Trust <-> Betrayal

[ingshan]

If any of you have a story to share about this topic???

[SpRInG]

do u mean whether we have been trusted and betrayed? or have we trusted or betrayed anyone?

[pandaboy]

I think we can talk about both way here.....u have anything to share Spring?

I have an experience about this myself. About the scholarship applications. I remembered that during my Form 5, the moment I found out about the application for ASEAN scholarship..i spread the news to everyone in my class and school....and give a call to my classmates letting them know about this so that they can apply in time. This is because we told each other that if we have any news of any scholarship, we will let each other know. All of us applied together...and in the end...they got selected for the selection test and I was not. But after the SPM results were released, most of them applied for the JPA scholarship. Only me and some other friends who didnt know anything about JPA did not apply. When i confronted my friend who was the first one I called to let him know about the ASEAN scholarship...and I asked him whether he applied for the JPA or not. In fact, he did applied and I asked him why he never inform me about it? The answer he gave me was short and simple....he said he was rushing to apply and have no time to inform me. Come on....5 minutes is enough to just give me a call and let me know about it. I was frustrated. It was not only me. I have another best friend who also did not know about it. And both of us did not apply for the JPA. I was so frustrated. I know I was kinda dumb at that time cos I was too happy upon receiving my results and didnt know anything at all about JPA. But I know I was betrayed by this friend of mine. I think he doesnt want me to be his competitor in getting this scholarship. But what kind of thinking is this? He succeeded in eliminating me, but can he eliminate thousands of other smart students from the whole country? If he is capable, whether I'm in or not, he has nothing to worry about. In the end, he did not get the scholarship. I felt betrayed by him....until now. I cant believe he did this to me. So is my other best friend.

[chenchow]

pandaboy, I salute what you have done and it is a sad case that your friends are doing this to you. As you say, if he/she is qualified to get the scholarship, they will get the scholarship irrespective of whether your friends and you apply.

Thanks for sharing and pandaboy, believe in yourself, if there is a will, there is a way.

[ElansarGelmir]

Pity you, or else you might have been our senior (maybe...). However, dun have to regret about it liao lar. Hmm... Maybe you will get other better opportunities after you complete your A Levels? Dun look at the past, dude. Look ahead. At least now you know who's your real friend and who's not. But perhaps your that friend was REALLY in a rush until he forgotten to call you? Then you have misjudged him. Have you clarify things with him? Tell him how you feel... Dun just make your own assumption. Maybe you could be wrong.

About my case leh, I think (thinking hard) I have been betrayed before, but I think i've forgotten about it liao. I know i've been betrayed before, but forgotten by who or how. Not that I deliberately forget it, it's just that my nature of having short term memory. :wink: It's a good thing too. At least I won't spend the rest of my life lamenting about that tragedy. Hmm.... Ok, I'm trying very hard to remember what happened, but really can't make out the right picture. But I KNOW that I've been betrayed before. It's not just an imagination.

[pandaboy]

Thanks everyone. I guess I'm a bit naive last time. I've confronted him and asked him about that....he claimed that he got no time to let me know. But all I need was just a call to let me know about the scholarship and where can i get the scholarship form and i think that is all i need to know. But he didnt even....haih. Nway, i've been trying to forget this incident. Not to say that I'm very smart or very qualified for the JPA scholarship...but at least if I did tried to apply last time, i might be able to get it. How about the others? Any stories to share? Good for u ElansirGelmir, it's actually good to forget those stuffs.....

[ElansarGelmir]

Sigh. I dunno how to say, Pandaboy. I mean, i'm suffering from temporary memory loss - I might have even forget to tell you about the scholarship myself (unless i have your pic somewhere on my table, dunno for what :p). Hehe... Maybe your friend has the same "disease" as I have? Dunno ler. But short term memory could be a bane, coz it may frustrate someone who doesn't know that you are having it.

[pandaboy]

Wow, are u serious about it? Temporary memory loss? Studying too hard my friend? About the guy i talked about...I've been his friend for so many years and his house is just a few steps away from mine. And no sign of him having memory loss...i mean...he's not a forgetful person.

[ElansarGelmir]

Wow, are u serious about it? Temporary memory loss? Studying too hard my friend? About the guy i talked about...I've been his friend for so many years and his house is just a few steps away from mine. And no sign of him having memory loss...i mean...he's not a forgetful person.

It's not a disease lar... But just to show how forgetful I am, especially with names and roads... Haha, so if you see me trying to figure out your name, do forgive me.

[Ic3b3rg]

heehee...memory loss.... elansar dun forget us when we all go to US..

[pandaboy]

Probably u took up too much space for ur studies and memorising facts..hehe. Btw, ElansiGelmir, u r reaching the 1000posts mark. Cool...

Lets continue with this topic...so Ic3b3rg(wow..so hard to type ur name)....any stories to share?

[ElansarGelmir]

Probably u took up too much space for ur studies and memorising facts..hehe. Btw, ElansiGelmir, u r reaching the 1000posts mark. Cool...

Lets continue with this topic...so Ic3b3rg(wow..so hard to type ur name)....any stories to share?

Issit? Haha, that proves my verbosity here... Hehe, should really cut down my time in recom... hehe...

By the way, let me guess this straight, since when did i imply (or did the way i talk) give you the impression that I'm a mugger? Haha, dun make assumptions too quickly. If memorize jokes can ler (but that's not memorizing, it's called spontaneous recalling).

[pandaboy]

Issit? Haha, that proves my verbosity here... Hehe, should really cut down my time in recom... hehe...

By the way, let me guess this straight, since when did i imply (or did the way i talk) give you the impression that I'm a mugger? Haha, dun make assumptions too quickly. If memorize jokes can ler (but that's not memorizing, it's called spontaneous recalling).

I'm sorry....but wat is "mugger" ? I tried to look up in dictionary and here's wat I've got :

Main Entry: 1mug?ger
Pronunciation: 'm&-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi magar, from Sanskrit makara water monster
: a common usually harmless freshwater crocodile (Crocodylus palustris) of southeastern Asia

U r becoming a crocodile, ElansirGelmir? hehe...

[ElansarGelmir]

Issit? Haha, that proves my verbosity here... Hehe, should really cut down my time in recom... hehe...

By the way, let me guess this straight, since when did i imply (or did the way i talk) give you the impression that I'm a mugger? Haha, dun make assumptions too quickly. If memorize jokes can ler (but that's not memorizing, it's called spontaneous recalling).

I'm sorry....but wat is "mugger" ? I tried to look up in dictionary and here's wat I've got :

Main Entry: 1mug?ger
Pronunciation: 'm&-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Hindi magar, from Sanskrit makara water monster
: a common usually harmless freshwater crocodile (Crocodylus palustris) of southeastern Asia

U r becoming a crocodile, ElansirGelmir? hehe...

Heard of mugger toad? To mug, means to study. So basically, a mugger is a term coined for those who have nothing to do except burrying their nose into books...

[pandaboy]

Heard of mugger toad? To mug, means to study. So basically, a mugger is a term coined for those who have nothing to do except burrying their nose into books...

I've never heard of it. Why I cant find it in dictionary?

[ElansarGelmir]

LOL!!! Not every terms u can get it from the dict. What does another banana mean? The word mugger is from Singapore... So i believe...

[pandaboy]

Oooo.... u mean mugger is an informal word la...aiyo...so dumb la me.. Ya, banana la... That's me! No...i'm half banana. That is what my friend called me...

[ElansarGelmir]

Oooo.... u mean mugger is an informal word la...aiyo...so dumb la me.. Ya, banana la... That's me! No...i'm half banana. That is what my friend called me...

That's me too. Hey, we digressed liao... Let's talk about trust. Whom do you trust most in your life?

[pandaboy]

That's me too. Hey, we digressed liao... Let's talk about trust. Whom do you trust most in your life?

My parents. I know there's no one else that I can really trust other than them. But I trust ppl too easily....that's why i felt that I am very naive. Always kena tipu by friends.

[ElansarGelmir]

But I trust ppl too easily....that's why i felt that I am very naive. Always kena tipu by friends.

yalor ...... Me too what... Or maybe our friends didn't menghargai us as much as we do and expect them? Hmm... Dunno ler, that's why it's hard to find really good friends these days.... Parents of course must trust lar. If u dun trust them, who else u want to trust? Anyone besides parents?

[pandaboy]

One of my close friends told me before that.... "There is no such thing as true friend in this world". She claimed that every human in this world is selfish. How true is this? I still cant prove that she is wrong, as I myself cant find a true friend just yet.

[Ic3b3rg]

Lets continue with this topic...so Ic3b3rg(wow..so hard to type ur name)....any stories to share?

hehe...sorry.... didn't think tht it would be so difficult till i used it....
u can use iceberg if it makes it easier...

seriously, i can't remember any major betrayals.... so sad lar... i think i must have been betrayed before.... but cannot recall... hmm.....haha... thts the problem with me..... i can't recognize a betrayal even if i met with one... super BLUR.... and then when i realize.... i am already hurt a hundred times tht it doesn't make any difference anymore

One of my close friends told me before that.... "There is no such thing as true friend in this world". She claimed that every human in this world is selfish. How true is this? I still cant prove that she is wrong, as I myself cant find a true friend just yet.

wow... the world will be a sad sad place if tht is true.... every human is selfish... hmm... maybe it is our instinct to put self interests first.... but the beauty of true friendship is so sacred that i refuse to believe it is impossible.... call me Pigheaded...

[gal_flower]

discussions abt trust-betrayal...interesting!

i haf been betrayed...how many times? i don really noe coz i try not to count. small betrayals...big betrayals...maybe coz my memory aint tad good so i don really remember every single one of them...some i don think i want to share...

but somehow i never learn my lesson...most of the time, i trust everyone. everyone except those who HAF betrayed my trust...and those whom i observed shud not haf my trust...it's mighty silly considering the world we r living in...but tads me! no one actually noe tad but ya, i trust ppl easily. stupid, huh?!

i guess one of the normal betrayals are the ones tad haf ur secrets in them n u say 'hey, don tell anyone else plz k', esp it's UR dark secret,then the fren goes around blabbing it, or telling it to ONE person which is enuf a betrayal...

[pandaboy]

Yeah....sometimes we just forgot that we arent supposed to tell the secrets of our friends..... so the best way is talk less! haha...that is my thinking...i used to talk a lot last time in high school...and ended up hurting many ppl bcause i always said the wrong thing at the wrong time...

True friends....do u guys actually have a friend who can be categorised under this? I think so far....i only have one friend who can be considered as a very good friend of mine...but somehow we are separated now.

[chiunlin]

I can see that selective amnesia is quite prevalent here. Anyway, it's human nature to forget those sad memories.

True friends? How do you define a true friend? One who would die for you(士为知己者死, to die for the person who understands you)? One how is beyond doubt?

[aquila]

Pandaboy, didn't your teachers tell you about the JPA scholarship? It was definitely a big thing in my school, I think I got to know about it before form 5 even.

I think JPA should mass promote the scholarships they give away. just so that accidents like this don't happen. Anyways, there're always other scholarships you can apply to, even after a levels. For eg, the Japanese Monbushu (donno how to spell the name) scholarship and a few others. Just keep looking!

[pandaboy]

Pandaboy, didn't your teachers tell you about the JPA scholarship? It was definitely a big thing in my school, I think I got to know about it before form 5 even.

I think JPA should mass promote the scholarships they give away. just so that accidents like this don't happen. Anyways, there're always other scholarships you can apply to, even after a levels. For eg, the Japanese Monbushu (donno how to spell the name) scholarship and a few others. Just keep looking!

nopez...i know nothing about jpa at all during my secondary school years.... Yeah..now i keep my eyes open for other scholarships after a levels....but i need to do very well in my a-levels now...which i'm still struggling at...sigh. And exams just around the corner..gosh

[pandaboy]

I can see that selective amnesia is quite prevalent here. Anyway, it's human nature to forget those sad memories.

True friends? How do you define a true friend? One who would die for you(士为知己者死, to die for the person who understands you)? One how is beyond doubt?

The definition of a true friend is very subjective...but that doenst mean that the person has to die for u in order to be ur true friends. I think....true friends are friends who care for u as much as they care for themselves.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Betrayal and best/good friends...both subjects that mix with each other sometimes. Let me ask you guys a question regarding that.

Lets say you are in a hipothetically really, really desperate situation and are given only two choices, choice A and B. Choice A means sacrificing your life so your best friend could live and choice B means sacrificing your friend's life so you could live. Which choice would you make? Would you be selfish and in essence stab your friend in the back to ensure your own survival? Or would you take the opposite choice instead?

[pandaboy]

Betrayal and best/good friends...both subjects that mix with each other sometimes. Let me ask you guys a question regarding that.

Lets say you are in a hipothetically really, really desperate situation and are given only two choices, choice A and B. Choice A means sacrificing your life so your best friend could live and choice B means sacrificing your friend's life so you could live. Which choice would you make? Would you be selfish and in essence stab your friend in the back to ensure your own survival? Or would you take the opposite choice instead?

Wow....what kind of question is this? Very hard to answer...Would u like to answer first, USSDefiantNX74205?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Well this may sound less than ideal, but if given the choice I'm sure everyone would wanna save their own skins first, including me, unless the other person is extremely close to me or somethin, like my wife or kids...then I would sacrifice myself.

[chiunlin]

That's good question. But it's sort of like the mother and wife question.
My answer? One, I will never place myself in such a situation. Two, spending time thinking for such question won't make any difference in life .Three, you'll never know the real answer unless you are in that situation. Four, in case you are wondering, my answer will be that I won't even bother to think whether I'll save myself or my best friend, I rather spent time thinking how to save both of us. And even if there's a time limit to this and if I can't any way before the time is up, I will rather both of us die than to make a choice. I don't think I will ever walk out of the fact that I have let my best friend die and I think the same will apply to my best friend. Again, I stress that this might not be my response in a real situation.

[ElansarGelmir]

Pandaboy, didn't your teachers tell you about the JPA scholarship? It was definitely a big thing in my school, I think I got to know about it before form 5 even.

I think JPA should mass promote the scholarships they give away. just so that accidents like this don't happen. Anyways, there're always other scholarships you can apply to, even after a levels. For eg, the Japanese Monbushu (donno how to spell the name) scholarship and a few others. Just keep looking!

Hmm... My teachers said nothing about any scholarships. Some just don't care. Yeah, JPA should actually publish it in the newspaper about the scholarship and the procedures how to apply. It was really hectic for me to get the form, especially i don't really know anyone who had applied for the scholarship before. Got to ask this guy and that gal, and only I know how to apply.

[ElansarGelmir]

Betrayal and best/good friends...both subjects that mix with each other sometimes. Let me ask you guys a question regarding that.

Lets say you are in a hipothetically really, really desperate situation and are given only two choices, choice A and B. Choice A means sacrificing your life so your best friend could live and choice B means sacrificing your friend's life so you could live. Which choice would you make? Would you be selfish and in essence stab your friend in the back to ensure your own survival? Or would you take the opposite choice instead?

I really hope that I won't face this kind of situation in real life. In fact, I dun think i will come across this situation in life, seeing that it's a very low chance of me getting a best friend. hehe, however, if I'm still required to answer this question, i would want to know - does he really regard me as his best friend? Will he die for me too? And the most important factor - who's death will have a greater impact on the people around him/me?

[pandaboy]

Betrayal and best/good friends...both subjects that mix with each other sometimes. Let me ask you guys a question regarding that.

Lets say you are in a hipothetically really, really desperate situation and are given only two choices, choice A and B. Choice A means sacrificing your life so your best friend could live and choice B means sacrificing your friend's life so you could live. Which choice would you make? Would you be selfish and in essence stab your friend in the back to ensure your own survival? Or would you take the opposite choice instead?

If that person is really a very good friend of mine...i will try to save him even if that will risk my life. Cos I felt that if i just let him die doing nothing at all to help him....I will feel guilty for the rest of my life. But then again....if u saw someone in trouble (not ur friend)...will u risk ur life to save that person? For example....u saw a burning house and u know there is a baby inside....and u only have one option...only one option...that is to rush into the house and save the baby. Will u do so? If u ask me....I will. I know most of u will feel that i'm stupid...but I will try to save that poor kid.. at least if I do so, both of us have 50-50 chance to survive.

[DecentMerson]

i will consider....

if it is risky, but it is not impossible....then i will

if it is too risky....and it is impossible...like the fire is really tooo great....if i am to kill myself just to save the baby, or somebody else... i will not....

i will think of my love ones too....if i died risking my life, i will b guilty too...(my parents, my frens....)

[widagdo]

Pandaboy, didn't your teachers tell you about the JPA scholarship? It was definitely a big thing in my school, I think I got to know about it before form 5 even.

I think JPA should mass promote the scholarships they give away. just so that accidents like this don't happen. Anyways, there're always other scholarships you can apply to, even after a levels. For eg, the Japanese Monbushu (donno how to spell the name) scholarship and a few others. Just keep looking!

Hmm... My teachers said nothing about any scholarships. Some just don't care. Yeah, JPA should actually publish it in the newspaper about the scholarship and the procedures how to apply. It was really hectic for me to get the form, especially i don't really know anyone who had applied for the scholarship before. Got to ask this guy and that gal, and only I know how to apply.

JPA does post on major newspapers about its scholarship before and right after the SPM result is released. Of course, don't expect it to show up on Nanyang Siang Pow or Sin Chew.

[pandaboy]

i will consider....

if it is risky, but it is not impossible....then i will

if it is too risky....and it is impossible...like the fire is really tooo great....if i am to kill myself just to save the baby, or somebody else... i will not....

i will think of my love ones too....if i died risking my life, i will b guilty too...(my parents, my frens....)

yeah...its true.. I forgot to mention that in my post...hehe...
Obviously...if the fire is too great...than it's not considered as trying to save someone...but instead should be considered as trying to commit suicide..

[pandaboy]

JPA does post on major newspapers about its scholarship before and right after the SPM result is released. Of course, don't expect it to show up on Nanyang Siang Pow or Sin Chew.

Yeah...but dunno why I didnt came across it in the newspapers. Was it posted in the Recruitments and Appointments section? Cos I dont read that part.... I think i should consider myself as having bad luck...

[ElansarGelmir]

JPA does post on major newspapers about its scholarship before and right after the SPM result is released. Of course, don't expect it to show up on Nanyang Siang Pow or Sin Chew.

Yeah...but dunno why I didnt came across it in the newspapers. Was it posted in the Recruitments and Appointments section? Cos I dont read that part.... I think i should consider myself as having bad luck...


Yeah, how come i miss it in the Star?

[pandaboy]

Yeah, how come i miss it in the Star?


Same situation here ....but u r luckier than me...

[ElansarGelmir]

i will consider....

if it is risky, but it is not impossible....then i will

if it is too risky....and it is impossible...like the fire is really tooo great....if i am to kill myself just to save the baby, or somebody else... i will not....

i will think of my love ones too....if i died risking my life, i will b guilty too...(my parents, my frens....)

yeah...its true.. I forgot to mention that in my post...hehe...
Obviously...if the fire is too great...than it's not considered as trying to save someone...but instead should be considered as trying to commit suicide..

However, I believe that I would regret for the rest of my life knowing that if i could do something, but didn't do it, and that costed a life of an innocent.

[pandaboy]

However, I believe that I would regret for the rest of my life knowing that if i could do something, but didn't do it, and that costed a life of an innocent.

But if the fire is too great...there's nothing u can do wat... By the time the firemen arrive the house already burnt down...

[ElansarGelmir]

Haha... Life's always not fair. As much as i want to save the baby, i can't get into the building (coz i believe the policemen will hamper all my attempts to do so). All i can do is to hope and pray that the baby will remain safe... And be saved.

[Ic3b3rg]

if someone close to you betrayed you, would you forgive him?

if that person does not apologize, would you forgive him?

if you say you wouldn't, will it change your mind if i say that you will probably live a happier life if you forget about that betrayal?

[ElansarGelmir]

if someone close to you betrayed you, would you forgive him?

if that person does not apologize, would you forgive him?

if you say you wouldn't, will it change your mind if i say that you will probably live a happier life if you forget about that betrayal?

Q1. I will forgive, but it is the matter of time. However, as time ticks, my anger will subside exponentially. Hehe...

Q2. I think i will lar. But won't say it out nia.

Q3. U know me lar... Auto forget one. Even if i dun forgive someone, the next year, i will forgot that I'm not supposed to forgive someone :P

[Ic3b3rg]

elansar.... the next time i make you really angry.... i know that i should avoid you for at least a year...haha...

[ElansarGelmir]

elansar.... the next time i make you really angry.... i know that i should avoid you for at least a year...haha...

LOL... if i dun stop revealling myself here, ppl will start taking advantage of me liao... Hehe....

[SpRInG]

if someone close to you betrayed you, would you forgive him?

if that person does not apologize, would you forgive him?

if you say you wouldn't, will it change your mind if i say that you will probably live a happier life if you forget about that betrayal?

this is a very good question, but still, it's a kind of hypothetical question, which the answer here may not reflect the real life situation...

well, i haf something to say about this betrayal and trust thing...

[SpRInG]

okay, when we talk about betrayal, we are talking about something that has hurt us... that has caused us great pain, because of the misplace of trust... or maybe other reasons...

but the thing i want to say is, it is important, and for me, it is necessary, to forgive the person who has betrayed us..

referring back to the question, i would say, even the person did not apologize, it is important for us to forgive that person... you may think, why? For me, to forgive a person does not only set that person free, but it sets ourselves free as well.

when we forgive that person, we are telling ourselves, i wouldn't want to get revenge of what you've done to me... i just want to continue with my life, if possible, hoping that it wouldnt' happen anymore... however, this is life, things that has happened may happen again.... however, there is a great difference if we forgive someone, we feel better.... we have peace in our hearts....

imagine, if we hold grudges.... each time we see that person, we would be reminded of the wound that has been caused. With forgiveness, it's just like the medicine to cure it... however, i'm not talking about forgetting that event... it's not possible for us to totally forget about what the betrayer has done.... but forgiveness is about setting ourselves free... to live a happier life....

hmm.... i hope you all understand what i'm talking about... any questions?

[SpRInG]

just a little something to add on...

We need to forgive and to be forgiven every day. Yet why don?t we forgive readily? Because before we forgive we want to hear from the other person that we were right after all. Then we want to hear apology after apology. We also want to hear excuses as to why he has said or done such a thing to us. Finally, we want to be praised for being a forgiving person. For these very reasons we are reluctant to ask for forgiveness from others for fear that such demands will be asked from us..

To forgive means that i choose:

not to harden my heart
not to harbor grudges
not to hold resentment
not to get even
not to be bitter
not to wish him/her harm
not to remember the hurt
not to plot revenge
not to hit back
not to record the wrong
not to be mean
not to be vindictive
to pardon, and
to love

[widagdo]

I suddenly remember one saying - forgive but not forget.

Would you forget some great pain someone caused on you even if you already forgave him or her?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

not to harden my heart
not to harbor grudges
not to hold resentment
not to get even
not to be bitter
not to wish him/her harm
not to remember the hurt
not to plot revenge
not to hit back
not to record the wrong
not to be mean
not to be vindictive
to pardon, and
to love

I received this in my email sometime ago. Not sure who the sender is or how he got my email tho.

Just to show you that things may sometimes not seem as ideal as people would like to think, however, I ask a question. Have anyone of you ever experienced being tormented by your schoolmates for years on end? I have. From Form 1 to Form 5, I was bullied verbally and sometimes physically by seniors who hated my elder bro. I did what everyone told me to do and ignored them, but this was perceived by them as me being weak, and hence they doubled their 'efforts' against me, hurling abuses at every opportunity, spreading bad stuff about me and such. So much bad stuff in fact, that I was probably the most understood guy in my F5 years. People would assume that I'm a bad guy for no reason without really knowing who I am. But what was my crime? Nothing. I never did anything to offend these people and I certainly don't know them before I even entered Form 1. Even now, I sometimes receive abuse from these people online through friendster and other services.

So tell me. How do I forgive them? How do you forgive people who have wrecked what was supposed to be your best years in your life? How do you forgive people who have given you pain and injustice for five whole years? How do you forgive people who have virtually destroyed your future by giving you depression, cause your studies to drop, etc.? Someone tell me.

Where are these people now? One is in the US studying. The rest are all in college, safe, happy and need not have to weather the STPMs that they have effectively condemned me to. So how do I forgive? Forgive me for ranting, but those who know me should know about my less than positive outlook in life. Instead of always expecting the best in an endeavour, I always want to know the worst case scenario first. I can't help it. After all they've done to me, I really can't help it. If you were subjected to the same thing for five years, you would end up with the same mindset as me. Not a day goes by without me thinking or plotting for their downfall or destruction in some future scenario. I may sound demented, but I can't help sounding demented. I can't help it. I really can't help it. So tell me: how do I forgive?

[qedx]

forgiveness? wtf is that? i may forget but i dont forgive

[pandaboy]

If we forgive ppl easily....they wont feel regret of their wrongdoings... and chances are they might repeat the same thing...

i will only forgive those who really regretted what they have done to me and promise not to repeat that anymore..... I think this is the best way for him/her and me... A good lesson to him/her.. and me being a good friend trying to correct what he has done wrong..

[widagdo]

forgiveness? wtf is that? i may forget but i dont forgive

Qedx, this is soooooooooo cool.

I believe that the pain can be cured by time. Not many of us are that forgiveful, but to be kind to ourselves, we must at least forget the betrayal as soon as possible.

[jiinjoo]

yeah, if you can't forgive, learn to forget. like me, can't remember what i ate for breakfast - therefore harbor no bad feelings. :)

Alternatively, you can transcend human nature and see the truth. Either get out of the matrix or meditate like a buddha will help.

qedx, will you forgive me........................... hehehe

[qedx]

yah much easier and less stressful than planning vengeance and stuff. theres totally nothing wrong with a spontaneous fist in the face when you meet a guy that pissed you off before

[ingshan]

wooo....i started topic bcause i myself have been disappointed by a "close friend".....this guy betrayed me for his own advantages.....bah it disgusted me.....and he didn't even apologize.....

:evil:

but as a buddhist....i'm taught not to be angry....whenever u r angry just wish yourself to be well and happy, and wish him to be well and happy too......

will u do so....i did it but i still feel uneasy deep inside.....hehe maybe my technique is wrong....

wow....hail this topic.....hail to the one who reply this topic!!!!!!WOOOO

[Thirdshifter]

Serenity now!!! Seinfield anyone?

[ElansarGelmir]

So tell me. How do I forgive them? How do you forgive people who have wrecked what was supposed to be your best years in your life? How do you forgive people who have given you pain and injustice for five whole years? How do you forgive people who have virtually destroyed your future by giving you depression, cause your studies to drop, etc.? Someone tell me.

Where are these people now? One is in the US studying. The rest are all in college, safe, happy and need not have to weather the STPMs that they have effectively condemned me to. So how do I forgive? Forgive me for ranting, but those who know me should know about my less than positive outlook in life. Instead of always expecting the best in an endeavour, I always want to know the worst case scenario first. I can't help it. After all they've done to me, I really can't help it. If you were subjected to the same thing for five years, you would end up with the same mindset as me. Not a day goes by without me thinking or plotting for their downfall or destruction in some future scenario. I may sound demented, but I can't help sounding demented. I can't help it. I really can't help it. So tell me: how do I forgive?

Hmm... I can't say much here coz I dunno how much you've gone through, and I dunno what's going on actually. However, you don't need to forgive now; forgive them when they are ready to be forgiven. If they ask for it. If they realize their mistake and apologize from you. However, that doesn't mean that you should plot on vengence on them. What's the use then? If that pleases you, I think fine lor. But think again. Is that really you - going for revenge? Praying for one's downfall and destruction? Ask yourself? Have they succeeded in bringing a monster out of you? I can feel it's hard for you to go through the torment for more than 5 years. Hell, I think I would have hit them I back if I were you. And end up regretting it for the rest of my life. So, you have my kudos for tolerating all their sneers and abuses :)

I'm not in the position to tell you what to do. But if you need help and pillar of strength, good friends are the ones that you can count on. And you can find them here too :)

[Ic3b3rg]

If we forgive ppl easily....they wont feel regret of their wrongdoings... and chances are they might repeat the same thing...

Perhaps you cannot stop them from repeating the same thing.... perhaps you cannot make them repent when you forgive them too easily.... but at least you do not keep the hatred and anger in you.... they have betrayed you and hurt you... why should you hurt yourself further by harboring resentment towards them?

words are cheap , i know... and i also know that it takes very much effort to truly forgive someone..... but once you forgive him... you will feel so free... because his actions no longer control your feelings or moods..

so.... if you feel that that person may take advantage of you because you forgive him.... then forgive him... do not hate him... but also remember to protect yourself ..... remember the incident not to take revenge but as a reminder for yourself so that you are not so easily betrayed anymore...

a wise person once said
love your enemies as much as you love your friends.....
but do not be hurt by either ones...

[chenchow]

USSDefiantNX74205, hopefully that you will be able to have a pretty good life right now. I know that everything is tough, but I think after you have gone through the tough part, you will learn a lot and that will help you being a tough guy in the future.

I support what you have done and I think you should react positively to it. Your friends may want to see you fail in your life. But I believe you can do well. Being in F6, doing STPM, is not a hell life. It is tough, no doubt, but if you can go through it, you will be successful. If you face any difficulty, post it up here or message any one of us here in ReCom~! We are ever ready to support you~! We believe in helping and sharing with one another. So, there is still lights in mankind, kay? A friend in need is a friend indeed.

[widagdo]

a wise person once said
love your enemies as much as you love your friends.....
but do not be hurt by either ones...

That is from the poem "If", isn't it?

[Ic3b3rg]

really?.... erm.. cannot remember... i thought it was from a religious person... but i dare not put tht person's name for fear of misquoting...

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Thanks for the words of encouragement, guys. Hope you all don't think I'm sulking or something here. A lot of people tend to think I'm trying to illicit sympathy when I tell them all this. And I also thought that I might wanna tell ya all that no matter how ideal this forgiveness stuff may sound, there are people in situations that are hard for them to forgive. Not trying to dampen your enthusiasm here, but there are people in worse situations than me I'm sure. And for them, I'm sure as well, that forgiveness is something that's not in their vocabulary anymore.

[pandaboy]

If we forgive ppl easily....they wont feel regret of their wrongdoings... and chances are they might repeat the same thing...

Perhaps you cannot stop them from repeating the same thing.... perhaps you cannot make them repent when you forgive them too easily.... but at least you do not keep the hatred and anger in you.... they have betrayed you and hurt you... why should you hurt yourself further by harboring resentment towards them?

words are cheap , i know... and i also know that it takes very much effort to truly forgive someone..... but once you forgive him... you will feel so free... because his actions no longer control your feelings or moods..

so.... if you feel that that person may take advantage of you because you forgive him.... then forgive him... do not hate him... but also remember to protect yourself ..... remember the incident not to take revenge but as a reminder for yourself so that you are not so easily betrayed anymore...

a wise person once said
love your enemies as much as you love your friends.....
but do not be hurt by either ones...

I dun have any open enemies at the moment....(not that i can think of...hehe...) ....And if someone did something wrong to me, i wont hate them. Just that...i wont forgive them easily. If they apologize to me...i will only forgive them if they are sincere...and tried to apologize a few times... If i forgive them easily, they will forget what they have done and repeat the same thing...and apologize...and the cycle continues. In this way, they'll never learnt. Dont get me wrong also la...i dont hate ppl... I'm always trying to be happy now, no point waste my energy to hate or angry of someone.. ^_^

To USSDefiantNX74205 (wow....so long and difficult to type name..hehe)... dont think too much of it already ok? And do remember that we are ur friends here and we will always be here for u, right everyone? ^_*

[Ic3b3rg]

To USSDefiantNX74205 (wow....so long and difficult to type name..hehe)...

haha... pandaboy.. next time just copy and paste lar... :oops: sorry out of topic....

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Aiyo....once again now. Y'all can call me USS, Defiant, USSDefiant, or anything you please. I don't really mind! Maybe I should start a whole new thread on this..."What to call USSDefiantNX74205". Okay, digressing from topic again. Who wants to slap me this time?

[pandaboy]

To USSDefiantNX74205 (wow....so long and difficult to type name..hehe)...

haha... pandaboy.. next time just copy and paste lar... :oops: sorry out of topic....

Ok ok......cos using touchpad....lazy to copy and paste...haha...

USSDefiantNX74205, why would anyone want to slap u?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Cos I'm digressing from the topic...haha

[pandaboy]

Cos I'm digressing from the topic...haha

Ooo....haha.. I thought something else. If so, I will be slapped thousands of times already..haha....

[Moozy]

If anyone wants to read about betrayal, try watching "The First Emperor",or some called it "The Emperor and the Assassin". or watch any movies about Chinese history. Those emperors, conquerors really shocked me with their inhumane acts. They could kill their followers even if the follower saved they lives before!!! For example, Qing Shi Huang Di, Xiang Yu... basically, war is often caused by betrayal, breaching the promises and so on.

Sorry, here to promote Chinese History again. Sorry arr.

About real life betrayal, I think I haven't encountered such unluckiness. Just little little ones I guess. You know, life before secondary is very pure. Friendships you have before you leave F5 will probably stand a bigger chance of lasting a life time. After that, it's kind of hard to find a really good friend/confidant who'll understand you. USSDefiant, sorry to hear that people threated you like that during your secondary school years, hope you'll lead a "friend-ful" and happy life now! :D

[ElansarGelmir]

If you guys wanna see the real thing about betrayal, I believe you guys should follow the Survivors series. It's all about outwitting, and on top of the list, betraying your friends who trusted you. Just don't want to mention their names here (coz you'll know if you follow the thing).

love your enemies as much as you love your friends.....
but do not be hurt by either ones...

How to prevent ourselves from being hurt by our very own friends? I dunno. Even now, I'm still searching for the answer coz I'm constantly backstabbed from the front (gosh, is there such thing? it's like your friend attacked you terang-terang)... Sigh... Life's really miserable :(

[Ic3b3rg]

How to prevent ourselves from being hurt by our very own friends?

sorry, i did not make it clear enough... i think you can avoid being hurt by your own friends means you can trust your friends.. but have the presence of mind and the strength to move on if they betray you.... you can help friends in trouble but not do anything against your principles or undermine yourself just to please them.... you know to differentiate between doing something for friendship and being "used " by people....

[ElansarGelmir]

Ermm... What if they stab you then talk to you like nothing of such happened (though they know what they are doing) and then stab you again and go back to normal mode and the cycle repeats itself again and again? Hmm... What to do arr? a little bit "fan" lar...

[pandaboy]

ElansirGelmir...wat do u mean by ur friends stabbing u? What they actually did to u? Maybe u should be honest to them and tell them that u r not comfortable with the way they are treating u? The way u put it seemed like they didnt know they are hurting ur feelings...

[SpRInG]

stabbing here and there... i guess this is the result of the 'free-world' idea that seemingly everyone voted for... where there is no right and wrong.... what i'm trying to say is that, well, stabbing here and there, is very normal in this world, especially in the society today.... i think it is more important to protect ourselves rather than doing something to go against it.

[ElansarGelmir]

Hmm... For certain society, I think so lor. It's good to be on defensive mode; however i dun think that will alleviate the situation kua... Maybe it will just resort to a fight? Who knows?

The way u put it seemed like they didnt know they are hurting ur feelings...

Dunno... I hope they don't. If otherwise, then it's sad to know that they deliberately do it.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Maybe you should display your more 'tougher' side to your friends, Elansar (don't mind if I call you that?). I mean, show them that you're more cunning, devious and not as straight as they think you are. I try do that to my friends, and so far none of them has stabbed me in the back before. It's not because they don't want to, but they are afraid of the consequences, like what I'll do to them in return. Show a bit of that evil guy in you...

[ElansarGelmir]

LOL. Maybe they know that I won't do that ler. Anyway, vengence does not go along with me. Well, I dun think we can have 100% friends and 0% enemies, rite? It's hard to maintain it that way. Sometimes you dunno why someone despises you that much.

Elansar (don't mind if I call you that?).

Sure. By the way, why the long nick?USSDefiantNX74205

[USSDefiantNX74205]

I'm not saying that you should be vengeful. I mean...just act a bit evil... :evil:

As for the nick, its the name of a ship from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. It's called the USS Defiant and its ship number is NX-74205.

[ElansarGelmir]

I'm not saying that you should be vengeful. I mean...just act a bit evil... :evil:

As for the nick, its the name of a ship from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. It's called the USS Defiant and its ship number is NX-74205.

Cool, but i think it would be kinda 'ma fan' to type those down when u wanna log in.

Hmmm... can give a few tips how to be evil arr?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Haha...maybe. But I love that ship!

As for being evil...I dunno. Just act evil. The main aim is to let them know that you won't be pushed around.

[SpRInG]

Haha...maybe. But I love that ship!

As for being evil...I dunno. Just act evil. The main aim is to let them know that you won't be pushed around.

hehe, do you really think that by acting evil, you won't be pushed around? are you serious or joking?

[ElansarGelmir]

Hmm... Dunno. Works for certain people. But i think I will still pretend to act blur lor. That's the best way kua.

[Moozy]

Hmmm... can give a few tips how to be evil arr?

I know! Just glare and glare at them. ElansarGelmir, maybe u're too soft when people buli u. Or maybe they didn't even know u're hurt. So, show it! ^_^

[budakkerek]

hmm..i hv a story to be shared..actually, got a lot hehe..but like Elansar..i kinda tend to forget, esp unpleasant stuff, easily...but this one, really unpleasant..so it kinda sticks to my mind.

After SPM, me n like 2 other friends, we plan to hv our own group shirt..i asked around but kinda hard to get a shop that's willing to take such small amount, 3 shirts only. but since i got a friend, who works doing such stuff, i told em i'd get it ready. My 'friend' agreed la...and he said can get it ready before results are out..so oke..jln laa...

Anyway, first..it seemed oke..then, my 'friend' ni, he asked for money upfront..saying he had to get some stuff as he's doing it as a favour, if his boss knows he sure kn marah one..crap like that laa..Anyway, we paid..like half..then after some time, he asked for some more...in the end, we've paid, full..but no shirt..And the due date was getting nearer and nearer. I was freaking out...

KNow what? That fella, when i went back to the shop, the boss said, he's no longer working there, plus anything he owes, the shop's not repsponsible. I was like really mad. Coz i felt so betrayed and so embarassed.

I felt so bad when my friends asked bout the shirt, and the money that the guy took. i had to pay em back w ma own money (which pissed me even more). I called his house, and got scolded by his mom for trusting him. I was like WTF?! i mean, how could she say that? she should be ashamed, having a son like dat.

know what? last year, i met him accidentally in one of the creative arts shops in CM...i felt like smashing his face..but me n my friend, we went by the stall, one more time...and lingered there for a while. That dog didnt even lift his face when we were there...Coward.

Bcoz of that, i'm more wary of ppl now, especialy when it involves money..im still the same bubbly me, but more wary now..

Hm...there..me sad story...i dunno bout you guys, but i felt so betrayed. Like he made me look bad in front of my other friends...and he's supposed to my friend...

So, anyone wants to go and kick this guy's ass for me? lemme know..i'll belanja those who're willing to...hahah...

[ElansarGelmir]

Hmmm.... Well, luckily i've got a few minor lessons from this kind of experience, that's why i dun really like to volunteer to be a leader of some kind of event, especially if it involves money. budak kerrek, really pity u lor... but that doesn't mean that u shouldn't trust people less. Just don't overtrust, especially in monetary matters. Whoa, if my mum finds out, whole day sure kena lecture one.

I don't think i can blame everything on your friend, since his mom is also tidak apa with his irresponsible attitude. That's why he grew up to be like that. If i were him (something that i won't do at all), when my mom finds out, I think i would be 99% dead liao... But if i were you ler, I would have scolded his mom back (hey, serious, since she's so nonchalant about this matter and put the blame back on you instead. That's a real irresponsible mother. Forget the generation thingy. To me, if you're wrong, i dun care who you are. just bombard lar).

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Uh, does being stabbed in the back and used by your school count as being betrayed?

[ElansarGelmir]

Hmm... Why? Your school used you as a spy? Haha... I think everyone's used by their schools. Who doesn't?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

I mean, really USED. Like, ask u to do all sorta things but the rewards go to other people. Happens to me all the time.

[ElansarGelmir]

I mean, really USED. Like, ask u to do all sorta things but the rewards go to other people. Happens to me all the time.

same ler... Got used up, and got used to it liao... Hehe... Especially if u're in the prefect's board. What's your story, USSdefiant?

[budakkerek]

hehe...i DID mrh the makcik back.

I was like, "Makcik, anak makcik yang salah. dia dah ambik duit saya, bukan saya yang ambik duit dia. Makcik tak malu ke, anak makcik macam tuh? patut laa jadi mcm tu, mak ayah xreti ajar anak."

the mom was like, "eh..awak cakap elok elok sket dgn orang tua.."

then i cut her," mintak maaf laa..masalahnye, bukan saya yang salah, anak mak cik. yang mak cik nak marah saya nih kenapa plak? hah, makcik pesan je dgn anak makcik tu, nanti kat akhirat saya tuntut balik duit yg dia dh mkn tu. makcik xbagi dia mkn ke, yang dia nak kn makan duit org lain tuh?"

then i just hung up the phone...tension tull..org tua menyampah...grr..grr.. :x

Now i;m more careful w money. at least, even if i'm broke, it's coz i spend it on other stuff, not bg to other ppl...heheh..

Hmm..you guys are talking bout Star Trek ke?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Star Trek? Takde la...kenapa? U fan Star trek ke Kerek?

[budakkerek]

haha..sorry, i was thinking bout sthing else..LOL
no le..i xske star trek..xminat sc fics including Star Wars..LOL...sowi! :wink:

[ElansarGelmir]

lar tu, marah ler betul-betul.... Ni macam separoh marah separoh berlembut aje... macam tak sungguh-sungguh pun... patutler mak dia ingat kamu cuba baling problem u kat anak dia. no wonder ler... Kalau kamu tengkik dia betul-betul, barulah dia pay attention dia kat u ni... Hehe... Tak pe ler. Biar ini jadikan pengajaran dan pedoman hidup anda... LOL!

[budakkerek]

haha..mmg laa..at first, ckp nicely...skali when the mom mrh me plak..of course laa i bengang...

heh, dont worry laa..now i'd rather habiskan my money on myself, mkn or buy new reeboks hehe..drpd bg org pinjam..hihihi

[ElansarGelmir]

Who do you guys trust right now (besides your family)? I think I've a very close friend whom I can count on to keep my secrets (though i dun tell him everything ler).

[pandaboy]

Who do you guys trust right now (besides your family)? I think I've a very close friend whom I can count on to keep my secrets (though i dun tell him everything ler).

i trust my friends, but i wont tell anyone everything about my secrets. my closest friend at the moment didnt know much about my secrets. cant really trust ppl at the moment...i realised how terrible this world is...

[ElansarGelmir]

i realised how terrible this world is...

Wah, you made this world seems like it's really corrupted and there's no more hope for mankind. Hmmm.... Wish you luck in finding a friend whom you can really count on. :wink:

[pandaboy]

i realised how terrible this world is...

Wah, you made this world seems like it's really corrupted and there's no more hope for mankind. Hmmm.... Wish you luck in finding a friend whom you can really count on. :wink:

every man is self-centred in nature. Tell me, how often do u think for ur friends rather than for urself? I was so naive to trust my friends and treat them so nice and in the end all i got were betrayals. As for now, I really cant stand the kiasuism in my friends. And how self-centred they are...as my finals approaches. At this time, I realised that they are only thinking of getting strings of A's for themselves and hoping all other friends will fail in doing so. Terrible world it is.

[USSDefiantNX74205]

The same scenario exists everywhere I guess. Too much competition turns people into monsters...

[budakkerek]

in terms of having friends to share secrets, i hv like different friends for different secrets.

If i wanna talk bout guys that i like * hihi * i'd tell this to one guy friend of mine (which is better than telling a gurl, coz i dunno, dont wanna risk her trying to get him for herself)..

if i hv probs w a gurlfriend, i'd talk to another close friend. like diff ppl, diff probs laa..like dat lor..and the list goes on and on and on..

i think it's kinda easier..coz stimes, i'm kinda absent-minded *Trish can vouch for dat hihi*and this system of mine, makes me appreciate my friends more..coz i need them to keep me sane! :)

[ElansarGelmir]

Haha, budak kerek, how can you expect your that guy friend to give you advice on how to court that guy then?

[ElansarGelmir]

every man is self-centred in nature. Tell me, how often do u think for ur friends rather than for urself?

Uhm... then maybe you don't know me?

[budakkerek]

i think, it's better if i ask guys how to court a guy..like my guy friends'd come to me and tanya," camne aa...this gurl's like this n this.." and i'm like..oho..you try laa..do like dis..like dis..then if that doesnt work..i'd bring the prob to my other gurl friends..and aask them on behalf of my guy friends..hihihi....networking yg bagus!

[ElansarGelmir]

Maybe women understand women... But i doubt a man cares what the other man likes or dislikes. That's what i perceived.

[budakkerek]

yeah...but i always like ask my guy friends, like if you were in this position, what would you do etc? i mean, get opinions from diff ppl bout same situations, so in the end, you get a variety of ways of doing things. it kindas helps me understand my guy friends better too :)

[ElansarGelmir]

Btw, where are you now, Budak kerek? Japan or US?

[budakkerek]

heheh...surprise, surprise! :D i'm like in Msia? hehe..yeah..check out my tpt laa uncle..i'm in Lembah Pantai, going off Queensland, Auzzie if xde prob next year.

Why did you say i'm in Japan? i'm not even in the States, though i'd like to hihihi...

[ElansarGelmir]

Hehee... sorry ler... you sound like you're at everywhere. :P

[budakkerek]

haha...what can i say? i'm a nation! LOL ^_^