I hope no one will be offended, because if you are, then you are being unfair. :) *no sarcasm, unlike some people*

yup, and I think by that time mosques should not play azan, because shhh, that 'disturbs' people

4 non-bumis and 3 bumis, so what? Why don't you state their results and their qualities and all? Scholarships being given based on the population to me is just like racism. It's also like the quota. Scholarships should be given to those who deserve them and not by following the population. Let's say there's 2 non-bumis and 8 bumis. Those 2 non-bumis got 15A1 and 12A1 respectively, 3 bumis got 15A1 and the others got 10A1. 5 would be chosen for the scholarship according to the population. That means that the non-bumi who got 12A1 won't get the scholarship but, instead, one of the bumis that got 10A1 would get it. Is this fair?

And don't you think that the quota exist because there's races who are better than others? If not, then what is the quota for? Why does it exist?



Most of your posts have been rather rational and levelheaded, but to be honest this post is a failed sarcasm.

It is not a matter of perception, it is a matter of truth that the overall (taking the average of the general population) academic performance of chinese is better than bumi. I am not going to resort to meaningless pseudo-obscure phrases like "this race", "that race" or "particular race", I am naming races out in the open. Yes there are definitely outstanding students and struggling students from all races; but when you are taking the general population's mean, anyone who thinks that the different races are on par is losing touch with the reality. Just go to any university and look at the distribution of results.

This is definitely not new to most people, but allow me to reiterate that the quota system is the very thing that is adversely affecting the performance of Malay academically. In Singapore where there are no quota system, apparently the Malays are doing as well as kids of any other colour.

By saying that the overall performance of chinese is higher than that of Malay, I am in no way justifying any sort of disparagement or racist behaviour between the races. In fact I categorically condemn such behaviour be it from the Chinese or the Malay. On the other hand, I am saying all these because everyone should bear in mind that the first step of solving a problem is to recognise and acknowledge the problem. I personally champion the gradual dissolution of quota system with the simultaneous plan of reviving the Malay's competitiveness in education. I am not sure about the others, but my dream is one day everyone no longer have to compare merits between the different colours; instead everyone helps each other to achieve their maximal potential regardless of this damnable divisive social construct.

Don't you think it's better that way? Yes it's an utopian dream, but at least heading towards an impossible dream is better than resting our laurels on the unhealthy status quo.

I agree with you all the way to the end except for the bolded part. I don't think that it's an utopian dream. We will someday achieve this dream. Someday...

[vseehua]

I agree with you all the way to the end except for the bolded part. I don't think that it's an utopian dream. We will someday achieve this dream. Someday...it's utopian because we can only get nearer to it but will never reach it

[stupidboy]

it's utopian because we can only get nearer to it but will never reach it

I still think we'll be able to fulfill this dream even if it takes 50 years. Someday...

[youngyew]

I still think we'll be able to fulfill this dream even if it takes 50 years. Someday...
The way I look at it is kind of like "absolute zero" in science - you can only get infinitesimally close but never reach it. Racism is such an innate modus operandi of human species. We will stop comparing between colours if and only if we stop comparing between, say, gender or age.

[chenjun1128]

I think its inevitable..I agree with youngyew, it will never be gone, it just gets better from time to time..I think it will eventually stay at an equilibrum where its not too extreme and is agreed by all, like the way it is now..anyway, the main reason is simple : majority of Malaysians are bumi..more population means more voting/democracy power

I think it can lower the competence of bumis more or less..If u play some kind of game, say, badminton or tennis, with tough opponents, in the long run, u will get better and reach ur full potential ; if u always play with easy opponents, u will always win and will see less reason to improve urself

I'm all out against it..I'm a chinese, non-bumi, so is there any reason I would want the quota to be effective??

[faizin]

I think its inevitable..I agree with youngyew, it will never be gone, it just gets better from time to time..I think it will eventually stay at an equilibrum where its not too extreme and is agreed by all, like the way it is now..anyway, the main reason is simple : majority of Malaysians are bumi..more population means more voting/democracy power


I agree with you..it will never be gone...majority people gets more power...so i think its no use in arguing about quota..it will only release racial sparks...im bumi n i admit that non bumi have more qualities to get more scholarship(yeah, everyone knows that)...but plz realize that abolish quota system is nearly impossible to happen unless non bumi and bumi is equal on the size of the population..that is why if government abolish the quota system, majority people(mainly bumi) will kick out the government and replace it with the new one...unless if bumi itself be more competitive and feel secured about their position to obtain the scholarship then it is a time that quota system will be abolish..that is why majority people got more power and they can choose if they want to continue the quota system or not... and i agree with chenjun that it will stay at nearly equilibrium and agreed by all races...

[vseehua]

I agree with you..it will never be gone...majority people gets more power...so i think its no use in arguing about quota..it will only release racial sparks...im bumi n i admit that non bumi have more qualities to get more scholarship(yeah, everyone knows that)...but plz realize that abolish quota system is nearly impossible to happen unless non bumi and bumi is equal on the size of the population..that is why if government abolish the quota system, majority people(mainly bumi) will kick out the government and replace it with the new one...unless if bumi itself be more competitive and feel secured about their position to obtain the scholarship then it is a time that quota system will be abolish..that is why majority people got more power and they can choose if they want to continue the quota system or not... and i agree with chenjun that it will stay at nearly equilibrium and agreed by all races...
Are you proposing that the minorities should start putting more work into increasing their share of the total population so that they are on equal terms with the current majorities?

[youngyew]

Democracy is not about mob rule. Instead, the essence of democracy is the right for the minority to tell the majority why they think the majority is not doing the right thing.

By the way, I am pretty sure the status quo isn't exactly the "equilibrium agreed by all races". Just look at, like, 50% of our current threads.

[faizin]

Are you proposing that the minorities should start putting more work into increasing their share of the total population so that they are on equal terms with the current majorities?

lol..:)):)) no...actually this is nearly impossible...because the rate of growth of the population among current majorities are very high..i think if minorities starting to put effort to increase the population it is very very hard to achieve the equality...

im only state that if somehow and someway the minorities could become equal in population with the current majorities...maybe they will have the same democracy power...and then the quota system, will be automatically equalized to all races...because quota is based on the population of the bumi and non-bumi....maybe then at that time, people are the same and racism will be almost faded and then that is the part where it comes bangsa malaysia...

[Caprio]

lol..:)):)) no...actually this is nearly impossible...because the rate of growth of the population among current majorities are very high..i think if minorities starting to put effort to increase the population it is very very hard to achieve the equality...

im only state that if somehow and someway the minorities could become equal in population with the current majorities...maybe they will have the same democracy power...and then the quota system, will be automatically equalized to all races...because quota is based on the population of the bumi and non-bumi....maybe then at that time, people are the same and racism will be almost faded and then that is the part where it comes bangsa malaysia...

Agree here.

By the way, it is not impossible.

Think about this, the minorities may 'work harder to produce more'.:)

[vseehua]

Think about this, the minorities may 'work harder to produce more'.:)This is unfortunately very true in the context of the world. a majority of the wealth in the United States are held by the Jewish minority and in Malaysia itself, the minority chinese are contributing quite a large chunk to the total exonomy growth. This is the very thing that will happen if you start to supress hardy people who had endured the ages (Jews from the Holocoust, and Chinese with lots of wars over the last 2500 years)

[kintaro_kun]

Democracy is not about mob rule. Instead, the essence of democracy is the right for the minority to tell the majority why they think the majority is not doing the right thing.

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.

[capablanca]

Agree here.

By the way, it is not impossible.

Think about this, the minorities may 'work harder to produce more'.:)

What do you mean by producing more? If you mean by population, here is a comment I just recently heard. Bumi's women produce more child because they have less right in the family. The only way to secure their position is to have more children. However, for the non bumi who are restricted by polygamy laws, the women rights and position are secured. Therefore, they have less child to promote higher living standards.

[hellyeahbaby888]

My opinion is that the quotas are one of the main reasons for racism in malaysia. other ethnics other than the bumis are unsatisfied for the fact that even if they possess better results or qualities, they still have the disadvantages compared to the bumis (whether if it's in studies, business, etc). Bumis is still 1st on list in whatever things. It lowers the competence of bumis plus other ethnics look down on them. I believe that quotas should be a NO if Malaysia really wants to build a 'Bangsa Malaysia'. Only in that way real equality will exist. the fact that there's 'fake' harmony in Malaysia is undeniable. nobody is voicing out their opinions in public is bcz it's restricted. how can u say this is a democratic country when the most vital element of it which is the freedom in voicing out ur opinions is restricted? this will only build up the hate in most non-bumis. this can be seen in the turnover in the recent election. Inside many malaysians are discontentment waiting to explode..it's just a matter of time. I'm not dissing the bumis.it's just my opinion that quotas should be an ABSOLUTE NO if we really want to live in harmony. let the dissatisfaction disappear

[vseehua]

My opinion is that the quotas are one of the main reasons for racism in malaysia. other ethnics other than the bumis are unsatisfied for the fact that even if they possess better results or qualities, they still have the disadvantages compared to the bumis (whether if it's in studies, business, etc). Bumis is still 1st on list in whatever things. It lowers the competence of bumis plus other ethnics look down on them. I believe that quotas should be a NO if Malaysia really wants to build a 'Bangsa Malaysia'. Only in that way real equality will exist. the fact that there's 'fake' harmony in Malaysia is undeniable. nobody is voicing out their opinions in public is bcz it's restricted. how can u say this is a democratic country when the most vital element of it which is the freedom in voicing out ur opinions is restricted? this will only build up the hate in most non-bumis. this can be seen in the turnover in the recent election. Inside many malaysians are discontentment waiting to explode..it's just a matter of time. I'm not dissing the bumis.it's just my opinion that quotas should be an ABSOLUTE NO if we really want to live in harmony. let the dissatisfaction disappear
Absolute no is also not the answer. The situation will turn 360? if the weaker are not helped to achieve the same status as the better offs. In this case, the Bumis will resent the Chinese if they are to dominate the scene just because of theri better results.

The best way will be to reduce the dependency on such "helps." It's time for everyone to shine on their own work and rewards, not on a tongkat...

[chenjun1128]

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance."

that's like so true

[hellyeahbaby888]

Absolute no is also not the answer. The situation will turn 360? if the weaker are not helped to achieve the same status as the better offs. In this case, the Bumis will resent the Chinese if they are to dominate the scene just because of theri better results.

The best way will be to reduce the dependency on such "helps." It's time for everyone to shine on their own work and rewards, not on a tongkat...

survival of the fittest..the strongest ones will live..same as the situation here. we are all born with the same brain, we are all able to think. I believe that even without additional help, if the bumis really work hard, they will be better too. Yes, t is time to shine on their own work and rewards, without any help. the chinese managed to survive in this country after all these years even with such hardships n without any help. the bumis can too..it is time to prove that they are not what ppl say they are

[vseehua]

survival of the fittest..the strongest ones will live..same as the situation here. we are all born with the same brain, we are all able to think. I believe that even without additional help, if the bumis really work hard, they will be better too. Yes, t is time to shine on their own work and rewards, without any help. the chinese managed to survive in this country after all these years even with such hardships n without any help. the bumis can too..it is time to prove that they are not what ppl say they are
How are they going to survive the world without opportunities?

According to your theory about the survival of the fittest, the poor may someday rise up and overthrow the strong but minority group. That is chaos. We want peace and order, not chaos...

[hellyeahbaby888]

How are they going to survive the world without opportunities?

According to your theory about the survival of the fittest, the poor may someday rise up and overthrow the strong but minority group. That is chaos. We want peace and order, not chaos...

Non-bumis were never given opportunities but still they managed to succeed. Opportunities are to be grabbed, not given. They should no longer be spoon fed. No one's gonna overthrow any1, no need for chaos. just equality

[vseehua]

Non-bumis were never given opportunities but still they managed to succeed. Opportunities are to be grabbed, not given. They should no longer be spoon fed. No one's gonna overthrow any1, no need for chaos. just equality
You should read through your history books again. When there is too huge a gap between the rich and the poor, the poor will rebel, bringing down social order...

Read again my posts, i am not advocating spoon feeding as well. People should only get as much help as they can to help them stand on their feet, not making them over reliant on it. In any case, the weak should be helped equally, regardless of race or religion

[passer-by]

Yea, I agree that the weak should be helped equally.
And in order to do that, quota system has to be abolished completely.
In my opinion, that's the only way for real equality to exist.

[matchgirl]

survival of the fittest..the strongest ones will live..same as the situation here. we are all born with the same brain, we are all able to think. I believe that even without additional help, if the bumis really work hard, they will be better too. Yes, t is time to shine on their own work and rewards, without any help. the chinese managed to survive in this country after all these years even with such hardships n without any help. the bumis can too..it is time to prove that they are not what ppl say they are

i agree, it is not fair to deem that bumis need helpin this form
if there is to be quotas then it must be economical-ability base not race-based

[cuteranger]

dun forget its their country we are staying in... bumis are kind enough to let us stay so i am not against the quota but i feel it should be lower so that ppl from other races have chances too.. take an example u are staying in malaysia and foreign workers from countries like bangladesh indonesia philippines request nationality in malaysia would u agree so easily?

[hellyeahbaby888]

You should read through your history books again. When there is too huge a gap between the rich and the poor, the poor will rebel, bringing down social order...

Read again my posts, i am not advocating spoon feeding as well. People should only get as much help as they can to help them stand on their feet, not making them over reliant on it. In any case, the weak should be helped equally, regardless of race or religion

Unfortunately when people are helped they become too dependent and they take things for granted...even if they should be helped, quota is not the answer. it makes others feel discriminated and deserving people lose out on opportunities

Yea, I agree that the weak should be helped equally.
And in order to do that, quota system has to be abolished completely.
In my opinion, that's the only way for real equality to exist.

agreed

[youngyew]

dun forget its their country we are staying in... bumis are kind enough to let us stay so i am not against the quota but i feel it should be lower so that ppl from other races have chances too.. take an example u are staying in malaysia and foreign workers from countries like bangladesh indonesia philippines request nationality in malaysia would u agree so easily?
You didn't move in, your grandparents did. It's totally different when you are talking about indonesians who migrate here. You were born here.

[vseehua]

dun forget its their country we are staying in... bumis are kind enough to let us stay so i am not against the quota but i feel it should be lower so that ppl from other races have chances too.. take an example u are staying in malaysia and foreign workers from countries like bangladesh indonesia philippines request nationality in malaysia would u agree so easily?I am a Malaysian, I was born here, my parents are Malaysian as well. I didn't choose to move in. If i am not a Malaysian then to which country do I belong to?

[cuteranger]

i know we were born here... however the 'hak keistimewaan' bumis was agreed by all races before we gain independence by the leaders back by then.. it is stated in perlembagaan malaysia as a condition for us non bumis to gain nationality so i just think we should just accept it.. but of course we have rights to speak up if the amount of quota set is just unreasonable and may ask the gov to lower it.. well its just my opinion anyway dun mean to offend anyone:)

[vseehua]

i know we were born here... however the 'hak keistimewaan' bumis was agreed by all races before we gain independence by the leaders back by then.. it is stated in perlembagaan malaysia as a condition for us non bumis to gain nationality so i just think we should just accept it.. but of course we have rights to speak up if the amount of quota set is just unreasonable and may ask the gov to lower it.. well its just my opinion anyway dun mean to offend anyone:)
The original contract states that the so-called privilege should be reviewed 10 years after independance. The Perikatan turned it's back on it by not doing any review at the time when it was supposed to do so...

[Shoblast]

Not only were you born in malaysia, you will end up paying a higher percentage of tax as well, if things go on as it does. Hows that for irony?

[WilsonCWJ]

I believe only open-minded ppl should view this thread... Im sure no one here means to offense anyone... Just speaking up wut they think...

[youngyew]

I believe only open-minded ppl should view this thread...
While close-minded people should remain close-minded? :P

[alepbing]

While close-minded people should remain close-minded? :P

hm true. but depends on the approach too. some close-minded people cannot really receive sudden exposure to open-minded worllldddd LOL

[WilsonCWJ]

While close-minded people should remain close-minded? :P

U gt me right there... Hmm how about people who claimed themselves to be open minded to read this? Usually ppl wont admit themselves as close-minded, rite? Well the main thing is not to post anything that sound too harsh. Nevertheless, this is jz an online forum, while we r trying to adopt a steady approach towards discussing various issues, i hope all cud forgive ppl who mite have ACCIDENTALLY offended someone.

[whui]

AFAIK quotas applied to many countries in the world, including America and China. Yes, America gives first priority to their citizens when it comes to job/education applications, of course. It do cause some rebels as most immigrants(especially East Asians) stife hard to get a good position economically, and most of them performed well in respective fields.
Whereas in China, they do have quotas, but it is established in order to protect the minority ethnic group in that country.
In Malaysia, quotas applied to the majority group, ie the bumis. In this case, Americans do have quotas towards IMMIGRANTS. In Malaysia, we(non-bumis) do have the citizenship. But in order achieve Vision 2020(which I know its impossible by now since we're still lagging thanks to our government), a new way of thinking should be implemented. Quotas do help the weak, but chances of losing those having real potential individuals are far more become the payoff behind this.

I believe open-mindedness should be implemented in this thread. I didn't mean to have some crucial dispute here, just to state out my opinion. No offense though.

[qdfb]

Im sorry if wat im gonna say is gonna stir up things but I jst found out dat out dat of da 2000 jpa scholarship given out..only 34 indians gt da scholarship n dats like 1.7%..I myself cant blive it but here's da website if u wanna check it out:

http://poobalan.com/blog/indian/2008/05/15/mic-unhappy-only-34-offered-jpa-scholarships/

[hellyeahbaby888]

typical....

[hfz]

This is just my 2 cents. I have not read the previous posts as my Internet isn't that fast to go through all those pages.

Let's say there is no quota whatsoever, I'm quite certain the majority getting the scholarships would be the Chinese if based of meritocracy alone. This is fair, since it is not bias in anyway. But, the Malays might not be happy about it.

So at the moment, the best way I can think is a 50:50 ratio.

[stupidboy]

This is just my 2 cents. I have not read the previous posts as my Internet isn't that fast to go through all those pages.

Let's say there is no quota whatsoever, I'm quite certain the majority getting the scholarships would be the Chinese if based of meritocracy alone. This is fair, since it is not bias in anyway. But, the Malays might not be happy about it.

So at the moment, the best way I can think is a 50:50 ratio.

50:50 would be a great improvement for now. But will we really get that far? I still wish that it'll be abolished. 0 quota. No more complaints. No more racism. Just my dream...:(

[vseehua]

Dreams are there to be fulfilled

[stupidboy]

Dreams are there to be fulfilled

it's utopian because we can only get nearer to it but will never reach it

It's like what you said. It's an utopian dream. So it can't be fulfilled.:P

[prince_J]

but, quota system is something that we have to accept, although i personally dont like it....

if we have any chance to make it a 50-50, that will be something that we can cheer for... although i doubt it will happen anytime soon...

[hfz]

http://www.jpa.gov.my/akhbar/2008/biasiswa/biasiswa.pdf

JPA claims they gave 1100 of it to Bumiputera and 900 to non-bumiputera. Its quite close to a 50-50 ratio. But specifically, its a 55-45.

[GuoSheng]

HAHA..I doubt the veracity. Perhaps, we should make our own judgement when we got into some colleges like intec and kmb.
________
WEED VAPORIZERS (http://weedvaporizers.info/)

[syafiq07]

http://www.jpa.gov.my/akhbar/2008/biasiswa/biasiswa.pdf

JPA claims they gave 1100 of it to Bumiputera and 900 to non-bumiputera. Its quite close to a 50-50 ratio. But specifically, its a 55-45.

sounds good enough :) hehe that's certainly an improvement and proved that it will most likely to continue in years to come

HAHA..I doubt the veracity. Perhaps, we should make our own judgement when we got into some colleges like intec and kmb.

Owh ,how's that will help?

edit: Guess we'll wait for your sample from the colleges jpa sending you..

[youngyew]

If 1100-900 distribution is real, it is definitely to be applauded as a move to the right direction.

[Beatles]

Quotas is definitely needed, more so as Malaysia is a multi-racial country. By this way, other races will not felt left out.

[capablanca]

Why do you think in terms of race? Why not Malaysians? After all, we are all born in this country and each of us deserve an equal opportunity. It is the survival of the fittest.

[clep]

Quotas is definitely needed, more so as Malaysia is a multi-racial country. By this way, other races will not felt left out.

Whenever there is a quota, there will be sides that will be left out or feel shortchanged.

[Beatles]

Why do you think in terms of race? Why not Malaysians? After all, we are all born in this country and each of us deserve an equal opportunity. It is the survival of the fittest.

True, the strongest survive, the weakest eliminated. But still, if there's not quota (let's say all 2000 places were given to a race), others will felt unfair though. Even PM admit that religion is still a sensitive issue. Already many people felt JPA was unfair in distributing scholarship...
Even though we know that we deserve an equal chance, but at the end of the day, it's not us who decide whether we get it or not. We can just hope for the best...

Whenever there is a quota, there will be sides that will be left out or feel shortchanged.

True, this is the downside of quota system.

[alepbing]

it is funny when we talk about quota here in our country. but what about sectors that do not practice quota system like joining the army, becoming government servants and joining the police.

these three are among some sectors where no quota is being implemented, yet we can see the ratio differences.

I do not deny that they are some sort of different since most of the time we talk about quotas, we talk about awarding the scholarships. as much as education is important, there are other things that really intrigued me.

if it is true that 900 scholars by JPA are non-bumi, then i think it is a new start, a good one. but then again, will it be fair if there will be a lot of non-bumi scholars when there is very small number of non-bumi public and government servants.

i do not deny the rights for the non-bumis to recieve education, but at the same time, other needs have to be filled equally too. why don't the non-bumis encourage their children to join the army? become police? or work with the fire department? and even become teachers?

sorry for offending. just my view

another interesting thing is that how some political parties actually fight for more scholarships awarded to their races but in the end people chose to turn their back towards these parties. poor them

and people said that when the quota is demolished, then the bumis will be more competitive. hm, not quite i think. they compare here with singapore. and they said that the malays there receive equal rights and more competitive than those of the same race as them in malaysia. but did you see what happen to the malays that made 14% of singapore's population? sadly to say the malays are actually working in ports, airports, custom, immigration, ticket counters and such. plus the fact that less malays got into their national university.

Why do you think in terms of race? Why not Malaysians? After all, we are all born in this country and each of us deserve an equal opportunity. It is the survival of the fittest.

Yes, it is true what you said. I think we can accept the fact that we are all Malaysians if all of us speak the same language. By that I mean ALL of us speak fluent national language.

because when we speak of creating bangsa malaysia, we should refer to what a 'bangsa' is. and you can look for examples from all over the world, a 'bangsa' speaks the same language. just enough example in our form 5 sejarah textbooks.

again, sorry if im offending. just voicing out my thoughts. although i feel that the quota should be implemented to help all at least, not only some. and i totally disagree with the way quota is being materealised, because it should be something to encourage, not making the bumis opting to slack since they receive more chances than non-bumis

Whenever there is a quota, there will be sides that will be left out or feel shortchanged.

true. that is why i do not like the way quota is being comprehended now. it should help the bumis, not as easy chances for them

[capablanca]

Don't worry. By the time you study a few months in college, I doubt your National language mastery will still be as good. All of us experience the same thing.

As for joining the government servant department, it is not that most don't want to join but the 'understood' barrier that prevents them from promoting any higher in that particular department. This social barrier exist everywhere because unlike the people reading here, most government servant, should I say, are very narrow minded and never been expose to the outside world.

For the police and army, that will be some problem. Police won't be that much of a problem but the army? I doubt it because with your level of education, have you ever thought of joining the army? Tepuk dada tanya selera. Plus, the recent uproar about the torture in the army camp serve to demoralize the public even more from joining the army.

[youngyew]

@<hidden>

It goes both ways. Non-bumis are systematically discriminated against in this country, including in civil service, army, police etc. Yes I have friends and families who have been through it and they have testified to the discrimination. The fact is, you can work your ass off, but somehow or rather, a bumi is going to climb up the career ladder twice as fast as you, including ones who are worse than you.

In such an environment, how do you expect more chinese to enter these sectors? And are you now even blaming them for not doing so, and taking it as an example of the race being unpatriotic, and partially justifying the discrimination?

Tell me the logic in this.

Both sides have to make a move, nothing will be changed when chinese remain reluctant to assimilate due to the discrimination, and bumis continue to quote this reluctance as a justification of the continued discrimination.

[matchgirl]

Undeniably,there is certainly something wrong in the current policies.
In other democratic countries, the government is trying to protect and help the minority, take US for instance, but here, we protect and help the majority.
Isn't it ironical??
While the minority are not entitled to any privileges, the majority is given so much help and concern...
the mentaliti tongkat or payung or whatever should be put to an end to improve the competency of young Malaysians.

[whui]

Yes, it is true what you said. I think we can accept the fact that we are all Malaysians if all of us speak the same language. By that I mean ALL of us speak fluent national language.

because when we speak of creating bangsa malaysia, we should refer to what a 'bangsa' is. and you can look for examples from all over the world, a 'bangsa' speaks the same language. just enough example in our form 5 sejarah textbooks.

Speak the same language? I believe even though we speak the all-same language, still, we're judged by skin colour and self-religion.
Mind you the term "bangsa" isn't always appointed to a group which speak the same language. In Mid-Eastern the term "bangsa" isn't based on what language spoken, but according to religion.

[alepbing]

Speak the same language? I believe even though we speak the all-same language, still, we're judged by skin colour and self-religion.
Mind you the term "bangsa" isn't always appointed to a group which speak the same language. In Mid-Eastern the term "bangsa" isn't based on what language spoken, but according to religion.

but i did mention fluently.

i think i have to disagree with you. by mid-eastern you mean middle east?
okay, let me tell you. there are arabians, jews and persians in middle east. and they are not divided by religion. not all arabians are muslims. there are christian arabs living in lebanon, jordan and syria. yet they speak the same language, that is Arabic. even most persians are muslims, they still do not consider themselves to be arabians. i dont think it is true that the 'bangsa' there is being defined by their religion.

and which bangsa that do not speak the same language? if it is like that, then will it be wrong for me to say that all the races in the world as one 'bangsa'? although we speak different languages?

[GuoSheng]

the environment is different. Ridiculous comparison.
________
Uggs (http://uggstoreshop.com/)

[alepbing]

Don't worry. By the time you study a few months in college, I doubt your National language mastery will still be as good. All of us experience the same thing.

As for joining the government servant department, it is not that most don't want to join but the 'understood' barrier that prevents them from promoting any higher in that particular department. This social barrier exist everywhere because unlike the people reading here, most government servant, should I say, are very narrow minded and never been expose to the outside world.

For the police and army, that will be some problem. Police won't be that much of a problem but the army? I doubt it because with your level of education, have you ever thought of joining the army? Tepuk dada tanya selera. Plus, the recent uproar about the torture in the army camp serve to demoralize the public even more from joining the army.

then you want to let the government servants to be those who are narrow minded for generations? without changes. i think we should make changes because government servants are important people. they are our teachers, our policmen, our soldiers and such.

and if we expect for promotions at all time, that fast, then doesnt that make us kinda greedy? plus the fact that I know government servants recieve low salaries and that is one of the major reasons.

who said you have to flunk your education to be an army? for high rankings positions, they require degrees. joining defense forces is not only becoming normal soldiers, but also becoming pilots, engineers and even the management. and these people with degrees still have to go for training just like normal soldiers, and their pay is absolutely high.

im doing economics, and i never refused if one day i got the chance to serve the ministry of defense of even the army in their management team. why not right?

@<hidden>

It goes both ways. Non-bumis are systematically discriminated against in this country, including in civil service, army, police etc. Yes I have friends and families who have been through it and they have testified to the discrimination. The fact is, you can work your ass off, but somehow or rather, a bumi is going to climb up the career ladder twice as fast as you, including ones who are worse than you.

In such an environment, how do you expect more chinese to enter these sectors? And are you now even blaming them for not doing so, and taking it as an example of the race being unpatriotic, and partially justifying the discrimination?

Tell me the logic in this.

Both sides have to make a move, nothing will be changed when chinese remain reluctant to assimilate due to the discrimination, and bumis continue to quote this reluctance as a justification of the continued discrimination.

ever think why the discrimination happens? because the number is small. i did not see my non-bumi teachers suffer while serving in the school. my mother os a govt servant, and yet she has a chinese colleageu who enjoys all the privilages that govt servants have.

i do not say that the non-bumis are being unpatriotic, but what i was saying is that why didnt they encourage and take the effort to call more non-bumis to join the sectors? instead of just fighting for education- and economic-based issues.

Undeniably,there is certainly something wrong in the current policies.
In other democratic countries, the government is trying to protect and help the minority, take US for instance, but here, we protect and help the majority.
Isn't it ironical??
While the minority are not entitled to any privileges, the majority is given so much help and concern...
the mentaliti tongkat or payung or whatever should be put to an end to improve the competency of young Malaysians.

you know, i do not get why people chose to think US is an ideal country, aka utopia world.

do you know that the only protected minority in US is the jews? they recieve a lot of privilages, since they are so called the 'tortured' one after WWII. do you know that the indigenous people of north america do not recieve privilages, and treated as equal. and yet there has not been a lot of their people (red indians) being successful, in a lot of sectors.

plus i do not think that they have policies to protect the minorities. they do not enforce any special laws to protect the Asians, persians, indians and other minor races there.

the environment is different. Ridiculous comparison.

in what way it is different? just because they have wars going on there, now it is not right to call them a 'bangsa' and that their way of being in races is different from other people in the world? just because of the wars?

or you were talking about sth else?

[capablanca]

However, in the government servant case, it is an endless cycle. How many of the government servant you see nowadays take long coffee break or just lepak around talking gossips? I seen plenty of this cases. You say we must change this, I agree but how? Assuming you enter from the bottom to climb up the ladder, you won't be the one changing your environment but it will be your environment affecting you. That is why they say stay with intelligent people and you will be one yourself. Stay with idiots and you get what I mean.

And why can't we be greedy? Why can't we expect promotion if we done a great job. I absolutely hate those who are promoted based on seniority and not meritocracy. Hence, the government servant now are just like robots who cannot think up of new ways to do something. This is not discriminatory but a fact that most of the government servants are Malay. I am sorry to say this but why did Dr. M himself called Malays to stand up to the challenge? If you are willing to be patient and not be a little greedy, where is the motivation to do your best? You will be left behind while others surpass you.

As for the army, there is a huge social barrier there. Why do you think almost all the generals are Malays? Engineers, pilots etc. Those are if you say they have degree. If you do have one, will rather be a normal soldier or find other profession?

You are doing economics, but you will consider only if you got into the management section, why not others?

And for the US, the Jews are treated better because they hold most of US economy power. Here, the minorities hold majority in economics power too but why the indifferent treatment? Yes, in US, they do practice some protection system where immigrants do not received full benefits, but their children are considered rightful citizens and all.

The non-bumis here are not immigrants. They are born here as well, why can't they be considered as first class citizen instead of second class citizens?

[whui]

but i did mention fluently.

i think i have to disagree with you. by mid-eastern you mean middle east?
okay, let me tell you. there are arabians, jews and persians in middle east. and they are not divided by religion. not all arabians are muslims. there are christian arabs living in lebanon, jordan and syria. yet they speak the same language, that is Arabic. even most persians are muslims, they still do not consider themselves to be arabians. i dont think it is true that the 'bangsa' there is being defined by their religion.

and which bangsa that do not speak the same language? if it is like that, then will it be wrong for me to say that all the races in the world as one 'bangsa'? although we speak different languages?

Just look the nearest and clearest example - Indonesia and Singapore.
Indonesians do speak the same language, and Indonesian Chinese do speak Indonesian Language fluently(since you did mention fluently). What they get? Discrimination is still rampant there.

Singapore, they practise equality among citizens. There is no quota in NUS. And because of this, they managed to climb up the ladder, being the top 100 in the world and now surpass far beyond Malaysian UM which is lagging and not even the top 200(I bet not even the top 500). You'd said not many Malays managed to secure a place in Singapore's Unis, let me ask you, since there's only 14% of Malays(as what you mentioned) in Singapore then the number admitted is relatively small, provided they have guts and potential to compete each other.(Whats wrong if they willing to work hard, Singapore's Government will give them a chance wouldn't they?)

I don't think I need the example of Jordan Syira and bla bla to explain the whole picture about "bangsa". Just look at these two countries and judge ourself just like looking at the mirror.


ever think why the discrimination happens? because the number is small. i did not see my non-bumi teachers suffer while serving in the school. my mother os a govt servant, and yet she has a chinese colleageu who enjoys all the privilages that govt servants have.

Your non-bumi teacher don't suffer? Sorry I've got to say you just don't get the whole picture.
Look at SJK(C) and SJK(T)s. Back to when I was primary school, the desks, school buildings etc were sponsored by who? Our parents, teachers, and school's PIBGs. Most revenues came from our parents' donation to the school. We need to reconstruct our school buildings so desperately and yet, the government gave better concerns to SKs. Look at SKs school desks and SJK(C)s'. You will get what I mean.

i do not say that the non-bumis are being unpatriotic, but what i was saying is that why didnt they encourage and take the effort to call more non-bumis to join the sectors? instead of just fighting for education- and economic-based issues.

Education is the basis towards modernization and civilisation. I don't see anything wrong cuz sooner or later we're to be serving the country, in some cases which require us to join those sectors, and to fight about economic-based issues. My dad was an army, the bekas perajurit. Then I can say he's patriotic though.

[Danial]

Fight Fight Fight....haha (sorry out of topic)....well, to be honest, Malaysia is one of those countries that have weakness and not perfect...oh hell, there is no such perfect country in this world....(if you think u found one, you must be in Lala land). What i'm trying to say is, imperfectness(i dunno whether this word even existed or not...but u guys get what it means right?) have existed since man came to this world. The concept of groups of people which we called it race cannot be removed from our heart and soul till the end of the world. Its like a permanent stain on a plain paper that we inherited from our forefathers and we inherit them to our young ones.

The one thing that man has failed to do is looking another person as another human being instead of another race. The only way to throw all this bumi and non-bumi or chinese, indian, malay and thousands other races in this world is make people look each other as a human, as a homosapien, as a species. We may have different backgrounds and so on...but we came from the same world....we have same color of blood( I know this has been used many times XD...) However, we, so called far more superior than any other living organisms on earth failed to realised that.

(Hehe...Dont flame me for this...just pointing out what i feel...damn i always wanted to write something like this)

[whui]

Haha..Yea I love this thread..and forum..its one of the way to voice out my opinions since I'm not a sibuk gossip sini-sana newspaper reporter..ROTFL

[youngyew]

ever think why the discrimination happens? because the number is small.
I hope that this is not "yet another justified reason" for discrimination.

Please don't forget the other side of the coin: "ever think why the number is small? because discrimination happens"

Look at both sides, you can't just always look at only one side.

I know that very often we only look at one side too, and it's my sincere wish that you and I start understanding each other's position and make a move, instead of harping on only one biased perspective and conveniently ignore the others.

[ElansarGelmir]

I voted against the quota system. 3 - 4 years back, my reason would be that it promotes discrimination as most of you have argued for. However, I would like to add several other reasons why I am still against the quota system.

Like many other recommers have noted, it promotes incompetence among those who have become too dependent on government aid. In some sense, many of those who are used to expecting aid do not see a gift or award as an opportunity or chance to improve themselves. Therefore, they fail to appreciate the aid and do not fully utilize this opportunity.

In general, quotas allocate resources inefficiently. Quotas encourage inefficient parties to grow at high opportunity cost while put a limitation on those who can yield higher return. While it is common for a limited no. of scholarships there would be many deserving individuals who do not obtain scholarships, it is inconceivable that there are many of those who do not come close to fulfilling the requirements for the scholarship surpass the former group. Like al_bert has also noted, extra resources needed to be allocated to ensure the quota system is enforced. On top of that, quotas also allow for more corruption.

I certainly would not deny the opportunity to help those who are in need of the scholarship; however, there are more efficient and effective ways to do that other than imposing a quota.

To those who think that they deserve the scholarship but fail to obtain them from the government, look for other resources instead of focusing on this racial issue that is definitely not going away in the short run. If you are really talented, other countries would mostly welcome you and your brain. Nobody can stop you from getting scholarships elsewhere and some sponsors do not require your commitment to work with them.

*I realize that quotas are not limited to scholarship, but it seems to be the main focus here*

[t]

This article is taken from The Star (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/6/1/nation/20080601181315&sec=nation)

______
PETALING JAYA: Increasing the quota for non-bumiputras for Public Services Department (PSD) scholarships (http://archives.thestar.com.my/last365days/default.aspx?query=psd) without increasing the actual number of scholarships has drastically affected the bumiputras, the Umno Youth Education Bureau said.
Its chairman Ahmad Ikmal Ismail said while the bureau agreed with the Government to give more scholarships to non-bumiputras, it did not agree with the way it was done.
?The quota for non-bumiputras has increased from 10% to 45% but the number of total scholarships has remained at 2,000.?
Ahmad Ikmal said this meant that scholarships were being taken from the bumiputras to be given to the non-bumiputras.
?We object to this move because it now means 700 scholarships for bumiputra students are gone,? he said.
Ahmad Ikmal said a better way would be to use the New Economic Policy concept to increase the number of total scholarships so that the bumiputras were not affected and the non-bumiputras got even more opportunities.
?For example, if the 'cake' was increased to 3,000 scholarships, using a ratio of 70:30, then bumiputras would get 2,100 places while non-bumiputras would get 900 places,? he said.
Ahmad Ikmal said although it would require more money to implement, education was an investment that was needed to develop society and the country.
He added that there were also instances of well-performing bumiputra students who failed to obtain scholarships from the PSD.

[WilsonCWJ]

I guess the umno youth department forgets to take MARA scholarships which is meant solely for bumis into account...

[youngyew]

All politicians conveniently forget things at one time or another.

[t]

Tidak adil 45% untuk bukan bumiputera
May 29, 08 3:50pm
Membuka peluang besar sehingga 45 peratus kepada bukan bumiputera menikmati biasiswa tidak "mewujudkan keadilan sosial" di negara ini, kata Angkatan Belia Islam Malaysia (Abim).

Kerajaan semalam mengumumkan pengenalan dasar baru itu untuk biasiswa Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) bagi program ijazah luar negara berkuatkuasa mulai tahun ini.

Langkah menaikkan peluang tersebut, yang asalnya dengan peratusan 10 bukan bumiputera dan 90 untuk bumiputera, adalah "tidak tepat dan tersasar daripada matlamat" dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan seperti termaktub sebagai keistimewaan Melayu, kata setiausaha agung Abim, Khairul Arifin Mohd Munir.

"Mengambil kira tiga faktor, sudah pasti menaikkan peratusan pembahagian biasiswa (untuk) bukan bumiputera kepada 45 peratus, iaitu peratusan hampir sama dengan bumiputera, sama sekali tidak mencerminkan sebuah dasar yang dilaksanakan ke arah mewujudkan keadilan sosial di negara ini," katanya, .

Faktor-faktor tersebut, tambahnya, jumlah penduduk bumiputera lebih tinggi, kadar kemiskinan dalam kalangan bumiputera juga tinggi, dan mereka khususnya di Sabah dan Sarawak masih ketinggalan dalam bidang profesional.

"Adalah jelas bahawa kedudukan bumiputera masih perlu diperkasakan," kata Khairul Arifin lagi.

"Dalam jangka masa panjang, keputusan ini akan terus merugikan dan menyebabkan bumiputera terus ketinggalan di belakang."

Beliau bagaimanapun berhujah, peruntukan hak istimewa bumiputera, khususnya Melayu, bukanlah untuk mengatasi kemiskinan semata-mata tetapi ia menjadi "kontrak sosial dan quid pro quo" antara Melayu dengan kaum-kaum lain menjelang kemerdekaan.

"Maka, walaupun selepas 50 tahun (merdeka), peruntukan ini perlu dipertahankan kerana ia menjadi elemen asasi yang mencirikan Perlembagaan Persekutuan dan pembinaan negara ini," tambahnya.

Abim turut mempertikaikan langkah ini yang dibuat tanpa penjelasan lanjut dan "tergesa-gesa" tanpa kajian terperinci untuk mengenal pasti permasalahan sebenar.

Berlatar senario politik pasca pilihanraya umum 8 Mac, katanya, pertubuhan itu bimbang sentimen perkauman khususnya bumiputera akan memuncak jika mereka tidak menerima penjelasan tersebut.

"Tindakan menaikkan peratusan (bukan bumiputera) ini ... akan menyebabkan banyak pihak, khususnya bumiputera berasa marah dan tidak berpuas hati," katanya.

"(Tanpa penjelasan meyakinkan), secara pasti (dasar baru) akan menimbulkan kesan sentimen perkauman dan rasialisme ... tanpa dielakkan lagi."

source:http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/83642

i have nothing to comment here.. just wanted to share with you guys this piece of news i read few days back.

[WilsonCWJ]

This is meant to be a debate thread right?
Well, I vote against quota system obviously...
Referring to the news posted, I dont get what the fuss is about... I thought it is stated dat ppl wif family income < rm1500 with 10A1 can secure JPA scholarships automatically.. i believe its helping those who are said to be left behind in professional fields... even if more scholarships are offered to bumis... can they guarantee that the "social gap" they claim to exist to be narrowed? I dont think so. Only the cream of the bumis can benefit from it... what about those who are left behind in professional fields? If they dont work for it, they wont benefit from it, anyway...

[SpRInG]

Quote system should be demolished once and for all. Our beloved ministers who still earnestly believe in quota system is wholeheartedly looking down at the true ability and competitiveness of bumiputras. One can view this as spoon feeding a fully-able adult. The feeder who earnestly think that the feedee needs his/her spoonfeed is at a full-blown scale insulting the feedee, because (s)he thinks that the feedee cannot find food for his/her own. As simple as that.

[capablanca]

Why do they put up about New Economic Policy again when it is stated that NEP is abolished in the 1990.

[lwk88]

they want more and more scholarships (birth rate is growing others are decreasing). in conclusion, JPA, MARA, GLC company (telekom, tnb, petronas, pnb, etc) are not enough

to UMNO Youth Education Bureau (dont forget that JPA let bumi choose between JPA or Mara. thats why i include mara scholarship):
JPA(2000) + Mara(1000) = 3000
Bumi JPA(1100) + Mara (1000) = 2100
So, Bumi percentage 2100/3000=70%

[WilsonCWJ]

Why do they put up about New Economic Policy again when it is stated that NEP is abolished in the 1990.

As usual, some politicians speak faster than they think...

[vimal06]

I seriously think this country is simply going down the drain... When one is denied the right to study simply because of his or her skin, its a sure sign that the country is degreesing into an era equal to the Dark Ages... Pathetic politicians destroying a beautiful country...

[vseehua]

I seriously think this country is simply going down the drain... When one is denied the right to study simply because of his or her skin, its a sure sign that the country is degreesing into an era equal to the Dark Ages... Pathetic politicians destroying a beautiful country...

no one is denying any other the right to study here. And scholarship is not a right as well, it's a priviledge.

If you cannot get the scholarship, there are lots of other ways to continue your studies, and no, it's not the end of the world...

[t]

PKPIM: Biasiswa untuk semua May 30, 08 12:12pm Persatuan Kebangsaan Pelajar Islam Malaysia (PKPIM) membantah langkah kerajaan menaikkan kuota biasiswa untuk bukan bumiputera sehingga 45 peratus dengan mencadangkan peruntukan biasiswa diberikan kepada semua. "PKPIM bertegas bahawa kuota 45 peratus harus dihapuskan," kata presidennya Mohd Hilmi Ramli. Beliau tidak bersetuju kerajaan menggunakan isu kuota untuk menangani tuntutan biasiswa dalam kalangan bukan bumiputera. "Dengan bermain dengan kuota, sebenarnya kerajaan mencipta jarak yang lebih jauh dalam menangani isu rakyat Malaysia secara menyeluruh, iaitu antara bumiputera dan bukan Bumiputera," katanya. "Kerajaan tidak sewajarnya mendiskriminasi mereka yang layak di kalangan bukan bumiputera." Persatuan pelajar itu juga mencadangkan biasiswa diberikan semua pelajar bumiputera kerana hak tersebut termaktub dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan. "Kerajaan harus menunaikan hak mahasiswa bumiputera untuk menerima biasiswa tanpa berkecuali seperti termaktub dalam Perlembagaan," katanya. Kerajaan kelmarin mengumumkan pengenalan dasar baru itu untuk biasiswa Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) bagi program ijazah luar negara berkuatkuasa mulai tahun ini. Langkah menaikkan peluang tersebut, yang asalnya dengan peratusan 10 bukan bumiputera dan 90 untuk bumiputera, dibantah oleh Angkatan Belia Islam Malaysia (Abim), sebuah pertubuhan yang dekat dengan PKPIM. Abim semalam menyifatkan keputusan kerajaan itu tidak akan "mewujudkan keadilan sosial" di negara ini kerana kuota biasiswa 90 peratus untuk bumiputera "tidak tepat dan tersasar daripada matlamat" dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan seperti termaktub sebagai keistimewaan Melayu. Setiausaha agung Abim, Khairul Arifin Mohd Munir berkata kadar kemiskinan dalam kalangan bumiputera juga tinggi dan mereka khususnya di Sabah dan Sarawak masih ketinggalan dalam bidang profesional. source: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/83684

[vseehua]

PKPIM: Biasiswa untuk semua May 30, 08 12:12pm Persatuan Kebangsaan Pelajar Islam Malaysia (PKPIM) membantah langkah kerajaan menaikkan kuota biasiswa untuk bukan bumiputera sehingga 45 peratus dengan mencadangkan peruntukan biasiswa diberikan kepada semua. "PKPIM bertegas bahawa kuota 45 peratus harus dihapuskan," kata presidennya Mohd Hilmi Ramli. Beliau tidak bersetuju kerajaan menggunakan isu kuota untuk menangani tuntutan biasiswa dalam kalangan bukan bumiputera. "Dengan bermain dengan kuota, sebenarnya kerajaan mencipta jarak yang lebih jauh dalam menangani isu rakyat Malaysia secara menyeluruh, iaitu antara bumiputera dan bukan Bumiputera," katanya. "Kerajaan tidak sewajarnya mendiskriminasi mereka yang layak di kalangan bukan bumiputera." [b]Persatuan pelajar itu juga mencadangkan biasiswa diberikan semua pelajar bumiputera kerana hak tersebut termaktub dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan.[b] "Kerajaan harus menunaikan hak mahasiswa bumiputera untuk menerima biasiswa tanpa berkecuali seperti termaktub dalam Perlembagaan," katanya. Kerajaan kelmarin mengumumkan pengenalan dasar baru itu untuk biasiswa Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) bagi program ijazah luar negara berkuatkuasa mulai tahun ini. Langkah menaikkan peluang tersebut, yang asalnya dengan peratusan 10 bukan bumiputera dan 90 untuk bumiputera, dibantah oleh Angkatan Belia Islam Malaysia (Abim), sebuah pertubuhan yang dekat dengan PKPIM. Abim semalam menyifatkan keputusan kerajaan itu tidak akan "mewujudkan keadilan sosial" di negara ini kerana kuota biasiswa 90 peratus untuk bumiputera "tidak tepat dan tersasar daripada matlamat" dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan seperti termaktub sebagai keistimewaan Melayu. Setiausaha agung Abim, Khairul Arifin Mohd Munir berkata kadar kemiskinan dalam kalangan bumiputera juga tinggi dan mereka khususnya di Sabah dan Sarawak masih ketinggalan dalam bidang profesional. Since when is scholarship considered a "right?"

[SpRInG]

Ever since the government started giving out scholarships, it has then being considered a "right", especially by a certain group of people.

[kintaro_kun]

Ever since the government started giving out scholarships, it has then being considered a "right", especially by a certain group of people.

that certain group of ppl = all msian students

dun blif me? consult letters of protests written by JPA applicants of all races.

for far too long msian parents and students have considered the JPA sships as "salary" for their study effort. when students get a number of As, they blif the taxpayers "owe" them a salary of hundreds of thousands of ringgit. this must be the best job in the world ever. it requires 2 years of work effort, and requires only SPM level education, to get a minimum RM500,000 salary.

the next phenomena would be, parents and uni graduates would consider employment at top companies to be "salaries" for their study effort at uni. to be rejected for a job would warrant letters of protests to the newspapers denouncing top companies for denying their "rights of remuneration" for their "hard work" done at uni.

[Caprio]

Favoritism prevails in the award of schoarship, it is not only essentially true, but also it is a fact.

[unsolvedcryptex]

quotas are completely useful for the first development of a country.our country has reached more than 50 years of independece.giving quotas to bumis at a high percentage for such a long period is definitely showing no results in bumi's competency.it must be this time that we take out the quota system and giv scholarships based on merit instead.quotas can onli b given to handicaped or poor students.then it will raise bumis competency.

does our government even realise that we r doing this quota system for decades but we r not moving forward or they just chose to forsake it?

[louis8_8wang]

The lack of transparency and the quotas system are obviously the major obstacles in the education system. All of us should be treated the same if the government have the intention to built a harmony society.

However, circumstances have obliged some of the people, especially the youth, to leave this land to pursue their studies or chase their dreams.

Undeniable, our society has been deeply ingrained with racial culture. Say no to quotas, however, it is easier to preach than practise.

[michelle_k]

I don't understand why quota system is always used in distributing scholarships and placement in certain unis and local matric colleges....:notrust

For example, the distribution of JPA scholarships should be based on merit+family background+ Koku... Why the quota system instead?!!!:amazed
It's really unfair!

All of us should be equally treated and enjoy the same privileges...:nod

[runninghorse]

quotas are completely useful for the first development of a country.our country has reached more than 50 years of independece.giving quotas to bumis at a high percentage for such a long period is definitely showing no results in bumi's competency.it must be this time that we take out the quota system and giv scholarships based on merit instead.quotas can onli b given to handicaped or poor students.then it will raise bumis competency.

does our government even realise that we r doing this quota system for decades but we r not moving forward or they just chose to forsake it?

I concur with your opinion. Quota is there to bring reformation in the society in the beginning and to narrow the gap between races but if it persists for too long, it will bring the opposite effect.

[zheyan]

The lack of transparency and the quotas system are obviously the major obstacles in the education system. All of us should be treated the same if the government have the intention to built a harmony society.

However, circumstances have obliged some of the people, especially the youth, to leave this land to pursue their studies or chase their dreams.

Undeniable, our society has been deeply ingrained with racial culture. Say no to quotas, however, it is easier to preach than practise.

I cant agree more with you. I know a Malaysian who doesnt intend to come back to Malaysia forever after he completes his studies. It's all because of racial discrimination and poor governance of our country. We may have first-world infrastructures but our country is governed by third-world politicians....

[unsolvedcryptex]

I concur with your opinion. Quota is there to bring reformation in the society in the beginning and to narrow the gap between races but if it persists for too long, it will bring the opposite effect.

like wat u said.if persists too long,it will bring the opposite effect.i think it has been too long.after more than 50 years,the gap still seems large.altho generally chinese are richer than other race, we cannot deny that,but family background should be used instead if thatz the case to narrow gap.if we were to say bumis are poor then we should use family background instead of quotas.im sure some non-bumis are poor also

[louis8_8wang]

like wat u said.if persists too long,it will bring the opposite effect.i think it has been too long.after more than 50 years,the gap still seems large.altho generally chinese are richer than other race, we cannot deny that,but family background should be used instead if thatz the case to narrow gap.if we were to say bumis are poor then we should use family background instead of quotas.im sure some non-bumis are poor also
Actually, I'm not very agree with that highlighted phrase. For an instance, a Chinese family has RM2000 income and a X family has RM4000 income. (As we all known, some of the people have more children in their family) The Chinese family has 4 family members. On the other hand, the X family has 10 family members.
AVERAGE: Each person gained in Chinese family= RM2000/4=RM 500.
Each person gained in X family= RM 4000/10=RM 400

Conclusion, the Chinese family is richer than X family. These is what I guess how the government was doing their mathematics.

[eve88]

Thats why in scholarship/financial aid application forms theres a section both for parent's income and number/age of siblings - so that the proper financial information can be obtained....

If we're using financial difficulties as one criteria, thats how to properly do it - instead of assuming, say, all people of race x are poorer than race y.

[unsolvedcryptex]

Actually, I'm not very agree with that highlighted phrase. For an instance, a Chinese family has RM2000 income and a X family has RM4000 income. (As we all known, some of the people have more children in their family) The Chinese family has 4 family members. On the other hand, the X family has 10 family members.
AVERAGE: Each person gained in Chinese family= RM2000/4=RM 500.
Each person gained in X family= RM 4000/10=RM 400

Conclusion, the Chinese family is richer than X family. These is what I guess how the government was doing their mathematics.

i dun get wat ure trying to say ...hmm seems like ure also trying to say chinese family are richer rite?im aledi saying chinese family are generally richer

wtv it is.if the calculation is done.then its better than looking at race.

[louis8_8wang]

i dun get wat ure trying to say ...hmm seems like ure also trying to say chinese family are richer rite?im aledi saying chinese family are generally richer

wtv it is.if the calculation is done.then its better than looking at race.
erm...You really didn't get what i mean.

[unsolvedcryptex]

erm...You really didn't get what i mean.

yea..i dun.haha..explain again ler..im quite stupid wan u know

[louis8_8wang]

In my opinion, people should have proper family planning. If their family income is relatively low, they should have less children. On the other hand, if they are rich, they can opt to have more children as long as they are able to support their education expenses.

A family has RM2000 income................... Y family has RM4000 income.
4 family members .................................. 10 family members( more child)
Each can get RM 500 ............................. Each can get RM 400


When it comes to statistic, average of X race has higher income than Y race.
What i want to stress is proper family planning.

[unsolvedcryptex]

In my opinion, people should have proper family planning. If their family income is relatively low, they should have less children. On the other hand, if they are rich, they can opt to have more children as long as they are able to support their education expenses.

A family has RM2000 income................... Y family has RM4000 income.
4 family members .................................. 10 family members( more child)
Each can get RM 500 ............................. Each can get RM 400


When it comes to statistic, average of X race has higher income than Y race.
What i want to stress is proper family planning.


ooooh..now i get it...but is it related to our topic?haha..i mean like...we shudnt use race to gif scholarships.assuming x is chinese.and y is bumi,of coz y has quite a higher chance to get it.regardless of they r bumi.but wat if the age diff is just one year between each child.every year also gif family Y?im fine if they use this way to calculate.but also,results counts.

and i dun really get wat ure saying hehe..shudnt we ask family Y to do a proper family planning instead?

[vampiric_guy_01]

i dont really agree with the quotas system in education ... if there's quotas means unfairness in education ..its just slightly better than apartheid in education only ....
come-on man..... its alrd indepedent for 53 and going to 54 years alrd...all of us are malaysian ...1Malaysia , so dont take racial as a point in education

[SapphireDragon]

i dont really agree with the quotas system in education ... if there's quotas means unfairness in education ..its just slightly better than apartheid in education only ....
come-on man..... its alrd indepedent for 53 and going to 54 years alrd...all of us are malaysian ...1Malaysia , so dont take racial as a point in education

We can make all the noise in the world but with the likes of certain politicians who defend the so-called "Malay rights" right to the very end, I don't expect to see changes in the next decade or so. I only hope that the next generation of leaders will open their eyes and realise what a mess previous leaders have done.

[vampiric_guy_01]

We can make all the noise in the world but with the likes of certain politicians who defend the so-called "Malay rights" right to the very end, I don't expect to see changes in the next decade or so. I only hope that the next generation of leaders will open their eyes and realise what a mess previous leaders have done.


ya ..agree..really hope that the next generation leader which is our generation will be open-minded and liberalise in the way they handle matter .... let's just hope for the true 1 malaysia although had been disappointed by now

[lxy]

we cant deny da quota things is obvious...but then if there is quota,why does the government make the policy-10a1 withn income 1500 sure get it?thats what i dont understand

well, like vseehua said, there are poor ppl of all races. this policy (in a way) helps to ensure that those who fall into this category get a chance at the scholarship regardless of racial background. the quota system looks more towards race than the amount of salary your parents bring home every month.

[hidupmelayu]

The quota is ultimately self-defeating. If the government doesn't stop breast-feeding the bumiputeras, they'll never become independent enough to truly build this nation

[lxy]

The quota is ultimately self-defeating. If the government doesn't stop breast-feeding the bumiputeras, they'll never become independent enough to truly build this nation

yeah, i agree. but to pull the spoon away from the baby...would probably be hard.

[samuel]

yeah, i agree. but to pull the spoon away from the baby...would probably be hard.

Hahaha.
Can you imaging a 54 years old 'boy' sucking those pacifier/soother.

[lxy]

Hahaha.
Can you imaging a 54 years old 'boy' sucking those pacifier/soother.

lol!! seriously! hahaha.the proverbial pacifier. haha. :P