Postgraduate opportunities in the US

[thesoothsayer]

Hi boys/girls,

Just wondering if you have any advice for someone who wants to do his Phd. in the US.
Things I'm hoping to find out:
1. Recognition of Malaysian Bachelor's and Master's degrees in the US.
2. Tuition waiver and/or research/teaching assistantship available.
3. How important are the GRE results and what are the other qualifications looked at.
4. Any other advice that might be helpful.

I'll be in Hudson, Mass. this weekend and I'll be in Folsom, Ca. area next weekend. I'd appreciate if I could get in touch with some Malaysians who may be nearby and are willing to share some friendly advice.

Thanks in advance! :)

[chenchow]

thesoothsayer, I am not sure how far Hudson is from Boston, but there are a number of ReCom members over there, and also across the bridge at Cambridge... Sorry my poor geography.

There are a number of ReCom members over at LA and Stanford, Berkeley area too~!

[thesoothsayer]

Hudson's around 40 minutes from Boston.
Folsom, CA will be around 2hrs from San Francisco but almost 7hrs drive from LA.

[widagdo]

Why don't you go to Boston, instead of Hudson then?

[jiinjoo]

Hi boys/girls,
Not all of us are That Young :P

If you want to have lunch consider making a trip to the Bay Area - you'll find a bunch of us here. We have a number of Malaysians doing PhD in Stanford & Berkeley.

As to your questions, IMHO:
1. Recognition of Malaysian Bachelor's and Master's degrees in the US.
From where I am, I see quite a number of UM graduates who are in Stanford pursuing a PhD. The recognition is there, but you have to show that you're an excellent candidate, both academically and in your interest in research, and look promising to them. The barrier isn't usually your degree, but you, when compared to other candidates person to person.

2. Tuition waiver and/or research/teaching assistantship available.
Plenty. Almost all schools I know require you to teach as part of the PhD program. Almost all Malaysian PhD students here have a research assistantship of some sort. You still have to pass the qualification exams though.

3. How important are the GRE results and what are the other qualifications looked at.
I'm inclined to say don't worry about it, but I may be wrong. However, you can definitely go to the school's admission website and find statistics on the admit's GRE score distribution. Especially in the good engineering schools, English scores are only about 500 to 600, but math and analytic scores have their median = mean = full score most of the time...

4. Any other advice that might be helpful.
Get to know some actual PhD students in the states :) And if possible start sending e-mails to the professors that you would like to work with right awya to find a match in interest. You won't know what kind of magic he can cast onthe admissions office..

Good luck hunting!

1. Recognition of Malaysian Bachelor's and Master's degrees in the US.
From where I am, I see quite a number of UM graduates who are in Stanford pursuing a PhD. The recognition is there, but you have to show that you're an excellent candidate, both academically and in your interest in research, and look promising to them. The barrier isn't usually your degree, but you, when compared to other candidates person to person.

In the sciences and engineering, most top schools admit their grad students based on research potential. That being said, letters of recommendation play a crucial role in the admissions process.

If you come directly from a Malaysian university, you may be hard-pressed to find an internationally renowned professor to write your letters.

If you didn't get admitted to a direct PhD program of your choice, you can enroll in a Masters program (where admissions is mostly based on grades) in a good US university and then reapply after your Masters. This option is expensive as most Masters students are not funded.

Another cheaper option is to apply for the SMA (Singapore-MIT alliance) Masters program. This program is recognized by most top US university as an excellent Masters program. I think you can get to do research with an MIT professor for a few weeks during the immersion period too.

[chenchow]

Perhaps you could look into Malaysia University of Science and Technology (MUST) which is in collaboration with MIT. Not too sure about how good the university is, but check it out and see. There are a number of faculty from top-tier university over there and it is a research-based university. Any Malaysian that can get in for this year will get full tuition waiver.

http://www.must.edu.my/

[thesoothsayer]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. :)

Why don't you go to Boston, instead of Hudson then?

Because I'm currently on assignment in Hudson. However, I'd have no problems driving over to Boston. In fact, I like Boston a lot. :)

Not all of us are That Young :P

Oh I know we aren't physically that young. But I'm addressing the inner child in each of us. The curious part of us that seek answers to the "whys" and "hows" in life. ;)


In the sciences and engineering, most top schools admit their grad students based on research potential. That being said, letters of recommendation play a crucial role in the admissions process.

If you come directly from a Malaysian university, you may be hard-pressed to find an internationally renowned professor to write your letters.

This is the factor that I'm most worried about. I may be generalising here, but in my experience, most local professors here see R&D funding as a means to get promotion rather than having a goal of really producing something viable. Therefore, many of them do not produce any internationally recognisable research.

If you want to have lunch consider making a trip to the Bay Area - you'll find a bunch of us here. We have a number of Malaysians doing PhD in Stanford & Berkeley.

That would be great jinjoo. I'd really like to see how the research environment is in the US and get to talk first hand with some Malaysian students here. By Bay Area you mean San Francisco area, right? Sorry but I'm not that clear on the boundaries of the Bay Area. :)

And chenchow, thanks for your suggestions on MUST. Does anyone know anything about Dr. Daniel Wong Kuok-Shoong? Says on the website that he's a Stanford graduate. His research interests seem to match mine the most closely.

[jiinjoo]

That would be great jinjoo. I'd really like to see how the research environment is in the US and get to talk first hand with some Malaysian students here. By Bay Area you mean San Francisco area, right? Sorry but I'm not that clear on the boundaries of the Bay Area. :)
Bay Area is the area around the sound, north east got oakland/berkeley, north west is San Francisco, And south is bordered by San Jose. Most of southern Bay Area is Silicon Valley, if you're familiar with towns like Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Santa Clara, Cuppertino, Palo Alto, Redwood City and of course, Stanford! (in the middle) I'll ask around about Dr. Wong for you.

How does Penang Village on San Jose or Banana Leaf of Milpitas sound? :)

[thesoothsayer]

How does Penang Village on San Jose or Banana Leaf of Milpitas sound? :)

Sounds good to me. However, I hope my "driver" will be familiar with the place. :)

[chenghau]

Hi,

It is great to hear that you are around Boston. :)

[thesoothsayer]

Boston is definitely a nice city. The roads are a little confusing and drivers are a little aggressive but hey, it reminds me of home. ;)

Are you in the Boston area as well?

[chenchow]

thesoothsayer, chenghau is in MIT. Perhaps you could contact him and meet up.

[bt3on9]

I would like to add and paraphrase some questions. Unless otherwise stated, my questions are directly referring to engineering courses, especially CS. Therefore, I hope you, who have the exposure in the States, would answer my questions pertaining to CS alone. Nevertheless, general comments beyond CS are most welcome and expected too.

JiinJoo, you were mentioning that there are quite a number of UM graduates pursuing their PhDs in Stanford. My questions regarding this are as follow:

1. Generally, where did they do their Masters? In Malaysia or the States or elsewhere? What kind of researches they are doing?
2. How would the chances look like for a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder to apply to study a Master program in the States, especially in a university like Stanford? What do you think of the proportion/weightage of each of the requirement, namely, the bachelor's degree, the research interest and the GRE's score to evaluate a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder?
3. Based on your experience and knowledge, what would you advise, say, a Stanford's wannabe to study Master or even PhD, from Malaysia, to prepare, to do, to study, to think, to prioritize to place himself/herself in a better position to get admitted? How about the time and effort needed to do all these? What kind of research interests in CS that would look potentially promising?

Pince was also mentioning the crucial role of letters of recommendation in the admission process. My question is:

4. Where did the mentioned UM graduates obtain their letters of recommendation, which upon summing up together with their relevant scores and interests, resulted in their admittance? What kind of people in Malaysia to seek for to get comprehensive letters of recommendation?

I am not directing my questions solely to JiinJoo or Prince, by the way. I hope to get responses from everyone reading this thread if you have anything to share and advise.

Finally, my comments regarding Malaysia University of Science and Technology (MUST) as mentioned by ChenChow. I am very skeptical of it although I have not personally see it from various persepctives, be its syllabus or credentials, for myself. As a 100% Malaysian-educated, I would say I am very disappointed with the Malaysian education system from the bottom till the top in tertiary education. Malaysian public universities, even UM let me down over the past 3 years when I was studying CS there.

In short, if I have the chance to turn back time, I would not have even considered studying in a local public university. Down the line, I felt and I am still feeling that I have wasted my time and most importantly my talent and capabilities. I know I could have become a more holistic and well-equipped person if I were educated in a better university, where I could churn out and utilise my knowledge and talent.

To me, if I want to continue to further my study, I would definitely choose not to do it in Malaysia. There is no point to get a Master here as it will never make you more competitive or any better than undergraduates. I dare to say, one will get more research knowledge and experience through working than studying Master here.

[chenchow]

To bt3on9's question
1. Generally, where did they do their Masters? In Malaysia or the States or elsewhere? What kind of researches they are doing?

Generally PhD in US means post graduates, basically a program of 4 to 6 years typically that goes from post-undergraduates till PhD. In those 4 to 6 years, you would get M.S or other related degree.
Typically, this kind of PhD is pretty research-oriented. There are also those Master that are 1-year or so, that are basically more course-related, which typically leads towards further employment in industry.

2. How would the chances look like for a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder to apply to study a Master program in the States, especially in a university like Stanford? What do you think of the proportion/weightage of each of the requirement, namely, the bachelor's degree, the research interest and the GRE's score to evaluate a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder?

I would say that among the main weightage would be your research interest, if you are looking at PhD. ReCommendation letters are important. My replies are in later section. The courses that you take in your bachelor's degree matters too. It will showcase your interest, although I understand that in IPTA, you don't have as much choices. Application essays are essential too, if there are. It provides you with opportunities to showcase yourself, especially beyond those that are written in the transcripts. GRE is not really that important. Just try your best and get a decent score.

4. Where did the mentioned UM graduates obtain their letters of recommendation, which upon summing up together with their relevant scores and interests, resulted in their admittance? What kind of people in Malaysia to seek for to get comprehensive letters of recommendation?
Getting some good recommendation letters will be pretty essential. Basically get those who know you very well. It will be great if it is some Professors/industry people that you have worked closely with in your pursuit of your interest. If you can get any renowned people to write for you and they know you well, it will be great. Typically, the person that writes for you must have worked with you in this aspect, to really give you an edge.

Guess you would have found out about this, but if not, this is the Stanford course description for Computer Science
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/registrar/bulletin/pdf/CompSci.pdf

[morpheous]

morpheous too like bt3on9 would like to know the answers to the questions posed below to jin joo's "UM phd students in stanford".


1. Generally, where did they do their Masters? In Malaysia or the States or elsewhere? What kind of researches they are doing?
2. How would the chances look like for a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder to apply to study a Master program in the States, especially in a university like Stanford? What do you think of the proportion/weightage of each of the requirement, namely, the bachelor's degree, the research interest and the GRE's score to evaluate a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder?
3. Based on your experience and knowledge, what would you advise, say, a Stanford's wannabe to study Master or even PhD, from Malaysia, to prepare, to do, to study, to think, to prioritize to place himself/herself in a better position to get admitted? How about the time and effort needed to do all these? What kind of research interests in CS that would look potentially promising?
4. Where did the mentioned UM graduates obtain their letters of recommendation, which upon summing up together with their relevant scores and interests, resulted in their admittance? What kind of people in Malaysia to seek for to get comprehensive letters of recommendation?

what say you,jinjoo?care to enlighten us..? :idea:

[jiinjoo]

Sorry morpheous, I was off for a while - took sometime to come back to my senses and stay online more often. It isn't everyday that one graduates you know :)


1. Generally, where did they do their Masters? In Malaysia or the States or elsewhere? What kind of researches they are doing?
I was just referring my friends, i.e. people that I know. So "generally" (as a interpolation from the data points that I can gather), they don't do their masters coz they come here with the intent to do research. Those who come here to do their masters usually do not intend to do much research, rather, they use it as an excuse to come work here.

(F-1 visa entitles them 12 months to find a job after graduation, and usually in 12months time you'll getyour H1B to work for 3 years, and usually extend another 3 years to make a total of 6 years, after which they will decide to stay here forever or go home with all the money they made.)

Unless required by the university that you finish a masters degree before entering a PhD program, people usually just skip it. PhD is long enough (usually 5 to 6 years in US)...


2. How would the chances look like for a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder to apply to study a Master program in the States, especially in a university like Stanford? What do you think of the proportion/weightage of each of the requirement, namely, the bachelor's degree, the research interest and the GRE's score to evaluate a Malaysian Bachelor's degree holder?
Chances are slim, nothing has changed :) Naturally, if you come to the states for an undergrad your chances of getting into a masters/phd program increases slightly. The US universities are usually looking for a very balanced performance in academic and co-curricular performance. Most of it is reflected in personal statements and essays that you write as well as your CV/resume. Research interest is more important for masters/phd program than undergrad (again, naturally) but it does shows your cause and goal in life if you write that interest in your resume. Most importantly, most schools are looking for diversity and if you have some special talent you should definitely make it known. Finally, GRE scores are always a part of the picture, and varies from department to department, university to university.


3. Based on your experience and knowledge, what would you advise, say, a Stanford's wannabe to study Master or even PhD, from Malaysia, to prepare, to do, to study, to think, to prioritize to place himself/herself in a better position to get admitted? How about the time and effort needed to do all these? What kind of research interests in CS that would look potentially promising?
Let me ask you a question - what do you want to do in life? Do you have something burning that you want to find out or you want to do? Some technical problem that you want to solve? Some social change you want to see happen? Some people you want to meet and exchange ideas?

There is no single thing that will make you THE candidate that a school will admit you. If you stand at the pessimistic side of the picture, and that you've done your best in studies (in terms of grades), activities, personal development, and even go beyond what's required in school, then it is pretty much luck - there is no magic bullet (there's one - pay them a lot of money - which most of us probably don't have) to get into a top US university.

Why don't we talk about your interest in CS? What makes you want to do CS anyway? If you've done some CS courses before or if you're a CS major, what is "the thing" that keeps you awake at night?


As a 100% Malaysian-educated, I would say I am very disappointed with the Malaysian education system from the bottom till the top in tertiary education. Malaysian public universities, even UM let me down over the past 3 years when I was studying CS there.
I'm in constant contact with a small number of CS students currently in UM/MMU/UTM (my high school friends). From 10000 miles away, my conclusion is this: the education is as good as you make it to be. If you're thinking that an education here will spoonfeed you better, forget it - the best spoon feeding can be found downsouth on the sunny island of S'pore. I think the difference here in some of the US top schools and back home is the student composition - there's so much energy going around - people always curious to learn, students always getting together to do something, to make something new etc.

So what I always tell my friends in UM is - don't stop where your lecturers stop. You're lucky because most of what an undergraduate CS degree teaches can be found online. You're blessed with a wealth of information from other university's websites, including some from the very best (e.g. refer to recom's education links for the free materials like those from MIT). When you need to find something, just google. We exchange ideas and sometimes they will just go off taking some of our conclusions and what they learn in class and extend their knowledge and complete a small project for himself. It's not homework, but there's a lot of satisfaction gained. Moreover, university admissions do look at small little things like these too.


In short, if I have the chance to turn back time, I would not have even considered studying in a local public university. Down the line, I felt and I am still feeling that I have wasted my time and most importantly my talent and capabilities. I know I could have become a more holistic and well-equipped person if I were educated in a better university, where I could churn out and utilise my knowledge and talent.
"Yau Zhou Zi, Mou Hak Yi" (Beggars don't exist if you could have known). Moreover, you probably haven't been studying overseas to make the comparison - and trust me not everybody can handle the education/lifestyle in US. If you really treasure what you have, you should go on and develop it, instead of blaming it on the education you had. If you don't like local education, find a way to go somewhere. You don't need teachers to make you "holistic" and "well-equipped". You equip yourself and you read up whatever makes you holistic. Let me tell you that reading many of our good discussions here is one of the many things you can do to gain more knowledge.


To me, if I want to continue to further my study, I would definitely choose not to do it in Malaysia. There is no point to get a Master here as it will never make you more competitive or any better than undergraduates. I dare to say, one will get more research knowledge and experience through working than studying Master here.
Fair enough. Go somewhere then. There are cheaper alternatives if money is the problem. When there's a will there's a way. If you don't have money now, why don't you join the workforce and save up some money first? Constantly look out for opportunities and don't give up the fight to go where your heart longs to go.

[minishorts]

It's now September so this response is going to come pretty late... and it probably won't be of any usable value to bt3on9 at all, but this thread has been rather intriguing to me, in particular...

To me, if I want to continue to further my study, I would definitely choose not to do it in Malaysia. There is no point to get a Master here as it will never make you more competitive or any better than undergraduates. I dare to say, one will get more research knowledge and experience through working than studying Master here.

Is that hostility I sense in there?

Being a 100% Malaysian product myself I must say this, experience is defined by yourself, and you alone decide how you make the best out of what you have. While in the past, as a younger undergraduate I've lamented my (then) 'misfortune' of not having the opportunity to experience an international education, recent years have seen a change in views.

I'm not doubting the fact that having an internationally recognized degree fr Ivy League Universities or OxBridge gives you that edge and extraordinary experience-of-a-lifetime... but surely definitions of good vs bad lie within the eyes of the beholder still.

Growing up around friends from local universities who never stop complaining about their so-called poverty and inability to realize dreams sometimes makes me sick. And you know, this sort of pessimistic negativity eats into you like a disease and many times I've been swayed by peer pressure into long arguments with my parents who refuse to let me out of their side. In my family, an overseas education is not a problem-my parents' problem was seeing their only child leave them to go away for many years at a go.

I'm at UM now, pursuing my postgraduate degree, and I've yet to feel handicapped. Along with me I have coursemates who possess bachelor's degrees from internationally renowned institutions from the US, UK and Australia. In essence we are equal, and I am not weaker than them, and I've never felt intimidated, nor slighted. At work, I am head and shoulders above my fellow colleagues; in my team, there are four of us, a UK graduated lawyer, a UK English literature graduate and an Australian mass communications graduate. And yet my employers have had the faith to place the biggest and most marketable market sector under me, and where more complex titles are placed under my charge (I'm an editor, btw).

It all bowls down to this simple attitude that one should always carry along, 'You are what you make of yourself.'

[wyeoh]

I presume you are applying for intake next Fall, which puts the deadline earliest sometime this December. Hopefully this doesn't reach you too late then. :)

minishorts & jiinjoo definitely puts everything in perspective. Don't apply for the sake of getting out of the Malaysian educational system. Don't apply (especially for a PhD) for the sake of going abroad. The 5 years you spend sulking in the lab, or lamenting why the weather is horrible will get you no where. You would waste your time, the money spent on you, your advisor's time and your colleague's.

I especially like the part when jiinjoo asks for the purpose of your pursuit for a PhD. If there isn't a passion you have in your field... no drive to get something working, or to solve a problem... and the only reason is simply because you believe a PhD is something you should get, and you can get it... I would definitely not recommend you pursue this course of action. Without strong self motivation, you will most likely not only not get something beneficial out of it, you will not enjoy the journey either.

Personally, a PhD is not a stepping stone to better job, but instead a more restricting one. Your career options are severely limited after that. In my opinion, you can only go into two fields...one, the educational field. Be a professor, research to your heart's content in your field of interest, and make all your graduate students' life miserable. :) Or, to go into R&D in a preferably decent company. As you may have realized, both fields are rather competitive. You would be overqualified to do anything else. If this is what you want to do with the rest of your life, then by all means go ahead. But think hard before you make that decision.

Good luck in your pursuit.