Choices of University / Country for medicine

[SHuLy]

you know the list of universities which offer the medicine course. you have gathered the rankings as well as other information about the university.
but, you only have to shortlist it down to 4 universities to apply for in UCAS.
the problem looms, how to strategise your application?how do u actually shortlist them? any advice or tips?

[aquila]

It depends on where you are going. If you're thinking about US, go to www.usnews.com Check on medical listings.

[The_Observer]

I'll be frank with you. Don't deceive yourself about places like Ukraine, etc. BTW, Moscow Uni is the only place in Russia to go for medical training.
It matters a lot where you are going to for your medical training. Reputation counts a lot and so does the uni's achievements in research or teaching.
Get out of Malaysia at all costs!!!

[phyxsius]

this is what i think....i think actually it doesn't really matter where u study medicine...no matter whether u are in ireland or any other places that are considered by certain people as prestigious places to study medicine.as a medical student in ukraine,i really think that this place is quite ok...actually what is important in a future doctors' life is what he or she does or learns in housemanship.that's the most crucial time.from what i see doctors here and lecturers here are really skillful.just that the technolgy..they are a little bit behind but their skills are really "klaccna"!

[SHuLy]

it is true that the most important aspect of medicine is through practise during the housemanship years, but then again, before looking too far ahead, i think the foundation years are crucial as well. not to see how skillful one is as a doctor, but the development of the individual in terms of attitude and aptitude. to experience the life as a medical student is equally important too. (to me, that is). but as others said here, it is how you accomodate to that surrounding and be flexible towards what you have. i posted the questions just to obtain more information since some of you out there might have some advice or tips..

the environment of tertiery studies will influence a lot. just like every other phase of life. it makes a grow a little more, physically, mentally and socially. thenceforth, developing one's personality, hopefully, apt for the medical 'world'.


btw, i'm planning to do medicine in UK, under JPA.

[babygirl]

hi
i'm new here
i got jpa scholarship for medicine in russia
they offer 6 universities :
- Moscow State Medical Academy
- Russian State Medical University
- Volgograd State Medical Academy
- Nizhny Novgorod State Medical Academy
- Kursk State Medical University
- Crimea State Medical University
i know i'm not the one to choose which one to enter, but i hope to get more infomation of these 6 universities.

[chenchow]

babygirl, contact phyxsius, she is there.

[Steppe]

Hi,

I am interested to find out especially under JPA scholarship for medicine whether there are any particular preferred /'selected'/ 'listed' U designated for JPA scholars application in the following countries:
1. Russia
2. India
3. UK
4. Australia

Does anybody have the information of how many JPA scholars are there in India? In which U? Any website URL? Is the course a 5 years course? How is the living cost? Is it cheap or expensive? How do you apply, direct application to the particular U?

Is the medical course conducted in English in Russia? How are the facilities? Any problem with learning the Russian language? For the clinical part, any problem with dealing/understanding the Russian patients?

What about Taiwan U? Which are the Malaysian recognised U? Any URL?

As for Tasmania U, is the medical degree recognised by Malaysian gov't?

Regarding the UK application, please share the interview experience. What are the questions asked? Any advice, tip etc.?
Please advise on writing the personal statement. How do you go around doing voluntary work? Does the Kolej arrange for you?

[chenchow]

This is the latest list that I can find on courses recognized by Government of Malaysia.
http://www.eghrmis.gov.my/indeks.asp?url=iktiraf

[The_Observer]

Well...good on you guys!

I find that shuly does know her stuff. Good on ya again! Don't hesitate to ask anything off me..

For Steppe (your name suggests Ukraine a lot),

Medical degrees in India goes for the usual 5 yrs. Living costs, terribly...cheap. Applications-wise, I dun know much.

For the Russian uni.s, usage of English is rather limited. Whether you can learn Russian and Cyrillic depends on how good you are at learning a whole new language! If you don't learn the language well, you WILL be missing out a lot during your clinical years.

I am no UK med-head. BTW, why the hell do you want to apply to Tassie (Tasmania) Uni. for?

[Steppe]

Hehehe......, The_Observer, what do you mean that my name Steppe suggests UkRAINE a lot? Does it sound Russian?

Well, I am one of the unfortunate straight 10 A1s 2003 SPM students who did not get the JPA scholarship. I have sent in my appeal but I suppose the chance may be slim.

I am not sure what is my next step......

I have gone into Web to look at UK, Australia Uni and local IMU, PMC twinning and the fees are exhorbitant.

As for Tasmania U, fees are about 25% cheaper than other Australian Unis. However, the recognition of the medical degree is questionable?

I have not much idea about medical course in Russia and India. I think these are cheaper but the costs may be just as much as IMU (local option). I was hoping to get some information of which recognised Uni from Recomers here since quite a number of the JPA scholars are doing medicine in Russia and India.

As for Taiwan U, I have a cousin who graduated 3 years ago and is required to do 2 years of housemanship here in Malaysia so as to be qualified/recognised, 1 extra year of housemanship. All in all, she spent about RM 100,000 for the 5 years of study.

Well, I suppose Taiwan may be an option since we have studied Chinese, may be a better start-off point than Russian?. A levels is recognised as an entry qualifications.

At this stage, I am not too sure what step to take. I may have to give up this ambition and go for other twinning courses.......I have yet to explore which one.

Sorry to sound down and $$$ but if you cannot get any scholarship, then you have to scout around, consider possible options, etc. etc.......

[chenchow]

Check the list of recognized university at the link given earlier by me (3 posts earlier).

Tasmania University is recognized, it is at page 354 of that link. Check it out.

It is very essential to check out on whether your course is recognized, before you enrol.

[chenchow]

This is an article in The Star today on Russian universities for medicine.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/6/14/nation/8206613&sec=nation

[The_Observer]

You do know that the steppes means 'grassy plains'...and Ukraine is full of steppes. Forgive me, I just found it amusing... :D

I can understand your condition...been through it before (I got 11 A1s and still got nothing....) but I guess I thank God I did not get the JPA thing because I love it here in Melbourne...something I guess I wouldn't get if I did get any JPA.

I do agree that fees in UK and Aust. are steep, and its going to become worse and worse in years to come. I wouldn't worry too much about Tassie Uni if I were you. In my opinion, going to Tassie is still better than going to Ukraine or India.
Reasons:

1. Australian Uni.s have a better reputation, not only back home in Malaysia. And trust me, if ppl have a choice...they would pick a UK or Aussie grad.

2. Should you choose not to return to M'sia, being trained in a local Aussie university will help your job prospects and getting a PR.

3. I am in Melbourne. If you want to see me, its just a 2 hour ferry ride across Port Phillip Bay! :D

But of course, you have IMU and the Taiwan uni.s...
I don't have much to say about them...they're ok by my me. I know plenty of Taiwan medic grads (friends of my father's), they happen to be nice ppl too!

NB:Don't give up if you have a passion for doing medicine! \(^^)/

PS: Looks like the Russkis are exploiting our problems. Refer to chenchow's post before mine.
<cough,cough...bullshit...cough,cough>

[Steppe]

The_Observer, thank you very much for your advice. Which year are you in now?

I begin to feel better....more consoled.

I would like to know more about Melbourne and Monash Uni from you. I gathered from my mother's friend that the JPA sent about 30 medical students to Monash Uni in the last batch. Does anybody know whether this is true? I find it hard to believe for 30 medical students, perhaps a combination of medical, engineering, etc . students?

Actually, my mother has recorded the medical course costs of Melbourne, Monash, UK Uni like Sheffield and other Uni in mid-England, London areas, Scotland, Ireland etc. in a spreadsheet, trying to do a comparison of the fees/costs. Melbourne U is more expensive than UK Uni in mid-England, partly because of the intercalated Sc course. Uni like Imperial and University of London in London areas are adopting the 6 years course now and the fees are more expensive than midlands.

Monash Uni fee is comparable to IMU twinning option with UK. Tasmania U is about 25% cheaper.

Australia has changed the policy of allowing medical students to stay back to do housemanship and to work now (unlike old days whereby the students must get out of Australia). UK is a good place to go in the sense that one can continue post-graduate specialist studies after housemanship (depending on results).

Putting the fees aside, the immediate problem is how to GET a place. Competition is so great nowadays. One of my mother's friend 's son got rejected in his UCAS 4 choices in UK in his first application. Hence, he stayed at home for 1 year and reapplied the subsequent year and he got 2 offers in UK.

I was told that he managed to get a place in medical in Melbourne U with his A levels results of 3 A and 1 B without interview. Is this possible? Anyway, he went to UK.

How is the living cost in Melbourne? I think the accommodation and living costs of UK and Aust are about the same. Did you work?

I know of a friend who went to one of the midland U in Uk last Sept. and he worked 20 hours per week. My mother was telling me that during her time in UK in late 70/early 80, a few of her friends worked for 2 shifts (total of 16 hours per day) during summer holidays to earn for the fees. Such perseverance indeed!

Any advice to offer regarding using A levels results to apply for Monash?

[SHuLy]

hello.

steppe, do not lose all hopes on your JPA appeal. sometimes, the appeal does work out, but that will have to depend on your background; meaning if your parents are in the government sector.-this is something that i have noticed based on a few friends that i have under JPA.

but since you are thinking of studying overseas, i suppose you are financially sound to support yourself through tertiery education.perhaps it is not as bad as friends whom i know who got terrific results but failed to get JPA, and they are from the average income family.they had to enter form 6; compete with the matriculation students (with a different syllabus i should say) and in the end, offered a relatively unknown course in some university most of us never knew existed locally!

so, do be thankful and show gratitute towards your parents who had relentlessly sweated it out for your future!-and willing to 'invest' their savings on you.

it is not impossible for JPA to send a number of medical students to that university. there are many medical students under the sponsorship of JPA. however, i would like the mention the existence of JPA/MARA as well. there could have been an agreement between JPA/MARA with the university/government there. but as for JPA students in taylors college, we have to apply on our own as we are not guaranteed of a placing in any university.

"when everything is possible, nothing is impossible"[/b]

[chenchow]

Steppe, the list of recognized university by government of Malaysia was posted a few posts ahead by me. So, check it out.

[Steppe]

Chenchow, thanks for the kind consideration of posting the list of recognised university by government of Malaysia. I have been trying to get hold of this earlier but I do not know where to get it from the web. I have glanced through and I will use this list as a close guide for selecting the country and U later for my course.

I can see that you have been such a great help to most of us, like a very well knowledgeable, caring, concerned big brother/ advisor/ councillor.

Thnaks again.

[Steppe]

Hi, SHuLy, thanks for your encouragement.

My elder sister got 9 A1 and 1 A2 for her 2002 SPM and she did not get the JPA scholarship despite appeal. Last year, all the 10 A1 students got the JPA scholarship after appeal. Hence, we all accept the fact that her results was not 'straight' enough.

Now, even with my straight 10 A1, I still did not get the JPA. Naturally, we felt disappointed and lose 'hope/confidence ' in this so-called scholarship. I have a younger sister who is now in Form 5 and she is also smart. Hope she is not influenced by this and is still keeping up her good work to aim for good results.

My parents are not in the government sector but working for other companies in private. A few of my parents' colleagues' children (non-bumi) got JPA scholarship to do biotechnology in Australia, dentistry in Australia, pharmacy, medical, engineering etc. Their results are not necessarily 10 A1s but also 9 A1 and 1 A2. So, ...???

Still being an average family, it is not easy to send us overseas especially for medical or dentistry course. Luck seems to run out so far. I thought I did OK in the interview. I began to feel losing my confidence when it comes to interview now!

Anyway, I would like to find out from you which 4 Uni you applied for UCAS for your medical course. Did you go to UK for interview? Which U is your confirmed choice and which U is your insurance choice? Did you get all the 4 offers? What sort of questions did they ask during the interviews? Did you do voluntary community work? Shadowing the doctor etc.?

[chenchow]

Steppe, I hope that you have submitted an appeal for the scholarship. And i would say that the scholarship does not look at number of A1s, but at the exact results(like 95, 90 etc) that you get for each of the critical paper. For the past few years, because JPA guarantees scholarship for those straight A1s, so this effect is not that obvious, although a great number of those without straight A1s got it too.

And interview is crucial too... but never give up, am sure if you try your best, you will have a good future.

Steppe, invite your sister in F5 to join Guidance for SPM & STPM SIG. Ask her to invite her friends too. You too could join to help others that need help too!

[SHuLy]

i have yet to apply for my UCAS as i am doing a 2 year programme. i will be applying in a few months time though. however, i have no inkdefinite answer on which uni i am going to apply as i am still thinking about it...and of course, it will have to depend on my results

[The_Observer]

I usually like to encourage my juniors to follow their own hearts...so I stay out of uni applications and the stuff.

BTW, in reply to ur question...I am a 1st year med head...sounds young and fresh right? But I am grad-entry. I did my pre-U in Melbourne, got the marks for medic but due to a few unfortunate circumstances I had to spend 2 years in biomedical science. Did my GAMSAT and here I am!

To your questions:

1. Yes, there are a lot of JPA students here at the moment. Have to say, I am amused how they try to adjust to Melbourne. Quite haphazard and cause a bit of 'paiseh' to other Malaysians.

2. Considering my UniMelb roots...forget Monash...taking the IMU option to UK is more worth it. Same for Tassie Uni.

3. About doing medic here via A-lvls...the minimum mark is indeed 3 A and 1 B...but it is still subject to demand. If there is not much competition for that year, you might still be able to get in!
Your friend din get interviewed? WTH!?

4. Living costs in Melbourne (and Sydney) is atrocious. I do some tutoring jobs for Yr 12 or Foundation students to supplement myself. Dun actually need it but teaching is quite fun.

5. An easier way to Monash is via their foundation. A-level entry tend to be subject to demand. Pray for a lucky year!
Hmm...I forgot their cut-off mark for medic...

[Steppe]

The_Observer, thanks for the answers.

I have heard that it is possible to do biomedical?/bioscience? first year in Melbourne and then get into medical.

One of my friends (whose father is a doctor) is already having this in mind and is prepared to do so if he did not meet the cut-off marks.

[The_Observer]

Actually you can get into medic from any faculty provided you had:

1. Spent at least 2 years in that particular course
2. Sat for GAMSAT. If you meet their cut-off mark...you are in.

Word of advice: GAMSAT is excruciating hard!
You will need to prepare for it for like a year. SATs, UMAT, MCAT can't compare with it....I was kinda lucky I guess...
Better get through via undergrad!

I have friends from Art faculties...mainly psychology though...

I would have loved (and I could!) going straight into medic...but then something happened to the stash of money my parents saved up. Man! You should have seen my desperation during those final days of Febuary...

[pandaboy]

Hie everyone...this is my first time posting something... i am interested in knowing more about undergraduate medical degree in australia....as far as i am concerned, its extremely difficult to get a place there due to the tight and close competitions of late... just want to know more on this issue and did any of u guys out there who currently pursuing your course there?(jpa, petronas, private students...etc...)

Moved from a locked thread. :wink:
New recommer need some help here....

[The_Observer]

Got it.
Walao eh...I feel like I am the SIG's resident consultant...so lonely le...why nobody help me one??? If I wrong le and give wrong advice, then who going to correct me???

[Steppe]

The Observer, I think you better write the whole 'story' of how to apply Melbourne U, Monash U? or any other recommended Australian U once and for all for our reference (never mind, it is only your opinion).

When does one apply?
If from Malaysia, how to apply with A leves results? Is it direct to the U? (I am not familar with Aust application.)
Is there any interview conducted?
What sort of questions are asked during the interview?
etc. etc.

[The_Observer]

Perhaps I should...

Actually you can get this from their respective websites..
This is for Uni Melbourne, I guess it should be the same with the other uni.s , check with their websites or agent if you need more info.

You have 3 choices:
1. Applying online (UniMelb, Monash and UNSW does this). Fastest way but some uni.s still want you to send in another application form to confirm your application.

2. Print their application form (from website) or get it from some agent or what, fill it up, attach with results of whatever they want, then send it. It'll be good to get in contact with their admissions officer and tell them about you, ask them questions etc. so they know you are interested.

3. Talk to their representative when they come on their roadshows. This is how I did my applications. Best way because it causes less confusion.

So yes, you apply directly to the university. If you have an agent then they will do it for you, if not then have to DIY.

About interviews...you said your friend did not go through one. I thought they would interview in person or through phone even though you are an international student. UNSW and Univesity of Adelaide definitely does this. Same for Monash and Uni of Western Australia. But for Uni Melb, there are some ppl who did not go through interviews but most did.

Interview questions plain straight forward...like why you want to do medicine, what are your plans after you graduate, why you choose this uni.? bla bla bla

Luckily you guys do not need to sit for UMAT, being int'l students.
It is their equivalent of MCAT, bloody IQ test...

And most important thing...get good scores and pray for a good year!

[Steppe]

The Observer, I must say that you have done a very good job in sharing your medical knowledge and thanks for all what you have posted. It has been very informative, at least I have learnt a lot from you.

Perhaps, when you have time, you may post your experience, etc. regarding your medical course. We would like to hear how you feel/cope etc., etc, ups and down.

I heard the other day that an ex-schoolmate might give up his medical course (first year) because he could not stand the 'chemical' smell and it gave him headache almost every day. This was quite a surprise.

[The_Observer]

Now worries mate, the medical society is always tight we each other anyway.

I do not have much stories to tell...really. Things are pretty much straight forward, plain and a little drab. But if I do remember something interesting or important, I don't mind sharing. Just keep tab with the SIG, I'll always be around.

Hahaha, about formaldehyde. You just have to get used to it. I hope ur ex-schoolmate can cope with it because anatomy practicals are very important. So far, I haven't come across anybody who fainted or puked. I know my friend nearly fainted because he took a deep breath while hunting for the appendix.

[pandaboy]

The Observer, I think you better write the whole 'story' of how to apply Melbourne U, Monash U? or any other recommended Australian U once and for all for our reference (never mind, it is only your opinion).

When does one apply?
If from Malaysia, how to apply with A leves results? Is it direct to the U? (I am not familar with Aust application.)
Is there any interview conducted?
What sort of questions are asked during the interview?
etc. etc.

Can I comment something about this? Erm....i think the best is to consult the staffs in IDP, they will help u with this. They will keep u up to date about the interview methods, some using telephone interview. And also...about the selection exams.... Like PQA for Adelaide, ISAT for UWA and so on... They will also let u know which Uni is recommended by JPA, which is recognized by MMC and so on. So, the best is still...ask the IDP... Hope that helps. :wink:

[Steppe]

Pandaboy, thanks for your comments.

I have some ideas about UCAS application to UK but right now, I am not familiar with application to Australia U. I will look up the Australian U website to find out more

May I ask what is IDP? Sorry if I sound ignorant as I am still new to all these overseas applications, am still groping around to find out more and that is why I need Recom members/seniors' help and advice. Any contact tel no., address or email address whereby I can write or call?

[The_Observer]

I am rather surprised at that. I thought IDP was a rather large Australian organization.

Here is their details. I assume you are in KL. They also have branches in Penang, JB and Kuching.

Kuala Lumpur
6th Floor, West Block
Wisma Selangor Dredging
142-C Jalan Ampang
50450 Kuala Lumpur
Malaysia

Tel: 60 3 2162 3755
Fax 60 3 2162 2078
E-mail: info@<hidden>
Web: http://www.idp.com/malaysia/
Country Director: Ms Cynthia Celestine

[Steppe]

The Observer, thanks for the information, greatly appreciated.

Please bear with my ignorance and that is why I say I am still groping to find out more about all these overseas applications. Hence I join Recom to seek advice and pointers from all of you whom I have high regards as reliable, helpful, smart and knowledgeable seniors. I have to say that I have gained a lot of knowledge in Recom.

I am not from KL or any part of West Malaysia, see the problem?

I know something about UCAS and I did suspect that IDP is something like British Council type when pandaboy mentions it. I will contact them to find out more about Australia.

However, I also want to find out more about how to apply to India. Russia Moscow U and Taiwan. Can anyone advise me how does one apply to India, Russia Moscow U etc.? Does one apply direct to the U or have to go through an agent?

Without JPA scholarship, I want to do this 'research' of finding out about all these applications and hopefully a U whereby my parents can afford it and I can study either medicine or dentistry or in the worst case, some engineering/science course, or perhaps local private institution etc. etc. I suppose I have to be flexible. yet to see what comes along then. These medical courses are so competitive that one may not even get it, subject to all these interviews, pre-medic tests etc.

Lately, from the Recom, this biotech course etc. gets my attention. Honestly speaking, I am quite confused with biotech, biomedical etc. Which is which? To me, it sounds almost the same. I have gone through the thread of this but I don't think I am clear of what are all these about.

[pandaboy]

Which part of Malaysia are u from, Steppe? IDP has 5 offices in Malaysia, but i dont know where u r from, so u better check up on their websites.
IDP really helps a lot in application to any aus uni. Besides, they offer free consultation and many more. It's even better than British Council I guess... British Council didnt help much on my UK uni application though.

For application to UK unis, get help from MABECS at www.mabecs.com They even offer mock interviews for those applying to Cambridge and Oxford. Hope that helps. :wink:

About entering Melbourne U via Alevels, from wat i know is that...Melbourne U doesnt have interviews for their applicants. They dont even look at ur co-curriculum activities and so on. I dont know whether they will change their method of admission or not, but that is what i know so far. For medicine, u need 4A's or 5A's to secure a place. 4A's must include all the main subjects...not General Papers or Thinking Skills. So, u have to take extra subs in Alevels, like me... hehe.. I took Physics, Maths, Bio, and Chem. It's quite hectic, due to the extra subs, but it's very common to take extra subs here in Taylor's College. And from what I know, UK lower their requirements for those who apply using 4 Alevels subjects, though they didnt mention it in the offer letter. Maybe slightly only. I read this from one of the Uni's prospectus...I cant remember though.

Hope that helps.

[SHuLy]

hi..
well, just for your information, there is an IDP-Australia education centre here in Subang Jaya. it is just opposite Taylors College. to me, it looks quite small. perhaps if Steppe is nearby, you can drop by there and seek further information.

[The_Observer]

Well Steppe isn't from any part of West M'sia. Hahaha, I'm from Sarawak anyway, you?

I will try asking around for the applications to Taiwan or Russia. I don't know much myself but I have some friends who does...won't know how long I will take.

About biotech and its various names, I think there's a thread in the education channel about it. I think it covers a lot of ground on biotech etc etc.

One thing about A-levels entry to UniMelb, its not about the mark but the competition. Merely getting the required mark is just the beginning. It's always good to pray for a good year...

[Steppe]

Thanks Pandaboy, SHuLY and The Observer for the information and help.

I am from East Malaysia.

I have a look at MABECS website, looks impressive.

Regarding using A levels to apply for Melbourne U, I know of a friend who applied Melbourne U using his A levels results of 3A, 1B and he got the offer without any interview for 2003 Feb intake. However, he took up the UK offer, re-application in the gap year.

Hopefully, this admission entry application will still be valid next year?

[SHuLy]

ah, ok.

were you refering the question to me the_observer?

[The_Observer]

Nah...I was asking Steppe here, which part of East Malaysia is he from. Well...he declined to answer but nevermind.

[SHuLy]

would anyone like to recommend any universities to study medicine in UK ?

[lee4ever]

Hi there Shuly!
Well, it's all up to us to make our own choices, really as there is never a single ideal list of 4 universities to be put down on your UCAS form. It varies from one person to another. Try to consult your counsellor, your friends, seniors etc etc. but most importantly, ask yourself and look deep within yourself. Which uni do you really wanna go? And are you willing to put in the extra effort and go out of the way to get accepted into your dream uni? If yes, then go for it! Don't hesitate.

A little tip in shortlisting the 4 unis:
Select at most two unis which you really really wanna go to. (I guess that these two unis should be highly competitive unis...)
Then pick one uni that as a 'realistic option'. i.e. easier to get into compared to the first two unis.
Lastly, select a 'back-up' uni, preferable one with a relatively low competition for places, or maybe even no interviews (um... except for Edinburgh lar...).
That's a rough idea of how I shortlisted my 4 unis last year.

My UCAS choices were: Cambridge, Edinburgh, King's College London & Newcastle upon Tyne.

I'd recommend you give Oxbridge a try!

[SHuLy]

thank you for the assistance.

despite all the effort put in to seek for "THE" place that will suit me best, my efforts are in vain... this is due to the fact that there are so many websites that publish different information about the university and the place itself (and these are reliable sites), i still have to find out about the course structure, lifestyle, rankings,..etc.

it's taking up a lot of time, so perhaps those of u who had gone through this can help me out..hehe, at least it'll be concise.

[The_Observer]

One man/woman 's meat is another's poison.

We won't give you any guarantees but we give you all we can! :D
Don't hesitate to ask.

[pandaboy]

SHuLy, since u are from Taylor's College, you should have attend the talks given by MABECS rite? Which Alevels intake are u from? I think the MABECS talks are really helpful, they help u to list down all the medical unis in uk, what type of teaching approach they are using (PBL , traditional or system based), whether there is an interview or not, where the interviews will be held and so on. Or try to ask Taylor's Placement Officers for help. HTH. :wink:

[SHuLy]

the talks are still on. the slot for medicine is next week. i will be going of course. ..well, just see wut happens...

i am from the July '03 intake.

[pandaboy]

the talks are still on. the slot for medicine is next week. i will be going of course. ..well, just see wut happens...

i am from the July '03 intake.

Ooo....no wonder u didnt go for last year's talk. So u'll be sitting for ur A2 finals this coming Oct rite?

I think your problems will be more or less solved after u go for the talk. Dont forget to get all the handouts, about writing ur personal statements, list of universities and etc. Writing the personal statement is very important, it's more important than our SPM results. I have a fren, a JPA scholar who got all A's for his SPM and 4A's for his AS but was rejected by all 4 unis he applied to. Must be something wrong with his personal statement. So good luck in applying!

[Steppe]

SHuLY,

Is the talk in Taylor's, only to Taylor's student? When is it?

[SHuLy]

hmm...i am not sure whether it is opened to the public or for Taylors students only, but i think it's a closed event. it is held in taylors, of which, u kinda need an ID to enter the college grounds. and i think it was taylors who invited mabecs to give the talk...for the college students.

but of course, i am not 100% sure.

thanks for the kind advice. will do my best and try to write the most sincere personal statement...
but i am afraid that it will be too corny and all.....say, any advice/tips?

[pandaboy]

Did u go for medical attachment? If u did, write about it...it really helps. If u r scheduled for a medical attachment end of this year....write about it also... Tell them something like...why u wanted to go for the medical attachment and what u hope to gain from it.

Erm...wat else. Tips that I was told before... write about what u gain from ur experience. Say u r a head prefect...head of society and etc...dun just write ur position. Write about what u'd learnt when u r a head prefect...what r ur responsibilies...what does it teach u about life...bla bla bla. Erm erm...wat else....write about ur hobbies too....may sound irrelevant but the admission officer wants to know more about urself. That's what personal statement is for. And......i think u should get the sticker ...where u can print out what u typed for ur personal statement...cos u can type more. If u write, ur handwriting will take up a lot of space...if ur handwriting is small, ppl will have difficulties in reading it. But if u type using font size around 10, it wasnt so bad on the eye...and it's neat. Hope u get wat i mean. (^_^)

Oh ya, dont forget to let ur English teacher to check ur personal statement for grammar mistakes and watever mistakes. Let the Mabecs ppl to check as well..since they're experienced in this kind of stuffs.

That's all I think. Did i mentioned about all this already? Sorry if I did mentioned earlier... Hope that helps. (^_^)

[SHuLy]

since the site is idle, i might as well post something up here.

well, i gave my personal statement to the MABECS counsellors. time and time again, they played like a tape recorder--"show more commitment, be more realistic..etc". am i being not committed? am i not reflecting what i perceive?--i think i have been showing commitment realistically!...well, they never specified what or how to reflect that commitment, given what i have done and doing. so....aih*. and since MABECS is FAR from taylors, they also told me that i can email them--sadly, no reply. i wonder if it is now being circulated over the www!

overall, i really don't see anything good about MABECS. they couldn;'t help with the universities' information or locations. all they could say was, "look up in the prospecutus" worst still, the prospectuses available at MABECs are not updated! they don't even have quite a number of the university's prospectus!

but anyway, i gave my teacher my PS, and she said it was ok. it had reflected me (i hope it's the positive side of it! =D) and it's ...well, OK. i have a question here: will there ever be "Good" personal statements??

.....and so, i am still revising my personal statement.

i have yet to select the universities i want to go to! it's a real problem and somehow, i really cannot decide. the dateline is nearing and i really need to get it done. any recommendations?

[Tralon]

If u r interseted on studying med in India...The intake would b starting from August/ September..

1. For M'sians,and other foreigners, d govt of India imposed rules for taking entrance examination b4 entering..although i heard that some lucky few got in without entrance xm into private med schools here..

2. Have 2 pay "Capitation Fees" or so called Management fees...Cost around USD 150-300k, depending on which med school and how desperate u want it. Could b paid in installment also..

3. Best alternative, go through d manipal/melaka twinning programme or if u r lucky, apply for d annual India High Commission programme where they take 1 or two M'sian students per year..Call d embassy for further details.

4. Living standard wise, depends on d city where u choose..Bangalore for example is expensive even for M'sian standard. Belgaum is remote, Manipal, quite cosmo and a live uni environment.

5. School and exam fees is quite cheap though...Almost a standard rate for locals and foreigners. (non-twinning programme)

6. Course is around 5 and a half year including internship..MBBS .

7. Post Graduate course..difficult 2 enter as mostly not recognized and too many competition along with the locals also.Better "Celup" at other countries though..

8. Study wise, Non-integrated course..First 2 and half years pre-clinical..Mugging is d word..Memorizing all d details..though d later half u r posted for d early part of clinicals..Once u get into clinicals, d subject becomes interesting though..Local language during clinicals is a necessary but not a must..

9. If u d type wanna see and dissect cadavers, India is d place..Forensic department is not bad also,further along d study course, as u can dissect "mangled" and damaged cadavers..but at least it is still fresh with blood still oozing out of it....sorry..this is not a joke..

10. B sure though, join d "recognized" med school as some of my comrades who don't, regret later on.U'll b sorry as d local M'sian Univ med license is very unforgiving. Just for d sake 2 save a few bucks, had 2 waste a lot of time taking final year xm's in M'sia when they graduate.

Hope that's enough..Feel free 2 ask further..

[SHuLy]

is medicine in India intergrated?

[Tralon]

I'm afraid not..They still follow d old British system..2 1/2 years of pre-clinicals where u don't see any patients except once u r in final half (2nd year i suppose), they introduce u to clinicals where u get 2 see real patients...Tha'ts where they teach u d beginnig of History taking, signs, symptoms and if u r lucky..diagnose.. So that once u r in clinicals..The profs would have a "field" day in interogating and grilling u .

hehe. i'm bored. mind me chucking in? my advice: medic is a difficult field. you have to get your base strong enough. and you have to build it the correct way. you don't want to be interrupted halfway to correct your shaky foundation. so? better think properly where you want to do your med degree. you don't want to graduate and still feel stupid. so don't just jump into some place that has got a cheaper offer but compromises quality. alright mate?

[titep_shin]

ds is the 1st day i register as a recom member...so i stil not sure about the function....so i suppose u all can c my msg?if can c...plz reply 2 let me know my message is posted :p

i am a STPM 2003 4.0 and an unfortunately 128..... i been offered indonesia and i rejected.after i rejected it due to financial problem, gov say it can converted to scholrship if v serve gov for 10 years...but it's too late.... i aldy reject it ....%$#@<hidden>!#$!@<hidden>

so i 'been offered biomedical science.... and steppee...ds is about biomedical science....
biomedical science is basicly a lab job. v study thing almost same with the medicine student,but v don't have a clinical years.for biomedic,v normally study 3 o 4 years,then v gian knowledge about science which are focus on medical field.v all helper of doctor.so v can do research,lab diagnostic work....etc....there are saying tht biomedical graduate can enter as 2nd or 3rd year medic stdent in oversea U,but i am not sure about it.

i drop my biomedical course in UM . i decide to fulfil my dream as a doctor since my childhood.so i aply for local University again and taiwan medicine and China medicine. the application for taiwan medicine is aldy close but for china,it will b close in 30 april,so any1 interested ,plz b quick.

China medicine degree is not recognised by MMC,so graduates have to go through a final year exam s the local U medicine student does.(anyone can plz help to tell me more about the examination and recognition question?)can any1 tell me more about medicin in taiwan and china oso ?

i dun like rusia...and i afraid i can't adapt in Rusia.so hopefuly i can gain entry of Taiwan medicine which are recognised by MMC or local U
pray for me plz :P

[aerenkima_1028]

i really wanna know does reputation effect us.. cause im about to go to ukraine to persue medic programme.. unlike others, we did not get scholarship and we have to do our medic some where else cheaper.. but is it really that bad.. people prefer to choose aussie or uk graduates.. we dun have the cash to study there.. wat can we do.. my dad's is the only one working alone.. and he has to pay for me and my brother's medic programme fee's... pls advice me on this.. i dun wan to study med and in the end, i am not prefered by hospitals over uk and aussie.. or even other graduates...

i really wanna know does reputation effect us.

One word: YES!!

[anonymous-passer-by]

aerenkima_1028,
medicine is not about which country you've graduated or which "prestigous" university you've graduated from. It is in you. The best doctor can graduate from the worst medical school, and vice versa. I am a final year medical student in a local public univesity and i have seen too many oversea doctors coming back from the countries you've mentioned and they are all the SAME and no difference from those coming back from india or china or taiwan or indonesia or russia. What's make them different from the latter is perhaps, they have rich parents who can afford their uk or aussie medical education. All these are very subjective, it really depends on yourself. If you do not study well during undergraduate days, you're definitely far behind those who have made an effort to. You build your own reputation from the first day you work as a doctor, how you practice medicine, how you treat your patients, how you work in a team in hospital, and how public see you as a doctor. let's say, there's this doctor who graduated from australia or uk, who cannot even perform a simple operation succesfully VERSUS another doctor who graduated from, let's say, indonesia, who perform the same task skillfully and with 100% success rate.. which one will you respect? and which doctor will gain that reputation you've mentioned?
The public will have their own judgement. And it is not the balck and white on your certificate that matters anymore.
[/quote]

[youngyew]

aerenkima_1028,
medicine is not about which country you've graduated or which "prestigous" university you've graduated from. It is in you. The best doctor can graduate from the worst medical school, and vice versa. I am a final year medical student in a local public univesity and i have seen too many oversea doctors coming back from the countries you've mentioned and they are all the SAME and no difference from those coming back from india or china or taiwan or indonesia or russia. What's make them different from the latter is perhaps, they have rich parents who can afford their uk or aussie medical education. All these are very subjective, it really depends on yourself. If you do not study well during undergraduate days, you're definitely far behind those who have made an effort to. You build your own reputation from the first day you work as a doctor, how you practice medicine, how you treat your patients, how you work in a team in hospital, and how public see you as a doctor. let's say, there's this doctor who graduated from australia or uk, who cannot even perform a simple operation succesfully VERSUS another doctor who graduated from, let's say, indonesia, who perform the same task skillfully and with 100% success rate.. which one will you respect? and which doctor will gain that reputation you've mentioned?
The public will have their own judgement. And it is not the balck and white on your certificate that matters anymore.
[/quote]
I agree with anonymous-passer-by that there are a lot of factors that decide the reputation of a doctor. However, it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles. Although it's not a good yardstick of a doctor's competence, as anonymous has pointed out, but this is inevitably one of the way public perceive a doctor.

[DrChan]

it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles

I believe whoever who wrote this should be, the most, a first year medical student. Seriously, you should do something about your arrogant attitude. It is only going to degrade you. As a senior in this line, I forgive your ignorance. You'll learn more about what the actual medical profession is all about in years to come. Way to go little brother/sister..

[youngyew]

it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles
I believe whoever who wrote this should be, the most, a first year medical student. Seriously, you should do something about your arrogant attitude. It is only going to degrade you. As a senior in this line, I forgive your ignorance. You'll learn more about what the actual medical profession is all about in years to come. Way to go little brother/sister..
Dear doctor, sorry if I seem arrogant to you; but I believe you have been too aloof to take my message out of the context. Let me show you my message again:
I agree with anonymous-passer-by that there are a lot of factors that decide the reputation of a doctor. However, it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles. Although it's not a good yardstick of a doctor's competence, as anonymous has pointed out, but this is inevitably one of the way public perceive a doctor.
Dear doctor, please read my last line. I said this is one of the way the public perceive a doctor, not a way doctors or medical students himself should perceive their own competence. If you have any doubt about the statement, just go to the street and ask any pedestrian about his or her opinion and about Dr. A from India and Dr. B from UK. Everything else being equal, the public would inevitably have a subliminal thought that doctor who graduated from UK is better than the one graduated from India. I know this is a very wrong thought, but the subliminal thought is definitely there in many people. That's the only message I want to bring out. Accept it or not, the thought is there.

Dear doctor, to make a clarification, I personally do not view it this way, so I believe your view of me is awfully judgmental, probably based on the bias that many students choose medical schools based on the country alone. As a first year medical student who fully understand the hectic life of a doctor, to the extent of making a doctor incapable of comprehending a simple message in the right context, I wouldn't mind your judgmental attitude this time. But next time, please read the message carefully before accusing one as arrogant. I have just started my medical studies, so I don't have the right to say anything about the qualification of a doctor yet; but I am sure that the medical training you had must have taught you to listen to your patients carefully and not to be judgmental and partial towards your patient based only on a partial trait observed in a particular moment.

Thanks for your advice, dear doctor. I hope that you would consider my advice too, dear senior.

p/s: Oh yea, here is the meaning of reputation, if you happen to forget the meaning or are simply confused.
rep?u?ta?tion
n.

1. The general estimation in which a person is held by the public.
2. The state or situation of being held in high esteem.
3. A specific characteristic or trait ascribed to a person or thing: a reputation for courtesy.

[DrChan2akanoneedname2]

it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles

I believe whoever who wrote this should be, the most, a first year medical student. Seriously, you should do something about your arrogant attitude. It is only going to degrade you. As a senior in this line, I forgive your ignorance. You'll learn more about what the actual medical profession is all about in years to come. Way to go little brother/sister..

[Mod: Vulgar word censored.] anyone can just put DrXXX as the username. How do we know you are senior enough? Way to go lil' senior!

[chiunlin]

I agree with anonymous-passer-by that there are a lot of factors that decide the reputation of a doctor. However, it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles. Although it's not a good yardstick of a doctor's competence, as anonymous has pointed out, but this is inevitably one of the way public perceive a doctor.

I believe whoever who wrote this should be, the most, a first year medical student. Seriously, you should do something about your arrogant attitude. It is only going to degrade you. As a senior in this line, I forgive your ignorance. You'll learn more about what the actual medical profession is all about in years to come. Way to go little brother/sister..

First of all, we indeed don't know who this DrChan is, he may not be a senior doctor, and may indeed be just one of the recom members here posing as another. But again, it's not altogether correct to undermine someone's post just because we don't know who he is or whether he is authoritative enough to speak on that profession.

Youngyew, when I first read your post, I do agree, as you have later clarified in the shout box, that the public perceive those studying in certain foreign universities(example: UK) will be a better doctor than those studying at other universities(example: India) upon graduation. . However, a doctor's reputation, in my opinion, doesn't have much to do with the country he/she graduated from. Before we proceed, we need to define what we mean by reputation. Here's a hypothetical situation: Given a choice of doctors A, B, C, and let's say you're sick, which doctor will your parents send you to? Do they look at their qualifications when they make the choice? Or do they judge on the skills of the doctors and recommendations from others who are once treated by the doctors? From my point of view, the qualifications have not much of a bearing at all(except if the doctor is a specialist, but that's a different case). What constitute a doctor's reputation is how the community around him perceive of his ability. I believe this is the reputation meant by DrChan, and hence the disagreement.

Here's a digression, has nothing to do about doctor's reputation.
Youngyew, when DrChan said you are arrogant, I agreed, though not fully, until I read your reply. In your first post, your use of words such as "undeniable" and "inevtiable" are too strong and gives the impression that you have generalized from your own opinions.
Dear doctor, sorry if I seem arrogant to you; but I believe you have been too aloof to take my message out of the context.
At this point, I was forced to think of you as arrogant. You have just used the classic tu quoque argument to defend yourself. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tu%20quoque

And the more I read, the more I feel you were not being yourself in the post.
Dear doctor, to make a clarification, I personally do not view it this way, so I believe your view of me is awfully judgmental, probably based on the bias that many students choose medical schools based on the country alone. As a first year medical student who fully understand the hectic life of a doctor, to the extent of making a doctor incapable of comprehending a simple message in the right context, I wouldn't mind your judgmental attitude this time. But next time, please read the message carefully before accusing one as arrogant. I have just started my medical studies, so I don't have the right to say anything about the qualification of a doctor yet; but I am sure that the medical training you had must have taught you to listen to your patients carefully and not to be judgmental and partial towards your patient based only on a partial trait observed in a particular moment.

It would be fine if everything had ended with the paragraph before the quoted paragraph. Dude, you're being "awfully judgemental" and acrimonious when you say he might be "incapable of comprehending a simple message in the right context." And you even said this yourself "I am sure that the medical training you had must have taught you to listen to your patients carefully and not to be judgmental and partial towards your patient based only on a partial trait observed in a particular moment."

And you end it off with excessive sarcasm
Thanks for your advice, dear doctor. I hope that you would consider my advice too, dear senior.

p/s: Oh yea, here is the meaning of reputation, if you happen to forget the meaning or are simply confused.
All in all, I think you're not quite being yourself when you're making the post. Now, where had the level-headed and intellectual youngyew gone to?

p/s: I know these anonymous guests do get on your own nerves sometimes, just ignore them if it's not something constructive. And I seriously think this SIG needs a real senior doctor.

[noneedname2]

All in all, I think you're not quite being yourself when you're making the post. Now, where had the level-headed and intellectual youngyew gone to?

this is how the real youngyew is ma'am. people reveal their true self when they speak their mind. you do not force people to say what people want to hear ma'am.

malaysians are status-conscious lots. i think you people are just saying what other people want to hear, you people are just being nice to others. please be true to yourself.

i support youngyew eventhough he busted my ass before but i feel he's genuine so i support him.

Given a choice of doctors A, B, C, and let's say you're sick, which doctor will your parents send you to? Do they look at their qualifications when they make the choice? Or do they judge on the skills of the doctors and recommendations from others who are once treated by the doctors?

your example should start from the start. people usually go to the doctor they frequent. let's say you just moved to a new place. and there're 2 clinics side-by-side near your place: dr. A who graduated from cambridge and dr. B from ukraine. who will you go to? and to get the best answer, go ask people in the mall or ask your parents. i bet dr. A will have the 'wow' factor. you people might pop up the skills question. but you don't know until you try both of them right? seriously, who do you prefer to trust at first?

if you're talking about emergencies, this rule doesn't apply. because people won't even ask about who that doctor is because they only think about their loved-ones' safety. they'll trust anyone who says that he's a doctor.

And I seriously think this SIG needs a real senior doctor.

do you think all doctors are as free as our Dr.Chan?

[youngyew]

Overview

This post is going to be a bit long, so I am sorry and hope that you can bear with my verbosity if you decide to read it. I will try to be as objective and impartial as possible, and please correct or add anything you see unfit. For this purpose I will try to look at the event from everyone's perspective. While I am sure of my own perspective and rationale, I can't speak on behalf of other people, so for "other's perspective" here I am only making an educated guess which can be wrong.


Previous Posts

First of all, I was attracted by the topic "selecting a university for medicine", so I came in and fast-forwarded to skim the last few posts in page 4. I read aerenkima_1028, Guest and anonymous-passer-by's posts. From the fast-reading, I had a rough idea that aerenkima asked if the country of a medical school affects a doctor's reputation. While Guest only said "Yes", anonymous-passer-by provided a more elaborated idea about the components that contribute to a doctor's reputation, disregarding the component of the country.


My Post

Upon reading this, while agreeing with the various components tabled by anonymous, I begged to differ on disregarding "country" totally. I did it based on my definition of reputation (which I believe is close to the "formal definition"): the public perception of a person in a society. In the case of doctor, the definition would be: the public perception of a doctor's competence. [Note: the definition of "reputation" is one of the sparks that triggered the event] I based my opinion on the ground that the common prejudice of public such as UK medical schools are better than Ukraine medical schools (the prejudice has been well agreed upon in many threads in this very forum). Hence my post:

I agree with anonymous-passer-by that there are a lot of factors that decide the reputation of a doctor. However, it's an undeniable fact that part of the reputation does depend on the name of the country on his or her shingles. Although it's not a good yardstick of a doctor's competence, as anonymous has pointed out, but this is inevitably one of the way public perceive a doctor.
My points are:

1. I agreed with anonymous about this: "You build your own reputation from the first day you work as a doctor, how you practice medicine, how you treat your patients, how you work in a team in hospital, and how public see you as a doctor"

2. However, it's my opinion that when all the abovementioned factors are being equal, the abovementioned prejudice about country will affect one's view of a doctor's competence, i.e. a doctor's reputation. Please note that I said part of the reputation, not the whole reputation. For example, imagine a hypothetical situation as given by noneedname2 later:

let's say you just moved to a new place. and there're 2 clinics side-by-side near your place: dr. A who graduated from cambridge and dr. B from ukraine. who will you go to? and to get the best answer, go ask people in the mall or ask your parents. i bet dr. A will have the 'wow' factor. you people might pop up the skills question. but you don't know until you try both of them right? seriously, who do you prefer to trust at first?

3. I agree that this is definitely a wrong way of deciding a doctor's competence. That also implies that I don't judge a doctor's competence from the country, considering that I would only do things that I believe is "right".

4. However, I am sure that the prejudice exists in our society. Not all people might think that way, but surely some do.


Possible Alternative Interpretations of "Reputation"

The problem, as I have said, might have arised from different interpretations from the same word - reputation. It's common for different people to interpret the same word differently, and it's in fact a part of ReCom spirit for us to accept and understand different opinions, belief and ideas from everyone.

In this case, I think I might have had a subtle but consequential difference in the concept of "reputation'. For me, reputation means no more than "perception of competence" regardless of the amount of experience. That means, from the day one a doctor hang out his or her shingle, he has already had a reputation - how the public think of the competence. And from the countless number of arguments I tried to present, I think I have been clear enough that country does play a part in it.

For other people, reputation may take another set of meaning. For example some may take reputation as the trust, worthiness, competence, confidence etc of a doctor, and can only be established throughout experience gained from years of medical service by personal contact with patients. In this case, I agree with Chiun Lin. As he said later, the country of the medical school would have minimal (if any at all) influence on a doctor's reputation. The reason is pretty obvious: If you have lived in a town for 10 years, which doctor would you go to when you are sick? Of course the doctor who is the most effective, most caring, most acclaimed by neighbourhood; not the doctor who come from a particular country.

Hence we can see the extent opinions about the same thing can differ, stemming from the interpretation of one word.


Dr_Chan's Post

A guest nicknamed DrChan dropped by ReCom, and saw my post above. I shall not discuss whether the guest is a real doctor, as it doesn't cause any difference to the weight of his opinion in this particular case.

DrChan castigated me as an arrogant fresh medical student. I doubt how he knows that I am a medical student, but this is another issue altogether. However, I have tried to guess about the reason he reckoned me as arrogant. (remember I said that it's just a guess)

Firstly, it is possible that he take the second meaning of reputation. He might have thought that I have been foolish and arrogant to think that a doctor's medical school country could leave a lasting impact on a doctor's reputation even after 30 years. And as I have explained, I didn't mean so.

Secondly, my location display (Melbourne, Australia) might have even reinforced his idea of me being puffed up. I could have been thought as a medical student who is so proud with my medical school, who is gleaming with blinding pride, who thinks that I would definitely be looked high upon by the society because of my "pretty good school", and who would belittle disdainfully at people who enrol in "inferior" medical schools.

Ask anyone who knows me personally in ReCom, or even better, in real life. You would know.


My Angry Reply to DrChan

An innocent post turned out to be an evidence of my alleged "arrogance", that was the biggest shock I have ever had in ReCom. The first thought that raced through my mind was 'Huhh? What is this Dr talking about? Arrogance?" and some mildly offensive words that shall not be displayed here. I was so annoyed, or in other not-so-nice words, pissed off. I was thinking, how could this doctor simply accuse me like that? What is his or her reason? He didn't even give a reason!! This guy must have been very judgmental, without first interpreting my message carefully. Stupid larrr...

Try to put yourselves in my shoes, imagine you were the one who faced all these, and you would understand how I felt and what you would like to do. In this case, I followed my unbearable urge: reply with an explanation and retort with a sarcastic tone. While the first one goes without saying, the second one is my style of answering a person who has seriously offended me.


Here's My Reply to Chiunlin

Chiunlin: I was aloof and sarcastic when I posted the reply. I agree to this allegation unconditionally. As I was typing that reply, I was even very aware of the very fact that I was being mean and sarcastic in the whole post. It's because I was annoyed. And no, you were wrong - there was no pretense in that angry reply - this is the real me. When I am level-headed, I am a level-headed youngyew; when I am pissed off, I am a pissed-off youngyew. Different facets of the same person. I am just another young guy, I do get annoyed when people accuse me baselessly. I don't get angry unnecessarily just because they don't get my message, as misunderstanding and distortion of opinions is all but common in a forum; but to make bad assumptions on a person's whole character based on a single line you see in an online forum, what more a wrong interpretation of a line, is simply inadmissible to me. That's why I have to retaliate.

Normally I don't care to reply trolls or unconstructive stuff at all, like what I did to babikia in another thread. But what Dr. Chan did was a slander to my character, which leave me with no choice other than to retort.

By the way, I do agree that the last few paragraphs were actually unnecessary in presenting my explanation. These paragraphs were, I admit, written merely to retort his accusation - like a child who engages in a trivial bickering. Imitating his sentence while trying to be sarcastic, writing insensible opinions like "incapable of understanding simple message", all of these have been emotional reactions of mine in retrospect.


My Regards

Emotions are stirred and moods are disrupted. I understand that I was wrong in a few aspects.

First of all, I failed to see (on that instant) that the doctor said so simply because we had different interpretation of reputation. If I have realized this, I wouldn't have been so angry.

Secondly, I understand that my angry reply was not the best a mature person could produce; but then again, I never claimed myself to be perfectly mature in the face of difficulties and emotion disturbance. I am sorry that I have been offensive in that angry reply, especially in the allegation that the doctors is incapable of understanding a simple statement. With this, if Dr Chan feels that I owe him or her an apology, I would give it wholeheartedly.

However, talking about some allegations, I would like to insist on my innocence.

Firstly, in every single word of every single post, I am myself.

Secondly, the usage of words such as "undeniable" and "inevitable" are just some qualifiers of statements, it has nothing to do with generalizing an idea from my own opinions. Whenever I said the public, it means the public that I observe, it doesn't necessarily include me. [note: This is another spark. Many people take my remarks of the public as my own characteristic. Not the first time already, and it causes problem every time.]

Thirdly, I have the right to be sarcastic. I believe being sarcastic without breaching the border of personal attack is not an offense and is well in the range of healthy message exchange.

Fourthly, getting angry is my normal reaction. :) And being angry about being wrongly accused is even more normal. Having said that, I know that it's wrong to write such a post. I am just saying that I was wrong, but normal.


My Reply to aerenkima_1028

After all the commotion, I realized that I never really answered you, aerenkima. In my opinion, I think if you are set to go to Ukraine, just go with no worries. As others have said, if you are a good material, if you have the right qualities such as the psychological make-up, the underlying values, the personality, the persistence, diligence, cognitive skills, communication skills etc, you will definitely become a good doctor with a good reputation regardless of the country you study in. As Dr Chan said, from the first day we start your medical career, we will know that it involves much more than the country...


The End - It's been a tiring day. In case anyone is concerned - I am having holidays. :P

[Cloudie]

New Straits Times ? Letters

Stop sending students West
DR NG CHEONG KEAT, Kuala Lumpur

April 5:
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I THINK the Public Service Department should stop sending students to European or American universities for medical courses. I understand that each of these students will cost the Government or tax-payers almost RM1 million.


Currently, Malaysia has so many (almost 17) public or private medical schools. Thus producing doctors with basic degrees is not a problem. In fact, we seem to be "mass producing" such doctors.

There is no need to send student overseas to pursue medical courses.

If the PSD wants to send students for medical courses, they should send these students to countries like India, Indonesia or Russia (or even our own private medical colleges) where the tuition fee is much lower and quality is more or less the same.

In fact for each student sponsored in European or American universities, we can probably send five or six students to other countries.

The quality of medical students graduating from European/American universities is not superior.

We should spend the money sending doctors for subspecialty training or specialities such as oncology, haemotology, plastic surgery, cardiology, cardiothoracic surgery, uro-gynaecology, etc, which is not available or lacking in Malaysia.

[bush]

JPA sends students to the States for medicine?

[meselsohnstahl]

shows how much that guy knows bout medicine..
thought medicine is only a postgrad degree in us and canada??

[youngyew]

shows how much that guy knows bout medicine..
thought medicine is only a postgrad degree in us and canada??
Yup, it's postgraduate in US.

[bush]

doctor.......somemore......

Hi,

I am interested to find out especially under JPA scholarship for medicine whether there are any particular preferred /'selected'/ 'listed' U designated for JPA scholars application in the following countries:
1. Russia
2. India
3. UK
4. Australia

Does anybody have the information of how many JPA scholars are there in India? In which U? Any website URL? Is the course a 5 years course? How is the living cost? Is it cheap or expensive? How do you apply, direct application to the particular U?

Is the medical course conducted in English in Russia? How are the facilities? Any problem with learning the Russian language? For the clinical part, any problem with dealing/understanding the Russian patients?

What about Taiwan U? Which are the Malaysian recognised U? Any URL?

As for Tasmania U, is the medical degree recognised by Malaysian gov't?

Regarding the UK application, please share the interview experience. What are the questions asked? Any advice, tip etc.?
Please advise on writing the personal statement. How do you go around doing voluntary work? Does the Kolej arrange for you?


U all never heard of Tasmania Uni ? Its med programme can be considered the among the top in Aus. Ask any Aussie ppl, u'll know.

According to IMU(http://imu.edu.my/partner_about_australasia.htm),

"Founded in 1890, the University of Tasmania is one of the oldest universities in Australia. It is highly regarded internationally as a teaching and research institution and, because it is the only university in the state of Tasmania, it offers a wide range of Bachelor, Masters and PhD programs as well as English Language and Foundation Studies programmes. The University has a total student population of more than 16,000 students. It has two campuses, in Hobart and Launceston, as well as a study centre situated in Burnie, on the state?s north-west coast.

The medical program at the University of Tasmania has been consistently rated as the best of the six-year programs in Australia in terms of student satisfaction and teaching quality (The Australian Good Universities Guide). It is a small medical School with a total intake of only 75 students each year, which includes approximately 18 international students. Students are treated as individuals, not as anonymous numbers in a large class, and they have plenty of opportunities to interact with teachers, including senior hospital staff."

[sweetiojj]

can i know which country is good to study medicine after spm?

[sweetiojj]

can i know wat is UCAS?

[Patrick]

can i know wat is UCAS?

It's kind of like a centralised system for systematic allocation of places for tertiary education in the UK.

www.ucas.com for more information.

A good university, I feel, is a blend of teaching methods, environment, living costs, reputation, and how it brings the best out of you.

You might want to check out the course structures of the universities that you are interested in. For examply, PBL (Problem-based learning) is a core aspect in Manchester and Liverpool Medical School. If you want a traditional approach, there's always Oxford and Cambridge.


If you like to be in hustling cities, you can always opt for the Imperial school of medicine, Queen Mary London, St. Georges, UCL, King's College, etc. However, if you want smaller cities (but they aren't exactly small), there's Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Edinburgh, etc. If you want even smaller cities (maybe towns), there's Oxbridge. Living costs get lower as you move out of London (though this may not be necessarily true).

Hmm...about reputation. Reputation is probably important if you're seeking for excellence in life. Oxbridge, for example, is more reputable than say, Queen Mary London. But this doesn't mean doctors from QM (Queen Mary) aren't good. They're just as good, but they have a different label. To put it bluntly, it's like Coca-cola and Tesco cola..... I believe that medical schools other than Oxbridge churn out more patient-centred doctors, as Oxbridge deprives you of your patient contact in your first three years. The only way for you to interact with patients is via the "Preparing For Patients" programme. So, there's always a drawback in any university you choose.

What's in a university may not be in another. You'll just have to rank what you find most important, and base your choices according to them. You'll only have 4 choices for UK medical schools, so choose wisely!

[sweetiojj]

hi..patrick.. can i know what medical college in uk that we can chose? are u form college mara banting? how u get in there? can i get in there through my spm result sthis year?i m non bumi...



can i know wat is UCAS?

It's kind of like a centralised system for systematic allocation of places for tertiary education in the UK.

www.ucas.com for more information.

A good university, I feel, is a blend of teaching methods, environment, living costs, reputation, and how it brings the best out of you.

You might want to check out the course structures of the universities that you are interested in. For examply, PBL (Problem-based learning) is a core aspect in Manchester and Liverpool Medical School. If you want a traditional approach, there's always Oxford and Cambridge.


If you like to be in hustling cities, you can always opt for the Imperial school of medicine, Queen Mary London, St. Georges, UCL, King's College, etc. However, if you want smaller cities (but they aren't exactly small), there's Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Edinburgh, etc. If you want even smaller cities (maybe towns), there's Oxbridge. Living costs get lower as you move out of London (though this may not be necessarily true).

Hmm...about reputation. Reputation is probably important if you're seeking for excellence in life. Oxbridge, for example, is more reputable than say, Queen Mary London. But this doesn't mean doctors from QM (Queen Mary) aren't good. They're just as good, but they have a different label. To put it bluntly, it's like Coca-cola and Tesco cola..... I believe that medical schools other than Oxbridge churn out more patient-centred doctors, as Oxbridge deprives you of your patient contact in your first three years. The only way for you to interact with patients is via the "Preparing For Patients" programme. So, there's always a drawback in any university you choose.

What's in a university may not be in another. You'll just have to rank what you find most important, and base your choices according to them. You'll only have 4 choices for UK medical schools, so choose wisely!

[Patrick]

Well, it'd be a real hassle for me to write them all here as there are just too many medical schools in the UK.

But, you know, you always have Google. Do some research by yourself.

Well, you MAY get into MARA College Banting if you choose subjects like Engineering or Medicine. There are about 46 non-Bumis here (23 in 1st year and 23 in 2nd year). Of 23, about 5 are sponsored by MARA, and the others are a mix of JPA, PETRONAS, and FAMA (new) scholars.

[sour-plum]

I m a STPM student,didnt get any medical seat in local public U.So decide go for private.very confusing now..dont know which university is better for my medical degree..can anyone give me some advice or opinion?

due to financial problem,moreover wish to continue my post graduate in western country,my family only able send me to 2 university.that's is either IMU (do it 5 years locally) or university in Indonesia.i get offer letter from both university,so now i need to decide.but i cant get any conclusion because both university has their pros n cons.so can u all have me?



IMU
1. 5 years programme
2. all will be conducted in english medium
3. model to replace cadaver
4. recognised by M'sia
5. classified as private uni
6. more high technology facilities
7. due to private,less exposure to patient in clinical years
8. PBL system
9. good lectures
10.higher cost

University in Indonesia
1. 5 1/2 years programme
2. half english half indo medium (but notes will be written in eng)
3. lots of cadavers
4. recognised by M'sia
5. classified as Indo public U
6. tradisional facilities
7. due to public,there are lots of exposure to patient in clinical years
8. PBL system
9. good lectures
10.cheaper cost

PLS HELP ME~~~~i will be very grateful to u all...... :)

[cutie87]

Anybody here doing medicine in UCSI? How is the programme there? I know that this is a new course in UCSI, only started 2 years ago. Any idea on their lecturers, systems, etc.

[jingguo]

I m a STPM student,didnt get any medical seat in local public U.So decide go for private.very confusing now..dont know which university is better for my medical degree..can anyone give me some advice or opinion?

due to financial problem,moreover wish to continue my post graduate in western country,my family only able send me to 2 university.that's is either IMU (do it 5 years locally) or university in Indonesia.i get offer letter from both university,so now i need to decide.but i cant get any conclusion because both university has their pros n cons.so can u all have me?



IMU
1. 5 years programme
2. all will be conducted in english medium
3. model to replace cadaver
4. recognised by M'sia
5. classified as private uni
6. more high technology facilities
7. due to private,less exposure to patient in clinical years
8. PBL system
9. good lectures
10.higher cost

University in Indonesia
1. 5 1/2 years programme
2. half english half indo medium (but notes will be written in eng)
3. lots of cadavers
4. recognised by M'sia
5. classified as Indo public U
6. tradisional facilities
7. due to public,there are lots of exposure to patient in clinical years
8. PBL system
9. good lectures
10.cheaper cost

PLS HELP ME~~~~i will be very grateful to u all...... :)

hi,i'm currently in IMU, so i might be able to provide some insights into IMU for you..

here's a few clarifications that you need to know..
first, using models to replace cadavers would not put IMU in any spot that is of disadvantage to the students. the partner medical schools, have said that using models as part of the teaching facility have and will not undermine IMU's capability or reputation as a good medical universities, for quite anumber or the overseas unis themselves are gearing towards the use of cadavers in their teachings.
although, you have quoted IMU to have high technology facilities i'm rather in the dark of what you meant. but all in all, such techonology that you will be encountering in IMU are nothing more but just computers. you wouldnt be needing quite high tech stuff in studies.
lastly, i do agree that IMU is a private consortium, but i think the exposure to patients in clinical years would be no less than that of other public universities in malaysia. for your info, IMU students would have the chance to do postings and visit clinical hospitals right in the start of semester 2 till your clinical years. and what's more, the hospitals that you will be visiting are actually reflecting the more real patients of smaller towns rather than big hospitals in KL..
and regarding the higher cost, there are actually, funds or scholarships from various foundations that do offer financial assistance for your studies.

hope these information could help you more in your decision for choosing either uni.

[SHuLy]

can i know wat is UCAS?


Hmm...about reputation. Reputation is probably important if you're seeking for excellence in life. Oxbridge, for example, is more reputable than say, Queen Mary London. But this doesn't mean doctors from QM (Queen Mary) aren't good. They're just as good, but they have a different label. To put it bluntly, it's like Coca-cola and Tesco cola..... I believe that medical schools other than Oxbridge churn out more patient-centred doctors, as Oxbridge deprives you of your patient contact in your first three years. The only way for you to interact with patients is via the "Preparing For Patients" programme. So, there's always a drawback in any university you choose.
!

It is awfully late and delayed regarding this post.

but i would like to point out, lest there be future readers to this post, that I wouldn't use "coca-cola and tesco cola" as a comparison. first of all, the formula of ingredients used in both brands are registered and trademarked. so, it is not known to public. most people perceive "tesco cola" as the cheaper end, to those who might not be able to afford "coca cola" and thus implicating different social classes.

The name of a medical school is how an individual perceive it, and how he/she is affected (and influenced) by society.

One of the few pros of being in top notch schools are the connections that you can make for future networking, and having the opportunity to be working alongside the best, eg research involvement.

However, being in the shadows created by society doesn't exclude another's existence. There are other factors to be considered - eg teaching, lifestyle & society.

It boils down to what an individual wants. If you have a penchant to achieve, no matter where you are, you will strive to do so.
If you think that being in Oxbridge sounds good when others speak, hey, by all means, go for it! As long as it makes YOU feel good about yourself.

When you feel good, most things will fall into place.

Either that, or live with any might-be cases or regrets which may crop up!

[JROTC_pw]

I m a STPM student,didnt get any medical seat in local public U.So decide go for private.very confusing now..dont know which university is better for my medical degree..can anyone give me some advice or opinion?

due to financial problem,moreover wish to continue my post graduate in western country,my family only able send me to 2 university.that's is either IMU (do it 5 years locally) or university in Indonesia.i get offer letter from both university,so now i need to decide.but i cant get any conclusion because both university has their pros n cons.so can u all have me?



IMU
1. 5 years programme
2. all will be conducted in english medium
3. model to replace cadaver
4. recognised by M'sia
5. classified as private uni
6. more high technology facilities
7. due to private,less exposure to patient in clinical years
8. PBL system
9. good lectures
10.higher cost

University in Indonesia
1. 5 1/2 years programme
2. half english half indo medium (but notes will be written in eng)
3. lots of cadavers
4. recognised by M'sia
5. classified as Indo public U
6. tradisional facilities
7. due to public,there are lots of exposure to patient in clinical years
8. PBL system
9. good lectures
10.cheaper cost

PLS HELP ME~~~~i will be very grateful to u all...... :)


I'm a JPA scholar studying in University of Indonesia. Actually, the study programme is 6 years. In University of Indonesia, the medical faculty is divided into regular and international class.

Regular Class.
~Course fully in Indonesian Language (lectures and etc.)
~Cheaper
~Full 6 years in Indonesia

International Class
~Course fully in English (lectures and clinical years) However, you still need to learn Indonesian to communicate with the patients (the poor don't speak english).
~Compulsory Double degree program with Uni of Melbourne. (we have to go to Australia during our 4th year)
~More expensive than IMU (due to the 1 year in Australia)
~5 years in Indonesia and 1 year in MElbourne

The facilities here are slightly more traditional because our faculty building is already more than 80 years old... since the dutch colonial days... But the faculty will be shifting to the main campus in Depok (outskirts of Jakarta) in 2010 if I'm not mistaken.

The cost of living here is NOT cheap. A simple room will cost minimum Rm500 to 750 a month per person because the campus is located in the heart of the city. Food is not not cheap either... similar with KL. That will be an disadvantage.

You;ll get a lot of exposure during your clinical years because the uni is linked to their general hospital (something like HKL in Malaysia), and their national cardiac hospital (something IJN in M'sia).

I'm not here to judge which uni is better. Both have their own pros and cons. I'm just sharing the details of my uni. ^^

[duke23]

Recently there has been a lot of readers writting to editors of local newspapers suggesting that
Ukraine,Russia and indonesia(cheaper options for medical schools)are capabale of mass producing doctors who are on par if not better than the developed nations.In my opinion i think many of the readers make sweeping statements out of anger or frustration without much research/knowledge.I would like to know what recommers think.By the way ukrainian medical schools have been derecognised a few years back as they MMC has found them to be substandard.Why are people still advocating sending students to ukraine?is this suggestion based purely on the fact that its the cheapest way to obtain a MD?

[youngyew]

Just moved the last post by duke23 to an existing thread about country for medicine.