Who would be the new Deputy PM

[James]

I think Muhiddin would have the highest chance to be the next Deputy PM. His economy education and exposure background can complement well with Pak Lah.

[chenchow]

Personally, I would think that Najib is the most qualified, but it looks like Najib would have a tough time being selected. I won't be surprise if Rafidah Aziz being selected. May be Hishammuddin?

[bachok83]

it's Najib....

see guys

T, Abdul RAHMAN

R = Rahman
A = Abdul Razak
H = Hussien Onn
M = Mahathir
A = Abdullah
N = ??? who else, Najib :D:D

[littlebigone]

broken logic...

[taufiq]

hehe bachok.. remember that Nur Azmi who claimed to be the next Prime Minister of Malaysia... he makes me laugh..

[Thirdshifter]

I hope the next deputy Minister is not a Malay. Barisan needs to start divirsify it's Administration.

[chenchow]

I still think that the new DPM would come from UMNO. There is no really capable star in either of BN component party that could ably hold the DPM position. If Datuk Seri Dr. Ling Leong Sik is still around, that may be a minute possibility, but don't think Datuk Seri Dr. Lim Keng Yaik or Datuk Seri Ong Ka Ting qualified to be DPM at current stage.

Do any of you anticipate anyone out of the VPs or UMNO becoming DPM? I was thinking Rais Yatim, Syed Hamid Albar as possibility, although I won't discount Datuk Ghazzali, our Ambassador of Malaysia to US. Datuk Ghazzali is a very able leader and is very knowledgable.

[ciwan]

what do u guys think of Najib Tun Razak ... he's aggresive just like Dr. M.. he always bring new ideas to the table. look at he did with the SPM format when he took over the education ministry ... he changed the agregat system to grade system and allow people to take more subjects if they are capable.

[littlebigone]

what's the difference between grade system and aggregate system?

[chenchow]

Basically it is a slightly different concept. Previously is A1, A2, C3, C4, C5, C6, P7, P8, F9. Now it is A1, A2, B3, B4, C5, C6, D7, E8, F9. Plus, now there is no more 1st class (Pangkat 1), 2nd class etc.. Moreover, there is the flexibility, which previously is each person takes 9/10 courses, now you could take between 6-25 courses.

[Diesel]

well, i like Chua Jui Meng.

[masterof_none]

Chua Jui Meng?. What has he done?

[littlebigone]

so he changed the lettering for the grade?

[chenchow]

Basically a change of lettering..., i am not too sure about its significance though....

On Chua Jui Meng, he is definitely not a right choice. He is still a junior minister in cabinet....Even among the ministers in MCA, he is definitely not among the 3 most seniors. So, for him to be DPM, it is impossible.

[mpalanieppan]

I think a non-Malay DPM is outright impossible at this moment. Pak Lah has just gotten his post and I do not think he would take a step that might be perceived as radical. Malaysia still needs to mature before it can accept a possibility of a non Malay DPM. Probably at least 30 yrs? I do not know. As to Najib, I do not think he has done anything significant to improve our education system- of course allowing more subjects to be taken was certainly good, but I do not think that did not do much good except to ambitious students. And I am not sure whether the grade system was ever removed. If I am not mistaken, the results are still in terms of A1,B3 etc. He made many promises I think, but not sure how many of them was implemented.i cannot remember even one. Certainly, he is next in line with seniority in UMNO etc., but I think people like Rais Yatim is more capable -Look at the Malaysian judicial system now after took the post of Law Minister (or is it Minister of Legal Affairs or sth..) However, he has history in UMNO (following Tengku Razaleigh to Semangat 46 etc.), so he has a very slim chance I guess. Let us see who becomes the DPM. But from what I see, if Abdullah really wanted Najib, I am sure he would have already been appointed -it seems a natural choice...But apparently, there are other considerations i believe, that is why Pak Lah is trying to let things cool down first, observe the minister etc...

M.Palanieppan

[eeyore]

how about samy vellu?

[mpalanieppan]

OMG, Eeyore.....Chinese DPM also so difficult, Indian DPM?No chance...

M.Palanieppan

[littlebigone]

but i think badawi is very multi-racial kind of guy. it would be cool if he had like dpm1 and dpm2 and one from mca and one from mic...heheheh

[chenchow]

i would think that Rais Yatim and Najib are the two most qualified UMNO leaders that we could foresee. Rafidah Aziz may get a shot. But I think odds are Najib would get it, and the only problem is that Najib and Badawi are not in good terms. Najib used to be in Warisan Team in 1993, which eventually causes Badawi to go out of cabinet for 3 years...

I read in papers some time ago, that Badawi do not even own a house currently.

[__earth]

i would think that Rais Yatim and Najib are the two

Now that's a thought. I find that I really like Rais Yatim but at the same time, Muhyiddin Yasin could do just right because of his exposure to consumers' issues - a real economics stuff. But then, I think Rais is better since, he is a bit less of being orang kuat UMNO. It's annoying to see govt. officials being too biased toward the ruling party. Plus, Rais is the old man of the forest. He is a veteran like Ku Li and currently is the UN's Human-rights-whatever chairman. I see nobody as illustrations as him, expect maybe, Karpal Singh but too bad he's with DAP. He certainly would be as loud as Anwar Ibrahim if he were given a shot at the DPM spot.

And Najib, too many politicking spoils a man.
I didn't like how he handled the education issue in the past and I don't see what he did for the defense issue either. Yeah, we changed our source of defense equipments from the US to Russia but that, I suspect was the work of our Tun Dr. Mahathir.

[Dharman100]

Well..ppl..I will strongly put my money on one prominent personality in Malaysia..Dato Seri Tajol Rosli..Our Perak CM:. Hmm..I am not from Perak..But I have heard a lot about this man..Check out his details and history with UMNO and also his contributions to Perak..I think its time for him to enter the cabinet..
I strongly feel thats he is going to NO 2 in the federal government soon..

How is that??

I think he is the best candidate..

Dharman100

[chenchow]

I would agree with Dharman100 about Datuk Seri Tajol Rosli being a prominent figure. Read the news articles that i posted yesterday.. One of the prominent universities from Massachusetts are coming up in Perak.. they did not disclose which one, but guess MIT, harvard, Boston, Tuft, Brandeis,... any of those would be fantastic for Malaysia...

[littlebigone]

Chen Chow, surely you're not saying that he's a prominent figure based on that one news article? Could you provide more info?

[topdog]

One of the prominent universities from Massachusetts are coming up in Perak.. they did not disclose which one, but guess MIT, harvard, Boston, Tuft, Brandeis,... any of those would be fantastic for Malaysia...

Brandeis?! Please lah, it's a Jewish university lah...

[eeyore]

nope, not brandeis ... it's a Jewish-sponsored college.

[chenchow]

I am sorry about that, i did not realize about it.. in fact, i mention those few unis with littlebigone and eeyore, they did not tell me also...sorrie for my oversight..

[CrAzyCow]

Me! Me!





...just joking..

[eeyore]

hey u didn't mention brandeis to me ... u just mentioned mit, harvard, boston and tuft

i think there's a good chance of dato seri muhyidin getting the post. but then, politic is weird...so....dunno 8O

[mpalanieppan]

Muhyiddin Yassin? I do not see how he can become DPM. Has he ever done anything significant at all, both within UMNO and as a minister? Maybe I am just ignorant, in that case enlighten me.

M.Palanieppan

[mpalanieppan]

And about Tajol Rosli, it is quite surprising, I was not aware of his prominence....But I suppose it will be some time before he becomes a minister i suppose....

M.Palanieppan

[Thirdshifter]

With an assumption that BN actually would loose the next election. or not win the majority seats of the parliament.. i would have to assume again that The politics in Malaysia would definitely change dramatically.

I'd have to say that *if* Anwar is to be released soon-say in 4-5 years-he would definitely gain popularity votes given that spr isn't as corrupted as it is today.

other then that, i actually don't give a damn. What difference would it make if its Badawi the PM or Mahathir or Sammy vellu? All three would make good leaders and good speakers but they share common ideas and goals. I'm looking for a better goverment , Not that i am an anti-goverment-reformist-freeAnwar-NoISA type of guy.. but Barisan nasional was good for about an hour i need a different view.

[__earth]

tell u what, though im not a govt fan, there's no way bn gonna lose. ur assumption is baseless.

and imo, it's important to decide and know who is the next dpm regardless whether u give a damn or not. a lot of things do depend on it.

though bn is no way good for msia's health, unfortunately for you and for me, its the best option. choosing the opposition literally means committing suicide

[CrAzyCow]

I agree with earth. Although BN might not be as vigorous or as transparent as we want it too, they have brought many benefits to the country. Every leader has their bad side. But try not to always look at their bad side. They might hav reasons tht are not revealed to us. So let's keep an eye on them while giving them our support.

[Thirdshifter]

and imo, it's important to decide and know who is the next dpm regardless whether u give a damn or not. a lot of things do depend on it.


And please educate me, how exactly are you gonna help decide your next DPM? AFAIK your input is as useless as a dead cat to our goverment. Also last time i checked DPM is appointed not elected. So is the PM.

Also how could may assumption be baseless? An Assumption is an assumption, Just like opinions.

Are you sure that electing a goverment other then BN is suicide? I surely hope not all Malaysian think a like because things like this hold the process of futher developing a nation.

The only reason i see a goverment not lead by BN would fail is Former Goverment people would try to make it harder since, if BN loose, it would mean years of records open to the public.

This is exactly how Indonesia, suharto and its rulling party GOLKAR did it.

If you choose to let what ever is happening because of lack of alternatives then shame on you.

Also since most of the things we know about the alternatives parties in Malaysia comes from the media which is ofcourse controled by the Goverment http://www2.recom.org:8000/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=140#1857

let's re-think it together i'm here all night.

[__earth]

d00d, when i say decide, obviously it means Pak Lah.

an assumption differs from a hypothetical situation. when you assume, it has to be supported. when you talk hypothetically, then only you could do what you did. also, an opinion has to be supported. you can't form an opinion out of the blue. it's an important step in logical reasoning.

and if you don't agree about the suicide thing, imagine pas, and try to relate that to iran. even DAP and keadilan try to stay away from pas.

[Thirdshifter]

Was editing the other post (hit post instead of preview)

On the asumption

as?sump?tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-smpshn)
n.

Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof; religion

[__earth]

i see that you consulted a dictionary.

well, i guess you're right. all of your arguments are assumptious in nature and thus, there is no need to support it. my mistake...

anyway, about the govt controlling the society with iron fist, i think PAS would do a better job at being a fascist by saying the Koran demands it.
Mousollini did that same thing in the name of nationalism.
and this is why i said the opposition is not an alternative to the current admin.
but if that is your alternative, shame on you back.

[Thirdshifter]

i see that you consulted a dictionary.

well, i guess you're right. all of your arguments are assumptions and so, there is no need to support it. my mistake...

anyway, about the govt controlling the society with iron fist, i think PAS would do a better job at being a fascist by saying the Koran demands it.
Mousollini did that same thing in the name of nationalism.
and this is why i said the opposition is not an alternative to the current admin.

Considering PAS is an Islam only Party i wouldn't embrace their ideas either. Also by arguing that i had also specifically made it obvious that the second most popular choice of Malaysian is actually worst then their first. Or is it?

Since writng something like for eg, Mahathir, kuku besi would only get more Malaysian Sitting in ISA why does accusing PAS leaders of fasicm which i likely would assume is not yet proven to be the truth. After all they do rule 14.28% of Malaysia.

on the other hand BN has evidently refuse legal advise to it's detainees. Locked up in ISA. Torture, Verbally and physically.

The constant threat to it's on citizens over the waves, if malaysia is no longer in their control..this and this would happen.

The whole history book from form 1 all the way to 5 deals with how great our leading party is. No mentioning of the struggles of the people to get the independance however.

Not to mention the easy access of all BN officials to give speech at schools meanwhile accusing schools out of their controls is preaching hate to the goverment..

We have to remember that BN is just a political party. Rulling Malaysia for the past 50 years don't necessarily implies that they are the best for us. It's time we start to be more critical and not just say BN is the lesser of two evils.

[masterof_none]

I respect all your opinions...in fact, it is good to learn mistakes from others.

But, if this discussion become a political discussion, we've got problem.
If we want to discuss about politics, nothing can be resolved and we end up wasting our energy.

Let's be real. Aristotle said, "man is by nature a political animal"

we're all humans. we're all politicans. if we make mistakes, politicans can make mistakes too. what we're trying to do at ReCom is to resolve our conflicts. not the other way around.

If we really want to improve something, we've got to do it.
we're smart enough to think the best way to resolve problem.

Let's set up the new way to resolve problems. Let's reborn.

[Thirdshifter]

I respect all your opinions...in fact, it is good to learn mistakes from others.

But, if this discussion become a political discussion, we've got problem.
If we want to discuss about politics, nothing can be resolved and we end up wasting our energy.

Let's be real. Aristotle said, "man is by nature a political animal"

we're all humans. we're all politicans. if we make mistakes, politicans can make mistakes too. what we're trying to do at ReCom is to resolve our conflicts. not the other way around.

If we really want to improve something, we've got to do it.
we're smart enough to think the best way to resolve problem.

Let's set up the new way to resolve problems. Let's reborn.

Totally agree, Being a comformist to everything the goverment do would not help.

All i'm trying to do here is to be unbiased as possible. We all know we have a problem so what do we choose to do?

[__earth]

Concerning PAS and fascism, I do not assume like you. All you need to see is their manifesto of Negara Islam - their mere words represent fascism. Iran, Saudi Arabia and all other countries with Islamic fundamentalists on the top, stand as living example of PAS? future.

And the best thing is, DAP and Keadilan team up with PAS despite Keadilan?s claimed that it fights for liberty. From history, I?m sure you'll agree that fascism and freedom do not mix together gracefully despite the fact that both words start with the latter F. The commonality between the opposition parties is only one - they hates BN?s guts to a level that they willing to embrace "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". That is Bismarck?s realpolitik in its worst form.
The alliance between DAP, Keadilan and PAS is like Che Guevara and Castro?s. Both claimed to fight for freedom but in the end, fascism looms everywhere.
If Keadilan were to disassociate themselves from PAS, I?d be more than happy to vote for Keadilan instead of BN. But until that happens, of which I doubt of happening soon, BN is still the better choice, or using your own words, the lesser evil.

However I agree with you about the current govt failure to practice the separation of the state from the party. Yet, proving the bee is dangerous doesn?t mean the crocodile is friendlier.

and to masterof_none, surely having a lively discussion is a better thing to do rather than listening to Britney Spears :p

All i'm trying to do here is to be unbiased as possible.

have you read 1984? I see the usage of newspeak in your quote.

Totally agree, Being a comformist to everything the goverment do would not help.

How could you agree to a thing that was not even mentioned? he said nothing about comformation.

[masterof_none]

and to masterof_none, surely having a lively discussion is a better thing to do rather than listening to Britney Spears :p
....

have you read 1984? I see the usage of newspeak in you qoute.


Britney? when do I say I listen to Britney?. I better listen to Siti.

Yep, I read it already, 1984.by George Orwell.
Good book

[__earth]

damn mario, you post too fast. i had to edit some "grammer" mistake =)

[masterof_none]

wait, did u ask thirdshifter?. or..

[__earth]

yup, i asked him =)
you certainly weren't the one that used newspeak.

[Thirdshifter]

<Politically-Speaking-Mode-On> Reasons DAP,PAS and Keadilan is associated is because they didn't want to run for the same office, Hence it would give BN a less majority of votes. </Politically-Speaking-Mode-Off>

I've had read their Manifest, i have to agree it's somethng only Hardcore Muslims would want. Thus the gaining popularity vote is concerned. Just like UMNO and their Defence without them Melayu won't be able to live etc.

We both know that these so-called manifesto is nothing more then a propaganda.

Ofcourse i'm not trying to say who's better or who's not.
What's iintriguing me is; What are we gonna do to change this? Just keep quiet and hope changes comes by itself? or spread the word to the masses and do something?

also i did not read that book. Let me just word it again..

I'm trying to be as fair as possible when criticizing the goverment or anybody.

[__earth]

We both know that these so-called manifesto is nothing more then a propaganda.

i do not follow your logic nor your intonation. So, you actually condon that? if you do, i'll certainly understand why you support the opposition.

Ofcourse i'm not trying to say who's better or who's not.
What's iintriguing me is; What are we gonna do to change this? Just keep quiet and hope changes comes by itself? or spread the word to the masses and do something?

most likely us, the younger generation. the current opposition is unrealible to achieve a free democratic society nor could the current govt could be given an A+. it is our job to, as to say, increase the sum of the averages

also i did not read that book. Let me just word it again..

I will not reword it. Orwell deserved to be read. however, i will give you two examples. one is during the iraqi war, Fox News used liberation is place of invasion. the second example of newspeak:

I'm trying to be as fair as possible when criticizing the goverment or anybody.

[chenchow]

why don't we look at issues... I think what we should be looking at is on particular issues. We may not completely agreeing with BN or opposition right?

So, why don't we look at particular issue. Say for this issue, I agree with BN because... or I agree with PAS on this issue because... In that way, we can look at particular issues and build on it constructively.

No party is perfect and no party is completely wrong. If all of us could throw away the political party alliance, and look constructively into a certain issue, that would be better. Although in a practical world, we may not be able to do just like that, but I think it would be better if we dissect the issues and build on it.

Say on an issue, this party would like to do this. Lets analyze why they want to do so. While there may be political reason, it would not be the only reason. So, lets integrate the positive reason that those many parties have come up and integrate those into a big picture and with that, we could build a better Malaysia...

Feel free to disagree with me... That was just my 2 cents.

[Schye]

If we want changes,
we need a new party or Barisan needs to change.
The policy of playing with the card of races, the policy of controlling mass media will only become a time bomb.

We won?t know ones potential if we never give them a try.
But of course we will choose the best candidate for it, right?



*edit: corrected some mistyped words.

[__earth]

agreed. =)

[qedx]

PM = Leader of BN = Pres UMNO , that's basically it right? The coalition "parties"like BN and Barisan alternatif and the like are pretty messed up. It just shows that no single party thinks they can garner enough votes to win the election. When you think about it that way (instead of "melambangkan perpaduan" and all that crap), it's pretty sad.

[masterof_none]

If we want changes,
we need a new party or Barisan needs to change.
The policy of playing with the card of races, the policy of controlling mass media will only become a time bomb.



OK, this forum is increasingly becoming a time bomb too.
before we close this forum. anymore thought/criticsm/comments?

[__earth]

i think the issue is pretty much done. =)

[Thirdshifter]

I will not reword it. Orwell deserved to be read. however, i will give you two examples. one is during the iraqi war, Fox News used liberation is place of invasion. the second example of newspeak....


Freedom fighter? Rebels? Gunmen? Extremist-(add any religion) I know what you mean. How about this? I will critisize whenever the goverment needs some.

Anyway when did i support the "opposition"? Opposition according to your higly respected philosopher/writer/theorist (orwell) must be newspeak as well.

If i had to vote today, i would absolutely vote for BN due to the lack of better alternative. If whatever i said is considered goverment bashing, so be it. Truth hurts. Lets face the reality, we all know BN is not good for Malaysias health and if they can't change we have too.

Live free or die.

[__earth]

you got the meaning of newspeak right but you used it wrongly.

and finally, the quote the end the argument:
If i had to vote today, i would absolutely vote for BN due to the lack of better alternative.
there you go. we have now reached a concensus - the lack of option. it has been a nice discussion.

anyway, it's amazing how we digressed from the topic.

Cheers.

[Thirdshifter]

Ignorance is bliss...

[littlebigone]

that's sad isn't it. Voting for one candidate because there are no better candidiates.

[Thirdshifter]

that's sad isn't it. Voting for one candidate because there are no better candidiates.

Because there is no candidate that has its potential exposed on a positive light on Malaysian Media.

Until that day comes, All of our alternatives leader would be known as the oppositions.

Opposition, what a negative word.

[__earth]

As expected, Najib has just been appointed as the new DPM.

[topdog]

Oh, thanks for the info.

I'm sure you people know this, but here it is again:

Tunku Abd Rahman
Tun Abdul Razak
Tun Hussein
Tun Mahathir
Dato Seri Abdullah

So, to form "RAHMAN", the next PM has got to be:
Datuk Seri Najib

Perhaps 60 years from now James Ng would be the next PM. :lol:

[dinna_g]

As expected, Najib has just been appointed as the new DPM.

earth, can you provide the link for the news.. i missed that one.. thanks

[__earth]

here u are.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/Frontpage/20040107075422/Article/